Guild Wars 2

Simply put, DS is good but useless on Thief. We are Thiefs and NOT a Warrior. In what logic do they think we can survive 8sec getting stabbed by everyone?

IMO, we really need more Utility skills that help and define us as a Thief.

As a suggestion, I would like to see a change to this Elite skill as something like this:
-reduces the duration from 8sec to 3sec.
-makes the attack twice as fast(if 8hits in 8sec then it will be 6hits in 3sec)
-makes it grant Evade for 3sec.
-removes Stability (there is no need once you have Evasion)
note: I know DS was once used to be like this but for some alien’s reason they changed it to what it is now, sigh

With this change it will open more ways for Thief to play and survive instead of using the old DS to troll people in WvW.

Would be ridiculously overpowered with that 3 second invulnerability.

How would you describe Blurred Frenzy with 2sec invulnerability and 10sec CD as?

Siva Mira.3546:

How would you describe Blurred Frenzy with 2sec invulnerability and 10sec CD as?

bah, other classes DESERVE to have INVULNERABILITY
while us(thieves) are getting the nerfbat each patch

- One spin
- Hit every opponent within the radius
- damage, cripple, bleeding still applies

The animation can be simplified to have the Thief in a crouching position then spins around to send out daggers in all direction. The daggers will travel up to the edge of its range then drop to the floor.

No more 8s of spinning like an idiot.

I like the current dagger storm though…

Honestly, I’d rather see Dagger Storm similar to the Dagger Storm used by the NPCs, only without the Scorpion Wire tossing built into the skill (honestly, putting that in it would classify it as a nerf).

Then again, what you are describing, with three seconds of multiple daggers flying out of our hands really fast, sounds really cool too and actually fits the name of a Dagger Storm. I wonder, instead of evasion, why not protection and reflection?

“Simply put, DS is good but useless on Thief. We are Thiefs and NOT a Warrior. In what logic do they think we can survive 8sec getting stabbed by everyone?”

I suspect you are saying that it is useless on a PvP thief. It’s fine for PvE as a short distanced ranged attack with missile reflection. Missile reflection is a top utility even on an elite skill.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Would be ridiculously overpowered with that 3 second invulnerability.

Are you MAD . 3 seconds dagger storm overpowered, that grants invuln. Talk to the mesmers who can spam that what.. Every 8 seconds I believe. This is cake work compared to that. Or a warrior endure pain 4-6 secs, and still being able to do a 24k critted combo?

I think it’s a good reform to DS. Or shall I say revert.

I think it was changed because the previous version (similar to the op’s suggestion) was a bit lacklaster. and wasn’t really that good back in the beta. So they made it 8 secs slowed the attack rate down, and gave it reflect. which is now alot better then it was imo.

ur either too glassy or you don’t know how to compliment and use Dagger Storm. It’s Balanced and a pretty awesome Elite.

Currently, Whirling Wrath does more damage then DS.

Daecollo.9578:

Currently, Whirling Wrath does more damage then DS.

100b does more dmg then whirling wrath

bladie.5084:

Daecollo.9578:

Currently, Whirling Wrath does more damage then DS.

100b does more dmg then whirling wrath

Actually no it doesn’t.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Wrath

The spin hits 7 times and throws 7 projectiles, for a total of 14 possible hits on a single target. Damage listed appears to be for all 7 spinning hits and 2 projectiles.
Disabling the “Melee attack assist” option in your settings, which prevents your character from moving into the hitbox of enemies, will allow you to use this skill from the inside of an enemy, hitting with both the melee attack and the projectiles resulting in a substantial increase in total damage to the target.

Its possible to bolster up that damage by another 894. So its really Damage (9x): 1,251 + 894 in projectiles, if you turn off melee thing, it goes up to 2145 (which is 115 more damage then 100b.) (Hundred Blades also takes 2.6x longer to cast.)

However, the damage only works if your standing right on top of your opponent.

