Guild Wars 2

How about we complain about the thief moving too much, eh? I mean everyone already kittened stealth to death and now that we have something to work with you guys come one here again to complain about it.

If every thief agreed to just stand there and die for you for an entire week would that satisfy you and the crowd you indirectly assotiate with so I don’t have to come on here and see, “OMFGTHIEFKILLDME! NERFIT!!!@#RC”?

For kitten’s sake, this kitten is getting old.

Zacchary.6183:

How about we complain about the thief moving too much, eh? I mean everyone already kittened stealth to death and now that we have something to work with you guys come one here again to complain about it.

If every thief agreed to just stand there and die for you for an entire week would that satisfy you and the crowd you indirectly assotiate with so I don’t have to come on here and see, “OMFGTHIEFKILLDME! NERFIT!!!@#RC”?

For kitten’s sake, this kitten is getting old.

Has anyone here complained about Thief mobility? I don’t think so.
People here are complaining about the fact that Thieves can just mash tkittenutton continuously and steal a whole profession mechaninc and putting it at his advantage.

sorrow.2364:

Zacchary.6183:

How about we complain about the thief moving too much, eh? I mean everyone already kittened stealth to death and now that we have something to work with you guys come one here again to complain about it.

If every thief agreed to just stand there and die for you for an entire week would that satisfy you and the crowd you indirectly assotiate with so I don’t have to come on here and see, “OMFGTHIEFKILLDME! NERFIT!!!@#RC”?

For kitten’s sake, this kitten is getting old.

Has anyone here complained about Thief mobility? I don’t think so.
People here are complaining about the fact that Thieves can just mash tkittenutton continuously and steal a whole profession mechaninc and putting it at his advantage.

This ^^

sorrow.2364:

Zacchary.6183:

How about we complain about the thief moving too much, eh? I mean everyone already kittened stealth to death and now that we have something to work with you guys come one here again to complain about it.

If every thief agreed to just stand there and die for you for an entire week would that satisfy you and the crowd you indirectly assotiate with so I don’t have to come on here and see, “OMFGTHIEFKILLDME! NERFIT!!!@#RC”?

For kitten’s sake, this kitten is getting old.

Has anyone here complained about Thief mobility? I don’t think so.
People here are complaining about the fact that Thieves can just mash tkittenutton continuously and steal a whole profession mechaninc and putting it at his advantage.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Thief-too-much-evade-cleanse-and-port/page/2#post2010741

Yeah I dont think so too.

EDIT: If you really wanted to complain about thieves you could have done it on other forums. Thief forums have enough QQ threads so do us a boon and go somewhere else.

Zacchary.6183:

sorrow.2364:

Zacchary.6183:

How about we complain about the thief moving too much, eh? I mean everyone already kittened stealth to death and now that we have something to work with you guys come one here again to complain about it.

If every thief agreed to just stand there and die for you for an entire week would that satisfy you and the crowd you indirectly assotiate with so I don’t have to come on here and see, “OMFGTHIEFKILLDME! NERFIT!!!@#RC”?

For kitten’s sake, this kitten is getting old.

Has anyone here complained about Thief mobility? I don’t think so.
People here are complaining about the fact that Thieves can just mash tkittenutton continuously and steal a whole profession mechaninc and putting it at his advantage.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Thief-too-much-evade-cleanse-and-port/page/2#post2010741

Yeah I dont think so too.

EDIT: If you really wanted to complain about thieves you could have done it on other forums. Thief forums have enough QQ threads so do us a boon and go somewhere else.

This ^^

I really don’t understand this whole complaint. I get that getting killed instantly by a D/D BV+CnD+Mug+BS combo back in the day was unfair (though I still die just as quickly to burst warriors and mesmers so…), but even if I’m fighting a boon heavy build and stealing from them, the fight lasts a long time. This means that the other player has myriad chances to come back. I’ve found a couple of things: 1) if the other player is better than me, I will lose, 2) if I make mistakes, even when fighting someone worse than me, I will lose. Boon stealing (FS/LS) is not ever a win button.

tac.2167:

I really don’t understand this whole complaint. I get that getting killed instantly by a D/D BV+CnD+Mug+BS combo back in the day was unfair (though I still die just as quickly to burst warriors and mesmers so…), but even if I’m fighting a boon heavy build and stealing from them, the fight lasts a long time. This means that the other player has myriad chances to come back. I’ve found a couple of things: 1) if the other player is better than me, I will lose, 2) if I make mistakes, even when fighting someone worse than me, I will lose. Boon stealing (FS/LS) is not ever a win button.

