Guild Wars 2

Seriously you are just going to nerf every single thing that gets cried about? A single target burst weapon set does high single target damage ? NO WAY. I’m 2 nerfs away from re rolling guardian. I can solo a guardian maybe 5-10% of the time and my class is getting nerfed again. Compensation? What the hell could you possibly improve on? D/D glass cannon is built for doing high damage, compensating anything other than improving damage is kitten /p>

I’m going to say, being a total glass cannon thief… No.

I have no health, I die in two hits, but I do the same to you. Nerfing BS when I spent all my time/money/etc investing in improving that ONE skill (literally why I went crit damage to begin with) and it cripples me to no end. I def. can’t do WvWvW with D/D unless I find a straggler, and I need to go pure bow; which is fine.

Frankly, it’s just the burstiest class. Just because it is doesn’t mean it needs a nerf. But that means that my 2-shotted thief should simply be a big target (which I already am). And there are easily ways to counter a thief, just play one for a bit and you figure it out. Frankly, I find that warriors do much higher consistent damage over time than I do, even though I crit every other hit. They seem to crit just as often, and for higher amounts, are more survivable, and have more health. My backstab is the only thing that keeps me up with my damage input and is a great boss finisher.

I don’t have a problem with TTK being brought up on a whole. If Anet wants to try and make fights last >4 seconds then more power to them, especially if they’re going to do it right and examine all of the professions and the sources of their quick kills..

I also have no pity for the dozens of thieves in this threat making points like “But thieves’ can’t do anything but use backstab, nerfing it will render thieves obsolete”. I hope you all follow through with your threats to roll warriors or guardians, the profession will be better off without people unwilling to look past a single role or build in a game very much meant to bend the rules in those regards.

My two cents on how to make backstab more efficient for everyone. Make backstab a powerful attack but make it very situational. Can only be used if behind the player. The rear damage is around 2k dmg on the tooltip but maybe reduce this damage to deal around 1250-1400 but let backstab give off a condition. Bleed or vulnerability or something. Get creative. It’s backstab so you can say it leaves a mortal wound bleeding the target for 3k damage over 20 seconds or exposing the enemies weakness applies a 5% vulnerability condition. Whatever. How can we nerf the burst of this attack and still make it viable to use without really killing the dmg output of it?

Tulisin.6945:

I also have no pity for the dozens of thieves in this threat making points like “But thieves’ can’t do anything but use backstab, nerfing it will render thieves obsolete”. I hope you all follow through with your threats to roll warriors or guardians, the profession will be better off without people unwilling to look past a single role or build in a game very much meant to bend the rules in those regards.

My bad let me respec my thief for bunkering

Decutho.3642:

Seriously you are just going to nerf every single thing that gets cried about? A single target burst weapon set does high single target damage ? NO WAY. I’m 2 nerfs away from re rolling guardian. I can solo a guardian maybe 5-10% of the time and my class is getting nerfed again. Compensation? What the hell could you possibly improve on? D/D glass cannon is built for doing high damage, compensating anything other than improving damage is kittended

Agree, Im now thinking about developers. I dont know if their have their own braines or just do what kids say. Its same like halloween game “Mad kind say” but here it is “Cry kid say” and developers do it. Thief is mainly damage class and without damage thief is nothing and can be deleted from game. We have the least amount of HP, we are like paper and they take us damage so what we have then? No much HP, no much defence and now no damage. I think that thief is now only for decoration in game. You should buff pistols and bow instead of nerfing daggers.

The stealth nerf just nerfed the p/d (which I WAS using) i have to auto att 3 times instead of 2 now and p/d is just another melee build if you want to do any sort of damage. P/P doesnt have kitten for survivability. S/p is okay but if you miss your 3 your screwed. d/p is just lolsies. The only build that actually is decent is d/d

Decutho.3642:

Tulisin.6945:

I also have no pity for the dozens of thieves in this threat making points like “But thieves’ can’t do anything but use backstab, nerfing it will render thieves obsolete”. I hope you all follow through with your threats to roll warriors or guardians, the profession will be better off without people unwilling to look past a single role or build in a game very much meant to bend the rules in those regards.

