@Balanced thief post-patch
Sure, I am wrong. It’s a dual skill. Flanking strike still has no daze, you were refering to tactical strike and said flanking strike.
Not exactly. He said: I run dagger offset not for dancing dagger, but for flanking strike. My only use for stealth is the occasional daze. Meaning I already have revealed debuff EVERY TIME I stealth nothing changes.
He runs S/D for Flanking Strike. This establishes the connection between his statement and the previous “all /D affected” (and he clarifies that he uses S/D for FS, which may be an unnecessary comment).
Separately, he states that Daze is the only reason why he uses the stealth in the S/D set, and therefore he always has revealed anyways.
There’s no reason to automatically relate the two statements. Although I’d still give it a 33% chance he meant to say Tactical Strike, I don’t think it’s guaranteed. I think there’s a reasonable 2/3s chance that he just threw in extraneous explanation for why he uses S/D (perhaps to reinforce the fact that it is not “just for CND stealth”).
Correct, I said Flanking Strike, and meant Flanking Strike (unblockable, boon stripping, evasion attack, NOT the daze)
~Shadowkat
S/D, Sb 0/30/30/0/10 will be unharmed by this. Dunno what you’re talking about, on one hand I crit and proc haste via Critical Haste a lot. On the other, I proc, blind, daze, condition removal and regen every 3 seconds.
Registered Altaholic
Part-time Kittenposter
Part-time Kittenposter
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/D
No-
S/P
P/P
SB
It affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
You make the false assumption that everyone with dagger offhand uses a stealth spamming play-style; when, in fact, most do not. Most using that set already break stealth with an attack, and any “stacking” they do is simply stacking of the duration which has not been affected as they never actually “LEAVE” stealth to do that.
~Shadowkat
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
Apparently you have to wait 3 secs to re-enter stealth after back…. oh wait YOU ALREADY DO!
~Shadowkat
D/P is affected in ‘theory’ by the fact that BP + HS = Stealth. As this is a more expensive stealth combo that can’t be used for perma-stealthing like x/D can, if you’re waiting for fade rather than using the combo in an attack, you’re still now being forced to be revealed for 3 seconds rather than just the 2 seconds it takes to do the combo.
Really though, shouldn’t be on that list. And I hope of all hope that anyone thinks that losing the ability to permastealth off x/D breaks thief quits/rolls another class. This is such a minor change that only fixes a broken aspect of the gameplay of thief. Perma stealth should never been achievable, especially in the no-counter-no-downside-heavily-buffable state that it is. All other standard gameplay of stealth will remain the same. The bigger “nerf” is the fact they’re turning off culling.
Oh nose! We might not handle 1v5’s as easily as before now!
Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Thief – Jade Quarry.
You know, I thought this idea was terrible, but then again… I don’t think it’ll bother me too much?
I play P/D so I will hardly recognize it.
WHAT I AM bothered by though, is how this will make my thief more vulnerable in high-lvl FoTM. Can’t chain stealth for Dredge Fractal for Control panels? Dead.
Can’t chain stealth to bomb door? Dead.
And dungeons too. Remember that corridor at the start of TA with the dogs and them knockdowns? Yeah. Dead.
But in combat itself? Meh, it’s fine :P
Drawing Guy, you have your builds mixed up a little d/p IS the permastealth build, with the right traits and skills equipped that build NEVER leaves stealth, where as the CnD spammer technically leaves stealth every 4 seconds then re-stealths
d/p is perma stealth and is NOT affected by this change, only CnD spammers get hit
Both should be fixed somehow, but this change only fixes one of them
@Sifu: P/D won’t be affected since we just need to stealth to ‘activate’ our Pistol stealth skill, to stack the bleeds. We don’t need to be in permastealth, we just need to stealth as soon as we are able to. And if there are any detrimental affects to P/D, we can just swap a bit of Condition Damage for Condition Duration, making each individual stealth more rewarding.
