DAREDEVIL Utilities and STAFF SKILLS
It seems Distracting Daggers is a toolkit. http://i.imgur.com/NWy34jF.png
It says EQUIP and there are multiple casts of them. What do you guys think?
Or it just simply occupies the slot and you can click on it 3 times?
Probably more like a mantra as someone said.
AA – It’s built more for making pve viable with the spec as it does a 3 sec weakness.
Stealth attack – The fact that the weapon doesn’t have built in stealth is probably why they made it so powerful (2 sec KD stealth opener would be broken if you could chain stealth like */d)
Weakening charge – It’s actually death blossom with weakness and direct damage in stead of bleed/evade. Makes the weapon viable to use with SoM as a white damage weapon.
Debilitating Arc – Breaks immob, allowing you greater flexibility in util choices.
Dust Strike – emergency blind if you’re out of end, same cost as Debilitating Arc so probably intended to be a situational/tactical choice between the two
Vault – Probably intended more as a gap closer/support trait proc opener for team fights. Seems a little expensive for what it does. Leap finisher does allow it to set up as a stealth combo so could have interesting team play interactions with the stealth attack?
Channeled Vigor – Any way you slice it it’s a lame heal. If you’re so low on end you need to use it, you’re not in a position where using it is actually safe. Reduce the healing ratio and give it something else. Pulsing blind or projectile reflect or something, IDK.
Reflexive strike – Traited, it’s an 8s recharge stun break as well as a block/reflexive knockdown. Looks like a really solid overall defense panic button.
Fist flurry – Super situational, but it’s unblockable, be a good CC follow up against anybody that runs passive block. Might be mechanically interesting if you can hold palm strike for a while. Good way to force the target to blow a dodge so you can exploit your advantage of extra dodges maybe?
Distracting Dagger – Looks intended for breaking heals to secure kills.
Impairing daggers – Slow makes it easier to exploit interrupt traits/gear and time dodges. Seems better as an opener than a gap closer.
Elite – Solid finisher. Means you don’t have to worry about stomping if you start the chain at the end of the opponent’s HP bar. If the chain times like autoattacks you could down the target with hit 1, miss hit 2 due to downed knockback, blind, etc, and still have time to run in and do hit 3 and finish them. Great roamer/skirmisher elite to full-kill targets and GTFO fast.
Overall staff seems like it’s got good bones, but testing needs to be done on those damage values they might be a little low, or they might be perfect when combined with the traits as a lesser damage/more durable melee set. It’s nice to see that the utilities/elite synergize well with existing sets and add real options as alternatives to deception utils.
It’s definately a better PvE set for non-condi builds just on virtue of spamming 2 and built in mobility, but it might need some cost/damage tweaks to be attractive for pvp.
Staff is garbage.
heal is garbage.
Some U-skills are really solid and powerful, elite is very good.
Tbh i don’t see staff replacing nor primary sets ( D/X, S/X) neither sbow, mostly cuz it’s nor more powerful than current sets neither has more tactical uses ( no poison, bad auto, slow skills and backward evade LOL).
Even if some skills damage are very high, their utility is terrible ( D/P has blinds and dazes and stealth combos, S/D has stealth, dazes and inf strike, forward evade which can be also used backward) while staff has nothing aside some combo finishers u can’t combo with cuz u have no fields LOL.
it may seem very cool at first sight but damage isn’t everything, not even in PvE, mind it in PvP where staff will be garbage if released this way.
The idea behind it is very cool, but weap skills needs to be better than this.
I can see S/D, S/P and D/P being very strong with daredevil elite spec instead of shadow arts/acro and 3rd u-skill and elite as physicals.
Regarding the elite its on a 40 sec CD meaing you get one attempt at it. I’m assuming if you miss the chain will end.
Why?
It’s already an extremely situational elite useful basically only for PvP. I can’t think of any good reason to assume missing 2 would fizzle it as its sole purpose seems to be turning a low HP player in to a dead player, and if it fizzles on a missed 2 then it would be absolutely useless as a skill against several classes.
I mean unless you’re just assuming it’ll suck because it’s a thief elite. Which, TBH, could be a fair assumption up to this point so who knows.
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
AA – It’s built more for making pve viable with the spec as it does a 3 sec weakness.
Stealth attack – The fact that the weapon doesn’t have built in stealth is probably why they made it so powerful (2 sec KD stealth opener would be broken if you could chain stealth like */d)
Weakening charge – It’s actually death blossom with weakness and direct damage in stead of bleed/evade. Makes the weapon viable to use with SoM as a white damage weapon.
Debilitating Arc – Breaks immob, allowing you greater flexibility in util choices.
Dust Strike – emergency blind if you’re out of end, same cost as Debilitating Arc so probably intended to be a situational/tactical choice between the two
Vault – Probably intended more as a gap closer/support trait proc opener for team fights. Seems a little expensive for what it does. Leap finisher does allow it to set up as a stealth combo so could have interesting team play interactions with the stealth attack?
Channeled Vigor – Any way you slice it it’s a lame heal. If you’re so low on end you need to use it, you’re not in a position where using it is actually safe. Reduce the healing ratio and give it something else. Pulsing blind or projectile reflect or something, IDK.
Reflexive strike – Traited, it’s an 8s recharge stun break as well as a block/reflexive knockdown. Looks like a really solid overall defense panic button.
Fist flurry – Super situational, but it’s unblockable, be a good CC follow up against anybody that runs passive block. Might be mechanically interesting if you can hold palm strike for a while. Good way to force the target to blow a dodge so you can exploit your advantage of extra dodges maybe?
Distracting Dagger – Looks intended for breaking heals to secure kills.
Impairing daggers – Slow makes it easier to exploit interrupt traits/gear and time dodges. Seems better as an opener than a gap closer.
Elite – Solid finisher. Means you don’t have to worry about stomping if you start the chain at the end of the opponent’s HP bar. If the chain times like autoattacks you could down the target with hit 1, miss hit 2 due to downed knockback, blind, etc, and still have time to run in and do hit 3 and finish them. Great roamer/skirmisher elite to full-kill targets and GTFO fast.
Overall staff seems like it’s got good bones, but testing needs to be done on those damage values they might be a little low, or they might be perfect when combined with the traits as a lesser damage/more durable melee set. It’s nice to see that the utilities/elite synergize well with existing sets and add real options as alternatives to deception utils.
It’s definately a better PvE set for non-condi builds just on virtue of spamming 2 and built in mobility, but it might need some cost/damage tweaks to be attractive for pvp.
Staff is garbage.
heal is garbage.
Some U-skills are really solid and powerful, elite is very good.
Tbh i don’t see staff replacing nor primary sets ( D/X, S/X) neither sbow, mostly cuz it’s nor more powerful than current sets neither has more tactical uses ( no poison, bad auto, slow skills and backward evade LOL).
