Guild Wars 2

bwillb.2165:

subcrazy.1098:

My ele has 2400 armor and gets hit for 10k+(im not even glass spec, if I was would of been 1 shot for sure.), throw up lighting shield hes stunned in stealth still, but still gets off his other attacks to kill me all in stealth.

Attacking breaks stealth. You’re running into the rendering issues which everyone agrees need to be fixed.

Ya i know, but still 10k on 1 hit is a lil silly i only have 4k hp left after that. Even the 8k hit with 3300 armor is silly. With every spvp having 5- 8 thieves a game pretty soon it will be thief wars.

subcrazy.1098:

With every spvp having 5- 8 thieves a game pretty soon it will be thief wars.

I don´t think so, because if Anet nerf it to the ground (like ppl here are requesting), it will be rather Mesmer Wars…

Kirito.8796:

The ones that dont think it needs a nerf are the ones that use it period. I (being a thief myself) have full carrion exotic armour, green exotic trinkets and traits are 0/0/30/25/15. I got hit for a 4.5k steal, 5k cloak n dagger then an 11k bs, no class should be able to pull off 20k dmg in little over a second.

Haven’t you got the news? If you have less than 3k armor and 27k health you’re obviously a glass cannon and deserve to be one-shotted by a BS Thief. Just run around in a 5-man party, then your teammates can kill the Thief after it one-shotted you… maybe. /sarcasm

Kirito.8796:

You assume that I could see him/that he was coming directly at me. Well, he wasnt. and nice troll defence of your precious bs; “Use blinding powder” (assuming i have pistol off hand, which i dont). “Use thieves guild” which has a longer cast time than the bs combo put together. lol.

fyi blinding powder is an utility skill, not a weapon skill http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Powder

I run a guardian with 3,222 armor and 13k health and don’t get dropped by BS thieves. If you’re not speccing for at least 1 “get-out-of-jail-free” skill on every class u play in a solo pvp then that’s ur fault. An ele dragon tooth/fire grasp can do more dmg than a thief, aoe., with guaranteed crit.

If I’m on BS thief I can win against other BS thieves at least 70% of time, even if I get jumped on first. It’s called acute reaction time.

Daecollo.9578:

A video of a necromancer killing someone from ranged in 1.0 seconds with nearly 0 telegraph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pK6M5rf_8I&feature=BFa&list=HL1352314833

The target is also completely dazed. (cannot do anything.)

This made me laugh.
That build takes way more than 1 second to kill someone, is close ranged and wastes all the skill slots to deal damage. Still, you can see the Necro coming.

Now you thieves have tried everything.
Saying that a Necro has better bursts is most ridiculous excuse you have heard to justify BS damage.

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

A video of a necromancer killing someone from ranged in 1.0 seconds with nearly 0 telegraph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pK6M5rf_8I&feature=BFa&list=HL1352314833

The target is also completely dazed. (cannot do anything.)

This made me laugh.
That build takes way more than 1 second to kill someone, is close ranged and wastes all the skill slots to deal damage. Still, you can see the Necro coming.

Thieves don’t have the dazes/interrupts a necromancer does. (unless they are not a backstab thief.)

sorrow.2364:

Saying that a Necro has better bursts is most ridiculous excuse you have heard to justify BS damage.

I didn´t saw anyone say that, so don´t make things up buddy ;-)
Also this burst performed by the necro is pretty awesome, blindness and daze is really great and totally worth the slightly longer burst time. I bet that Thieves would like to have a daze/blind in their combo for that price (it´s much more difficult to avoid than the actual Thief combo).
Also it works very similarly to the Thief combo (burn the CDs, get a kill and wait until they are back up to repeat). I really don´t see much difference between this and the Thief combo in terms of OPness.

Daecollo.9578:

sorrow.2364:

Daecollo.9578:

A video of a necromancer killing someone from ranged in 1.0 seconds with nearly 0 telegraph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pK6M5rf_8I&feature=BFa&list=HL1352314833

The target is also completely dazed. (cannot do anything.)

This made me laugh.
That build takes way more than 1 second to kill someone, is close ranged and wastes all the skill slots to deal damage. Still, you can see the Necro coming.

Thieves don’t have the dazes/interrupts a necromancer does. (unless they are not a backstab thief.)

What does it mean?
Daze can be stunbreaked, thief burst can’t.

STRanger.5120:

sorrow.2364:

Saying that a Necro has better bursts is most ridiculous excuse you have heard to justify BS damage.

I didn´t saw anyone say that, so don´t make things up buddy ;-)
Also this burst performed by the necro is pretty awesome, blindness and daze is really great and totally worth the slightly longer burst time. I bet that Thieves would like to have a daze/blind in their combo for that price (it´s much more difficult to avoid than the actual Thief combo).
Also it works very similarly to the Thief combo (burn the CDs, get a kill and wait until they are back up to repeat). I really don´t see much difference between this and the Thief combo in terms of OPness.

So why did he posted that video?

You should try to run that build and then make comparisons.

1. It is way harder to use because you have to use all your skill in a specific sequence depending on situations
2. You are completely defenseless. A backstab thief can still rely on Stealth which is way better as defensive mechanic compared to DS.
3. It is easy to predict. As you can see in the video, only the first warrior died fast. The others succeded to survive the burst.
4. It puts all your skills on cooldown. You have absolutely no way to do something except autoattacking.
5. It isn’t repeatable. As a Backstab Thief you can still perform CnD+Backstab after the first strongest burst.
6. You don’t have Heartseeker to finish off people with 6k+ damage.

So yes, they are different in terms of opness.

Also the thief combo ain’t aoe vulnerability / blind / weakness / dmg.

Just wait until WvW teams start really coordinating. In GW1 my team which won Hall of Heroes multiple times would 4-5 person Necro spikes in ~1.5 second which would instantly kill anyone.

Just wait for the mesmer portal/time warp+ guardian sanctuary + necro bomb combos at WvW. Nerf nerf nerf.

This game has balances towards solo pvp and group pvp. If you do not even explore the reaches of coordinated team work in relation to build power than we’re only talking about possibly a limited viewpoint of balance in the game.

There’s a reason why there’s a highly developed guild system in the game. To coordinate efforts and take advantage of group synergy. Can’t really complain when everyone is running solo builds n runnin around like chickens with their heads nobbed off.

subcrazy.1098:

I made a ranger with 3300 armor and still get back stabbed for 8k+ which is half my hp in one hit.

My ele has 2400 armor and gets hit for 10k+(im not even glass spec, if I was would of been 1 shot for sure.), throw up lighting shield hes stunned in stealth still, but still gets off his other attacks to kill me all in stealth.

