Guild Wars 2

LOCO.1785:

Lol, I prefer to see a variety of builds rather than just one standard that everyone uses.

Anyway, I agree with the majority here that this change wasn’t needed, but in saying that I don’t think it’s that drastic. Sure PvE is a little harder for us now, but I like the extra challenge and it makes me a better player in the long run now that I can’t just drop stealth and reset aggro all the time.

Time to adapt guys!

Actually no, it’s pretty freaking drastic. You’re basically saying that removing the main mechanic that makes a class that class (other than aesthetics) isn’t drastic. If you want the extra challenge of not using stealth try rolling a different class.

Know what’s fun now? Using Cloak and Dagger on a mob, then positioning for a side strike and getting clubbed in the face and knocked down before you get your stealth attack in. This could be the worst “rebalancing” I’ve ever seen in a game that nobody even asked for. Good thing they buffed Krait though – that was a real eff’ing issue right there.

killimandros.5087:

Kasama, i believe you got it wrong. Maybe, just maybe ranger pets will be faster on thieves again. In any other pvp situation there will be no, zero difference. You will still die. It only nerfed the pve thieves, who were a pretty weak class anyways if im not wrong (never do pve on my thief).

frans.8092:

We’re talking PvE mobs here, not Wvw. PvE mobs already were doing a lot better then Wvw zerglings against thieves.

But I really wouldn’t mind seeing something like that ranger trait for a permanent +50% endurance regeneration. Beats the 15% refund by a mile.

I was referring to new Thief players, playing PvE. The majority of current Thieves are already lost to the Cloak and Dagger stealth spam fest. This change means that new players won’t fall into bad habits, but will learn how to use movement more. Meaning that we might see some more movement focused Thieves, which are not only a lot of fun to play, but also fun to play against.

The Thief already has the best movement in the game, through shadow stepping, stealth, and dodging. +50% endurance regeneration on top would just be ridiculous.

Jammypack.3018:

LOCO.1785:

Lol, I prefer to see a variety of builds rather than just one standard that everyone uses.

Anyway, I agree with the majority here that this change wasn’t needed, but in saying that I don’t think it’s that drastic. Sure PvE is a little harder for us now, but I like the extra challenge and it makes me a better player in the long run now that I can’t just drop stealth and reset aggro all the time.

Time to adapt guys!

Actually no, it’s pretty freaking drastic. You’re basically saying that removing the main mechanic that makes a class that class (other than aesthetics) isn’t drastic. If you want the extra challenge of not using stealth try rolling a different class.

Know what’s fun now? Using Cloak and Dagger on a mob, then positioning for a side strike and getting clubbed in the face and knocked down before you get your stealth attack in. This could be the worst “rebalancing” I’ve ever seen in a game that nobody even asked for. Good thing they buffed Krait though – that was a real eff’ing issue right there.

What the hell are you talking about?

They haven’t removed stealth, one of the main mechanics of the thief. They simply modified it so you don’t drop off the aggro table of NPCs. So you can still stealth, then backstab, whatever, but upon reappearing, the NPC will still remember you did damage to it. Previously when you used stealth, you’d lose all aggro altogether.

Sounds like you haven’t even played the game since they patched it.

They should just remove stealth now. Rename the thief to something else. Because they are unable to hide at all. Stealth doesn’t just keep aggro on you it causes it.

Thief can’t steal loot and can’t hide in the shadows. Our armor is weaker then Light armor classes and our damage is pitiful if you don’t use stealth. It’s not a proper thief anymore.

They might as well remove the entire class. Clearly they don’t want you play the way a thief should be playing. They should just change it to acrobat because that’s the best thing the class has going for it. The only thing.

Not even most human players will hunt down a stealth thief who go two dodges and a shadowstep away. But every NPC does now.

I can’t help but think that the whole time I have played my thief, that was an abuse of stealth. The only thing that makes you lose aggro is range or another player. I don’t see why it should be any different for thieves. LoS or stealth shouldn’t allow you to manipulate aggro.

I run a high toughness tanky type Thief. Usually I have a heavy or two in my pve groups that can take threat from me AFTER I stealth. This is no longer an option. Now I have to be more creative in tanking, kiting and moving more. A lot more annoying for the group that now needs to chase mobs more. Tank switching was viable with stealth dropping aggro, now it is not.
Also, now that downed skill 3 is pretty much useless will we get a new one?