Even if some skills damage are very high, their utility is terrible ( D/P has blinds and dazes and stealth combos, S/D has stealth, dazes and inf strike, forward evade which can be also used backward) while staff has nothing aside some combo finishers u can’t combo with cuz u have no fields LOL.
it may seem very cool at first sight but damage isn’t everything, not even in PvE, mind it in PvP where staff will be garbage if released this way.
The idea behind it is very cool, but weap skills needs to be better than this.
I can see S/D, S/P and D/P being very strong with daredevil elite spec instead of shadow arts/acro and 3rd u-skill and elite as physicals.
Staff doesn’t seem like garbage st all, just a weak aa, which isn’t a big deal
(edited by Azure.8670)
AA – It’s built more for making pve viable with the spec as it does a 3 sec weakness.
Stealth attack – The fact that the weapon doesn’t have built in stealth is probably why they made it so powerful (2 sec KD stealth opener would be broken if you could chain stealth like */d)
Weakening charge – It’s actually death blossom with weakness and direct damage in stead of bleed/evade. Makes the weapon viable to use with SoM as a white damage weapon.
Debilitating Arc – Breaks immob, allowing you greater flexibility in util choices.
Dust Strike – emergency blind if you’re out of end, same cost as Debilitating Arc so probably intended to be a situational/tactical choice between the two
Vault – Probably intended more as a gap closer/support trait proc opener for team fights. Seems a little expensive for what it does. Leap finisher does allow it to set up as a stealth combo so could have interesting team play interactions with the stealth attack?
Channeled Vigor – Any way you slice it it’s a lame heal. If you’re so low on end you need to use it, you’re not in a position where using it is actually safe. Reduce the healing ratio and give it something else. Pulsing blind or projectile reflect or something, IDK.
Reflexive strike – Traited, it’s an 8s recharge stun break as well as a block/reflexive knockdown. Looks like a really solid overall defense panic button.
Fist flurry – Super situational, but it’s unblockable, be a good CC follow up against anybody that runs passive block. Might be mechanically interesting if you can hold palm strike for a while. Good way to force the target to blow a dodge so you can exploit your advantage of extra dodges maybe?
Distracting Dagger – Looks intended for breaking heals to secure kills.
Impairing daggers – Slow makes it easier to exploit interrupt traits/gear and time dodges. Seems better as an opener than a gap closer.
Elite – Solid finisher. Means you don’t have to worry about stomping if you start the chain at the end of the opponent’s HP bar. If the chain times like autoattacks you could down the target with hit 1, miss hit 2 due to downed knockback, blind, etc, and still have time to run in and do hit 3 and finish them. Great roamer/skirmisher elite to full-kill targets and GTFO fast.
Overall staff seems like it’s got good bones, but testing needs to be done on those damage values they might be a little low, or they might be perfect when combined with the traits as a lesser damage/more durable melee set. It’s nice to see that the utilities/elite synergize well with existing sets and add real options as alternatives to deception utils.
It’s definately a better PvE set for non-condi builds just on virtue of spamming 2 and built in mobility, but it might need some cost/damage tweaks to be attractive for pvp.
Staff is garbage.
heal is garbage.
Some U-skills are really solid and powerful, elite is very good.
Tbh i don’t see staff replacing nor primary sets ( D/X, S/X) neither sbow, mostly cuz it’s nor more powerful than current sets neither has more tactical uses ( no poison, bad auto, slow skills and backward evade LOL).
Even if some skills damage are very high, their utility is terrible ( D/P has blinds and dazes and stealth combos, S/D has stealth, dazes and inf strike, forward evade which can be also used backward) while staff has nothing aside some combo finishers u can’t combo with cuz u have no fields LOL.
it may seem very cool at first sight but damage isn’t everything, not even in PvE, mind it in PvP where staff will be garbage if released this way.
The idea behind it is very cool, but weap skills needs to be better than this.
I can see S/D, S/P and D/P being very strong with daredevil elite spec instead of shadow arts/acro and 3rd u-skill and elite as physicals.
Staff doesn’t seem like garbage st all, just a weak as, which isn’t a big deal
AA is where damage comes from.
Moreover it has nothing, no defense, no offense, no cc, backward evasion ( bad for engaging, useful in disengages only), gap closer has 1 sec cast time ( screaming kitten ME MEANWHILE) without evade ( even ranger swoop has evade on it) and we’re not warriors ( whirlwind is a way better evade also, rush covers way more distance and can deal up to 6-7k in pvp ), terrible utility.
There’s 0 reason to pick staff over any other existing set thief already has.
Amen.
You see, people say Staff is garbage and how they don’t see how staff is gonna replace our current things. This is actually good news. What we needed was diversity among other things. Not only that, but this trait truly favors other weapon builds too!
Stop thinking as individuals, and see it an array of possibilities for the Thieves’ Den as a whole!
talking about WvW here, cause that’s all i care about. I only do PvE to get stuff for WvW
We’ ll see the usual D/Ps but we’ ll start seeing even more D/D and a real surge in S/P including a refreshing reappearance of S/D. SB still remains our irreplaceable utility weapon.
Staff will be fixed after BWE and I bet it will be placed damage wise between Dagger & Sword.
You need to see the bright side of things guys. Staff being a bad, useless stick is in fact a great thing for the Thief Community as a whole.
If ONLY, IF ONLY we get could get our traits fixed…
Thief – Raiden Hayabusa
Thief – Gouki Kurokawa
AA – It’s built more for making pve viable with the spec as it does a 3 sec weakness.
Stealth attack – The fact that the weapon doesn’t have built in stealth is probably why they made it so powerful (2 sec KD stealth opener would be broken if you could chain stealth like */d)
Weakening charge – It’s actually death blossom with weakness and direct damage in stead of bleed/evade. Makes the weapon viable to use with SoM as a white damage weapon.
Debilitating Arc – Breaks immob, allowing you greater flexibility in util choices.
Dust Strike – emergency blind if you’re out of end, same cost as Debilitating Arc so probably intended to be a situational/tactical choice between the two
Vault – Probably intended more as a gap closer/support trait proc opener for team fights. Seems a little expensive for what it does. Leap finisher does allow it to set up as a stealth combo so could have interesting team play interactions with the stealth attack?
Channeled Vigor – Any way you slice it it’s a lame heal. If you’re so low on end you need to use it, you’re not in a position where using it is actually safe. Reduce the healing ratio and give it something else. Pulsing blind or projectile reflect or something, IDK.
Reflexive strike – Traited, it’s an 8s recharge stun break as well as a block/reflexive knockdown. Looks like a really solid overall defense panic button.
Fist flurry – Super situational, but it’s unblockable, be a good CC follow up against anybody that runs passive block. Might be mechanically interesting if you can hold palm strike for a while. Good way to force the target to blow a dodge so you can exploit your advantage of extra dodges maybe?
Distracting Dagger – Looks intended for breaking heals to secure kills.
