Guild Wars 2

I will try to comment without making any snide remarks, well here goes.

You choose to use divinity runes which is fine however I think not using them is generally a better choice. The damage you can gain from other runes is much better, as well as you could just use orbs/crests for stats. Its likely you won’t even notice most of the stats gained from divinity. +60 to all stats is ok but not great, 12% crit damage however is quite nice.

Thats for the 10/30/30/0/0 build btw. This improves both surivability and damage while lowering costs for useless runes (I lost, snide comment right here).

Also I don’t get why people use fire sigils over air unless there is some kinda bug I don’t know about. As D/D in general is a for single targets using sigil of fire would lower dps compared to air even though it can damage a larger audience. Edit: I don’t mean loss of dps, just that the small splash of damage from sigil of fire (even smaller since the lack of power and lack of crit ability) is going to be negligible when used on targets other than your main one. Not that air does a considerable amount higher or anything it just is more noticeable on a target you’re applying pressure to.

Add more sound effects to The Minstrel plz.

(edited 2013-06-12 07:25:20 by WonderfulCT.6278)

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Posted by: wish.1027

Fire is because its AOE, and Im always fighting more than 1 person. But youre right, for 1on1 Lightning strike is better.

As for the Scholar runes, its a nice try, but seriously, even taking 1 hit, you wont be above 90% HP, and then that builds Effective Power drops to 4879, and it loses. When fighting skilled players (when it matters) you will not gain that benefit, and I refuse to use stuff that is to uncontrollably situational like that. I assume most people agree with me as well, for those that dont though, or those that dont take damage ever, your suggestion is very good. Your rune choice is for the instagibbing thieves of the world. But come back at me with another try, thats the only way we will learn and progress.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-12 07:01:48 by wish.1027)

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Posted by: WonderfulCT.6278

wish.1027:
Fire is because its AOE, and Im always fighting more than 1 person. But youre right, for 1on1 Lightning strike is better.

As for the Scholar runes, its a nice try, but seriously, even taking 1 hit, you wont be above 90% HP, and then that builds Effective Power drops to 4879, and it loses. When fighting skilled players (when it matters) you will not gain that benefit, and I refuse to use stuff that is to uncontrollably situational like that. I assume most people agree with me as well, for those that dont though, or those that dont take damage ever, your suggestion is very good. Your rune choice is for the instagibbing thieves of the world. But come back at me with another try, thats the only way we will learn and progress.

Well I never really knew if this was for WvW (if so how large the encounters) or sPvP, however I do run scholar runes (with a more glassy build) with a soldier set and it does work quite effectively. Edit: In WvW.

Add more sound effects to The Minstrel plz.

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Posted by: wish.1027

WonderfulCT.6278:
Well I never really knew if this was for WvW (if so how large the encounters) or sPvP, however I do run scholar runes (with a more glassy build) with a soldier set and it does work quite effectively. Edit: In WvW.

Its just for discussion of balanced builds. I dont really care if you use it in PVE or WvW though. sPVP dont have any of the gear I listed in the builds, or the foods though, lol.

this thread is for discussion of balanced builds to determine the best possible stat combination.

I simply pointed out that the only time it really matters (WvW when youre fighting someone worth half a crap) you wont gain the scholar rune benefit since you wont instagib them and theyll hit you back. For PVE I’d advise full berserker and scholar runes though.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

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Posted by: WonderfulCT.6278

wish.1027:
WonderfulCT.6278:
Well I never really knew if this was for WvW (if so how large the encounters) or sPvP, however I do run scholar runes (with a more glassy build) with a soldier set and it does work quite effectively. Edit: In WvW.

Its just for discussion of balanced builds. I dont really care if you use it in PVE or WvW though. sPVP dont have any of the gear I listed in the builds, or the foods though, lol.

this thread is for discussion of balanced builds to determine the best possible stat combination.

I simply pointed out that the only time it really matters (WvW when youre fighting someone worth half a crap) you wont gain the scholar rune benefit since you wont instagib them and theyll hit you back. For PVE I’d advise full berserker and scholar runes though.

I’m not trying to one-up you or anything like that, I said that’s just if going for a mathematical improvement, obviously there are things the site does not take into account with its numbers.

That and I’m really biased towards divinity runes as you can probably tell.

From personal experience though you definately get benefit from the 10% above 90% more than just after you get hit the first time. Shadow’s rejuvenation along with hide in shadows and shadow refuge will allow you some good opportunities for high damaging moments. Also when running with help (non-thieves make good distractions) it is a lot easier to pop in and out delivering a quick few hits once in a while without taking damage and that 10% really helps.

Add more sound effects to The Minstrel plz.

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Posted by: laquito.5269

laquito.5269

Nice work, maybe I’ll overthink my current build as I got some new ideas through yours. This is the setup I’m currently heading for:

Weird distribution at the trinkets, but I couldn’t think of a better way to maintain 2k7 armor while having high crit damage. Still not 100 percent happy with it though.

I’m currently trying a valkyrie/berserker gc build atm (somewhat like Yishis), and I really gotta say that it works quite well despite having 2.2k armor, just love the backstabs with 112 crit damage and I can even survive a GC combo with 18kish HP. So I might drop some toughness for more offense.

Anway, I’ll probably head towards 2,5k armor and a bit more vitality (apparently Vitality > Toughness) through valkyrie gear, I just feel that balancing out a 10/30/30 setup is a lot easier, but ever since the mug nerf it’s simply not worth it anymore. :[

Retired GW2 Player

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Posted by: Zumy.6318

Zumy.6318

My build. On full bloodlust its even more.
Better trade for my needs, in my eyes.

Zumys Fall (0 30 30 10 0)
Effective Power 4767.94
Effective Health (EHP) 23061
Damage Reduction 30.85%
Reference Armor 1836

Thief | Zumy [Buka]
Legendary counter: Twilight, Bolt, Incinerator, Incinerator Nr. 2, Meteorlogicus, The Dreamer

(edited 2013-06-12 10:15:15 by Zumy.6318)

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Posted by: Rastaman.9015

Rastaman.9015

SPLENDID!! I just recently started getting into use S/D as my secondary and this build (Wish fall) Fits me the best. I use the same traits and utilities the only thing different was the armor types. Which really intrigued me I never thought of mixing soldiers and berserkers instead of the valkyrie set up. Bravo!

