Guild Wars 2

This profession…is now worthless in pvp. It was always inferior in pve, which we all accepted because it was good at pvp. Now the only thing thief is good for is a “scout” for wvw because it can run fast and escape from everything else that can kill it easily. Which is everything else.

Thief…has no damage anymore. a single 3-6k shot every 4-5 seconds does not cut it when your enemies all have 15-25k hp on average, more armor than you, and are hitting you all the time while you wait to deal your next 3-6k shot. And when they hit you for more than that with 1-skill spam over the time it takes for you to land yours…and when you have 11-16k hp yourself and are glass NO MATTER WHAT you do…

This profession was built for DAMAGE, not surviving, not hp. Well, we still have NO surviving and no hp, but now we also have no damage. Mug crit nerf is an example of the “chipping away” at thief damage that has been happening forever. A few thousand here, a few thousand there…and pretty soon you end up with a worthless class that doesn’t kill anything before it gets killed.

Anet…I have loyally played thief because it is a fun, enjoyable class. Because the mechanics are fun. But I have to put mine away for now just because you have nerfed it into uselessness.

It is a sad day for me. My favorite class. Every time a new patch comes along I hope and pray they…make thief viable again for pvp. As I said before, it’s already pretty slow for pve compared to higher damage or better aoe profs like warrior/ele/etc…but now it’s also inferior for burst damage to many classes that have much more hp/survivability than thief ever had or was designed to have.

Stop driving towards balance and ending up making all the professions level and equal and boring in every way. Thief had damage, ranger has balance and good ranged attack and pets, ele has aoe and damage and survivability, war has massive damage, guard has defense and retal and great support abilities, necro has aoe and lots of survivability, mes has great burst, good skill survivability and good sustained damage…but thief doesn’t have any of these things anymore. Thief never had survivability except through invis, its only remaining ace up the sleeve that hasn’t been totally destroyed (though they tried last patch, too many people realized it was an error). However, invis isn’t helpful for killing if you don’t have damage to accompany it…so all a thief can do is run away from everyone. Limited aoe, mostly single-target-focused skills, you would think it is designed for 1v1…but it isn’t any good at 1v1 anymore.

Some might disagree, but many/most will agree that thief needs that “imbalance” of high damage in order to balance it again.

Don’t do a diablo3. Don’t do a one-world new world order thing where everyone is blended and similar. Don’t make everything homogenous. Don’t give thief more hp or survivability, keep it delicate and glassy. That’s the nature of the profession. Keep the differences and strengths (and weaknesses) to each class that makes them all uniquely viable. Give thief their damage back.

If you listen to constant complaints from people saying this or that is OP, then what results is a bunch of nerfing that ends up making everyone equally useless. Rather, balance that with making things STRONGER. Too many nerfs = bunch of nerf bats. Put some metal spikes back in them again.

You’re projecting a lot of what you think thief should be onto the profession as a whole. There’s nothing wrong with wanting your playstyle to remain viable, but the devs shouldn’t min/max the profession towards whatever role you want to fill. Like most GW2 professions there are many ways to play a thief and you’re not doing yourself any favors by proclaiming “as a glassy damage dealer” to be the only way.

You only do 6K damage every 4 seconds? How did you kill anything before the Mug Nerf?! Your numbers are off a little.

Still, I agree this “Balance” thing is out of hand. And Revealed needs to be 3 seconds everywhere. It was only nerfed Because of culling which is gone.

I LOL when a thief tries to kill me in PvP. I almost feel bad for them at this point.

I just rerolled a warrior as soon as I spotted nerf train in the distance. Still not regretting it. Almost have a guardian to lv 80 and have gold in the pot for his exotics.

Don’t use a glass cannon, and the thief is extremely viable. If you want to play it as before the patches; pressing the C&N button, followed by a steal and backstab to win, then the thief will be extremely lackluster. The most powerful traits are tied into defense and vitality, giving us almost infinite initiative and a massive amount of health regeneration. The new changes to the sword allow us to rip boons off the strongest 1v1 characters, the Guardian, Mesmer and Elementalist. You just need to adapt, I actually feel much stronger with the latest patch due to the boon removal we can perform now.