It can create even more damage if you count in virtue procs/combo fields.

Daecollo.9578:

bladie.5084:

Daecollo.9578:

Currently, Whirling Wrath does more damage then DS.

100b does more dmg then whirling wrath

Actually no it doesn’t.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Wrath

The spin hits 7 times and throws 7 projectiles, for a total of 14 possible hits on a single target. Damage listed appears to be for all 7 spinning hits and 2 projectiles.
Disabling the “Melee attack assist” option in your settings, which prevents your character from moving into the hitbox of enemies, will allow you to use this skill from the inside of an enemy, hitting with both the melee attack and the projectiles resulting in a substantial increase in total damage to the target.

Its possible to bolster up that damage by another 894. So its really Damage (9x): 1,251 + 894 in projectiles, if you turn off melee thing, it goes up to 2145 (which is 115 more damage then 100b.) (Hundred Blades also takes 2.6x longer to cast.)

However, the damage only works if your standing right on top of your opponent.

It can create even more damage if you count in virtue procs/combo fields.

Back stab does more dmg and killshot does more damage. mind wrack does more dmg.

So because whirling wrath does more damage, dagger storm should be buffed? This is what you’re implying, right?

bladie.5084:

Daecollo.9578:

bladie.5084:

Daecollo.9578:

Currently, Whirling Wrath does more damage then DS.

100b does more dmg then whirling wrath

Actually no it doesn’t.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Wrath

The spin hits 7 times and throws 7 projectiles, for a total of 14 possible hits on a single target. Damage listed appears to be for all 7 spinning hits and 2 projectiles.
Disabling the “Melee attack assist” option in your settings, which prevents your character from moving into the hitbox of enemies, will allow you to use this skill from the inside of an enemy, hitting with both the melee attack and the projectiles resulting in a substantial increase in total damage to the target.

Its possible to bolster up that damage by another 894. So its really Damage (9x): 1,251 + 894 in projectiles, if you turn off melee thing, it goes up to 2145 (which is 115 more damage then 100b.) (Hundred Blades also takes 2.6x longer to cast.)

However, the damage only works if your standing right on top of your opponent.

It can create even more damage if you count in virtue procs/combo fields.

Back stab does more dmg and killshot does more damage. mind wrack does more dmg.

So because whirling wrath does more damage, dagger storm should be buffed? This is what you’re implying, right?

Yep! :> Its a pretty pathetic skill since aoe cap was added to it.

Dagger Storm needs a buff, yes. And invulnerability while attacking in an AoE is perfect, yes.

Yes.

YEESSSSS >:D

Master of Timespace.2548:

Would be ridiculously overpowered with that 3 second invulnerability.

Lol rangers have invul, engis have invul, guardians, have invul, warriors have invul, mesmers have invul (x2).

Why thieves can’t have 3 sec evade on ELITE skill? It’s ridicolous.

Because if you know how to use dagger storm properly, you wouldn’t need invul.

WAIT FOR IT… WAIT FOR IT….. this is not Dagger storm being bad, this is a L2P issue.

bladie.5084:

Because if you know how to use dagger storm properly, you wouldn’t need invul.

WAIT FOR IT… WAIT FOR IT….. this is not Dagger storm being bad, this is a L2P issue.

Normally I’d agree with this statement but something actually does need to be fixed with dagger storm. Currently, if you’re moving and casting, some projectiles will get through the reflect and blow you up. The biggest abusers of this tactic (hitting you with projectiles while you have a reflect of self-skill active) are Lupi and the little eles on grawl fractal. If you’re not standing perfectly still, you’re going to get blown up. It’s funny that this could be fixed if the radius to what projectiles you could reflect was increased, this issue would be gone and it’d be nothing more than a QoL buff. Making a reflect actually reflect would be nice.

randomfightfan.4091:

bladie.5084:

Because if you know how to use dagger storm properly, you wouldn’t need invul.

