Guild Wars 2

alchemyst.2165:

This may be the funniest thread I’ve seen in a while. The thief nerf threads are back, guys, just like we knew it would happen because some autoattacks got buffed lol.

Seriously, theres not a problem with a thief having some sustained damage to use when they’re out of initiative. Again, there are higher AA’s on other classes, go complain on their forums.

Show us the OP autoattacks of other professions, please.

Keep in mind that when you’re deciding which ones are OP, that other classes do not have backstab burst damage which counts toward total DPS. Thief auto should be the weakest auto in the game to allow for thief burst to be the highest in the game. That is balance.

Orion.3812:

alchemyst.2165:

This may be the funniest thread I’ve seen in a while. The thief nerf threads are back, guys, just like we knew it would happen because some autoattacks got buffed lol.

Seriously, theres not a problem with a thief having some sustained damage to use when they’re out of initiative. Again, there are higher AA’s on other classes, go complain on their forums.

Show us the OP autoattacks of other professions, please.

Keep in mind that when you’re deciding which ones are OP, that other classes do not have backstab burst damage which counts toward total DPS. Thief auto should be the weakest auto in the game to allow for thief burst to be the highest in the game. That is balance.

Yeah bro, 4k PvP backstab much burst. And I say PvP because this game is balanced on that game mode. If thief auto should be worst in game, I’d like 10k backstab on 3k armor targets.

Thief burst highest in game LOL I’ve been hit harder by passive pet attacks, mauls, shatters, CoR, unrelenting assault, DH traps, Gunflame, Trueshot, passive traited spinal shivers, you name it. Sometimes ACCIDENTALLY.

BTW, you play a profession with possible 5k autos from the south pole with Longbow. But yeah melee autos where I’m actually in the fight should be weaker, mhm.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Yeah bro, 4k PvP backstab much burst. And I say PvP because this game is balanced on that game mode. If thief auto should be worst in game, I’d like 10k backstab on 3k armor targets.

Thief burst highest in game LOL I’ve been hit harder by passive pet attacks, mauls, shatters, CoR, unrelenting assault, DH traps, Gunflame, Trueshot, passive traited spinal shivers, you name it. Sometimes ACCIDENTALLY.

BTW, you play a profession with possible 5k autos from the south pole with Longbow. But yeah melee autos where I’m actually in the fight should be weaker, mhm.

Sure, a single 5k auto in WvW when buffed with a 30 sec cooldown against a target with no armor. You’re not going to see that number in sPvP. You’ve made it abundantly clear that you do not understand basic game mechanics and the only investment that you have in this conversation is to ensure that your class deals so much damage that there is no relevant counter.

Is thief auto the only overbuffed thing in the game right now? No. But this isn’t a thread to discuss every problem the game has. This is a thread is about thief auto-attack vs player health pools, and right now thief auto-attack is not only too strong, buffing it failed to address thief’s group utility in PvE.

If thief gave a 5% damage buff to everyone else in a raid, that’s effectively the same as 50% extra DPS from a single player. So to make thief comparable to other classes that bring a 10%-ish 5-man buff, thief would have to deal 50% more damage than every other class that can bring group support instead.

Does having one class deal 50% more damage than everyone else sound balanced to you? Buffing thief personal damage is absolutely not the right answer to PvE.

It was the right answer to PvE. Unless you want to argue the thief should be offering competitive support on top of its already-high damage potential, which is just ludicrous.

The issue is that the fixes needed for PvE are not the same ones as PvP until offensive stats stop being so horrible in sPvP, and that thief issues in PvP stem from limited trait choices due to vastly superior options (especially with Daredevil) and weapon sets which do not perform well compared to others/other classes.

And .5s will determine the outcome of a fight depending on the matchup.

DeceiverX.8361:

It was the right answer to PvE. Unless you want to argue the thief should be offering competitive support on top of its already-high damage potential, which is just ludicrous.

The issue is that the fixes needed for PvE are not the same ones as PvP until offensive stats stop being so horrible in sPvP, and that thief issues in PvP stem from limited trait choices due to vastly superior options (especially with Daredevil) and weapon sets which do not perform well compared to others/other classes.

And .5s will determine the outcome of a fight depending on the matchup.

There are two kinds of support: offensive and defensive. Heal/cleanse your allies, or boost their damage numbers.

The only significant group support that thief brings to the table presently is stealth, which is a buff that is not unique to thief and has little relevance in group PvE unless you’re skipping trash or covering a downed ally. They can also provide group healing through regen, through clunky mechanics and enormous loss to personal DPS.

In order to be competitive with other professions in PvE, either thief needs more group support ability in the offensive category (group damage buff) or they need so much personal damage that they can make up for not having a multiplier for 5 people.

In the name of PvE balance, would you like thieves to automatically win every PvP encounter by breathing on their opponent, or would you like them to have the option to bring a group damage buff? One of these things has to happen. Right now, the game’s leaning toward that first option and it’s a problem.

Every video showing dps with thieves compared to other classes does not show anywhere close to a 50% dps increase over other classes they show roughly the same dps numbers minus Chronomancer since they bring the lowest personal dps to raids and only have a spot for buffing the entire raids dps when played right . Thieves have never brought group utility besides stealth and trying to shoe horn group utility is a horrible design.

Thieves don’t even come close to winning every pvp encounter. And it’s not going that way the AA increase is negligible in pvp and in WvW the sustain every other class brings more sustain to outlast any " burst" thieves have.

Thieves are viable in raids yes because now it’s not beneficial to stack multiple Revs for their AA damage on top of their group support. Thieves have always been a selfish class when it comes to group play, but that is normally how every thief/rogue/assassin archetype in every game is they provide great single target dps at loss of survivability and group utility.

In pvp if thieves offered their team 5% damage increase just by being nearby the thief would be nerfed almost instantly due to all the QQ.

perma full might stack, protection, retalation, fury. 20+k HP. 2300 Armor.

Well, I’m still sure OP is either really bad player itself or is playing wrong build. In both cases this is his own problem =(

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Every video showing dps with thieves compared to other classes does not show anywhere close to a 50% dps increase over other classes they show roughly the same dps numbers minus Chronomancer since they bring the lowest personal dps to raids and only have a spot for buffing the entire raids dps when played right . Thieves have never brought group utility besides stealth and trying to shoe horn group utility is a horrible design.

Thieves don’t even come close to winning every pvp encounter. And it’s not going that way the AA increase is negligible in pvp and in WvW the sustain every other class brings more sustain to outlast any " burst" thieves have.