Actually, I run a very unorthodox build and rarely die in sPvP and tPvP. The secret is learning to conserve your moves and use them at the right moment while using your autoattack to keep up the pressure and making sure to use weapons swapping to your advantage. I’ve played and done well with every thief build (albeit I haven’t tried s/d with the new ‘buff’, but I’d rather not jump on the bandwagon and it’s easy enough to counter), so saying that the class is obsolete is a far cry. Just today I was thanked by several ransoms that decided to join our dueling server for some great fights and out of the 3 consecutive hours of dueling, was only downed once. I’ve also found that playing and heavily researching the other classes helps counter them yourself, so to me this seems like a huge misunderstanding of not only your class but every other class as well.

Yup thief seems fine to me – oddly I appear to be doing better since the patch but that may be me getting used to switching to D/P from S/P. Akin to Viking I don’t die very often in sPvP, I run D/P and S/B with SR, Black powder,ShadowStep and Hide In Shadows which is pretty defensive. The amount of damage pumped out from SB is often overlooked.

Pick your targets better OP.

^^ Good point – some players (among all classes) have a notion you should kind of stand there and duke it out. Thieves have stealth so they can come out of no-where when not expected. At least that’s how I supposed they’re supposed to do.

1. My build has 21k hp in sPvP, and 30/30/0/10/0. If you have HP that low, it’s cause you built it that way.

2. Did you seriously claim thief is weak compared to warrior?

3. This “scout” idea is still very useful in sPvP for ninjaing points, or at least forcing players to stay at a point less the thief steal it from under your noses.

Ok. Calm down. Mug was nerfed. It went from full damage to part damage part heal.

Take a breath. Now looks at the tools before you. S/D is crazy fun. You have a backup heal that does damage AND shadowsteps you to your enemy. With basilisk and the sword stealth attack you can lock someone down for quite a while.

Learn, adapt, succeed….or just reroll because if you don’t see the potential of the new tools you really shouldn’t be a thief.

What would they need to change to get better damage? They took the massive mug damage and gave us 3s revealed back! People in WvW are getting rocked by thieves again. (At least for me) The -1s was huge! I basically get to backstab→auto attack and once I’m done with 1 auto attack rotation pre cast C&D and back stab again. Its quite powerful.

Stop asking them to mess with our damage. I understand “insta gib” is fun and were a thief class…hit hard run away blah blah. Were in a very good place right now. Personally I feel were back to owning WvW roaming. I have not been convincing beat yet.

Zikory.6871:

What would they need to change to get better damage? They took the massive mug damage and gave us 3s revealed back! People in WvW are getting rocked by thieves again. (At least for me) The -1s was huge! I basically get to backstab->auto attack and once I’m done with 1 auto attack rotation pre cast C&D and back stab again. Its quite powerful.

Stop asking them to mess with our damage. I understand “insta gib” is fun and were a thief claskitten hard run away blah blah. Were in a very good place right now. Personally I feel were back to owning WvW roaming. I have not been convincing beat yet.

dude noone cares about wvw… thieves situation in pvp is just so hopeless right now.
u cant do same kitten in pvp like wvw.

Nahan.5043:

Zikory.6871:

What would they need to change to get better damage? They took the massive mug damage and gave us 3s revealed back! People in WvW are getting rocked by thieves again. (At least for me) The -1s was huge! I basically get to backstab->auto attack and once I’m done with 1 auto attack rotation pre cast C&D and back stab again. Its quite powerful.

Stop asking them to mess with our damage. I understand “insta gib” is fun and were a thief claskitten hard run away blah blah. Were in a very good place right now. Personally I feel were back to owning WvW roaming. I have not been convincing beat yet.

dude noone cares about wvw… thieves situation in pvp is just so hopeless right now.
u cant do same kitten in pvp like wvw.

