Guild Wars 2

STRanger.5120:

Jefzor.7145:

The CnD+Steal combo needs a fix. The backstab damage itself is fine imo.

Any suggestion how to fix it?

Give Steal a 1/4 cast time and don’t let it trigger Venom-type skills (cannot check if it already behaves so).
That way the time the target has to react to this combo goes up from virtually 0 to 0.5-0.75 seconds.

Wouldn’t it be better for steal to cancel cast, that way the thief has to CnD after the steal, giving the target much more time to react. That way they can dodge after getting hit with mug, to completely negate the combo, forcing the thief to actually work for his kill instead of just having to press the finish key once the combo is done.

As a thief you can counter by waiting with CnD until they’ve dodged, and hope they don’t have swiftness up. All in all this will make it much harder for the combo to land, but in return it wouldn’t have to get downgraded damage wise.

DesertRose.2031:

STRanger.5120:

Jefzor.7145:

The CnD+Steal combo needs a fix. The backstab damage itself is fine imo.

Any suggestion how to fix it?

Give Steal a 1/4 cast time and don’t let it trigger Venom-type skills (cannot check if it already behaves so).
That way the time the target has to react to this combo goes up from virtually 0 to 0.5-0.75 seconds.

That would result in usage of Infiltrators signet instead of stealing and stealing usage just as a damaging gap closer.
Maybe it will be better if you actually do some research to the class before suggesting anything (not meant offensively guys).
Also if you give all those shadowsteps a casting time, it will kinda destroy the class I think Also as I said earlier, not only thieves are using this technique (skill + instant teleport to ensure hitting), so it would be kinda unfair, as I remember Anet stated that it is working as intended (not sure, but I think I´ve seen this statement somewhere).

Also there is problem with not-triggering venoms. This is still quite bugged (even signets trigger venoms if I remember correctly).
So I would like to see the class bugs fixed before any balance things are adressed (The same situation with Elementalist, where it is even much worse, but the class was greatly nerfed already…)

@Zsymon

I can argue the same for the Thief.
Thief burst is also very easy to spot and to avoid.
It’s harder to backstab a good player than it is to cheese him in 1.5s with bullHB or call out his CDs/dodges then immob-killshot-volley.

It’s easy to counter both if you are any good – if you aren’t, complaining in the forums won’t do any good to your skills.

So just myth busting some more people.
My overall stat breakdown is the following:
Power 849
Toughness 789
Vitality 521
Precision 739
Crit % Damage 55

This gives me 43% crit chance.
On crit I give allies might, which in turn heals me. On killing a foe I get Virtue of justice back, using this gives allies boons, which in turn heals me. Every 3rd swing of my auto attack heals me and gives allies and myself a -33% damage buff, I use shouts that give allies/myself stability/retailation, and heal/dmg reduction, which in turn heals me.

Looking at the stat breakdown, toughness and vitality mathematically make up 44.36167% of my stats.
Power/Precision/Crit% make up 55.63833%.
So conclusion, almost 50% of my build makeup is for defensive, this != glass cannon, but keep trying to prove otherwise.

If anything you are further proving the point that thieves glass cannon build has too much survivability and needs to be revamped. More dmg should != more survivability. Put a CD on CnD, Remove the stealth or the condition removal on the thief heal. Glass cannon builds like this usually mean you end up dying, which is hardly the case as it stands.

Also, if your comment starts with sPvP, I really don’t want to hear about it. I don’t and never care to play sPvP. This whole thread is based around WvWvW, and yes, it does matter just as much as sPvP. You will never see a thief use this build in sPvP, but it dominates the thief builds in WvWvW

it is NOT our fault we have most of the time 2/3 orbs !
go cry to devs…

DanH.5879:

it is NOT our fault we have most of the time 2/3 orbs !
go cry to devs…

We are. And we hope, devs will remove that nasty orbs from thiefs. Or add them to other professions.

Zsymon.8457:

I’m not lying, rifle warrior is simply not viable for s/tpvp, period. No one who pays a bit of attention will ever get hit by kill shot or by a full volley, there are no skills that are easier to dodge than those two. You see a rifle user crouch, you wait a second, and you dodge, they will never hit, and they have no way to force you to waste your dodges.

I hate to tell you this, buddy, but Thieves are not viable in tPvP at all. Any competent team will shred a Thief to pieces 9 out of 10 times in tPvP.

