Guild Wars 2

evilapprentice.6379:

Karolis.4261:

evilapprentice.6379:

godofcows.2451:

how about we all just wait first and react afterwards when details have been given?

I’m worried by how many posts I had to scroll through until someone said this.

Cause we are panicking! I myself dont even know the source of crid damage nerf.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Balance-Developer-Livestream-on-Friday-at-2pm-PST/first#post3501152

There is no source for “Crit damage nerf” – they are exploring “Critical Damage Changes” which could mean anything.

Well… crit damage changes in context of reducing berserker builds domination in pve means crit damage nerf.

Maugetarr.6823:

evilapprentice.6379:

godofcows.2451:

how about we all just wait first and react afterwards when details have been given?

I’m worried by how many posts I had to scroll through until someone said this.

Well, it could go one of two ways:

Dev’s don’t think crit damage is up to par with conditions, thus should be buffed

Dev’s think crit damage exceeds condition based damage and should be nerfed in some form.

Speculation and discussion is at least interesting while we wait.

While I agree speculation and discussion can be interesting, that’s not what some people are doing. They’re pre-kittening about how kittened their class will be when they nerf critical damage – just making wild assumptions.

evilapprentice.6379:

I’m worried by how many posts I had to scroll through until someone said this.

This is usually when I would say “you must be new here”, but I know that you aren’t.

Interceptor.2653:

evilapprentice.6379:

I’m worried by how many posts I had to scroll through until someone said this.

This is usually when I would say “you must be new here”, but I know that you aren’t.

Worried, Not surprised.

evilapprentice.6379:

Maugetarr.6823:

evilapprentice.6379:

godofcows.2451:

how about we all just wait first and react afterwards when details have been given?

I’m worried by how many posts I had to scroll through until someone said this.

Well, it could go one of two ways:

Dev’s don’t think crit damage is up to par with conditions, thus should be buffed

Dev’s think crit damage exceeds condition based damage and should be nerfed in some form.

Speculation and discussion is at least interesting while we wait.

While I agree speculation and discussion can be interesting, that’s not what some people are doing. They’re pre-kittening about how kittened their class will be when they nerf critical damage – just making wild assumptions.

I edited after you responded, so I’ll just respond here. I think a lot of people think that a buff to crit based damage is unlikely. I’m not going to take a sky is falling attitude toward it yet until we hear some more specifics.

I am interested in hearing some high-level balance direction roadmap discussion since I think the changes to vigor were the opposite way they should have gone with thieves during the last patch. Hearing their future goals and thought process will be….. intriguing.

Edit: Lately the balance team seems to be trying to balance out the highs and lows to an easier-to-work -with average.

Maugetarr.6823:

evilapprentice.6379:

Maugetarr.6823:

evilapprentice.6379:

godofcows.2451:

how about we all just wait first and react afterwards when details have been given?

I’m worried by how many posts I had to scroll through until someone said this.

Well, it could go one of two ways:

Dev’s don’t think crit damage is up to par with conditions, thus should be buffed

Dev’s think crit damage exceeds condition based damage and should be nerfed in some form.

Speculation and discussion is at least interesting while we wait.

While I agree speculation and discussion can be interesting, that’s not what some people are doing. They’re pre-kittening about how kittened their class will be when they nerf critical damage – just making wild assumptions.

I edited after you responded, so I’ll just respond here. I think a lot of people think that a buff to crit based damage is unlikely. I’m not going to take a sky is falling attitude toward it yet until we hear some more specifics.

I am interested in hearing some high-level balance direction roadmap discussion since I think the changes to vigor were the opposite way they should have gone with thieves during the last patch. Hearing their future goals and thought process will be….. intriguing.

Well when they say that there will be changes in crit damage and we have topic that says that they want to stop berserker builds domination in pve… in my eyes that just screams – CRIT DAMAGE NURF! So please ppl, start panicking!

Karolis.4261:

Maugetarr.6823:

evilapprentice.6379:

Maugetarr.6823:

evilapprentice.6379:

godofcows.2451:

how about we all just wait first and react afterwards when details have been given?

I’m worried by how many posts I had to scroll through until someone said this.