Meh, I always forget WvW isn’t considered PvP. Well as far as the skill split. Well my point on WvW still stands, were in a good place right now imo. Good luck on trying to get sPvP balanced for thieves.

thief is fun to play. very uncompetitive tho. id like to see anyone average 6k dmg in 4 secs (basically 1 backstabe every 7-8 seconds) and not class cannon…..balanced as u say is so viable….plz show it. plz post a video of spvp if u do. also u may notice all thief wvw videos are not zerg/large group play?……wonder why that is. yishis? useless in zerg play…literally…fun tho. wild bill….more survival in zerg/group play but still 1 target at a time.

Travlane.5948:

thief is fun to play. very uncompetitive tho. id like to see anyone average 6k dmg in 4 secs (basically 1 backstabe every 7-8 seconds) and not class cannon…..balanced as u say is so viable….plz show it. plz post a video of spvp if u do. also u may notice all thief wvw videos are not zerg/large group play?……wonder why that is. yishis? useless in zerg play…literally…fun tho. wild bill….more survival in zerg/group play but still 1 target at a time.

I wouldn’t say useless in zergs but yes, much less useful then other classes. Venom share is quite nice for group play and having a thief being a cluster bomb dispensary is also very helpful. But you are right, most thieves will not favor zerg play over small groups fights as they are very limited to what the can bring to the zerg. I wouldn’t call this a issue though. Thieves have their place in WvW.

Back to the sPvP discussion, how do you think the revealed at 4s effects the thief? Do you think it should have been changed back to 3s as well? personally I think its kitten to split that skill like that, its going to be very weird to jump between game modes.

Meridian.8730:

Stop driving towards balance and ending up making all the professions level and equal

I almost spit out my coffee when I read this line.

So basically what you are saying is that it was fun being overpowered, but now that you are closer to balanced that its not fun for you anymore? seriously?

btw, the ability to turn invisible and reset fights is what I would consider survivability.

Do I really need to post another video of a thief just strolling along next to a zerg of enemies because he gets to be invisible?

If you want a serious PVP experience, you’re playing the wrong game.

Why people use WvW as a measure of PVP balance is beyond me. It’s really ridiculous. Armor, level, number of skill points achieved, and then add seige weapons on that? That’s not balanceable.

Fritz.5026:

Meridian.8730:

Stop driving towards balance and ending up making all the professions level and equal

I almost spit out my coffee when I read this line.

So basically what you are saying is that it was fun being overpowered, but now that you are closer to balanced that its not fun for you anymore? seriously?

btw, the ability to turn invisible and reset fights is what I would consider survivability.

Do I really need to post another video of a thief just strolling along next to a zerg of enemies because he gets to be invisible?

Whether you consider the profession more balanced now is a matter of opinion, but I think it’s important to understand what’s meant by survivability.

Is the profession good at avoiding damage to run away? Yes, they’re one of the best for escaping a zerg for example. Do they have good staying power while trying to kill someone? No, not really. They can stealth and not recieve much damage as you can’t target them, but you if they’re trying to kill someone then they’re out of stealth and within range of their opponents attacks with few ways to mitigate incoming damage.

A guardian wouldn’t last as long following a zerg of people, but I’d still prefer them tanking than a thief.

Meridian.8730:

a single 3-6k shot every 4-5 seconds does not cut it

….

I’m speechless.

bhagwad.4281:

Meridian.8730:

a single 3-6k shot every 4-5 seconds does not cut it

….

I’m speechless.

Lolllll….

I run almost purely bunker/balance specs, which, for me, means 0/0/X/X/X. I’ve hit for far less than this before. I’m the type that will take an advantage at the earliest opportunity and twist it and bend it to the point that my opponent rips in half. That doesn’t mean running heavy damage, typically, but it lets me win.