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Posted by: purgatoryz.6038

purgatoryz.6038

Good combination of Soldier’s and Berserker armor/weapons, though this set is ridiculously expensive to obtain because of the divinity runes and fire sigils.

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Posted by: wish.1027

Zumy.6318:
My build. On full bloodlust its even more.

We’re just assuming everyone knows to have a second weapon set that includes bloodlust sigils, and not talking about it.

Zumy.6318:
Zumys Fall (0 30 30 10 0)
Effective Power 4767.94
Effective Health (EHP) 23061
Damage Reduction 30.85%
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1g.h2.8.1g.h17|c.1g.h4.8.1g.h17|1c.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j.1c.71j|2t.d13.2t.d13.3s.d17.2v.0.2s.d13.2s.d13|0.u36c.u46b.a1.0|39.1|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e

The toughness is lower in both of these, (Hense the lower damage reduction ) but I increased your overall EHP and damage. Also, I preffer the second set. Maybe use 1 valk weapon and 1 soldiers weapon if you want less EHP, here’s what it looks like with that:
Effective Power 4871.45
Effective Health (EHP) 22914
Damage Reduction 28.17

purgatoryz.6038:
Good combination of Soldier’s and Berserker armor/weapons, though this set is ridiculously expensive to obtain because of the divinity runes and fire sigils.

And you didnt even notice how much the foods cost!

WonderfulCT.6278:
I’m not trying to one-up you or anything like that

Please, one up me. This is what I found to be the best, and if it’s not I want to know what is so I can switch.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-12 16:18:02 by wish.1027)

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Posted by: stinkypants.8419

stinkypants.8419

Thanks for getting this all together wish, really nice list. I just switched to a venom share build for Wv3, but this stuff is making me rethink that

Here it is, just for kicks -

Definitely for group Wv3 play.

(Alvyn | Crystal Desert )

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Posted by: wish.1027

Todays topic of conversation from me is going to be food. Specifically Butternut Squash soup stuffs, and omnomberry ghosts. Is 350 life steal every 3rd hit better than 10% crit damage and 1 crit chance?

Before I begin with math and explinations, let me start by saying how I believe ghosts work, and if you have any difference of opinion or notice any mistakes I may have made, please point them out. When ghosts activate, they remove an extra 350 HP from your opponent and give it to you. Creating a 700 HP swing in your favor. I believe it works this way, because for awhile, you could kill buffed WvW camp supervisors with the effect from life steal foods. While this isnt exactly the same as doing 700 damage, it has the same effect in the end, because youre up 350 and your opponent is down 350. Ghosts state that they have a 66% chance to steal life on crit, if we have a 50% crit chance (its actually 59~ from the back and 52~ from the front), then we can half that number and get 33% or 1 in 3 hits steals life. Since we’re slightly above 50% than we’re slightly above 1 in 3 hits steals life (like 34%). If we look at the basic thief rotation, Backstab > auto attack > Cloak and Dagger, it’s 6 hits. So we’ll generate a 1400 HP swing in our favor using omnom ghosts on average. (2 procs for 350 each, so 350*2=700 HP stolen, which means 700 gained as well, 700+700=1400)

When fighting something like a guardian with big defense and protection, the answer is that omnom ghosts obviously win. The less damage you do overall to your target the more useful a static damage increase number becomes over a % modifier. The question is when do they balance out and when does butternut curry become better.

To start with, lets determine the damage increase from 10% crit damage and 1% crit chance. To do this, we’ll take our damage (1) and multiply it by none-critchance (42 with ghosts) and take our crit damage (crits are +50% damage (1.5) to start, and we have 102 crit damage without curry so 2.52) and multiply it by our critchance (58 with ghosts) then add them together. Then we’ll divide that into the the same thing but with butternut squash’s stats added. This will give us a 1.xxxxx number, where xxxxx is the % increase.

So it looks like this:
(1*.42) + (2.52*.58)=1.8816
(1*.41) + (2.62*.59)=1.9558
1.9558/1.8816=1.0394345~
Or simply speaking, a 3.9% damage increase from +1 crit chance and +10% crit damage.

Now what we need to do is determine how much you need your rotation to hit for, for a 3.9% damage increase to be 1400 damage. To start, rather than determine what our averages would be or anything else, lets just use high end numbers and see what happens. Lets say our BS does 10k, auto attacks hit for 2k then 3k, and CnD does 5k. This is what you can expect to hit an uplevel or GC for in my experiance with crits, so we’ll go with this. But keep in mind, against a target with a clue, your numbers wont be this high, and the lower these numbers, the worse off butternut squash is.
10,000+2,000+3,000+3,000+5,000=23,000

23,000*1.0395=23908
Which is an 908 damage increase per rotation. Which is more than Ghosts actually just steal, but not by much. If you gain health from them, the ghosts clearly win, even when we use “Im attacking a glass cannon” type numbers for our damage.

Conclusion
So we know that butternut squash soup stuff is the best food for effective power increase, and we can see that if you take any damage at all omnom ghosts beat it, even when dealing with uplevels and glass cannons. So we have to base this on playstyle really. If you take any damage at all while fighting stuff, ghosts win. If you take 0 damage ever, Squash wins if youre fighting weak stuff. If all you do is CnD dagger and BS stuff, and nothing else, Squash wins.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-12 17:08:01 by wish.1027)

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Posted by: RedSpectrum.1975

RedSpectrum.1975

What runes do you recommend to sub for divinity’s? Surely there are stats that we focus on more than others.