My bad let me respec my thief for bunkering

S/D stealth+daze with heavy caltrops is an amazing bunker setup, provided you know how to use your stealth and drop out quickly.

You aren’t being clever by going with the “woe is me, thieves are terrible at everything but the specific tactic I’m using” bandwagon, just confirming that a large portion of the thief community is too narrow-minded and immalleable when it comes to ways the thief can work.

So once again, there is nothing wrong with enjoying a particular playstyle above all others, and it might suck when that particular playstyle suffers a nerf, but the chicken-little’ing over it is uncalled for. Thieves will continue to be an excellent profession in many roles and situations even if steal/C&D→BS gets nerfed, and may actually get stronger depending on what the offset is for the change.

Shinjo.6092:

That’s what you consider spammable? Cause you can do 2 in 3 seconds?

Do you think that it isn’t enough?
Some skills like Dragon’s Tooth float on the enemy’s head for 1-2 seconds to less damage of backstab and than go on cooldown for 6 seconds.
Ghastly Claws channels for 3 seconds and than go on cooldown for 8 seconds to deal less than half of the backstab damage, same as Life Siphon, which channels one second more, deal less damage and recharges in 12 seconds.
Those are only few examples.

When we are talking about over 6k damage in a hit, 3-4 seconds are too low to be able to do it another time.

Shinjo.6092:

Do you know why they called it backstab instead of frontstab, or sideways face stab? It’s because you actually have to get BEHIND the guy to do full damage. And if you’re using your heals and gettaway moves for backstab, then you’re NOT using your heals and gettaway moves to…well…heal and gettaway, making it THAT much easier to take down the glass cannon thief.

Well, in most cases, your getaway skill is Hide in Shadows and it is more than enough.
You can also use the trait that stealths you on steal, to save some initiative to land another backstab.

Also you have some traits which stealth you automatically when it is time to get away…

Shinjo.6092:

Are you talking about burst damage or sustained damage? Are you surprised that not every other profession has burst damage? Or, if you’re talking about sustained damage, what do you think happens to a thief’s damage when their initiative runs out?

Oh well, thieves are great as sustained and burst damage.
Burst damage is ridiculous, sustained damage over time is much more ridiculous. I’ve met some thieves in tPvP which spammed Death Blossom while popping in and out of stealth and running with high toughness/vitality, they were nearly impossible to kill.

Honestly the problem isn’t really backstab itself, its the fact that the 3 hit combo happens simulataniously for 15k dmg minimum. Disallow buffering and you wont have to change the skill much if at all. Although if you do that the thief downed state would need a counter.

Decutho.3642:

The stealth nerf just nerfed the p/d (which I WAS using) i have to auto att 3 times instead of 2 now and p/d is just another melee build if you want to do any sort of damage. P/P doesnt have kitten for survivability. S/p is okay but if you miss your 3 your screwed. d/p is just lolsies. The only build that actually is decent is d/d

D/P suffers from an awkward dual skill, but heartseekering through blinding powder is an excellent way to set up back stabs.
P/P is pretty terrible, agreed.
P/D is still a very potent condition build, but it does have to be played at close range at least some of the time.
S/P has more going for it than PW.
S/D(which you didn’t mention at all) is very powerful, but requires a lot more attention to positioning and movement.

If a nerf to backstab combo and a buff elsewhere gets rid of a bunch of “min/max towards offense, use d/d, everything else is bad, only care about 1v1” thieves, the profession will be better for it.

@sorrow.2364 sounds like you play a necro

awesome that you have 30k hp and can send back every one of our status effects onto ourselfs with just one skill. your skills just have a cool down while ours have a set amount of skill we can use in a battle and if we run out guess what? we are dead

@Tulisin.6945
S/D yes its actually play able but remember skill 3 wont hit anyone who moves and it is used for multi targets that are close together while d/d is used for single target damage so they can’t be compared effectively

Im really sad what i see. Kids rule game and say what developers must do and developers do it. Bravo.