Impairing daggers – Slow makes it easier to exploit interrupt traits/gear and time dodges. Seems better as an opener than a gap closer.
Elite – Solid finisher. Means you don’t have to worry about stomping if you start the chain at the end of the opponent’s HP bar. If the chain times like autoattacks you could down the target with hit 1, miss hit 2 due to downed knockback, blind, etc, and still have time to run in and do hit 3 and finish them. Great roamer/skirmisher elite to full-kill targets and GTFO fast.
Overall staff seems like it’s got good bones, but testing needs to be done on those damage values they might be a little low, or they might be perfect when combined with the traits as a lesser damage/more durable melee set. It’s nice to see that the utilities/elite synergize well with existing sets and add real options as alternatives to deception utils.
It’s definately a better PvE set for non-condi builds just on virtue of spamming 2 and built in mobility, but it might need some cost/damage tweaks to be attractive for pvp.
Staff is garbage.
heal is garbage.
Some U-skills are really solid and powerful, elite is very good.
Tbh i don’t see staff replacing nor primary sets ( D/X, S/X) neither sbow, mostly cuz it’s nor more powerful than current sets neither has more tactical uses ( no poison, bad auto, slow skills and backward evade LOL).
Even if some skills damage are very high, their utility is terrible ( D/P has blinds and dazes and stealth combos, S/D has stealth, dazes and inf strike, forward evade which can be also used backward) while staff has nothing aside some combo finishers u can’t combo with cuz u have no fields LOL.
it may seem very cool at first sight but damage isn’t everything, not even in PvE, mind it in PvP where staff will be garbage if released this way.
The idea behind it is very cool, but weap skills needs to be better than this.
I can see S/D, S/P and D/P being very strong with daredevil elite spec instead of shadow arts/acro and 3rd u-skill and elite as physicals.
TBH it occurs to me that they may have designed it as a PvE weapon considering that the utils and elite are all very PvP oriented, and the trait line seems geared to go either way. Like, staff is to thieves what GS is to warriors?
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
You see, people say Staff is garbage and how they don’t see how staff is gonna replace our current things. This is actually good news. What we needed was diversity among other things. Not only that, but this trait truly favors other weapon builds too!
Stop thinking as individuals, and see it an array of possibilities for the Thieves’ Den as a whole!
talking about WvW here, cause that’s all i care about. I only do PvE to get stuff for WvW
We’ ll see the usual D/Ps but we’ ll start seeing even more D/D and a real surge in S/P including a refreshing reappearance of S/D. SB still remains our irreplaceable utility weapon.
Staff will be fixed after BWE and I bet it will be placed damage wise between Dagger & Sword.
You need to see the bright side of things guys. Staff being a bad, useless stick is in fact a great thing for the Thief Community as a whole.
If ONLY, IF ONLY we get could get our traits fixed…
Problem with staff is not damage. Problem with staff is it has no purpose as a weapon. Its skills are terribly designed and if u may happen to see any use in WwW or PvP is cuz Vault seems to hit like a truck ( base damage is higher than back backstab O__o ) and people will simply spam it till ini ends or opponents melt.
It’s stupid
TBH it occurs to me that they may have designed it as a PvE weapon considering that the utils and elite are all very PvP oriented, and the trait line seems geared to go either way. Like, staff is to thieves what GS is to warriors?
Current meta for war is gs-hammer.
Yes, the hammer train build.
GS has always been a very good weap, it simply had its damage reduced way too much after the quickness fix.
Now that war have rampage and 30% more damage ( and those 9 k arcing slices), war are picking GS again.
It was just a matter of pure damage need.
AA – It’s built more for making pve viable with the spec as it does a 3 sec weakness.
Stealth attack – The fact that the weapon doesn’t have built in stealth is probably why they made it so powerful (2 sec KD stealth opener would be broken if you could chain stealth like */d)
Weakening charge – It’s actually death blossom with weakness and direct damage in stead of bleed/evade. Makes the weapon viable to use with SoM as a white damage weapon.
Debilitating Arc – Breaks immob, allowing you greater flexibility in util choices.
Dust Strike – emergency blind if you’re out of end, same cost as Debilitating Arc so probably intended to be a situational/tactical choice between the two
Vault – Probably intended more as a gap closer/support trait proc opener for team fights. Seems a little expensive for what it does. Leap finisher does allow it to set up as a stealth combo so could have interesting team play interactions with the stealth attack?
Channeled Vigor – Any way you slice it it’s a lame heal. If you’re so low on end you need to use it, you’re not in a position where using it is actually safe. Reduce the healing ratio and give it something else. Pulsing blind or projectile reflect or something, IDK.
Reflexive strike – Traited, it’s an 8s recharge stun break as well as a block/reflexive knockdown. Looks like a really solid overall defense panic button.
Fist flurry – Super situational, but it’s unblockable, be a good CC follow up against anybody that runs passive block. Might be mechanically interesting if you can hold palm strike for a while. Good way to force the target to blow a dodge so you can exploit your advantage of extra dodges maybe?
Distracting Dagger – Looks intended for breaking heals to secure kills.
Impairing daggers – Slow makes it easier to exploit interrupt traits/gear and time dodges. Seems better as an opener than a gap closer.
Elite – Solid finisher. Means you don’t have to worry about stomping if you start the chain at the end of the opponent’s HP bar. If the chain times like autoattacks you could down the target with hit 1, miss hit 2 due to downed knockback, blind, etc, and still have time to run in and do hit 3 and finish them. Great roamer/skirmisher elite to full-kill targets and GTFO fast.
Overall staff seems like it’s got good bones, but testing needs to be done on those damage values they might be a little low, or they might be perfect when combined with the traits as a lesser damage/more durable melee set. It’s nice to see that the utilities/elite synergize well with existing sets and add real options as alternatives to deception utils.
It’s definately a better PvE set for non-condi builds just on virtue of spamming 2 and built in mobility, but it might need some cost/damage tweaks to be attractive for pvp.
Staff is garbage.
heal is garbage.
Some U-skills are really solid and powerful, elite is very good.
Tbh i don’t see staff replacing nor primary sets ( D/X, S/X) neither sbow, mostly cuz it’s nor more powerful than current sets neither has more tactical uses ( no poison, bad auto, slow skills and backward evade LOL).
Even if some skills damage are very high, their utility is terrible ( D/P has blinds and dazes and stealth combos, S/D has stealth, dazes and inf strike, forward evade which can be also used backward) while staff has nothing aside some combo finishers u can’t combo with cuz u have no fields LOL.
it may seem very cool at first sight but damage isn’t everything, not even in PvE, mind it in PvP where staff will be garbage if released this way.
The idea behind it is very cool, but weap skills needs to be better than this.
I can see S/D, S/P and D/P being very strong with daredevil elite spec instead of shadow arts/acro and 3rd u-skill and elite as physicals.
TBH it occurs to me that they may have designed it as a PvE weapon considering that the utils and elite are all very PvP oriented, and the trait line seems geared to go either way. Like, staff is to thieves what GS is to warriors?