SKuDDer.1860:

So just myth busting some more people.
My overall stat breakdown is the following:
Power 849
Toughness 789
Vitality 521
Precision 739
Crit % Damage 55

This gives me 43% crit chance.
On crit I give allies might, which in turn heals me. On killing a foe I get Virtue of justice back, using this gives allies boons, which in turn heals me. Every 3rd swing of my auto attack heals me and gives allies and myself a -33% damage buff, I use shouts that give allies/myself stability/retailation, and heal/dmg reduction, which in turn heals me.

Looking at the stat breakdown, toughness and vitality mathematically make up 44.36167% of my stats.
Power/Precision/Crit% make up 55.63833%.
So conclusion, almost 50% of my build makeup is for defensive, this != glass cannon, but keep trying to prove otherwise.

If anything you are further proving the point that thieves glass cannon build has too much survivability and needs to be revamped. More dmg should != more survivability. Put a CD on CnD, Remove the stealth or the condition removal on the thief heal. Glass cannon builds like this usually mean you end up dying, which is hardly the case as it stands.

Also, if your comment starts with sPvP, I really don’t want to hear about it. I don’t and never care to play sPvP. This whole thread is based around WvWvW, and yes, it does matter just as much as sPvP. You will never see a thief use this build in sPvP, but it dominates the thief builds in WvWvW

The reason people keep shifting your argument away from WvW is because arguing that a class should be nerfed because of WvW is rather dumb. I don’t mean this to be offensive (even though I’m aware it sounded that way) but you are talking about nerfing a class what is already underpowered in PvP against any competant player and equally powered in PvE if you use shortbow just because you can’t handle them in a 200v200v200 7 day war where all sorts of items and power-ups can cause inequality at any point in time.

It’s silly to balance a class based on an area where (up until recently) an entire team of 200 can gain a 15% HP bonus and +150 to all stats. How can you equally judge anything in there?

We’ve also had many people come in here and say seeing someone who thinks they are good at Guardian post this makes them sad pandas. Let me agree with that for a moment. As a Thief, Guardians and Engineers are the classes I fear most and will usually go around rather than engage. Engineers are hit or miss depending on their skill level but one who is a skilled grenadier is a nightmare for me. When a guy who says he is a good Guardian comes in and says the class I have the hardest time killing is no good at killing Thieves, I just end up sitting there looking like Psyduck.

Throw in a link to your build (both Thief AND Guardian). Post a video of you killing Guardians easily or being killed by Thieves without any chance of winning. Give us something other than your constant stream of “I assure you, I rock at this game and here are my stats and here’s why I make Thief more godly than Thieves are.” It’s tiresome and I’d love to see a single lick of current date evidence where you can prove to us that (1) you are one of the good players and not just someone who would rather make a class easier to kill than get better at the game, and (2) anything you say is true.

I have yet to see you do either of those things and, added to the already questionable opinion that we should balance classes based on WvW, it really just makes you sound as if you have no idea what you are talking about.

Again, I’m not saying this to insult you and I’m sorry if it’s coming out that way but please, change my opinion. Throw us a bone here because you really just come off as someone who wants the game to be easier so that they don’t have to improve.

Thief is aleady gamebreaking. I know a couple of persons that already stopped to play this game because of that. It ruins the fun for everyone except the thiefplayer and almost 50% of them accept that something needs to be done, actually its quite alot because this stupid kiddy-profession is full of cheesy abillitys.

To be honest it should never have been implemented, like in every other game of this type…

i do quite well against them except the lolol ~15-20k backstab combo. Which has literally no way to counter it.

I hate to fight against them even if i win. I never had the feeling of having a good fight, i just stomped some baddy that plays an oped class.
I hate to play with them i hate to see them and i hate the fact that 50% of the game population plays them.

The simple fact that a lot of people play (and win tounrys with) a thief runs counter to your arguments that thiefs are underpowered, easily countered by a dodge or 20 other skills you list, have low HP, dont bring anything to a team fight etc etc. If that were the case all you thief players wouldnt be playing a thief.

It is not just back stab alone that is the problem, although it does hit for the most. It is as other have said; steal with or without traits (mug/venoms etc) into a cloak and dagger into a back stab followed by a heartseeker. That combo will kill anyone and is very very hard to avoid and happens within seconds, specifically the steal—>cloak and dagger—>back stab part.

Even if that chain is broken the thief has several options, they can stealth and hit you with another back stab into heartseeker, they can dance around you with shortbow skills or dancing dagger both of which put out absurd damage for the utility they bring, or the thief can just run.

