Guild Wars 2

That means it’s actually worth taking now. YAY!!! :-D

Go stack those poisons!!!

Kageseigi.2150:

That means it’s actually worth taking now. YAY!!! :-D

Go stack those poisons!!!

Inb4 update that “fixes the bug”

What BobbyT said. They took out ricochet all quietly like they’ll probably “fix” that quietly too.

DT even combined with Potent Poisons & a runeset focused on enhancing poison duration isn’t even worth it for thieves.

If you want to stack poison, go with leeching venoms / venomous aura, you don’t need Dagger Training and you certainly don’t need Potent Poisons either, the damage buff and duration is completely negligible. They are both utter jokes, end of story.

Seriously … I mean if you try them, have fun feeling even less effective especially when compared to your now god-tier burst thief counterparts. 11k backstabs in spvp not even WvW! 6k Heartseekers, I don’t really need to say anything more.

Edit: Also, because “Arenanet” as reasons, screw ricochet giving the already mocked and laughed at pistol thieves even more of a reason to be laughed at and mocked. Anet obviously doesn’t care about thieves and whoever is in charge of thief traits doesn’t understand condi thieves beyond the core mechanic of “burst works, lets focus on this and nothing else because I’m literally too ignorant to focus on anything else and hope it’s decent.”

Seriously, mad props to how fail Anet is.

I thank you for the last paragraph. I <3 pistols, but I can’t play pistols, otherwise people will NEVER EVER EVER freaggin EVER let me in on their dungeon/fractal teams. Actually I wouldn’t even let me in 40 fractal/ speed dungeon runs. Sad. So sad.

Jesiah.2457:

DT even combined with Potent Poisons & a runeset focused on enhancing poison duration isn’t even worth it for thieves.

If you want to stack poison, go with leeching venoms / venomous aura, you don’t need Dagger Training and you certainly don’t need Potent Poisons either, the damage buff and duration is completely negligible. They are both utter jokes, end of story.

Seriously … I mean if you try them, have fun feeling even less effective especially when compared to your now god-tier burst thief counterparts. 11k backstabs in spvp not even WvW! 6k Heartseekers, I don’t really need to say anything more.

Edit: Also, because “Arenanet” as reasons, screw ricochet giving the already mocked and laughed at pistol thieves even more of a reason to be laughed at and mocked. Anet obviously doesn’t care about thieves and whoever is in charge of thief traits doesn’t understand condi thieves beyond the core mechanic of “burst works, lets focus on this and nothing else because I’m literally too ignorant to focus on anything else and hope it’s decent.”

Seriously, mad props to how fail Anet is.

Yeah … you’re welcome Minx. I feel your pain, but in a different way. Arenanet was so busy buffing burst damage / other aspects of thieves they felt it was necessary to nerf Shortbow #4 … again.

The poison uptime is ridiculously hard to work with now, even with potent poisons and a runeset focus on poison duration combined to simply bring it back to three seconds – the stacking mechanic makes it difficult to maintain (let alone loses a TON of damage over cluster bomb anyway) and so it seems like just spamming cluster bombs is the only way to dps with it now.

Obviously that poison was going to be OP with patch … looool. (But let’s just ignore the 11k backstabs and huge AA chains from S/X!) Seriously, sometimes I wonder how much work they actually put into certain aspects of this game. :/

Thieves can now crit backstab for 11k, BETTER NERF SHORTBOW AND PISTOLS! BUILD DIVERSITY FOR EVERYONE! \o/

Dagger training is horrible trait, this trait apply +- 3 stack poison with 100% condition duration on 3 sec.

Needle trap trait with signet of malice apply 3x bleed on 20sec,1x poison on 20 sec,5x vul and might.

In PVE i apply 60x bleed stack on boss with good F1 skills.

Finally, someone else who understands how Dagger Training isn’t worth a kitten !