If for a second the Warrior GS don’t have CD but uses Init, GS is a lot better than staff.
Suggestion:
AA – They need to increase the AA damage (Dagger AA does 40% more damage) and reduce the cast time on 3rd chain to 3/4 sec. Looking at the 3rd chain, it looks like a mini Guardian Whirling Wrath w/o the damage 1.3/4 ish coef vs guardian 2.8 coef. The guardian WW is awesome since they have field on their weapon to combo with. Staff doesn’t.
Stealth Attack – As it is currently, we cannot gain stealth via weaponskills. Add smoke field to Dust Strike. Reduce Stealth Attack KD duration to 1 sec.
Weakening Charge – Make it an evade and it will be a solid skill
Debilitating Arc – No complaint
Dust Strike – This doesn’t seem to be AOE but COE. Got to see it in action. If it is COE, suggest they make it smoke field so we can combo.
Vault – Can combo with Dust Strike to gain stealth. Reduce cast time to 3/4.
Can we please not make loads of long angry posts based on non tweaked damage coefficients on datamined not yeat announced skill tooltips?
Let me remind everyone of stuff that happens between BWE for example :
Rapid Swipe: Increased the damage by 30%.
Forceful Bash: Increased the damage by 36%.
Rejuvenating Assault: Increased the healing-power scaling by 50%.
Punishing Sweep: Increased the damage by 33%.
Debilitating Slam: Increased the damage by 100%.
Renewing Wave: Increased the healing-power scaling by 30%.
Surge of the Mists: Increased the damage by 11%.
Can we please not make loads of long angry posts based on non tweaked damage coefficients on datamined not yeat announced skill tooltips?
Let me remind everyone of stuff that happens between BWE for example :
Rapid Swipe: Increased the damage by 30%.
Forceful Bash: Increased the damage by 36%.
Rejuvenating Assault: Increased the healing-power scaling by 50%.
Punishing Sweep: Increased the damage by 33%.
Debilitating Slam: Increased the damage by 100%.
Renewing Wave: Increased the healing-power scaling by 30%.
Surge of the Mists: Increased the damage by 11%.
All mediem armor classes and warrior already missed one opportunity to test and ask for adjustments. We need to get a head start on this.
Can we please not make loads of long angry posts based on non tweaked damage coefficients on datamined not yeat announced skill tooltips?
Let me remind everyone of stuff that happens between BWE for example :
Rapid Swipe: Increased the damage by 30%.
Forceful Bash: Increased the damage by 36%.
Rejuvenating Assault: Increased the healing-power scaling by 50%.
Punishing Sweep: Increased the damage by 33%.
Debilitating Slam: Increased the damage by 100%.
Renewing Wave: Increased the healing-power scaling by 30%.
Surge of the Mists: Increased the damage by 11%.
Infact i’m not angry at all about the damage.
I’m angry cuz the weapon is useless by design.
Damage is crazy high on certain skills like Vault ( which is also AoE).
On full ini u can do 3 Vaults in a row, dealing stuff like 20-30 k damage in a team fight if they all crit and it’s like the most stupid thing ever.
Weakening charge is even more stupid cuz it costs 3 ini, 450 radius ( whole cap point) and also causes weakness if u stay in range, pretty much same damage.
What i’m complaining about is the fact the weapon has no purpose aside damage.
It has bad defense, bad CC, bad support, bad offensive support ( poison, soft ccs) and very awkwards mechanic like backward evasion and very costly gap closer doing kitten ton of damage for no reason.
Weapon DESIGN is simply bad, not its damage.
If damage stays this way, 2-3 crit hits are all u need to kill ANYTHING.
rofl.
You see, people say Staff is garbage and how they don’t see how staff is gonna replace our current things. This is actually good news. What we needed was diversity among other things. Not only that, but this trait truly favors other weapon builds too!
Stop thinking as individuals, and see it an array of possibilities for the Thieves’ Den as a whole!
talking about WvW here, cause that’s all i care about. I only do PvE to get stuff for WvW
We’ ll see the usual D/Ps but we’ ll start seeing even more D/D and a real surge in S/P including a refreshing reappearance of S/D. SB still remains our irreplaceable utility weapon.
Staff will be fixed after BWE and I bet it will be placed damage wise between Dagger & Sword.
You need to see the bright side of things guys. Staff being a bad, useless stick is in fact a great thing for the Thief Community as a whole.
If ONLY, IF ONLY we get could get our traits fixed…
Problem with staff is not damage. Problem with staff is it has no purpose as a weapon. Its skills are terribly designed and if u may happen to see any use in WwW or PvP is cuz Vault seems to hit like a truck ( base damage is higher than back backstab O__o ) and people will simply spam it till ini ends or opponents melt.
It’s stupid
How could you say that? That’s an unreasonable assessment you put up. Staff has no purpose as a weapon?
How about: steady application of weakness, a dodge roll immobilize cleanse, a blind, a sexy Vault, combined with a 4 stacks of Vulnerability? Come on man.
Staff cannot behave like Dagger or Sword or Pistol. It has to be different and offers its own way of killing people.
You said Vault is gonna be spammable? If you are bad Thief maybe. However, any Thief with a minimum of dignity knows you don’t spam something that has 6 initiative costs, the same exact way you do not ever spam HeartSeeker.
If spamming a 3ini skill is dangerous, then what about spamming a 6ini skill?
hint: Common sense
So please, it’s far from stupid.
Thief – Raiden Hayabusa
Thief – Gouki Kurokawa
(edited by Kocoff.7582)
“The weapon is useless cause it does too much damage.” What ?
“The weapon has bad defense.” Yeah, it only includes one AoE blind skill. One AoE weakness. And one mini withdraw. Not to mention the possibilities of defensive Vault usage to get out of the way.
Hook Strike, the steath attack from Staff cause Knockdown. This is extremely satisfying…
Problem is staff doesn’t provide stealth from itself so….
This looks like a job for trappers runes. One trap and respite is all you would need.
Or trait SA and take hidden thief ,steal to target and hook.
Hidden Thief and one or two Deception skills will probably be the better solution. Traps kick you out of stealth way too easily. You might not even have a chance to use your Hook Strike.
Really looking forward to this specialization. My Power PvE Thief bores the hell out of me. But now they really have to work on Acrobatics and give it back some relevance.
traps do not knock you out of hiding even when they are triggered. You get your four seconds stealth if traited s/a 3 otherwise plus that superspeed in stealth.
If for a second the Warrior GS don’t have CD but uses Init, GS is a lot better than staff.
This isn’t a fair comparison at all as warrios GS is specifically designed around cooldowns, not init. It you took any weapon from any other class and made it init based it would be better than any current thief weapon too.
