Guild Wars 2

EasymodeX.4062:

Proof’s already in the thread. You’re sticking your head in the sand and/or are ignorant of your own class.

For the 4th and the last time, outdated/WvW screens/videos doesn´t count….
Class balance must be determined based on a balanced circumstances (equal quality gear, no orb bonuses etc…)

You´re kinda consistent about ignoring this fact, don´t you think? Just leave, you won´t be missed….

I think the devs are going to nerf it no matter what, because 95% of the population doesn’t know how to get some toughness vit gear. I swear, you need to hold their hands and escort them to learn alphabets. Sigh. Nerf, after nerf, after nerf. I feel like I need to quit the game thanks to the whine.

In my opinion (as a thief player), just adding a 5 ini cost to backstab would change a lot of things.. Sure you keep the initial burst, but then you REALLY do pay for it like people claim (oh I BS then I can’t do anything- BULL).. I can CND/BS repeatedly forever with my build even throwing a heartseeker in after every BS to keep gap closed. It’s a bit cheesy IMO / no I don’t use glass full burst build or use any stuns.

As others have mentioned making it so you can’t pre-cast CND then Steal would make a huge difference as well, it feels cheesy and gimmicky every time I do it.

Anyone who thinks the thief burst doesn’t need tweaked in some way is a poor player who is scared to adapt to a thief that would actually take skill to score kills.

When I can insta-gib a true 80 in wvw and I’m NOT berserker built, SOMETHING is wrong.

BTW – Those who scream oh just get some toughness.. My Mesmer is in FULL Knights gear armor/weapon/trinkets(exotic except for trinkets atm AND I have 25 points down the toughness trait line) and I can still be burst down in one venom by a glass thief.. If my Blink happens to be on CD when I get hit well GG, that is just lame IMO.

STRanger.5120:

For the 4th and the last time, outdated/WvW screens/videos doesn´t count….
Class balance must be determined based on a balanced circumstances (equal quality gear, no orb bonuses etc…)

You´re kinda consistent about ignoring this fact, don´t you think? Just leave, you won´t be missed….

Outdated?

Balanced circumstances?

I was combo’d for 33k damage when I had 3 orbs (e.g. I had 150 bonus toughness) within 0.3 seconds. By Thieves from different servers.

Ignoring facts?

Son, learn what your class is capable of then come back to the discussion.

sogeou.7845:

Also you can’t look a some SS. There was a glitch which one rune set was giving 50% extra damage. I saw lots of people including some thieves using this bug. Button line is a thief won’t kill someone in .03 second. If all things are equal it will take a few.

Nice troll attempt to mislead with the Rune reference that increased total damage by 3%.

dank it is the same for all classes who have low HP pools. You live by the sword you die by it. My list for easiest classes to kill would have to be.

Rangers
Thief
Warrior

In that order.

No, the bug that they fixed over 2 weeks ago was not 3% it was bugged and doing 50 extra damage.

Also, easytroll x you are not getting hit for 30k in the game currently. I am gonna tell bus to take away your posting privileges.

EasymodeX.4062:

Outdated?

Balanced circumstances?

I was combo’d for 33k damage when I had 3 orbs (e.g. I had 150 bonus toughness) within 0.3 seconds. By Thieves from different servers.

Ignoring facts?

Son, learn what your class is capable of then come back to the discussion.

Well, in that situation, I was killed by a staff Elementalist as he just looked at me, nerf them!!!!
/irony
Show proof or get lost, I can make things up too….

You already said it’s a frigging glass thief, someone who can similarly get killed in 2 seconds by a guardian or otherwise.

dank.3680:

In my opinion (as a thief player), just adding a 5 ini cost to backstab would change a lot of things.. Sure you keep the initial burst, but then you REALLY do pay for it like people claim (oh I BS then I can’t do anything- BULL).. I can CND/BS repeatedly forever with my build even throwing a heartseeker in after every BS to keep gap closed. It’s a bit cheesy IMO / no I don’t use glass full burst build or use any stuns.

As others have mentioned making it so you can’t pre-cast CND then Steal would make a huge difference as well, it feels cheesy and gimmicky every time I do it.