Runcore.5107:

Decutho.3642:

Seriously you are just going to nerf every single thing that gets cried about? A single target burst weapon set does high single target damage ? NO WAY. I’m 2 nerfs away from re rolling guardian. I can solo a guardian maybe 5-10% of the time and my class is getting nerfed again. Compensation? What the hell could you possibly improve on? D/D glass cannon is built for doing high damage, compensating anything other than improving damage is kittended

Agree, Im now thinking about developers. I dont know if their have their own braines or just do what kids say. Its same like halloween game “Mad kind say” but here it is “Cry kid say” and developers do it. Thief is mainly damage class and without damage thief is nothing and can be deleted from game. We have the least amount of HP, we are like paper and they take us damage so what we have then? No much HP, no much defence and now no damage. I think that thief is now only for decoration in game. You should buff pistols and bow instead of nerfing daggers.

Oh my god, the world is coming to an end! The strongest glass cannon in the entire game is being toned down to the power of other glass cannons, but the thief players want buffs instead. Oh, what a cruel world. Having the luxury of being stronger than any other burst build, they now must accept the harsh reality of being as good as any other burst build! Protect the frail thieves! Protect them from this cruel world!

dat bunny.5074:

@sorrow.2364 sounds like you play a necro

awesome that you have 30k hp and can send back every one of our status effects onto ourselfs with just one skill. your skills just have a cool down while ours have a set amount of skill we can use in a battle and if we run out guess what? we are dead

30K hp when fully specced but, unfortunately, we have no Stealth which removes condition when traited and apply regeneration and we have no Shadow Refuge which grants you 10+ seconds of invisibility + heals.

Plus, the skills which transfers conditions requires a target and usually can’t hit evading players, because, you know, death blossom also let you evade attacks…

The only chance you have is to hope that the thief is that noob to step on your putrid mark, but anyway it just transfer the conditions one time every 25 seconds, while thieves can easily apply 10+ stacks of bleeding every 8 seconds.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Runcore.5107:

Decutho.3642:

Seriously you are just going to nerf every single thing that gets cried about? A single target burst weapon set does high single target damage ? NO WAY. I’m 2 nerfs away from re rolling guardian. I can solo a guardian maybe 5-10% of the time and my class is getting nerfed again. Compensation? What the hell could you possibly improve on? D/D glass cannon is built for doing high damage, compensating anything other than improving damage is kittended

Agree, Im now thinking about developers. I dont know if their have their own braines or just do what kids say. Its same like halloween game “Mad kind say” but here it is “Cry kid say” and developers do it. Thief is mainly damage class and without damage thief is nothing and can be deleted from game. We have the least amount of HP, we are like paper and they take us damage so what we have then? No much HP, no much defence and now no damage. I think that thief is now only for decoration in game. You should buff pistols and bow instead of nerfing daggers.

Oh my god, the world is coming to an end! The strongest glass cannon in the entire game is being toned down to the power of other glass cannons, but the thief players want buffs instead. Oh, what a cruel world. Having the luxury of being stronger than any other burst build, they now must accept the harsh reality of every other burst build! Protect the frail thieves! Protect them from the world!

Haha, we just want buff something as compensation for nerf of something so its balanced. You think that thief is stronges character? Are you sure that you play same game? Thief is like paper and is dead very fast if you know play your own character and you are no noob but i see that you are. Only ppl who was defeated by thief now cry on forum and call for nerf. You better shut up with you necro. Necro is much more OP than other classes on game.

Ppl who cry here all day are only wretches who dont know how play and then want make other class useless. I go vomit from listening you.

in any game where the ttk can be this short from one or more classes it becomes a serious issue.

this is not call of duty. you have an easier time fighting back from being jumped in battlefield 3 than being jumped by a thief in this game.

it’s better for the overall health of the game if burst like this is tuned down. this is a fix that can be done now to help retain players now, than an eventual months-long nailing of the culling issue which by then you may have lost too many players for it to matter.

i’ve been around these games over 20 years and i know for many of you this is not your first mmorpg nor your first pvp focused mmorpg. you know VERY WELL that the longer a situation like this exists the more of a detriment to the overall playerbase it becomes. gamers are an unforgiving lot and don’t generally give mmorpg’s a second chance.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Runcore.5107:

Decutho.3642:

Seriously you are just going to nerf every single thing that gets cried about? A single target burst weapon set does high single target damage ? NO WAY. I’m 2 nerfs away from re rolling guardian. I can solo a guardian maybe 5-10% of the time and my class is getting nerfed again. Compensation? What the hell could you possibly improve on? D/D glass cannon is built for doing high damage, compensating anything other than improving damage is kittended

Agree, Im now thinking about developers. I dont know if their have their own braines or just do what kids say. Its same like halloween game “Mad kind say” but here it is “Cry kid say” and developers do it. Thief is mainly damage class and without damage thief is nothing and can be deleted from game. We have the least amount of HP, we are like paper and they take us damage so what we have then? No much HP, no much defence and now no damage. I think that thief is now only for decoration in game. You should buff pistols and bow instead of nerfing daggers.

Oh my god, the world is coming to an end! The strongest glass cannon in the entire game is being toned down to the power of other glass cannons, but the thief players want buffs instead. Oh, what a cruel world. Having the luxury of being stronger than any other burst build, they now must accept the harsh reality of being as good as any other burst build! Protect the frail thieves! Protect them from this cruel world!

Strongest burst damage maybe, squishiest? Definately. As for strongest class cannon in the game? no

Dixa.6017:

you have an easier time fighting back from being jumped in battlefield 3 than being jumped by a thief in this game.

You never played competitive BF3 then did you?

I see what you’re saying but this comparison is so bad, not to mention wrong.

I have to say, it wont be the nerf that will make me dissapointed, it will be that the devs listened to the whiners. FTP or not, it will make me wonder at the direction of the game, and my future in it.

when your done with nerfing the thief lets talk about mesmers MOA andmake a real stink about it on the forums

Im a thief, the backstab nerf is needed. It will be great if they change 18k of damamge from 2 secs to 4or5

Removing the steal/cnd combo will do that niceley without nerfing anything damage wise

Decutho.3642:

Strongest burst damage maybe, squishiest? Definately. As for strongest class cannon in the game? no

An elementalist is durable when specced for defense, but I can’t in no way imaginable think of a glass cannon elementalist build that is less squishy than any kind of thief, as elementalists have the same HP pool, lower armor, no awesome stealth, and a handful few defensive skills that, more times than not, require them to get hit or simply delay their death for one or two seconds. All the while, a glass cannon elementalist takes about twice the time to deal as much damage as a thief, and their attacks are far slower and easier to avoid.

In comparison to any professions, thieves are way too easy to play. An elementalist or an engineer must play keyboard piano and use a crazy amount of combinations, a warrior is extremely predictable and must be persistent to manage to hit meaningfully, and a burst mesmer also happens to be one of the strongest glass cannons in the game and anyone is expecting a nerf for it sooner or later.

I don’t see how nerfing the thieves initial bursts but increasing their damage over time will ruin thieves. If anything, it’ll make them equally strong, but harder to play with, which is one of their main problems imo.

I don’t know if the Dev’s are still reading this, but giving theifs more Combo based abilities would be good.

Or giving some more utility when using a pistol offhand, I seem to find that there is just not quite enough to compensate losing the free easy 1 touch button stealth to use pistol offhand with a dagger. even though you already get a free daze and a “miss” field it just feels a lot more lacklustre. Though not too much because when combined with sword its almost too good because you have 2 stuns, 2 gap closers, a slow and a miss field.

“Dont nerf me, bro” Said the Thief.
“Thou shall be nerfed” Said the Dev.
“I will be warrior food” Said the Thief.
“You cant win ’’em all, bro” Said the Dev.

True story….

TheLordQ.1857:

Once upon a time a game called Diablo 3 was popular. Then that game nerfed anything that was fun to use into boring-ness. Then, that game took the better path of buffing things that AREN’T used instead of nerfing things that are used. But it was too late and Diablo 3 lost a ton of its momentum.

Learn from Diablo 3. Buff things that aren’t used. Think carefully before nerfing things that are.

It feels like every set of patch notes has lowered lowered lowered all over it. I know you are a new game, and balance can only be chased, never found. I’d just rather it be chased in another direction.