WAIT FOR IT… WAIT FOR IT….. this is not Dagger storm being bad, this is a L2P issue.

Normally I’d agree with this statement but something actually does need to be fixed with dagger storm. Currently, if you’re moving and casting, some projectiles will get through the reflect and blow you up. The biggest abusers of this tactic (hitting you with projectiles while you have a reflect of self-skill active) are Lupi and the little eles on grawl fractal. If you’re not standing perfectly still, you’re going to get blown up. It’s funny that this could be fixed if the radius to what projectiles you could reflect was increased, this issue would be gone and it’d be nothing more than a QoL buff. Making a reflect actually reflect would be nice.

You’re talking about fixing something.

Others are actually talking about an actual buff (which is uncalled for)
-Random 3secs invul.
- Unjustified Random dmg buff (because other skills can hit harder) — Just cuz certain skills hit harder doesn’t mean they are better.

So my answer to that is: They’re doing it wrong, L2P.
—Dagger storm is a force to be reckoned with, when done right.

Dagger Storm is fine, I know everyone would love their elite to be effective for the full duration, but if we apply this to all the elites, Lich Necromancers will be downing people like flies. Moreover, Dagger Storm has an average cooldown, not that long to be actually way too situational. You can use it and disengage once your health is at risk, then use it again later on.

TL/DR: Dagger Storm is fine and does not needs any buffing.

Siva Mira.3546:

How would you describe Blurred Frenzy with 2sec invulnerability and 10sec CD as?

It roots. Also, that 2 sec inv. skill corresponds to many skills thief has in their weapon sets:
d/p – infinite stealth and blind field.
x/d – spammable stealth, death blossom evades, so does flanking strike.
s/p – pistol whip evades, blind field.

Even warrior has somewhat similiar skill: whirling attack of great sword. It evades for only 3/4 seconds, but deals more damage and into a greater arc, in addition of being a quick movement boost. It has the exact same cool down.

So yeah, that blurred frenzy isn’t as special as it may appear for rookies. It’s just generally more defensive version of the many evade skills differend professions have.

But make dagger storm a 3 second invulnerability that bleeds and doesnt root on 90 second cl. My thief will LOVE it.

Dagger storm for me is only used for tagging the zerg, stability, fighting a ranger(special occasion). Other than that it is completely useless to me in wvw. Do the daggers even bounce? I like the evade because the locked animation makes you completely vulnerable to melee players (aka everybody). To us thieves, dagger storm is considered a troll. Fix it please.

Stealth =\= invul, but yes many skills do have a second or 2 of invul or evades ( most have 1/4 to 3/4 second of it)
It did have evade I think (same thing as invul) and it was pretty op at the time, same with whirling axe stolen skil.

I guess some people just don’t get what I mean.

In what way did I sound like DS need damage buff?
Did I even suggest one?

bladie.5084:

Because if you know how to use dagger storm properly, you wouldn’t need invul.

WAIT FOR IT… WAIT FOR IT….. this is not Dagger storm being bad, this is a L2P issue.

What exactly do I have to wait for? Can you please enlighten me?

Azraeel.1238:

Dagger Storm is fine, I know everyone would love their elite to be effective for the full duration, but if we apply this to all the elites, Lich Necromancers will be downing people like flies. Moreover, Dagger Storm has an average cooldown, not that long to be actually way too situational. You can use it and disengage once your health is at risk, then use it again later on.

TL/DR: Dagger Storm is fine and does not needs any buffing.

Isn’t it what we called “useless skill”? So now, Thiefs don’t have to fight anymore they just need to run everywhere they go?

BobbyT.7192:

Stealth =\= invul, but yes many skills do have a second or 2 of invul or evades ( most have 1/4 to 3/4 second of it)
It did have evade I think (same thing as invul) and it was pretty op at the time, same with whirling axe stolen skil.

