Guild Wars 2

Kephos.9675:

Ravnodaus.5130:

I hit a heavy target dummy for 18-19k with 100 blades on my warrior in sPvP. That is about 1.5 seconds or less because of quickness. It’d be even worse in WvW because of higher power/crit damage…. and lower toughness targets… mmm.

It isn’t just thief that can burst for really big numbers…

100 blades is very easy to evade and are 8 hit dont have any point of comparation with 1 unnespected hit impossible to evade

First off, if a thief uses stealth and you don’t expect for the thief to try and use Backstab, I really don’t know what else to say to you.

100 Blades can be easily followed by CC abilities (be it a weapon swap from Hammer stun, Bull’s Charge knockdown, etc.). A warrior has a ton of CC options to have Hundred Blades follow.

Backstab has a .25 second cast time. This means that after Steal and CnD (which is about a second total), you should definitely have dodged before Backstab hits you. If you’re just standing still, expecting to be able to use your 1337deeps to your advantage, then yes, you should be killed. Just as you would if Hundred Blades was used on you, or any of the other many burst builds.

Also, Hundred Blades, on a glass cannon build, hits more than twice as hard as Backstab. If they made it instant, there’d be enormous balance problems. Not only that, but a Warrior in a glass cannon build has 8000 more health, more armor, and a 5 second invulnerable ability that also breaks stuns (it can also be extended through traits). A thief has stealth, which is easily countered by using CC (the only stealth ability that can be used while stunned doesn’t break stun).

I have never been instantly killed by a thief. Not on any class that I play (Guardian, Thief, Mesmer, Necro, and Warrior). If you stop standing still, thief loses a lot of their effectiveness. Backstab is more difficult to hit with when Basilisk Venom or Devourer Venom aren’t applied. If they are using the thief’s very lackluster CC abilities, then they are not using some ‘omgOPstealth’ build that people seem to think every thief has innately.

I’d also like to add that Hundred Blades is 9 hits.

Kephos.9675:

Ravnodaus.5130:

I hit a heavy target dummy for 18-19k with 100 blades on my warrior in sPvP. That is about 1.5 seconds or less because of quickness. It’d be even worse in WvW because of higher power/crit damage…. and lower toughness targets… mmm.

It isn’t just thief that can burst for really big numbers…

100 blades is very easy to evade and are 8 hit dont have any point of comparation with 1 unnespected hit impossible to evade

backstab…impossible to invade?

wat?

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Kephos.9675:

Ravnodaus.5130:

I hit a heavy target dummy for 18-19k with 100 blades on my warrior in sPvP. That is about 1.5 seconds or less because of quickness. It’d be even worse in WvW because of higher power/crit damage…. and lower toughness targets… mmm.

It isn’t just thief that can burst for really big numbers…

100 blades is very easy to evade and are 8 hit dont have any point of comparation with 1 unnespected hit impossible to evade

backstab…impossible to invade?

wat?

We are thief. We make you quake with such fear that you cannot react.

I love fighting people that stand still… Such easy pickings.

I love people who use berserker stance and take 50% more damage then get hit for 19k with backstab.

someone please remind me how can you hit backstab right after steal? afaik you need to be invisible to hit backstab and i dont know about steal giving invisibility.

kaboo.5194:

someone please remind me how can you hit backstab right after steal? afaik you need to be invisible to hit backstab and i dont know about steal giving invisibility.

charging cloak and dagger as you use steal.

Still doesn’t put you behind the target, unless the opponent lets them do it though.

I know i’m not helping the issue just fueling the fire.. BUT

This is my thief

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/14748/gw009.jpg

BlackRabbit.1259:

Although I agree entirely that thiefs need work, particulalrly HS spam and WvW rendering issues.

you will survive longer if you invest more in tough/vit. both through skillpoints and gear.

I am also a full exotic zerker glasscannon with 15k hp (not thief). But I can also melt stuff when left alone.

1/2 ltp
1/2 thief issues

case closed m’lud

I have to laugh at investing in vit/tough, even if you did that, i may not kill you in 3 secs but i’ll definitely kill you in 6 secs!