LOCO.1785:

Jammypack.3018:

LOCO.1785:

Lol, I prefer to see a variety of builds rather than just one standard that everyone uses.

Anyway, I agree with the majority here that this change wasn’t needed, but in saying that I don’t think it’s that drastic. Sure PvE is a little harder for us now, but I like the extra challenge and it makes me a better player in the long run now that I can’t just drop stealth and reset aggro all the time.

Time to adapt guys!

Actually no, it’s pretty freaking drastic. You’re basically saying that removing the main mechanic that makes a class that class (other than aesthetics) isn’t drastic. If you want the extra challenge of not using stealth try rolling a different class.

Know what’s fun now? Using Cloak and Dagger on a mob, then positioning for a side strike and getting clubbed in the face and knocked down before you get your stealth attack in. This could be the worst “rebalancing” I’ve ever seen in a game that nobody even asked for. Good thing they buffed Krait though – that was a real eff’ing issue right there.

What the hell are you talking about?

They haven’t removed stealth, one of the main mechanics of the thief. They simply modified it so you don’t drop off the aggro table of NPCs. So you can still stealth, then backstab, whatever, but upon reappearing, the NPC will still remember you did damage to it. Previously when you used stealth, you’d lose all aggro altogether.

Sounds like you haven’t even played the game since they patched it.

Sounds like your reading comprehension is stunted.

They arbitrarily removed a mechanic that has been there from the start that basically was the centerpoint of most of it’s utility [b] and kind of the reason to use the skill itself. Did you read the title of this thread? Not only do enemies not de-aggro (i.e. walk away and begin to recover hip’s) but they are immediately aware of your position and resume attacking.

Also, Mesmer veil? Mass invis? Mostly used to de-aggro when avoiding things. Useless otherwise. And don’t start in with “oh its a pvp skill as well and yada” because the nerf had nothing to do with rebalancing pvp and all to do with Anets obsession over having its PVE player base be forced into not being able to bypass ANYTHING.

I thought thieves were asking for stealth not to cause mobs to fully heal. If you don’t want that, it seems logical that you must accept this change. Seems like a l2p issue.

Columba.9730:

I thought thieves were asking for stealth not to cause mobs to fully heal. If you don’t want that, it seems logical that you must accept this change. Seems like a l2p issue.

Well, maybe the bad ones were asking for it.
I played thief from the start and it were never an issue. One can not expect to hide for ten seconds and go back in combat again like nothing happenned. It was fine, seems way off to me now.
It doesn’t really make sense that an aggressive foe is able to “spot” you from an increased distance, in a direction where it can’t see you, just because you have hit/aggro it previously.
Someone stab you and vanish, he goes hide himself 10 meters away behind a wall (no line of sight), and at the second he appears, you know where he is ?
Superman-vision-foes-everywhere ?

Ranger pets behave the same way, lol. Harder to exploit the culling bug now. Seems fair to me.

Jammypack.3018:

Know what’s fun now? Using Cloak and Dagger on a mob, then positioning for a side strike and getting clubbed in the face and knocked down before you get your stealth attack in. This could be the worst “rebalancing” I’ve ever seen in a game that nobody even asked for. Good thing they buffed Krait though – that was a real eff’ing issue right there.

How am I meant to interpret this bolded part?

Because what you’ve said right here is not true. Mobs do not attack you while you’re in stealth. So you can still use C&D and backstab as per usual.

My reading comprehension is fine, you need to explain yourself better.

And for the record I’m not happy with the change either, thieves need buffs in PvE, not nerfs. All I originally said is it’s not the end of the world, I know I’ll be able to adapt fine.

Columba.9730:

I thought thieves were asking for stealth not to cause mobs to fully heal. If you don’t want that, it seems logical that you must accept this change. Seems like a l2p issue.

That never happened. Mobs only reset health if you go in to a Refuge and sit there for way longer than a stealth that, say, Hide in Shadows or Cloak and Dagger gives. If you chained stealths to remain hidden for longer, and the mob had no other target, you should have seen it coming.

All that had to be done was to delay the leashing mechanic by a second or two, or at least the regeneration part if it was somehow a problem, not completely re-vamp aggro tables and ruin the mechanic in group PvE. Sure, any Thief worth their salt can adapt to enemies punishing you more for using your only real defence, but how is it “logical” to simply accept that change? That’s ludicrous.

Columba.9730:

I thought thieves were asking for stealth not to cause mobs to fully heal. If you don’t want that, it seems logical that you must accept this change. Seems like a l2p issue.