Shawtell, Zen Verani, Rayshia Howen, Iyado, Colace Nzoir, Arteel Fyrien [Teef]

(edited 2013-06-12 17:46:30 by RedSpectrum.1975)

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Posted by: wish.1027

laquito.5269:
Nice work, maybe I’ll overthink my current build as I got some new ideas through yours. This is the setup I’m currently heading for:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|c.1c.h1h.8.1g.h2|8.1g.h1.8.1n.h17|1n.a7.1g.a7.1c.a7.1g.a7.1c.a7.1g.a7|4t.d1g.2v.d13.2u.d13.2s.d13.3t.d19.2u.d19|0.u36b.u64b.a0.0|39.7|57.5h.5c.5b.0|e

I didnt notice this post at first, sorry. But, the first thing I would do if I were you is remove the ascended soldiers backpiece. If youre using any berserker gear at all, ascended berserker back is the first thing you want to switch in. Its all about making effective trades for crit damage/defense and making sure all your gear has Power main stat IMO.
Effective Power 4806.14
Effective Health (EHP) 23487
Damage Reduction 29.92%
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1c.h2.8.1c.h17|c.1c.h4.8.1c.h17|1c.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j|2s.d13.2t.d13.2s.d13.2t.d13.2s.d13.2s.d13|0.u36c.u46b.a1.0|39.1|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e
This build has very close to your EHP and more damage, I would suggest using it honestly. But, if you want to increase the EHP so its higher than yours and still maintains superior EP, just switch the boots to soldiers.

RedSpectrum.1975:
What runes do you recommend to sub for divinity’s? Surely there are stats that we focus on more than others.

I don’t view money as difficult to make in this game. So I would say to spend 2 hours a day over a week farming to buy 2 bloodlust sigils, a flame blast and 6 divinity runes. Do COF P1 3x a day on 2 characters with omnom bars, and do HOTW p1 once everyday on 2 characters. And within a week youd have enough for all that stuff. Just remember to let 2 hours pass between characters when you do the runs. If you have to, go to sleep an hour early every night, and wake up an hour early and do one set of runs before work, and the second after work. If you only have 1 80, then youd have to spend 2 weeks doing this to make enough. (Remember to use your tokens on cheap rare heavy armor and use salvage kits on those items for ectos)

I used Beryl orbs while farming btw.

Also, COF P1x3 and HotW p1 should take an hour to do, even if you use pick up groups acquired on GW2LFG.com like I do. I dont view this as asking to much of someone. Even with 1 80 its 1 hour a day for 2 weeks to acquire enough gold for all of those items. And thats if you do nothing else at all to make any money.

EDIT: Maybe I should talk about the reason I use divinity runes. I view them as +40 useful stats and +2% crit damage each. I dont think any other runes in the game offer as much. Even orbs (beryl) are only 35 useful stats with 2% crit damage. The only other runes I could see being useful are Lyssa/Melandru/Ogre

Edit again: Superior rune of the Wurm might not be horrible either.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-12 17:53:48 by wish.1027)

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Posted by: wish.1027

Ya, Wurm and Ogre are both close, Wurm is further but maintains the crit rate, Ogre does more damage with less EHP, but is under 50% crit chance, and if you read about my food choices above, I use omnom ghosts, you’ll see why I dont agree with using Ogre. You need to keep your crit chance slightly above 50% no matter what IMO.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

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Posted by: laquito.5269

laquito.5269

wish.1027:
I didnt notice this post at first, sorry. But, the first thing I would do if I were you is remove the ascended soldiers backpiece. If youre using any berserker gear at all, ascended berserker back is the first thing you want to switch in. Its all about making effective trades for crit damage/defense and making sure all your gear has Power main stat IMO.
Effective Power 4806.14
Effective Health (EHP) 23487
Damage Reduction 29.92%
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1c.h2.8.1c.h17|c.1c.h4.8.1c.h17|1c.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j|2s.d13.2t.d13.2s.d13.2t.d13.2s.d13.2s.d13|0.u36c.u46b.a1.0|39.1|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e
This build has very close to your EHP and more damage, I would suggest using it honestly. But, if you want to increase the EHP so its higher than yours and still maintains superior EP, just switch the boots to soldiers.

Thanks! Guess I’ll really use yours then, as it’ll also make it easier for me to switch to even more offense & changing armor pieces aint that expensive (in comparison to trinkets). :P I’ve only bought a berserker amulet so far, still saving up laurels for the trinkets.

Keep up the good work.

Retired GW2 Player

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Posted by: WonderfulCT.6278

It’s very similar in stats your 0/30/30/10/0 build but a much smaller fraction of the costs.

It uses ruby orbs instead of divinity’s and less berserker pieces with one valkyrie one.

Edit: I recommend making the last piece soldiers as well but I was trying to keep the stats as close to OP’s as possible.

Add more sound effects to The Minstrel plz.

(edited 2013-06-12 23:50:09 by WonderfulCT.6278)

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Posted by: Rastaman.9015

Rastaman.9015

Well this forum has evolved. Nice number play I had to read it twice just to understand. In my experiences and from what i have seen D/D thieves do use the auto attack and they do get hit often. Based on your stats i’d say the ghosts would be better. It’s ironic, I have been looking into what foods I would like to use and this pretty much sums it up. Thanks and keep up the work!!

The class master. I enjoy all of the professions.

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Posted by: WonderfulCT.6278

This is my D/D SB build that i use in PvE and WvW

On the topic of Omnomberry ghosts I’m not sure if you know but they have an internal cooldown of 1 sec and steal 341 health (from the wiki). They are definately useful but I’ve never tried them to judge.

I recommend using power precision food which in this case would be plate of truffle steak. Also on the site this increases effective power over using butternut squash soup.

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Posted by: Sifu.6527

Sifu.6527

Be careful of using the calculator as it is very misleading.

For example, 5 points in CS gives you 5% crit chance when above 90% health. The calculator does not account for when HP drops below 90% health. In Wish’s 30/30/10 build, the crit chance is actually lower than what the builder suggests (roughly 44% vs the builder 59%).

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Posted by: Azraeel.1238

Azraeel.1238

Whenever I come up with a new build, I leave out the hard to get ascended upgrades and buffs. To actually build something that does not need buffs to work.

As you can see, I don’t use expensive upgrades, I don’t use all ascended gear, I don’t use buffs to tweak the end results. Plus, you can get this gear in few days.

Berzerk armor + weapons = CoF
Valkyrie armor = Crafted
Ascended Amulet = Laurel
Rings = Fractal
Accessories + Back = Karma vendor

You are set to go!

PS: You are free to choose whatever food/oil buffs you like, whether you need more offense or a little more defense, and you can either fill the ascended gear with agony or any other stat that you see fit, won’t screw up the overall build.