Suggestion:
AA – They need to increase the AA damage (Dagger AA does 40% more damage) and reduce the cast time on 3rd chain to 3/4 sec. Looking at the 3rd chain, it looks like a mini Guardian Whirling Wrath w/o the damage 1.3/4 ish coef vs guardian 2.8 coef. The guardian WW is awesome since they have field on their weapon to combo with. Staff doesn’t.
Dagger AA also only cleaves 2 targets, not 3. There’s a reason when they gave it cleave they didn’t give it full cleave.
Stealth Attack – As it is currently, we cannot gain stealth via weaponskills. Add smoke field to Dust Strike. Reduce Stealth Attack KD duration to 1 sec.
We’re not supposed to gain stealth via weapon skills with this weapon, as this weapon’s playstyle isn’t intended to revolve around chaining stealth. That’s exactly why the KD is 2 seconds. it’s intended to be used less frequently because you have to dervice your stealth from CDs or outside sources.
Weakening Charge – Make it an evade and it will be a solid skill
The lack of an evade is a tradeoff for the fact we can spam a 450 range mobility skill for only 3 init. Giving it an evade would be drastically overpowered, especially when combined with our new trait line. This is intended to enable it to work with the new dodge traits to form chains of dodge back>whirl forward, not to make up for a lack of evades like the ranger and warrior skills do.
Debilitating Arc – No complaint
I need to see the animation on this one. I don’t want to see another skill where the evade is only useful in pve like death blossom due to aftercast. That said if the animation matches the evade time it’s pretty solid.
Dust Strike – This doesn’t seem to be AOE but COE. Got to see it in action. If it is COE, suggest they make it smoke field so we can combo.
Again, I think you’re missing the part where they don’t actually want us to self-combo stealth with this weapon, as it’s designed to be an acrobatic weapon in stead of a stealth weapon
Vault – Can combo with Dust Strike to gain stealth. Reduce cast time to 3/4.
Again, you’re missing the point here. It’s not supposed to be a stealth-centric weapon
Vault is a heavy hitting leap AoE, and is really costly because it typifies what’s different about staff. It doesn’t actually need extra utility because it is what is supposed to be special about staff in stead of heavy hitting stealth attacks
They didn’t design the spec all around staff for a reason. They actually want you to keep using the dagger sets if you’re using a chain stealth attack style build. Staff is supposed to add a heavy hitting multitarget weapon that combos well with its specialization traits and utilities
It’s never going to be comparable, or better than the existing sets for 1v1, or 1vx because that’s not the point of the weapon
It’s supposed to be better in group fights and blob warfare, and it actually is, even as written. It’s meant to do something the other weapons can’t: deal substantial aoe pressure to groups of mobs or players. It’s a weapon meant to allow you to play a thief and not be forced in to a roaming or scouting role. Literally every single skill is obviously designed around that ideal. You’re meant to me highly mobile and dish out nasty damage to multiple targets without getting locked down and killed.
Stop looking at staff as a thing to be used with SA to chain stealth attacks. Staff is not meant to replace existing weapons for existing playstyles. It’s meant to enable a different playstyle that is inacessible to the class without it
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Staff skills are fine outside it might need a tweak to damage on the AA.
It has a gap opener, two short ranger gap closers, a leap a whirl. It can apply weakness, blind a knockdown a cripple and break Immob. It will play very differently and each and every one of its skills will get usage. To maximize its utility one has to design around the traits being offered and not look at the weaponset on its own.
I like the overall design.
As to the heal as garbage I will have to wait and see it in action but I see it having great utility in a stealth build where you can use it to heal up while stealthed allowing one to drop shadows Rejuv. It has an excellent cooldown of only 20 seconds meaning one can trait to be able to run this every 16 seconds only a couple seconds more then traited withdraw.
In other words using a stealth build you can stealth to regain a huge chunk of health AND endurance. That not garbage.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
Why would anyone take Staff with Daredevil instead of S/D?
S/D autoattack is better, faster, same cleave.
S/D gap closer is 2-way + immobilize and condi clear. Staff’s is a worse heartseeker.
S/D evade keeps you on target, boon rip instead of soft-cc clear.
Both their #4 skills are the same you could say.
And for both their nuke skills. Would you rather take a high damage leap or a high damage stealth gaining skill. On a thief, the choice is pretty clear.
Staff skills are fine outside it might need a tweak to damage on the AA.
It has a gap opener, two short ranger gap closers, a leap a whirl. It can apply weakness, blind a knockdown a cripple and break Immob. It will play very differently and each and every one of its skills will get usage.
I like the overall design.
As to the heal as garbage I will have to wait and see it in action but I see it having great utility in a stealth build where you can use it to heal up while stealthed allowing one to drop shadows Rejuv. It has an excellent cooldown of only 20 seconds meaning one can trait to be able to run this every 16 seconds only a couple seconds more then traited withdraw.
In other words using a stealth build you can stealth to regain a huge chunk of health AND endurance. That not garbage.
You know, I hadn’t looked at it from that perspective. I retract what I said. It’s a bad heal for non-stealth builds, but actually a pretty good alternative to HiS for SA builds now that you mention it.
Get a burst in, run initiative down, cnd or leap for stealth, and be ready to go in for another burst Immediately rather than hiding and waiting for your SA traits to do the work.
Heck, it might actually make stealth builds playable without SA at all since it could do a lot of what SA does within the shorter timeframe of non-traited stealth.
Excellent post!
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Why would anyone take Staff with Daredevil instead of S/D?
S/D autoattack is better, faster, same cleave.
S/D gap closer is 2-way + immobilize and condi clear. Staff’s is a worse heartseeker.
S/D evade keeps you on target, boon rip instead of soft-cc clear.
Both their #4 skills are the same you could say.
And for both their nuke skills. Would you rather take a high damage leap or a high damage stealth gaining skill. On a thief, the choice is pretty clear.
Imagine, for a moment, a world in which there was a viable thief build for wvw blobs.
Staff looks to be designed around a hit and run aoe style. The init abilities are the burst, and the auto is intentionally awful because you’re supposed to be using 5 and 2 along with traited dodge and the 8s block/stunbreak to zerg-dive with it and live to tell the tale and maybe even kill someone.
Sword will still be a much better dueling weapon, but staff doesn’t seem built for small fights or staying on any one particular target as much as hitting all the targets a couple times and then using those fancy new utilities and dodge traits to get to your back line where you can regen initiative.
That’s actually one thing I like about what we’ve seen of this spec. The stuff in it doesn’t see to be a “use all these things to make the build we designed for you” as much as “here are some things to make new builds with and shore up some holes in old builds.”
Now if they could have done that without nerfing acro to the ground it would have been better but hey… I’m not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth here.