Well, it could go one of two ways:

Dev’s don’t think crit damage is up to par with conditions, thus should be buffed

Dev’s think crit damage exceeds condition based damage and should be nerfed in some form.

Speculation and discussion is at least interesting while we wait.

While I agree speculation and discussion can be interesting, that’s not what some people are doing. They’re pre-kittening about how kittened their class will be when they nerf critical damage – just making wild assumptions.

I edited after you responded, so I’ll just respond here. I think a lot of people think that a buff to crit based damage is unlikely. I’m not going to take a sky is falling attitude toward it yet until we hear some more specifics.

I am interested in hearing some high-level balance direction roadmap discussion since I think the changes to vigor were the opposite way they should have gone with thieves during the last patch. Hearing their future goals and thought process will be….. intriguing.

Well when they say that there will be changes in crit damage and we have topic that says that they want to stop berserker builds domination in pve… in my eyes that just screams – CRIT DAMAGE NURF! So please ppl, start panicking!

Y panick. Zerk dominancne IS disgusting.

Excalibur.9748:

Karolis.4261:

Maugetarr.6823:

evilapprentice.6379:

Maugetarr.6823:

evilapprentice.6379:

godofcows.2451:

how about we all just wait first and react afterwards when details have been given?

I’m worried by how many posts I had to scroll through until someone said this.

Well, it could go one of two ways:

Dev’s don’t think crit damage is up to par with conditions, thus should be buffed

Dev’s think crit damage exceeds condition based damage and should be nerfed in some form.

Speculation and discussion is at least interesting while we wait.

While I agree speculation and discussion can be interesting, that’s not what some people are doing. They’re pre-kittening about how kittened their class will be when they nerf critical damage – just making wild assumptions.

I edited after you responded, so I’ll just respond here. I think a lot of people think that a buff to crit based damage is unlikely. I’m not going to take a sky is falling attitude toward it yet until we hear some more specifics.

I am interested in hearing some high-level balance direction roadmap discussion since I think the changes to vigor were the opposite way they should have gone with thieves during the last patch. Hearing their future goals and thought process will be….. intriguing.

Well when they say that there will be changes in crit damage and we have topic that says that they want to stop berserker builds domination in pve… in my eyes that just screams – CRIT DAMAGE NURF! So please ppl, start panicking!

Y panick. Zerk dominancne IS disgusting.

It is ! But crit damage must stay ! Or they could simply give bosses/mobs crit chance/damage ressists just like they did in aion, just aion went further with it and introduced it to pvp allso

Maugetarr.6823:

I am interested in hearing some high-level balance direction roadmap discussion since I think the changes to vigor were the opposite way they should have gone with thieves during the last patch. Hearing their future goals and thought process will be….. intriguing.

Those two things are related, honestly. Active defenses are the core of the “problem” with zerker dominance, and high Vigor access just makes that worse.

Interceptor.2653:

Maugetarr.6823:

I am interested in hearing some high-level balance direction roadmap discussion since I think the changes to vigor were the opposite way they should have gone with thieves during the last patch. Hearing their future goals and thought process will be….. intriguing.

Those two things are related, honestly. Active defenses are the core of the “problem” with zerker dominance, and high Vigor access just makes that worse.

Sort of, but it’s not like we have high access to semi-active defenses other than dodging, such as aegis, protection, regen, and blocks. The other classes that are capable of easy perma-vigor do have access to those in addition to their vigor. That was my disagreement with the direction we are heading. Blind is alright, but unless they stand in your blind field (yes I know it happens and we get complaints about it) blind affects one hit and only works 10% on bosses.

Excalibur.9748:

even tho it’s gonna be thief nerf this is good change still. ANET said we can play however we want, but zerk stat it too much in PvE. All stat combinations need to be good, that will make the game more fun since there will be more than one viable stat combination.

In a PvE context, reducing zerk stats will mean absolutely nothing. It doesn’t matter what you do to gear, organised groups are going to run the optimal gearset, whatever it may be, be it Rampager, Valkyrie or whatever post-patch, and the whining from people who get rejected from those elitist groups will continue as strong as ever. Why? Because PvE is too easy. Enemies don’t produce the kind of threat that warrant proper strategy – you just burn them down with active defenses to back you up. They hit so hard that Toughness is irrelevant, Reflects are overpowered beyond imagination and dodging is the ultimate mitigation. HP and Armor don’t even need consideration.