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
What do you do now when you miss a BS on D/P? Resealth right? Just have to wait a bit longer now. Is this huge? No, but it does impact D/P somewhat…
(edited by skupuz.6940)
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
You make the false assumption that everyone with dagger offhand uses a stealth spamming play-style; when, in fact, most do not. Most using that set already break stealth with an attack, and any “stacking” they do is simply stacking of the duration which has not been affected as they never actually “LEAVE” stealth to do that.
You made a false assumption that the OP was providing an opinion but he was merely stating a fact. This change will affect those weapon sets that are listed.
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
I was speaking to the change in mechanic in a general sense and not to CnD by itself.
Rofl. D/P just uses HS again for more stealth without appearing / triggering the new reveal. Hello people, do you even play D/P?
If you can’t read English, please do not reply to my post.
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
What do you do now when you miss a BS on D/P? Resealth right? Just have to wait a bit longer now. Is this huge? No, but it does impact D/P somewhat…
Um, no. If you miss a BS then you’re horrible. :/
Using stealth to amend your mistake is not what stealth is for. So you admit, that the complaints are really coming from those who are horrible at stealthing that they can miss a BS. >.<’
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
I was speaking to the change in mechanic in a general sense and not to CnD by itself.
I was asking how it affect D/P. Never asked anything about CnD.
If you’re argument is the same as the other guy (who misses BS) then that’s just a horrible play of the Thief profession. :/
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
I was speaking to the change in mechanic in a general sense and not to CnD by itself.
I was asking how it affect D/P. Never asked anything about CnD.
If you’re argument is the same as the other guy (who misses BS) then that’s just a horrible play of the Thief profession. :/
Pretty much what the other guy said. You miss the BS and or auto. “Miss” as in not getting to target in time, target dodges, aegis, lag, kittened up your combo, what have you.
Not sure how you’re going to argue with that. You’re asking me how it affect D/P and I gave it to you.
If you want to talk about good players vs bad players, we can talk about that too.
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
I was speaking to the change in mechanic in a general sense and not to CnD by itself.
I was asking how it affect D/P. Never asked anything about CnD.
If you’re argument is the same as the other guy (who misses BS) then that’s just a horrible play of the Thief profession. :/
Pretty much what the other guy said. You miss the BS and or auto. “Miss” as in not getting to target in time, target dodges, aegis, lag, kittened up your combo, what have you.
Not sure how you’re going to argue with that. You’re asking me how it affect D/P and I gave it to you.
If you want to talk about good players vs bad players, we can talk about that too.
That doesn’t affect the weapon set at all since any weapon set can make that claim, yet you excluded some of them.
This is a player’s judgment issue, not a stealth issue.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
I was speaking to the change in mechanic in a general sense and not to CnD by itself.
I was asking how it affect D/P. Never asked anything about CnD.
If you’re argument is the same as the other guy (who misses BS) then that’s just a horrible play of the Thief profession. :/
Pretty much what the other guy said. You miss the BS and or auto. “Miss” as in not getting to target in time, target dodges, aegis, lag, kittened up your combo, what have you.
Not sure how you’re going to argue with that. You’re asking me how it affect D/P and I gave it to you.
If you want to talk about good players vs bad players, we can talk about that too.
That doesn’t affect the weapon set at all since any weapon set can make that claim, yet you excluded some of them.
This is a player’s judgment issue, not a stealth issue.
Uh? I’m not tracking. Are you saying there’s no stealth on a D/P set (I believe we’re just talking about weapon sets and not heal/utilities)?
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
I was speaking to the change in mechanic in a general sense and not to CnD by itself.
I was asking how it affect D/P. Never asked anything about CnD.
If you’re argument is the same as the other guy (who misses BS) then that’s just a horrible play of the Thief profession. :/
Pretty much what the other guy said. You miss the BS and or auto. “Miss” as in not getting to target in time, target dodges, aegis, lag, kittened up your combo, what have you.
Not sure how you’re going to argue with that. You’re asking me how it affect D/P and I gave it to you.
If you want to talk about good players vs bad players, we can talk about that too.
That doesn’t affect the weapon set at all since any weapon set can make that claim, yet you excluded some of them.
