Guild Wars 2

I play a thief and I play a thief that requires more skill than those thieves out there that utilize condition builds, eventhough at times I will use this build that I am about to expose. Here is the major issue with this particular thief build outside of the culling issues that have plagued pvp gameplay involving all thief builds utilizing stealth.
Condition builds utilizing high condition damage while using the pistol/dagger combo takes advantage of a very nasty exploit in this games mechanics allowing thieves roaming around solo to take on small groups of opposing players or destroying anyone, 1 vs 1.
Here is the exploit.
When the pistol/dagger combo is equipped many thieves will take advantage of the fact that skill number 1, ‘vital shot’, causes bleeds (condition damage) over time (with stacking ability) and costs ZER0 initiative to utilize it and if an opponent gets too close that thief can simply use ‘cloak and dagger’ to stealth or various other methods/utilities to stealth like blinding dust, refuge or even steal with stealth trait attached. Stealth in turn can create distance for the condition pistol/dagger wielding thief as it bleeds the opponent to the bone while not even present on screen due to stealth or culling issues, while the thief can also regenerate life if traited. This condition thief does not have to have much power, and for all I know this thief does not need much precision. This build allows thieves to spam vital shot while milking opponents dry (when on screen or invisible) while staying a safe distance away from the opponent and spending ZERO initiative in the process until they pull CLOAK AND DAGGER on you. Rinse and repeat.
The solution.
Quite possibly the easiest fix to one of the biggest exploits in this game.
Have ‘VITAL SHOT’ cost INITIATIVE. Find out the math behind if 1 to 1.5 to 2 initiative per vital shot round is reasonable. This will eliminate the exploitation of THE condition thief pistol/dagger combo to a certain degree, and there will be very few complaints….until the culling issue problem with thieves get solved of course.
Again, I am a thief and I actually like using this build, but I believe in fairness.

Wow, event Vital Shot is OP now :’( Tomorrow, someone will complain about Body Shot and the cycle will be complete.

So, because P/D can easily apply A condition to it’s target with it’s auto-attack- you want it to cost initiative?
kitten?
If you are “a thief […] but I believe in fairness” you’d realize how asinine this sounds and how hypocritical your suggestion really is.
That is, if you “believe in fairness”.

I’m a D/D 10/30/30/0/0 build, so I’m not personally invested in Pistol / Dagger and I still think that sounds like a horrible idea.

Lol, let us be REAL here folks. It is broken. High condition damage on a skill that utilizes ZERO initiative (at a distance) PLUS stealth. LMFAO. LET US BE REAL. As I stated Aervius, I use this build too. Might want to reread that part in the beginning and the end. The initiative cost should be small as not to destroy the mechanics but only hamper the spamming of something so broken when coupled with high condition. Look, we already can gain 2 initiative when triggering a stealth skill or we can gain initiative quicker when in stealth, if we have these traited. And I bet my bottom dollar you do!

sorry, i had to quote this in guild.
good laugh, thanks.
Vital shot is one of the worst auto attacks in game and is actually nothing but infinitely inferior version of warrior’s auto with rifle

You’re right, it’s broken. But not for the reasons you listed. It’s broken because the attack speed is so slow that it’s impossible to utilize the bleeds correctly. What you want to do is nerf an attack that actually needs to be buffed. Kind of mind boggling.

Einzelganger.4152:

Lol, let us be REAL here folks. It is broken. High condition damage on a skill that utilizes ZERO initiative (at a distance) PLUS stealth. LMFAO. LET US BE REAL. As I stated Aervius, I use this build too. Might want to reread that part in the beginning and the end. The initiative cost should be small as not to destroy the mechanics but only hamper the spamming of something so broken when coupled with high condition. Look, we already can gain 2 initiative when triggering a stealth skill or we can gain initiative quicker when in stealth, if we have these traited. And I bet my bottom dollar you do!

Hold the phone- Vital Shot STEALTHS?

And wait, I thought you (by your own words, no less) used “a condition build that requires more skill” and yet here you are talking about the easymode/IWINbutton-ness of your build?

What are you, high, mentally handicapped, Elementalist or all three?

