Guild Wars 2

Karl McLain.5604:

Ricochet in its previous implementation is not slated to return at this time.
When the trait system was condensed, the standard was set in that each weapon set could only have one trait. Being that a player might want to receive increased damage from pistols, but not necessarily inherit the RNG bounce attacks from the secondary trait, this secondary trait was cut.
I will say though that pistols are something we’ll be looking to improve, being as they feel under-tuned at the moment.

-Karl

Ricochet shouldn’t be a trait anyway, it should be part of Unload. P/P is the only weapon set that trait for Ricochet so it only makes sense to add it to Unload. It will greatly improve the weaponset also.

Xovian.8572:

Slowmelt.8547:

Xovian.8572:

Won’t happen. Weapon Swap Sigils would easily be abused by this.

See:

The only problem with that is on-weapon-swap abilities, and they can just be given a reasonable ICD easily enough.

It’s really easy to fix.

And something else they wont waste time doing.

Making the Thief better is not a waste of time… not even if Arenanet seems to think so.

Slowmelt.8547:

Xovian.8572:

Slowmelt.8547:

Xovian.8572:

Won’t happen. Weapon Swap Sigils would easily be abused by this.

See:

The only problem with that is on-weapon-swap abilities, and they can just be given a reasonable ICD easily enough.

It’s really easy to fix.

And something else they wont waste time doing.

Making the Thief better is not a waste of time… not even if Arenanet seems to think so.

Not really sure why you decided to argue with me, you’re preaching to the choir here.
But i have expectations like everyone else here, mine just happen to be very low, but its been earned.

At least Karl acknowledged that pistols need help. first thing I would do is make them 1200 range, —-—considering we are the only profession in game that has no 1200 range weapon.—— Even with DareDevil we get no 1200. Sure steal is 1200. But who wants to steal into a Boss who has a huge PB aoe and cleave?

Karl McLain.5604:

Ricochet in its previous implementation is not slated to return at this time.
When the trait system was condensed, the standard was set in that each weapon set could only have one trait. Being that a player might want to receive increased damage from pistols, but not necessarily inherit the RNG bounce attacks from the secondary trait, this secondary trait was cut.
I will say though that pistols are something we’ll be looking to improve, being as they feel under-tuned at the moment.

-Karl

Vital Shot is 80% of the problem. It has been from day one. It’s frustrating that this has gone unchanged and unmentioned until now for 3 years. Having a weak auto attack and significant damage only coming Unload, which is an initiative hog that also hampers mobility, completely breaks the general playability of the set. Vital Shot needs to do enough damage to provide a sustainable baseline DPS so that you aren’t constantly locked out of the utility the set does provide or left doing no substantial DPS because you had to use your Initiative for a few blinds. It’s less of an issue for P/D because Vital Shot’s weakness is masked by the the mostly condition damage coming from other sources.

Unload should serve a more utilitarian purpose so that other skills can compete with it and it doesn’t step so much on the auto attack’s toes. With Ricochet not making a return, perhaps an AoE is in order?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Karl McLain.5604:

Ricochet in its previous implementation is not slated to return at this time.
When the trait system was condensed, the standard was set in that each weapon set could only have one trait. Being that a player might want to receive increased damage from pistols, but not necessarily inherit the RNG bounce attacks from the secondary trait, this secondary trait was cut.
I will say though that pistols are something we’ll be looking to improve, being as they feel under-tuned at the moment.

-Karl

Ricochet shouldn’t be a trait anyway, it should be part of Unload. P/P is the only weapon set that trait for Ricochet so it only makes sense to add it to Unload. It will greatly improve the weaponset also.

I’ve been saying for over 2 years they need to buff/realign Vital Shot (increase physical damage by about 50%, decrease bleed damage by about 25%, make it the opposite of the sneak attack) and rework Unload as an AoE. It makes by far more sense than anything else short of a complete overhaul to the entire set.