Anyone who thinks the thief burst doesn’t need tweaked in some way is a poor player who is scared to adapt to a thief that would actually take skill to score kills.

When I can insta-gib a true 80 in wvw and I’m NOT berserker built, SOMETHING is wrong.

BTW – Those who scream oh just get some toughness.. My Mesmer is in FULL Knights gear armor/weapon/trinkets(exotic except for trinkets atm AND I have 25 points down the toughness trait line) and I can still be burst down in one venom by a glass thief.. If my Blink happens to be on CD when I get hit well GG, that is just lame IMO.

First off, but if you blink is on CD you will destroy them basically every time.

Honestly I feel that the only thing that needs to be done is put a .1 second cast on steal so that you can’t precast with it. This would hurt a couple of other precast usages but would force the thief to shadowstep in then have 1 second to cast and land CnD or would force them to use another mechanic to enter stealth or close the gap.

This would effectively force players using the all signets insta-gib combo to drop a signet for either a stealth or gap closer either of which would be on longer cool down than steal.

gaspara.4079:

dank.3680:

In my opinion (as a thief player), just adding a 5 ini cost to backstab would change a lot of things.. Sure you keep the initial burst, but then you REALLY do pay for it like people claim (oh I BS then I can’t do anything- BULL).. I can CND/BS repeatedly forever with my build even throwing a heartseeker in after every BS to keep gap closed. It’s a bit cheesy IMO / no I don’t use glass full burst build or use any stuns.

As others have mentioned making it so you can’t pre-cast CND then Steal would make a huge difference as well, it feels cheesy and gimmicky every time I do it.

Anyone who thinks the thief burst doesn’t need tweaked in some way is a poor player who is scared to adapt to a thief that would actually take skill to score kills.

When I can insta-gib a true 80 in wvw and I’m NOT berserker built, SOMETHING is wrong.

BTW – Those who scream oh just get some toughness.. My Mesmer is in FULL Knights gear armor/weapon/trinkets(exotic except for trinkets atm AND I have 25 points down the toughness trait line) and I can still be burst down in one venom by a glass thief.. If my Blink happens to be on CD when I get hit well GG, that is just lame IMO.

First off, but if you blink is on CD you will destroy them basically every time.

Honestly I feel that the only thing that needs to be done is put a .1 second cast on steal so that you can’t precast with it. This would hurt a couple of other precast usages but would force the thief to shadowstep in then have 1 second to cast and land CnD or would force them to use another mechanic to enter stealth or close the gap.

This would effectively force players using the all signets insta-gib combo to drop a signet for either a stealth or gap closer either of which would be on longer cool down than steal.

The main reason why CnD is paired is because the precast time for CnD is atrocious. Even if you shadowstep and hit that CnD it will never hit in time due to lag or miss half the time because the enemy dodges away. Makes me wonder why non-thieves are even trying to suggest solutions which will effectively cripple the thief class.

Wait…

gaspara why would you balance something that can get done once every 30-45 seconds? That is not the problem. The problem is the game and stats. You need to Nerf crit damage and that will fix all the problems for all classes doing over the top damage. Just like mesers and engies and warriors.

trait: each signet thats gets activated gets you 5 stack of might for 5 seconds
x3signets = 15 might + steal bonus of 2 and from stealth you get 17+
+backstab on a noob with 1500armor, and crit him , and +105%crit dmg
omg omg. i received 30k dmg on 1 hit, clearly op…must…nerf…
also we assume he didn’t cheat on the picture, and got naked before the blow

later edit: i love my thief, but nerf week after week after week becomes really frustrating. (why i have to change my gear and play-stile for the most optimum performance every week just because someone is ALWAYS whining about thief being OP in one area or the other)
i am really not in the mood to raise another lvl 80 char…

LoneWolfie.1852:

gaspara.4079:

dank.3680:

In my opinion (as a thief player), just adding a 5 ini cost to backstab would change a lot of things.. Sure you keep the initial burst, but then you REALLY do pay for it like people claim (oh I BS then I can’t do anything- BULL).. I can CND/BS repeatedly forever with my build even throwing a heartseeker in after every BS to keep gap closed. It’s a bit cheesy IMO / no I don’t use glass full burst build or use any stuns.