How do you manage to get hit for that much when I get hit for ~8k max in full burst gear? Warriors should hit you harder with killshot and such then.
http://i.imgur.com/vPegl.png

With proper usage of mathematics you can predict quite well what the relative power of different options are.

In a diverse playfield where the different pieces rely on vastly divergent mechanisms of play, balance is in no way a straightforward thing to arrive at mathematically.

The system isn’t even linear.

The notion of “balance” always depends, to an amount, on unpredictable variables which are dictated by a metagame.

One day we will evolve a branch of combined mathematics and simulationary science that properly predicts the competitiveness of differing participants in a game, be it a video game or otherwise.

Games—games that sell, that is, and games other than chess—will be big enough, one day, to reward the expenses of serious research and accommodate the hefty salaries of high-end mathematicians.

Until then, however, the only working solution is using real, human players to simulate the game, as they happen to be remarkably good at this sort of stuff.

And oh, hello. That would be us.

sorrow.2364:

1. It is way harder to use because you have to use all your skill in a specific sequence depending on situations

basilisk venom→assassin’s signet→CnD→mug→backstab, while being behind your target. all their skills, in a specific sequence, depending on situations. your point here is invalid.

2. You are completely defenseless. A backstab thief can still rely on Stealth which is way better as defensive mechanic compared to DS.

a thief can’t rely on stealth, because of the cooldown period after dealing damage from stealth. your point here is invalid, and a flat out lie

3. It is easy to predict. As you can see in the video, only the first warrior died fast. The others succeded to survive the burst.

if a thief gets behind you, it’s extremely easy to predict what will follow, and after they finish of their first target, that target’s buddies will kill the thief. your point here is invalid

4. It puts all your skills on cooldown. You have absolutely no way to do something except autoattacking.

as has been stated countless times, the necromancer is considered to be UNDERpowered. which is the level you wish to bring thieves down to. not balanced. under powered. which means……. your point here is invalid, and extremely transparent.

5. It isn’t repeatable. As a Backstab Thief you can still perform CnD+Backstab after the first strongest burst.

there is a cooldown period on stealth. apparently, you never got the memo. so a theif can’t just keep CnD+backstab after their first strong burst. your point is invalid, and once again, a flat our lie.

6. You don’t have Heartseeker to finish off people with 6k+ damage.

dodge? you have two of them, since you obviously didn’t use one to avoid the backstab combo. use them. thief’s drained of initiative, and is a sitting duck. go kill him. so once again, your point here is invalid.

So yes, they are different in terms of opness.

yes. one has stealth, and stealth scares you. so you wage a personal war against it. the other is capable of the same damage, but doesn’t have stealth, so it gets a free pass. you’ve made it clear that you’ll wage a personal war against the stealth based class, and since you’ve continually pointed out that “you can see the other classes coming” it’s very obvious that your problem lies with stealth and nothing else. you’ve even gone as far as to make countless strawman arguments, and even flat out lie to push your agenda across. the fact is, you don’t like stealth. well, too bad. this game isn’t going to cater to your phobia. no matter how many weak and flawed arguments you present in order to get your own way.

and, for the record, i DON’T play a glass cannon thief. i’d prefer not dying to a strong breeze. so i built my thief for balance. i’ve only ever been killed by two glass cannon thieves. once because i wasn’t paying attention to my surroundings, and opened myself up to being ambushed. the second time was because i was trying to run past them to get to better positioning. i exposed my back, and they capitalized on it. both times were MY fault. i didn’t cry or throw a temper tantrum because they killed me. i’m an adult. i looked at what i did wrong, and made sure i didn’t do that again. i learned from my mistakes and i improved. give it a try some time, and you might actually be happy with the results.

Begur.3205:

NightyNight.1823:

Every proffesion has great mobility but you don’t want to use it. Name one proffesion that has no mobility options.

Name great mobility options for guardian please.

First off, Guardians aren’t designed for mobility. Most of their abilities are designed to immobilize their opponents or prevent them from escaping.

Second and more to your question:

Leap of Faith
Flashing Blade
Judge’s Intervention
Merciful Intervention

These are all mobility options that Guardians have. The last two can be picked up by way of utility slots. But again, Guardians are designed to immobilize, knockdown or prevent enemies from escaping.

Apples and oranges.

Phantom.8130:

post

Oh good, someone who knows the truth and is a bit better at the art of debating

i dont understand, i as a condition build thief with 3.3k armor and 18khp (in mists) i eat bs builds easly. and they can’t kill me too easy either. so, where is the problem here?
you die in 2 seconds in wvw? how bout i dont care about your WvW fights ? (you use bonuses/eat stuff which is not balanced in the first place if you have none)
the ONLY thing where you can complain is random pvp in mists or spvp.end. and NO, bs doesn’t hit 10k+ on light even maxed out

If thief gets nerfed then MOA shape change from mesmer should get nerfed. 10s is way too long to be running around as a bird with no attack or defense.

bwillb.2165:

Phantom.8130:

post

Oh good, someone who knows the truth and is a bit better at the art of debating

when the majority of the posts are nothing more than “waaaaahhh! stealth is icky! make it go awaaaaaay!” it makes it bit easier to counter them. i just had to remain quiet and watch the situation until i was sure that was the case. and, like in every other game that has a stealth based class, it is.

So Anet wants Guild Wars’s 2 spvp to be taken seriously yet they are going to start balancing the game around WvW? Where there buff, bunch of Aoe flying around and not to mention where armor really counts?

Yeah that makes a senses. Seriously the from one Guardian to an other the OP just bad really bad, all I have to is take out my hammer to take care of the noob BS thief running around in WvW.

If Anet wants spvp to go any where they should stop balancing around WvW then.

swinsk.6410:

If thief gets nerfed then MOA shape change from mesmer should get nerfed. 10s is way too long to be running around as a bird with no attack or defense.

Yeah I’m not sure who thought a 10 second CC would be a good idea, when most other CCs only last like 1-2 seconds…

Jestersmiles.4365:

So Anet wants Guild Wars’s 2 spvp to be taken seriously yet they are going to start balancing the game around WvW? Where there buff, bunch of Aoe flying around and not to mention where armor really counts?

Why do you think 14-16k damage in less than a second against a medium armored target with next to no visual tell is balanced in sPvP but not in W3?

Phantom.8130:

basilisk venom->assassin’s signet->CnD->mug->backstab, while being behind your target. all their skills, in a specific sequence, depending on situations. your point here is invalid.