Except mobs keep fully healing when you stealth…
So, no change at all to accept.

Graphite.2169:

Columba.9730:

I thought thieves were asking for stealth not to cause mobs to fully heal. If you don’t want that, it seems logical that you must accept this change. Seems like a l2p issue.

Well, maybe the bad ones were asking for it.
I played thief from the start and it were never an issue. One can not expect to hide for ten seconds and go back in combat again like nothing happenned. It was fine, seems way off to me now.
It doesn’t really make sense that an aggressive foe is able to “spot” you from an increased distance, in a direction where it can’t see you, just because you have hit/aggro it previously.
Someone stab you and vanish, he goes hide himself 10 meters away behind a wall (no line of sight), and at the second he appears, you know where he is ?
Superman-vision-foes-everywhere ?

Sense of smell.

Killersquall.5730:

Graphite.2169:

Columba.9730:

I thought thieves were asking for stealth not to cause mobs to fully heal. If you don’t want that, it seems logical that you must accept this change. Seems like a l2p issue.

Well, maybe the bad ones were asking for it.
I played thief from the start and it were never an issue. One can not expect to hide for ten seconds and go back in combat again like nothing happenned. It was fine, seems way off to me now.
It doesn’t really make sense that an aggressive foe is able to “spot” you from an increased distance, in a direction where it can’t see you, just because you have hit/aggro it previously.
Someone stab you and vanish, he goes hide himself 10 meters away behind a wall (no line of sight), and at the second he appears, you know where he is ?
Superman-vision-foes-everywhere ?

Sense of smell.

So basically every monster has the sense of smell of an hound.

Please people, stop trying to justify this kind of things. It was unneeded and it only worsen the PvE side for Thieves.

Columba.9730:

I think it was needed. Permastealth was a crutch.

What on earth has permastealth got to do with this? Stop being bitter about PvP, because it’s irrelevant to the topic. All you ever do is whine about Thieves in PvP, and that’s fine, do it all day long, freedom of speech and all that, but not in this thread. Absolutely irrelevant and pointless comments.

Daendur.2357:

you have to use stealth to make distance between you and mobs if you want to lose agro. bad.
downed skill useless. again the worst down mode

No way eng have it way worse

LOCO.1785:

Jammypack.3018:

Know what’s fun now? Using Cloak and Dagger on a mob, then positioning for a side strike and getting clubbed in the face and knocked down before you get your stealth attack in. This could be the worst “rebalancing” I’ve ever seen in a game that nobody even asked for. Good thing they buffed Krait though – that was a real eff’ing issue right there.

How am I meant to interpret this bolded part?

Because what you’ve said right here is not true. Mobs do not attack you while you’re in stealth. So you can still use C&D and backstab as per usual.

My reading comprehension is fine, you need to explain yourself better.

And for the record I’m not happy with the change either, thieves need buffs in PvE, not nerfs. All I originally said is it’s not the end of the world, I know I’ll be able to adapt fine.

My bad – I guess the “before you get your stealth attack in” was a bit confusing. What i meant to say was “then positioning for a side strike and getting clubbed in the face and knocked down before you get a chance to attack because you unstealth right when you’re about to attack and the mob immediately hits you at the same time you hit it”.

There was actually a problem with the way stealth aggro was handled before the patch. May be it would be unnoticeable when fighting mobs, but in bosses it was a problem. The first triat I believe from shodow arts not really sure(an odd one by the way, you couldn t change it if you wanted to go through that line), release blinding powder when you are with less than 25% of life. Before the patch I was in a boss foght in fractals lv 40+, and all the party was together, i got downed and released blinding powder from the trait, my party was resing another downed player, and less than 2 seconds happened and the boss have already reset. This only happened to me once and probably we could have avoided it by attacking faster but there was a wall of reflection so party was resing, i have an auto smoke screen when downed and I got downed by the agony so i was healing myself, and we didn t imagine that it would reset in less than 2 seconds, actually it was almost an instant reset. May be their soultion wasn t the best, probably it would have been better if they added more time before reseting or better that they don t reset if someone is close but keep losing the aggro( don t know if thats possible), or many other solutions i dont know. But there was actually a problem before. It only happened to me once and it was thanks to my traits but may be it was a problem for other players. Since patch I dont have to worry about my stealth skills, I can even res 4 players downed in dungeons with sr without worrying about reseting the boss, I know it s hard that 4 people get downed at same time but i have seen it happening.