IIRC, it was 4sec Evade and deals a ton of crap damage that it took like 5 men team half of their HP in one Elite skill. And then it was changed to what we have now, by extend the duration to 8sec and doing little damage compare to what it did before. It was OP before but my suggestion was not to ask it to come back.

:D I am all for thief buffs!

The burst damage on the old Dagger Storm was huge, so during beta it received not only a damage nerf but it was also spread in twice the time it used to damage before. Yes, Dagger Storm + Signet of Malice is basically 8 seconds “invul” inside a zerg in WvW, but there is zero use for it against less foes, simply because the chance of it hitting em only once is too high and that once will deal less damage than a dagger auto attack. It needs to be tweaked on an effort to make it less situational.

In sPvP it is not even used due to how easy it is to break it, any decent mesmer/necro (which there are plenty) will make short work of it and then we have Thieves Guild that just die too easily to aoes. Basilisk Venom is king because the options aren’t any better, and I would love to see some variety of elites when watching tournaments with Thief players.

They should increase the number of Dagger and active the komboend effect every 1-2 sec (not only at the start).

To increase the Dmg of DS, ähm mabye but never never make us invul, its were OP and inexplicable.

Siva Mira.3546:

I guess some people just don’t get what I mean.

In what way did I sound like DS need damage buff?
Did I even suggest one?

this wasn’t directed towards you, this was directed towards to whomever thought DS needed a buff especially when Whirling wrath does much more. Read other’s post and you will understand.

Siva Mira.3546:

bladie.5084:

Because if you know how to use dagger storm properly, you wouldn’t need invul.

WAIT FOR IT… WAIT FOR IT….. this is not Dagger storm being bad, this is a L2P issue.

What exactly do I have to wait for? Can you please enlighten me?

It means learn how to use it.

Sorry but imo this is a very bad idea because the main reasone to use Dagger Storm is
to refleckt Projectiles, and with a shorter duration you can refelt less. Also you do know
that you can move while using Dagger Storm, right? You also can use any sort of instant
Teleport (which most forms of Shadow Steps are), and if you want to canel it, all you
need is to bind a “sheath weapons” button. Also you shoudln’t forgett about the long
whirl finisher (longest in the game?)

Use it in a condi build and find an Ethereal field to throw out massive amounts of confusion :>

Cyhann.2609:

Sorry but imo this is a very bad idea because the main reasone to use Dagger Storm is
to refleckt Projectiles, and with a shorter duration you can refelt less. Also you do know
that you can move while using Dagger Storm, right? You also can use any sort of instant
Teleport (which most forms of Shadow Steps are), and if you want to canel it, all you
need is to bind a “sheath weapons” button. Also you shoudln’t forgett about the long
whirl finisher (longest in the game?)

If your main reason to use DS is to use reflection then I think you should consider playing other class that has more and better reflection skills.
If your elite skill needs some other skills to help it to use it then I think this elite need some serious look at.
Longest whirling finisher does not mean anything when you combo finisher suck.
And lastly, once you have Evade there is NO way you can reflect thing anymore. Therefore, in my suggestion, the whirling finisher was removed.

Iavra.8510:

Use it in a condi build and find an Ethereal field to throw out massive amounts of confusion :>

IMO, this is an Elite skill, and Elite skills should be used by everyone not a certain someone.

Dagger storm is fine atm, it forces ranged classes to stop attacking you or you can just use it for 8 seconds of stability.

If you bind stow/sheathe weapons you can cancel the animation when you want.

Would be nice if we could use it underwater !!!!

The only change I’d like to see with dagger storm is for it to change the thief into a type of obstacle so all ranged attacks that would pass through the thief would also be reflected and not just the projectiles that would target the thief. This way it would have value in zerg on zerg combat.

Now as far as defending yourself while spinning… why are you using it when you’re being meleed? While I’m cool with it granting stability and endure pain for X seconds, I’m more concerned with the class’ overall lack of real utility than I am with using a skill as a dps tool.