Also, we must remember that thieves not only have the potential best burst damage in game and the best stealth options but the best mobility in the game. This makes them extremely deadly as roamers and this is where and how tourny teams employ them. They can roam all over a map jump in kill and stomp someone within seconds of arriving on a point. After they do that they can then sit in the back and blast people with cluster bomb or dancing dagger and wait for the next opportunity to take out an enemy. This is extremely effective when the points are wide open as the defender can not over commit or risk the point.

All that combined with how tournaments are scored, make the thief the most deadliest profession in the game.

Too be fair, it is not just thief bust/stealth/mobility that needs a balance, bunker guard/eles and the burst of certain mesmers and haste in general needs to be worked out as well

so far you only point that the thieves, and not any other builds that have spike dmg.
lets have another WOW pls, by popular demand, where every class is the same.

Every proffesion has great mobility but you don’t want to use it.You run around whitout them.No stun breaks and no mobility options .Just the skills and weapons that do the biggest dent.Name one proffesion that has no mobility options.Rush alone has 1200 range.You’ll eventualy learn that the game is not only about Atack and Defence.Chose wisely what you bring on whit you.

SKuDDer.1860:

So just myth busting some more people.
My overall stat breakdown is the following:
Power 849
Toughness 789
Vitality 521
Precision 739
Crit % Damage 55

This gives me 43% crit chance.
On crit I give allies might, which in turn heals me. On killing a foe I get Virtue of justice back, using this gives allies boons, which in turn heals me. Every 3rd swing of my auto attack heals me and gives allies and myself a -33% damage buff, I use shouts that give allies/myself stability/retailation, and heal/dmg reduction, which in turn heals me.

Looking at the stat breakdown, toughness and vitality mathematically make up 44.36167% of my stats.
Power/Precision/Crit% make up 55.63833%.
So conclusion, almost 50% of my build makeup is for defensive, this != glass cannon, but keep trying to prove otherwise.

If anything you are further proving the point that thieves glass cannon build has too much survivability and needs to be revamped. More dmg should != more survivability. Put a CD on CnD, Remove the stealth or the condition removal on the thief heal. Glass cannon builds like this usually mean you end up dying, which is hardly the case as it stands.

Also, if your comment starts with sPvP, I really don’t want to hear about it. I don’t and never care to play sPvP. This whole thread is based around WvWvW, and yes, it does matter just as much as sPvP. You will never see a thief use this build in sPvP, but it dominates the thief builds in WvWvW

Just a quick fact check on your myth bust… (and by no means exhaustive)

You can’t just add in “crit damage” as 55 lumped in the same as other stats because the item budget is completely different. (Magic Find has the same issue.) You have 25 from gear and 30 from traits. If these were one of the normal stats, they would total up to 652, so you need convert it to 652 instead of 55 in order to compare apples to apples. That puts you more around 63% offensive stats…66% would be 2/3rds. You’re setup decidedly towards offense, although not “glass cannon.”

Kontrolle.3514:

Thief is aleady gamebreaking. I know a couple of persons that already stopped to play this game because of that. It ruins the fun for everyone except the thiefplayer and almost 50% of them accept that something needs to be done, actually its quite alot because this stupid kiddy-profession is full of cheesy abillitys.

To be honest it should never have been implemented, like in every other game of this type…

i do quite well against them except the lolol ~15-20k backstab combo. Which has literally no way to counter it.

I hate to fight against them even if i win. I never had the feeling of having a good fight, i just stomped some baddy that plays an oped class.
I hate to play with them i hate to see them and i hate the fact that 50% of the game population plays them.

This post makes it seem like you know nothing about the mechanics in this game, much less the thief.

I’ve made posts and points that clearly you either ignored or just don’t bother to read because you seemed to have typed this out of your kitten Where is the data that shows 50% of the game pop is Thief? How about the 50% of people that feel something needs to be done? Are you saying half the game plays theif and the other half cries about them being OP?

I think this is the case of what is called the “Vocal Minority”. The same people crying over and over because they don’t want to try.

racecase.1378:

The simple fact that a lot of people play (and win tounrys with) a thief runs counter to your arguments that thiefs are underpowered, easily countered by a dodge or 20 other skills you list, have low HP, dont bring anything to a team fight etc etc. If that were the case all you thief players wouldnt be playing a thief.

It is not just back stab alone that is the problem, although it does hit for the most. It is as other have said; steal with or without traits (mug/venoms etc) into a cloak and dagger into a back stab followed by a heartseeker. That combo will kill anyone and is very very hard to avoid and happens within seconds, specifically the steal—>cloak and dagger—>back stab part.