But, to be fair, I do spec 30 into Shadow Arts- but I’m a direct damage build.
In fact, you can find my exact build in the stickied thread if you want to see what I run.

Also Aervius, do me a favor and look up the word ‘hypocritical’. You oviously did not read my stance on what I wrote. I do use this mechanic, but do I think it is a game changer or broken? Does ANET think it is fair? For the time being you and I can utilize what ever we want to gain an advantage or disadvantage in this game, knowing or not knowing the ins and outs of the mechanics at hand. I have experimented with every piece of armor and mixed up the trait points, runes, sigils, accessories and utilities so much it might make your head spin, as it did mine. I am calling it as I see it, that is it and that is all.

This has to be a troll thread. You pick the weakest attack a thief has and you want to nerf it? and you don’t even get the mechanics of the skill right (there is no stealth for vital shot?)

Einzelganger.4152:

Also Aervius, do me a favor and look up the word ‘hypocritical’. You oviously did not read my stance on what I wrote. I do use this mechanic, but do I think it is a game changer or broken? Does ANET think it is fair? For the time being you and I can utilize what ever we want to gain an advantage or disadvantage in this game, knowing or not knowing the ins and outs of the mechanics at hand. I have experimented with every piece of armor and mixed up the trait points, runes, sigils, accessories and utilities so much it might make your head spin, as it did mine. I am calling it as I see it, that is it and that is all.

I’m perfectly aware of the definition of hypocritical, but clearly you aren’t:
“I play a thief and I play a thief that requires more skill than those thieves out there that utilize condition builds, eventhough at times I will use this build that I am about to expose.”
“(paraphrased) nerf Vital Shot”
What the hell are you smoking, bro?

Arsenic Touch.7960:

This has to be a troll thread. You pick the weakest attack a thief has and you want to nerf it? and you don’t even get the mechanics of the skill right (there is no stealth for vital shot?)

This.

Guys, he did say that stealth comes from DnC, not vital shot.
Still, laughable
Its probably that mythological D/D+P/D+SB+S/P 150 trait point 8 utility slot thief everyone talks about

Haha OP you make me laugh, “easiest fix for arenanet” is to make auto attack cost initiative. Wow, just wow, the only reason why Pistol/dagger is so strong and killing everyone is because the render issue that occers on stealth. Man you need to do some research before making accusations.

If you even fought one pistol/dagger thief you know that they go into stealth then you see his sneak attack and he will still be invisible and continuing attackign you while you cant see him, when hes finally visible for 1-2 seconds he goes back into stealth.

Only a noob would die from a thief trying to run around 900range with auto attack mwahah.

Ichishi.9613:

Guys, he did say that stealth comes from DnC, not vital shot.
Still, laughable
Its probably that mythological D/D+P/D+SB+S/P 150 trait point 8 utility slot thief everyone talks about

Ah, yeah still laughable. It’s funny because Jon says P/P needs to be buffed. Clearly this guy knows more than Jon.

I use this build most of the time Mr. Aervius, the non-thinker. P/V/T gear head to toe socketed with Runes of the Wolf Pack or whatever those are. Berserker weapons with bloodlust sigils and Berserker accessories. My traits are 0-30-30-10-0 and I always crit and regen life in stealth. Offhand I know I have 33% increased speed in stealth along with stealthing as a result of stealing, both traited. Best kitten build I have found that is durable and allows me to mix up weapon swapping with both daggers and both pistols together. Utilities include blinding dust, refuge and shadow step. Again, culling issues is not very friendly to my opponents.

First it was pistol whip build that was OP, then Sword/Dagger, Then Dagger/Dagger and now Pistol/Dagger ? Holy kitten…. what is wrong with people ?

I guess no one is aware of high condition meets vital shot PLUS stealth and culling = OP, never did say that vital shot caused stealth…let’s be real.

Eviscera.9703:

First it was pistol whip build that was OP, then Sword/Dagger, Then Dagger/Dagger and now Pistol/Dagger ? Holy kitten…. what is wrong with people ?