80 Necromancer (Main) | 80 Thief | 80 Guardian | 80 Warrior
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Posted by: FinalPatriot.8034

Ok, this may be a stupid question but I run a 10/30/30 build variant of those listed in the OP with all Valkyrie armor (+ beryl orbs) and then zerker gear/accessories. My normal crit% is about 42% right now (still missing a few exotics on the accessories) with a 102% crit bonus. My questions is, what is the real benefit for me to change out my Valkyrie gear for Soldier’s? I also chose the beryl orbs simply because they don’t break my bank account.

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Posted by: wish.1027

WonderfulCT.6278:
So I played around with some values and I came up with this: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1p.h2.8.1p.h17|c.1p.h2.8.1p.h17|1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1c.a7.1p.a7|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d17.3s.d17.2s.d13.2s.d13|0.u36c.u56b.a1.0|39.1|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e

Thats good for a starter set, but Im trying to determine the best possible thing to use, what we should all work to build in the end. This set doesn’t offer more of both in the end, but it’s probably the best starter set.

WonderfulCT.6278:
On the topic of Omnomberry ghosts I’m not sure if you know but they have an internal cooldown of 1 sec and steal 341 health

1400 is just an easier number to work with and remember compared to 1346. I only use exact values when numbers are close, otherwise its all about ease of use.

WonderfulCT.6278:
I recommend using power precision food which in this case would be plate of truffle steak. Also on the site this increases effective power over using butternut squash soup.

When I originally made these sets, I used my actual set to determine food, which is the 10/30/30/0/0 build. For it, Curry soup came out ahead. But for the others, you’re probably right if we don’t account for bloodlust stacks and the fact that BS is half your damage and always crits. But thats a lot of math to prove Curry is like 0.5% better and I will not be doing it since omnomberry ghosts are superior to both anyway. (This site doesnt account for bloodlust stacks)

Wish’s Mug:
Effective Power 5059.44 w/ soup w/o bloodlust
Effective Power 5058.04 w/ steak w/o bloodlust
Wish’s Fall:
Effective Power 4982.48 w/ soup w/o bloodlust
Effective Power 4993.64 w/ steak w/o bloodlust

Sifu.6527:
For example, 5 points in CS gives you 5% crit chance when above 90% health. The calculator does not account for when HP drops below 90% health. In Wish’s 30/30/10 build, the crit chance is actually lower than what the builder suggests (roughly 44% vs the builder 59%).

I knew it counted the 7% crit chance from behind/the side in the end results, but I couldnt figure out why my base crit chance was still higher than it should be. Maybe I should bother to remember to look at minor traits. lol. The only thief minor trait I can even think of is that stupid effing last refugee. Mainly because it kills me 75% of the time it activates. But ya, youre right, your real crit chance is lower than suggested. For the purposes so far it doesn’t matter, since every build got it, but for later parts of this thread, like the next things I will talking about (oils vs stones and removing excess precision to not waste stats), we won’t be using the build calculators effective power stat simply because it’s wrong from here out.

FinalPatriot.8034:
Ok, this may be a stupid question but I run a 10/30/30 build variant of those listed in the OP with all Valkyrie armor (+ beryl orbs) and then zerker gear/accessories. My normal crit% is about 42% right now (still missing a few exotics on the accessories) with a 102% crit bonus. My questions is, what is the real benefit for me to change out my Valkyrie gear for Soldier’s? I also chose the beryl orbs simply because they don’t break my bank account.

The benefit is youd gain like 2% defense and 3% offense. For some people (like myself) being the most effective you can possibly be is important. If you’re not into that sort of thing and consider being less effective ok, this thread is not for you. But have you ever fought someone in WvW and just barely lost? like they had nothing left on their HP bar and you died? Have you ever tried to escape from a zerg and just barely took enough damage to get downed and then died? Well, min/maxing your gear would of let you win that fight and gotten away, and thats the whole purpose of this thread. To figure out the best possible gear set we could be using to increase our chances to win to the highest point we can.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

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Posted by: wish.1027

Azraeel.1238:
As you can see, I don’t use expensive upgrades, I don’t use all ascended gear, I don’t use buffs to tweak the end results. Plus, you can get this gear in few days.

If this is seriously your criteria for determining a gear set, please stop reading this thread and posting in it. It’s not for you.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

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Posted by: FinalPatriot.8034

wish.1027:
The benefit is youd gain like 2% defense and 3% offense. For some people (like myself) being the most effective you can possibly be is important. If you’re not into that sort of thing and consider being less effective ok, this thread is not for you. But have you ever fought someone in WvW and just barely lost? like they had nothing left on their HP bar and you died? Have you ever tried to escape from a zerg and just barely took enough damage to get downed and then died? Well, min/maxing your gear would of let you win that fight and gotten away, and thats the whole purpose of this thread. To figure out the best possible gear set we could be using to increase our chances to win to the highest point we can.

Sorry if it came across that I was trying to argue a point or be sarcastic as that wasn’t my intent at all. I just like to know everything possible about my class and since I’ve only been a level 80 now for about 2 weeks, I’ve got a long way to go.

Considering I’m trying to save on the cost, are the beryl orbs effective for now or should I consider the scholar runes in order to save the coins? I have 4 exotic Soldier armor pieces with beryl orbs but I’ve never really used the set all that much.

For the weapons, do you think the Sigil of Air would be better than the Force for the main-hand weapon? I would think you would be missing out on a good bit of extra damage considering your crit%.

One last question… Do you run with a shortbow when you’re part of a zerg? I can see how Sword/Dagger is great for picking apart some classes though it would be really difficult for me to give up a ranged attack + mobility skill.

Laura Seranus – Mesmer –
“Shatter Me!”
“I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.”

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Posted by: wish.1027

Part One
Todays topic of conversation is going to be Sigils of Bloodlust vs Perception, Oils vs Stones and removing excess precision to maximize stats.