Thieves are viable in raids yes because now it’s not beneficial to stack multiple Revs for their AA damage on top of their group support. Thieves have always been a selfish class when it comes to group play, but that is normally how every thief/rogue/assassin archetype in every game is they provide great single target dps at loss of survivability and group utility.

In pvp if thieves offered their team 5% damage increase just by being nearby the thief would be nerfed almost instantly due to all the QQ.

You’ve not read the whole thread, but it’s long and that’s understandable. I will explain again.

My 5% damage buff suggestion is single-target only, done as a non-stacking debuff applied (and removed) with thief application of vulnerability, tied to a trait that is never brought to PvP because it would compete with Panic Strike.

This targeted damage increase is common to the thief/assassin archetype in other games. See Expose Armor (Rogue skill) from World of Warcraft, or Trick Attack (Ninja skill) from FFXIV. They are the exact same kind of concept.

Lastly, I didn’t make the claim that thief deals 50% more damage than everyone else right now, but that buffing autoattack is heading in that direction for the sake of PvE balance. My claim is that in order to justify taking a thief over another class that brings a 10% damage boost for a party of 5 is that the thief would have to do 50% more personal damage than the other class to make up for that. I’m using that to show that personal damage can never be a substitute for the group damage buffs available in this game without creating a problem in PvP/WvW caused by the overbuffed personal damage.

fumcheg.1936:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBW9rj4GJzw

perma full might stack, protection, retalation, fury. 20+k HP. 2300 Armor.

Well, I’m still sure OP is either really bad player itself or is playing wrong build. In both cases this is his own problem =(

Toxic bullkitten, again. You cannot invalidate my argument by making a completely different, unrelated and false argument about my personal skill level.

The all antire thread is about your personal skill lvl

fumcheg.1936:

The all antire thread is about your personal skill lvl

No, it’s becoming about people like you that can’t see past the fact that I happen to sometimes play a ranger. Intellectually, you lack so much vision that I doubt you can properly understand anything past the end of your nose.

You’ve not addressed the argument or provided any reasoning in the context of thief autoattack damage buffs.

Orion.3812:

fumcheg.1936:

The all antire thread is about your personal skill lvl

No, it’s becoming about people like you that can’t see past the fact that I happen to sometimes play a ranger. Intellectually, you lack so much vision that I doubt you can properly understand anything past the end of your nose.

You’ve not addressed the argument or provided any reasoning in the context of thief autoattack damage buffs.

Yeah yeah we’re all bad, we’re all wrong, you’re right, you’re good.

Many of us have addressed the reasoning of autoattack buff. You just hate that thieves aren’t fodder anymore.

I play Mesmer, Scrapper and revenant. Thief is still easily the weakest out of all 4 in nearly every situation from my 3k+ hours of playing, at least 2k which are on thief.

Don’t sit in melee auto. L2P.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

fumcheg.1936:

The all antire thread is about your personal skill lvl

No, it’s becoming about people like you that can’t see past the fact that I happen to sometimes play a ranger. Intellectually, you lack so much vision that I doubt you can properly understand anything past the end of your nose.

You’ve not addressed the argument or provided any reasoning in the context of thief autoattack damage buffs.

Yeah yeah we’re all bad, we’re all wrong, you’re right, you’re good.

Many of us have addressed the reasoning of autoattack buff. You just hate that thieves aren’t fodder anymore.

I play Mesmer, Scrapper and revenant. Thief is still easily the weakest out of all 4 in nearly every situation from my 3k+ hours of playing, at least 2k which are on thief.

Don’t sit in melee auto. L2P.

I made no personal claims about my own skill level save to defend myself from baseless accusations. You and those that are responding like you are the ones who brought personal skill into any of this.

You in particular have provided a grand total of one argument: no matter how powerful thief autoattack gets, just never get hit by it and you’re fine! You can just walk away by strafing and there’s no possible way the thief could ever have a chance of hitting you!

Thief could be dealing 99k damage per swing with autoattack and you could make the same argument if that were true. People would be justifiably upset that they died instantly when a thief so much as looked their direction, but you’d still be here saying that you can “walk away” if you stuck to your guns.

The reasoning of your argument is ludicrous, whether you are successful or not in PvP.

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

fumcheg.1936:

The all antire thread is about your personal skill lvl

No, it’s becoming about people like you that can’t see past the fact that I happen to sometimes play a ranger. Intellectually, you lack so much vision that I doubt you can properly understand anything past the end of your nose.

You’ve not addressed the argument or provided any reasoning in the context of thief autoattack damage buffs.

Yeah yeah we’re all bad, we’re all wrong, you’re right, you’re good.

Many of us have addressed the reasoning of autoattack buff. You just hate that thieves aren’t fodder anymore.

I play Mesmer, Scrapper and revenant. Thief is still easily the weakest out of all 4 in nearly every situation from my 3k+ hours of playing, at least 2k which are on thief.

Don’t sit in melee auto. L2P.

I made no personal claims about my own skill level save to defend myself from baseless accusations. You and those that are responding like you are the ones who brought personal skill into any of this.

You in particular have provided a grand total of one argument: no matter how powerful thief autoattack gets, just never get hit by it and you’re fine! You can just walk away by strafing and there’s no possible way the thief could ever have a chance of hitting you!

Thief could be dealing 99k damage per swing with autoattack and you could make the same argument if that were true. People would be justifiably upset that they died instantly when a thief so much as looked their direction, but you’d still be here saying that you can “walk away” if you stuck to your guns.

The reasoning of your argument is ludicrous, whether you are successful or not in PvP.

And you’re whining about a 1k average increase to AA chain. My argument with walking away is that AA is SUSTAINED damage. Not BURST. You have plenty of time to react before significant damage.

If you let a thief stick on you and SUSTAIN melee damage on you because you didn’t react, that’s on you. Remember, you’re whining about 1k every 3 seconds in melee range, 3 seconds in which a thief can’t do anything defensive.

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

fumcheg.1936:

The all antire thread is about your personal skill lvl

No, it’s becoming about people like you that can’t see past the fact that I happen to sometimes play a ranger. Intellectually, you lack so much vision that I doubt you can properly understand anything past the end of your nose.

You’ve not addressed the argument or provided any reasoning in the context of thief autoattack damage buffs.

Yeah yeah we’re all bad, we’re all wrong, you’re right, you’re good.

Many of us have addressed the reasoning of autoattack buff. You just hate that thieves aren’t fodder anymore.

I play Mesmer, Scrapper and revenant. Thief is still easily the weakest out of all 4 in nearly every situation from my 3k+ hours of playing, at least 2k which are on thief.

Don’t sit in melee auto. L2P.

I made no personal claims about my own skill level save to defend myself from baseless accusations. You and those that are responding like you are the ones who brought personal skill into any of this.