Thanks for reading.

I’m sorry, but are you slightly… -.-

Biggest difference between Diablo 3’s nerf and GW2 ner’s is the fact Diablo 3 is a HACK’N’SLASH RPG. It’s not an MMO. HnS/A-RPG’S like Diablo are MEANT to make you feel powerful and strong. You’re MEANT to be 1 shotting or running around like a beast. The nerfs Blizzard did in D3 made people underpowered, not powerful anymore, so they left.

This is an MMO. Every class is to be balanced not just for PvE, but for PvP; 1 v 1 or even groups. It’s rather unfair that 1 class can have a sheer advantage over the other, simply because it’s an MMO, with balanced Player vs. Player. Otherwise, everyone will be using 1 class, the most “powerful class”. The same thing happens in WoW. They recently nerfed hunters because they were able to 1-shot people in PvP, giving them an unfair advantage over other players.

I think someones first PC game was Diablo 3….

The thief class going down hill with the nerfs just like wow

PvE -rogue in wow pure dps

PvP – When battle grounds came out they eventually nerfed high crit builds eg rogue,mage by introducing resilience

why because peeps cry a river

Shame to see it happen here

Time to roll mesmer and melt faces

Weapon X.5163:

“Dont nerf me, bro” Said the Thief.
“Thou shall be nerfed” Said the Dev.
“I will be warrior food” Said the Thief.
“You cant win ’’em all, bro” Said the Dev.

True story….

“Warriors, thou shall all be granted a buff also” Said the Dev

True story

But on an unrelated note backstabs damage should not be nerfed, infact the skill should not even be touched, nerf the range on steal to something like 300….

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

Ashanor.5319:

Teleports NOT canceling current actions is a cool mechanic that works very well, and is very fun, with other professions. For example, a Mesmer with Blink or an Elementalist with Lightning Flash can spend one utility slot to make sure their self-root bursts hit reliably.

Fixing a mechanic to balance a single skill sequence from a single profession, while ruining perfectly balanced strategies from other classes, is not a good idea. Clearly, as I’ve shown, the problem is not with the teleport mechanic itself, because it works greatly in other situations.

Ever consider that maybe you shouldn’t be able to make it hit reliably? Maybe it should take a little more practice to make it hit reliably? For instance, it makes C&D way to easy to land.

Hmm, Remove the teleport, give 3 seconds stealth on usage of steal(Would reduce the time of the spike greatly), change the trait with gives stealth upon stealing to something else.

Or reduce the range of steal to 300-450 traited to 600

Steal range is currently 900 untraited (I believe), but very few people actually take the increased range trait. I don’t agree with removing the teleport from steal, but I am fine with making it pre casting C&D and then using steal to teleport to them and land C&D doesn’t work. Leave the trait as is imo. Steal shouldn’t get a free stealth, currently you have to spec into a defensive line for it.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

…The rear damage is around 2k dmg on the tooltip but maybe reduce this damage …

It’s 806 actually, when hitting from the back, 403 otherwise. Getting high requires the build is totally aimed to maximize damage.

Tulisin.6945:

S/D stealth+daze with heavy caltrops is an amazing bunker setup, provided you know how to use your stealth and drop out quickly.

You know a lot about playing a class you implied you never played?

Dixa.6017:

…this is a fix that can be done now to help retain players now, than an eventual months-long nailing of the culling issue…

The problem with that approach is that while you may compensate for the culling bug in PvP, mobs in PvE are not affected by this issue and by addressing the culling issue by reducing skill effectiveness the Thief profession is weakened for PvE.

Oh well, thieves are great as sustained and burst damage.
Burst damage is ridiculous, sustained damage over time is much more ridiculous. I’ve met some thieves in tPvP which spammed Death Blossom while popping in and out of stealth and running with high toughness/vitality, they were nearly impossible to kill.

Crit Warrior (Axe/Mace/Hammer) is better sustained imo, and that is with 30 in his toughness line.

frans.8092:

Tulisin.6945:

S/D stealth+daze with heavy caltrops is an amazing bunker setup, provided you know how to use your stealth and drop out quickly.