This.

I can’t agree more.

sorrow.2364:

evilapprentice.6379:

Real quick!
Since you’re obviously intimately experienced with thief mechanics!
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides KB/KD/Blowout
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides daze over .5s
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides fear
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides Daze over .5
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides immobilize over 1s.

That list looking a little light? I wonder why?.

Because having easy to access CC on initiative would be incredibly broken, I just imagine all thieves running CC spamming with high initiative regen builds… Then I immagine people complaining about that and Thieves answering “Just dodge it” (realistic, don’t you say?).

Obviously that doesn’t mean that you have no access to CC at all.

- When you steal from Guardian, you get 4s of Daze. No other profession in this game have such an high daze duration.
- When you steal from Necro you have up to 3s fear.
- You have Tactical Strike from Sword that Daze for 1.5s, which isn’t that bad considering that it can be potentially used every kitten .
- You have 4s of immobilization from Devourer Venom.
- You have 1.5s of stun from Basilisk Venom

Not to say how crucial can be a CC in the right time considering how much damage a Thief is capable to do in a couple of seconds.

Anyway, I don’t know why you posted that list as an answer to what Atherakhia said.
Initiative system encourage mindless spamming and unskilled play as it is now.
Giving too much utility on a single skill and on low initiative cost of course will encourage everyone to use that skill over and over and to use the whole initiative pool on that skill. FS has everything in it. Boon stealing, evade and damage. Why everyone would bother to use any other skill in the bar if everything is on FS?
This is the design flaws people are talking about.

I also don’t understand people saying that Thieves are easy to control through CC, specially S/D thieves. They have a stunbreaker on initiative, plus they have the most reliable set of stunbreakers in the game (somebody said Shadowstep with 2 stunbreaks in 50s?). I think Thief is the profession which suffer from stuns the least.

Hmm, I wonder why you chose to quote only my first post , but not the second one? Is it because I said the exact same thing you said, but actually using my full, clear opinion wouldn’t allow you to pretend like you had a point with that first paragraph? I bet it is, because not having a real point and making one up out of thin air seems to be your style, as far as I can tell.

I’m done with you – I’ve only been interacting with you on the board for 2-3 days an this is at least the 5th time you’ve done/said something disingenuous or dishonest because you don’t have anything real or serious to contribute. Go back in your cave, troll.

evilapprentice.6379:

Hmm, I wonder why you chose to quote only the first section of my post, but not the rest? Is it because I said the exact same thing you said, but actually using my full quote wouldn’t allow you to pretend like you had a point with that first paragraph? I bet it is, because not having a real point and making one up out of thin air seems to be your style, as far as I can tell.

I’m done with you – I’ve only been interacting with you on the board for 2-3 days an this is at least the 5th time you’ve done/said something disingenuous or dishonest because you don’t have anything real or serious to contribute. Go back in your cave, troll.

Oh my, offend more?
I’ve quoted your whole post. That was an answer to someone who said that the initiative system is bad designed, while you said it was a debunked argument.

Where exactly do we said the same thing? I haven’t said that the initiative system is fine because there are no CC on initiative. Was that what you tried to say? Or your post was completely out of context?

tac.2167:

I really don’t understand this whole complaint. I get that getting killed instantly by a D/D BV+CnD+Mug+BS combo back in the day was unfair (though I still die just as quickly to burst warriors and mesmers so…), but even if I’m fighting a boon heavy build and stealing from them, the fight lasts a long time. This means that the other player has myriad chances to come back. I’ve found a couple of things: 1) if the other player is better than me, I will lose, 2) if I make mistakes, even when fighting someone worse than me, I will lose. Boon stealing (FS/LS) is not ever a win button.

So a skill to be considered imbalanced has to be an “I win” button?
Well, this says much about the average balance of this game.

…. have u seen mesmer? do u know how long it takes for a s/d thief to kill a backpaddling noob mesmer? thief is not even close to broken as mesmers, why do u think all top teams play without thief,warr and necro? Because the other professions are stronger. Why do u think the mesmers, engis and eles won in the 1 v1 tourny? becasue they are better. All i have to say is that other thief builds needs a buff and s/d should stay as it is. L2p mesmers…. i know u are used to insta win and as soon as u have to do more then 1shatter and 1 blurred u whine.