This is a player’s judgment issue, not a stealth issue.
Uh? I’m not tracking. Are you saying there’s no stealth on a D/P set (I believe we’re just talking about weapon sets and not heal/utilities)?
I’m saying is that S/P can make the same claim, yet you didn’t add it.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
I was speaking to the change in mechanic in a general sense and not to CnD by itself.
I was asking how it affect D/P. Never asked anything about CnD.
If you’re argument is the same as the other guy (who misses BS) then that’s just a horrible play of the Thief profession. :/
Pretty much what the other guy said. You miss the BS and or auto. “Miss” as in not getting to target in time, target dodges, aegis, lag, kittened up your combo, what have you.
Not sure how you’re going to argue with that. You’re asking me how it affect D/P and I gave it to you.
If you want to talk about good players vs bad players, we can talk about that too.
That doesn’t affect the weapon set at all since any weapon set can make that claim, yet you excluded some of them.
This is a player’s judgment issue, not a stealth issue.
Uh? I’m not tracking. Are you saying there’s no stealth on a D/P set (I believe we’re just talking about weapon sets and not heal/utilities)?
I’m saying is that S/P can make the same claim, yet you didn’t add it.
I didn’t know you can stealth using S/P…
In my original comment, I replied to someone stating “it [change to reveal debuff] basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.” So I listed every weapon set that has stealth and will be affect by the new change. This is not considering utilties/traits/heal. Nothing more nothing less.
This thread is getting hilarious.
I’ll try to dumb it down for people:
1. Many weapon sets have stealth. Many of those sets do NOT use stealth in a manner that will be affected by the change/nerf. D/P is a case where the stealth function is not typically used in a way that will be adversely affected by the change. Anyone listing D/P as a set that will be impacted by the change doesn’t know how D/P is effectively played.
2. All weapon sets are theoretically affected by the change, because they can all use blinding powder then get wtfrevealed as they are running the hell away.
What a useless tangent of discussion.
If you can’t read English, please do not reply to my post.
ensoriki.5789, I am not concerned about what you can and cannot do to avoid a freaking bulls charge. Stop talking to me about it. It’s a moot point.
We all know how to avoid them.
My point is that thieves are now missing their #1 tool to avoid getting bursted by any class. That is chain stealth.
You cannot argue me on this because it is a fact.
It isn’t its situational. So long as you continue it it works otherwise you are subject to a back stab like everyone else. Chaining can also get you killed under certain utils by exposing your crutch play and end up get aoe cc’d and then smashed.
The point means little Chain CND is nerfed but you aren’t defenceless regardless so it is not something to lose sleep over unless you can justify how it is ‘required’ to successfully play a thief and you have not.
In addition it basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.
Yes –
D/D
D/P
S/D
P/DNo-
S/P
P/P
SBIt affects 4 out of 7 weapon sets which is a lot.
How exactly does it affect D/P? :/
I was speaking to the change in mechanic in a general sense and not to CnD by itself.
I was asking how it affect D/P. Never asked anything about CnD.
If you’re argument is the same as the other guy (who misses BS) then that’s just a horrible play of the Thief profession. :/
Pretty much what the other guy said. You miss the BS and or auto. “Miss” as in not getting to target in time, target dodges, aegis, lag, kittened up your combo, what have you.
Not sure how you’re going to argue with that. You’re asking me how it affect D/P and I gave it to you.
If you want to talk about good players vs bad players, we can talk about that too.
That doesn’t affect the weapon set at all since any weapon set can make that claim, yet you excluded some of them.
This is a player’s judgment issue, not a stealth issue.
Uh? I’m not tracking. Are you saying there’s no stealth on a D/P set (I believe we’re just talking about weapon sets and not heal/utilities)?
I’m saying is that S/P can make the same claim, yet you didn’t add it.
I didn’t know you can stealth using S/P…
In my original comment, I replied to someone stating “it [change to reveal debuff] basically does not even touch certain weapon sets.” So I listed every weapon set that has stealth and will be affect by the new change. This is not considering utilties/traits/heal. Nothing more nothing less.