As others have mentioned making it so you can’t pre-cast CND then Steal would make a huge difference as well, it feels cheesy and gimmicky every time I do it.

Anyone who thinks the thief burst doesn’t need tweaked in some way is a poor player who is scared to adapt to a thief that would actually take skill to score kills.

When I can insta-gib a true 80 in wvw and I’m NOT berserker built, SOMETHING is wrong.

BTW – Those who scream oh just get some toughness.. My Mesmer is in FULL Knights gear armor/weapon/trinkets(exotic except for trinkets atm AND I have 25 points down the toughness trait line) and I can still be burst down in one venom by a glass thief.. If my Blink happens to be on CD when I get hit well GG, that is just lame IMO.

First off, but if you blink is on CD you will destroy them basically every time.

Honestly I feel that the only thing that needs to be done is put a .1 second cast on steal so that you can’t precast with it. This would hurt a couple of other precast usages but would force the thief to shadowstep in then have 1 second to cast and land CnD or would force them to use another mechanic to enter stealth or close the gap.

This would effectively force players using the all signets insta-gib combo to drop a signet for either a stealth or gap closer either of which would be on longer cool down than steal.

The main reason why CnD is paired is because the precast time for CnD is atrocious. Even if you shadowstep and hit that CnD it will never hit in time due to lag or miss half the time because the enemy dodges away. Makes me wonder why non-thieves are even trying to suggest solutions which will effectively cripple the thief class.

Wait…

And yet I am a thief ho has stated many times that balances aren’t necessary but if done well wouldn’t ruin the class. I have look at how this would effect the class as a whole and decided that this would cost thieves 1 slot skill which equates to 5% damage for signet builds which is some but wouldn’t greatly hurt other builds with the exception maybe of P/D because they would have to spend more time in harms way.

sogeou.7845:

gaspara why would you balance something that can get done once every 30-45 seconds? That is not the problem. The problem is the game and stats. You need to Nerf crit damage and that will fix all the problems for all classes doing over the top damage. Just like mesers and engies and warriors.

Because that is all the insta-gib builds that people are complaining about are, inst-kill on a squishy every 40 seconds. Based on the ANet posts they clearly feel that is too much so I came up with the way that would least ruin more balanced builds.

I would agree to steal interrupting cast and i think the same should go for any skill that isn’t simply a blink but also has some secondary effect such as dmg or condition. It would make the combo harder to execute which is what everyone is arguing about

I play a thief and I’m very very very very happy to hear thief damage is getting toned down. I’m pretty sure this glass cannon 1 trick pony build will go away as fast as the 100 blades build did for warriors. Far too many people thought they were good because they could kill someone in 2-3 seconds. It’s about time they get a reality check.

I’ve seen several well documented complaints from professions with quite a bit of armor where they received within 3-4 hits up to 20k damage. If you cut that damage in half, that’s still a huge burst for a few seconds but at least it would be a step forward.

The current state of the backstab thieves doesn’t affect me personally. If you pay attention and are ready for it, you can counter them in most cases, however the numbers are just absurd and it ruins the fun in PvP at lower levels.

The way I see this situation is that a thief, if he lands all of his abilities should go through roughly 20-30 points of initiative before killing someone that’s wearing gear with at least 1 defensive trait such as Vitality or Toughness.

The only issue that I see with the upcoming nerfs is that it could ruin some builds that aren’t pure glass cannons. For example right now, as a double daggers / short bow condition thief, when using daggers there are situations where it’s smarter to use your #1 and #2 abilities over your main damage ability #3. Currently, coming out of stealth as a condition daggers thief it’s still a pretty solid idea to try and go for a backstab as it can hit around 800-1200 (Carrion Gear – power/cond/vit). It’s also still a pretty good idea to use your #2 skill if your opponent is under 25% or around there as it can still hit around 1200-1800. A nerf aimed at toning down backstab thieves could ruin other builds and make them super boring. In my case, if the damage of the #1 and #2 abilities got nerfed it could mean that there’s no point in using them at all in the examples above and it would make the whole build super boring as just a #3 spam.