Ianervan.3415:

You were hit for 5,743 damage by Unknown using Steal.
You were hit for 13,782 damage by X using Backstab.

- RiP -

Hello, I am reporting this bug. This cannot possibly be a feature of once great franchise called Guild Wars. In Guild Wars Prophecies when frag Mesmer could kill (spike) someone in 6 seconds that was considered overpowered and it was nerfed.

I refuse to believe that a Thief using quickness and killing me in 1,5sec is a game feature, so I’m reporting this as a bug. I just refuse to believe that this is intentional design and game balance by Izzy and others.

If I am simply in a state of denial and this is working as intended please reply so I can make Thief as well. Why work on killing people with other classes when I can just press two buttons.

Thief isnt broken, this isnt a glitch, this is a legit build that worked exactly as intended.
Heres the behind the scenes with this build. before he jumped in, he stacked his might up to 15-20 stacks and used a venom, then he jumped to you and CnD’ed, then he activated Assassins Signet, moved behind you and backstabbed you. Then, after you were dead, he went and hid, waiting for one minute for the build to reset so he could pick a new target to do it all again.
This build is not broken, the balance is in the fact that while your looking for a target, unprepared for your attack, you can go down in a few hits and have no real protection your self other than stealth and run.

labotimy.2439:

Ianervan.3415:

I hope they nerf Thief to the ground.

this ^. cant wait to laugh at all the bads fotm’ing thief to reroll. bads gonna be bad. just because i know its coming, i have a thief and play it enough in spvp to know its completely faceroll, by far the easiest class to play period. 4 buttons pressed and a total of 1 second time in melee will result in most balanced/glass classes being at 20% hp or less, i guess according to thief players this is balanced /idiots.

I’m getting some really sad League of Legends baddie vibes over here.

Why do you want a class to be ruined and “nerfed into the ground”? Why do you want people to reroll who spent tons of time into their character?

I mean, are you dumb, or just simply a bad person?
Who says/wants crap like that?

Also FotM, really?
I decided to play Thief (and Necro) when the classes where announced, and play them since the first beta.

We want balance, you want a class you are to bad to play against being dumbed down, to a extend of not being playable anymore.

Now guess what ANet is trying to cater to?

“4 buttons pressed and a total of 1 second time in melee will result in most balanced/glass classes being at 20% hp or less”

And still there are other classes which burst harder, some even from range, with less buttons pressed and with a ton of more defensive while doing so than a Thief.
Soooo..!? No matter what the numbers say, Thief still OP, right?

A good damage is balanced with a very very poor HP plus no defensive (only elusives) skills. (Thief Case).
We don’t need nerfs, really.

I don’t wanna talk about ‘some other classes’.. but well, neverming.

Thiefs are like Mosquitos with Poison (?): If you get pierced by him, you’re almost dead/dead. But you can take him down with a finger, if you get it.

Daecollo.9578:

I love people who use berserker stance and take 50% more damage then get hit for 19k with backstab.

oh i have berseker stance on a mesmer? and 19k hit

why are only thiefs on SPVP? .. because they are OP

Kephos.9675:

Daecollo.9578:

I love people who use berserker stance and take 50% more damage then get hit for 19k with backstab.

oh i have berseker stance on a mesmer? and 19k hit

why are only thiefs on SPVP? .. because they are OP

You’re a Mesmer and you’re complaining that Thieves are OP? LOL.

Daecollo.9578:

If you “perma-blind” you cannot attack.
Boss mobs in PVE are immune to blind.
AoE Damage has long range, but takes forever to get to the target, easilly avoided unless your in close range.

If “cannot attack” is auto attacking, then yes, you’re correct. However if 4 members of your team have to worry less about surviving and can focus more about dealing damage often means that your team as a whole deals more damage.
I may to not have been clear about this but I was talking about dungeons, the AI hardly tries to dodge your attacks, and most dungeons are so narrow you’re rarely fighting from max range.