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
(edited by PopeUrban.2578)
Staff is pretty good, i can see it working mostly because of the dash, however they need to do something about that range, perhaps make it 450
Staff is pretty good, i can see it working mostly because of the dash, however they need to do something about that range, perhaps make it 450
The tooltip says 450.
http://i.imgur.com/RnETtcs.png
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Staff is pretty good, i can see it working mostly because of the dash, however they need to do something about that range, perhaps make it 450
The tooltip says 450.
http://i.imgur.com/RnETtcs.png
Talking about unhindered combatant trait, the dash range is 360
Now if they could have done that without nerfing acro to the ground it would have been better but hey… I’m not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth here.
You should, because the horse was stolen from us 2 months ago and returned with a paint job, dentures and fake chrome hooves.
There is no way that you will be able to dive into a zerg and live to tell the tale (and maybe kill someone) as a thief simply because you now have a leap and a block.
Even full Dire thieves get melted if they get caught in a train’s cleave.
Wonder what second weapon set will work well with the staff
First off: okay, actually … this is awesome. Goodbye, signets and crap Elite!
Hook Strike, the steath attack from Staff cause Knockdown. This is extremely satisfying…
Problem is staff doesn’t provide stealth from itself so….
Staff might be a replacement for SB… given it’s 5 and the trait line giving you 150 endurance… Like it seems it could be used to get around places like SB….
I’m so ditching my shortbow outside of dungeons. kitten that thing. Now gimme a built in stealth and O.B.E.B.I.
Don’t forget it’s a data mined, probably something has changed and in every case We will have a beta test for this.
This is not the final version.
Honestly it appears really weird they added 2 different combo finishers to staff and 0 field.
Everything PopeUrban said: completely agree with.
I am still to go against the flow and try it for a 1v1. The key here i think is Weakening Strike>as long as we apply this, then we should be able to fight par on par with other weapons. If Staff damage is weak, then the next logical thing we do, is to make their attacks weaker.
They did not announce a PoI for Thief.. :/
Thief – Raiden Hayabusa
Thief – Gouki Kurokawa
Can we please not make loads of long angry posts based on non tweaked damage coefficients on datamined not yeat announced skill tooltips?
Let me remind everyone of stuff that happens between BWE for example :
Rapid Swipe: Increased the damage by 30%.
Forceful Bash: Increased the damage by 36%.
Rejuvenating Assault: Increased the healing-power scaling by 50%.
Punishing Sweep: Increased the damage by 33%.
Debilitating Slam: Increased the damage by 100%.
Renewing Wave: Increased the healing-power scaling by 30%.
Surge of the Mists: Increased the damage by 11%.Infact i’m not angry at all about the damage.
I’m angry cuz the weapon is useless by design.
Damage is crazy high on certain skills like Vault ( which is also AoE).
On full ini u can do 3 Vaults in a row, dealing stuff like 20-30 k damage in a team fight if they all crit and it’s like the most stupid thing ever.
Weakening charge is even more stupid cuz it costs 3 ini, 450 radius ( whole cap point) and also causes weakness if u stay in range, pretty much same damage.
What i’m complaining about is the fact the weapon has no purpose aside damage.
It has bad defense, bad CC, bad support, bad offensive support ( poison, soft ccs) and very awkwards mechanic like backward evasion and very costly gap closer doing kitten ton of damage for no reason.
Weapon DESIGN is simply bad, not its damage.
If damage stays this way, 2-3 crit hits are all u need to kill ANYTHING.
rofl.
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said about the staff. I can see many thieves taking the DD line and the elite with maybe a utility or 2 but the staff is outclassed by other weapon sets.
Out of curiosity, where are you getting the damage numbers for Vault from? I’ve checked ingame (using my full zerker ascended stats) and the tool tips off the reddit post and in both cases vault is strong but not as strong as you suggest. It’s 20% ish stronger than c&d or a frontal backstab but 40% weaker than a backstab from the rear. Pulmonary Impact (which can;t crit) is 90% of a rear backstab.
I don’t pvp or wvw much these days and from a PvE perspective, staff brings little to the table that dagger and sword don’t already do. As others have mentioned, IA > Vault for getting around and so can’t see much reason for taking it.
However, with the upcoming announcement of challenging content, if ‘tanking’ (note the quotes) becomes needed in some form, then I wonder if staff daredevil could become an evasion tank like class – I’d honestly love that.
First impression on the datamined skills.
Staff skills
Auto attack — the numbers are better than the sword and the vulnerability in the end is fine too. However, the 1s cast time might be too long to actually connect with the strike. Obviously, this is a skill designed for PvE.
Stealth attack — it’s nice, but the weapon set has no access to stealth. Similar problem we have with x/P weapon set. They really need to get rid of the “stealth attack” and change it to “flanking attack”, which requires positionting instead of stealth.
Weakening Charge — this is actually a pretty good skill
Debilitating Arc — this skill will definitely get nerfed or have its cost around 5-6 initiatives. There’s just too much defense in this skill; anti-immob, roll, and evade.
Dust Strike — this is the most boring skill in the set. It should be a projectile finisher to make it even remotely worth the initiative cost. This is not Black Powder where you can blind up to 5 enemies around you that pulses for 4s. This is in front of you that only blinds up to 3 targets. However the damage is not bad.
Vault — finally teleport that is not restricted by pathing. The damage is not bad either.
Healing Skill
Channeled Vigor — I’m mixed on this skill. On one hand, it’s a really nice heal, however on the other hand, Thief has a low max HP that most of the healing potential will be wasted as overheal. If we gain Protection while channeling, then it would be worth taking in certain situation.
Utility Skills
Bandit’s Defense — this is a nice stun breaker skill given that it only has 10s cooldown. It would probably be nerfed anyway because Thief cannot have this kind of skill. Thief needs to melt in seconds.
Fist Flurry — this is definitely a short lived skill. If they didn’t nerf this to the ground, they would have to completely redesign this or remove it from game. I can already see the combos I can do with this skill. I love it a lot and because I love, ArenaNet will take it away. Their track record is my proof.
Distracting Daggers — now this seems incomplete. “Equip daggers” implies that this skill becomes “dagger skill” that functions like a Mesmer Mantra seeing that it has “number of casts” and “active duration”. If so, then we have another skill that is a candidate for nerf. The potential lockdown of a target is so high with this one especially when it makes the interrupted skill have increased cooldown. A well-timed interrupt on a heal skill makes this too good for ArenaNet to keep.
Impairing Daggers — ah, the original GW Dancing Daggers with a GW2 touch. Very strong, which means it will be nerfed. That’s just too much damage for 25s cooldown and if traited with Brawler’s Tenacity, this will cause a tsunami of QQ that we’ve never seen before.
Elite Skill
Impact Strike — if traited with Brawler’s Tenacity, this skill is available every 32s. This is just too good that it feels like ArenaNet is baiting me to purchase HoT because of these awsome skills to only nerf them after taking my money.
Conclusion
These skills are just too good to be true and more than likely will be short-lived. It’s just one of those things that they make it look good and get me excited so I’ll fork-up the $50 for the expansion to only watch these skills nerfed to the ground post release.
No thank you.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
I am officially satisfied from the traits and Physical skills.