Vecuu.2018:

They did it to help thieves level stealth-based builds.

Without the change, your target would begin to reset every time you stealthed.

That’s partially what I’m seeing however now that they fixate it actually can cause mobs to endlessly keep you in combat status and trust me that was bad enough before.

Lighter.5631:

iNaddict.8021:

i feel the same way. i cant figure out the reasoning. there are other things that are much more broken than a thief’s PvE.. and it is not like we are PvE ezmode..

you want a class that is more broken in any and every other way? try warrior

i dont get your post? i wasnt asking for a more ezmode class?

well, after more testing.. i still think it was unnecessary change.. Though it isnt going to make me quit.. but makes more a more annoying experience at times.

Dundir.2853:

I run a high toughness tanky type Thief. Usually I have a heavy or two in my pve groups that can take threat from me AFTER I stealth. This is no longer an option. Now I have to be more creative in tanking, kiting and moving more. A lot more annoying for the group that now needs to chase mobs more. Tank switching was viable with stealth dropping aggro, now it is not.
Also, now that downed skill 3 is pretty much useless will we get a new one?

this was the exact reason for the change…

being able to bounce a boss off two thieves can be considered possibly as an exploit as no other class can drop aggro like that..

all this change did was to make thieves have to handle them like the rest of us have too..

that is apart from some of the other issues i read here like positioning for side strikes and getting hit before you can land that hit for instance..

and for the pvp side of things im glad thieves cannot abuse culling so easily..

p.s. my pet remembers every time you mistreated him and he’s comming for blood!

firebreathz.7692:

Dundir.2853:

I run a high toughness tanky type Thief. Usually I have a heavy or two in my pve groups that can take threat from me AFTER I stealth. This is no longer an option. Now I have to be more creative in tanking, kiting and moving more. A lot more annoying for the group that now needs to chase mobs more. Tank switching was viable with stealth dropping aggro, now it is not.
Also, now that downed skill 3 is pretty much useless will we get a new one?

this was the exact reason for the change…

being able to bounce a boss off two thieves can be considered possibly as an exploit as no other class can drop aggro like that..

all this change did was to make thieves have to handle them like the rest of us have too..

that is apart from some of the other issues i read here like positioning for side strikes and getting hit before you can land that hit for instance..

and for the pvp side of things im glad thieves cannot abuse culling so easily..

p.s. my pet remembers every time you mistreated him and he’s comming for blood!

We aren’t like other classes though, we have the lowest HP and defense (no def boons.. stealth pretty much was it). Even in crappy Aion Assassins had a skill to drop aggro~ I thought it was working as intended so we don’t insta-die constantly in Melee PvE.
If you build toughness+dmg like me for more survivability you actually draw more aggo, apparently. Low HP/ High Toughness~ sometimes I’ll end up with 100% permanent focus over the heavys.
Maybe they should of had it dump 99% aggro instead? The instant AI tracking is still so weird, unrealistic and annoying in pve though. It could use some kind of LOS. This effects non thief allys in PvE as well, I can’t protect others as well anymore when they’re dieing. Our support role was nerfed with this.

Doggie.3184:

firebreathz.7692:

Dundir.2853:

I run a high toughness tanky type Thief. Usually I have a heavy or two in my pve groups that can take threat from me AFTER I stealth. This is no longer an option. Now I have to be more creative in tanking, kiting and moving more. A lot more annoying for the group that now needs to chase mobs more. Tank switching was viable with stealth dropping aggro, now it is not.
Also, now that downed skill 3 is pretty much useless will we get a new one?

this was the exact reason for the change…

being able to bounce a boss off two thieves can be considered possibly as an exploit as no other class can drop aggro like that..

all this change did was to make thieves have to handle them like the rest of us have too..

that is apart from some of the other issues i read here like positioning for side strikes and getting hit before you can land that hit for instance..

and for the pvp side of things im glad thieves cannot abuse culling so easily..

p.s. my pet remembers every time you mistreated him and he’s comming for blood!

We aren’t like other classes though, we have the lowest HP and defense (no def boons.. stealth pretty much was it). Even in crappy Aion Assassins had a skill to drop aggro~ I thought it was working as intended so we don’t insta-die constantly in Melee PvE.
If you build toughness+dmg like me for more survivability you actually draw more aggo, apparently. Low HP/ High Toughness~ sometimes I’ll end up with 100% permanent focus over the heavys.
Maybe they should of had it dump 99% aggro instead? The instant AI tracking is still so weird, unrealistic and annoying in pve though. It could use some kind of LOS. This effects non thief allys in PvE as well, I can’t protect others as well anymore when they’re dieing. Our support role was nerfed with this.