And you can stealth using D/P how?
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
I don’t think I’m balanced but I do play a bit that way. I currently am playing 10/30/30 using 40% endo regen food. I played the other night trying to pay specific attention to this nerf to see how it will effect me. I really didn’t run into many situations where it did. Here are just a couple that will easily be able to be ajusted.
1. I found that at times I would in stealth behind someone and choose to let stealth drop then immediately do a C&D Steal combo. This won’t be possible post patch. I could have instead done a stealstab from range or open in any other way (sword2 or P/D3, whatever) and it would not be that big of a deal.
2. There were times where I would be in an outnumbered fight, C&D then withdraw away, then weapon-swap to D/P and after a second or so of being out of stealth, leap into a black powder combo to get stealth again quickly. All that needs to be done here is wait an extra couple seconds. It may allow whoever is chasing me to get a beat on me and give chase, that’s about it.
3. Sometimes when trying to stay in longer duration stealth with black powder my init regen isn’t enough and I un-stealth for a split second. This will be by far the biggest effect as you don’t usually mean to do it. Will just need to be very careful with low init regen and trying to stealth for a long period with D/P.
That was pretty much it. If you find yourself C&Ding then waiting and doing it again I think you are playing wrong or just trolling. My Mesmer is going to be way worse off because I hardly ever attack from stealth but many times stealth again before 3 seconds.
And you can stealth using D/P how?
You should really know a subject before you post on it
to answer your question press 5 then press 2
2. There were times where I would be in an outnumbered fight, C&D then withdraw away, then weapon-swap to D/P and after a second or so of being out of stealth, leap into a black powder combo to get stealth again quickly. All that needs to be done here is wait an extra couple seconds. It may allow whoever is chasing me to get a beat on me and give chase, that’s about it.
This is the problem in this thread – using black powder so you can leap thru it to get stealth. That waste of initiative is not something that is affected by the stealth change. If you want to get away, then do what smart thief does, use a Shortbow after CnD.
And you can stealth using D/P how?
You should really know a subject before you post on it
to answer your question press 5 then press 2
‘sigh’ I wanted him to explain the ridiculousness of trying to gain stealth using D/P.
What benefit does that combo do other than costing you 9 initiative just to trigger stealth?
Thanks for ruining it.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
(edited by Sir Vincent III.1286)
This change affects passive thieves fighting more than 1 person. Running S/D and D/P I just know when I am over extending.
This will affect fights with mesmers alot I think for all thieves. As stealth bought you a few extra moments to locate the mesmer (identifying is easy) since they can use blink, decoy, phase retreat etc to move around alot.
If I ever did chain cloak and dagger it was vs mesmer and its clones that is the only way I can see this change affecting me personally.
[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
Actually the BPS + HS combo is the most efficient way to stack stealth. with Infusion of shadow each heartseeker is only 1 init, so you can easily and cheaply get multiple stacks of stealth for a duration much greater than CnD
Actually the BPS + HS combo is the most efficient way to stack stealth. with Infusion of shadow each heartseeker is only 1 init, so you can easily and cheaply get multiple stacks of stealth for a duration much greater than CnD
How does that relate to the discussion?
The claim was;
What do you do now when you miss a BS on D/P? Resealth right? Just have to wait a bit longer now. Is this huge? No, but it does impact D/P somewhat…
But still the “impact” was not explained other than trying to get away for which there are many other alternatives to achieve the same goal other than stealth.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Actually the BPS + HS combo is the most efficient way to stack stealth. with Infusion of shadow each heartseeker is only 1 init, so you can easily and cheaply get multiple stacks of stealth for a duration much greater than CnD
How does that relate to the discussion?
The claim was;
What do you do now when you miss a BS on D/P? Resealth right? Just have to wait a bit longer now. Is this huge? No, but it does impact D/P somewhat…
But still the “impact” was not explained other than trying to get away for which there are many other alternatives to achieve the same goal other than stealth.
I think Stiv did a better job at explaining it than me.