Einlanzer.1627:

I’ve been saying for over 2 years they need to buff/realign Vital Shot (increase physical damage by about 50%, decrease bleed damage by about 25%, make it the opposite of the sneak attack) and rework Unload as an AoE. It makes by far more sense than anything else short of a complete overhaul to the entire set.

If it’s an aimed AoE like a bow shot, no thanks. If it’s an AoE around my targeted enemy, maybe. I don’t want my target taking 2 steps to the left (and then a step to the right) and leaving the AoE.

Pistol #1 and #2 need a redesign something fierce. They’re both hot garbage, and a lot of what is holding P/P—and Pistol specs in general—back.

Karl McLain.5604:

When the trait system was condensed, the standard was set in that each weapon set could only have one trait. Being that a player might want to receive increased damage from pistols, but not necessarily inherit the RNG bounce attacks from the secondary trait, this secondary trait was cut.

This is my personal opinion, and it is not directed at any person in general. Also, I was never really a user of Ricochet.

That seems like a pretty poor standard. Yes, I understand the need for a standard in order to begin establishing any system or change, but that is only for a beginning. In order to achieve balance, everything must be evaluated for its own merit. Things should not be added/cut/buffed/nerfed because of a standard, it should only happen because it achieves balance.

Right now, balance does not exist. The chosen standard did not accomplish its objective. It was a bad decision to go that route, but that’s not the main problem. The true problem is Anet seems to be making a whole lot of bad decisions.

Ships can be righted, but it takes a different way of thinking. It also takes courage to acknowledge previous mistakes and accept responsibility. Honestly, I’m tired of politics and refusal to accept responsibility in every part of the world today. I just want somebody to stand up and HONESTLY say, “Hey, we made a mistake. We apologize. While the decisions we made were done so with the best of intentions, they were clearly wrong. We will now work to fix the problems the correct way. Thank you for your patience.”

There’s a big community here willing to help and make the game better. Please use it liberally… for every game mode, every profession, and every playstyle.

Einlanzer.1627:

…they need to buff/realign Vital Shot (increase physical damage by about 50%, decrease bleed damage by about 25%, make it the opposite of the sneak attack)…

I don’t agree with this though because it will nerf P/D condition build. Let’s suggest something that will not nerf some build for the sake of the other. We should suggest changes that will benefit both builds.

That’s kind of the problem… how do you support Vital Shot for both Power and Condition builds, when it’s currently terrible for both?

My vote is to up its physical damage and… mostly leave the Bleed intact actually, because Vital Shot has a pretty sad rate of Bleed application even WITH Superior Sigil of Earth slotted (which no one ever does anyway).

One obvious direction to go for supporting mainhand Pistol condition builds would be to give Thief a bleed on hit/crit trait like what Warrior and Engineer have in their trait lines. This would shift more of the Condition focus to traits rather than core weapon skills, which is probably the right direction for weapon design to go in general.

Amante.8109:

That’s kind of the problem… how do you support Vital Shot for both Power and Condition builds, when it’s currently terrible for both?

The first step is to improve the fire rate. Right now Vital Shot’s fire rate is pathetic and by simply increasing this rate, it would benefit both builds. An increase in fire rate is an increase in physical damage and bleeding stacks.

From that point on, they can tweak the numbers for Vital Shot — which I’m sure wouldn’t be necessary anymore.

That’s a really good point too. Ye GODS, is Vital Shot slow. Which makes it even easier for people to predict when it’s going to fire and either dodge or get out of its paltry 900 range (why isn’t Pistol range 1050 baseline again?)

I only suggested lowering the bleed damage because everyone complains that simply buffing Vital Shot will make P/D overpowered even though I don’t actually think it will.

So, yeah, I pretty much agree with just buffing Vital Shot straight out. At the very least, it needs to have a rate of fire closer to its activation speed. This is actually a problem with the Engi’s pistol also.