They’re used to companies like Blizzard/EA catering to their every plea to make their gameplay experience ‘more fun’ (i.e. “nerf what I don’t like so that I alone will be king”).

Spoiled and entitled adults are spoiled and entitled.

Einzelganger.4152:

I use this build most of the time Mr. Aervius, the non-thinker. P/V/T gear head to toe socketed with Runes of the Wolf Pack or whatever those are. Berserker weapons with bloodlust sigils and Berserker accessories. My traits are 0-30-30-10-0 and I always crit and regen life in stealth. Offhand I know I have 33% increased speed in stealth along with stealthing as a result of stealing, both traited. Best kitten build I have found that is durable and allows me to mix up weapon swapping with both daggers and both pistols together. Utilities include blinding dust, refuge and shadow step. Again, culling issues is not very friendly to my opponents.

Then your gripe is against culling not vital shot, Mr. “I’m going to try and chastise someone clearly more perceptive than I by saying he doesn’t think”.

I swear to god some of you dipkitten vote.

Rissou.7213:

Haha OP you make me laugh, “easiest fix for arenanet” is to make auto attack cost initiative. Wow, just wow, the only reason why Pistol/dagger is so strong and killing everyone is because the render issue that occers on stealth. Man you need to do some research before making accusations.

If you even fought one pistol/dagger thief you know that they go into stealth then you see his sneak attack and he will still be invisible and continuing attackign you while you cant see him, when hes finally visible for 1-2 seconds he goes back into stealth.

Only a noob would die from a thief trying to run around 900range with auto attack mwahah.

And it’s not like you can’t see the bullets in this game.
Regardless of Culling, Sneak Attack gives away the Thief’s general position when the opponent isn’t a horrible baddy.

Aervius.2016:

Rissou.7213:

Haha OP you make me laugh, “easiest fix for arenanet” is to make auto attack cost initiative. Wow, just wow, the only reason why Pistol/dagger is so strong and killing everyone is because the render issue that occers on stealth. Man you need to do some research before making accusations.

If you even fought one pistol/dagger thief you know that they go into stealth then you see his sneak attack and he will still be invisible and continuing attackign you while you cant see him, when hes finally visible for 1-2 seconds he goes back into stealth.

Only a noob would die from a thief trying to run around 900range with auto attack mwahah.

And it’s not like you can’t see the bullets in this game.
Regardless of Culling, Sneak Attack gives away the Thief’s general position when the opponent isn’t a horrible baddy.

That is true, but not as easy as you makes it sound.

There is nobody who will win 1vs1 against a pistol/dagger thief, so futile attempts attacking into empty space wont really help. This game isnt 1vs1 so it doesnt really matter. I barely meet any Pistol/dagger thieves anyways.

Because I am a critical thinker, MAYBE intitiative cost (at small amounts per vital shot of course) should take effect if condition points reach a certain figure (character stat wise). I.E. If I have 800 condition stat points or more utilizing the pistol in my main hand, then ‘vital shot’ will cost .5 to 1 to 1.5 initiatve or whatever the number is to balance out this gameplay mechanic of spamming vital shot with excessive stacks on bleeds and condition damage. Not sure if this can be programmed or how difficult it would be to program but it is worth a look and discussion.

It isnt free though, you need to spent 6 initiative to stealth yourself to get the good bleed ability. And anyway EVERY class has some from of degen on one weapon set’s auto attack.

Elementalists scepter causes a burn on autohit while attuned to fire, and a bleed when attuned to earth.

Guardians burn every 5 hits

Warriors rifle bleeds

Necros scepter

engineer pistols

Mesmers staff

Also most pistol thiefs lack a good stun breaker so just stun and destroy them. Or necro aoe degen works well too. and most tournament teams have lots of degen removal + itsonly single target. In my opinion thiefs could use a piercing talent like other range classes so they can bleed more than one target at a time.

Einzelganger.4152:

Because I am a critical thinker, MAYBE intitiative cost (at small amounts per vital shot of course) should take effect if condition points reach a certain figure (character stat wise). I.E. If I have 800 condition stat points or more utilizing the pistol in my main hand, then ‘vital shot’ will cost .5 to 1 to 1.5 initiatve or whatever the number is to balance out this gameplay mechanic of spamming vital shot with excessive stacks on bleeds and condition damage. Not sure if this can be programmed or how difficult it would be to program but it is worth a look and discussion.