Dagger Training lets you Weaken multiple enemies easily. The Lotus Poison minor trait has a 10 second cooldown per target. Spread the poison, spread the weakness.

misterdevious.6482:

Dagger Training lets you Weaken multiple enemies easily. The Lotus Poison minor trait has a 10 second cooldown per target. Spread the poison, spread the weakness.

Lotus Strike make poison to, same 4 on LB and effective, you dont need waste trait.
Maybe if he had a 66% chance on apply poison, not 33% lol

At random first thing I did after patch was try spamming SB#4 on a skale. The poison couldn’t get past it’s regen. A mere second or 2 after fields drop the dang lizard is no longer poisoned. What the heck is the point now?

Jesiah.2457:

DT even combined with Potent Poisons & a runeset focused on enhancing poison duration isn’t even worth it for thieves.

If you want to stack poison, go with leeching venoms / venomous aura, you don’t need Dagger Training and you certainly don’t need Potent Poisons either, the damage buff and duration is completely negligible. They are both utter jokes, end of story.

Seriously … I mean if you try them, have fun feeling even less effective especially when compared to your now god-tier burst thief counterparts. 11k backstabs in spvp not even WvW! 6k Heartseekers, I don’t really need to say anything more.

Edit: Also, because “Arenanet” as reasons, screw ricochet giving the already mocked and laughed at pistol thieves even more of a reason to be laughed at and mocked. Anet obviously doesn’t care about thieves and whoever is in charge of thief traits doesn’t understand condi thieves beyond the core mechanic of “burst works, lets focus on this and nothing else because I’m literally too ignorant to focus on anything else and hope it’s decent.”

Seriously, mad props to how fail Anet is.

A guildie and myself tested max backstabs on each other in PvP, he hit me for 16k with backstab and 3.4k with mug using 66006 D/P on a signet build with revealed training, scholar runes etc.

With damage like that, poison is really not worth a lot unless you’re fighting a sponge.

misterdevious.6482:

Dagger Training lets you Weaken multiple enemies easily. The Lotus Poison minor trait has a 10 second cooldown per target. Spread the poison, spread the weakness.

That’s quite interesting. Did you learn that through testing, or is it mentioned in release notes anywhere?

Kury.8210:

At random first thing I did after patch was try spamming SB#4 on a skale. The poison couldn’t get past it’s regen. A mere second or 2 after fields drop the dang lizard is no longer poisoned. What the heck is the point now?

Yeah, I’m pretty sure Anet felt that poison stacking on thieves was going to be this amazing thing … so they yet again nerfed the poison duration on SB #4, (probably because of kitten -tier GM trait Potent Poisons) and realistically it never deserved the nerf in the first place.

Potent Poisons needs to be at LEAST 50% duration + 20% increased poison damage to even start to come close to other things out there, couple that with a revert to Shortbow #4 and DT having at least three seconds baseline, and this actually opens up some build options for increasing duration without a ridiculous investment for negligible results.

Using a carrion amulet I’ve yet to clear 4k ticks using venom share with poison venom on thieves guild, DT, Potent Poisons, runeset of orr and venom sigils, steal having 2 stacks obviously, and starting from SB with #4. So on a 180 second CD (Thieves Guild) I can get up to 4k ticks on a non condi cleansing / AI target, so this is basically just on paper stuff.

Where as I’ve seen Ele’s pull off 8k burning ticks with not nearly as much setup / cooldowns required to do so. I really do not think SB #4 deserved a nerf and this is a ridiculously huge investment to try to get something even remotely strong out of it.

Meanwhile, 16k backstabs? Better nerf shortbow!

Also keep DT and Potent Poison kitten by comparison to literally everything else at this point, thanks Anet. <3

Kury.8210:

At random first thing I did after patch was try spamming SB#4 on a skale. The poison couldn’t get past it’s regen. A mere second or 2 after fields drop the dang lizard is no longer poisoned. What the heck is the point now?