2 shots per second is terrible. it might work trying to lay on a bleed between sneak attacks but for a power build, coupled with that low damage it Unload or nothing,

1 , 2 and 3 is all that can be worked on really. If 3 is to be that high damage skill then 1 needs higher overall damage for when INI gone. 2 would seem the ideal position for the utility skill.

I can not see a port working as a skill in any of those slots as it would give p/d two ports and p/p users do not really want to port TO target.It can not be another damage slot as the INI system is not suited to multiple damage skills. It can not be a stealth as P/d has CnD for stealth. Blind is out daze is out.

i think increasing fire rate on vital shot a great idea. Than move vulnerability to Unload as the heavy hitter which can work in a condi build if desired. Then come up with something for number 2.

Vulnerabilty on unload would have better synergy with sundering strikes as well allowing you to get a lot of stacks on if going that route.

How would it be if we just changed the co-efficients for the pistol to be much higher. As a example then the power builds would get their damage and a small condition bonus. Likewise condition builds get their higher condition damage plus a small physical bonus. Obviously the numbers would have to be tweaked so celestial is’nt op. That way we have more variety. Then we can obviously get the actual skills looked at if needed.
Also making pistol shots bounce once or pierce shouldn’t hurt the “purity of pistols”, no rng needed.

I agree with people saying ricochet should just be baked in to unload.

Actually, an improved ricochet should be baked in to unload, removing the RNG and just giving each shot a bounce.

This doesn’t affect 1v1 balance, and it doesn’t impact the design of other pistol sets, but adds back something a lot of the people that liked to play P/P sorely miss.

Another decent buff to unload could be to make it a 100% physical projectile finisher. This would greatly increase its utility and make it’s initiative/damage cost much more reasonable. Dancing dagger has some really interesting interactions because of its 100% projectile finisher+bounce nature, but it fights for initiative on */D builds so it’s very situational.

If unload, however, had a baked in 100% projectile finisher and one bounce, it would give it some unique positional and combo play and mesh better with the condition focused #1, as 8-16 100% projectile finishers is a significant condition application combo, lifesteal combo, and is an otherwise unprecedented amount of utility or damage with the obvious drawback that thieves have quite limited access to damaging combo fields.

This would be thematic for the thief, considering we’re already the best finisher spam in the game, and if a lot of our group play intent was built more around being really good at exploiting combo fields while being slightly less good at throwing down the fields it could do a lot to make thieves desirable and fun to play in non-roaming roles for WvW and PvE

Karl McLain.5604:

…
I will say though that pistols are something we’ll be looking to improve, being as they feel under-tuned at the moment.

-Karl

Thank you for the hope you’ve given us, but could you elaborate more on when this might happen? This year, next year or next DLC after HOT?

Karl McLain.5604:

I will say though that pistols are something we’ll be looking to improve, being as they feel under-tuned at the moment.

-Karl

Thank you. I’m glad to hear that.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Karl McLain.5604:

I will say though that pistols are something we’ll be looking to improve, being as they feel under-tuned at the moment.

-Karl

Thank you. I’m glad to hear that.

They have said similar statements about other weapon sets countless times and have not delivered. It is like getting a “maybe” when asking a girl out. In essence P/P and Ricochet are now in the friend-zone.

I miss it tbh. Seeing a Headshot bounce three times was hilarious! Same with Unload and lucky rng against a ranger.

It’s a weak excuse, and the fact that the answer came 2 month after the patch, also no word in thief elite specc PoI, shows us how Anet thinks about thiefs . :sad:

I’ve also just checked all the traits in the CS line , or thief in general, compared to ALL other professions thiefs traits just see super weak.

Other traits have 5 lines of description what they are doing , and a really changin the way you can play the profession – but for thiefs its like ‘do 10% more crit dmg’ , ‘your crit’s have 50% chance of causing 1stack of vulnerability’ and so on … it’s just SAD !