You in particular have provided a grand total of one argument: no matter how powerful thief autoattack gets, just never get hit by it and you’re fine! You can just walk away by strafing and there’s no possible way the thief could ever have a chance of hitting you!

Thief could be dealing 99k damage per swing with autoattack and you could make the same argument if that were true. People would be justifiably upset that they died instantly when a thief so much as looked their direction, but you’d still be here saying that you can “walk away” if you stuck to your guns.

The reasoning of your argument is ludicrous, whether you are successful or not in PvP.

And you’re whining about a 1k average increase to AA chain. My argument with walking away is that AA is SUSTAINED damage. Not BURST. You have plenty of time to react before significant damage.

If you let a thief stick on you and SUSTAIN melee damage on you because you didn’t react, that’s on you. Remember, you’re whining about 1k every 3 seconds in melee range, 3 seconds in which a thief can’t do anything defensive.

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

fumcheg.1936:

The all antire thread is about your personal skill lvl

No, it’s becoming about people like you that can’t see past the fact that I happen to sometimes play a ranger. Intellectually, you lack so much vision that I doubt you can properly understand anything past the end of your nose.

You’ve not addressed the argument or provided any reasoning in the context of thief autoattack damage buffs.

Yeah yeah we’re all bad, we’re all wrong, you’re right, you’re good.

Many of us have addressed the reasoning of autoattack buff. You just hate that thieves aren’t fodder anymore.

I play Mesmer, Scrapper and revenant. Thief is still easily the weakest out of all 4 in nearly every situation from my 3k+ hours of playing, at least 2k which are on thief.

Don’t sit in melee auto. L2P.

I made no personal claims about my own skill level save to defend myself from baseless accusations. You and those that are responding like you are the ones who brought personal skill into any of this.

You in particular have provided a grand total of one argument: no matter how powerful thief autoattack gets, just never get hit by it and you’re fine! You can just walk away by strafing and there’s no possible way the thief could ever have a chance of hitting you!

Thief could be dealing 99k damage per swing with autoattack and you could make the same argument if that were true. People would be justifiably upset that they died instantly when a thief so much as looked their direction, but you’d still be here saying that you can “walk away” if you stuck to your guns.

The reasoning of your argument is ludicrous, whether you are successful or not in PvP.

And you’re whining about a 1k average increase to AA chain. My argument with walking away is that AA is SUSTAINED damage. Not BURST. You have plenty of time to react before significant damage.

If you let a thief stick on you and SUSTAIN melee damage on you because you didn’t react, that’s on you. Remember, you’re whining about 1k every 3 seconds in melee range, 3 seconds in which a thief can’t do anything defensive.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

fumcheg.1936:

The all antire thread is about your personal skill lvl

No, it’s becoming about people like you that can’t see past the fact that I happen to sometimes play a ranger. Intellectually, you lack so much vision that I doubt you can properly understand anything past the end of your nose.

You’ve not addressed the argument or provided any reasoning in the context of thief autoattack damage buffs.

Yeah yeah we’re all bad, we’re all wrong, you’re right, you’re good.

Many of us have addressed the reasoning of autoattack buff. You just hate that thieves aren’t fodder anymore.

I play Mesmer, Scrapper and revenant. Thief is still easily the weakest out of all 4 in nearly every situation from my 3k+ hours of playing, at least 2k which are on thief.

Don’t sit in melee auto. L2P.

I made no personal claims about my own skill level save to defend myself from baseless accusations. You and those that are responding like you are the ones who brought personal skill into any of this.

You in particular have provided a grand total of one argument: no matter how powerful thief autoattack gets, just never get hit by it and you’re fine! You can just walk away by strafing and there’s no possible way the thief could ever have a chance of hitting you!

Thief could be dealing 99k damage per swing with autoattack and you could make the same argument if that were true. People would be justifiably upset that they died instantly when a thief so much as looked their direction, but you’d still be here saying that you can “walk away” if you stuck to your guns.

The reasoning of your argument is ludicrous, whether you are successful or not in PvP.

And you’re whining about a 1k average increase to AA chain. My argument with walking away is that AA is SUSTAINED damage. Not BURST. You have plenty of time to react before significant damage.

If you let a thief stick on you and SUSTAIN melee damage on you because you didn’t react, that’s on you. Remember, you’re whining about 1k every 3 seconds in melee range, 3 seconds in which a thief can’t do anything defensive.

An increase to autoattack is an increase to thief burst as well as sustain. The difference between it taking two hits or three from the AA after backstab to down someone is win or lose. There’s an enormous difference between “low hp with heal skill available” and “downed”. The autoattack buff pushed thief damage over that threshold in many situations.

Whether or not a thief can do something defensive during autoattack is irrelevant when the next autoattack that lands will end the fight. A good thief will cover the auto with a blind anyway.

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

fumcheg.1936:

The all antire thread is about your personal skill lvl

No, it’s becoming about people like you that can’t see past the fact that I happen to sometimes play a ranger. Intellectually, you lack so much vision that I doubt you can properly understand anything past the end of your nose.

You’ve not addressed the argument or provided any reasoning in the context of thief autoattack damage buffs.

Yeah yeah we’re all bad, we’re all wrong, you’re right, you’re good.

Many of us have addressed the reasoning of autoattack buff. You just hate that thieves aren’t fodder anymore.

I play Mesmer, Scrapper and revenant. Thief is still easily the weakest out of all 4 in nearly every situation from my 3k+ hours of playing, at least 2k which are on thief.

Don’t sit in melee auto. L2P.

I made no personal claims about my own skill level save to defend myself from baseless accusations. You and those that are responding like you are the ones who brought personal skill into any of this.

You in particular have provided a grand total of one argument: no matter how powerful thief autoattack gets, just never get hit by it and you’re fine! You can just walk away by strafing and there’s no possible way the thief could ever have a chance of hitting you!

Thief could be dealing 99k damage per swing with autoattack and you could make the same argument if that were true. People would be justifiably upset that they died instantly when a thief so much as looked their direction, but you’d still be here saying that you can “walk away” if you stuck to your guns.

The reasoning of your argument is ludicrous, whether you are successful or not in PvP.

And you’re whining about a 1k average increase to AA chain. My argument with walking away is that AA is SUSTAINED damage. Not BURST. You have plenty of time to react before significant damage.

If you let a thief stick on you and SUSTAIN melee damage on you because you didn’t react, that’s on you. Remember, you’re whining about 1k every 3 seconds in melee range, 3 seconds in which a thief can’t do anything defensive.

An increase to autoattack is an increase to thief burst as well as sustain. The difference between it taking two hits or three from the AA after backstab to down someone is win or lose. There’s an enormous difference between “low hp with heal skill available” and “downed”. The autoattack buff pushed thief damage over that threshold in many situations.