May be we can hear from devs about this issue?
BTW here is another one:

Sorry – I know a thief is weak when he takes damage, but if there is a full exo thief you have not even the time to react. This screen was taken in wvw and we all know that there is a game side problem. However as a necro I feel very sad about my class when I see that a thief can put out this amount of damage in just a few seconds…. I’m with 25k hp + 1600 thoughness and this just is a shame for my class. I love hard fights but I have not the time to react!? This is just sick. And guess what people start running around in bulk of thiefs..

Thieves die just as fast to other thieves, warrios, rangers and good Elementalists.

if thieves are to be nerfed, all the above will have to follow.

for thoughs who say HB is easely dodgabe, try dooing it wile knocked down TWICE back to back for 6sec, would love to see that!

don’t bother saying that the knockdowns are dodgeable because i know they are, but so is steal and C&D, GOOD players do it all the time. BAD players whine in forums…

Begur.3205:

May be we can hear from devs about this issue?
BTW here is another one:

8k from Cluster Bomb? Well this is new to me.

Volrath.1473:

Thieves die just as fast to other thieves, warrios, rangers and good Elementalists.

With the exception that good thieves just leave the fight if they’re going to die. Bad thieves go toe-to-toe until they get stomped.

Thieves never have to die unless they’re being zerged…and then only if they’ve blown all initiative, utilities, endurance, and are within 300-600m of a target with an immobilize skill.

Volrath.1473:

for thoughs who say HB is easely dodgabe, try dooing it wile knocked down TWICE back to back for 6sec, would love to see that!

How are you being knocked down twice by one target who is using the greatsword?

Why are you staying knocked down for 6 seconds? Don’t you have a stun-breaker?

Sounds like a bad player crying to me.

Volrath.1473:

don’t bother saying that the knockdowns are dodgeable because i know they are, but so is steal and C&D, GOOD players do it all the time. BAD players whine in forums…

Steal is a 900m teleport. The only way you can dodge that is by luck. You can’t just dodge when they get within range, that implies that you know they’re going to use it as soon as they’re within range. That’s not always the case.

Good thieves do not just auto-F1 as soon as they get within range. Bad thieves do.

Logs from WvW hold little merit, due to potential for gear inequality, level inequality, orb buffs, etc. To have any kind of a discussion you have to bring to table numbers from a controlled environment with reproducible results. That means knowing the damage stats of the attacker and defense stats of the target. Unfortunately, since anet has failed to add dueling, sPvP is the closest you can get to that. Fortunately however, anyone who wants to see thieves nerfed can create one and instantly have access to all the best gear in the game, and can therefore proceed to create their own proof (or can try to at least).

There are plenty of classes that can dish out plenty of damage in a few seconds, my warrior for example and this almost 12k Eviscerate hit (screenie is about 6 days old now but its not uncommon for me to crit 8-9k with it and as I don’t use assassins signet it is my second highest hit in spvp with 12.4k on a frenzied warrior with a backstab being my highest) and this is with a character with more base health then the thief, or the 100b warrior, or a Mind Wrack mesmer and the Haste PW thief build among more builds that can give off nice burst damage with opponents having little to no chance if they are unprepared (and the latter 2 are PBAoE! and can potentially down the unsuspecting fools next to the target).

And still there are other classes which burst harder, some even from range, with less buttons pressed and with a ton of more defensive while doing so than a Thief.

Yup, for instance a properly specced Engineer can put out burst at least as high as backstab thief, from 1200 range, with only two buttons. The only reason people don’t whine about it is because the build hasn’t had the Streisand effect that backstab has garnered.

bwillb.2165:

And still there are other classes which burst harder, some even from range, with less buttons pressed and with a ton of more defensive while doing so than a Thief.

Yup, for instance a properly specced Engineer can put out burst at least as high as backstab thief, from 1200 range, with only two buttons. The only reason people don’t whine about it is because the build hasn’t had the Streisand effect that backstab has garnered.

Or possibly because you’re not invisible while doing it and dodging something at 1200m is not hard.

Either one or the other.

Redscope.6215:

bwillb.2165:

And still there are other classes which burst harder, some even from range, with less buttons pressed and with a ton of more defensive while doing so than a Thief.