I have to get out of thief class before I go ballistic.

Maybe increase the trait space, for example make minor traits selectable, so other traits can make a comeback, while others that have been baselined will now become optional (to reduce imbalance).

Azure.8670:

if you want to play P/P play engi. ITs actually great, unlike thief, its never been good… ever

That’s what they said about condi burn guardians before the recent changes when I said it in map chat. When they make it great, if ever, will those who dismiss P/P bleep bleep bleeep. PEOPLE ARE SHORT SIGHTED.

Shogun.7401:

I have to get out of thief class before I go ballistic.

You can try to go ballistic, but pistols suck.
It won’t really do anything.

HaxTester.9816:

Maybe increase the trait space, for example make minor traits selectable, so other traits can make a comeback, while others that have been baselined will now become optional (to reduce imbalance).

The amount of individual choices offered by the new Trait system is fine. The real problem is how many of the choices are poor ones, whether it’s due to iffy placement in the line or simply a badly designed trait.

As Thief, I never feel like I’m picking fun traits or discovering new builds anymore… nearly every trait choice comes down to one of two things: take the mandatory trait to not die (hi Shadow’s Embrace and Bountiful Theft), or all three choices are awful and you’re trying to find the least awful of them. Not a fun experience.

Amante.8109:

or all three choices are awful and you’re trying to find the least awful of them.

This.
I have this problem with Deadly Arts, where I’m just trying to find anything sorta useful to me.
I have Panic Strike just because I don’t use Traps or Stealth.

Something else has also just occurred to me.

If RNG is bad, why is Improvisation a thing?
I’ve never even heard of anyone using it, on any build, because it’s too unpredictable to be useful.

I mean, I get that it’s on-theme for Improvisation to be a bit strange and off-the-wall, but it doesn’t jive with the stated mechanical goal of removing RNG.
What makes this RNG better than the Ricochet RNG?

Slowmelt.8547:

Something else has also just occurred to me.

If RNG is bad, why is Improvisation a thing?
I’ve never even heard of anyone using it, on any build, because it’s too unpredictable to be useful.

I mean, I get that it’s on-theme for Improvisation to be a bit strange and off-the-wall, but it doesn’t jive with the stated mechanical goal of removing RNG.
What makes this RNG better than the Ricochet RNG?

Crit chance/damage is RNG and they have plenty of on chance mechanic in the game overall so RNG is not answer to think of. GW2 is RNG.

Slowmelt.8547:

If RNG is bad, why is Improvisation a thing?
I’ve never even heard of anyone using it, on any build, because it’s too unpredictable to be useful.

I like it a lot, personally. It’s more of a placement issue as mentioned above—are you really going to pass up on Executioner for Improvisation? Probably not. It also doesn’t help that we have such a rigid, unchanging set of utilities that must to go on our bar right now. If we had more options, there would be more viable Improv fodder.

In terms of how the developers view it, I think they see it as a different kind of RNG (and it is). Their rationale on Ricochet was that some people just wanted it for the range increase and found the cleave’s randomness detrimental to their playstyle. An overestimated problem perhaps, but that was their reasoning, and it’s obviously a different kind of case than Improvisation is.

Geiir.7603:

I miss it tbh. Seeing a Headshot bounce three times was hilarious! Same with Unload and lucky rng against a ranger.

Ricochet never bounced to a previously hit target, so I’m not sure why the ranger is significant.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Geiir.7603:

I miss it tbh. Seeing a Headshot bounce three times was hilarious! Same with Unload and lucky rng against a ranger.

Ricochet never bounced to a previously hit target, so I’m not sure why the ranger is significant.

Thieves are so weak that we actually have to worry about Ranger Pets, unlike literally everyone else. Stunning them both was nice.

Slowmelt.8547:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Geiir.7603:

I miss it tbh. Seeing a Headshot bounce three times was hilarious! Same with Unload and lucky rng against a ranger.