There needs to be a GIGANTIC overhaul to produce intelligent AI that counteracts physical stacking, Might stacking and ramps up condition threat, and doesn’t fall for cheap line-of-sight tricks. Only if enemy encounters actually become strategic can proper balance and not just “max DPS no matter what the set” be met.

Unfortunately, that would be far too much work for Anet.

Personally, I’m keeping my Berserker Ascended set no matter what. It will have to logically be the best DPS even if they reduce it a little, and that’s all that matters when PvE is this faceroll.

The translation to WvW, on other hand, IS a cause for concern. Conditions are already ridiculous over there, and reducing crit effectiveness will just amplify the problem. It’s not like Anet ever consider separating PvE and WvW anyway.

@Auesis

I see your point but I still consider this as progress in the right direction.

Like I said, full zerk will most likely still be the best/only way to go, and so will be a thief nerf, but the gap will likely be smaller which is good and will encourage diversity more in PUGs.

ANET can continually make baby steps until zerk is not the only way to go. This can be the first one.

And after I just finished getting zerker gear for my S/P thief..devs decide they want to change crit dmg…

Kande.1930:

And after I just finished getting zerker gear for my S/P thief..devs decide they want to change crit dmg…

It’s okay, maybe in a few months they will nerf something again and crit dmg will become viable again. (Or along the same lines…) (Yes, we don’t know that it’s a nerf yet…)

Auesis.7301:

Excalibur.9748:

even tho it’s gonna be thief nerf this is good change still. ANET said we can play however we want, but zerk stat it too much in PvE. All stat combinations need to be good, that will make the game more fun since there will be more than one viable stat combination.

In a PvE context, reducing zerk stats will mean absolutely nothing. It doesn’t matter what you do to gear, organised groups are going to run the optimal gearset, whatever it may be, be it Rampager, Valkyrie or whatever post-patch, and the whining from people who get rejected from those elitist groups will continue as strong as ever. Why? Because PvE is too easy. Enemies don’t produce the kind of threat that warrant proper strategy – you just burn them down with active defenses to back you up. They hit so hard that Toughness is irrelevant, Reflects are overpowered beyond imagination and dodging is the ultimate mitigation. HP and Armor don’t even need consideration.

There needs to be a GIGANTIC overhaul to produce intelligent AI that counteracts physical stacking, Might stacking and ramps up condition threat, and doesn’t fall for cheap line-of-sight tricks. Only if enemy encounters actually become strategic can proper balance and not just “max DPS no matter what the set” be met.

Unfortunately, that would be far too much work for Anet.

Personally, I’m keeping my Berserker Ascended set no matter what. It will have to logically be the best DPS even if they reduce it a little, and that’s all that matters when PvE is this faceroll.

The translation to WvW, on other hand, IS a cause for concern. Conditions are already ridiculous over there, and reducing crit effectiveness will just amplify the problem. It’s not like Anet ever consider separating PvE and WvW anyway.

I don’t think that change to enemy AI would be as difficult as you think it is. Look at the practice bots for PvP. They dodge (even when immobilized with what seems like unlimited endurance…..) the big hits and channeled attacks. They even do a pretty decent dodge vs. CnD. Imagine instead of huge health pools and high armor in high level fractals if your enemies just dodged the groups big attacks better and didn’t stand in 100b. They’d have to fix the dodge while immobilized thing, but then your team would need competent composition like necros for weakness and hammer wars for group stuns. If they combined those with some of the queen’s champs and gauntlet fighters type of abilities (not the tower of nightmare guys…. they were boring), they could make some really fun end game content with more variables to scale such as endurance pool/regeneration.

When I see the words “balancing patch” from anet I already know what it is, nerf ele/thief… look up balancing patch in anet’s dictionary and that is the literal meaning…

evilapprentice.6379:

Karolis.4261:

evilapprentice.6379:

godofcows.2451:

how about we all just wait first and react afterwards when details have been given?

I’m worried by how many posts I had to scroll through until someone said this.