You don’t have the lowest defense or HP.

Columba.9730:

Doggie.3184:

firebreathz.7692:

Dundir.2853:

I run a high toughness tanky type Thief. Usually I have a heavy or two in my pve groups that can take threat from me AFTER I stealth. This is no longer an option. Now I have to be more creative in tanking, kiting and moving more. A lot more annoying for the group that now needs to chase mobs more. Tank switching was viable with stealth dropping aggro, now it is not.
Also, now that downed skill 3 is pretty much useless will we get a new one?

this was the exact reason for the change…

being able to bounce a boss off two thieves can be considered possibly as an exploit as no other class can drop aggro like that..

all this change did was to make thieves have to handle them like the rest of us have too..

that is apart from some of the other issues i read here like positioning for side strikes and getting hit before you can land that hit for instance..

and for the pvp side of things im glad thieves cannot abuse culling so easily..

p.s. my pet remembers every time you mistreated him and he’s comming for blood!

We aren’t like other classes though, we have the lowest HP and defense (no def boons.. stealth pretty much was it). Even in crappy Aion Assassins had a skill to drop aggro~ I thought it was working as intended so we don’t insta-die constantly in Melee PvE.
If you build toughness+dmg like me for more survivability you actually draw more aggo, apparently. Low HP/ High Toughness~ sometimes I’ll end up with 100% permanent focus over the heavys.
Maybe they should of had it dump 99% aggro instead? The instant AI tracking is still so weird, unrealistic and annoying in pve though. It could use some kind of LOS. This effects non thief allys in PvE as well, I can’t protect others as well anymore when they’re dieing. Our support role was nerfed with this.

You don’t have the lowest defense or HP.

We have the lowest defense and HP.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health
We don’t have shields and defense boons like Ele and Guardians do.

LOCO.1785:

Mobs do not attack you while you’re in stealth.

Unfortunately I have to confirm that they do. Channeled abilities still damage you. I even had some single target single damage skills of mobs happen to attack me after I stealthed.
Probably not intended but it happens.

Columba.9730:

Doggie.3184:

firebreathz.7692:

Dundir.2853:

I run a high toughness tanky type Thief. Usually I have a heavy or two in my pve groups that can take threat from me AFTER I stealth. This is no longer an option. Now I have to be more creative in tanking, kiting and moving more. A lot more annoying for the group that now needs to chase mobs more. Tank switching was viable with stealth dropping aggro, now it is not.
Also, now that downed skill 3 is pretty much useless will we get a new one?

this was the exact reason for the change…

being able to bounce a boss off two thieves can be considered possibly as an exploit as no other class can drop aggro like that..

all this change did was to make thieves have to handle them like the rest of us have too..

that is apart from some of the other issues i read here like positioning for side strikes and getting hit before you can land that hit for instance..

and for the pvp side of things im glad thieves cannot abuse culling so easily..

p.s. my pet remembers every time you mistreated him and he’s comming for blood!

We aren’t like other classes though, we have the lowest HP and defense (no def boons.. stealth pretty much was it). Even in crappy Aion Assassins had a skill to drop aggro~ I thought it was working as intended so we don’t insta-die constantly in Melee PvE.
If you build toughness+dmg like me for more survivability you actually draw more aggo, apparently. Low HP/ High Toughness~ sometimes I’ll end up with 100% permanent focus over the heavys.
Maybe they should of had it dump 99% aggro instead? The instant AI tracking is still so weird, unrealistic and annoying in pve though. It could use some kind of LOS. This effects non thief allys in PvE as well, I can’t protect others as well anymore when they’re dieing. Our support role was nerfed with this.

You don’t have the lowest defense or HP.

Who has lower?
Only armor less than medium is scholar.
Who has Protection boon and who doesn’t?
Very relevant since it’s also part of why Guardians take less damage than Warriors.

Columba.9730:

You don’t have the lowest defense or HP.

Thieves DO have the lowest HP on par with Guardians and Elementalists, and have no ready access to damage mitigation boons like protection or aegis. That trait is shared with the Mesmer, who has 5k more base HP (matching Rangers and Engineers).