You don’t get the point.
As a Backstab thief, the combo is always that. You can vary it using CnD->Backstab when other skills are on cooldown, but there isn’t so much variation about that.
I hope that before you came here to say that my point is invalid you have at least tried the build in question. Using skills in the same exact sequence in every situations make the build uneffective. This is not the case of Backstab.

a thief can’t rely on stealth, because of the cooldown period after dealing damage from stealth. your point here is invalid, and a flat out lie

So, 3 seconds of revealed means that Thieves can’t rely on Stealth at all? They can easily leave the fight if the burst doesn’t kill the target by using just one skill, which is kinda OP when used on an instant-kill build.
Necros haven’t that option, once they engaged a fight, they have no way to leave it.

Phantom.8130:

if a thief gets behind you, it’s extremely easy to predict what will follow, and after they finish of their first target, that target’s buddies will kill the thief. your point here is invalid

See above.
You won’t see a thief getting behind you. The time which passes between Steal and CnD is almost non-existent. Then you’re immobilized and you have no way to avoid the backstab.
You haven’t neither the time to figure out the weapon set of the thief that you are dead or with less than 30% hp.

If you failed the burst, anyway, you just have to survive for 3 seconds and then you are able to stealth again and leave the fight. Otherwise you are still able to use Infiltrator’s Arrow.

Phantom.8130:

as has been stated countless times, the necromancer is considered to be UNDERpowered. which is the level you wish to bring thieves down to. not balanced. under powered. which means……. your point here is invalid, and extremely transparent.

I don’t get it.
I know Necromancer is underpowered, but looks like people here want to compare him to thieves, thats why I’m arguing here.

Phantom.8130:

there is a cooldown period on stealth. apparently, you never got the memo. so a theif can’t just keep CnD+backstab after their first strong burst. your point is invalid, and once again, a flat our lie.

3 seconds? So 3 seconds of revealed can be considered an actual cooldown?
That build posted has at least 38 seconds of cooldown, more if untraited, thanks to Wells, which are the main source of damage.
38 >> 3, you know.
Still, CnD+Backstab only can deal ~11k damage, which is more than the damage both the wells can deal in 5 seconds.

Phantom.8130:

dodge? you have two of them, since you obviously didn’t use one to avoid the backstab combo. use them. thief’s drained of initiative, and is a sitting duck. go kill him. so once again, your point here is invalid.

Do you know how much initiative does HS cost? 3. You are going to have 6 initiative after the combo, 8 if you used the minor Shadow Arts trait. You can use 2-3 heartseeker in a row.
Do you know which is the casting time of HS? 3/4
It is just a matter of time, you are going to die from an heartseeker. You can dodge the first, but 2-2-2 will still hit you.
Don’t forget that you are still under immobilization thanks to venom.

Obviously you are considering the case you are with full initiative when the fight against the thief starts, probably an 1vs1, which rarely happens in GW2.

Phantom.8130:

cut

It is a matter of balance, dude. We are talking about balance, not about how to deal with a specific profession. I played 2+ months, I’ve found the way to counter thieves, of course.

The point is Thieves have the better effectiveness/effort ratio. Their damage is outstanding compared to other professions and it is all concentrated in few, fast casting skills. This is unbalanced.
Most high-damage skills are on an high casting time, high drawbacks, high requirements, high visibility. Only thief stands out for its burst which have no negative aspects.
People who have forced them to get better into their profession have rerolled thief and found an easy route to win, that what I’m waging a personal war against.
I want that every professions requires practice to be good at and that a good player will always wins against a bad player, which clearly isn’t the case of Guild Wars 2 at this moment. Is this asking too much?

Of course people here feels offended by those nerfs, because most of them found out that thief is the only profession they are good at and, once the nerf bat has spoken, they will realize that all their goodness is gone.

Geiir.7603:

You have 16,000 health… Even my thief has more (21,000).

The thief doing 8000 dmg in one hit has only that one hit. He’s probably a glass cannon, which makes him pretty easy to defeat. My condition thief rarely die, and if I do it’s because I didn’t pay attention to the battlefield and opponents. I eat other thieves for lunch.

Really !
what about the screens of 20k and 18k backstab in one hit ?
are you really gonna tell me that’s not broken beyond the realm of normal ?
and let’s not forget these hits are from stealth people !

my warrior’s kill shot hits for 12k if I’m insanely lucky and no one sees the huge kitten telegraph and don’t dodge out of my 2 second cast time on top of the telegraph kneeling move.

sorrow.2364:

You don’t get the point.
As a Backstab thief, the combo is always that. You can vary it using CnD->Backstab when other skills are on cooldown, but there isn’t so much variation about that.
I hope that before you came here to say that my point is invalid you have at least tried the build in question. Using skills in the same exact sequence in every situations make the build uneffective. This is not the case of Backstab.

your initial point, was that it took all of their skills, in a specific sequence, and depended on the situation. i countered your point with the truth that the same conditions apply to the thief, and now you’re moving the goalposts to complain about something else entirely.

So, 3 seconds of revealed means that Thieves can’t rely on Stealth at all? They can easily leave the fight if the burst doesn’t kill the target by using just one skill, which is kinda OP when used on an instant-kill build.
Necros haven’t that option, once they engaged a fight, they have no way to leave it.

3 seconds is all you need to kill a glass cannon thief. they have no defense and the lowest HP possible. just use your auto-attack and you’ll get them down to near death.

See above.
You won’t see a thief getting behind you. The time which passes between Steal and CnD is almost non-existent. Then you’re immobilized and you have no way to avoid the backstab.
You haven’t neither the time to figure out the weapon set of the thief that you are dead or with less than 30% hp.

If you failed the burst, anyway, you just have to survive for 3 seconds and then you are able to stealth again and leave the fight. Otherwise you are still able to use Infiltrator’s Arrow.

no. YOU won’t see a thief getting behind you. i have positional awareness and know how to keep my back safe. coincidentally, i do fine against glass cannon thieves, while you wage a war against them on the forums.

I don’t get it.
I know Necromancer is underpowered, but looks like people here want to compare him to thieves, thats why I’m arguing here.

so you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing? good to know.

3 seconds? So 3 seconds of revealed can be considered an actual cooldown?
That build posted has at least 38 seconds of cooldown, more if untraited, thanks to Wells, which are the main source of damage.
38 >> 3, you know.
Still, CnD+Backstab only can deal ~11k damage, which is more than the damage both the wells can deal in 5 seconds.

with no defense and the lowest HP possible, 3 seconds is an eternity. and once again, you’re comparing them to necromancers, which are considered to be UNDER powered.