[quote=2139696;sorrow.2364:]

sorrow.2364:

evilapprentice.6379:

Real quick!
Since you’re obviously intimately experienced with thief mechanics!
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides KB/KD/Blowout
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides daze over .5s
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides fear
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides Daze over .5
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides immobilize over 1s.

That list looking a little light? I wonder why?.

Because having easy to access CC on initiative would be incredibly broken, I just imagine all thieves running CC spamming with high initiative regen builds… Then I immagine people complaining about that and Thieves answering “Just dodge it” (realistic, don’t you say?).

Obviously that doesn’t mean that you have no access to CC at all.

- When you steal from Guardian, you get 4s of Daze. No other profession in this game have such an high daze duration.
- When you steal from Necro you have up to 3s fear.
- You have Tactical Strike from Sword that Daze for 1.5s, which isn’t that bad considering that it can be potentially used every kitten .
- You have 4s of immobilization from Devourer Venom.
- You have 1.5s of stun from Basilisk Venom

Not to say how crucial can be a CC in the right time considering how much damage a Thief is capable to do in a couple of seconds.

Anyway, I don’t know why you posted that list as an answer to what Atherakhia said.
Initiative system encourage mindless spamming and unskilled play as it is now.
Giving too much utility on a single skill and on low initiative cost of course will encourage everyone to use that skill over and over and to use the whole initiative pool on that skill. FS has everything in it. Boon stealing, evade and damage. Why everyone would bother to use any other skill in the bar if everything is on FS?
This is the design flaws people are talking about.

I also don’t understand people saying that Thieves are easy to control through CC, specially S/D thieves. They have a stunbreaker on initiative, plus they have the most reliable set of stunbreakers in the game (somebody said Shadowstep with 2 stunbreaks in 50s?). I think Thief is the profession which suffer from stuns the least.

you cant relate utility skills bc they have 0 to do with initiative. his point is you cant spam anything with initiative skills. also your cumulative math is wrong. they only add up to that on venom and other skills if ur hitting them once…then waiting….once it expires you hit them again…then wait…. nobody does this…they just hit hit hit hit hit hit and hit again all as fast as they can bc as a thief its a race to get their hp down before they can recover….if they can recover with heals etc fast enough you have 0 chance of killing.

devourer venom is more like 2.3 seconds instead of your suggested 4.

Fear is only 2 seconds instead of your 3 suggested.

i get ur point…our stolen daze is really nice….buty its totally circumstantial too…we dont have this or fear or any stolen skill on demand. and i usually end up missing daze steal about 2/3 times bc its soooooo slow you have to walk up and basically ask permisssion to use it lol. i mean its like ATLEAST a 1 sec activation.

CC is more than just stuns….so controling a thief by stacking Chill….cripple….stun…..daze….immobilize…..root….stone….KD…KB…blowout….pull/push and all the guardian/mesmer skills. a thief is quite easy to control. thats why thieves roam in fact. too much cc = no chance = death in 2-3 seconds. on my guardian…when people gang up 6 or 7 at a time. i can still survive 20-30 seconds. compared to 1-2 against the same amount. i know its bc of the class differences but if its 6-7 attacking my thief and they DONT use CC skills….they have a slim to none chance of stopping/killing me. i would probably kill all 7 if they didnt have CC’s.

Mackapacka.9462:

…. have u seen mesmer? do u know how long it takes for a s/d thief to kill a backpaddling noob mesmer? thief is not even close to broken as mesmers, why do u think all top teams play without thief,warr and necro? Because the other professions are stronger. Why do u think the mesmers, engis and eles won in the 1 v1 tourny? becasue they are better. All i have to say is that other thief builds needs a buff and s/d should stay as it is. L2p mesmers…. i know u are used to insta win and as soon as u have to do more then 1shatter and 1 blurred u whine.

well summed up. good points. used real facts. i like to see these comments …… not just for but against too. both sides of each argument should come like this. well said sir.

ohh and i got another great thing to tell thief haters, last sotg the devs talked about buffing necro and warr alot so there is a huge risk thief will end up to be lowest tier!

thieves already are in the lowest tier in alot of peoples ranks. i put them around 6th place
my rating is based on overall defense/offense mesh and group support plust sustainability in large fights and overall dmg going out in all fights plus small skirmish fights and also spvp/tpvp and a touch of pve ability. thief is prolly the worst in pve…..so 8th place….one of the two last place in tpvp….but in the top 2 for 1 v 1 or 1 v xing…..defense offense mesh is somewhere in the middle….group support is in bottom 2 and perhaps the worst…the only saving grace is group fury and group venoms.