No, it’s not.
You’re talking about making a single target, 4s base bleed cost 1 initiative.
Just imagine the implications for the scale that you’d be setting for Death Blossoms’ cost.
Don’t be so narrow minded, “critical thinker”.

mickers.2715:

It isnt free though, you need to spent 6 initiative to stealth yourself to get the good bleed ability. And anyway EVERY class has some from of degen on one weapon set’s auto attack.

Elementalists scepter causes a burn on autohit while attuned to fire, and a bleed when attuned to earth.

Guardians burn every 5 hits

Warriors rifle bleeds

Necros scepter

engineer pistols

Mesmers staff

Also most pistol thiefs lack a good stun breaker so just stun and destroy them. Or necro aoe degen works well too. and most tournament teams have lots of degen removal + itsonly single target. In my opinion thiefs could use a piercing talent like other range classes so they can bleed more than one target at a time.

Not to mention that the Engi pistol AA proc’s Area bleeding.

Aervius, You cant use death blossom when you have pistol equipped in main hand, WTF?!?!? And I obviously think death blossom is okay..Why? Because it burns initiative!!! There is some balance to the death blossom mechanic. Are you even reading anything or should I educate you some more.
I agree culling is a HUGE issue here, but until that gets sorted out, (or if it ever will with thieves) these two things coupled together make for an exploitation and that is why many thieves are utilizing it. On occassion, myself included.

Mediocrities everywhere,i absolve you! I absolve you! I absolve you!
@Einzelganger i absolve you too. I absolve you all!!!

sorry what?? although i enjoyed your high and mighty post on “oh heres an exploit”..
your entire topic is about a play style not an exploit. secondly your talking wvw so meh.. you really think that spamming auto atk is an exploit? theres no exploit here, going stealth turns vital shot into sneak atk, making stealth highly utilisible pistol/dagger condition builds have fairly good survivability if played properly as you have stealths for condition removal and spacing, and you dont really need to go in close unless its fairly safe. that being said, still have low toughness, can get creampuffed in a second by any glass cannon.

talking about wvw and culling issues is completely separate from class balance, and in future if your complaining about a class in pve or wvw make that known in the topic, as it was a waste of time me reading it thanks.

OP: Thats kind of the point? Thats the purpose of the build and it is not OP. To be honest I think that build does pitiful DPS. Compared to a condi d/d thief that blossoms everything while dropping caltrops..watching the world bleed..p/d condi thieves do not compare.

This is not an OP build, neither is a condi d/d build. Thief is very well balanced. Even if you are a glass cannon backstab build. If anyone gets a hold of you there, youre dead.