Do you know how much initiative does HS cost? 3. You are going to have 6 initiative after the combo, 8 if you used the minor Shadow Arts trait. You can use 2-3 heartseeker in a row.
Do you know which is the casting time of HS? 3/4
It is just a matter of time, you are going to die from an heartseeker. You can dodge the first, but 2-2-2 will still hit you.
Don’t forget that you are still under immobilization thanks to venom.

do you know how much intiative a thief gets? 12, that can be traited up to 15. CnD costs 6. HS costs 3. 6+3+3=12. thief is out of initiative. if they’ve traited, they have one more HS left available to them. so you only have to deal with 1. if you aren’t a glass cannon yourself, you can heal and deal with it. and the venom was drained in the initial combo, so NO, they’re NOT still under immobilization. stop lying.

Obviously you are considering the case you are with full initiative when the fight against the thief starts, probably an 1vs1, which rarely happens in GW2.

oh. so they’d have even LESS initiative to work with, meaning they couldn’t even get off the extra heartseekers. so their initiative runs out sooner, making them even easier to kill.

condescending rant

i think i’ll just counter you with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ru_rXq2LYg0

sure, it’s WvW, but 13k, 17k, and 24k damage to 3 separate targets in a single attack seems to be quite a bit higher than anything a thief can put out even against a naked guy who’s afk. and as far as effort goes? the guy has a 1500 range, struts around casually, and picks 3 people off at a time. so yeah, that’s quite a bit less effort than anything the thief requires.

and for the record, the thief can only do their burst combo once every 60 seconds. whereas this guy can pop his off every 15, including casting time. so go to the warrior forums and wage your war there. they’re clearly able to do exactly what you claim to be opposing far better than thieves ever could, and with far less effort. only, they don’t have stealth, so i’m guessing you’ll say they’re perfectly balanced, and continue to wage your war here.

Latinkuro.9420:

Geiir.7603:

You have 16,000 health… Even my thief has more (21,000).

The thief doing 8000 dmg in one hit has only that one hit. He’s probably a glass cannon, which makes him pretty easy to defeat. My condition thief rarely die, and if I do it’s because I didn’t pay attention to the battlefield and opponents. I eat other thieves for lunch.

Really !
what about the screens of 20k and 18k backstab in one hit ?
are you really gonna tell me that’s not broken beyond the realm of normal ?
and let’s not forget these hits are from stealth people !

my warrior’s kill shot hits for 12k if I’m insanely lucky and no one sees the huge kitten telegraph and don’t dodge out of my 2 second cast time on top of the telegraph kneeling move.

Alot of those “screens” were with the bugged +50% critical damage rune bug and prenerf “150% damage” assassins signet together.

Thieves abused it the most.

Triple orbs.

Let’s say Max runes of divinity = 12% crit dmg.

Berserker set 80 jewelry (2 rings, 2 earrings, 1 amulet + berserker jewel on each) = 12 + 12 + 8 =32 % crit dmg bonus.

17 stacks of might (1 guardian buff + assassin’s signet)

Berserker Pearl Carver = (5% crit + 3% more from jewel) = 8%

Butternut Squash Curry food – 10% crit dmg and 100 precision. Or how about Truffle Steak Dinner with 200 power bonus and 10% crit bonus.

That’s a total of 40% crit bonus from equip in full zerker (50% total with food). In Tpvp it’s capped at 20% from all accessories/armor.

Now you can have a serious discussion on balance besides “Ohh so much damage from thief, no fair”. What about a defy pain zerker warrior porting in, AOE just as much dmg, and port out, killing 4-5 people instantly?

You guys aren’t even gracing the depths of strategy involved. A large % of people’s perception of the metagame is so young and informed.

Backstab, and thieves in general, are not OP in any way. Only the worst players are the ones posting on the forums about getting instantly killed before they even knew what happened, or thieves being in “perma stealth”.

Good players aren’t having problems any more after the assassin’s signet nerf, which was a bit much 1 on 1. Now, unless you’re not specced/geared properly, not paying attention, and need to practice your profession, you shouldn’t be getting killed instantly.

I’m seeing more and more people in sPvP that have learned how to deal with thieves, and not just bunker specced players. It’s actually pretty rare for me to cnd > steal > bs unsuspecting players and have them go down in under 2 seconds like they used to. Now people are dodging better, have defensive abilities ready to go, and are learning how to cc/kite me. If someone is bunker spec, and they know what they’re doing, they win, period. Guardians, engineers, mesmers, necromancers, and even elementalists can beat thieves with ease now. If you’re not laughing at 3/4 of the thieves that attack you in sPvP, you need to l2p. (Yes, I also play a guardian and elementalist)

Anet, don’t listen to all the QQ on the forum. We’re talking hundreds of individual complaints out of MILLIONS of players. Only the worst players are the ones complaining on the forums, and they should not be catered to.

As a dreaded (nearly) glass cannon bs thief in a 5 man group I can tell you 90% of my kills come from green arrows (<80s) or classes that tend to be in glass cannon specs. I dont even waste time popping guardians, necros and warriors without a greatsword. Im not going to kill them and all my stuff will be on cooldown.

1v1 is another issue…the rendering bugs need to be fixed. Thief v thief fights can get pretty silly with both people running around swinging at air.

DesertRose.2031:

Jestersmiles.4365:

So Anet wants Guild Wars’s 2 spvp to be taken seriously yet they are going to start balancing the game around WvW? Where there buff, bunch of Aoe flying around and not to mention where armor really counts?

Why do you think 14-16k damage in less than a second against a medium armored target with next to no visual tell is balanced in sPvP but not in W3?

I rarely see BS thief’s in tPvP and I am pretty sure BS got nerfed already so I doubt the damage in pugs it even that high anymore.

Seriously what do you people want thief’s to do? People cried about Assassins in GW1 who had no stealth, and yet people cried about it.

Seriously nothing but cry babies.

Heck why start with backstab. All you have to do is be in range to do this:
http://i.imgur.com/O3e05.jpg

I have a fully geared 80 thief also. It’s a joke.
I went full condition spec p/d with him just to get away from doing this nonsense to other players.

“But you’re a glass cannon you’re supposed to die in .5 seconds!”
Who else can do this? All this fellow had to do was have me targeted and hit two buttons. That’s it.
The rest is instant.

How many other glass cannon classes run around right now? Very few. And they will not until they know they can actually play in WvW and not be instantly killed by one of the 100 thieves on the map at any given time doing this.

Notus.5769:

Heck why start with backstab. All you have to do is be in range to do this:
http://i.imgur.com/O3e05.jpg

I have a fully geared 80 thief also. It’s a joke.
I went full condition spec p/d with him just to get away from doing this nonsense to other players.