Where was this skale, If it was queensdale or other low level zone it understandable because it scales down your condi damage a lot,
And those kitteners have insane regen :P

I think Kury more meant that the poison doesn’t last very long. Previously SB #4 used to stack poison duration, so it was much more useful in that aspect, but now that it stacks intensity AND took a nerf to the duration of poison per pulse and so as a result the duration is extremely short by comparison of pre-patch.

Shortbow #4 didn’t need a nerf and might even be possible to buff without it becoming ridiculously OP or anything close to such. If you’re worried that poison will do too much damage, you should see an Elementalist in SPvP with no food buffs OR might being able to pull off 8k burning ticks.

Poison with a ton of collected stacks and Carrion won’t push more than 3-4k with something that feels like “the planets aligned” for it to happen and the investment required to do so will nerf you in several other areas, netting a damage loss really.

Shortbow #4 will not even come close to something crazy like either of the above at 3 seconds base. In fact, I don’t even think 4 seconds base would be ridiculous either because realistically if even two pulses landed on someone, that is only a 5 second duration of poison where as pre-patch at 3 seconds, two pulses is a 6 second duration. Where as now two pulses at 2 second duration actually only adds up to 3 seconds of poison duration. That is absolutely huge in terms of poison uptime and really hurts.

This overall makes poison up time at 2 seconds per pulse extremely hard to work with as far as up time goes, not to mention a damage loss through shorter duration and the fact poison now needs to stack twice in order to not lose damage compared to pre-patch formula

This nerf hit shortbow excessively hard and is pitifully sad compared to some of the damaging condition setups out there. :/

Kageseigi.2150:

misterdevious.6482:

Dagger Training lets you Weaken multiple enemies easily. The Lotus Poison minor trait has a 10 second cooldown per target. Spread the poison, spread the weakness.

That’s quite interesting. Did you learn that through testing, or is it mentioned in release notes anywhere?

It has worked this way for a long time and was mentioned on the wiki. I checked again in the game to be sure, and yes it still has a 10s cooldown per target.

Dagger Training: “Chance to Poison Foes (which by the way will also put 4 seconds of Weakness on them from the minor trait, which I forgot to mention has a 10 second cooldown per target.)”

Or you could just use poison aoe from shortbow and instantly put that weakness on them + blast finisher for slightly longer duration.

This also doesn’t require a trait to do the same thing with a higher effective rate of doing what you just mentioned. Dagger Training is not very good at it’s current values and SB if traited into DA is going to pretty much serve only that purpose along with with mobility, that’s pretty much it.

Not to mention dagger 1 only hits two targets and death blossom is limited to three.

Jesiah.2457:

I think Kury more meant that the poison doesn’t last very long. Previously SB #4 used to stack poison duration, so it was much more useful in that aspect, but now that it stacks intensity AND took a nerf to the duration of poison per pulse and so as a result the duration is extremely short by comparison of pre-patch.

Yeah, it’s the duration that really gets at me. Damage is explainable because down levelling (bloodtide coast), but that wouldn’t really matter if it at least lasted long enough to do something while healing was down.

Stackable poison nerfs the duration already. It makes short duration poison pretty much worthless.

Yep, exactly.

Nerf was absolutely unnecessary and even at 4 seconds, it would be far from OP, even with poison duration increases. There’s a lot of options you sacrifice if you try to spec heavily into that anyway.

Potent Poisons over Improvisation is a huuuuge no, it’s way better than I thought it was. Two steal items and then randomly recharged utilities including elite and heal holy … screw Potent Poisons, not even close to worth it.

Executioner has it’s place though too. Definite balanced tradeoff there, but not that other trait that I imagine will be mostly ignored, kind of like Dagger Training. I can understand trapper’s respite, that’s good and opens up more things to play with, and mug is always welcome for burst healing, especially considering our sustain.

Dagger Training though, hahaha … haaa … haha. Nope, not even close. Still suck-tier even combined with a GM trait and rune set to give it one whole additional second.