By the look how low the staff damage is, those who do WvW will have to opt for Deadly Arts, Trickery and DareDevil. So glad I can get rid Basilik Venom. I can use Bandit’s Defense to counter against Thieves who are using the former Elite skill.
The whole challenge once again is good synergy with new utility skills, and finding a way to fit in a stealth mechanic in there. Cause that 2 seconds knockdown is a must have.
Heal skill is pretty amazing too. 5,520 HP heals with 3 pulses? that’s our whole life back mates. It could be easily interrupted I guess.
Now we wait for the way all those moves look and it’s GG for Anet on my end.
Uh it’s obviously spread across all 3 pulses.
Why would anyone take Staff with Daredevil instead of S/D?
S/D autoattack is better, faster, same cleave.
S/D gap closer is 2-way + immobilize and condi clear. Staff’s is a worse heartseeker.
S/D evade keeps you on target, boon rip instead of soft-cc clear.
Both their #4 skills are the same you could say.
And for both their nuke skills. Would you rather take a high damage leap or a high damage stealth gaining skill. On a thief, the choice is pretty clear.Imagine, for a moment, a world in which there was a viable thief build for wvw blobs.
Staff looks to be designed around a hit and run aoe style. The init abilities are the burst, and the auto is intentionally awful because you’re supposed to be using 5 and 2 along with traited dodge and the 8s block/stunbreak to zerg-dive with it and live to tell the tale and maybe even kill someone.
Sword will still be a much better dueling weapon, but staff doesn’t seem built for small fights or staying on any one particular target as much as hitting all the targets a couple times and then using those fancy new utilities and dodge traits to get to your back line where you can regen initiative.
That’s actually one thing I like about what we’ve seen of this spec. The stuff in it doesn’t see to be a “use all these things to make the build we designed for you” as much as “here are some things to make new builds with and shore up some holes in old builds.”
Now if they could have done that without nerfing acro to the ground it would have been better but hey… I’m not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth here.
uhhh, but sword dagger still does that, the fancy utilities and traits work with sword dagger, and they are better at it.
i guess the biggest difference is dash over teleport.
unless theres some differences you cant see in the descriptions, it basically is a flavor choice for a similar playstyle to sword/dagger
make staff 5 targets and its duel vs group, but 3 targets its close enough that it will always be one or the other type thing
The is actually the first time I’ve really been truly hyped for HoT. This specialization looks amazing so far.
Also, I think the AA is better Han what people are giving it credit for since it has higher DPS than sword while also bringing a whirl and 4 vuln.
Dust strike is the only skill that may be underwhelming, but everything else is solid.
The lack of stealth is also a bit curious, but it doesn’t look like it’s really needed.
I can’t see replacing sb with this in conquest, but this may be very strong for stronghold.
As to the elite, I could see approaching an enemy resizing one of them downed allies, then using the first two parts of the chain to interrupt and knock then away, then stomping the downed enemy with part 3. That would be epic!
The is actually the first time I’ve really been truly hyped for HoT. This specialization looks amazing so far.
Also, I think the AA is better Han what people are giving it credit for since it has higher DPS than sword while also bringing a whirl and 4 vuln.
Dust strike is the only skill that may be underwhelming, but everything else is solid.The lack of stealth is also a bit curious, but it doesn’t look like it’s really needed.
I can’t see replacing sb with this in conquest, but this may be very strong for stronghold.
As to the elite, I could see approaching an enemy resizing one of them downed allies, then using the first two parts of the chain to interrupt and knock then away, then stomping the downed enemy with part 3. That would be epic!
i thought in game it showed lower dps than sword in the tool tip
As to the elite, I could see approaching an enemy resizing one of them downed allies, then using the first two parts of the chain to interrupt and knock then away, then stomping the downed enemy with part 3. That would be epic!
You don’t knock them away, you knock them up (see Launch: 0). The attack animation, as I picture it in my head, is similar to Naruto’s “Lions Barrage”.
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
Can we please not make loads of long angry posts based on non tweaked damage coefficients on datamined not yeat announced skill tooltips?
Let me remind everyone of stuff that happens between BWE for example :
Rapid Swipe: Increased the damage by 30%.
Forceful Bash: Increased the damage by 36%.
Rejuvenating Assault: Increased the healing-power scaling by 50%.
Punishing Sweep: Increased the damage by 33%.
Debilitating Slam: Increased the damage by 100%.
Renewing Wave: Increased the healing-power scaling by 30%.
Surge of the Mists: Increased the damage by 11%.Infact i’m not angry at all about the damage.
I’m angry cuz the weapon is useless by design.
Damage is crazy high on certain skills like Vault ( which is also AoE).
On full ini u can do 3 Vaults in a row, dealing stuff like 20-30 k damage in a team fight if they all crit and it’s like the most stupid thing ever.
Weakening charge is even more stupid cuz it costs 3 ini, 450 radius ( whole cap point) and also causes weakness if u stay in range, pretty much same damage.
What i’m complaining about is the fact the weapon has no purpose aside damage.
It has bad defense, bad CC, bad support, bad offensive support ( poison, soft ccs) and very awkwards mechanic like backward evasion and very costly gap closer doing kitten ton of damage for no reason.
Weapon DESIGN is simply bad, not its damage.
If damage stays this way, 2-3 crit hits are all u need to kill ANYTHING.
rofl.
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said about the staff. I can see many thieves taking the DD line and the elite with maybe a utility or 2 but the staff is outclassed by other weapon sets.
Out of curiosity, where are you getting the damage numbers for Vault from? I’ve checked ingame (using my full zerker ascended stats) and the tool tips off the reddit post and in both cases vault is strong but not as strong as you suggest. It’s 20% ish stronger than c&d or a frontal backstab but 40% weaker than a backstab from the rear. Pulmonary Impact (which can;t crit) is 90% of a rear backstab.
I don’t pvp or wvw much these days and from a PvE perspective, staff brings little to the table that dagger and sword don’t already do. As others have mentioned, IA > Vault for getting around and so can’t see much reason for taking it.
However, with the upcoming announcement of challenging content, if ‘tanking’ (note the quotes) becomes needed in some form, then I wonder if staff daredevil could become an evasion tank like class – I’d honestly love that.
Those on tooltips are base numbers.
Base damage for back backstab is 800.
Basically staff 2 and vault damage is like a back backstab.
As things stand now, staff is a poorly designed weap ( S/D is superior in every aspect and even S/P may be thx to pulmonary impact) with 2 overpowered skills like staff 2 and staff 5 ( damage wise).
If they’ve changed those numbers ( something they really should have already done), staff is nothing but a subpar choice with no real identity: 5 randomly put togheter skills with no real purpose aside “being cool”.
WOW THAT ELITE.
" Ennemies struck with this ability are finished"
goodbye basilik V.