Cause we are panicking! I myself dont even know the source of crid damage nerf.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Balance-Developer-Livestream-on-Friday-at-2pm-PST/first#post3501152

There is no source for “Crit damage nerf” – they are exploring “Critical Damage Changes” which could mean anything.

not even 1 huge change like this has ever been a buff/equal move. it will almost assuredly be a nerf. especially since it affects thief the most!

this wont affect me much since i run condition damage… if they where to nerf thief physical ill just run this in dungeon instead and start going pew pew on killing the mobs.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY6YnkEVaaoJumwfaChThFCVePIrxys0UQT3EA-jQCB4iDimCAkgAmkOQZqFRjtKsIasaZER16lYmbFRrWKAIWWB-e

IMHO I think they wont change it much. Given the heavy financial investment in ascended gear and weapons if they nerf it too much they are in for the type of kitten storm that only comes once in a while. They have nerfed many builds but in all honestly PvE meta has stayed Zerker so no one complained heavily. If they nerf it into the ground the money spent on the gear grind they promised us would not be in this game might lead to some legit quit threads.

The way I see it given the commendation, gold, fractal infusions, etc there is only so much they can do with out doing more harm then good.

If they nerf it into the ground the money spent on the gear grind they promised us would not be in this game might lead to some legit quit threads.

They deleted my legit quit thread in like 30 minutes. Looks like they’re pretty efficient when it comes to damage control.

In case , even if there are legit quit threads, they’ll be deleted…

TheGuy.3568:

IMHO I think they wont change it much. Given the heavy financial investment in ascended gear and weapons if they nerf it too much they are in for the type of kitten storm that only comes once in a while. They have nerfed many builds but in all honestly PvE meta has stayed Zerker so no one complained heavily. If they nerf it into the ground the money spent on the gear grind they promised us would not be in this game might lead to some legit quit threads.

The way I see it given the commendation, gold, fractal infusions, etc there is only so much they can do with out doing more harm then good.

This is fair, but we’ve been here before, remember: gear with magic find. ANet has it within their power to allow people to re-stat their Ascended gear to adjust to changes made to something like crit damage.

Excalibur.9748:

They deleted my legit quit thread in like 30 minutes. Looks like they’re pretty efficient when it comes to damage control.

Yeah, they are pretty good at deleting things that are against the rules that you need to agree to in order to post here. That’s partially because there are people like me who take advantage of the easy reporting tool that they provide.

Interceptor.2653:

Excalibur.9748:

They deleted my legit quit thread in like 30 minutes. Looks like they’re pretty efficient when it comes to damage control.

Yeah, they are pretty good at deleting things that are against the rules that you need to agree to in order to post here. That’s partially because there are people like me who take advantage of the easy reporting tool that they provide.

Snitch

Interceptor.2653:

Excalibur.9748:

They deleted my legit quit thread in like 30 minutes. Looks like they’re pretty efficient when it comes to damage control.

Yeah, they are pretty good at deleting things that are against the rules that you need to agree to in order to post here. That’s partially because there are people like me who take advantage of the easy reporting tool that they provide.

WTH dude, why would you report it, I just wanna know how many thieves quit after the Dec.10 path, and why. It’s a tally for informational purpose only.

PS noone likes a snitch

Excalibur.9748:

WTH dude, why would you report it, I just wanna know how many thieves quit after the Dec.10 path, and why. It’s a tally for informational purpose only.

I didn’t report your thread. I clicked on it, and thought it was sad that people who stopped playing would still come here, but that’s about it.

Excalibur.9748:

Interceptor.2653:

Excalibur.9748:

They deleted my legit quit thread in like 30 minutes. Looks like they’re pretty efficient when it comes to damage control.

Yeah, they are pretty good at deleting things that are against the rules that you need to agree to in order to post here. That’s partially because there are people like me who take advantage of the easy reporting tool that they provide.

WTH dude, why would you report it, I just wanna know how many thieves quit after the Dec.10 path, and why. It’s a tally for informational purpose only.

PS noone likes a snitch

He must have snitched on Tupac…

OMG

(btw, it’s a joke, laugh when you read it… Hey it’s the internet, gotta make these disclaimers(For the general forum readers… not anyone specific))

In my opinion a crit damage nerf would be the best thing that happened to this game since release. Of course I would cut down on the duration of several conditions at the same time.