I pre planed a new build, thought Id go 30 in crit and have hidden killer work with cnd.
That build lasted 3 rounds in spvp , and Im using the same spec I’ve had for months. Rangers seem really weak still and warriors.

I did multiple 3v1s and even stomped a few in 1v8 today. I also soloed a tower. I died twice or once (can’t remember) during the whole day…
Just wondering how many other classes can pull off kitten like that.

Of course my opponents weren’t excellent, but still. I have so much more experience on my mesmer and could never even imagine doing the same on it.

Thief may be crap in spvp, but in WvW it’s completly broken. The one and only reason thief sucks in spvp is the artificial nerf against it: you can’t capture points while you are in stealth.

Master of Timespace.2548:

It’s amazing how many bad players play this game. If op was a ranger, he would be the type that walks backwards while shooting with autoattack…
Seriously, I did multiple 3v1s and even stomped a few in 1v8 today. I also soloed a tower. I died twice or once (can’t remember) during the whole day…
Just wondering how many other classes can pull off kitten like that.

Of course my opponents weren’t excellent, but still…

Can you give me the play by play on how you solo’d a tower? Sounds awesome!

Zikory.6871:

Master of Timespace.2548:

It’s amazing how many bad players play this game. If op was a ranger, he would be the type that walks backwards while shooting with autoattack…
Seriously, I did multiple 3v1s and even stomped a few in 1v8 today. I also soloed a tower. I died twice or once (can’t remember) during the whole day…
Just wondering how many other classes can pull off kitten like that.

Of course my opponents weren’t excellent, but still…

Can you give me the play by play on how you solo’d a tower? Sounds awesome!

Well first of all, you must somehow get into the tower. That’s the easy part, just walk in when the door is open.
After that you have to try to hide. This is done by chaining c&d on walls, npcs, gates or whatever you can find, or alternatively by the d/p combo. It is possible that some idiots will find and start to hunt you (they can be suprisingly dedicated..,). Unless you can defeat them, its best just trying to hide and make it appear as if you left the tower. In bigger places such as in keeps or in SM, you can also try to separate them and pick them one by one… It’s really quite funny when they discover the thief has taken down one of them, the hunters :P.
Once the tower is empty, you must defeat the npcs. Personally I run a condition thief so this is done by simply luring one or two out, defeating those by spamming caltrops and sneak attack, and then finally moving to take out the lord. Quite simple, not any differend from fighting a dungeon boss.

ps. I think youtube has several videos on thiefs soloing towers. Those can contain some valuable tricks.

Mindtrick.5190:

I pre planed a new build, thought Id go 30 in crit and have hidden killer work with cnd.
That build lasted 3 rounds in spvp , and Im using the same spec I’ve had for months. Rangers seem really weak still and warriors.

you know why I never break stun right the way, after you opened on me?
I let you waste all your ini to get me down to 1/3, then you had no other option but dropping refuge because it would only take me 1/2 second to recover back to 90%.

Deathblossom does not work, you are giving up all your defense for that bit of damage that wasn’t enough to finish an opponent.

Try some other builds / weapon setups.

p.s your norn is too big, too ez to bs.

Honestly , thieves in WvW are very OP at roaming . My two biggest nightmares are solid mesmer or thief players .

lol, this dudes crying made me laugh. He can’t just spam 2 and down someone!? what a shame! lol, I just recently have been taking my thief into sPvP to do some tournies with friends and let me tell you, they are far from useless rofl.

I was in charge of 2 points on the map, our bunker ele held the alter and i would roam between the alter and temple, while the other 3 duked it out at the gate. lol. I had to do some 2v1’s against 2 guards. I’ve had to fight a scepter/dagger dps ele and dps warrior. Just because you dont 1 bang people every 45s anymore doesnt mean the class is broken. lol.

I love this new sword update aswell, in wvw, i’m seeing all these idiot thieves spamming 3 to remove boons rofl.