Whether or not a thief can do something defensive during autoattack is irrelevant when the next autoattack that lands will end the fight. A good thief will cover the auto with a blind anyway.

4k AA chain over 3 seconds is burst now wtf?

Idk why you don’t understand that thief cannot rely solely on stealth attacks and initiative consuming skills for damage anymore. We have a global CD that affects our weapon sets equally no matter if we swap. Prepatch every class would laugh in my face as I would hit 1k AAs that crit. If that extra 1k every 3 seconds in melee is downing you that many times, idk what to say.

Source: thief main that has almost zero problems with thieves on core Mesmer.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

fumcheg.1936:

The all antire thread is about your personal skill lvl

No, it’s becoming about people like you that can’t see past the fact that I happen to sometimes play a ranger. Intellectually, you lack so much vision that I doubt you can properly understand anything past the end of your nose.

You’ve not addressed the argument or provided any reasoning in the context of thief autoattack damage buffs.

Yeah yeah we’re all bad, we’re all wrong, you’re right, you’re good.

Many of us have addressed the reasoning of autoattack buff. You just hate that thieves aren’t fodder anymore.

I play Mesmer, Scrapper and revenant. Thief is still easily the weakest out of all 4 in nearly every situation from my 3k+ hours of playing, at least 2k which are on thief.

Don’t sit in melee auto. L2P.

I made no personal claims about my own skill level save to defend myself from baseless accusations. You and those that are responding like you are the ones who brought personal skill into any of this.

You in particular have provided a grand total of one argument: no matter how powerful thief autoattack gets, just never get hit by it and you’re fine! You can just walk away by strafing and there’s no possible way the thief could ever have a chance of hitting you!

Thief could be dealing 99k damage per swing with autoattack and you could make the same argument if that were true. People would be justifiably upset that they died instantly when a thief so much as looked their direction, but you’d still be here saying that you can “walk away” if you stuck to your guns.

The reasoning of your argument is ludicrous, whether you are successful or not in PvP.

And you’re whining about a 1k average increase to AA chain. My argument with walking away is that AA is SUSTAINED damage. Not BURST. You have plenty of time to react before significant damage.

If you let a thief stick on you and SUSTAIN melee damage on you because you didn’t react, that’s on you. Remember, you’re whining about 1k every 3 seconds in melee range, 3 seconds in which a thief can’t do anything defensive.

An increase to autoattack is an increase to thief burst as well as sustain. The difference between it taking two hits or three from the AA after backstab to down someone is win or lose. There’s an enormous difference between “low hp with heal skill available” and “downed”. The autoattack buff pushed thief damage over that threshold in many situations.

Whether or not a thief can do something defensive during autoattack is irrelevant when the next autoattack that lands will end the fight. A good thief will cover the auto with a blind anyway.

4k AA chain over 3 seconds is burst now wtf?

Idk why you don’t understand that thief cannot rely solely on stealth attacks and initiative consuming skills for damage anymore. We have a global CD that affects our weapon sets equally no matter if we swap. Prepatch every class would laugh in my face as I would hit 1k AAs that crit. If that extra 1k every 3 seconds in melee is downing you that many times, idk what to say.

Source: thief main that has almost zero problems with thieves on core Mesmer.

Why can’t a thief rely on initiative consuming skills for damage now, when they clearly could in the past?

Orion.3812:

Why can’t a thief rely on initiative consuming skills for damage now, when they clearly could in the past?

When did you start to play, after June?

Orion.3812:

alchemyst.2165:

This may be the funniest thread I’ve seen in a while. The thief nerf threads are back, guys, just like we knew it would happen because some autoattacks got buffed lol.

Seriously, theres not a problem with a thief having some sustained damage to use when they’re out of initiative. Again, there are higher AA’s on other classes, go complain on their forums.

Show us the OP autoattacks of other professions, please.

Keep in mind that when you’re deciding which ones are OP, that other classes do not have backstab burst damage which counts toward total DPS. Thief auto should be the weakest auto in the game to allow for thief burst to be the highest in the game. That is balance.

I already stated how necro dagger AA was already higher than thief’s. Yet you ignored it of course.

And backstab burst? Other classes do not have backstab burst?

Lol you’re right. Other classes have more and better burst options than a short range, mediocre burst attack that requires stealth and can be prevented by literally pressing a button or kiting away.

Jana.6831:

Orion.3812:

Why can’t a thief rely on initiative consuming skills for damage now, when they clearly could in the past?

When did you start to play, after June?

I’ve been playing since launch day, and thief is one of my oldest characters. Thief sustained damage has always been high and derived from a combination of initiative regeneration and timely skill use, allowing the lead attacks trait to maximize your damage by spending only enough initiative so as not to waste your regen.

Cloak/Backstab, Pistol Whip, Cluster Bomb, Heartseeker… these are the thief’s sustained damage abilities, not auto-attack which was and should remain a filler only. Proper management of initiative should be rewarding, and squandering your initiative by spamming shadow shot or whiffing cloak until you run dry should be severely punished.

Initiative management is the heart and soul of the thief class, and buffing auto-attack damage instead of adding other new features for PvE value waters the initiative mechanic down and narrows the performance gap between a good thief and a bad one.

If you get stuck in a bad spot as a thief, you can spend your initiative to escape where other classes would simply die. By spending that initiative, you become unable to deal significant damage for a short period of time. You can do the same thing for burst, spamming high damage abilities at a target until it dies to finish it off quickly. By spending that initiative, you are now vulnerable if your target did not die. You should have to choose offense or defense, instead of having your cake and eating it too.

This is just getting really stupid: After June no thief has been able to 1 vs 1 any class and everybody knew. That’s why thieves who wanted to play pvp were reported and/or their team mates refused to play because they had a thief on their team – and you say an 1k damage increase is “over the top and unneccessary”?

I have been infracted for asking someone if he was trolling (that was a genuine question) so I’m not asking it again.

Jana.6831:

This is just getting really stupid: After June no thief has been able to 1 vs 1 any class and everybody knew. That’s why thieves who wanted to play pvp were reported and/or their team mates refused to play because they had a thief on their team – and you say an 1k damage increase is “over the top and unneccessary”?

I have been infracted for asking someone if he was trolling (that was a genuine question) so I’m not asking it again.

I recognize that thief was and is still at an unfair disadvantage against specific builds. I simply disagree that buffing autoattack is the answer to help them in any game mode. For the record, it was intended to help them in PvE. I say again that any damage buff short of 50% will not make up for the lack of 10% group damage buff (or 5% raid buff), and 50% increased damage is obviously out of the question.