While backstab cannon glass thieves need a pretty big nerf, it needs to be done in such a way where it doesn’t ruin already existing balanced builds. I’m not sure how damage currently scales, but it might be a good idea to try an approach where it scales as a curve, similar to toughness. The more you get, the less good it gets, pushing people perhaps towards picking up different traits and stats not just damage boosters.

Really looking forward to seeing your decision!

STRanger.5120:

Well, in that situation, I was killed by a staff Elementalist as he just looked at me, nerf them!!!!
/irony
Show proof or get lost, I can make things up too….

Are you serious? I checked my combat log and rolled my eyes. Why should I screenshot something that happens often enough that it’s not surprising?

Tbh, when I was looking at my log I was most curious about how much damage the Thief did in excess of my HP, and that CND+Mug+Air by itself could take most of my HP, nevermind the actual 18k backstab.

If you want to argue that the damage is fine, then you have an uphill battle but at least there would be a discussion. However, being blind to the normal glass cannon damage levels in WvW just means you’re ignorant and wasting board space.

Edit: And like I said, Warriors can exceed 20k with single attacks like HB cheese or Kill Shot alone. However, those capabilities are not instant and are far more telegraphed. Hence, they can be dealt with even with how cheesy they are.

The only issue that I see with the upcoming nerfs is that it could ruin some builds that aren’t pure glass cannons.

Totally agree with this, hence my recommended changes which would more or less improve general thief builds and QOL/usability while spacing out the actual broken combo.

Would definitely be in favor of trading the damage for survivability in hopes that the upcoming change will still make D/D viable.

I do find it funny however the amount of condition and survival thieves mentioning they have “no problem” fighting the current D/D spec but would like to see it nerfed.

People keep saying wvw this, wvw that. Balance should least of all revolve from wvw, in fact I hope it does not at all. In WvW one can run around with 114% crit damage which cannot be done in SPvP.

I am all for a increase in time of the burst, but not a damage nerf, that would be uncalled for. Roll a warrior and you can also burst for 20k+ in about 2 seconds with the help of bulls rush, the elite signet(mostly for the fury, but the might and swift help a lot., frenzy, hundred blades and finish with a weapon switch to eviscerate and they are downed…. and surprisingly people still don’t bring stunbreakers into Spvp…

Should the thief be nerfed to be able to burst slower and with less damage then a warrior can? Of course no, I hope anet also looks at quickness the same time it looks at nerfing the thief’s(they did not specify the thiefs so other classes are likely to be hit, yes I’m looking at you shatter mesmers) burst capability.

LoneWolfie.1852:

gaspara.4079:

dank.3680:

In my opinion (as a thief player), just adding a 5 ini cost to backstab would change a lot of things.. Sure you keep the initial burst, but then you REALLY do pay for it like people claim (oh I BS then I can’t do anything- BULL).. I can CND/BS repeatedly forever with my build even throwing a heartseeker in after every BS to keep gap closed. It’s a bit cheesy IMO / no I don’t use glass full burst build or use any stuns.

As others have mentioned making it so you can’t pre-cast CND then Steal would make a huge difference as well, it feels cheesy and gimmicky every time I do it.

Anyone who thinks the thief burst doesn’t need tweaked in some way is a poor player who is scared to adapt to a thief that would actually take skill to score kills.

When I can insta-gib a true 80 in wvw and I’m NOT berserker built, SOMETHING is wrong.

BTW – Those who scream oh just get some toughness.. My Mesmer is in FULL Knights gear armor/weapon/trinkets(exotic except for trinkets atm AND I have 25 points down the toughness trait line) and I can still be burst down in one venom by a glass thief.. If my Blink happens to be on CD when I get hit well GG, that is just lame IMO.

First off, but if you blink is on CD you will destroy them basically every time.

Honestly I feel that the only thing that needs to be done is put a .1 second cast on steal so that you can’t precast with it. This would hurt a couple of other precast usages but would force the thief to shadowstep in then have 1 second to cast and land CnD or would force them to use another mechanic to enter stealth or close the gap.

This would effectively force players using the all signets insta-gib combo to drop a signet for either a stealth or gap closer either of which would be on longer cool down than steal.

The main reason why CnD is paired is because the precast time for CnD is atrocious. Even if you shadowstep and hit that CnD it will never hit in time due to lag or miss half the time because the enemy dodges away. Makes me wonder why non-thieves are even trying to suggest solutions which will effectively cripple the thief class.