“But you’re a glass cannon you’re supposed to die in .5 seconds!”
Who else can do this? All this fellow had to do was have me targeted and hit two buttons. That’s it.
The rest is instant.

How many other glass cannon classes run around right now? Very few. And they will not until they know they can actually play in WvW and not be instantly killed by one of the 100 thieves on the map at any given time doing this.

Again crying about WvW argument invalid. Go do that in paid tpvp then come to me about any class being op.

Notus.5769:

Heck why start with backstab. All you have to do is be in range to do this:
http://i.imgur.com/O3e05.jpg

I have a fully geared 80 thief also. It’s a joke.
I went full condition spec p/d with him just to get away from doing this nonsense to other players.

“But you’re a glass cannon you’re supposed to die in .5 seconds!”
Who else can do this? All this fellow had to do was have me targeted and hit two buttons. That’s it.
The rest is instant.

How many other glass cannon classes run around right now? Very few. And they will not until they know they can actually play in WvW and not be instantly killed by one of the 100 thieves on the map at any given time doing this.

Did you even watch that Warrior sniper video?

And you’re complaining about backstab thieves? lol

I know there is a lot of posts in this thread but even if you just go up and read that last few posts i’m sure you’d learn something. I run P/D thief, a Warrior, and an Ele and I have NO problem what so ever with BS thieves. If i die against one, it’s because i did something stupid.

I only see kids crying because they can’t play good enough. I always play against different clases and what I see is… the skilled player is always on top. Sometimes it is a warrior or guardian sometimes a glass cannon thief… . Stop crying and learn to play

Phantom.8130:

your initial point, was that it took all of their skills, in a specific sequence, and depended on the situation. i countered your point with the truth that the same conditions apply to the thief, and now you’re moving the goalposts to complain about something else entirely.

Nope, my initial point was that the combo/sequence depends on situations, not the case of thieves though. CnD+Backstab is always the combo. You won’t have the problem to daze someone who is rezzing, stripping stability to a guardian, immobilize a thief, fear someone who is bursting you down, pump the damage with Life Blast and so on. CnD+Backstab is more, more than enough to burst down anyone if coupled with Heartseeker.

At least get the point before answering in that rampant manner.

Phantom.8130:

3 seconds is all you need to kill a glass cannon thief. they have no defense and the lowest HP possible. just use your auto-attack and you’ll get them down to near death.

Seriously? No profession can kill someone in 3 seconds unless when using some burst combo which usually are on long cooldown. But it doesn’t matter, since as far I know, thieves have dodge too.
If you couple this with the rendering issues going around, then you see the full picture.

Phantom.8130:

no. YOU won’t see a thief getting behind you. i have positional awareness and know how to keep my back safe. coincidentally, i do fine against glass cannon thieves, while you wage a war against them on the forums.

As I stated before, I can also survive to bad backstab thieves.
But it doesn’t mean that bad backstab thieves aren’t harder to counter compared to bad necromancer, bad elementalist or bad engineer and that bad thieves are way more effective as they should compared to bad x profession.

Balancing isn’t about counterability.
Overpowered doesn’t mean unbeatable.
Get this straight before arguing.

Phantom.8130:

so you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing? good to know.

Have you seen the post I was answering before entering in the argument?
It doesn’t look like.

Phantom.8130:

with no defense and the lowest HP possible, 3 seconds is an eternity. and once again, you’re comparing them to necromancers, which are considered to be UNDER powered.

3 seconds is low also if you have an HP pool of 5k. A dodge is more than enough to mitigate the damage and survive for 3 seconds.

Read above.

do you know how much intiative a thief gets? 12, that can be traited up to 15. CnD costs 6. HS costs 3. 6+3+3=12. thief is out of initiative. if they’ve traited, they have —- cut

If you are healing, you aren’t dodging HS.
So, what is best, dodge spamming and getting killed anyway by some lucky HS or being killed because you tried to heal? Anyway you can’t dodge while under immobilization, so…

The player is still under immobilization.
Devourer Venom immobilizes for 2 seconds for 2 hits. Since Immobilization stacks in duration, there is a total of 4 seconds immobiliziation.
Does the time between Steal and HS spamming more than 4 seconds? I think no.
Also if Immobilization was bugged, 2 seconds are more than enough to get at least 1 hs landed.
You should stop lying.

Phantom.8130:

oh. so they’d have even LESS initiative to work with, meaning they couldn’t even get off the extra heartseekers. so their initiative runs out sooner, making them even easier to kill.

Have you actually played tPvP where thieves are roamers? They enter already engaged fights with full initiative and clean out for sure one of the pretenders of a node.
Considering also that thief profession encourage hit-n-run gameplay, there are so few the situation you are starting a combo with less than maximum initiative.

Phantom.8130:

bs

You are joking right?
You have taken a video of a guy hitting for high numbers in WvWvW against upleveled people using a skill that requires at least 15 seconds (way more in reality) to be built up and has 2 seconds casting time in which you are clearly visibile to prove thieves bursts are fine?

Have you at least any idea on how much does backstab combo hits in sPvP/tPvP, not that WvWvW with 10+ buffs in the same moment?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plkM40HP54U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El8VchCccDs

You can see here many 13k+ bursts, just to say. And this is sPvP.

So, at the end, thieves have, compared to warrior:
- Less skill preparation: once you entered a fight you are able to use your combo
- Less casting time
- Less visibility
- Higher damage
- Less ease to counter

So if I have to struggle for balance sake, I’m going to fight my war here.

Jestersmiles.4365:

I rarely see BS thief’s in tPvP and I am pretty sure BS got nerfed already so I doubt the damage in pugs it even that high anymore.

Seriously what do you people want thief’s to do? People cried about Assassins in GW1 who had no stealth, and yet people cried about it.

The Assassin in GW1 was horribly designed: Shadowsteps neglected position play and the lead-, off-hand-, dualattack mechanic forced you to use their skills in a specific order; that means playing an Assassin in GW1 boiled down to pressing 1-2-3-4-5 every 20-30 seconds and playing the Monk on the opposing team to cast PS, Guardian or another protection spell within a second on the target the Assassin just teleported to.
Assassin were simply broken, when they were on a par with Warriors they were OP because it was lol-easy to play them and when their strength was adjusted to how hard they were to play they were UP because a well played Warrior was better.