To start I would like to cover bloodlust vs perception, stacking power compared to stacking precision, and then move to maximizing stats. Power is the better stat for this, as you will not always have 25 stacks and we want to try to use an exact precision value where we gain +1% crit chance so that we’re not wasting stats. You gain +1% crit chance every 21st point of precision. So points 1-20 are wasted, and 21 gives you value. Those other 20 points would give you value if they could be transferred to power or vit or toughness, but 20 precision over that last 21st point does nothing for your thief. This is why in the end we want to do our best to remove as much excess precision as we can. Now, to do this we have 2 real options: berserker/valkyrie ascended gear instead of berserker/berserker and infusion slots. You can add 6 precision (up to 24, we have 4 offensive infusion slots) by using a precision infusion instead of power or remove 12 by swapping a defensive infusion b/b items with b/v and using a precision infusion, or remove 18 by swapping a defensive b/b with offensive b/v and adding a power infusion. But basically, we’re counting by 6.

The first thing we need to do is determine our base precision, which means we need to figure out if we want to use oils or stones. So, lets look at our precision and what precision value gives what % crit chance, and where we’re really at.

1794 Precision is our starting point (counting our omnomberry ghosts). So we’ll look at values above that, to a reasonable point where we should stop caring. Number on the left is precision, number on the right is crit chance.

1788 46
1809 47
1830 48
1851 49
1872 50
1893 51
1914 52
1935 53
1956 54
1977 55
1998 56
2019 57
2040 58
2061 59

1794 is 6 above exactly 46%, we should be able to hit that number exactly, but, since we’re using omnomberry ghosts, we really want our base crit chance at 50% to gain full benefit from them. So first, lets look at master maintenance oils compared to superior sharpening stones, and see what each offers.

We can determine their damage increases by a bit of easy math. Power is multiplied by ‘stuff’ to determine damage, so we can simply remove ‘stuff’ and leave the power and multiply it by the values for none-critchance multiplied by 1 and then 1+crit damage multiplied by critchance (as we did earlier comparing ghosts and soup to see how they do compared to each other, but adding in the power bit). Did I mention Mug and Fall both have the same precision? Because they do, but their crit damage and power are different, so we will have to solve for both of them because of that.
2061 Power (Fall), 2161 Power (Mug), 46% Crit Chance, 102 Crit Damage (Fall), 92 Crit Damage (Mug), 250 extra power (Bloodlust)
If we use the build site we can quickly see what our power/precision would look like with stones or oils, which beats typing out the math and doing it, so we’ll do that, but keep in mind that we should gain more precision than power because of the 5% precision to vit trait we picked, and 4% vit to precision from the oil.
2305 (Mug) power with stones, 2201 (Fall) power with stones, 1938 (Mug) prec with oil (53% crit chance), 1934 (Fall) prec with oil (52% crit chance)
If you would like to know why Mug gains more stats than Fall, it’s because they convert 6% of toughness and 4% of vit to other stats, and Mug has much higher toughness, while Fall has about an even distribution of both.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-13 19:59:37 by wish.1027)

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Posted by: wish.1027

Part Two
So, now that we have all our numbers to work with our equations should look like this:
(Base Power+Bloodlust) * ((Normal Damage * None-Critrate)+(Crit Damage * Critrate))
Mug Oil:
(2161+250) * ((1 * .47)+(2.42 * .53))=4225.5186
Mug Stone:
(2305+250) * ((1 * .54)+(2.42 * .46))=4223.926

Fall Oil:
(2061+250) * ((1 * .48)+(2.52 * .52))=4137.6144
Fall Stone:
(2201+250) * ((1 * .54)+(2.52 * .46))=4164.7392

Honestly, in both sets, I expected oil to win when we added Bloodlust stacks, Im a bit saddened that in the Fall set it doesnt win (~.~; ) I dont want to add conditionals to this part of the set… so lets try to avoid doing that and see if we can come up with something that will work out better than this. Like removing 1 power infusion for a precision infusion that will bump our crit rate up 1% when we use oils.

Fall Oil, – 1 power infusion + 1 prec infusion
(2055+250) * ((1 * .47)+(2.52 * .53))=4161.908

Thats ridiculously close. At this point you lose 1 damage for every 2075~, but as you can see from this, min/maxing our precision is actually very important, we just went from +20 useless stats to +5 useless stats and it almost switched which food is better to use. If we dropped more of those useless stats Oil would pull ahead, but Im not going to go more into it than that, as it would require another 5 paragraphs.

Conclusion:
We’ve now determined which foods to use for both sets. Master maintenance oils and omnomberry ghosts for the Fall and Mug sets. Tomorrow we’ll try our best to remove as much excess precision as we can, as it will all convert to power/vit/toughness using the method I stated above. If anyone would like to give it a try, go for it. I havent actually done this part yet, and I probably won’t be doing it until tomorrow, or even the day after if it takes a long time. Here’s your base to work from:
Wish’s new Mug: Precision 1938
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1c.h2.8.1c.h17|c.1c.h2.8.1c.h17|1c.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d17.3s.d17.2s.d13.2s.d13|a3.u36c.u56b.0.0|54.7|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e
Wish’s new Fall: Precision 1934
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1p.h2.8.1p.h17|c.1p.h2.8.1p.h17|1c.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d17.3s.d17.2s.d13.2s.d13|0.u36c.u56b.a1.0|54.7|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e

These are the numbers you want to try and hit with precision: 1914, 1935, 1956, 1977, Any one of them is probably fine, but I assume 1935 or 1956 would be best in the end.

And as always, if you find a better set, be sure to post it, but use the same foods as I am using, as other stuff will now skew the EP of the set since the site cant account for bloodlust stacks, the HP differance gained from omnom ghosts, and it doesnt use base crit chance for effective power.

EDIT: Im not sure why I was thinking Infusions give 6 to a stat, they actually give 5 to a stat, but since it doesnt change anything Im not going to edit these posts and redo them.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-17 23:50:56 by wish.1027)

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Posted by: wish.1027

FinalPatriot.8034:
Sorry if it came across that I was trying to argue a point or be sarcastic as that wasn’t my intent at all. I just like to know everything possible about my class and since I’ve only been a level 80 now for about 2 weeks, I’ve got a long way to go.

I thought you were asking an honest question, so I gave you the real answer.