Just an FYI, its not even worth using sword 3, unless another thief is dagger storming, or necro is in lich form, etc. when they is multiple boons, just ignore it lol. you’re wasting initiative :P

But to help this original poster out on his thief, just run 30/30/0/0/10 and keep spamming 2, when you get tired of it, reroll.

I love these noobs, they are the reason people are overly aggressive against thieves lol. so it gives me free loots in wvw. haha. keep it up babe

Zikory.6871:

Travlane.5948:

thief is fun to play. very uncompetitive tho. id like to see anyone average 6k dmg in 4 secs (basically 1 backstabe every 7-8 seconds) and not class cannon…..balanced as u say is so viable….plz show it. plz post a video of spvp if u do. also u may notice all thief wvw videos are not zerg/large group play?……wonder why that is. yishis? useless in zerg play…literally…fun tho. wild bill….more survival in zerg/group play but still 1 target at a time.

I wouldn’t say useless in zergs but yes, much less useful then other classes. Venom share is quite nice for group play and having a thief being a cluster bomb dispensary is also very helpful. But you are right, most thieves will not favor zerg play over small groups fights as they are very limited to what the can bring to the zerg. I wouldn’t call this a issue though. Thieves have their place in WvW.

Back to the sPvP discussion, how do you think the revealed at 4s effects the thief? Do you think it should have been changed back to 3s as well? personally I think its kitten to split that skill like that, its going to be very weird to jump between game modes.

should b 3sec in eachIMO. it allowed p/d to come back tho in wvw. i like that bc of venom share and bleed build. but other than venom share…the only way a thief can support its server is to go in groups of 1/2 and cap camps so it wont waste the zerg’s time. other than that not much….especially since sb was nerfed….i know maybe it was never supposed to be heat seeking…..well whatever…was it supposedto hit weak as guardians…..or be 1 sec each auto rather than stated .25…..???? if they made it faster it wouldnt be a problem…… 3 shots per second is about .25 + activation time. that would make up for the low dmg AND the nerf on heat seeking. :/ thievees just keep getting hit. im remastering my guardian i have put away.

Remix.2086:

lol, this dudes crying made me laugh. He can’t just spam 2 and down someone!? what a shame! lol, I just recently have been taking my thief into sPvP to do some tournies with friends and let me tell you, they are far from useless rofl.

I was in charge of 2 points on the map, our bunker ele held the alter and i would roam between the alter and temple, while the other 3 duked it out at the gate. lol. I had to do some 2v1’s against 2 guards. I’ve had to fight a scepter/dagger dps ele and dps warrior. Just because you dont 1 bang people every 45s anymore doesnt mean the class is broken. lol.

I love this new sword update aswell, in wvw, i’m seeing all these idiot thieves spamming 3 to remove boons rofl.

Just an FYI, its not even worth using sword 3, unless another thief is dagger storming, or necro is in lich form, etc. when they is multiple boons, just ignore it lol. you’re wasting initiative :P

But to help this original poster out on his thief, just run 30/30/0/0/10 and keep spamming 2, when you get tired of it, reroll.

I love these noobs, they are the reason people are overly aggressive against thieves lol. so it gives me free loots in wvw. haha. keep it up babe

u have some good points and some bad ones. is a thief usless? no…..that is correct…..is it the biggest dmg taker? yep….is it in the top2 dmg outputs? no. so why pick a thief over a bunker or like a dps warrior or dps mesmer? there is no reason…..so are they useless? no…are they as usefull? heck no. so i guess ur talking technicality there right? you can HS anyone to death…thats redic….oh u mean unless somebody else got them under half and u have 15 intiative avail? then yeah u can.. prolly qualify that. 3 is a waste of intiative? it can give health…protecvtion and dmg for 4 initiative plus like just as much as a backstab on the 2nd strike…..the tactical strike is HORRIBLE dmg. so why was CND for 5 just to set up a sub par attack when for 4 initiative u get double the dmg and steal boons and get an evade? hardly a waste. easily the best skill thieves have right now next to backstab. good thieves RARELY use HS anymore.