Ummmm…
You’re missing something essential there. It only works on “Downed” enemies. It’s just an alternate way of finishing opponents and takes about the same amount of time to do the whole chain of skills as it does to just press ‘F’ and finish them like normal. The only time it will be faster is when the second skill in the chain causes the enemy to go into the downed state.
Here’s a quick question, does weakness only affect regular endurance regen (the 50% reduction) or large chunks of returned endurance as well, such as Endurance Thief (gain 50 endurance on a successful steal)?
WOW THAT ELITE.
" Ennemies struck with this ability are finished"
goodbye basilik V.
Ummmm…
You’re missing something essential there. It only works on “Downed” enemies. It’s just an alternate way of finishing opponents and takes about the same amount of time to do the whole chain of skills as it does to just press ‘F’ and finish them like normal. The only time it will be faster is when the second skill in the chain causes the enemy to go into the downed state.
In some situations, it would actually be better to use basilisk venom. Go stealth, activate basilisk, backstab, fist flurry and that is a huge chunk of damage you just did to them because they were unable to dodge the fist flurry/palm strike combo as they were turned to stone.
WOW THAT ELITE.
" Ennemies struck with this ability are finished"
goodbye basilik V.
Ummmm…
You’re missing something essential there. It only works on “Downed” enemies. It’s just an alternate way of finishing opponents and takes about the same amount of time to do the whole chain of skills as it does to just press ‘F’ and finish them like normal. The only time it will be faster is when the second skill in the chain causes the enemy to go into the downed state.
I’m sure it will play out disjointed for most people most of the time but if you work on your internal skill clock you can hold them still, put them into downed state, and then finish them in a few fluid movements you’re going to be doing anyway. It will be more of a sure thing the more you set it up to finish.
NSP
Wait dash replaces dodge? And daredevil have 3 dodge?
“Dash” has a range of 450?? why would you need shortbow with this much mobility.
All this definitely looks fun. I’m still mad that they gutted acrobatics just to make this specialization, but the specialization is still good.
That’s kind of the point. It has a couple big hitters and some multitarget defensive skills.
S/D is not in fact superior in every aspect. You can not chain cast S/D 2 to move further than its listed range. It does not synergise as well with signet of malice and our life on hit traits. It requires a target. It can only hit 3 targets within very close range compared to 9 total targets along its path of travel. Flanking strike is unwieldy at best due to its lock on nature, and its flip effect leaves you more vulnerable. S/P is tantamount to suicide in any fight where your target has a friend with ranged attacks.
As I said before, S/* is a superior choice for 1v1s, but staff is clearly a superior choice for blob warfare.
It really is a different in playstyle. Sword is precise and controlled, and geared very well for harassment of a single target while evading his friends. The cleave doesn’t really matter as much as the mobility+damage baked in to staff 2 and staff 5.
They’re not at all randomly put together skills. The consistant theme is high damage over a large area, more focus on mobility, and defensive conditions and condition removal rather than a lockdown methodology intended to secure single target ganks.
Staff looks to be very good at what it does: deal big damage quickly to a bunch of people and get out. Its identity is “The AoE Weapon.”
Whether or not playing an AoE style is attractive to you is beside the point. If you like S/D why should you want a weapon that’s essentially just a copy of the role S/D already fills?
What would you have done with staff that made it a unique weapon with a strong identity?
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
You see, people say Staff is garbage and how they don’t see how staff is gonna replace our current things. This is actually good news. What we needed was diversity among other things. Not only that, but this trait truly favors other weapon builds too!
Stop thinking as individuals, and see it an array of possibilities for the Thieves’ Den as a whole!
talking about WvW here, cause that’s all i care about. I only do PvE to get stuff for WvW
We’ ll see the usual D/Ps but we’ ll start seeing even more D/D and a real surge in S/P including a refreshing reappearance of S/D. SB still remains our irreplaceable utility weapon.
Staff will be fixed after BWE and I bet it will be placed damage wise between Dagger & Sword.
You need to see the bright side of things guys. Staff being a bad, useless stick is in fact a great thing for the Thief Community as a whole.
If ONLY, IF ONLY we get could get our traits fixed…
Problem with staff is not damage. Problem with staff is it has no purpose as a weapon. Its skills are terribly designed and if u may happen to see any use in WwW or PvP is cuz Vault seems to hit like a truck ( base damage is higher than back backstab O__o ) and people will simply spam it till ini ends or opponents melt.
It’s stupid
How could you say that? That’s an unreasonable assessment you put up. Staff has no purpose as a weapon?
How about: steady application of weakness, a dodge roll immobilize cleanse, a blind, a sexy Vault, combined with a 4 stacks of Vulnerability? Come on man.
Staff cannot behave like Dagger or Sword or Pistol. It has to be different and offers its own way of killing people.You said Vault is gonna be spammable? If you are bad Thief maybe. However, any Thief with a minimum of dignity knows you don’t spam something that has 6 initiative costs, the same exact way you do not ever spam HeartSeeker.
If spamming a 3ini skill is dangerous, then what about spamming a 6ini skill?
hint: Common sense
So please, it’s far from stupid.
I…I honestly Disagree with you and I very much agree with Mr.Big.
Dagger auto can apply constant weakness for people in deadly arts, and it’s an AA
Sword auto applies weakness and cripple ,and it’s an AA
Withdraw can cleanse immoblize, and sword 2 cleanses condi and can port backwards
/p is basically a blind on demand
Pretty much everything staff does, another weapon combo can do the same and better.
Why chose a staff when you can have s/d or s/p
Nothing is even close to the utility of SB
The Vault is most likely going to work like engineer’s rifle 5.
AND it’s going to have a cast and traveltime.
(edited by Solori.6025)
Here is the inspiration behind Fist Flurry, Palm Strike, and Pulmonary Impact:
language warning
(edited by Evil Seabass.5214)
Wait dash replaces dodge? And daredevil have 3 dodge?
“Dash” has a range of 450?? why would you need shortbow with this much mobility.
Dash is only 360 distance (i.e. 20% more than a normal dodge). Also you may have to pick this as it doesn’t look like a minor trait.
Overall, dash would supplement the sb for mobility really well, I doubt it will be able to replace it even combined with the other evades from the DD line as 900 units is quite a lot of distance from IA and its instant/ spammable.
Was checking out the traits again, and noticed we’re only seeing 11 of them. What’s the 12th? http://imgur.com/a/Ee6t8#7
Was checking out the traits again, and noticed we’re only seeing 11 of them. What’s the 12th? http://imgur.com/a/Ee6t8#7
My gut feeling is that it’s going to be a 3rd type of dodge like Impaling Lotus or Dash. Maybe there will be one to choose from in each tier, or one tier just has all 3 types. One is helping against impairing conditions and enhances mobility, one is more offensive with conditions, so maybe one that’s more power damage-related?
Resident Thief
(edited by Auesis.7301)
Let’s see what actually makes it live this doesn’t justify base thief nerfs anyway.
The Dhuumfire thread