The reason DS is underwhelming:
1: It doesnt have much of an impact. Even when you shadowstep into the middle of an enemy zerg sometimes it feels like the daggers hardly hit anything.

2. It relies on other skills to be good. Your at risk of damaging yourself, spinning around like a tool. If it werent for shadowstep or signet of malice, DS would be more detrimental to a thief. One root is all it takes.

3. You dont hit things you should. Your spinning right near a bunch of guys and sometimes it feels like your just waiting to do damage.

4. Its easy to counter. Root the thief and melee him. When ranged, switch targets. DS is so ignorable its ridiculous. Yes, its great at killing bad rangers who would die easily without DS anyway..

So, its easily counterable, has inconsistent damage, doesnt work well as a reflect to the players you need it against, it makes you look like a tool and as an elite, isnt effective at all by itself. At least it gives stability, right? Wait, here comes a S/D thief..

Not my favourite ulti.

Oh, its good on NPC camps…

Siva Mira.3546”

Isn’t it what we called “useless skill”? So now, Thiefs don’t have to fight anymore they just need to run everywhere they go?

I don’t know why you find it useless, now if you are running a full glass cannon, this is mainly your problem for not holding out on few hits, but whenever there is more than one target, my Dagger Storm starts doing big numbers, and not only that, I get to tag many people in zergs to get credit once they die. This is all I expect from this Elite.

This is the problem: Dagger storm is a situational Elite in which there is a time to use it to maximize its potential. And when you use it, you have to strategize in when it is the perfect time, which area is best, and have utilities on standby to maximize your mobility while casting DS.

Now.. This is what you guys are expecting from DS: One hit button for autokilling everything and never die from using DS. WTH isn’t that a bit OP?

These ideas are a bit Silly. People can talk about how DS is easily countered, but I can talk about how other Elites are easily countered as well.

People haven’t stated that one of the main reasons why DS isn’t as strong as it used to be. That’s because in the beginning, Melee players used to run away everytime they see a thief use DS and ranged classes would hit from afar (lol). Now Players are getting smarter, they know what to do. It’s YOUR job to out think them. Isn’t that your job, as a thief?

Dagger storm is fine. Perfect combination of nice damage, missile reflect and short cooldown. Sure, might be not that great in tPvP, but actually pretty good in PvE and in many WvW situations. Combine it with combo field, and its superb.

No need to change this one. If anything, i find Basilisk Venom to be absolute trash, since its elite specifically designed for one type of thief build.

Preacher.9018:

Dagger storm is fine. Perfect combination of nice damage, missile reflect and short cooldown. Sure, might be not that great in tPvP, but actually pretty good in PvE and in many WvW situations. Combine it with combo field, and its superb.

No need to change this one. If anything, i find Basilisk Venom to be absolute trash, since its elite specifically designed for one type of thief build.

Venoms in general are crap.

They should all be instant cast, should all do a high damage poison dot, and should probably all criple the target. The chill poison could then be changed to a direct damage + poison or something.

But yes, in general all venoms suck.

They should reduce Dagger Storm to 45 second CD. It got nerfed wayyyy to much.

Siva Mira.3546:

If your main reason to use DS is to use reflection then I think you should consider playing other class that has more and better reflection skills.

Uhm, why should I play another class, just because I use one skill in paricular
for its ability to reflect projectiles? It’s not like it’s the reason to play a class
or something. o_O

Siva Mira.3546:

If your elite skill needs some other skills to help it to use it then I think this elite need some serious look at.

It’s not needed but based on the situation it surley can help, whats wrong with this?
Chaining / Comboing Skills in a usefull way , so that they get more effective, doesn’t make the Skills any worse.

You should only DS inside a combo field. Those who demands invulnerability deserves to die anyway for misusing this skill.