Ricochet never bounced to a previously hit target, so I’m not sure why the ranger is significant.

Thieves are so weak that we actually have to worry about Ranger Pets, unlike literally everyone else. Stunning them both was nice.

Haha lulz the ranger pet.

Slowmelt.8547:

Something else has also just occurred to me.

If RNG is bad, why is Improvisation a thing?
I’ve never even heard of anyone using it, on any build, because it’s too unpredictable to be useful.

A little out of topic but to answer this particular question:

I use improvisation in both pvp & wvw, and imho it’s way better and funnier to play with than executionner.
Executioner increase your damage by 20% when your foe hp goes under 50%. Fine, you deal more damage and hope killing your foe as fast as possible when he is low hp.

The improv on the other hand, give you more mobility (resetting withdraw OR shadowstep + Shadow refuge OR a signet – agility for me -, or CC with basilisk venom) and more sustain with the doubled stolen spell.

Imagine the face of the guy who sees you shadowstep or SR twice in a few seconds, or even better, use your heal twice in a row.

To be efficient, this build require to steal on class with interesting stolen spell. For example in a Wvw group fight context, I find particularly fun to steal a war, and take down a whole bunch of caster with a well timed tpcast double whirling axe. Or on a mesmer, and have all boons twice.

It’s definitely a gameplay choice, but since i tried this build out, i’d never go back to executioner again.

Linfang.1087:

At least Karl acknowledged that pistols need help. first thing I would do is make them 1200 range, —-—considering we are the only profession in game that has no 1200 range weapon.—— Even with DareDevil we get no 1200. Sure steal is 1200. But who wants to steal into a Boss who has a huge PB aoe and cleave?

Stealth + 1200 = OP

Look, I love pistols and want to see them buffed, but making thieves into snipers is idiotic for the game. A whole bunch of fishbowl warriors looking to see who dips their hand into the bowl to try to get the stupid little GWENs swimming around.

Personally I think the pistol stealth attack needs to be changed to moar damage and cripple, not bleed. That will synergize with the trait.

jaif.3518:

Linfang.1087:

At least Karl acknowledged that pistols need help. first thing I would do is make them 1200 range, —-—considering we are the only profession in game that has no 1200 range weapon.—— Even with DareDevil we get no 1200. Sure steal is 1200. But who wants to steal into a Boss who has a huge PB aoe and cleave?

Stealth + 1200 = OP

Look, I love pistols and want to see them buffed, but making thieves into snipers is idiotic for the game. A whole bunch of fishbowl warriors looking to see who dips their hand into the bowl to try to get the stupid little GWENs swimming around.

Personally I think the pistol stealth attack needs to be changed to moar damage and cripple, not bleed. That will synergize with the trait.

We’ve got all the cripple we need, thank you. We need damage.

Your statement about invis+1200 is silly. We’re already snipers. Not being able to see us while we line up a shot is exactly what is happening right now. Everyone has a ranged weapon that could hit us at 1200 and at our current range. You can’t see us now and you are in range to respond in kind. So what about the range and invisibility is an issue?

Sagat.3285:

Slowmelt.8547:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Geiir.7603:

I miss it tbh. Seeing a Headshot bounce three times was hilarious! Same with Unload and lucky rng against a ranger.

Ricochet never bounced to a previously hit target, so I’m not sure why the ranger is significant.

Thieves are so weak that we actually have to worry about Ranger Pets, unlike literally everyone else. Stunning them both was nice.

Haha lulz the ranger pet.

Being a non-Stealthing Thief is true suffering.
In PvP, Rangers don’t even bother to fight me. They sic their pet on me to keep me fighting for my life while they deal with the real professions… and the worst part is that it works.
It takes me two full Pistol Whips to down a Ranger pet, and in that time I’ll have taken a bunch of damage from the pet and AOEs, not to mention a ton of time.