Yup, for instance a properly specced Engineer can put out burst at least as high as backstab thief, from 1200 range, with only two buttons. The only reason people don’t whine about it is because the build hasn’t had the Streisand effect that backstab has garnered.

Or possibly because you’re not invisible while doing it and dodging something at 1200m is not hard.

Either one or the other.

dodging a massive burst from 1200 meters behind you is a hell of a lot harder than dodging a backstab in melee range from something that’s already hit you once.

Yes, I’d like to report a bug. It appears that anyone who is killed by a thief within the game is being forced to start a new post whining about thieves and how they obviously are doing nothing wrong with the way they have set up their build or handled the engagement, it’s just that thieves are so overpowered.

These forums are just unreadable anymore.

Chuck Norris plays a thief.

People who die quickly to backstab is also susceptible to Churning Earth → Lightning Flash → Switch to lightning and RTL backdraft → switch to fire 4 5.

Redscope.6215:

Volrath.1473:

Thieves die just as fast to other thieves, warrios, rangers and good Elementalists.

With the exception that good thieves just leave the fight if they’re going to die. Bad thieves go toe-to-toe until they get stomped.

Thieves never have to die unless they’re being zerged…and then only if they’ve blown all initiative, utilities, endurance, and are within 300-600m of a target with an immobilize skill.

Volrath.1473:

for thoughs who say HB is easely dodgabe, try dooing it wile knocked down TWICE back to back for 6sec, would love to see that!

How are you being knocked down twice by one target who is using the greatsword?

Why are you staying knocked down for 6 seconds? Don’t you have a stun-breaker?

Sounds like a bad player crying to me.

Volrath.1473:

don’t bother saying that the knockdowns are dodgeable because i know they are, but so is steal and C&D, GOOD players do it all the time. BAD players whine in forums…

Steal is a 900m teleport. The only way you can dodge that is by luck. You can’t just dodge when they get within range, that implies that you know they’re going to use it as soon as they’re within range. That’s not always the case.

Good thieves do not just auto-F1 as soon as they get within range. Bad thieves do.

1st. I do use stun beaker but just like any other utility it has a cd.
2nd. I’m not complaining about the professions I mention just said they are as strong and can also kill glass canon builds is few seconds.

How do I, as a thief defend myself from such burst? If I see a thief or warrior comming at me I use signet of shadows to blind them (800 dist.) and I dodge towards them. If I don’t have the signet up I just dodge or use an evasive ability.
If I manage to avoid the cc → burst I win no doubt. If I miss and eat the bust I’m dead play. Simple and I do not play glass cannon btw I got some toughness and over 17k HP to PREVENT insta kills. Most ppl don’t care and run around with a lot of crit chance/dmg but are made of paper. Them come here whining blaming thieves for they’re own lack of survivability.

kaboo.5194:

someone please remind me how can you hit backstab right after steal? afaik you need to be invisible to hit backstab and i dont know about steal giving invisibility.

You can go into stealth from steal by taking 20pts into the Shadow Arts tree and take “Hidden Thief”, but then if you do this you’re not longer a glass cannon and the mystical 15k Omg I kill you in 1 hit back stab is just a dream.

Incurafy.6329:

Kephos.9675:

Daecollo.9578:

I love people who use berserker stance and take 50% more damage then get hit for 19k with backstab.

oh i have berseker stance on a mesmer? and 19k hit

why are only thiefs on SPVP? .. because they are OP

You’re a Mesmer and you’re complaining that Thieves are OP? LOL.

I was hit for 17k by backstab, I have 18k health. He did it stealthed and from 900 away, explain how this is legit? 99% of my health in 3 keystrokes on a keyboard which can all be queued simultaneously? How is this legit?

It isnt, and the only reason people are backing up backstab’s ridiculous crits is because they are afraid of losing their easy-win-thief. You’ve already lost.

How many of you started out as a thief and how many of you changed over to a thief after you got rofl stomped by one? You can lie and say you started as a thief, but you know who you are.

@Krathalos.3461

Wait you mean all the warrior CC that you could see coming? and dodge pretty easily?