sorrow.2364:

- When you steal from Guardian, you get 4s of Daze. No other profession in this game have such an high daze duration.
- When you steal from Necro you have up to 3s fear.
- You have Tactical Strike from Sword that Daze for 1.5s, which isn’t that bad considering that it can be potentially used every kitten .
- You have 4s of immobilization from Devourer Venom.
- You have 1.5s of stun from Basilisk Venom

While the steal from guardian is cool, Guardian is usually the profession that is the hardest to steal from as they can block it. They can also block the mace strike (and usually stolen skills end up used in the same fight you stole them, so probably the target will be the guardian). And you need Guardians around (something you can’t plan on as it depends on the opponent team) to get it. Samge goes for the necro fear, you need necros around and can’t always predict when/if you’re going to fight one so you can’t plan on those skills when making your build. Aditionally Steal is on a 45 seconds cooldown and chances are that when you find one of them the skill is on cooldown anyway. Steal is a nice bonus (except against Elementalist that gives you a crappy skill that most times you waste against thin air because it won’t help you much), but you can’t plan on it at all so you can’t say that the Thief has “access” to 4 second daze or 3 seconds fear because that doesn’t depend 100% on him.

Tactical Strike is for trolling and that’s all. It needs a lot of positioning (a mobile opponent won’t be dazed as it needs you to hit his back). The dps becomes crappy as you do the 5-1-1-1-5 sequence (which capitalizes your initiative if you plan on using it all the time) and the daze is really short in PvP anyway. LS was put there to make S/D competitive because the previous strategy was meant just for trolling and the effort/reward was really low. LS gives the Thief chances against bunker (they’re introducting different boon punish mechanics on different profession btw because they want to change the meta of bunker play) and gives a profession with lack of defensive boons a chance to get some if (and only if) he finds someone using defensive boons.

And about Devourer Venom: False. Despite Inmob is SUPPOSED to stack un duration, it doesn’t. So it’s just a 2 seconds (plus half second between both attacks? even less than 0.1 second if you’re using Sneak Attack) Inmob (until they fix the bug, but it has been around since release).

the thing about cooldowns vs initiative, is other classes wind up having “rotations” of skills, rather than spamming one skill. While this can pass as “skill” it still amounts to making sure you used all your skills on one weapon, then switching to another. There are of course more and less skillful ways of accomplishing this.

With initiative, the designed intent was to allow thieves to always have access to the best tools for a given situation. So no cooldowns means we can spam skills. Having the ability to spam skills also encourages us to do so, when one particular skill is the best for a given situation.

People complained about heartseeker spam, for example, but when an opponent is swifted, running away and low on health, heartseeker is the best tool (for d/d; as long as it doesn’t leave the thief overextended with no initiative), and spamming it makes sense.

spamming generally means one of four things,
1) there are no better uses for initiative in this moment, and there are no reasons to save it.
2) one skill is so much better than the others, that there is no reason to use them (one could make the argument that fs/ls fit this bill).
3) The other skills are so much worse, that it is not worth using them (one could also make an argument for why s/d should rarely use 4 and 5 skills).
4) The player is not thinking, and wasting initiative on the easy approach, rather than the right appraoch.

That 4th one is a dangerous trap for thieves, and it allows other players to exploit our mindless spamming by changing the situation so that continuing to spam is the wrong approach. Confusion vs s/d would be a good example of this (though, I think it was excessively nerfed, any other cc, like immobilize would also work well). Kiting and avoiding attacks while responding with ranged may also force the s/d thief to adapt or perish. Also consider that this gives Necros a much needed counter to at least one brand of thief…as they can turn boons into conditions.

S/D is fine. Its only really useful vs Guardians and Elementalists. D/P is far superior vs any other classes. If S/D were nerfed and with the Mug nerf in the past, thieves would have 0 way to bring down Bunker’s fast enough. A-net wanted boon hate, and we got it.

bobross.5034:

the thing about cooldowns vs initiative, is other classes wind up having “rotations” of skills, rather than spamming one skill. While this can pass as “skill” it still amounts to making sure you used all your skills on one weapon, then switching to another. There are of course more and less skillful ways of accomplishing this.