In PvP, it’s not a Thief problem. It’s a Chronomancer problem. It’s a Scrapper problem. It’s a Dragonhunter problem, etc. Buffing thief damage isn’t the answer. Balancing the new specs is.

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

This is just getting really stupid: After June no thief has been able to 1 vs 1 any class and everybody knew. That’s why thieves who wanted to play pvp were reported and/or their team mates refused to play because they had a thief on their team – and you say an 1k damage increase is “over the top and unneccessary”?

I have been infracted for asking someone if he was trolling (that was a genuine question) so I’m not asking it again.

I recognize that thief was and is still at an unfair disadvantage against specific builds. I simply disagree that buffing autoattack is the answer to help them in any game mode. For the record, it was intended to help them in PvE. I say again that any damage buff short of 50% will not make up for the lack of 10% group damage buff (or 5% raid buff), and 50% increased damage is obviously out of the question.

In PvP, it’s not a Thief problem. It’s a Chronomancer problem. It’s a Scrapper problem. It’s a Dragonhunter problem, etc. Buffing thief damage isn’t the answer. Balancing the new specs is.

You still ignored my counterargument. And if thief isn’t the problem and balancing the new specs is then why are you here on the thief forum?

Orion.3812:

Buffing thief damage isn’t the answer. Balancing the new specs is.

And what should thieves do in the meantime?
Buffing Dagger mainhand and Sword was the easiest way to get thief back on track in PvE and let them apply a bit more pressure during all the invulnerabilities flying around. Still the DPS (including burst) a thief dishes out is less than what most if not all other classes can do.
What you should do is to create a thread on the pvp forums: “Anet your game is absolutely unbalanced, pls fix”.
But: There’s already a lot of threads like that around since at least HoT.

alchemyst.2165:

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

This is just getting really stupid: After June no thief has been able to 1 vs 1 any class and everybody knew. That’s why thieves who wanted to play pvp were reported and/or their team mates refused to play because they had a thief on their team – and you say an 1k damage increase is “over the top and unneccessary”?

I have been infracted for asking someone if he was trolling (that was a genuine question) so I’m not asking it again.

I recognize that thief was and is still at an unfair disadvantage against specific builds. I simply disagree that buffing autoattack is the answer to help them in any game mode. For the record, it was intended to help them in PvE. I say again that any damage buff short of 50% will not make up for the lack of 10% group damage buff (or 5% raid buff), and 50% increased damage is obviously out of the question.

In PvP, it’s not a Thief problem. It’s a Chronomancer problem. It’s a Scrapper problem. It’s a Dragonhunter problem, etc. Buffing thief damage isn’t the answer. Balancing the new specs is.

You still ignored my counterargument. And if thief isn’t the problem and balancing the new specs is then why are you here on the thief forum?

Thief being at a disadvantage is not a problem with thief being individually weak. Thief doing too much damage in PvP/WvW is a current problem since patch. Don’t twist my words.

Your counter argument was to claim that a class with a completely different design has a higher DPS dagger auto. First, DPS and total damage are two different things and thief dagger auto speed was noticeably changed even though I don’t recall seeing it in patch notes. I can get two full chains off before leaping through a black powder now. Second, if we skip fact-checking your claim and assume that it is true, you’re looking at thief autoattack vs necro autoattack in a vacuum. If Necro has less damage potential outside of autoattack, then they need to have a higher autoattack DPS to remain comparable to thief in total DPS.

Jana.6831:

Orion.3812:

Buffing thief damage isn’t the answer. Balancing the new specs is.

And what should thieves do in the meantime?
Buffing Dagger mainhand and Sword was the easiest way to get thief back on track in PvE and let them apply a bit more pressure during all the invulnerabilities flying around. Still the DPS (including burst) a thief dishes out is less than what most if not all other classes can do.
What you should do is to create a thread on the pvp forums: “Anet your game is absolutely unbalanced, pls fix”.
But: There’s already a lot of threads like that around since at least HoT.

In the meantime, thieves could try exploring a way of approaching PvP that doesn’t involve a dependency on instantly killing the enemy. I’ve had some success with DD/SA/AC setups even still using berserker stats.

The most popular thief builds for PvP and WvW are all damage, damage, damage! There are some fine examples of alternative builds right here on this forum that get the job done without the glaring weakness of paper-thin defenses.

Go put on some tanky condi gear and spec to throw caltrops and poisoned daggers everywhere when you dodge. It’s fun and kittenes all of your enemies off. Thief is good at doing that.

But… if your reflexes are good enough and you choose your targets and timing wisely, you can keep on stabbing the same way you always have. That’s right, without Daredevil. It still works.

Orion.3812:

The difference between it taking two hits or three from the AA after backstab to down someone is win or lose.

In that case, wouldn’t the Flanking Strikes trait have been just as bad even before the buff to AA damage?

Orion.3812:

these are the thief’s sustained damage abilities, not auto-attack which was and should remain a filler only.

While it would not benefit every build, filler would be less essential (in PvP) without the extra second of Revealed. I’d much prefer a shorter Revealed time than an AA damage increase… though any buff is welcome, especially to the Sword.

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

Orion.3812:

Buffing thief damage isn’t the answer. Balancing the new specs is.

And what should thieves do in the meantime?
Buffing Dagger mainhand and Sword was the easiest way to get thief back on track in PvE and let them apply a bit more pressure during all the invulnerabilities flying around. Still the DPS (including burst) a thief dishes out is less than what most if not all other classes can do.
What you should do is to create a thread on the pvp forums: “Anet your game is absolutely unbalanced, pls fix”.
But: There’s already a lot of threads like that around since at least HoT.

In the meantime, thieves could try exploring a way of approaching PvP that doesn’t involve a dependency on instantly killing the enemy. I’ve had some success with DD/SA/AC setups even still using berserker stats.

The most popular thief builds for PvP and WvW are all damage, damage, damage! There are some fine examples of alternative builds right here on this forum that get the job done without the glaring weakness of paper-thin defenses.

Go put on some tanky condi gear and spec to throw caltrops and poisoned daggers everywhere when you dodge. It’s fun and kittenes all of your enemies off. Thief is good at doing that.

But… if your reflexes are good enough and you choose your targets and timing wisely, you can keep on stabbing the same way you always have. That’s right, without Daredevil. It still works.

Yes, I think in a pvp environement there should always be classes who are unable to defend themselves – makes perfect sense!

Jana.6831:

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

Orion.3812:

Buffing thief damage isn’t the answer. Balancing the new specs is.