And don’t act as Thieves would made useless if the other player is given the chance to dodge C&D or Backstab.

sorrow.2364:

Nope, my initial point was that the combo/sequence depends on situations, not the case of thieves though. CnD+Backstab is always the combo. You won’t have the problem to daze someone who is rezzing, stripping stability to a guardian, immobilize a thief, fear someone who is bursting you down, pump the damage with Life Blast and so on. CnD+Backstab is more, more than enough to burst down anyone if coupled with Heartseeker.

sorrow.2364:

1. It is way harder to use because you have to use all your skill in a specific sequence depending on situations

trying to change your argument after the fact only weakens your overall stance. and, once again, you’re comparing thieves to necromancers. a class that’s considered to be underpowered.

Seriously? No profession can kill someone in 3 seconds unless when using some burst combo which usually are on long cooldown. But it doesn’t matter, since as far I know, thieves have dodge too.
If you couple this with the rendering issues going around, then you see the full picture

what you’re refusing to acknowledge is that the thief has a 45 second cooldown for steal and basilisk’s venom, as well as devourer venom.

the rendering issue is a bug that most thieves agree should be fixed, and Anet has stated they have fixed it in the patch that will be coming in on the 15th. if you want a class balanced around a bug, then what do you think is going to happen when the bug is fixed?

As I stated before, I can also survive to bad backstab thieves.
But it doesn’t mean that bad backstab thieves aren’t harder to counter compared to bad necromancer, bad elementalist or bad engineer and that bad thieves are way more effective as they should compared to bad x profession.

Balancing isn’t about counterability.
Overpowered doesn’t mean unbeatable.
Get this straight before arguing.

bad backstab thieves are indeed easy to counter if you actually have a clue what you’re doing. if you want to just be able to headbutt your keyboard a few times and win, i hear WoW has pandas now, you might want to check that out.

3 seconds is low also if you have an HP pool of 5k. A dodge is more than enough to mitigate the damage and survive for 3 seconds.

so… thieves are able to dodge, but no one else has that ability? or are they just expected to not have to use it because that’s how skilled players roll?

If you are healing, you aren’t dodging HS.
So, what is best, dodge spamming and getting killed anyway by some lucky HS or being killed because you tried to heal? Anyway you can’t dodge while under immobilization, so…

The player is still under immobilization.
Devourer Venom immobilizes for 2 seconds for 2 hits. Since Immobilization stacks in duration, there is a total of 4 seconds immobiliziation.
Does the time between Steal and HS spamming more than 4 seconds? I think no.
Also if Immobilization was bugged, 2 seconds are more than enough to get at least 1 hs landed.
You should stop lying.

once again, you’re moving the goalposts and adding another thief ability into the fray. so at this point, a thief who’s burnt up basilisk venom, steal, assasin’t signet, devourer’s venom, and ALL of their initiative shouldn’t be able to kill you? sounds as though your pushing for easy mode here, so again i’ll point out that WoW has pandas now.

Have you actually played tPvP where thieves are roamers? They enter already engaged fights with full initiative and clean out for sure one of the pretenders of a node.
Considering also that thief profession encourage hit-n-run gameplay, there are so few the situation you are starting a combo with less than maximum initiative.

so… they wait for the ideal opportunity to attack and then proceed to do so instead of just wandering up and mashing a bunch of buttons and expecting to win. and then have to stay out of the fight for the next 45 seconds while everything they just burned up is on cooldown. you’re pushing for easy mode. it’s not even remotely hidden at this point.

(continued)

]
You are joking right?
You have taken a video of a guy hitting for high numbers in WvWvW against upleveled people using a skill that requires at least 15 seconds (way more in reality) to be built up and has 2 seconds casting time in which you are clearly visibile to prove thieves bursts are fine?

numbers have never been your strong suit, as you’ve been completely wrong every time you’ve attempted to use them. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kill_Shot

1 3/4 second cast time. 10 second cooldown. and, unless you just saw that it was WvW and ignored everything else beyond that, you would have noticed HOW the guy was playing. he wasn’t rushing up into melee. he was playing like a sniper. hanging back at his extended range, waiting for his opportunity and then using his deadly ability. he was playing smart. if what you’re looking for is for everyone to just clump up in a giant ball and mash buttons until only one person is left standing, you’re always going to be disappointed when people actually put some thought into their actions.

Have you at least any idea on how much does backstab combo hits in sPvP/tPvP, not that WvWvW with 10+ buffs in the same moment?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plkM40HP54U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El8VchCccDs

You can see here many 13k+ bursts, just to say. And this is sPvP.

you do realize that those videos were nothing more than cherry picked highlight clips, right? zero relevant data was included. nothing about the defenders gear or build was even hinted at. nor was anything regarding their skill level. so, for all we know, those were people who just bought the game the day before who didn’t put any thought toward defense whatsoever, and got smashed like they should be. it’s not a valid sample to base anything on.

So, at the end, thieves have, compared to warrior:

ok, let’s do that.

- Less skill preparation: once you entered a fight you are able to use your combo

as opposed to warriors who enter a fight and have to spend 10 minutes picking daisies?

- Less casting time

yes, but much longer cooldown times. that’s the tradeoff for lower casting times.

- Less visibility

thieves are a stealth based class. they’d be absolutely useless if they were visible while in stealth. then it wouldn’t even be stealth. it would be “shiny happy kill me time”. your clear bias against stealth itself is showing.

- Higher damage

i think that it’s been proven time and again that a glass cannon thief’s damage is actually on par with the damage any other glass cannon class can put out, and currently even less than what some others are capable of, including warriors.

- Less ease to counter

once again, another push for easy mode. so once again, WoW has pandas. they’re soft and cuddly, just like how you want thieves in GW2 to be.

So if I have to struggle for balance sake, I’m going to fight my war here.

no, if you have to wage a personal war for easy mode, that’s what you’re going to do. and that’s what you are doing, and have been doing.

Always same story…always have to see noobs crying for a class that they don’t know, i read people who say that you can spam backstab, that you can permastealth while dealing damage…or just like this one posting a part of the screen with some random damage and a build QQing to nerf something…as far as i know you can make screens wthout wearing armor, you can screen dmg in wvsw and claim someone did it in spvp or just photoshop all…if you want to cry maybe make a dam video at last…probably you will only prove that you’re a nab unable to deal with easy countered builds like BS or HS spam…they should add a 12+ age tag on this game, srsly

People need to stop posting about stuff that happened in WvW.. WvW offers insane bonuses to damage that are not available in tpvp and spvp. Every single post here I see where people show videos or screenshots of “overpowered” events from warrior or thief or necromancer or whatever, came from WvW, and are thus invalid.