Even if that chain is broken the thief has several options, they can stealth and hit you with another back stab into heartseeker, they can dance around you with shortbow skills or dancing dagger both of which put out absurd damage for the utility they bring, or the thief can just run.

You bring up all these points. That’s great. Now the same can be done with counters and other classes that have NUMEROUS options on what to do in these situations.

Also, not ALL thieves play BS builds. I bounce between P/P Venom share or P/D Condition build.

On my Ele, i run dual daggers. it has PLENTY of CC to deal with a glass cannon thief.

I don’t know why i keep bothering by posting all these counters and ways of dealing with thieves when hardly anyone reads it because they don’t want to learn how to deal with them, they just want thieves to be useless so they can go ignore them in PVP and whine about the next class they have trouble with.

I am sorry for this, but I am in a good mood and can’t resist.
I missed forums for the whole day and don’t have any will to reply to every qq post personally

lol @ condition thieves making fun of BS thieves… Condition thief is more faceroll than backstab. You can remove everything from your screen except caltrops and your 3 key and still kill a group of people solo. ROFL

Oh then I know more. Thief can also two- or even ONE-shot people when manning ballista. Thieves need nerf definitely

LOCO.1785:

Wreckdum.8367:

lol @ condition thieves making fun of BS thieves… Condition thief is more faceroll than backstab. You can remove everything from your screen except caltrops and your 3 key and still kill a group of people solo. ROFL

Shhh don’t give them anymore nerf ideas plz.

i think it’s a great iteea to nerf that build too, because, at some point in the near 2-3 second future, they will complain about that too, and also be nerfed. any bets?

on topic: i would like the devs to balance other builds too (and the ones from other classes), so we can have an alternative where to go (or we roll mesmers/warr etc. and everybody will be happy)

>nerf all que on steal/blink/etc… it’s rubbish
>fix rendering
>done

I still find my thief very boring though.

Wreckdum.8367:

lol @ condition thieves making fun of BS thieves… Condition thief is more faceroll than backstab. You can remove everything from your screen except caltrops and your 3 key and still kill a group of people solo. ROFL

The forum community is really letting the game down

The whine and crying fests and the ignorance of understanding whats balanced and what is not is crazy

For instance we hear: Theifs can kill you in 2 secs and you cant even see them because of stealth

Whats actually happened is a thief teleported in from Steal from 900range out of nowhere (followed through with the C&D/BS combo) and it has nothing to do with stealth

What we then see is a thread about stealth with the notion that stealth is broken and a nerf cry. To the point where people ask for them to be removed from the game when its not even whats happening.

I did PvE when I hit lvl 44. Since then ive played PvP. 95% of my game time is PvP. Trust me. Thief is not as crazy as all these posts make out which is why i suspect ANET are rather quite about nerfs and stealths because there is actually nothing wrong

The changes made so far are ok. PW is debatable but it does also stun which is kind of ok. You can use it as a heal breaker instead of an opener. People seem to just think as an opening its ruined and therfore not worth using. Thats the wrong type of mindset to have and then bring to the forums.The assassins signet changes hasnt really dont much, but it did calm down the BS a bit

I think thief is bandwagon of the week. People need to look at what Warriors and Mesmers are doing a bit more. Unfortunatley there are quite a few bad mesmers and warriors hiding the good players amongst thier numbers and they are getting much less of the attention

What people need to remember is that stealth in any other MMO is a permanent skill, and in GW2 it has to be chained at a cost of utility or a hit+init. Its not a skill you can just turn on which requires 0% skill what so ever.

WoW: Click a button and your stealthed, forever
GW2: Spend init or get a CD for 4 secs of stealth.

Theres a great deal which good players can achieve against a GW2 stealther.

Going back to the quote, you can see that the player has mentioned a face roll with the word caltrops. He did not mention the other player could simply, walk out of the caltrops….

There are alot of mathematicians on here crunching numbers with the wrong equations. People dont like to factor in CC breakers, or dodges, or walking out of an area effect into thier maths…

At the moment, the community is what needs a buff

I’d love to see how people who complain about mug+cnd+bs combo impossible to counter, deal with, for example, subject alpha in coe.

Wreckdum.8367:

lol @ condition thieves making fun of BS thieves… Condition thief is more faceroll than backstab. You can remove everything from your screen except caltrops and your 3 key and still kill a group of people solo. ROFL

Was that sarcasm? Cause it’s not that hard to let the thief finish his 2-3 DB and wipe conditions and proceed to beat on him as he tries to stealth and wait for his initiative to go back up. Granted they don’t go down nearly as quick as Glass cannons but they clearly don’t “faceroll” like you mention.