Wait…

Oh wait, I do play Thief… And I don’t use a LOLBURST build. I have a sustained backstab build, which means I do less damage per burst but use CND and Backstab continually during a battle. I am well aware of the cast time of CND, this is where actual skill and awareness comes into the situation so you can land it correctly the majority of the time. “Lag” which is hardly much of a factor in this game, is NOT something to base balance off of and is a lame excuse to boot.

There is actually so much misinformation in this thread that I’ve lost interested in hearing the people that don’t understand the class, its mechanics, or how their traits and stealth work.

Please educate yourselves about the thief before you come in here and try to make a statement on how the thief is OP and should be changed.

Thank you.

Maybe we just need a booming voice (ala Mortal Kombat announcer) to deeply belt out “BACKSTAB!” and “CRITICAL!” a second before it hits. That way, people will know it is coming and dodge.

Maybe we just need a booming voice (ala Mortal Kombat announcer) to deeply belt out “BACKSTAB!” and “CRITICAL!” a second before it hits. That way, people will know it is coming and dodge.

So the booming voice would happen before the player even presses the Backstab button? Or CND or Mug for that matter?

Speaking of which, it would be nice of the beginning of the CND animation were telegraphed better.

At this point why not just remove the class entirely? Because obviously the only way anyone will ever be satisfied is if no one ever plays as a thief.

I have zero faith in AreaNet to balance the classes at this point. May as well just remove all of them except warrior and mesmer.

Shooopa.5632:

At this point why not just remove the class entirely? Because obviously the only way anyone will ever be satisfied is if no one ever plays as a thief.

I have zero faith in AreaNet to balance the classes at this point. May as well just remove all of them except warrior and mesmer.

Right now thieves are far from underplayed… Guess why so many people play thief?

sorrow.2364:

Right now thieves are far from underplayed… Guess why so many people play thief?

I didn’t say they were underplayed. I said no one is ever going to stop kittening unless they’re removed from the game entirely.

The point is that Warrior, Guardian and Rangers do not have the damage output the thief has at the same cheap cost. Probably you haven’t played them enough.
I can faceroll people with just a chain of skills, you can’t do this with Guardians, Warriors or Ranger. Of course there are some builds that needs to be toned down, but it is another topic.

People die to my Warrior inside of a skill chain regularly, and he has 8.5k more health than my Thief, 400 more toughness all the time and 600 more toughness while chilled, cripple, or immobilized, and does just as much sustained damage as my D/P Thief and more sustained damage than my P/P Thief (who also happens to be speced way more offensively than the Warrior). My Warrior can also knock you down, then cripple you which also applies an immob for 1 second and gives him fury, then apply a weakness to you and knock you back, then he can switch to his other set and knock you down again, then spam some damage attacks on you and then when you try to run he can throw bolas at you. If you try to attack you are nearly dead anyway so it doesn’t matter. If a friend shows up to help you I just pop endure pain and finish you off. Oh, and I also have fury up almost all the time. Each weapon set has a cripple which gives me a 1 second immob which also gives me 3 seconds of fury. I have 20% more fury up time thanks to runes. I proc 10 seconds of fury if you hit me for more than 5k or so in one hit, my elite can be popped for 35 seconds of fury, and I have a 5% chance to pop 30 seconds of fury every time you hit me. I have 55% crit, so more like 75% when fury is up.

What is so great about Thief again? Most drop dead in a couple hits. If they get caught in my cc chain and don’t have a stunbreaker available they will die without even touching me.

see, ashanor does not consider thief as imba as others perceived it to be,

my thoughts about nerfing the thief:

they should buff and fix the other classes first,

because if they nerf thief first, and later on buff the other classes, we will be in a state like what Anet did to Rangers.

after Anet and the community determined that all traits and skills are working properly, that is the only time we can proceed to balancing issues

dank.3680:

In my opinion (as a thief player), just adding a 5 ini cost to backstab would change a lot of things

The problem with this “solution” is that it doesn’t really do anything for the problem. The problem is TTK being too low. To put it simply, fights are ending faster than ANet wants them to. Some people have suggested an increase in defense across the board, but simply decreasing the burst potential of combos that result in too-fast fights is the solution they’ve chosen.