I’ve got a p/d thief. I regularly take on small groups (2-3 players, sometimes other players join in the middle of the fight) and am very often successful in killing all, or at least some before a zerg comes and I have to try running away. It is very risky though (little room for error) and I do often get killed, especially when other players unexpectedly show up while in the middle of a fight. I’ve found though that if there is at least one competent, good player in the group, I generally won’t be able to win and I retreat- and this is the key point. Most players I encounter are simply not that good at playing defensively against a p/d thief. Rather then dodge/block my CnD’s (which by the way makes me waste 6 initiative and I become very vulnerable), cc me, aoe me when I’m in stealth, remove bleeds, get out of my caltrops, they just think they can burst me down and stand around waiting for me to come out of stealth. But put one person in the group that can play defensively and I hardly have a chance anymore, especially if it’s more than 2 people and with down state as it is.
Now, I don’t believe that this build is OP and I’ll give you two reasons why. Firstly, I’ve fought thousands of 1×1s and I’ve lost to at least one person of every profession. The reason I lost is because they were very good at their profession and had the perfect mix of skills to counter me (usually involves stuns, traps, blinds, immobilize, etc.), and I most likely messed up. Some of these players I’ve fought multiple times, and then I might have won because I learned how to counter them, and then they may have won another time because they learned a new trick too. The point is, there are other professions that do have a chance against a p/d thief if they know what they are doing, are traited for it and play well.
The second reason I don’t think it’s OP is because I’ve played against dozens of other p/d thieves and most of them are terrible. When I fight them I see all the stuff they are doing wrong and I just shake my head. I’ve only fought 2 that were good, one of whom (wild bill), is excellent. I’m also wondering how many bad p/d thieves people kill and just forget about because they didn’t put up much of a fight. I’d speculate it’s a lot more than those thieves that can successfully fight small groups.
Simply put, if you required the auto-attack to cost initiative, it would simply ruin the build, and thieves would be left with even less viable builds. I would rarely have enough initiative for cnd, which means I would always be getting hit when dodge is down, can’t heal as much, can’t do sneak attacks (the main source of damage), and let’s not forget that cnd doesn’t always connect anyway if a player counters it in the first place or if the timing is off. Then you would waste all your initiative and can’t even auto-attack.
P/d can be a very strong, solo build if someone knows how to properly play it. 1×1 against a good p/d thief, your average player won’t stand a chance. But learn how to counter him (or her), practice it, and you do have a chance. Honestly, groups have no excuse to not be able to down a p/d thief. I know this because it does happen to me when I play against good players. Anyway, this is at least my opinion based on the experiences I’ve had.

Einzelganger.4152:

Quite possibly the easiest fix to one of the biggest exploits in this game.
Have ‘VITAL SHOT’ cost INITIATIVE. Find out the math behind if 1 to 1.5 to 2 initiative per vital shot round is reasonable. This will eliminate the exploitation of THE condition thief pistol/dagger combo to a certain degree, and there will be very few complaints….until the culling issue problem with thieves get solved of course.
Again, I am a thief and I actually like using this build, but I believe in fairness.

You are realy king of fools. Again one QQ topic. Vital shot is one of the weakest and slowest autoattacks and you want nerf it? Go cry another place pls and dont bother here. No one class has costs on autoattacks so why thief should have it? Its clear that you only want make another cry topic where kids can cry against thieves. I want please you and all your crying kids fanclub to stop playing GW2. All will be more happy then. Ppls like you only poison this game and forum.

Einzelganger

A bunch of stuff

In conclusion:

1. Power-based damage is really skillful, you know you’re pro when you’re stackin’ that power/prec/critdamage unlike those skill-less condition dudes.
2. Using terrible auto attack bleeds and then not standing there dying like a man is an exploit and is super effective at killing people.
3. Using stealth is an exploit, creating range is an exploit, especially with a ranged weapon.
4. I’ve got no idea what Sneak Attack is.
5. Super rational, super skillful thiefguy here, just helpfully informing you all about the dangers of Vital Shot.

Einzelganger.4152:

Here is the exploit.
When the pistol/dagger combo is equipped many thieves will take advantage of the fact that skill number 1, ‘vital shot’, causes bleeds (condition damage) over time (with stacking ability) and costs ZER0 initiative to utilize it and if an opponent gets too close that thief can simply use ‘cloak and dagger’ to stealth or various other methods/utilities to stealth like blinding dust, refuge or even steal with stealth trait attached.
The solution.
Quite possibly the easiest fix to one of the biggest exploits in this game.
Have ‘VITAL SHOT’ cost INITIATIVE. Find out the math behind if 1 to 1.5 to 2 initiative per vital shot round is reasonable. This will eliminate the exploitation of THE condition thief pistol/dagger combo to a certain degree, and there will be very few complaints….until the culling issue problem with thieves get solved of course.
Again, I am a thief and I actually like using this build, but I believe in fairness.

I know few exploits too !!!
there are some players that use condition removal , and no matter how much bleed i add, they remove it every few seconds.
Here is the fix :
ah wait there is no exploit

Please stop feeding the troll

Hylian.4867:

Please stop feeding the troll

^ This.

No body is really this ignorant of class mechanics.

Wait…..what?!?

…..is this guy serious???!!