On my Warrior…
I deal 22k damage to all people in a line in 2-3 seconds from 1200 range.
I deal 20k AoE damage in 1.5s while also knocking the target down during the whole.
This while having twice my Thief’s health, a lot more armor, 8 sec invul.

Yeah, that’s a bit mindblowing. The mug/cnd/backstab burst that a few people are spamming nerf demands for maxes out at about 12k burst most of the time, if everything hits. And that’s single-target O.O

But arenanet says warriors are balanced… but nerfs thieves who are clearly subordinate to warriors…. If I were an artificial intelligence, I’d have to self-destruct.

bwillb.2165:

On my Warrior…
I deal 22k damage to all people in a line in 2-3 seconds from 1200 range.
I deal 20k AoE damage in 1.5s while also knocking the target down during the whole.
This while having twice my Thief’s health, a lot more armor, 8 sec invul.

Yeah, that’s a bit mindblowing. The mug/cnd/backstab burst that a few people are spamming nerf demands for maxes out at about 12k burst most of the time, if everything hits. And that’s single-target O.O

But arenanet says warriors are balanced… but nerfs thieves who are clearly subordinate to warriors…. If I were an artificial intelligence, I’d have to self-destruct.

Yup. I was just reading the bladetrail thread on the warrior forum and apparently some people are defending it saying it’s working as intended. It’s really disheartening that the few loud mouths crying nerfs are being paid so much attention.

Bladetrail is clearly glitched at the moment. Normally it only crits up to 4k, and that’s near the 10th hit. Problem/glitch is that it keeps getting stronger each time you spam it, allowing to reach uber damage.
edit: its also not supposed to hit more than 5 people like other aoes… obviously not “working as intended”

Theres Only one acceptable thing they could do..
Make Basilisk Venom breakable and to make up for the elite skill , add poison damage to it.That way you wont have anymore excuses for not being able to counter the combo and would make a better elite skill underwater.

Daeqar.8965:

SKuDDer.1860:

So just myth busting some more people.
My overall stat breakdown is the following:
Power 849
Toughness 789
Vitality 521
Precision 739
Crit % Damage 55

This gives me 43% crit chance.
On crit I give allies might, which in turn heals me. On killing a foe I get Virtue of justice back, using this gives allies boons, which in turn heals me. Every 3rd swing of my auto attack heals me and gives allies and myself a -33% damage buff, I use shouts that give allies/myself stability/retailation, and heal/dmg reduction, which in turn heals me.

Looking at the stat breakdown, toughness and vitality mathematically make up 44.36167% of my stats.
Power/Precision/Crit% make up 55.63833%.
So conclusion, almost 50% of my build makeup is for defensive, this != glass cannon, but keep trying to prove otherwise.

If anything you are further proving the point that thieves glass cannon build has too much survivability and needs to be revamped. More dmg should != more survivability. Put a CD on CnD, Remove the stealth or the condition removal on the thief heal. Glass cannon builds like this usually mean you end up dying, which is hardly the case as it stands.

Also, if your comment starts with sPvP, I really don’t want to hear about it. I don’t and never care to play sPvP. This whole thread is based around WvWvW, and yes, it does matter just as much as sPvP. You will never see a thief use this build in sPvP, but it dominates the thief builds in WvWvW

Just a quick fact check on your myth bust… (and by no means exhaustive)

You can’t just add in “crit damage” as 55 lumped in the same as other stats because the item budget is completely different. (Magic Find has the same issue.) You have 25 from gear and 30 from traits. If these were one of the normal stats, they would total up to 652, so you need convert it to 652 instead of 55 in order to compare apples to apples. That puts you more around 63% offensive stats…66% would be 2/3rds. You’re setup decidedly towards offense, although not “glass cannon.”

Well if you want to get technical yes, but then we have to factor in armor as a stat, which I 100% left out to offset the balance of not converting the %damage, heavy armor would probably bring that percentage back down to what I said.

NightyNight.1823:

Theres Only one acceptable thing they could do..
Make Basilisk Venom breakable and to make up for the elite skill , add poison damage to it.That way you wont have anymore excuses for not being able to counter the combo and would make a better elite skill underwater.