With that being said, what is your point?
By the way, why is BP+HS combo ridiculous?
(edited by Sifu.6527)
I still don’t get why they are doing a blanket nerf rather than altering the few cases that are vailidly silly or exploitative…
It will effect all thieves to some degree if only by limiting choices and not just in pvp but in pve, there are times when switching to full stealth utilities to do something is the easier way (and balanced in such that you have to use full utils and burn em) and of course there are traits and builds that can use stealth repeatedly in defensive methods in a balanced but because some idiots died to a CnD hit every 3-4 seconds or such they decide to blanket nerf the entire mechanic rather than tweaking those few exploitative/imbalanced situations.
Im just very upset that anet seems to have put very little thought into this AND gone against many of their previous statements (of not nerfing professions, not using WvW to effect massive game encompassing changes etc etc)
Are there things about stealth that need to be changed? yes there is, but an ignorant blanket nerf that hurts other builds and professions just as much if not more is not the way to do it.
Is there going to be such a thing? I play like Yashis. I like to 1v5 or more. D/D + S/D atm.
You can check my post history and while i do agree some thief mechanics need tweaking I have never complained they were overpowered and I defended them against whiners who do complain.
However, any class that can regularly win or even pose a threat in 1v5’s is overpowered in my book. You opening with such a statement forces me to slap myself and tell myself “it’s just another guy trying to brag, thief class isn’t as OP as he makes it out to be”.
Please, STOP. You braggarts are the kind of people ruining the class. People come onto the thief forums and see all these stories of thieves winning 1vX. When they see that the first thing they think is “this class is overpowered” not “This guy has a lot of skill” or the more rational “This guy is just bragging”. Hence, it reinforces their pre conceived ideas of “thieves OP, nerf them” and they lobby harder for nerfs, and now A-Net is nerfing stealth.
I hope you are happy.
I still don’t get why they are doing a blanket nerf rather than altering the few cases that are vailidly silly or exploitative…
It will effect all thieves to some degree if only by limiting choices and not just in pvp but in pve, there are times when switching to full stealth utilities to do something is the easier way (and balanced in such that you have to use full utils and burn em) and of course there are traits and builds that can use stealth repeatedly in defensive methods in a balanced but because some idiots died to a CnD hit every 3-4 seconds or such they decide to blanket nerf the entire mechanic rather than tweaking those few exploitative/imbalanced situations.
Im just very upset that anet seems to have put very little thought into this AND gone against many of their previous statements (of not nerfing professions, not using WvW to effect massive game encompassing changes etc etc)
Are there things about stealth that need to be changed? yes there is, but an ignorant blanket nerf that hurts other builds and professions just as much if not more is not the way to do it.
I too have made suggestion on how to fix this but it was drowned in a sea of QQ threads/posts.
Chaining CnD, at least to me, is fine but should only be possible 2 times max until you run out of init. However, there are traits such as Infusion of Shadow, Patience, quick recovery, etc that allows for indefinite stealth. Instead of nerfing those traits, they went ahead with a blanket nerf. Right or wrong, only time will tell.
(edited by Sifu.6527)
I too have made suggestion on how to fix this too but it was drowned in a sea of QQ threads/posts.
Chaining CnD, at least to me, is fine but should only be possible 2 times max until you run out of init. However, there are traits such as Infusion of Shadow, Patience, quick recovery, etc that allows for easy indefinite stealth. Instead of nerfing those traits, they went ahead with a blanket nerf. Right or wrong, only time will tell.
Personally for CnD I’d rather they do something along the lines of when you CnD you get a buff called “Feint” that lasts 8 seconds, any CnD used while this is up deals no damage and refreshes the buff, becoming revealed clears the buff.
This means CnD can still be used for more than just backstab fodder but people can’t abuse it to chip away at new players.
But yeah.. blanket nerf instead, can’t wait to see what other nerfs we get in the near future when all the new players that struggle with backstab thieves that complained to get this nerf find that they are the build almost unaffected by this.