Zerbo.5381:

I’ve got a p/d thief. I regularly take on small groups (2-3 players, sometimes other players join in the middle of the fight) and am very often successful in killing all, or at least some before a zerg comes and I have to try running away. It is very risky though (little room for error) and I do often get killed, especially when other players unexpectedly show up while in the middle of a fight. I’ve found though that if there is at least one competent, good player in the group, I generally won’t be able to win and I retreat- and this is the key point. Most players I encounter are simply not that good at playing defensively against a p/d thief. Rather then dodge/block my CnD’s (which by the way makes me waste 6 initiative and I become very vulnerable), cc me, aoe me when I’m in stealth, remove bleeds, get out of my caltrops, they just think they can burst me down and stand around waiting for me to come out of stealth. But put one person in the group that can play defensively and I hardly have a chance anymore, especially if it’s more than 2 people and with down state as it is.
Now, I don’t believe that this build is OP and I’ll give you two reasons why. Firstly, I’ve fought thousands of 1×1s and I’ve lost to at least one person of every profession. The reason I lost is because they were very good at their profession and had the perfect mix of skills to counter me (usually involves stuns, traps, blinds, immobilize, etc.), and I most likely messed up. Some of these players I’ve fought multiple times, and then I might have won because I learned how to counter them, and then they may have won another time because they learned a new trick too. The point is, there are other professions that do have a chance against a p/d thief if they know what they are doing, are traited for it and play well.
The second reason I don’t think it’s OP is because I’ve played against dozens of other p/d thieves and most of them are terrible. When I fight them I see all the stuff they are doing wrong and I just shake my head. I’ve only fought 2 that were good, one of whom (wild bill), is excellent. I’m also wondering how many bad p/d thieves people kill and just forget about because they didn’t put up much of a fight. I’d speculate it’s a lot more than those thieves that can successfully fight small groups.
Simply put, if you required the auto-attack to cost initiative, it would simply ruin the build, and thieves would be left with even less viable builds. I would rarely have enough initiative for cnd, which means I would always be getting hit when dodge is down, can’t heal as much, can’t do sneak attacks (the main source of damage), and let’s not forget that cnd doesn’t always connect anyway if a player counters it in the first place or if the timing is off. Then you would waste all your initiative and can’t even auto-attack.
P/d can be a very strong, solo build if someone knows how to properly play it. 1×1 against a good p/d thief, your average player won’t stand a chance. But learn how to counter him (or her), practice it, and you do have a chance. Honestly, groups have no excuse to not be able to down a p/d thief. I know this because it does happen to me when I play against good players. Anyway, this is at least my opinion based on the experiences I’ve had.

Unbelievable. The thief profession is doomed. The mongoloids will never stop crying about the thief, no matter what it is. I will not be surprised if the next patch includes a nerf to vital shot. Because as we have learned, arenanet’s intellect is on par with that of the original poster.

To those calling the original poster a troll, please stop. It does not make you cute or cool. The original poster is obviously genuine in his delusions, and he is not alone – those wishing for the demise of the thief are innumerable. Arenanet is one of them:

“Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%.”
“Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15%.”
“Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33%.”

I rest my case.

Zerbo, seriously kudos to you and adding your experiences and reacting to my post in a manner that everyone should be taking notes on how you handled it! I have had the same experiences that you have had and the majority of thieves that utilize this build. Strong posts like yours only get this game where it needs to be when feelings of unfairness arise. I felt like I needed to say something because when I face stomp groups of people with this boring yet highly efective build, I feel that it is unfair to many and I was merely brainstorming of ways to level the playing field. Maybe it is just the culling issue involved with stealth and NOT what I suspect with high condition damage PLUS stacking bleeds (and slotting runes for increased bleed duration well above the 50% percentile range) coupled with the vital shot that burns zero inititiative.

jajajajaja someone got his kitten handed over in pvp jajaajajaja. initiative cost for vital shot? ajajajajaj aight what about necros scepter , mesmer staff , warriors sword/rifle , engineer pistol ? should they have a 5 or 6 seconds cooldowns? ajajajajaj

Hey shrewd, justify intellect because obviously you have no idea what that word means.

in·tel·lect

[ ínt’l èkt ]

1.mental ability: somebody’s ability to think, reason, and understand
2.intelligent person: a very intelligent and knowledgeable person

Let’s talk experiences while playing with this thief build and we can determine your level of credebility.