Try looking at the wiki for more than one nanosecond before you spread more lies. The amount of garbage you spurt on these forums is just horrific.

I for one liked how the mechanics functioned.
It was cool to have a build that consisted of high toughness which allocates aggro tables to put that character higher on the priority list, when the character itself is squishy but was able to stealth to give aggro to someone else. But to nullify the only means to reset aggro and (situational) send it to someone who has high vitality/specific boons etc.. is really breaking how the class is played in my opinion. So basically a stealth build thief is just a squishy warrior with high toughness making it a higher threat to mobs on aggro tables who uses stealth to try to heal and backstab (If they’re even using D/D) instead of just using straight out healing utilities and boons like real warriors do. Thanks Anet T_T

However I am still fairly new to GW2 and I guess I just might not understand how Anet works, but my question(s) are:
1) Did any person who normally plays thief ask for this?
2) Did Anet disclose that they were thinking of changing aggro tables for stealth and ask the community’s opinion since virtually no one was talking about it?…LOL
3) Is it me, or is all this information being shared on this thread, though insightful on both ends of the one sided argument going to be acknowledged by Anet at all? A bit of time has passed since the patch and still no word (that I know of) from an Anet representative on the matter to at least explain their reasons for changing a mechanic that no one asked to be changed. :/

I do understand I might be asking a lot of Anet by suggesting to..you know.. interact with it’s members lol. Especially on an issue like this in which they change a mechanic in the best interest of said members and also which has received the majority opinion of WTF!? Why!?. But some sort of explanation would be cool :/ Then again I might be asking too much.

If there is a thread of what I have mentioned. Please link because I have seemed to have missed it.

Auesis.7301:

Columba.9730:

You don’t have the lowest defense or HP.

Thieves DO have the lowest HP on par with Guardians and Elementalists, and have no ready access to damage mitigation boons like protection or aegis. That trait is shared with the Mesmer, who has 5k more base HP (matching Rangers and Engineers).

Try looking at the wiki for more than one nanosecond before you spread more lies. The amount of garbage you spurt on these forums is just horrific.

No lower hp than guardian or mesmer, and stealth is a great defense.

Columba.9730:

]

No lower hp than guardian or mesmer, and stealth WAS a great defense.

I just corrected your statement : ).

Well, at least in PvE the defense value of stealth got nerfed quite a bit now.

Mobs before the nerf: “What the… WHERE is that thief again?!!”
Mobs after the nerf: “HAHA You CAN’T hide from us!!”
…

I created my thief after seeing how they could hide from mobs chasing them.

This nerf is a severe loss in style, flavor, fun, defense and support for the thief.

Whatever is the reason for this I hope it was necessary because a lot of PvE thieves are quite disgusted by this.

Sad.

Ayochak.8293:

Mobs before the nerf: “What the… WHERE is that thief again?!!”
Mobs after the nerf: “HAHA You CAN’T hide from us!!”
…

I created my thief after seeing how they could hide from mobs chasing them.

This nerf is a severe loss in style, flavor, fun, defense and support for the thief.

Whatever is the reason for this I hope it was necessary because a lot of PvE thieves are quite disgusted by this.

Sad.

You can still escape from the mob. They cannot find you while stealthed.

Columba.9730:

Ayochak.8293:

Mobs before the nerf: “What the… WHERE is that thief again?!!”
Mobs after the nerf: “HAHA You CAN’T hide from us!!”
…

I created my thief after seeing how they could hide from mobs chasing them.

This nerf is a severe loss in style, flavor, fun, defense and support for the thief.

Whatever is the reason for this I hope it was necessary because a lot of PvE thieves are quite disgusted by this.

Sad.

You can still escape from the mob. They cannot find you while stealthed.

w…wat?
so you want to completely stand there in stealth to be the most useless person there…
gg with that logic
that’s even worse than someone trying to run a full healing build
nobody likes to carry players….

Alpha.1308:

Columba.9730:

Ayochak.8293:

Mobs before the nerf: “What the… WHERE is that thief again?!!”
Mobs after the nerf: “HAHA You CAN’T hide from us!!”
…

I created my thief after seeing how they could hide from mobs chasing them.

This nerf is a severe loss in style, flavor, fun, defense and support for the thief.

Whatever is the reason for this I hope it was necessary because a lot of PvE thieves are quite disgusted by this.

Sad.