Basilisk Venom is breakable

there is so much incorrect information in this thread its not even funny

the pitiful thing is these people are the ones telling us the maths behind why things are broken when the equations are all so very wrong

Wreckdum

lol @ condition thieves making fun of BS thieves… Condition thief is more faceroll than backstab. You can remove everything from your screen except caltrops and your 3 key and still kill a group of people solo. ROFL

Oh God, it’s like a spear thief on land. Truly terrifying…

Meanwhile, in other news: Nobody has a clue what is going on. We simply lack the tools as a species to debate class balance accurately. It is more futile than talking about football.

Having read this debate, all I can say for sure is this: I am levelling a ranger.

jump Efflorescence fatal.3584:

Wreckdum

lol @ condition thieves making fun of BS thieves… Condition thief is more faceroll than backstab. You can remove everything from your screen except caltrops and your 3 key and still kill a group of people solo. ROFL

Oh God, it’s like a spear thief on land. Truly terrifying…

Meanwhile, in other news: Nobody has a clue what is going on. We simply lack the tools as a species to debate class balance accurately. It is more futile than talking about football.

Having read this debate, all I can say for sure is this: I am levelling a ranger.

I’ve been working on a ranger. Kind of dull for my tastes. Think I may drop him and pick the mesmer back up. All the sneaky trickery style of a thief with almost none of the negative attention.

NightyNight.1823:

Webley.1295:

NightyNight.1823:

Theres Only one acceptable thing they could do..
Make Basilisk Venom breakable and to make up for the elite skill , add poison damage to it.That way you wont have anymore excuses for not being able to counter the combo and would make a better elite skill underwater.

Basilisk Venom is breakable

there is so much incorrect information in this thread its not even funny

the pitiful thing is these people are the ones telling us the maths behind why things are broken when the equations are all so very wrong

ohh .. apperantly you’re right.

Updated today; Now counts as stun and stun-breakers work on it.—192.168.104.79 03:24, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Then there…wth is the problem then?take a freakin stun break.
If all thief deserves a buff. 1.5 seconds breakable stun as an elite is a joke.

What, you want some sort of 10 second unbreakable polymorph that can end other classes’ elite transformations? Maybe a 10 second AoE Quickness buff with no negative effects? PFFT get real, thief. You’ll summon a couple of weak clones or spin wildly in hopes that the enemy continues to shoot you, and you’ll like it!

Know what would balance a lot of things? a 1s global cooldown on thief skills since we don’t have cooldowns on our weapons. No longer than that, but that 1s would give people a chance to react while still keeping burst damage high.

time to react? you have plenty of time to react .Its not like you’re unable to move or anything.

Devildoc.6721:

Know what would balance a lot of things? a 1s global cooldown on thief skills since we don’t have cooldowns on our weapons. No longer than that, but that 1s would give people a chance to react while still keeping burst damage high.

global cooldown for a single class is a bad idea. global cooldown for all classes? maybe. Thief isn’t some mystical thing that can use a bunch of skills faster than other classes. In fact, we’re slower overall. Every other class can use at least 8 weapon skills in a row. Thief can use about 3-4 before waiting for regen. Using 8 isn’t always beneficial, but when you have something like the warrior greatsword and rifle, that can get ridiculous.
Besides, they already have time to react. Decent players quite often counter and then steamroll thieves under the current situation.

Devildoc.6721:

Know what would balance a lot of things? a 1s global cooldown on thief skills since we don’t have cooldowns on our weapons. No longer than that, but that 1s would give people a chance to react while still keeping burst damage high.

No global CDs for thief skills thanks.

That defeats the purpose of our initiative system. May as well scrap initiative altogether and give all skills CDs if you’re going down that route… Which I would strongly be against.

Global cooldown is probably the worst mechanic ever invented in gaming.
It completely removes user reflexes and forces him to 1 skill per GCD.
Yeah let’s throw reaction timing down the drain… no.

Anet said they don’t want to do away with the current CD system btw, so don’t even waste time suggesting it.

1s GCD is insanely long anyway, .5s would be the only acceptable GCD and even that is completely unnecessary and a horrible mechanic.

LOCO.1785:

Devildoc.6721:

Know what would balance a lot of things? a 1s global cooldown on thief skills since we don’t have cooldowns on our weapons. No longer than that, but that 1s would give people a chance to react while still keeping burst damage high.

No global CDs for thief skills thanks.

That defeats the purpose of our initiative system. May as well scrap initiative altogether and give all skills CDs if you’re going down that route… Which I would strongly be against.

It’s not even close, 1s would just prevent all the damage from happening at once but still allow you to spam the same skill successive times.

Or 0.5s, I said 1s as the maximum.