With initiative, the designed intent was to allow thieves to always have access to the best tools for a given situation. So no cooldowns means we can spam skills. Having the ability to spam skills also encourages us to do so, when one particular skill is the best for a given situation.

And in adition to that here is the trick to all of this: The Thief pays a costly price for his mechanic (unlike other professions that simply have a mechanic adding stuff to their game): While his mechanic allows him to focus into using the same skill multiple times, it’s in fact the profession with the less skill uses/time. The Thief is the only profession that can’t use 2-3-4-5 in sucession and once he’s depleted he either keeps using the low cost skills or wait more time for single uses of the costly skills (or simply keeps not using skills at all to be have half his initiative available for CnD and similar stuff). And this is without considering weapon swaps. Without swap the Thief is already the worst at skill usage (the only ones he can use frequently are the low cost initiative, which would be like other profession having 8 seconds cooldowns on all their skills and effects worth the 8 seconds instead of 25-40 seconds in all of them, so all regular stuff and nothing fancy). Once you factor weapon swap it’s ridiculous (and not to mention Elementalist 4*swap), but people still cry about spammability.

I’ve seen many times people saying: Skill X in Thief is like skill Y in other profession, but in Thief it’s much better because you can spam it. And they never think about the bad side of initiative that is having the lowest skill usage ratio in the whole game at the cost of being able to use 2 or 3 times the same skill (which aditionally forces all our CC skills to be really crappy as they’re spammable).

At the end initiative is just a different approach to cooldowns with pros and cons too.

The funny part is: Thieves already had “boon hate,” just not as often. Bountiful Theft, anyone? Now, I can admit that LS chaining + Bountiful is a nasty thing to sic on a Boon-loving enemy. But, let’s be honest here – most (long-term player) Thieves aren’t going to spam the heck outta LS, when they may just need a quick Infiltrator’s or CnD, in case you get a friend showing up to help you smack ’em down, or the boon-shredding proves to not be enough to kill you off.

As for Initiative mechanics, honestly: I rather wish ANet’d gone balls-out and used that in lieu of Cooldowns for all classes. IMO, it’d make for some very interesting tactics and skill-usage combinations. /shrug

Advent.6193:

As for Initiative mechanics, honestly: I rather wish ANet’d gone balls-out and used that in lieu of Cooldowns for all classes. IMO, it’d make for some very interesting tactics and skill-usage combinations. /shrug

If every class had the initative mechanic, the game wouldn’t be that different to Guild Wars 1 and other RPG’s with Mana / Energy. It is fine the way it is right now. Thieves are meant to be the burst class and the initative system that comes with the class fits perfectly into this.

Thieves can’t buttonmash their skills from 1 to 5 without restrictions, but rather have to decide, which skill is useful or worth to use in a particular situation. A thief running out of initative mostly is a dead thief. Actually the initative system restricts thieves to spike damage, because they got poor sustained damage once they run out of initative. Anet always promoted the class as a spike class – get in – spike – get out and thats exactly how the class works atm.

Sorry, ran a bit of topic, but a general initative like system for any class is no different than the concept of GW1. :|

Edit: The skill spamming also is a result of our unbalanced weapon sets, there are only a few skills worth using on each weaponset, because most of them were nerfed into oblivion. (maybe excluding d/p).

Let me get this straight, OP’s bunker build got busted by an S/D thief because all he knows is to stand rooted to the ground and hold a point? Larcenous Strike is not even that hard to avoid to begin with, the cast time is half a second with a pathetic range of 130 which is very hard to connect if the opponent is constantly moving. Perhaps you can learn to press the W key or the V key to avoid it? Also, you dont just spam 3 to win, the fact that you died to a spam 3 S/D thief, you have some serious l2p issues. A FS/LS initiative regeneration build has very little condition cleansing power and dies very easily from condition heavy classes. Thief is not a spam X key to win class and skill is required to make full use of all your spells as you have limited amount of initiative. Before you start QQing about thieves, how about you start reflecting and learn a way to actually counter them? Sick and tired of all this QQ.

bobross.5034:

the thing about cooldowns vs initiative, is other classes wind up having “rotations” of skills, rather than spamming one skill. While this can pass as “skill” it still amounts to making sure you used all your skills on one weapon, then switching to another. There are of course more and less skillful ways of accomplishing this.

With initiative, the designed intent was to allow thieves to always have access to the best tools for a given situation. So no cooldowns means we can spam skills. Having the ability to spam skills also encourages us to do so, when one particular skill is the best for a given situation.