You know a lot about playing a class you implied you never played?

This build is very effective in my experience, but doesn’t match my preferred playstyle. However, instead of pretending it doesn’t exist and proclaiming the way I enjoy playing to be “the one true thief”™, I can recognize and respect that there are effective playstyles outside of my preferred one.

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

But on an unrelated note backstabs damage should not be nerfed, infact the skill should not even be touched, nerf the range on steal to something like 300….

Brilliant, nerf the ability that all thief builds use and nerf the profession across the board, instead of targetting the 1 ability that has the problem.

You must be some kind of balance savant.

Shinjo.6092:

I really don’t know what your definition of “spamming” is but clearly, it’s different from mine if you believe that doing something twice, with 3 seconds in between, while having to do dodges within that time, is considered “spamming”.

I like where you’re headed though. Never mind that those moves are ranged, AOE’s, and/or gains Life Force. We should just have all the moves output the exact same amount of damage. Thieves should have to stealth and get behind the guy just to do the same single target damage as an ele casting AOE from afar. That is just…brilliance.

I’m not saying that you should do the same damage dude, I’m just saying that right now dealing that damage is easy, it is instant and can be done every 3-4 seconds.
The effectiveness/effort ratio is way too high. If you add to the equation heartseeker, mug and CnD to burst, you realize that there shouldn’t be that damage in that time and with that effort.

Just look at Hundred Blades, it channels for 3 seconds and an half and roots you on the ground to deal a bit more of the Backstab damage. Eviscerate, also, has to be charged for at least 10 seconds (if you are hitting very fast), has a cooldown of 10 seconds and hits for less damage than backstab.
They are also close ranged, just to say.

If you want the damage as it is right now it should be way harder to land and should have some sort of cooldown attached.

Shinjo.6092:

One whine at a time, pleeeaasse. Otherwise, we might run out of stuff to nerf next week.

Read: I have no valid arguments against.

OK. Pure numbers. WvW. I am a lv80 engineer. 1718 toughness (ok, I understand that is nearly close to a bunker build but its hardly a glass cannon as well in WvW where you have different stats than in sPvP). Backstabbed from stealthed thief for 15,991. I have 19560 HP. I stared at the log for one minute with an urge to smash my monitor. Yes I mad. Can someone please tell me HOW THE **** this is “fine” and “balanced” and how much I need to L2P? I am waiting.

Edit: Forgot to add that he followed this with Cloak and Dagger for 6091, so yes, my entire HP vanished in 1 second.

On a real note….the damage is not that out of line. The real issue is the rendering issues with stealth. When you are fighting GOOD thiefs you will see them maybe twice in a fight.

Rendering takes longer than the debuff for restealthing.

We all know they are paper thin, but that doesnt matter if you cant see them.

I’m sure you know this, but you can still tab onto a thief with the rendering issue to have a little red arrow above their head even if they aren’t rendered.

The issue still needs to be fixed, but there are ways of making it a bit easier to deal with.

Fate.8673:

I am a Ranger main and I am here to sympathize with you Thieves.

Welcome to the ****ed in the kitten by ANet club.

I believe backstab is fine as is, WAS fine with the old Assasin’s Signet, and should not be nerfed.

1v1 Thieves should NEVER get off a backstab combo. You have to outplay them.

3v3+ Thieves maybe can pull one off, but they will die to residual aoe before they can even think about finishing their target. Just rez them and laugh and the now useless thief.

If you can pull off a backstab combo consistently you should be rewarded. The strength OF the thief class is high burst, so why nerf their burst?

Honestly losing faith in this company more and more each game (PvP wise…)

I joined that club many years ago when I found out Assassins had to use Ranger elite Barrage to spread bleeds as a viable PvE build. Then they ended up nerfing that too by limiting the bleeds from sharpen daggers to 5…

Fk me for not learning the first time around.

Awe.1096:

OK. Pure numbers. WvW. I am a lv80 engineer. 1718 toughness (ok, I understand that is nearly close to a bunker build but its hardly a glass cannon as well in WvW where you have different stats than in sPvP). Backstabbed from stealthed thief for 15,991. I have 19560 HP. I stared at the log for one minute with an urge to smash my monitor. Yes I mad. Can someone please tell me HOW THE **** this is “fine” and “balanced” and how much I need to L2P? I am waiting.