Regardless, the best solution to provide adequate defenses with burst offense for thief after patch will be D/P imo…
Fought a guardian today, no way I was going to kill that guy without using CND→CND a few times to regen HP.
Post patch, I think the only thing that would have saved me would have been blinding powder.
Which means I may quit thief all together. I really hate D/P choice. I want to run D/D and stealth with CND. Thief won’t be fun anymore for me. I’ll continue to play my warrior and possibly finish off my ele.
Just another noob thief…
Actually the BPS + HS combo is the most efficient way to stack stealth. with Infusion of shadow each heartseeker is only 1 init, so you can easily and cheaply get multiple stacks of stealth for a duration much greater than CnD
How does that relate to the discussion?
The claim was;
What do you do now when you miss a BS on D/P? Resealth right? Just have to wait a bit longer now. Is this huge? No, but it does impact D/P somewhat…
But still the “impact” was not explained other than trying to get away for which there are many other alternatives to achieve the same goal other than stealth.
I think Stiv did a better job at explaining it than me.
With that being said, what is your point?
I was the one asking what this “impact” is going to happen to D/P that affects it in some illusionary negative way.
By the way, why is BP+HS combo ridiculous?
I see the problem now. Reading comprehension. That’s not what I’m saying.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Actually the BPS + HS combo is the most efficient way to stack stealth. with Infusion of shadow each heartseeker is only 1 init, so you can easily and cheaply get multiple stacks of stealth for a duration much greater than CnD
How does that relate to the discussion?
The claim was;
What do you do now when you miss a BS on D/P? Resealth right? Just have to wait a bit longer now. Is this huge? No, but it does impact D/P somewhat…
But still the “impact” was not explained other than trying to get away for which there are many other alternatives to achieve the same goal other than stealth.
I think Stiv did a better job at explaining it than me.
With that being said, what is your point?
I was the one asking what this “impact” is going to happen to D/P that affects it in some illusionary negative way.
By the way, why is BP+HS combo ridiculous?
I see the problem now. Reading comprehension. That’s not what I’m saying.
Sorry, english isn’t my first language. But I thought you said “I wanted him to explain the ridiculousness of trying to gain stealth using D/P.” Did I interrupted this incorrectly?
(edited by Sifu.6527)
Actually the BPS + HS combo is the most efficient way to stack stealth. with Infusion of shadow each heartseeker is only 1 init, so you can easily and cheaply get multiple stacks of stealth for a duration much greater than CnD
How does that relate to the discussion?
The claim was;
What do you do now when you miss a BS on D/P? Resealth right? Just have to wait a bit longer now. Is this huge? No, but it does impact D/P somewhat…
But still the “impact” was not explained other than trying to get away for which there are many other alternatives to achieve the same goal other than stealth.
I think Stiv did a better job at explaining it than me.
With that being said, what is your point?
I was the one asking what this “impact” is going to happen to D/P that affects it in some illusionary negative way.
By the way, why is BP+HS combo ridiculous?
I see the problem now. Reading comprehension. That’s not what I’m saying.
Sorry, english isn’t my first language. But I thought you said “I wanted him to explain the ridiculousness of trying to gain stealth using D/P.” Did I interupt this incorrectly?
Yes you did.
The ridiculousness is not the combo, but the steps you have to go thru to reach the same goal, in this case, going into stealth to get away — when you can accomplish the same goal with something else.
I hope that helps. Sorry, no offense intended.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Is there going to be such a thing? I play like Yashis. I like to 1v5 or more. D/D + S/D atm.
I am running valk armor, divinity runes, berserker everything else.
I just got ascended back piece and rings/ammy for thief as well. Only missing earrings and now my class gets nerfed.
I feel like that since our class is losing at least 20% the amount of time in stealth due the nerf that there won’t be a spot for the “balanced” thief anymore.
We will have to go completely glass or condition. After nerf thief won’t be able to stay in a fight even with all defensive traits because we will be forced to be visible way more often. There won’t be such a thing as using CND to gain positioning.
I think we will be forced to kill something quickly and run like hell, which sounds more like a glass cannon to me than a balanced thief.