People complained about heartseeker spam, for example, but when an opponent is swifted, running away and low on health, heartseeker is the best tool (for d/d; as long as it doesn’t leave the thief overextended with no initiative), and spamming it makes sense.

spamming generally means one of four things,
1) there are no better uses for initiative in this moment, and there are no reasons to save it.
2) one skill is so much better than the others, that there is no reason to use them (one could make the argument that fs/ls fit this bill).
3) The other skills are so much worse, that it is not worth using them (one could also make an argument for why s/d should rarely use 4 and 5 skills).
4) The player is not thinking, and wasting initiative on the easy approach, rather than the right appraoch.

That 4th one is a dangerous trap for thieves, and it allows other players to exploit our mindless spamming by changing the situation so that continuing to spam is the wrong approach. Confusion vs s/d would be a good example of this (though, I think it was excessively nerfed, any other cc, like immobilize would also work well). Kiting and avoiding attacks while responding with ranged may also force the s/d thief to adapt or perish. Also consider that this gives Necros a much needed counter to at least one brand of thief…as they can turn boons into conditions.

i dont think anyone with a brain could counter argue this. the only counter argument is that other classes might have access to spam choice. for a thief….with no boons no blocks no invulner and 90% reliant on dmg……its a good fit.

It’s OP lol, I love stealing the boons off a Warrior who JUST used his Elite Signet though XD

You could just walk away from the thief?

The #3 S/D skill is slower then the run animation. Literally just run in a straight line and the thief will never be able to hit you with it. He’ll be so busy spinning in 180 degree arcs and swinging at the air that he will be out of ini and completely incapacitated before you even get hit.

Also just stand near a ledge. The pathing is always the same, just stand with your back to a cliff and the thief will throw themselves off of it trying to steal a boon from you. No more thief.

It is probably the easiest skill in the game to avoid, I can’t really believe people are having problems with it, I think you are just trolling for the sake of it.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

You could just walk away from the thief?

The #3 S/D skill is slower then the run animation. Literally just run in a straight line and the thief will never be able to hit you with it. He’ll be so busy spinning in 180 degree arcs and swinging at the air that he will be out of ini and completely incapacitated before you even get hit.

Also just stand near a ledge. The pathing is always the same, just stand with your back to a cliff and the thief will throw themselves off of it trying to steal a boon from you. No more thief.

It is probably the easiest skill in the game to avoid, I can’t really believe people are having problems with it, I think you are just trolling for the sake of it.

That is one of the best FS justification I’ve ever heard.
After the patch, FS works pretty much like a leap. Don’t fool yourself.

What’s New?

Not much.

As I countless time been saying, Stealth Thief class was designed to be a Selfish and Self-Centered class

Obviously by now, many of you still refuse to accept that this class has no purpose for Team Support Play

My solution-

Banned them from any Team/Group Support Party.

Except of course PvP and WvW

Who Really Cares what they do,

They get away with everything and anything.

And wait!

Let’s not forget, they are the only Nerf Rewarding class in the game*.

And that’s not new

Travlane.5948:

sorrow.2364:

evilapprentice.6379:

Real quick!
Since you’re obviously intimately experienced with thief mechanics!
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides KB/KD/Blowout
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides daze over .5s
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides fear
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides Daze over .5
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides immobilize over 1s.

That list looking a little light? I wonder why?.

Because having easy to access CC on initiative would be incredibly broken, I just imagine all thieves running CC spamming with high initiative regen builds… Then I immagine people complaining about that and Thieves answering “Just dodge it” (realistic, don’t you say?).

Obviously that doesn’t mean that you have no access to CC at all.

- When you steal from Guardian, you get 4s of Daze. No other profession in this game have such an high daze duration.
- When you steal from Necro you have up to 3s fear.
- You have Tactical Strike from Sword that Daze for 1.5s, which isn’t that bad considering that it can be potentially used every kitten .
- You have 4s of immobilization from Devourer Venom.
- You have 1.5s of stun from Basilisk Venom

Not to say how crucial can be a CC in the right time considering how much damage a Thief is capable to do in a couple of seconds.

Anyway, I don’t know why you posted that list as an answer to what Atherakhia said.
Initiative system encourage mindless spamming and unskilled play as it is now.
Giving too much utility on a single skill and on low initiative cost of course will encourage everyone to use that skill over and over and to use the whole initiative pool on that skill. FS has everything in it. Boon stealing, evade and damage. Why everyone would bother to use any other skill in the bar if everything is on FS?
This is the design flaws people are talking about.