Oldgrimm.8521:

they should buff and fix the other classes first

So Anet need to buff 7 classes. But hey, they can just fix thief and bingo x7 less work to do.

@begur

with regards to your statement, are you implying that the other 7 classes SHOULD NOT be fixed, because it is easier to nerf thief per se?

they deserved to be fixed in my opinion, before bashing and giving nerf to one class or the other

“The problem is TTK being too low.”

That’s the problem w/ all of the classes.

Sorry but thieves are balanced in sPvP and tPvP…infact they are kinda underpowered.

Anet does not balance based on WvW…..all the whines are based off WvW

the thing is,

Thief looks sooooo overpowered, Just because the other classes have UNFIXED traits and not working properly,

i bet, like Mesmers, if their phantasms deal an ample amount of damage (because their trait line is bugged/not useful, increase damage to your clones that only deals 30 damage?)

like rangers, that all arrows misses and obstructed for no apparent reason…

etc etc..

generally, again and again, all bugged traits should be fixed before balancing issuues should pugh through.

it is tedious to the game developers, and time consuming, but worth the wait, instead of hotfixing everything.

i should add.,,

this is the only game that i played that my thief moves faster in stealth with the trait line.

i remember the last game that i played they have movement speed penalty whenever they stealth themselves. at max they can only move 60 % of their max speed

sorrow.2364:

Right now thieves are far from underplayed… Guess why so many people play thief?

Ok, I’ll take a stab at it. How about…..

…..because most people can’t be bothered to improve their own gameplay and Thieves take particular advantage of people like that?

Seriously, if Mario Bros. was just coming out for the first time, today’s gamers would just ask the developers to make it easier rather than getting better at playing it. The reason why there are so many Thieves right now is because everyone just comes here and posts about how OP they are instead of going to their own class forum and learning how the pro community deal with them….which is knowledge the pros are generally very happy to share.

Begur.3205:

Oldgrimm.8521:

they should buff and fix the other classes first

So Anet need to buff 7 classes. But hey, they can just fix thief and bingo x7 less work to do.

Not 7 classes, but they should definitely start by buffing Ranger ;-)

SKuDDer.1860:

Again, PvP is vastly different then WvW, stop using that as a comparison. In PvP sure you can see people, because there is limited distance, limited routes that you can travel. Try the same in WvW, you have more paths, more elevation, more obstacles. Not to mention stats in PvP don’t reflect stats in WvW, they are greatly different, then you toss in the effects of orbs, if a thief has 3 orbs game over.

Don’t worry, I will be making some videos tonight. From both the thief doing the damage, and the guardian taking it. To prove the point my build is not glass cannon or squishy, I will show you how I jump into zergs and push their line and have time to retreat.

Why do you keep trying to say they should balance the Thief class for WvW? Who really cares if a class is balanced in an arena where things are meant to be unbalanced? WvW is like PvE and PvP combined. You fight against other players but stuff like boosters and food buffs still work. Not to mention hitting the culling issue (non-invisible invisible Thief) much more often and easily. You can’t know what your opponent has enabled so testing and trying to claim there are balance issues is completely pointless in WvW.

What you need to look at to see if a class is balanced vs. other classes is PvP and what we see there is that this whole thread is a joke. There is no OP backstab issue in sPvP. It just doesn’t exist unless we are talking about inexperienced players.

So you go ahead and take some WvW videos where we don’t even know if your opponents can see you. Maybe you’ll show us your Thief ganking some auto-running enemies who are taking a drink of water? If you actually want to display any kind of valid imbalance, do it in sPvP. I can’t speak for anyone else but I know it would help me take you more seriously.

Jinks.2057:

“The problem is TTK being too low.”

That’s the problem w/ all of the classes.

Absolutely, which is why TTK needs to be increased across the board.

@Oldgrimm.8521
other classes does not possess neither such huge burst, neither such huge amount of charge/escape abilities nor they do has perma invis ~= invul. It is easier to fix one class, intead of adding burst, charges and invul to other 7 classes.

@Judas.5432
“Why do you keep trying to say they should balance the Thief class for WvW?”