See, i don’t see a problem with high backstab damage, but I do see a problem with mug→c&d→backstab all happening in an instant.

See if they got hit by the mug, then dodged out of the C&D, they just countered the thief, didn’t they?

But if mug and C&D can go off simultaneously.. where’s the counter, aside from having precognition to know exactly when a thief is going to steal.

Devildoc.6721:

It’s not even close, 1s would just prevent all the damage from happening at once but still allow you to spam the same skill successive times.

If you want this game to be the same as the other ones (SW:TOR, WoW etc.), why bother, just go and play them.
I play GW because I want class diversity and difference, that´s the biggest pro of this game, you know?

NightyNight.1823:

Another story and no arguments.You totaly proved your point man..thieves are soooo OP.How did it passed me.Wait thieves or BS thieves?You didn’t reffered to any in particular.
ohh so sad.. so sad..my lifes so sad..

And what is one of the most common argument thrown be thieves around here?
“You are bad. Learn to play.” Honestly, a king of all arguments.

Let´s just take away the Stealth completely, rename Thief to Bandit and have backstabs without the need for stealth. People won´t argue because we won´t be mysteriously invisible anymore (which is non-sense befor the whole combo-thing) and they will see us just like other classes (warriors, mesmers etc.). Nobody evidently cares about that we are visible the same way even now (because only an idiot would stealth before the Stealing usage).

@Awe Blizzard have long story of nerfing classes that don’t need nerf,and closing their eyes for classes that need nerf(cough …frost mage… cough).
Anyway this is GW2,and here as always whiners are putting every thief build as Backstab build.And this is sooo wrong.Even with BS(assuming BS combo needs nerf),the problem isn’t in BS itself,more like with C&D+Steal+BS fast execution.

STRanger.5120:

Devildoc.6721:

It’s not even close, 1s would just prevent all the damage from happening at once but still allow you to spam the same skill successive times.

If you want this game to be the same as the other ones (SW:TOR, WoW etc.), why bother, just go and play them.
I play GW because I want class diversity and difference, that´s the biggest pro of this game, you know?

I’m looking at it like this.

The class is going to continually get nerfed, every single patch, as it has been since launch.

There is blood in the water. Arenanet has been giving people the nerfs they want, so people keep asking for them, because they know they’ll get them.

I would rather have a short GCD, than an across the board damage nerf again. A short GCD would prevent all the damage in a spike from happening at once that really only has place in very specific PVP builds but allow thieves who aren’t doing that once a minute instagank build to still be strong.

If they nerf the base damage of backstab, C&D, or mug, realize that it will affect far more than just that once a minute instagank thief in pvp. In fact it’ll affect thieves who use bs WITHOUT using those instagank builds more than it will the instagank builds. It will also impact your actual damage far more than the patch notes say. Pistol whip’s base damage was nerfed by 15%. When you factor scaling with power and weapon damage into it, it was more like 27%, when you factor crit damage into it, it was more like a 40% loss. No joke overnight I went from 10k pistolwhips to 6k. But as people said.. people were still using haste and 2 pistol whips in pvp.. because the nerf hit the wrong target, not the damage output, but the fact that you can haste and land 2 pistol whips in a row in a very short frame of time, the impact on thieves who used the skill in PVE, without haste, was far greater.

I don’t want that happening to backstab thieves. Normal backstab thieves aren’t hitting for 18k. They’re hitting for about 8k, tops, usually more like 5k-6.5k.

I don’t think we have a “no nerfs” option.

At this point our best bet is to try and pick our poison and hope for the best.

I just have to think if there was a short GCD that prevented people from pistol whipping twice while in haste.. would I still be standing there autoattacking as my best source of damage today?

To Anet and fellow players,

I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve had enough of people whinging about Backstab. As you may already know, Backstab is one of the more iconic Thief abilities alongside others such as Steal and our various stealth skills.
You also may already know people complaining “Killed in 4 seconds by Thief” or “Backstab – time to nerf!” I ask that you remind yourselves what it means to play a Thief. It means to be the lone wolf on the battlefield, looking for a delicious meal that has lost its herd.

Apparently too many people seem to ignore that fact seemingly because:
a) They just suck at PvP.
b) Legit rendering issues (NOT plausible grounds for a nerf)
c) They have a bad build and don’t seem to realise it.
d) The opposing Thief is legitimately skilled/geared/glass cannon.