FinalPatriot.8034:
Considering I’m trying to save on the cost, are the beryl orbs effective for now or should I consider the scholar runes in order to save the coins? I have 4 exotic Soldier armor pieces with beryl orbs but I’ve never really used the set all that much.

Scholar runes are cheaper than beryl orbs? (>.o)
I dont think they are, but regardless, it doesnt take long to farm enough gold for the set of gear Im advocating. An hour a day for 2 weeks, or 2 hours a day for 1 week is all thats required. Just use whatever is cheap until you can finish the set.

FinalPatriot.8034:
For the weapons, do you think the Sigil of Air would be better than the Force for the main-hand weapon? I would think you would be missing out on a good bit of extra damage considering your crit%.

Air and Fire sigils wont stack. They share a recast timer and whichever is in the main hand will proc over the other. What you actually use with my set is 1 dagger with force, 1 sword with accuracy and 1 dagger with fire. If you equip both daggers (fire offhand) in one slot and equip the sword in the main slot of your switch, it will automatically count the offhand dagger from the first set as being used with the sword when you swap to the sword.

FinalPatriot.8034:
One last question… Do you run with a shortbow when you’re part of a zerg? I can see how Sword/Dagger is great for picking apart some classes though it would be really difficult for me to give up a ranged attack + mobility skill.

I do not run with zergs. Thats the simple answer. I offhand sword/dagger 100% of the time, regardless of whether Im using S/D main, D/D main or D/P main. You will never convince me offhand shortbow helps you get away more than a sword. With a sword, you use the #2 skill on a mob or something away from the people pursuing you, then run that direction a bit so they see you running that direction. If they dont chase you, youre good to keep running. If they chase you, simply run forward a bit more, so they all notice people are chasing you and all chase you, then stealth and use shadow return and run the exact opposite direction. Just make sure youre more than 1200 away from where you started so if they dropped fields on your return you dont get onto them. It doesnt get any more mobile than that honestly. Plus its good condition removal if you really need it, and lets you actually kill boonbunker builds.

I also dont find ranged attacks to be useful at all, gap closers are better. If I wanted to be ranged I’d use a P/D setup (and I have used that before).

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

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Posted by: FinalPatriot.8034

Wish,

Do you have a video of this in action? I’d really like to see how you play it.

Laura Seranus – Mesmer –
“Shatter Me!”
“I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.”

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Posted by: wish.1027

FinalPatriot.8034:
Wish,

Do you have a video of this in action? I’d really like to see how you play it.

I actually started recording stuff, then my good PC broke, lol. But if you watch any kind of balanced build thief playing in WvW, its not much different than that. I can just take more abuse and deal slightly more damage. If you watch any of Yishis’s videos, thats a good place to start, but I’ll be uploading stuff eventually. I’ll find something to upload now though that will show a bit of the abuse you can take and what kind of damage you do, I have some of the stuff I recorded saved on this PC, but dont expect to be to impressed with my editing skills or my amazing luck at finding 4-5 bads to kill at the same time. Stuff like that only happens when Im not recording and all I get is SS’s. (In this SS I actually killed 5 people, and all 5 showed up at the same time, but saddly 2 WP’d when I downed the last one lol)

Attachments:

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-13 23:56:32 by wish.1027)

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Posted by: wish.1027

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTBkUhBsEVA

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

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Posted by: WonderfulCT.6278

wish.1027:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTBkUhBsEVA

The lack of skill from the enemies it burns. Face a condition engie or anything tanky and I can’t really see this working at all the way it is. If you plan to win in outnumbered situations you need to be at least able to kill one guy. -Ignore this sentence cause it kinda applies to D/any thieves in general.

From what I saw in the video you could likely have just worn scholars and done alright (this not me trying to push scholars on you, its me emphasizing how bad the enemies were).

Btw anyone wearing CoF armor is bad its an easy to pick up on fact since they are likely wearing zerk gear and therefore have no chance solo as well as having very little time spent in pvp. I’m not sorry to you CoF armor wearing people.

Last thing sigil of fire does <1k damage on hit from what I’ve seen in the vid with no chance of crit (not affecting omnom’) so it’s damage is neglible. I really think you’d be better off with air. It would take someone with less than 10k health to even lose the benefit from scholars from fire. -Probably the only section worth reading

Add more sound effects to The Minstrel plz.

(edited 2013-06-14 08:01:10 by WonderfulCT.6278)

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Posted by: Azraeel.1238

Azraeel.1238

wish.1027:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTBkUhBsEVA

lol. They were standing there doing nothing… They barely even dodged! Not to mention they were all focusing your ally…

80 Necromancer (Main) | 80 Thief | 80 Guardian | 80 Warrior
Engineer and Elementalist in progress…

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Posted by: rogerwilko.6895

rogerwilko.6895

Hello!
I know you guys must be lv 80 since long ago, still maybe you can point one in the right direction:
→ For leveling, should one go D/D + SB and focus on cnd dmg? Should one respec at some point as in, do lv 1→20 with power prec, 21→ 40 with cnd, 41→80 water spec?
or something
Thank you.

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Posted by: Wolfield.9812

Wolfield.9812

As funny as it sounds but for leveling i loved the sword/x and shortbow. Aoe dmg, fast movement speed to get around the map, aoe dmg. Pistol whip is less damage but you can evade. If under lvl 40 take caltrops for some good condition damage.

Denial Flow – Thief – Gandara Server
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIj3Z-gk5_7Zs17CQJNKkfg?feature=guide

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Posted by: wish.1027

Azraeel.1238:
lol. They were standing there doing nothing… They barely even dodged! Not to mention they were all focusing your ally…

Ya, I dunno why people have such a hard time understanding that thieves move into groups and pick off all the bads and uplevels. Its the most effective way to play. I mean I could put up videos of super awesome 1v1s Ive had, but those arent nearly as funny or entertaining. If you want to be useful, find your zerg, walk ahead of them, and kill all the bads you can find in the enemy group. This will dwindle their numbers and make a bunch of them focus on you, and not pay any attention, so when your teams zerg pushes in, theyll have an easier time winning the fight.