What happens in WvW does not matter, with the food and orbs and trinkets that you don’t have in spvp and tpvp. The warrior sniping 3 people at once, the thief instagibbing someone with two skills, against upleveled lvl2 characters in white gear, it all doesn’t matter squat, it is WvW, there can never be balance in WvW because offense can be upgraded insanely there, against upleveled people with no lvl80 gear, in ways that are impossible in tpvp and spvp.

It’s not a coincidence that none of these omgwtf videos are from spvp or tpvp, and that 99% of the complaints come from people who get gibbed in wvw, by someone who stacked every possible damage bonus available.

subcrazy.1098:

bwillb.2165:

subcrazy.1098:

My ele has 2400 armor and gets hit for 10k+(im not even glass spec, if I was would of been 1 shot for sure.), throw up lighting shield hes stunned in stealth still, but still gets off his other attacks to kill me all in stealth.

Attacking breaks stealth. You’re running into the rendering issues which everyone agrees need to be fixed.

Ya i know, but still 10k on 1 hit is a lil silly i only have 4k hp left after that. Even the 8k hit with 3300 armor is silly. With every spvp having 5- 8 thieves a game pretty soon it will be thief wars.

This is the problem with everyone assuming that the fight starts when the first hit lands.

It doesn’t. The fight starts once you think you might be hit, and start reacting accordingly.

If you were hit first when you didn’t think you’d be hit, you should have started the fight in your head earlier.

Also this absurd bandwagon about “5-8 thieves on every pvp team” is just so ridiculously, patently false. It’s a perfect example of the groupthink going on with the malcontents that want nerfs more than they want balance. A couple images of thief teams on 4chan is not real evidence.

I’m still headdesking every time I see people complaining about Heartseeker. I don’t even use it much when fighting an opponent that isn’t a moron, because people who aren’t morons just dodge roll it and you lose 2 activations worth of initiative. It really is a perfect example of just how little thought is being put into counters when people don’t even consider the game’s universal counter mechanic.

Phantom.8130:

numbers have never been your strong suit, as you’ve been completely wrong every time you’ve attempted to use them. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kill_Shot

1 3/4 second cast time. 10 second cooldown. and, unless you just saw that it was WvW and ignored everything else beyond that, you would have noticed HOW the guy was playing. he wasn’t rushing up into melee. he was playing like a sniper. hanging back at his extended range, waiting for his opportunity and then using his deadly ability. he was playing smart. if what you’re looking for is for everyone to just clump up in a giant ball and mash buttons until only one person is left standing, you’re always going to be disappointed when people actually put some thought into their actions.

1 3/4 seconds cast time differs from 1/4 second from 2 seconds casting time. So much difference, don’t you say?

So what? If you have tried kill shot you will realize that against full geared with base toughness character it won’t never hit above 10-13k damage. Never.
Your Cluster Bomb (3 initiative and 1200 range) would have hit for about 10k AoE damage against player geared like those shown in the video, plus bleeding. Thank me later when you feel like a AoE sniper when playing thief.

Phantom.8130:

you do realize that those videos were nothing more than cherry picked highlight clips, right? zero relevant data was included. nothing about the defenders gear or build was even hinted at. nor was anything regarding their skill level. so, for all we know, those were people who just bought the game the day before who didn’t put any thought toward defense whatsoever, and got smashed like they should be. it’s not a valid sample to base anything on.

But that WvWvW footage is a valid sample, right?
At least in those video you know that people have at least full exotic armor and you don’t have any buff from Orbs/Consumables/Fort bonuses.

Phantom.8130:

as opposed to warriors who enter a fight and have to spend 10 minutes picking daisies?

Building adrenaline, maybe? Warriors have to use 10 attacks to build up full adrenaline in order to use killshot.

Phantom.8130:

yes, but much longer cooldown times. that’s the tradeoff for lower casting times.

Seriously? Once Steal is on cooldown you can still use CnD+Backstab each 3 seconds and deal 10k+ damage. Where is the tradeoff, so?

Phantom.8130:

thieves are a stealth based class. they’d be absolutely useless if they were visible while in stealth. then it wouldn’t even be stealth. it would be “shiny happy kill me time”. your clear bias against stealth itself is showing.

So? Every high damage skill/combo in this game have huge visibility, thieves don’t. So the damage should be adjusted according to low visibility. Stealth is intended as a defensive mechanic, not offensive. That’s why Shadow Arts give toughness and most stealth skills heal you.

Phantom.8130:

i think that it’s been proven time and again that a glass cannon thief’s damage is actually on par with the damage any other glass cannon class can put out, and currently even less than what some others are capable of, including warriors.

I haven’t yet any s/tPvP footage of any profession except thieves dealing 18k+ damage in that time without using bugs.

Phantom.8130:

once again, another push for easy mode. so once again, WoW has pandas. they’re soft and cuddly, just like how you want thieves in GW2 to be.

Tell me any high damage burst skill/combo which isn’t easy to counter in Guild Wars 2, just one.

Phantom.8130:

no, if you have to wage a personal war for easy mode, that’s what you’re going to do. and that’s what you are doing, and have been doing.

Your argument is just stupid.
If I was struggling for easy mode, I would have better rerolled thief and not complaining at all. I’d rather defend thieves from nerfs like many people are doing in order to keep safe their opness and keep abusing of it.

1 3/4 seconds cast time differs from 1/4 second from 2 seconds casting time. So much difference, don’t you say?

using a skill that requires at least 15 seconds (way more in reality) to be built up and has 2 seconds casting time

once again, your own words work against you.

So what? If you have tried kill shot you will realize that against full geared with base toughness character it won’t never hit above 10-13k damage. Never.
Your Cluster Bomb (3 initiative and 1200 range) would have hit for about 10k AoE damage against player geared like those shown in the video, plus bleeding. Thank me later when you feel like a AoE sniper when playing thief.

1. if you had any idea how backstab works since the change to assassin’s signet, you will realize that the same damage numbers apply in both cases. but one is done by a thief, and apparently, they’re icky.
2. your damage numbers on cluster bomb are nowhere even close to reality. show me even a SINGLE screenshot where it hits anyone for 10k. it just plain doesn’t. on top of that, it’s extremely slow and easy to dodge except at point blank range, and that throws that 1200 right out the window.

But that WvWvW footage is a valid sample, right?
At least in those video you know that people have at least full exotic armor and you don’t have any buff from Orbs/Consumables/Fort bonuses.

#1. no, it wasn’t a valid sample. but if people are going to post cherry picked highlight clips and cropped screenshots to prove a point, they should expect the same crap thrown right back at them. that’s the precedent that’s been set.