Is this change going to happen for all areas or is it just a PvE/WvW change? Does anybody know?

Interceptor.2653:

TheGuy.3568:

IMHO I think they wont change it much. Given the heavy financial investment in ascended gear and weapons if they nerf it too much they are in for the type of kitten storm that only comes once in a while. They have nerfed many builds but in all honestly PvE meta has stayed Zerker so no one complained heavily. If they nerf it into the ground the money spent on the gear grind they promised us would not be in this game might lead to some legit quit threads.

The way I see it given the commendation, gold, fractal infusions, etc there is only so much they can do with out doing more harm then good.

This is fair, but we’ve been here before, remember: gear with magic find. ANet has it within their power to allow people to re-stat their Ascended gear to adjust to changes made to something like crit damage.

Likely they wont do that. The main reason is this might either be a nerf to crit damage, a change in mechanics, and/or a buff to condition damage. Unlike MF gear they aren’t getting rid of crit damage gear. The main concern I see is that they will boost other stat combos to the point that running glassy isn’t worth it. If they touch it in WvW well….

Remove stats from gear.
Separate trait lines and stats.
There you go. 70 points to put into 700 stats.
14 traits to select.
Diversity.
Balance.
Bliss.

I dont really think that in a pvp scenario almost ruled by conditions the devs would nerf crit damage…i otherwise think it will be a buff in some way

Just a what if….

What if they changed the mechanics of critical hits to increase power on a critical hit by a value determined by critical damage rather then multiply it in the damage calculation. That way they could introduce a form of diminishing returns, the more power there is in your build the smaller the gain of adding even more becomes. Similarly, the critical hit mechanism would become interesting for low-power builds. It could even conceivable use a temporary might, aiding in power and condition damage and/or be limited by the cap on might stacks (in group settings might is more likely at max stacks already).

frans.8092:

Just a what if….

What if they changed the mechanics of critical hits to increase power on a critical hit by a value determined by critical damage rather then multiply it in the damage calculation. That way they could introduce a form of diminishing returns, the more power there is in your build the smaller the gain of adding even more becomes. Similarly, the critical hit mechanism would become interesting for low-power builds. It could even conceivable use a temporary might, aiding in power and condition damage and/or be limited by the cap on might stacks (in group settings might is more likely at max stacks already).

There’s no reason to disguise a nerf except to try to spin it to people that it’s actually not a nerf. Changing how Critical Damage functions as part of the damage formula and making it deal less damage than it currently does is the same end result as straight nerfing the percentage of Critical Damage provided by gear.

That’s like when companies change there incentive programs so they have to pay less out, but try to spin it to employees that its better by highlighting only the positives of the new system and ignoring the negatives.

If ANet thinks critical damage is too strong in it’s current implementation, just nerf the numbers. It will save them dev time so they can work on something else.

Shockwave.1230:

… disguise … try to spin it … incentive programs … try to spin it …

I don’t feel like replying to propaganda style arguments on a game forum while discussing game mechanics.

If ANet thinks critical damage is too strong in it’s current implementation, just nerf the numbers. It will save them dev time so they can work on something else.

Most changes to gear stats will require more time testing their effect on balance then implementing them.

frans.8092:

Shockwave.1230:

… disguise … try to spin it … incentive programs … try to spin it …

I don’t feel like replying to propaganda style arguments on a game forum while discussing game mechanics.

If ANet thinks critical damage is too strong in it’s current implementation, just nerf the numbers. It will save them dev time so they can work on something else.

Most changes to gear stats will require more time testing their effect on balance then implementing them.

You’d be doing this regression testing regardless of the change you make. Making the simpler change requires less planning, less coding, and less test prep.

Shockwave.1230:

You’d be doing this regression testing regardless of the change you make. Making the simpler change requires less planning, less coding, and less test prep.

We seem to agree that both types of changes need testing.
We don’t know how it’s implemented. Changing stats might require modifying every item in existence, or it might be code that determines stats based on level, type and rarity. Similarly damage might be calculated in one place, or in many. Either way, changing those will, I think, take less time then testing the results.