Forget thief in spvp, if they can’t stealth as much they will eat my HB combo much easier from my warrior. This change practically nullifies the thief in spvp imo.
How else are people preparing to deal with the nerf? I think I will have to completely change the way I play the game as a thief. Thank you ANet, just what I wanted.
EDIT: I was playing my thief this weekend and I was solo as usual. Some ranger I killed invites me to group and the first thing he says is “I can’t wait for your playstyle to get nerfed.”
Funny thing is, I never “abused” cnd against him, not once. I killed him flat out with regular revealed and using stealth attack every time.
Our class is getting nerfed because of kittens like this guy, really?
Response to your edit comment. I believe so. This nerf has nothing to do about the competitive tpvp. This was purely done to applease the WvW playerbase.
Lol at OP. So u won’t be able to 1v5+ anymore? Oh no that’s really unfair!
This is not a big issue at all imo. I think in my 700 hrs of thief game play I’ve chained cnd maybe 5-10 times.. Will we have to be more careful when using hide in shadows? Yes, but that’s bout it
This is so kitten Say i dont use the backstab build but instead i uses condition pistol. This will hurt me just because qqers and kittens talk about omg BS so op broken. If they play wvw there are thousands of things that regular lvl 80s dont use. #1 food buffs are hilariously good when combined with gear and other stuff. #2 as well as good backpieces and ascended gear. #3 there are actually tricks in the game where you can see over walls and around walls. Thiefs are suppose to use those. #4 hours spent on that class. I dont see Yishis running around with a 300 hours logged account. Although he uses basic mechanics he has mastered his class and knows plenty about the game listen to his commentaries they explain everything. Reflect projectiles biggest troll known to man. It counters engineers rangers and most warriors who use rifle. Not complaing just saying dont nerf one thing that will hurt other builds.
Oh and dont worry once people get to see wild bills vids and start using it that will be op plz nerf as well.
I have a lvl 80 ele thief and warrior also a lvl 52 mesmer. I understand what op is and isnt.
(edited by Dirty Dova.6490)
This change will not affect me me much I suppose, as I rarely use stealth.
However, this will most likely do nothing at all to stop the nerf hysteria. Even if by some wild chance, these people suddenly find a few seconds of stealth acceptable, they will simply move on to ask for more nerfs ( many of which are already requested in various ravings in the forums).
The vague “buffs” mentioned in the SoTG video? I doubt they will be in the patch, and sadly doubt they will ever materialize. Any change to the thief profession that does not reduce damage or hinder the class, will see these same people moved to the same frenzied outrage we see daily in the forums.
And, they also talked about reducing the thief damage more as well, so I suppose this is coming too.
This change will do little to make anyone happy I think, and may simply represent the shape of things to come. I’d like to be wrong, and suddenly have people just enjoying the game, but I do not feel optimistic.
Is there going to be such a thing? I play like Yashis. I like to 1v5 or more. D/D + S/D atm.
I am running valk armor, divinity runes, berserker everything else.
I just got ascended back piece and rings/ammy for thief as well. Only missing earrings and now my class gets nerfed.
I feel like that since our class is losing at least 20% the amount of time in stealth due the nerf that there won’t be a spot for the “balanced” thief anymore.
We will have to go completely glass or condition. After nerf thief won’t be able to stay in a fight even with all defensive traits because we will be forced to be visible way more often. There won’t be such a thing as using CND to gain positioning.
I think we will be forced to kill something quickly and run like hell, which sounds more like a glass cannon to me than a balanced thief.
Forget thief in spvp, if they can’t stealth as much they will eat my HB combo much easier from my warrior. This change practically nullifies the thief in spvp imo.
How else are people preparing to deal with the nerf? I think I will have to completely change the way I play the game as a thief. Thank you ANet, just what I wanted.
EDIT: I was playing my thief this weekend and I was solo as usual. Some ranger I killed invites me to group and the first thing he says is “I can’t wait for your playstyle to get nerfed.”