This doesnt work in T1 as the meta is different, but from what Ive seen in T3 to T8, this is a pretty easy thing to do. Most of those guys like to ranged attack each other until someone losses a few people or they see they have superior numbers, then they charge. In T1 its charge first, figure out your outnumbered after your dead when you can see how many of the enemy there is as they all run over you. And theres just a lot more people in general making it very hard to find any fights that are not 1v30. Especially when your opponents are SOR and BG, theyre pretty bad in general so they make up for it with numbers, lots of numbers (They stack an entire maps Q of people on 1 tag 90% of the time). I dont really know about T2 though, Ive only fought DB from that tier, and theyre pretty bad, but half their guilds are from JQ, the ones who couldnt cut it being in T1, so they use the T1 tactic.

If it seems like Im ripping on anyone, Im not. Im just explaining play styles. But seriously, if any of you thieves want to have fun solo roaming. It’s more fun in tiers 5-7.

One last thing before I forget. In the video, if you pay attention to only the the noQQ Elementalist, you can see that Im specifically playing to avoid her, and none of the other people. You need to know who your targets are, and pick them smartly. ADQQSty people are very good, and you cant fight them with others around. This is another advantage to being in lower tiers, you quickly learn who to avoid. I left at the end because theres no way I could fight a bunker mesmer with the ele there and win, since it’s right by their spawn and more people could show up at any moment.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-14 18:52:13 by wish.1027)

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Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

Effective Power 5208.02
Effective Health (EHP) 21156
Damage Reduction 27%

Xxkakarot [GF] Good Fights
Dark Wizard Incar [GF] Good Fights
http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot

(edited 2013-06-14 19:36:25 by Brando.1374)

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Posted by: FinalPatriot.8034

wish.1027:
30 30 10 Wurm runes
Effective Power 4904.61
Effective Health (EHP) 22027
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1g.h2.8.1p.h17|c.1g.h2.8.1p.h17|1c.710.1g.710.1c.710.1g.710.1c.710.1g.710|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d17.3s.d17.2s.d13.2s.d13|0.u36c.u56b.a1.0|39.1|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e

Wish, can you talk more about this build/gear idea? I like the idea of the damage reduction and the lower cost for the runes (not going to pay 60+ gold for divinity). Does this work with the 10/30/30 build you listed earlier? Also, have you ever tried this with the D/P before?

I really like my current setup/build but the problem I have is a low base health and very little damage reduction. I know some argue that glass is the way to go but if they don’t get the drop on me, they’ve got no chance to survive.

Laura Seranus – Mesmer –
“Shatter Me!”
“I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.”

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Posted by: wish.1027

Brando.1374:
so here is some stats I came up with
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.3|8.1g.h1.8.1g.h2|5.1g.h4|1g.7l.1c.7l.1p.7l.1g.7l.1g.7l.1g.7l|2u.0.2v.0.2t.0.2t.0.3t.0.2u.0|0.u36c.u45b.a6.0|39.1|57.5c.5a.5b.5v|e

Effective Power 5185.31
Effective Health (EHP) 21252
Damage Reduction 27.34%

Honestly, you made some bad gear choices, and the thief rune overcompensates for it since it always counts that 10% bonus. Like, you have hat and legs as berserker, and shoulders and coat as defensive gear. Youd gain a lot more stat wise making legs and hat your defensive pieces, since you lose the most stats for each point of crit damage in those slots. The amulet too, you give up 9 stats per point of crit damage there, thats one of the better slots to add berserker gear. And ascended back is the absolute best place to add berserker gear (Exotic you should use soldiers with berserker jewel).

Here I moved your hat and legs to soldiers, weapons to valkyre, shoulders and amulet and back to berserkers, and you can see the gains. If you’re using any defensive gear that doesnt include crit damage as a stat you need to put it in the slots that you give up the least crit damage for the most stats in. I also really think you should have power main stat in all your gear, but your cavalier ring has intrigued me, I must admit.

Here is a quick list of gear, and how much each point of crit damage costs. These are the first things you should switch the crit damage out of in favor of defensive stats, if youre not using crit damage in every slot.

Hat: 32 for 2, 16 each
Legs: 48 for 3, 16 each
Body: 72 for 5, 14.4 each
Weapon: 64 for 5, 12.8 each
Shoulders/Gloves/Shoes: 24 for 2, 12 each
Amulet: 85 for 9, 9.4 each
Earring: 60 for 7, 8.571 each
Ring: 68 for 8, 8.5 each
Back: 35 for 5, 7 each

Try again, Im sure you can do better than I did to suit your own playstyle.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-14 21:51:24 by wish.1027)

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Posted by: Quells.2498

Quells.2498

Divinity runes are nearly 10G each right now and there’s just no way I’m paying that. Any suggestions on a different set of runes?

Leader of Contre [VS], just a bunch of zen adults
focus on Dungeons, Fractals and Raiding.

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Posted by: wish.1027

FinalPatriot.8034:
wish.1027:
30 30 10 Wurm runes
Effective Power 4904.61
Effective Health (EHP) 22027
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1g.h2.8.1p.h17|c.1g.h2.8.1p.h17|1c.710.1g.710.1c.710.1g.710.1c.710.1g.710|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d17.3s.d17.2s.d13.2s.d13|0.u36c.u56b.a1.0|39.1|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e

Wish, can you talk more about this build/gear idea? I like the idea of the damage reduction and the lower cost for the runes (not going to pay 60+ gold for divinity). Does this work with the 10/30/30 build you listed earlier? Also, have you ever tried this with the D/P before?

I really like my current setup/build but the problem I have is a low base health and very little damage reduction. I know some argue that glass is the way to go but if they don’t get the drop on me, they’ve got no chance to survive.

Thats just using Wurm runes to see how the damage/defense scales compared to Divinity runes. You should really just buy divinity runes, its not that difficult to farm gold in this game to get the best gear. That said:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1c.h2.8.1c.h17|c.1c.h1.8.1c.h17|1c.710.1g.710.1c.710.1g.710.1c.710.1g.710|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d17.3s.d17.2s.d13.2s.d13|a3.u36c.u56b.0.0|54.7|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e
That should be the best you can do with 10-30-30, if you want more offense, move the weapons to valk, more offense than that move them to berserker, more than that move the body to valk, then legs/hat to valk. Then body > legs > hat to berserker.