Edit: Forgot to add that he followed this with Cloak and Dagger for 6091, so yes, my entire HP vanished in 1 second.

I honestly have no clue how he pulled that off. I’m in rare/exotic berserkers with exotic daggers. I’m assuming he had 3 orbs and assassins signet active. The biggest crit Ive ever done is 8k to someone in beginning armor in WvW. My backstab crits are usually between 4-6k

ive backstabbed for 19k on a glass elementalist

If traited right you can add 10 stacks of might on activating 2 signets just before (blinding them in the process) and apply vunerablilty upon doing the backstab/cnd/steal combo – Thats with the recent Assassins signet nerf

1 thing i dont get is people saying the thief is invisible when it happens, he teleports in from a range, so its not a stealth issue – just mis understanding, but still its easily done and totally a massivley hard thing to counter when you can telelport, run the combo and be out of there in under 2 secs

Im a thief, and its not fair on the others. I now run a condition build.it feels much more balanced and the fights are better and more rewarding than just seeing a big number. GW2 really comes into its own when you dont play with a BS build. PvP at its finest.

ATM BS build overshadows all the rest of the perfectly viable builds (many thiefs will tell you BS is all its got going for it and if you nerf that the class is doomed – its not true)

As far as bursty Thief builds – They currently rely on 1 big burst. To balance the game thiefs should rely on 2 bursts to get a target down. Not one, but have the utility to survive and do so (They have this utility already)

Hidden killer is great with CnD and backstab, which can allow you to do this. But every always picks executioner

Will be interesting what ANET comes up with. So far I agree with all the changes they have done

Executioner players a big part of the backstab 19k damage as when the target is down to 50% health it does 20% extra damage. A crit from a Steal and a CnD combo can get the target below 50% setting you up for a super massive backstab

If they tone down MUG and break the skill stack of the Steal/CnD combo, it should be at a good place for testing

The spike and time it takes to pull of the BS/Steal/CnD is broken. It all happens to fast. requires 3 buttons after activating a few signets.

Theres about 6 different angles which it can be fixed without breaking the build

Executioner is also responsible for Heartseeker doing 7-8k damage. I think Executioner needs to get nerfed to 10% and MUG needs toning down. Then its fixed

Just look at Hundred Blades, it channels for 3 seconds and an half and roots you on the ground to deal a bit more of the Backstab damage. Eviscerate, also, has to be charged for at least 10 seconds (if you are hitting very fast), has a cooldown of 10 seconds and hits for less damage than backstab.
They are also close ranged, just to say.

Technically it doesn’t come up a great deal in PvP, but you’re forgetting that Hundred Blades is also an AoE attack.
In regards to Eviscerate, Backstab by comparison has an effective recharge of about 6 seconds, requires you to manage to get behind the person which is harder than you might think, and also reduces your ability to use other attacks in between due to the shared resource.
You say they’re close ranged, but so is Backstab. Shadowstep is from an entirely different ability, and if you want to include that in the equation then you also need to consider that it has a 45 second cooldown, and the Greatsword Warrior has the charge with an even longer range and shorter cooldown to offset the instantaneous activation.

I have might duration runes and eat % to gain might on crit foods. I also have might on dodge and receive a bit of endurance back each time I dodge. When I do wvw or even Pve in large groups, I can easily pick up might boons from other players. I get an instant 5 stacks of might when I use a signet. I have a % to gain might on crit sigil on my dagger and a sigil that gives permanent (until downed) power bonuses to my stats.

I use a CnD build where I have 100% crit rate when attacking from stealth.

What I’m trying to say is that I can easily get a full stack of Might (25 stack cap) and reach 4000 power quite easily.

My armor is all power/vitality/toughness on the stats to help keep me alive. A glass cannon build is NOT fun in my opinion. Without the ability to survive an attack as a thief, the class is terribly boring and not worth the effort.