These facts seem to be mainly evidenced on these forums. But let’s say that Backstab does get nerfed. Essentially you’d be taking away the teeth and claws of the wolf and you’d be left with a rabid puppy.
Every class has its defining ability and/or build that causes it to reach its potential. The Backstab build is ours and most thieves (some want it nerfed, they’re crazy) would appreciate it if left alone. We’ve been hit with the nerf stick a lot already and it doesn’t exactly tickle.
If I could suggest anything, it would be to make some kind of media entity (highlighted forum post, news/announcement or even a video) explaining just how flimsy glass cannon Thieves actually are; just so we can silence all the negativity and prove there is balance in the build.

TL;DR Educate the QQ’ers that Backstab builds have their disadvantages so we can stop a lot of the whining.

What I find most ridiculous about threads like this is the “omg kids whine and classes get nerfed durpa durp!”.

Are you kittening serious? You think devs sit at their desk and monitor your forums waiting for “QQ” threads and decide their game balance accordingly?

Get real. These things are in large part decided on vast amounts of statistics. In this case, they see exactly how often BS is used, how much it is doing, how many kills occur because of it, how many thieves use it, if the opponent was able to react, how it compares to other class abilities, etc etc ad nauseum.

All the “whining” threads and all the “my class is fine here’s why” responses mean nothing and in all likelihood are not even read in the first place. You can argue until your face is blue in either direction, it is worthless against pure numbers.

It is almost alarming how self important people are to think any differently, or that the subjective material they post matters at all with respect to game balance.

If you are nerfed, it is because the numbers said your class is OP. If you are not, guess what? Their statistics decided that, not lack of “kids” whining on forums or white knight defenders responding to them.

I think your plea is falling on deaf ears Anagna. We’ve tried saying the class is fine, no nerfs needed since launch.

We get nerfed every single patch.

Devildoc.6721:

STRanger.5120:

Devildoc.6721:

It’s not even close, 1s would just prevent all the damage from happening at once but still allow you to spam the same skill successive times.

If you want this game to be the same as the other ones (SW:TOR, WoW etc.), why bother, just go and play them.
I play GW because I want class diversity and difference, that´s the biggest pro of this game, you know?

I’m looking at it like this.

The class is going to continually get nerfed, every single patch, as it has been since launch.

There is blood in the water. Arenanet has been giving people the nerfs they want, so people keep asking for them, because they know they’ll get them.

I would rather have a short GCD, than an across the board damage nerf again. A short GCD would prevent all the damage in a spike from happening at once that really only has place in very specific PVP builds but allow thieves who aren’t doing that once a minute instagank build to still be strong.

If they nerf the base damage of backstab, C&D, or mug, realize that it will affect far more than just that once a minute instagank thief in pvp. In fact it’ll affect thieves who use bs WITHOUT using those instagank builds more than it will the instagank builds. It will also impact your actual damage far more than the patch notes say. Pistol whip’s base damage was nerfed by 15%. When you factor scaling with power and weapon damage into it, it was more like 27%, when you factor crit damage into it, it was more like a 40% loss. No joke overnight I went from 10k pistolwhips to 6k. But as people said.. people were still using haste and 2 pistol whips in pvp.. because the nerf hit the wrong target, not the damage output, but the fact that you can haste and land 2 pistol whips in a row in a very short frame of time, the impact on thieves who used the skill in PVE, without haste, was far greater.

I don’t want that happening to backstab thieves. Normal backstab thieves aren’t hitting for 18k. They’re hitting for about 8k, tops, usually more like 5k-6.5k.

I don’t think we have a “no nerfs” option.

At this point our best bet is to try and pick our poison and hope for the best.

I just have to think if there was a short GCD that prevented people from pistol whipping twice while in haste.. would I still be standing there autoattacking as my best source of damage today?

I see your point, and from certain point of view, you´re right. But there´s also the other fact, why should Thieves have GCD and other classes don´t? That sound weird to me, actually.

ZLE.8293:

@Awe Blizzard have long story of nerfing classes that don’t need nerf,and closing their eyes for classes that need nerf(cough …frost mage… cough).
Anyway this is GW2,and here as always whiners are putting every thief build as Backstab build.And this is sooo wrong.Even with BS(assuming BS combo needs nerf),the problem isn’t in BS itself,more like with C&D+Steal+BS fast execution.

I always laughed at people wanting nerfs in WoW for PvP…..people seem to forget that the game was PvE focused till Blizzard wanted to push “e-sports”…..never understood why they never separated the PvP and PvE

<3 thief, but I don’t want it to get nerfed to the ground. Hopefully they release a rit in a expansion and I can main that without a complete QQ fest filled forum.