Because they are imbalanced (OP) in WWW?

Begur

perma invis ~= invul.

This lack of understanding about how stealth works diminishes the strength of your other arguments. Stealth functions in no way similar to invulnerability.

“Also, easytroll x you are not getting hit for 30k in the game currently. I am gonna tell bus to take away your posting privileges.”

Now I cant vouch for 30k, but I can say I regularly get bursted for over 26k, which results in me dying before I can swing my weapon, or use a single skill.

thats why you must nerf them, i am full vit/tough/pow gear , 18.5k hp and he taken down my hp to 20% in 3,4 sec while i was dodging and using def buffs. screen taken in wvw no one around only me and thief. he was in stealth when he attacked , didn’t killed me because i had luck to pop my spirit hammer and kitten him after that. and he ran away in stealth again.
(i am plate guardian, if he managed to get me like this in 3,4 sec what he could do to some other no plate class)

Ragnarox.9601:

thats why you must nerf them, i am full vit/tough/pow gear , 18.5k hp and he taken down my hp to 20% in 3,4 sec while i was dodging and using def buffs. screen taken in wvw no one around only me and thief. he was in stealth when he attacked , didn’t killed me because i had luck to pop my spirit hammer and kitten him after that. and he ran away in stealth again.
(i am plate guardian, if he managed to get me like this in 3,4 sec what he could do to some other no plate class)

And yet again people forget that you can run with 114% crit damage in wvw, wvw is unbalanced but buffs and nerfs should not be based upon wvw

Judas.5432

Ok, I’ll take a stab at it. How about…..
…..because most people can’t be bothered to improve their own gameplay and Thieves take particular advantage of people like that?
Seriously, if Mario Bros. was just coming out for the first time, today’s gamers would just ask the developers to make it easier rather than getting better at playing it. The reason why there are so many Thieves right now is because everyone just comes here and posts about how OP they are instead of going to their own class forum and learning how the pro community deal with them….which is knowledge the pros are generally very happy to share.

So… You have just admitted that thieves are overpowered.
Every professions has to get better to deal with thieves BUT thieves do not need to get better to deal with other professions. So, as most of the players have noticed, there is no point to put huge amount of efforts into getting better with your profession when you can enjoy easy kills and winning with a thief and, you know, people like easy winning. This is the explanation to the amount of thieves running in sPvP.

I’ve played thieves and I just refuse to play them anymore because of its exaggerated effectiveness and ease of use, but I would enjoy playing them if this profession actually requires weeks of practice and training to get nice results, like other professions such as Necromancers or Elementalists do.

i am talking about spvp too, i play there with guardian have same problems with them they do awesome dmg trying to dodge pop my hammer to back him off but i am at 2k hp max now, so nerf is a must, take their stealth and they can run all day long doing 10k dmg in 2 sec i dont care i will do my dmg to them too, now i cant see him when i see him i am down to 50% hp in 1 sec.

btw i started to play thieves too and i am noob at them and again i kill ppl in matter of seconds. so no skill needed just push buttons. nerf them to normal parameters, or take away their stealth and make them visible to my attacks.

So you want to Nerf 8k damage? Realy?

Tulisin.6945:

This lack of understanding about how stealth works diminishes the strength of your other arguments. Stealth functions in no way similar to invulnerability.

The lack of experience with perma stealth thiefs in www diminishes all other your arguments. I may describe how invis ~= invul, but you will not listen. Enter www and see by yourself.

“So you want to Nerf 8k damage? Realy?”

A lot of times it’s much more than 8k, but more importantly backstab in combination with other skills = instant death. The fact that people don’t even get a chance to react before they die is what’s upsetting people and throwing off balance. I agree, too much emphasis is put on backstab. A number of things have to change in order to balance things out, just a backstab nerf is not the answer.

Begur.3205:

@Oldgrimm.8521
other classes does not possess neither such huge burst, neither such huge amount of charge/escape abilities nor they do has perma invis ~= invul. It is easier to fix one class, intead of adding burst, charges and invul to other 7 classes.

@Judas.5432
“Why do you keep trying to say they should balance the Thief class for WvW?”

Because they are imbalanced (OP) in WWW?