I also don’t understand people saying that Thieves are easy to control through CC, specially S/D thieves. They have a stunbreaker on initiative, plus they have the most reliable set of stunbreakers in the game (somebody said Shadowstep with 2 stunbreaks in 50s?). I think Thief is the profession which suffer from stuns the least.

you cant relate utility skills bc they have 0 to do with initiative. his point is you cant spam anything with initiative skills. also your cumulative math is wrong. they only add up to that on venom and other skills if ur hitting them once…then waiting….once it expires you hit them again…then wait…. nobody does this…they just hit hit hit hit hit hit and hit again all as fast as they can bc as a thief its a race to get their hp down before they can recover….if they can recover with heals etc fast enough you have 0 chance of killing.

devourer venom is more like 2.3 seconds instead of your suggested 4.

Fear is only 2 seconds instead of your 3 suggested.

i get ur point…our stolen daze is really nice….buty its totally circumstantial too…we dont have this or fear or any stolen skill on demand. and i usually end up missing daze steal about 2/3 times bc its soooooo slow you have to walk up and basically ask permisssion to use it lol. i mean its like ATLEAST a 1 sec activation.

CC is more than just stuns….so controling a thief by stacking Chill….cripple….stun…..daze….immobilize…..root….stone….KD…KB…blowout….pull/push and all the guardian/mesmer skills. a thief is quite easy to control. thats why thieves roam in fact. too much cc = no chance = death in 2-3 seconds. on my guardian…when people gang up 6 or 7 at a time. i can still survive 20-30 seconds. compared to 1-2 against the same amount. i know its bc of the class differences but if its 6-7 attacking my thief and they DONT use CC skills….they have a slim to none chance of stopping/killing me. i would probably kill all 7 if they didnt have CC’s.

Shows how truly spoiled you guys are lol , 1 sec cast time is like a few days to you guys…I do think they should buff thieves Sword MH to pre-nerf shortbow for Ranger , also increase the co efficient by 50%.

evilapprentice.6379:

Atherakhia.4086:

evilapprentice.6379:

Atherakhia.4086:

Arganthium.5638:

Atherakhia.4086:

Arganthium.5638:

Atherakhia.4086:

Larcenous strike should put a debuff on the target so they can’t gain new boons for 4 seconds. Then we wouldn’t need to spam it so often.

But you are right about one thing… the only legitimate complaint about thieves is how initiative regen is not balanced.

No.

Calculate the numbers for how much initiative we gain per second, and how much that benefits us, then compare with what other classes gain per second on their skills. Then tell me that it “isn’t balanced”.

The amount of time a thief can be stealthed and access to stealth isn’t balanced. Doesn’t mean the class has the tools to survive if it’s changed, because it doesn’t. But stealth in this game has got to be the dumbest implementation of it I’ve ever seen.

Just stop. Your post was about initiative regeneration, not stealth, and that’s what I replied to. Furthermore, stealth is almost detrimental to teams in PvP, and is easily countered in both WvW and PvP by practically just swinging your sword around and spamming AoE while running in random directions. It works.

The problem with stealth is the initiative regen you [censored].

So…you’re kittening about patience? The SA trait no thief takes because it’s kittening awful, pointless, and clearly inferior to any player who’s ever spent an hour on a thief in PvP?

I mean…that’s the only thing you could possibly be kittening about, because otherwise you’re kittening about the initiative system in general, which is an old, tired, debunked argument to begin with.

Debunked? Since when… it’s plain as day that the initiative system isn’t designed well and the fact that there are a dozen different skills and traits to regen initiative is the main issue behind the whole class. The simple fact is there probably shouldn’t be any.

Real quick!
Since you’re obviously intimately experienced with thief mechanics!
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides KB/KD/Blowout
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides daze over .5s
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides fear
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides Daze over .5
- Name every single thief weapon skill that provides immobilize over 1s.

That list looking a little light? I wonder why?.

I’m completely lost as I can’t make the connection between what you’re saying and what I said.

Are you somehow under the impression I think Thieves should have the initiative system gutted and nothing changed? I could have sworn I specifically said they’d have to rebuild the whole class to compensate for it.

The point I’m making is look where people complain most about the thief class..

Burst
Regen/Condi removal
Stealth

They’re all legitimate concerns but the root of all of them is the initiative system and nothing else.