They should make it 25-30sec CD which is higher recharge than headbutt for warriors and make it an instant activation channel (righ tnow it has a slight windup time) 2 sec reflect with 2 sec stability so if you see a pin down coming in you could quickly reflect it or a part of a rapid fire could be reflected. The stability part could be useful when you have no dodges but you see an Earthshaker flying at you. And it would continue to throw like 2 daggers/target during this time+whirl finishers.
NO evades and such need to be added!

Daggerstorm is hot garbage, especially in SPvP. When an elite gets outclassed by a stolen skill bundle, you know it’s REALLY bad.

Cooldown too long, channels for too long, does too little damage for a skill that channels for that long, damage only remotely good if you’re whirling in fields (your own of which will expire long before the skill does), requires you to be in “murder me” range as the squishiest profession in the game to use in SPvP… do I really need to go on?

Daecollo.9578:

bladie.5084:

Daecollo.9578:

Currently, Whirling Wrath does more damage then DS.

100b does more dmg then whirling wrath

Actually no it doesn’t.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Wrath

The spin hits 7 times and throws 7 projectiles, for a total of 14 possible hits on a single target. Damage listed appears to be for all 7 spinning hits and 2 projectiles.
Disabling the “Melee attack assist” option in your settings, which prevents your character from moving into the hitbox of enemies, will allow you to use this skill from the inside of an enemy, hitting with both the melee attack and the projectiles resulting in a substantial increase in total damage to the target.

Its possible to bolster up that damage by another 894. So its really Damage (9x): 1,251 + 894 in projectiles, if you turn off melee thing, it goes up to 2145 (which is 115 more damage then 100b.) (Hundred Blades also takes 2.6x longer to cast.)

However, the damage only works if your standing right on top of your opponent.

It can create even more damage if you count in virtue procs/combo fields.

And this is somethign, that needs to get fixed… this kind of skill behavior is absolutely NOT intended for, when you can get a gameplay ADVANTAGE like massive more damage from a skill ,by deactivating a game mechanic of the options menu..

Seriously?! FIX ASAP. This explains now also ,why this skill feels lately so extremely overpowered, especialyl with all the power creeped burning now and wehy its possible for guardians to get so extremely easiyl super high burning stacks

PS: Daggerstorm needs a redesign,, the skil lhas become right at the moment were anet nerfed Stability total garbage, that can be instantly stopped by just ripping off your Stability and it instantly stops you… instead of spinning just further without stability, until the duration is over …

Dagger Storm
Gain a Kit of Daggers, replaces for the next 30 seconds your Skill Bar with a Set of Throwing Dagger Skills

AA 1) Flying Daggers
Throw a Fan of 8 Daggers, 4 in each of your hand in a fan shaped cone, with that you will hit all foes in that Cone area in front up you. Flying Daggers causes each time you hit with it a different Condition of either Bleeding,Cripple, Poison, or Vulnerability.

2) Exploding Daggers
Throw two Daggers with attached Dynamite to them that will explode on impact, causing per hit 2s of Burning and 1s of Daze.

3) Piercing Daggers
Throws some Daggers, that hit multiples foes in a line of sight, being unblockable and removing with each hit a Boon from hit targets.

4) Toxic Daggers
Throw some with Skelk Venom imbued Daggers, that will let you leech Health from Targets with the hits. Toxic Daggers gives you also Quickness, while the hit Targets receive Slow. Increases also the Effectiveness of Poison, raising the Heal reduction from 33% to 50%, when under Cripple, Slow or Vulnerability

5) Precise Daggers
Throws some Daggers which reflect all incoming projectiles back to their origin and that stronger, than normal. The reflected Projectiles will cause the Targets to suffer also on Torment for each reflected Projectile

Yes revert DS to old form. It should be an Elite skill, now it’s more like a suicide skill. At least in pvp and wvw. Useless as kitten

I’ve seen this skill save thieves countless times.

I’ve seen this skill wreck thieves’ enemies countless times.

I honestly didn’t think there was anyone out there who didn’t like the skill from time to time over bassilisk.