1. re: Bursting Hyper-Mobile Perma-Invis specced Thieves. First, pick one. We only get 70 Trait points and 3 elective skills just like everyone else. There is no mythical 30/30/30/30/30 8-skill Thief as people seem to believe there is. They just encounter multiple Thieves who are specced differently and then assume all Thieves can do all those things. No. We can do great burst damage OR we can by hyper-mobile OR we can be invisible a lot OR we can be semi-good at all 3 with a well rounded build.

Also, invisibility is nowhere close to invulnerability. If you swing a sword and hit us, we take damage. If we take damage, you will see the numbers on your screen(assuming you have the display of such enabled). Use your head and just think about where we would go. I’ll tell you this, most Thieves do not change direction when they use stealth even though they should….though I’ve been known to pull a Maverick (“hit the breaks and he’ll fly right by us”) for a nice free Backstab :-P

2. re: WvW OP Thief: Due to the sheer mobility of the Thief and the extremely large open space of WvW, nerfing Backstab will not change this. I will be the first to admit that a Thief is very powerful in WvW. It’s a perfect setting to ambush and escape. The balance is that a Thief using any kind of Backstab oriented build is a poor damage ally in a group setting compared to the other classes. Think about it, what is this Thief going to do while his allies assault a fort? I’ll tell you; nothing. The Thief will sit there with a shortbow, plunking tiny arrows into enemies who aren’t obstructed while trying not to get hit by the massive AoEs littering the area. They can’t even operate the battering rams.

There’s your balance. Great skirmishers and roamers but skirmishing and roaming doesn’t get your server points. Now they can also try to stop people from capping Supply Depots and even solo the enemy’s Supplies from time to time but, in T1, that doesn’t really happen. I’ve never seen a single Thief stop us from capping a point effectively. Just swarm the area with traps and AoE and the Thief will leave or die.

Ragnarox.9601:

i am talking about spvp too, i play there with guardian have same problems with them they do awesome dmg trying to dodge pop my hammer to back him off but i am at 2k hp max now, so nerf is a must, take their stealth and they can run all day long doing 10k dmg in 2 sec i dont care i will do my dmg to them too, now i cant see him when i see him i am down to 50% hp in 1 sec.

btw i started to play thieves too and i am noob at them and again i kill ppl in matter of seconds. so no skill needed just push buttons. nerf them to normal parameters, or take away their stealth and make them visible to my attacks.

The problem is not only the thiefs aren’t the only ones who can pull off huge numbers, roll a glass warrior and see, I managed to hit 15k with 100b Signet of rage and frenzy proceed to switch and then smack 8k with an evicerate on in spvp, now this burst can be done only every 60 seconds(with traits anyone can do it also)

Now I agree that the rendering even in spvp is bad, I have seen thieves with the backstab build and one memorable example was when I was my team had been fighting (Spvp and its nice zergs…) then came a backstab thief, he pops out haste(for a reason I have absolutely no idea) and thanks to haste being used it, and the fact took the server 2 extra seconds to render him after backstab had been hit the other thief and finished my necro with his shortbow with an invisible opponent.

Begur.3205:

Tulisin.6945:

This lack of understanding about how stealth works diminishes the strength of your other arguments. Stealth functions in no way similar to invulnerability.

The lack of experience with perma stealth thiefs in www diminishes all other your arguments. I may describe how invis ~= invul, but you will not listen. Enter www and see by yourself.

I have no problems with “perma stealth” thieves in WvW. Sword/caltrops + Signet of Malice makes it easy to see when I’m hitting them, keeps them crippled, and allows me to track them around until they either flee or die. Either the thief has enough offense to be dangerous when using heavy stealth and will actually die to being chased by stealth or they’re a high-defense stealther that will be very difficult to kill but need not be feared as long as they’re pressured.

From the perspective of some non-thieves this (“perma stealth”) is an un-counterable tactic, whereas from the perspective of a thief the vast majority of people immediately stop trying to kill the thief and start picking their nose when the thief stealths. If players would stop acting like NPCs in regards to stealth, thieves wouldn’t find it nearly as effective. Stop being stuck in the mindset of “must have a tab-target to do anything” and you’ll do just fine.