Thief is pathetic…

Yes I wish the pistol could have this trait again or at least my suggestion (read below). Dual wielding pistols is simply awesome looking. But when you can only hit 1 enemy at a time for low auto attack damage it makes me a sad panda. I think the auto attack should pierce targets. I don’t think the others need to pierce as #3 feels more like a single target attack to me as do the others. Piercing 3 targets seems appropriate.

By “under-tuned” do you mean that you will tune it by just adjusting numbers?

Your statement about invis+1200 is silly. We’re already snipers. Not being able to see us while we line up a shot is exactly what is happening right now. Everyone has a ranged weapon that could hit us at 1200 and at our current range. You can’t see us now and you are in range to respond in kind. So what about the range and invisibility is an issue?

Because at range 1200 a well-built stealthing thief will never get hit. Nobody could line up AoEs to reveal, nobody could click on us fast enough to use their reveal power. We would be the fishbowl warriors I was saying – everyone is a fish in a bowl, and we reach our hands in with impunity and pull them out.

Even if revealed, at range 1200 it’s no issue to dodge a couple of times and get out. Nobody would ever land a blow.

-Jeff

Why isn’t anyone suggesting pistol auto-attack to change into combo like daggers for exaple? First attack is like opener, more damage, no bleed, second in chain can be added bleed, third could be short daze or something more fancy (the more bullets you fire into something, the better chance to stop them if they run towards you, or some kind of idea like that behind the autoattack). It would add quite a bit of depth.
And unload with baseline Ricochet would make other skills even more useless. Rather, buff skills 2 and 4.
2 could be small radius AoE with cripple and 4 could be piercing with more initiative cost, possibly longer range than other skills and much more damage (it’s HEAD shot after all). Maybe even add small pushback or knockdown while at the same time making it cost like 8, 9 initiative. pretty sure something like that wouldn’t be a problem if that skill was really useful and actually mattered when used.

Pistols need to be changed all together cause right now it’s 1,1,1,1,1,1, 3,3,3,1,1,1,1,3,1,1,1,1,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,3,3,3,3… you get the gist.

I was really looking forward to pistols when i started game and chose thief, but after realising how terrible and boring gameplay that is I just stopped bothering in coming up with some build that could not be terrible.

martin.1653:

Why isn’t anyone suggesting pistol auto-attack to change into combo like daggers for exaple? First attack is like opener, more damage, no bleed, second in chain can be added bleed, third could be short daze or something more fancy (the more bullets you fire into something, the better chance to stop them if they run towards you, or some kind of idea like that behind the autoattack). It would add quite a bit of depth.
And unload with baseline Ricochet would make other skills even more useless. Rather, buff skills 2 and 4.
2 could be small radius AoE with cripple and 4 could be piercing with more initiative cost, possibly longer range than other skills and much more damage (it’s HEAD shot after all). Maybe even add small pushback or knockdown while at the same time making it cost like 8, 9 initiative. pretty sure something like that wouldn’t be a problem if that skill was really useful and actually mattered when used.

Pistols need to be changed all together cause right now it’s 1,1,1,1,1,1, 3,3,3,1,1,1,1,3,1,1,1,1,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,3,3,3,3… you get the gist.

I was really looking forward to pistols when i started game and chose thief, but after realising how terrible and boring gameplay that is I just stopped bothering in coming up with some build that could not be terrible.

This can easily be fixed. A trait to reduce initative cost on pistol skills by 1 if and only if the player has 2 pistols equiped. This would mean that bodyshot gets a 25% buff, unload 20%, headshot 25%, black powder 17%, but only for people who run p/p. If they do this they can even up the baseline ini cost of unload to 6 if they only want to buff body shot, headshot and blackpowder for p/p.