And what should thieves do in the meantime?
Buffing Dagger mainhand and Sword was the easiest way to get thief back on track in PvE and let them apply a bit more pressure during all the invulnerabilities flying around. Still the DPS (including burst) a thief dishes out is less than what most if not all other classes can do.
What you should do is to create a thread on the pvp forums: “Anet your game is absolutely unbalanced, pls fix”.
But: There’s already a lot of threads like that around since at least HoT.

In the meantime, thieves could try exploring a way of approaching PvP that doesn’t involve a dependency on instantly killing the enemy. I’ve had some success with DD/SA/AC setups even still using berserker stats.

The most popular thief builds for PvP and WvW are all damage, damage, damage! There are some fine examples of alternative builds right here on this forum that get the job done without the glaring weakness of paper-thin defenses.

Go put on some tanky condi gear and spec to throw caltrops and poisoned daggers everywhere when you dodge. It’s fun and kittenes all of your enemies off. Thief is good at doing that.

But… if your reflexes are good enough and you choose your targets and timing wisely, you can keep on stabbing the same way you always have. That’s right, without Daredevil. It still works.

Yes, I think in a pvp environement there should always be classes who are unable to defend themselves – makes perfect sense!

You’ve missed the point. Taking a build that isn’t focused so much on damage means you can take traits focused on staying alive instead. At some point, you become so difficult to kill that it’s no longer possible 1v1, and you only need to do enough damage to finish off the opponent between heals in the long game instead of trying to kill them before they get a chance to heal the first time.

Playing like this requires patience, but if you’ll look back at old threads this is ironically the same advice that thieves used to give everyone else who had problems dying too quickly. This strategy works best against glass cannons, because they die easily to any damage at all and if they can’t kill you they lose.

If we had that traits – surprise we have none.

Kageseigi.2150:

Orion.3812:

The difference between it taking two hits or three from the AA after backstab to down someone is win or lose.

In that case, wouldn’t the Flanking Strikes trait have been just as bad even before the buff to AA damage?

Orion.3812:

these are the thief’s sustained damage abilities, not auto-attack which was and should remain a filler only.

While it would not benefit every build, filler would be less essential (in PvP) without the extra second of Revealed. I’d much prefer a shorter Revealed time than an AA damage increase… though any buff is welcome, especially to the Sword.

The flanking strikes trait is less of a problem because a thief taking critical strikes in PvP/WvW has probably foregone a more defensive spec. The difference is that they had to give up survivability to get that damage, whereas a flat damage boost doesn’t cost the thief anything to get there.

As for the +1 second of revealed in sPvP, it’s annoying and I think it was a band-aid fix to a problem that has better solutions now. It’s about time that the extra second of revealed in PvP went away.

Orion.3812:

The flanking strikes trait is less of a problem because a thief taking critical strikes in PvP/WvW has probably foregone a more defensive spec. The difference is that they had to give up survivability to get that damage, whereas a flat damage boost doesn’t cost the thief anything to get there.

Ah, I actually was speaking of the Flanking Strikes trait in the Trickery line. Sorry for the confusion. It gives the Thief Haste (Quickness and Fury) for 6 seconds when attacking from the side or rear. Having a proper Backstab proc the Haste, the Thief’s AA chain significantly speeds up, allowing for that extra hit you mentioned before. I believe the only thing that must be given up is Thrill of the Crime.

Orion.3812:

As for the +1 second of revealed in sPvP, it’s annoying and I think it was a band-aid fix to a problem that has better solutions now. It’s about time that the extra second of revealed in PvP went away.

Amen! :-D

Orion.3812:

alchemyst.2165:

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

This is just getting really stupid: After June no thief has been able to 1 vs 1 any class and everybody knew. That’s why thieves who wanted to play pvp were reported and/or their team mates refused to play because they had a thief on their team – and you say an 1k damage increase is “over the top and unneccessary”?

I have been infracted for asking someone if he was trolling (that was a genuine question) so I’m not asking it again.

I recognize that thief was and is still at an unfair disadvantage against specific builds. I simply disagree that buffing autoattack is the answer to help them in any game mode. For the record, it was intended to help them in PvE. I say again that any damage buff short of 50% will not make up for the lack of 10% group damage buff (or 5% raid buff), and 50% increased damage is obviously out of the question.

In PvP, it’s not a Thief problem. It’s a Chronomancer problem. It’s a Scrapper problem. It’s a Dragonhunter problem, etc. Buffing thief damage isn’t the answer. Balancing the new specs is.

You still ignored my counterargument. And if thief isn’t the problem and balancing the new specs is then why are you here on the thief forum?

Thief being at a disadvantage is not a problem with thief being individually weak. Thief doing too much damage in PvP/WvW is a current problem since patch. Don’t twist my words.

Your counter argument was to claim that a class with a completely different design has a higher DPS dagger auto. First, DPS and total damage are two different things and thief dagger auto speed was noticeably changed even though I don’t recall seeing it in patch notes. I can get two full chains off before leaping through a black powder now. Second, if we skip fact-checking your claim and assume that it is true, you’re looking at thief autoattack vs necro autoattack in a vacuum. If Necro has less damage potential outside of autoattack, then they need to have a higher autoattack DPS to remain comparable to thief in total DPS.

Except for the fact that necros can get just as much, if not more non-AA damage than thieves. You’re forgetting they have reaper’s shroud and death shroud.

The DPS of thieves obviously needed some work done to it. Why do you think nobody picks thieves for PvE, and, up until recently, PvP? Right now that’s a strong point for thief that is weak compared to other classes. What is strong for a thief is nothing for another class. A simple AA tweak does a slight amount to help our DPS, due to the fact that we’re not always AA’ing.

I still don’t see why you think a simple AA buff is enough to push things over the edge, but you seem to be one of those people who dies to a thief in WvW and comes to the forum and complains based on my observations. Even if you claim to play a thief, you should know that the AA buff is nowhere near OP. You’re literally calling OP on a kittening autoattack, lol. It’s quite ridiculous. There seems to be no further point in arguing with you so I’m gonna go ahead and chew my popcorn and watch this play out.

Kageseigi.2150:

Orion.3812:

The flanking strikes trait is less of a problem because a thief taking critical strikes in PvP/WvW has probably foregone a more defensive spec. The difference is that they had to give up survivability to get that damage, whereas a flat damage boost doesn’t cost the thief anything to get there.

Ah, I actually was speaking of the Flanking Strikes trait in the Trickery line. Sorry for the confusion. It gives the Thief Haste (Quickness and Fury) for 6 seconds when attacking from the side or rear. Having a proper Backstab proc the Haste, the Thief’s AA chain significantly speeds up, allowing for that extra hit you mentioned before. I believe the only thing that must be given up is Thrill of the Crime.