…I FEAR Guardians, engineers, mesmers, warriors, elementalists, necromancers, and thieves. But, I when I say I fear them, it is because there is always a chance I will come across a player that KNOWS how to play their class.

These people who are crying for nerfs are NOT skilled at PvP. Learn to play YOUR class vs other classes.

YES, I can understand how Glass Cannon Thieves can be OP, but nerfing backstab could going to hurt every backstab build there is. Tell me, what do I have after backstab gets needed to hell? Venoms? I didn’t make my thief to have Venoms as my only useful purpose in PvP…

There are a lot of professions out there that have higher bursts than thieves and also higher survivability, if they are to nerf thieves AGAIN thous profession should get the same treatment.

Honestly scabies, that is my biggest concern right now, is that I’ll have to focus on condition builds using venoms and bleed because that’s all we have left. I hate that. Cannot stand condition builds. I like direct damage, that’s where I shine, not hitting someone and watching their health go down slowly.

Webley

I think Executioner needs to get nerfed to 10%

Executioner is filling the “10 % increased damage when requirements are met” slot that most of the trait trees have. It has 20 % because the increase damage only applies 50 % of the time. 10 % increase 50 % of the time would make it underpowered compared to its peer traits. 15 % might be more reasonable.

Tulisin.6945:

Webley

I think Executioner needs to get nerfed to 10%

Executioner is filling the “10 % increased damage when requirements are met” slot that most of the trait trees have. It has 20 % because the increase damage only applies 50 % of the time. 10 % increase 50 % of the time would make it underpowered compared to its peer traits. 15 % might be more reasonable.

Actually, many of the requirements held by those other traits only allow them to apply maybe half the time. For example I’m quite sure there’s one that gives 10% more damage while Endurance is full, so you lose it for a full 10 seconds every time you dodge.
The permanent +%damage traits are all 5%, and work with specific weapons.
How Executioner got by as 20% is beyond me, but I think most of the Backstab builds take Hidden Killer instead anyway, so I doubt that’s the problem here.

Grimwolf.7163:

Actually, many of the requirements held by those other traits only allow them to apply maybe half the time. For example I’m quite sure there’s one that gives 10% more damage while Endurance is full, so you lose it for a full 10 seconds every time you dodge.

You are incorrect, the one you’re thinking of is “10 % increased damage whenever endurance isn’t full” which is quite easy to keep 100 % uptime on. Initiative >6 and “target has a condition” are also easy to keep 100 % uptime on. Trickery’s “1 % damage per banked initiative” is a little different, but isn’t much harder than keeping >6, and scales much better (up to 15 %, and below 10 % without an instant cutoff to 0 %). The specific 5 % damage traits aren’t as high-tier as the 10 % damage traits.

Thieves aren’t nearly as dangerous in sPvP – characters are naturally tankier there and do less damage due to the gear available. You cannot get anything on par with full Berserker’s or Rampager’s in sPvP, while more defensive gear like the PvP Knight’s or Rabid is stuff to kill for in a lot of PvE builds.

1) No thief can kill any class with toughness gear instantly.
2) When they do kill someone instantly or fast.. they are picking on the weak..under leveled,under geared squishies.
3)Heaven forbid there is a gank class with high single target damage..OMG
4)Yes we have stealth which helps us survive.. but we also have the lowest health pools and no defensive boons..
5)You people make it seem like if a thief kills one guy it changes the whole zerg scenario.. NOPE
6)Thief AoE is OP… wait what?! scratch that.. cuz you know cluster bomb is really effective from full range..NOPE
7)No such thing as unlimited stealth..its a rendering issue. ANET please fix it so people can stop whinning.

Thanks

Doomdesire.9365:

Honestly scabies, that is my biggest concern right now, is that I’ll have to focus on condition builds using venoms and bleed because that’s all we have left. I hate that. Cannot stand condition builds. I like direct damage, that’s where I shine, not hitting someone and watching their health go down slowly.

Yes, I love the direct damage I have. It makes me feel like a thief. I’ve heard of a thief that gives love taps.

I supposed the only way I’ll be interested in going Venom builds is if they buff it really really hard. And I mean buffed to the point where I won’t get LAUGHED AT in a party for fighting like that.