Also to say that nerfing dancing dagger, cluster shot or cloak and dagger has harmed thief gameplay, means you do not play a thief or you are lacking. I utilize those skills all the time and it has ZERO effect on my gameplay as a thief.

Thief
Ricochet – Pistol shots have a 33% chance to bounce and hit all targets in area for 25% of that attacks damage and set those targets on fire for 1s. (this is for condition damage pistols.)
“Idea straight from “Torso Shot” in Starwars Galaxies."

Fix the page!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Emanuel, I have owned many with this build, thanks for you opinion or lack thereof.
Jajajaja..Might need to reread some of what I have discussed in regards to this build. Because I play a thief and utilize this carrion build among berzerker, rampager and p/v/t bunker builds. I have tried all the builds that can be deemed effective by the the thief class…might need to check out valkyrie or knight builds but I prefer carrion or P/V/T armor as my base instead.

P/D Sneak Attack has an initiative cost. It’s called C&D, and it costs 6 initiative. Shut up with all your idiocy!

My mind is blown from reading this guy’s posts.

Einzelganger.4152:

Lol, let us be REAL here folks. It is broken. High condition damage on a skill that utilizes ZERO initiative (at a distance) PLUS stealth. LMFAO. LET US BE REAL. As I stated Aervius, I use this build too. Might want to reread that part in the beginning and the end. The initiative cost should be small as not to destroy the mechanics but only hamper the spamming of something so broken when coupled with high condition. Look, we already can gain 2 initiative when triggering a stealth skill or we can gain initiative quicker when in stealth, if we have these traited. And I bet my bottom dollar you do!

There’s no way to soften this – if you think vital shot is overpowered, there is absolutely no way you can have even a basic understand of the games mechanics. I don’t understand how to logically express my opinion that doesn’t require that the person I’m speaking to acknowledge and understand the basic manner in which the game works. But I’ll give it a shot.

I played P/D conditions for a long, long time. Anyone who’s played the spec for 5 minutes quickly learns it’s success is directly tied to how often you can access stealth for sneak attack – vital shot is a very minimal part of the build in general. If anything, vital shot needs a buff, and sneak attack can take a minor nerf (so sneak attack is still better than vital shot, but the build doesn’t entirely rely on it.)

And just for kitten and giggles, I didn’t bother with 2 init on stealth – in my experience, regen or blind on stealth was a vastly superior choice.

This topic is joke of the day Autoattack and cost initiative
Thanks Einzelganger.4152 !!! You made me happier today !!

Well, viewing comments has been disabled and I guess I cannot defend my opinion in a sensible manner because of all of the people that refuse to talk like sensible young adults. Sensible, intellectual = young adult…yeah I guess I am at fault for even attempting to try and converse with some of the people in here, aside from a small majority who are quite reasonable and express their opinions in a very mature manner. The better people express their opinions in a rational way, the better a thread like this could have been. Peace to you all, and Happy Holidays!
EDIT: I was incorrect, a new page was started…I was not disabled (face palm)…LOL!

Oh, by the way. I just wanted to point out a thief that has probably the most skill with this condition build and he utilizes ZERO stealthing utilities. I applaud the likes of WILD BILL. Truly amazing skill and everyone do yourself a favor and check out how he decimates opponents with zero stealth utilities on you tube. He only needs cloak and dagger. Period. He deserves credit for how well he does it compared to the next guy, myself included. Peace.

Einzelganger.4152:

Well, viewing comments has been disabled and I guess I cannot defend my opinion in a sensible manner because of all of the people that refuse to talk like sensible young adults. Sensible, intellectual = young adult…yeah I guess I am at fault for even attempting to try and converse with some of the people in here, aside from a small majority who are quite reasonable and express their opinions in a very mature manner. The better people express their opinions in a rational way, the better a thread like this could have been. Peace to you all, and Happy Holidays!

Can’t talk “sensibly” with an ignorant idiot…because they tend to be…well…ignorant and idiotic.