When I play D/P I use 0-20-30-20-0, and I use the gear set listed for the 10-30-30 mug build, as thats what I actually own gear wise. (I use a Soldiers gun also) Im aware its not the best thing to use, but it’s what I currently use. After I finish this I plan to figure out the best gear set for that as well, but I really expect it to be whatever is listed as best for the 30-30-10 build (which only switch soldiers weapons to valkyrie weapons compared to the 10-30-30) except maybe with 1 berserker weapon and 1 valkyrie weapon to make up some of the lost precision.

If youre just wanting to fix your low HP problem, In my post above this one I listed which pieces of gear should be switched out first in favor of defensive stats.

Quells.2498:
Divinity runes are nearly 10G each right now and there’s just no way I’m paying that. Any suggestions on a different set of runes?

You should really just farm gold and buy divinity runes, theres no sense intentionally gimping yourself when it will only take an hour a day over 2 weeks to make enough to buy them along with the fire sigil and bloodlust sigils. Youre going to spend more time than that acquiring the other gear if you do dungeons to obtain it all. Dont let 60 gold scare you away like its hard to get it, but the wurm set listed above is fine to use while you farm, then just drop in all 6 divinities at the same time when you get them. (Provided you have all the gear already, as the items you use dont change much/at all depending on which trait set you use)

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-14 20:20:06 by wish.1027)

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Posted by: Quells.2498

Quells.2498

I do have all the gear/trinkets/sigils already as I was running something similar previously. I know 60 gold isn’t really ridiculous but my biggest challenge is keeping my wife out of my bank stash…

Leader of Contre [VS], just a bunch of zen adults
focus on Dungeons, Fractals and Raiding.

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Posted by: wish.1027

Quells.2498:
I do have all the gear/trinkets/sigils already as I was running something similar previously. I know 60 gold isn’t really ridiculous but my biggest challenge is keeping my wife out of my bank stash…

lol… Good Luck with that then.

EDIT: After playing with a Offensive Cavalier ring and earring for a long time, I couldnt make them do what I wanted them to do, which was allow me to swap some valk gear in to replace some soldiers to gain crit damage at the cost of some power/precision. This trade is ultimately not worth it in the end as it ends up lowering your damage output and your defense beyond what just mixing soldiers/valkyries/berserkers offers. Unless I just somehow did it totally wrong, but I dont think I did.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-14 21:46:41 by wish.1027)

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Posted by: Lyndis.2584

Lyndis.2584

Can someone just tell me what the heck is the best build already lol

.:: FaTe ~ [SoS] ::.

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Posted by: WonderfulCT.6278

Ok so here it is my lackadaisically made build.

Got rid of sigils of fire (although you can use air over force). Added sigils of accuracy to improve overall crit chance. Added truffle steak to improve EF. Removed hidden killer in favor of executioner to improve overall dps and with sigils of accuracy you still have a high BS crit chance.

Overall all stats are improved on the site without use divinity runes or scholars. You can still use soup with this since steak barely improves EF.

The only real reason for the increase in EF is that it doesn’t count sigil of fire, however if it counted executioner it would still be higher (even though it doesn’t count hidden killer either). Also fire < air acknowledge it (well for dagger builds anyway)!!!!!

You could do this same thing to your build and get superior stats so why am I bringing this up? ‘Cause you didn’t.

Add more sound effects to The Minstrel plz.

Building a better D/D thief.

in Thief

Posted by: wish.1027

WonderfulCT.6278:
Overall all stats are improved on the site without use divinity runes or scholars. You can still use soup with this since steak barely improves EF.

All you really did was move a bit of the effective power to effective defense. Switch your foods to the proper ones, min/max your precision to hit a good number, and remove the random 5% crit chance youre giving yourself from the second sigil to see for yourself.

WonderfulCT.6278:
You could do this same thing to your build and get superior stats so why am I bringing this up? ‘Cause you didn’t.

Superior paper stats for autoattacking arent always the best thing in the world, I proved this in the discussion about about omnom ghosts vs other foods. This site also doesnt take bloodlust stacks into account, which I did when I showed why oils are better than stones, and what you have to do to reach the point where oils become better (remove excess precision) Youre also sitting under 50% crit chance on this build.

Lyndis.2584:
Can someone just tell me what the heck is the best build already lol

Sure, soon as we figure out what it is.

Jade Quarry Warrior Strike Force [SF]
w/ an alt Thief and Guardian.
Math is your friend.

(edited 2013-06-15 00:33:16 by wish.1027)

Building a better D/D thief.

in Thief

Posted by: WonderfulCT.6278

wish.1027:
All you really did was move a bit of the effective power to effective defense. Switch your foods to the proper ones, min/max your precision to hit a good number, and remove the random 5% crit chance youre giving yourself from the second sigil to see for yourself.

No I did not only move effective power to effective defense, also I’m not sure if you’re refering to my previous build or your build. I tried to keep my build as close to yours in EF and EH but since the EH was really close I just threw the excess in EP. “Switch your foods to proper ones.” I have no idea what you mean by this. Do you not consider butternut squash soup or truffle steak to be proper foods?

WonderfulCT.6278:
You could do this same thing to your build and get superior stats so why am I bringing this up? ‘Cause you didn’t.

wish.1027:
Superior paper stats for autoattacking arent always the best thing in the world, I proved this in the discussion about about omnom ghosts vs other foods. This site also doesnt take bloodlust stacks into account, which I did when I showed why oils are better than stones, and what you have to do to reach the point where oils become better (remove excess precision) Youre also sitting under 50% crit chance on this build.

Which stat is paper and what do you mean by paper? If you are emplying the build is glassy than I would again remind you it has about the same EH as your build. For a more balanced build ghosts can probably do ok[…]in WvW (Had to omit that part). Also you didn’t directly address my removal of hidden killer (which I find useless).

If you want a higher crit chance use oils and soup.

Also acknowledge air sigils they’re lonely.

The purpose of my counter builds is get a cost effective version of your builds (which probably annoys you :P) while maintaining similar to better stats.

Add more sound effects to The Minstrel plz.

Building a better D/D thief.

in Thief

Posted by: wish.1027