Remove the initiative regen/cap increase from all skills and traits and then either give this class ranger level health or give it tools to compete. Things like what were on your list. This in addition to the sustained damage increase discussed in one of the prior state of the games and this class would be fairly well built where they could consider adding more fun things to flesh it out and increase its worth to group PvP and zergs.

Looks like I was right, they gave it higher initiative cost.

Complaining gets things done in this game.

Zacchary.6183:

How about we complain about the thief moving too much, eh? I mean everyone already kittened stealth to death and now that we have something to work with you guys come one here again to complain about it.

If every thief agreed to just stand there and die for you for an entire week would that satisfy you and the crowd you indirectly assotiate with so I don’t have to come on here and see, “OMFGTHIEFKILLDME! NERFIT!!!@#RC”?

For kitten’s sake, this kitten is getting old.

Breathing is OP, Thieves should just slowly suffocate after a match starts.

TRON.1085:

Looks like I was right, they gave it higher initiative cost.

Yeah I suppose when you cant improve in game, just become a better forum warrior, win your battles here and you dont have to be good in game.

Daecollo.9578:

Complaining gets things done in this game.

^^Unfortunately it seems to be the case

you necro your own thread from almost a month ago to gloat over 1 extra ini point worth of cost?

petty doesnt even come close…, either way your cluttering this forum with uselessness, reported.

Are you kittening kidding me right now? what the kitten you morons talking about thieves being OP, if one class can out last you chances are they have no kittening damage cause they are built around sustaining. S/D thieves are meant to annoy the kitten out of you, and are meant to caught you off guard when you use your boons.

Everytime I look into thieves’ forum all I see are a bunch of noobs QQ ing and crying. Its like they get nightmares when they go to sleep because they died from a thief in game. Look at mesmers and elementalists, even engineers if traited right. What boons do we have in our skills or traits that give us different range of boons like other classes? Nerf thieves please.

So this is only good against bunker builds? Viable in WvW?

Necro thread is win

Ive been playing gw2 for about 6 weeks now, thief only and im amazed at the amount of beef thieves are getting from other classes and fellow thieves. For the other classes if you cant beat them join them (create a thief) for the moaning thieves that say they arnt fun, well i think they are

they are stealing all my boons ! wtf !

Kryshade.6075:

Let me guess, you were in hotjoin and a thief stole your boons.

Must… resist urge to… make Skyrim reference…. SWEETROLLS!!!!

cough Sorry…

Is this really still a topic of discussion? I’ve been stealing boons with Bountiful Theft for ages, no one complained. Is it as spammable? No, but I do have it on near a 20 second cooldown, I don’t have to dedicate all of my initiative over to it, I can use whatever weapon I want, I share it with all of my friends and it’s not so predictable a chimp could see it coming.

But I guess I see why it’s a problem. I mean, what else is a S/D thief going to spam? Oh noes, look out for C&D > Tactical Strike!

I think the QQ about S/D thieves stopped after last update’s nerfs.

Wait wait wait wait, so a thief with a perma/spammable feature? NOWAY!

Clockwork Bard.3105:

I mean, what else is a S/D thief going to spam? Oh noes, look out for C&D > Tactical Strike!

If you get some stun duration you can almost completely stun lock someone with this, and it’s hilarious. You earn bonus points if you use bad gear and take a long time to stun lock them to death. Even more bonus points if you can incite someone to rage about being stun locked for 2 minutes, then dieing on the forums.

This skill is still too much because it can be spammed. Increase initiative cost!

Hitman.5829:

This skill is still too much because it can be spammed. Increase initiative cost!

Wow you’re even plaguing this Forum. Get outta here warrior fanboy

“Larcening strike now costs 18 initiative.”

oxtred.7658:

“Larcening strike now costs 18 initiative.”

Larcenous Strike is now an elite. 100sec CD. 2sec cast time Steal 1 boon.

[skillbar] [Warrior]: Necropost
Ability to necropost something useless in the hope to see it nerfed in the next feature pack.
The warrior can still smash his face on the keyboard.

Their isnt ENOUGH boon striping, corrupting, destroying and stealing in the game, its the reason why those celestial might stacking builds are so good (cough op cough). If even a necromancer cant strip boons faster than a hambow or d/d ele with celestial can apply them than something is wrong.

quote and id like to see more boonstripping skills on thief’s steal.
It would be more important for the class becouse now imo is a bit underdeveloped.