Orion.3812:

As for the +1 second of revealed in sPvP, it’s annoying and I think it was a band-aid fix to a problem that has better solutions now. It’s about time that the extra second of revealed in PvP went away.

Amen! :-D

Sorry for the confusion. I think I was thinking of Side Strike instead. So, the thief gives up fury, and receives a small quickness buff. The thief still has to make a choice there. Will that decide some matches? Yes, but so will the lack of Fury.

Jana.6831:

If we had that traits – surprise we have none.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsa4Yn8lCFmilOBmPBkmiFkiqLEygPY+9r/+nrBCgFA-TJxGABAcSA2uMQQ7PYwTAAA

Try flailing around with that for a while in sPvP. If you still die, swap that Marauder amulet out for Cleric for maximum lulz.

Note that gw2skills.net has not updated some tooltips for thief traits yet, so evasion under 50% hp and regen on dodge don’t show in the build in their editor.

I just threw that together and took it into a few matches. It seems difficult to screw up badly enough to get killed with that spec.

The only thing keeping thief from holding a conquest point is that they lose ticks while they are stealthed.

Orion.3812:

Sorry for the confusion. I think I was thinking of Side Strike instead. So, the thief gives up fury, and receives a small quickness buff. The thief still has to make a choice there. Will that decide some matches? Yes, but so will the lack of Fury.

No worries. There are too many similar names between traits and skills for the Thief anyway :-P

Yes, Flanking Strikes will cause the Thief to lose some Fury uptime compared to Thrill of the Crime. But it still provides 6 seconds of Fury and Quickness for the burst. So I guess it goes back to the Burst vs. Sustain issue. If the burst can down the opponent, there’s no need for sustain. However, if the burst fails, the Thief will be lacking the sustained damage.

Kageseigi.2150:

Orion.3812:

Sorry for the confusion. I think I was thinking of Side Strike instead. So, the thief gives up fury, and receives a small quickness buff. The thief still has to make a choice there. Will that decide some matches? Yes, but so will the lack of Fury.

No worries. There are too many similar names between traits and skills for the Thief anyway :-P

Yes, Flanking Strikes will cause the Thief to lose some Fury uptime compared to Thrill of the Crime. But it still provides 6 seconds of Fury and Quickness for the burst. So I guess it goes back to the Burst vs. Sustain issue. If the burst can down the opponent, there’s no need for sustain. However, if the burst fails, the Thief will be lacking the sustained damage.

Yep. And the most important part of that is the choice between one or the other. That’s why I advocate solving the thief’s PvE woes through traits instead of a straight damage buff to an already potent class.

Edit: I suppose utilities could work too. Even reworking Assasin’s Signet to debuff the target instead of buffing the thief would do the job.

Compilation of classes dps fully in raids just an FYI for everyone

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/44dli8/actual_dps_comparison_between_classesguard_ele/

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

If we had that traits – surprise we have none.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsa4Yn8lCFmilOBmPBkmiFkiqLEygPY+9r/+nrBCgFA-TJxGABAcSA2uMQQ7PYwTAAA

Try flailing around with that for a while in sPvP. If you still die, swap that Marauder amulet out for Cleric for maximum lulz.

Note that gw2skills.net has not updated some tooltips for thief traits yet, so evasion under 50% hp and regen on dodge don’t show in the build in their editor.

I just threw that together and took it into a few matches. It seems difficult to screw up badly enough to get killed with that spec.

The only thing keeping thief from holding a conquest point is that they lose ticks while they are stealthed.

what’s the point of the stealth if you can’t get into stealth(only can get in stealth through stealing and black powder and cluster bomb)? seems like u wasted a trait line… Take bounding dodger and it makes more senses but u lose your mobility. also you’ll die in any team fight with pistol whip with that root. If played right yeah you should be fine against solo q’es but against organized teams you won’t…( i got legendary as an s/d thief soloing and duo qing so yeah i still understand that the player makes the build but yeah that one would be better suited with some tweeks)

Also you still haven’t answer a question I asked earlier. What classes and builds does this one AA increase counter? Because of this one buff how do thieves need to get it reverted? give me examples class types and builds, because I’m 100% sure that this buff didn’t change anything when it came to outcomes of fights. If you can explain how this buff has negatively affected the community (talking pvp because wvw has to many passive power buffs such as food and stones). I will gladly say your right but until you can proof that because of this buff that thieves are op and can counter classes it shouldn’t then well your wrong and the buff was correct for purpose of pve. (also i’m still an S/D thief.)

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

If we had that traits – surprise we have none.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsa4Yn8lCFmilOBmPBkmiFkiqLEygPY+9r/+nrBCgFA-TJxGABAcSA2uMQQ7PYwTAAA

Try flailing around with that for a while in sPvP. If you still die, swap that Marauder amulet out for Cleric for maximum lulz.

Note that gw2skills.net has not updated some tooltips for thief traits yet, so evasion under 50% hp and regen on dodge don’t show in the build in their editor.

I just threw that together and took it into a few matches. It seems difficult to screw up badly enough to get killed with that spec.

The only thing keeping thief from holding a conquest point is that they lose ticks while they are stealthed.

what’s the point of the stealth if you can’t get into stealth(only can get in stealth through stealing and black powder and cluster bomb)? seems like u wasted a trait line… Take bounding dodger and it makes more senses but u lose your mobility. also you’ll die in any team fight with pistol whip with that root. If played right yeah you should be fine against solo q’es but against organized teams you won’t…( i got legendary as an s/d thief soloing and duo qing so yeah i still understand that the player makes the build but yeah that one would be better suited with some tweeks)

Also you still haven’t answer a question I asked earlier. What classes and builds does this one AA increase counter? Because of this one buff how do thieves need to get it reverted? give me examples class types and builds, because I’m 100% sure that this buff didn’t change anything when it came to outcomes of fights. If you can explain how this buff has negatively affected the community (talking pvp because wvw has to many passive power buffs such as food and stones). I will gladly say your right but until you can proof that because of this buff that thieves are op and can counter classes it shouldn’t then well your wrong and the buff was correct for purpose of pve. (also i’m still an S/D thief.)

Dagger/Dagger is the alternate weapon set in the linked build, which provides stealth. So does steal. There is no need for bounding dodger and taking it would run counter to the purpose of the build which is survivability, not damage.

To point out why the damage buff is a problem yet again… in any situation where the thief’s opponent would otherwise get away with a sliver of health pre-patch, the thief wins post-patch. That’s across the board, against every class. The squishier the build, the harder the thief damage buff will hit them—but it’s still a universal change that just makes thief more powerful in a department where they were not previously lacking.