Funny thing is, I never “abused” cnd against him, not once. I killed him flat out with regular revealed and using stealth attack every time.
Our class is getting nerfed because of kittens like this guy, really?
Necro rez!
I’ll try out my current spec and see how that goes. I do have a feeling the nerf will impact my 1vX. If it does, I’m going to respec to D/P.
D/P is already becoming popular. With the upcoming patch, you might see more of them as they still offer the same potential to 1vX. Blind field stomp will replace stealth stomp. However, I’m afraid this will eventually get nerf too since you can chain/prolong stealth without hitting a target. This is like a trolling dps build…
op: “Oh my god, they are removing permastealth, how can I live after that? I will probably give up on thief sine I will not be able to use my ‘balanced’ thief build anymore. [cry]….” CnD→CnD→CnD→ and so on, you call it a “balance” or “skill”, I call it a broken mechanics. And anyone who rely on this deserve to be “hit to the groin”.
P.S. I’m a D/D thief myself, and I’m glad this broken mechanics will be fixed. CnD spamming noobs should get what they deserve.
Macovan – 80 Thief
Sanctum of Rall
Sanctum of Rall
I am running valk armor, divinity runes, berserker everything else.
I just got ascended back piece and rings/ammy for thief as well. Only missing earrings and now my class gets nerfed.
I feel like that since our class is losing at least 20% the amount of time in stealth due the nerf that there won’t be a spot for the “balanced” thief anymore.
It’s denoting to thieves to call such a build ‘balanced’.
To all other professions this build is ‘almost glass canon’.
Maybe some day thieves have to equip some toughness, like every other profession in this game. lol
I really don’t understand how people can’t see the positive in everything that Anet is doing. First, alot of people have been complaining about class balance. Many feel certain classes are way to strong and others way to weak. Their is currently EIGHT freaking classes to balances with tons of weapon sets and tons of utilities. That is alot of work. And if you saw the recent SOTG with the class balancer Dev (Karl I believe) you would quickly realize that balancing the equilibrium of just walking on two feet is probably more than enough challenge for him in one day.
Given these facts, anet has literally begun doing what I feel is the ultimate way to balance the classes. See, by nerfing the thief and neglecting the ranger, necro, warrior, and engi anet is starting to create a class divide. The bottom half of classes no one needs to worry about because they will no longer be in the game. Class balance on these toons is now solved. Gradually, we hopefully can then get to a state of further neglect of the top classes like mesmer and guardian… leaving only the ONE class – ele… to really worry about.
But if there is only ONE class, then no matter what abilities it has…it is balanced…because ALL players have these abilities because they ALL play the one class.
My god Karl and anet…freaking brilliant. Here I was worried that you guys couldn’t find your way out of a paper box…and instead I now see an ingenious design to actually create the ULTIMATE CLASS BALANCE.
Kudos guys… simply marvelous. I will never doubt this team again. The people wanted balance… Anet delivered. One class, one set of abilities… balance is now shared by all.
As I main a thief I’ve pretty much accepted this nerf already since there’s not much we can do about it, however if they go through with it, they should also compensate by buffing some core stealth traits like Shadow’s Rejuvenation and Patience as the nerf will force you to be more in combat and less in stealth these traits will no longer be worth it.
And then there is Last Refuge, the minor trait that gets everyone killed so many times. This trait should be activated regardless of the revealed debuff.
Another thing that can be done is to double all base stealth durations.
It’s denoting to thieves to call such a build ‘balanced’.
To all other professions this build is ‘almost glass canon’.
Maybe some day thieves have to equip some toughness, like every other profession in this game. lol
Most thieves are equipping toughness.
The balanced thief usually implies have 30SA or high SA in combination with some armor pieces that include vitality or toughness or both but always some berserker gear. Shadow Arts is also our stealth regen line and toughness trait line.
Glass cannon thieves are 30DA 30CS 10 Trickery, which is what I am currently running in wvw for the moment.
I still think D/P is going to be the best for a shadow arts/balanced thief, but I’ve opted to just insta gib someone every 45s.
Just another noob thief…