Vital Shot and Body Shot are objectively terrible skills that need a complete redesign. Tweaking a number here or there won’t make them useful in their current form.

jaif.3518:

Your statement about invis+1200 is silly. We’re already snipers. Not being able to see us while we line up a shot is exactly what is happening right now. Everyone has a ranged weapon that could hit us at 1200 and at our current range. You can’t see us now and you are in range to respond in kind. So what about the range and invisibility is an issue?

Because at range 1200 a well-built stealthing thief will never get hit. Nobody could line up AoEs to reveal, nobody could click on us fast enough to use their reveal power. We would be the fishbowl warriors I was saying – everyone is a fish in a bowl, and we reach our hands in with impunity and pull them out.

Even if revealed, at range 1200 it’s no issue to dodge a couple of times and get out. Nobody would ever land a blow.

-Jeff

The only benefit the stealth thief gets is the first shot. He’s revealed once he fires. Every class has dodges and evades. They can dodge or move away as easily as the thief.

And what is the difference in the current situation? At 1050, he fires, is revealed, and can shadowstep out of range, RoI out of range, dodge out of range, etc. The reveal abilities that other classes have are active out to 1200 and 2000 currently, and appear to be ranged for the new specializations as well.

I’m still not seeing the issue.

Body shot is the key skill here to make p/p work.

This does not mean that 1 and 3 need no work. Those two can be tuned yet still retain the same basic function as in , increase the speed of vital shot as some suggested or increasing the damage component and moving vulnerability to #3 or integrating ricochet into it.

Number 2 is the one were we can use an entire revamp. This should be a skill that adds utility to the build or evasions or soemthing else significantly different than other weaponsets that makes this set standout on its own.

This does not preclude changes to traits but should remain the focal point of fixing this set in my opinion.

Niels.5396:

martin.1653:

Why isn’t anyone suggesting pistol auto-attack to change into combo like daggers for exaple? First attack is like opener, more damage, no bleed, second in chain can be added bleed, third could be short daze or something more fancy (the more bullets you fire into something, the better chance to stop them if they run towards you, or some kind of idea like that behind the autoattack). It would add quite a bit of depth.
And unload with baseline Ricochet would make other skills even more useless. Rather, buff skills 2 and 4.
2 could be small radius AoE with cripple and 4 could be piercing with more initiative cost, possibly longer range than other skills and much more damage (it’s HEAD shot after all). Maybe even add small pushback or knockdown while at the same time making it cost like 8, 9 initiative. pretty sure something like that wouldn’t be a problem if that skill was really useful and actually mattered when used.

Pistols need to be changed all together cause right now it’s 1,1,1,1,1,1, 3,3,3,1,1,1,1,3,1,1,1,1,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,3,3,3,3… you get the gist.

I was really looking forward to pistols when i started game and chose thief, but after realising how terrible and boring gameplay that is I just stopped bothering in coming up with some build that could not be terrible.

This can easily be fixed. A trait to reduce initative cost on pistol skills by 1 if and only if the player has 2 pistols equiped. This would mean that bodyshot gets a 25% buff, unload 20%, headshot 25%, black powder 17%, but only for people who run p/p. If they do this they can even up the baseline ini cost of unload to 6 if they only want to buff body shot, headshot and blackpowder for p/p.

An interesting idea. regain one INI when any skill used and equipped with two pistols. Even allowing this in the AA slot is not all that bad an idea.

Please don’t forget about this thread

Would a specialization that allowed us to use rifles and gave us a f skill to turn ricochet on/off (at the cost of damage) be kool or whut? One can always dream i guess….

Karl McLain.5604:

Ricochet in its previous implementation is not slated to return at this time.
When the trait system was condensed, the standard was set in that each weapon set could only have one trait. Being that a player might want to receive increased damage from pistols, but not necessarily inherit the RNG bounce attacks from the secondary trait, this secondary trait was cut.
I will say though that pistols are something we’ll be looking to improve, being as they feel under-tuned at the moment.

-Karl

The RNG was weird indeed so personally I don’t mind it being gone, the pistol skills still lack flexilibty and survivability though.