There was no PvP justification for the buff. It was a PvE buff. I have been asked over and over now to justify the PvP significance of the damage buff and to all of those still asking after I have already pointed out the problem, my reply is: if you don’t think it matters yourself then you would not be so desperate to argue in favor of keeping the buff.

Orion.3812:

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

If we had that traits – surprise we have none.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAsa4Yn8lCFmilOBmPBkmiFkiqLEygPY+9r/+nrBCgFA-TJxGABAcSA2uMQQ7PYwTAAA

Try flailing around with that for a while in sPvP. If you still die, swap that Marauder amulet out for Cleric for maximum lulz.

Note that gw2skills.net has not updated some tooltips for thief traits yet, so evasion under 50% hp and regen on dodge don’t show in the build in their editor.

I just threw that together and took it into a few matches. It seems difficult to screw up badly enough to get killed with that spec.

The only thing keeping thief from holding a conquest point is that they lose ticks while they are stealthed.

what’s the point of the stealth if you can’t get into stealth(only can get in stealth through stealing and black powder and cluster bomb)? seems like u wasted a trait line… Take bounding dodger and it makes more senses but u lose your mobility. also you’ll die in any team fight with pistol whip with that root. If played right yeah you should be fine against solo q’es but against organized teams you won’t…( i got legendary as an s/d thief soloing and duo qing so yeah i still understand that the player makes the build but yeah that one would be better suited with some tweeks)

Also you still haven’t answer a question I asked earlier. What classes and builds does this one AA increase counter? Because of this one buff how do thieves need to get it reverted? give me examples class types and builds, because I’m 100% sure that this buff didn’t change anything when it came to outcomes of fights. If you can explain how this buff has negatively affected the community (talking pvp because wvw has to many passive power buffs such as food and stones). I will gladly say your right but until you can proof that because of this buff that thieves are op and can counter classes it shouldn’t then well your wrong and the buff was correct for purpose of pve. (also i’m still an S/D thief.)

Dagger/Dagger is the alternate weapon set in the linked build, which provides stealth. So does steal. There is no need for bounding dodger and taking it would run counter to the purpose of the build which is survivability, not damage.

To point out why the damage buff is a problem yet again… in any situation where the thief’s opponent would otherwise get away with a sliver of health pre-patch, the thief wins post-patch. That’s across the board, against every class. The squishier the build, the harder the thief damage buff will hit them—but it’s still a universal change that just makes thief more powerful in a department where they were not previously lacking.

There was no PvP justification for the buff. It was a PvE buff. I have been asked over and over now to justify the PvP significance of the damage buff and to all of those still asking after I have already pointed out the problem, my reply is: if you don’t think it matters yourself then you would not be so desperate to argue in favor of keeping the buff.

I play s/d so buff doesn’t affect me…so yeah. Also people have pointed out the buff was to put thief in line with other classes when it comes to Auto Attacks where ours isn’t kitten. Also the whole damage and sliver of health is a bs cop out. I’m asking for what that buff actually counters, because we all know that anyone can say that about any damage orientated buff because the whole buff is to make it so u can down things easier. Did thief need it yes, did it actually affect anything in pvp not really the same classes still beat us and we still counter the same builds, so again what does this buff actually counter? example “because of this buff we can now rekt DH’s and bruiser druids cuz our dps on AA is so insane just have to do opening burst then do one AA chain.” this of course isn’t true but an example. So give me that proof that this buff does something along those lines with proof. Then I’ll accept your line of thought but please none of this situation bs about before if a thief hit me with his AA chain and I was 1/2 sec from heal and because of that buff i lost instead of not putting myself in that situation in the first place.

Okay – too much talking about nothing.
I love to play s/d, this buff is somewhat nice, but still d/p is better, cause it got buffed too (lol). What is sad about thief is that anet is too lazy to get other weaponsets adjusted. Staff is one trick pony, idk what they were thinking about while creating/buffing it (hmm it has plenty dmg, give it moar).

Now to the point – when thief even use autoattack (not the bad one)? It is when they can trade dmg, enemy is debilated – blinded, immobile, weakened. Usually it is for 1-2 autos from chain – third is risky, can be explited by enemy. So mostly buffed is double strike and it works, cause thief in pvp is all about shadowshot + auto. For those saying panic strike op with autos – nope it is op with heartseeker, don’t give that argument pls.

For s/d you use auto after infiltrator strike and even there you could use flanking strike instead. Here is where panic strike + autos works.

Staff is joke, I won’t comment that.

Noone told about one situation, where AA really shines regardless of weaponset. It is after well used imparing daggers – with buff for autos, and overall dmg this skill is kittenly OP (comparing to before expansion).

As if thief’s dmg is op now. Nope. I played thief since day1, but still my rev (with crusader ammy) can do TWICE as much dmg in match (precision strike can crit even for 7k), but still I can play it nicely only when necros aren’t around.

To sum up – reason why thief is good is because of lazyness of anet making op kittens everywhere, hardcountering everything, buffing just dmg or whatever instead of utility. Thief counters necros (no chill, no kill), necros counter everything else. If only powercreep would stop, instead of dmg boost my rev recieved condicleanse, it would be best day in gw2 (thief would be viable as a class, not as a whack a necro, or scissor vs paper thing).

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

I play s/d so buff doesn’t affect me…so yeah.

Actually, sword autoattack was buffed more than dagger autoattack relative to where the weapons were pre-patch.

So yes, the patch did affect you. You do more damage now than you did before. All thief melee was buffed.

Orion.3812:

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

I play s/d so buff doesn’t affect me…so yeah.

Actually, sword autoattack was buffed more than dagger autoattack relative to where the weapons were pre-patch.

So yes, the patch did affect you. You do more damage now than you did before. All thief melee was buffed.

We were not talking about the buff to skill casting but the buff to dagger damage so yeah….

There always have to be that one god kitten noob who whines about MERITED class upgrades.

Thief is fine as it is now. GTFO and L2P you do not die from auto attack learn your class or change game.

Kaishina.6584:

Thief is fine as it is now. GTFO and L2P you do not die from auto attack learn your class or change game.

Responses like these are what make thief forums such a special place.

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

Orion.3812:

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

I play s/d so buff doesn’t affect me…so yeah.

Actually, sword autoattack was buffed more than dagger autoattack relative to where the weapons were pre-patch.

So yes, the patch did affect you. You do more damage now than you did before. All thief melee was buffed.

We were not talking about the buff to skill casting but the buff to dagger damage so yeah….

We’re talking about a buff to damage output. DPS was buffed for all melee weapons. You deal more DPS than you did before, even if you may deal the same damage on each individual hit. You are more likely to kill an immobilized target before immobilize expires.