I’m a leading man and the lies I weave are oh so intricate, oh so intricate

Interceptor.2653:

Excalibur.9748:

WTH dude, why would you report it, I just wanna know how many thieves quit after the Dec.10 path, and why. It’s a tally for informational purpose only.

I didn’t report your thread. I clicked on it, and thought it was sad that people who stopped playing would still come here, but that’s about it.

Nah what’s really sad is how the forum is more fun than the game…

Discordia.7293:

I see incoming nerf for lyssa, critical dmg and energy sigils.

Nopls.

/15chars

Ok thief broken now.

they would never nerf lyssa. they are mediocre runes.

In a game where all classes were designed to be efficient and thus speed (more accurately, damage deal) kills, then why are the Devs surpised when everybody wants to stack zerk gear? kitten poor planning coupled with unrealistic aspirations on the part of the Dev team.

Dee Jay.2460:

I think they are just going to change the scaling of crit-damage away from a fixed %-number to a more abstract numerical value like most other stats.

So instead of having +1% Crit Damage on gear in the future we will have +21 Crit-Damage on gear.

This allows for:

• Better scaling should the level-cap ever be increased.
• More nuanced gear-differentiation instead of relying on full-% jumps.

The problem is seen in Ascended gear where only one item has an actual increase in Crit-Damage instead distributing the increase across multiple items.

It’s essentially the same problem vanilla WoW had when it featured fixed-% for Crit-Chance instead of abstract but scalable numbers.

I don’t think it will be a straight-up nerf to Berserker gear or even that play-style albeit we might find ourselves with slightly less Crit-damage.

I also thing they will change Sigils to no longer procc “on crit”, and instead procc “on hit”.

Again, not huge changes but slight alternations to make them more appealing to a wider range of builds.

Looks like my prediction was spot-on.

But really dude, I spent 1 hour watching the stream just to hear them say they nerfed choking gas. They obviously haven’t spent enough time on balancing the thief. It seems like they only nerfed choking gas just because it was like the engineer’s poison field.

Potato.7318:

But really dude, I spent 1 hour watching the stream just to hear them say they nerfed choking gas. They obviously haven’t spent enough time on balancing the thief. It seems like they only nerfed choking gas just because it was like the engineer’s poison field.

They’ve said i think multiple times that a lot of things were left out and will be included in the patch notes (supposedly good things for the thief). So… yeah aside from a nerf we will be getting random buffs… Traps/Hard-to-catch/Healing-power/venom random buffs…

also, for the choking gas:

Zero Day.2594:

Originally by: Otaur.9268

What: Condition Damage (Chocking gas and caltrops specifically) and Stealth
Why: I spammed shortbow poison aoe, caltrops, etc to apply conditions on foes in area and noticed I can pretty much kill both players and monsters without becoming “revealed.” This is getting more and more popular in WvW and it is rather unfair… But this is enough, please make any damage the thieves do in stealth apply revealed. Spamming conditions from stealth should reveal them.
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-Damage-and-Stealth/first#post3225311

(Side note: Never mind the Mesmer’s clones…)

nvm, misunderstood what -10% is supposed to be

119 crit damage into roughly 88.
NOP NOT A NERF AT ALL

Ichishi.9613:

119 crit damage into roughly 88.
NOP NOT A NERF AT ALL

Source? How do you know whaat amount of ferocity will give 1% crit dmg?

Apparently roughly 14 Ferocity will = 1% Crit-Damage. But I have no source.

So +72 stats should equal 5.1% Crit-Damage which would change nothing.
But +24 stats would only equal 1.71% Crit-Damage which would be a nerf.

And since we have quite a few more +24 items than others, this should result in a noticeable drop in Crit-Damage.

Most affected are going to be Runes and Orbs though.

Whereas Runes of the Traveler and Divinity used to grant +2% Crit damage (ergo, roughly 28 Ferocity) they will now barely grant 1% Crit-Damage.

Yes, zerker trinkets get a nerf and ascended ones even more. But zerker armor might see a small buff. Celestial things may get hit the hardest.

Well that what happens when they try to balance pve encounters by kittening around with player stats.