1. orbs have been removed from WvW, so the highly significant bonuses they provided are no longer there. coincidentally, the matches and battles are the closest they ever have been.

Building adrenaline, maybe? Warriors have to use 10 attacks to build up full adrenaline in order to use killshot.

so if a warrior is in combat(which he should already be), he shouldn’t have much trouble being able to use his burst damage. the fact is, the thief’s damage is front loaded, the warrior’s damage is back loaded. they’re going to have different playstyles. get over it, because over an extended period of time, the numbers won’t be that far apart.

Seriously? Once Steal is on cooldown you can still use CnD+Backstab each 3 seconds and deal 10k+ damage. Where is the tradeoff, so?

for 6 initiative. add in the 6 he’s already used, and that taps out his 12 initiative. completely. add in the fact that if you actually move (not dodge, just move) he’s highly likely to miss his CnD, rendering no damage, no stealth, no combo, and completely defenseless.

So? Every high damage skill/combo in this game have huge visibility, thieves don’t. So the damage should be adjusted according to low visibility. Stealth is intended as a defensive mechanic, not offensive. That’s why Shadow Arts give toughness and most stealth skills heal you.

stealth is intended..? what? that’s just plain presumptuous to claim to know how Anet intended anything. you weren’t in the room when they came up with the mechanic. you simply don’t have any basis to back any of that up. especially considering that CnD is an OFFENSIVE ability, and backstab is an OFFENSIVE ability. and once again, your clear bias against stealth shows. you want an ambush class to have to take a long time to perform an ambush and be in plain sight while doing so. i.e. easy mode.

(continued)

I haven’t yet any s/tPvP footage of any profession except thieves dealing 18k+ damage in that time without using bugs.

and since they changed how assassin’s signet works, no thief is backstabbing for 18k+ damage now. yet you continue your crusade against them, using imaginary statistics.

Tell me any high damage burst skill/combo which isn’t easy to counter in Guild Wars 2, just one.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot%27s_Embrace
weapon switch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Wrath

total cast time: 1 3/4 second. i’ll even be generous and add in the extra quarter second for the weapon switch.

i know, the target just has to pop a CC breaker and they can avoid the second half. the fact is, that’s the SAME thing that applies to the thief combo. but that tends to get overlooked, because thieves are icky.

Your argument is just stupid.

going to call me a poopy head next?

If I was struggling for easy mode, I would have better rerolled thief and not complaining at all. I’d rather defend thieves from nerfs like many people are doing in order to keep safe their opness and keep abusing of it.

or, you’d be on the forums crying for a nerf. which is what MMO forums are usually filled with. and, coincidentally, exactly what you’re doing. obviously you wouldn’t bother to actually to learn about what you fear, because then you might realize that it’s not the game that’s the problem. as opposed to actually trying it, seeing what all is required to make it work, and realizing it’s not as easy as it is to cry nerf on the forums. so the path of least resistance is taken.

coincidentally, unless you agreed with the points of the first half of my previous reply, you never bothered to respond to any of them. so either you agreed, or went all easy mode and just decided to argue against one section and ignore the rest.

Oh noes – no 18k backstabs?

I just dropped 90% of my health before i could react. No class should have that capability. 5-6k CnDs. 5-6k heartseekers (wooh yeah a spammable gap closer that doubles as an escape tool that does 5-6k – and thats not overpowered?) 5-6k and then some backstabs.

There is nothing difficult or weak about a thief. Its grossly overpowered, has been since launch and should have been nerfed much harder much earlier and we wouldnt be having this thread.

tagnut.8621:

Oh noes – no 18k backstabs?

I just dropped 90% of my health before i could react. No class should have that capability. 5-6k CnDs. 5-6k heartseekers (wooh yeah a spammable gap closer that doubles as an escape tool that does 5-6k – and thats not overpowered?) 5-6k and then some backstabs.

There is nothing difficult or weak about a thief. Its grossly overpowered, has been since launch and should have been nerfed much harder much earlier and we wouldnt be having this thread.

Try using an armor, it might help you.

Kuroin.1703:

tagnut.8621:

Oh noes – no 18k backstabs?

I just dropped 90% of my health before i could react. No class should have that capability. 5-6k CnDs. 5-6k heartseekers (wooh yeah a spammable gap closer that doubles as an escape tool that does 5-6k – and thats not overpowered?) 5-6k and then some backstabs.

There is nothing difficult or weak about a thief. Its grossly overpowered, has been since launch and should have been nerfed much harder much earlier and we wouldnt be having this thread.

Try using an armor, it might help you.

whats the point in armor and stats if you can live 0,5 sec longer in full def spec and def gear? (you live 3sec max)

if you attack thief first he run away with stealth + shortbow teleport crap

if thief attack first you are dead before you react

Or the thief who just removed 75% of my health whilst invisible – then proceded to restealth whilst i was downed and 4*heartseeker spam me to death without popping out of stealth again.

Yes thats what the CL showed.

Its laughable you’re trying to argue this godmode class doesn’t need heavy nerfs.

Kill shot has a base strength of 792 at full adrenaline, backstab has a base of 806. But backstab combo also has mug and CnD, making it a 1263 damage combo in less than .5sec, compared to 792 in 1.75sec. So no, killshot “burst” is definitely not higher.

Ashorah.1345:

If thief was not as OP i dont think we would see Spvp with up to 4 or 5 thieves in every teams.

this quote was from another thread, but this is what will cause thieves to get nerfed faster than anything else.

if every pvp match becomes lopsided with thieves it will leave A-net no choice but to nerf the class. The game is not called thief-wars.

If people looked at the long term they would support balancing the class instead of fighting to stay overpowered. If your class stays overpowered it will become overpopulated to the extreme, and then Anet will have no choice but to dole out heavy nerfs to restore population balance between classes.

saurus.8290:

Kuroin.1703:

tagnut.8621:

Oh noes – no 18k backstabs?

I just dropped 90% of my health before i could react. No class should have that capability. 5-6k CnDs. 5-6k heartseekers (wooh yeah a spammable gap closer that doubles as an escape tool that does 5-6k – and thats not overpowered?) 5-6k and then some backstabs.

There is nothing difficult or weak about a thief. Its grossly overpowered, has been since launch and should have been nerfed much harder much earlier and we wouldnt be having this thread.

Try using an armor, it might help you.

whats the point in armor and stats if you can live 0,5 sec longer in full def spec and def gear? (you live 3sec max)

if you attack thief first he run away with stealth + shortbow teleport crap

if thief attack first you are dead before you react

No. If you are traited for defense with good armor to go with it you will not die. Maybe if you expose your back to the dagger waiting for a few backstabs.