You can still escape from the mob. They cannot find you while stealthed.

w…wat?
so you want to completely stand there in stealth to be the most useless person there…
gg with that logic
that’s even worse than someone trying to run a full healing build
nobody likes to carry players….

Isn’t that what thieves tell everyone else to do vs. permastealthed thieves? just run away?

It’s one way to handle it yes. I’ve still yet to encounter a permastealthed anything that does damage while maintaining 100% stealth throughout the duration of a fight.. But if I did, I suppose I would either run or take the advice of the many thieves on this forum.

So why isn’t that an acceptable answer for thieves to do as well?

Dundir.2853:

I run a high toughness tanky type Thief. Usually I have a heavy or two in my pve groups that can take threat from me AFTER I stealth. This is no longer an option. Now I have to be more creative in tanking, kiting and moving more. A lot more annoying for the group that now needs to chase mobs more. Tank switching was viable with stealth dropping aggro, now it is not.
Also, now that downed skill 3 is pretty much useless will we get a new one?

This is exactly whats going on. EXACTLY.

With the lowest hp pool and no mitigation we’re screwed… but when we fight a mob that does channeled attacks… (like the young karka) we can stealth as the attack begins, but the monster will keep channeling and facing you and you can’t attack back then you’re just a ‘pseudo-invisible punching bag’…. and that’s impossible.

If the thief’s CLASS DEFINING ability gets shredded, then it should be countered with something like immunity during stealth – especially if mobs can track, attack, and not drop any threat.

Anyone who disagrees, roll a thief, unlock C&D… level it to 10, 20… whatever, take it in a Fractal… and tell me just how much fun you’re having.

it’s not acceptable for ANYBODY to be permastealthed…..
if you aren’t attacking,you aren’t helping at all
you’re being carried by everyone else in your group
unless you have less than 10% health remaining and hiding behind walls for Heal to recharge
Stealth was used to end aggro,not Stealth,and stay IN stealth for the full duration,nobody ever did that unless they were resurrecting someone
even if you stealthed anyone,it would end a second later from auto attacking through it or a ranged projectile reaching the target as the Stealth connected
i don’t even understand how there is a debate about this…..
that or i’m just not understand the question being asked at all,in which case i apologize and would very much like an explanation of what’s going on

Sinsko.9342:

Dundir.2853:

I run a high toughness tanky type Thief. Usually I have a heavy or two in my pve groups that can take threat from me AFTER I stealth. This is no longer an option. Now I have to be more creative in tanking, kiting and moving more. A lot more annoying for the group that now needs to chase mobs more. Tank switching was viable with stealth dropping aggro, now it is not.
Also, now that downed skill 3 is pretty much useless will we get a new one?

This is exactly whats going on. EXACTLY.

With the lowest hp pool and no mitigation we’re screwed… but when we fight a mob that does channeled attacks… (like the young karka) we can stealth as the attack begins, but the monster will keep channeling and facing you and you can’t attack back then you’re just a ‘pseudo-invisible punching bag’…. and that’s impossible.

If the thief’s CLASS DEFINING ability gets shredded, then it should be countered with something like immunity during stealth – especially if mobs can track, attack, and not drop any threat.

Anyone who disagrees, roll a thief, unlock C&D… level it to 10, 20… whatever, take it in a Fractal… and tell me just how much fun you’re having.

^this
only invulnerability would mean even more ridiculousness especially in pvp,or just simply before an extremely over powered boss attack that’s difficult to dodge and no one has endurance left,everyone would just roll Shadow Refuge on party and/or Blinding Powder right before it connected….not sure if you were serious about that or not though….but everything else /yes

Alpha.1308:

Sinsko.9342:

Dundir.2853:

I run a high toughness tanky type Thief. Usually I have a heavy or two in my pve groups that can take threat from me AFTER I stealth. This is no longer an option. Now I have to be more creative in tanking, kiting and moving more. A lot more annoying for the group that now needs to chase mobs more. Tank switching was viable with stealth dropping aggro, now it is not.
Also, now that downed skill 3 is pretty much useless will we get a new one?

This is exactly whats going on. EXACTLY.

With the lowest hp pool and no mitigation we’re screwed… but when we fight a mob that does channeled attacks… (like the young karka) we can stealth as the attack begins, but the monster will keep channeling and facing you and you can’t attack back then you’re just a ‘pseudo-invisible punching bag’…. and that’s impossible.

If the thief’s CLASS DEFINING ability gets shredded, then it should be countered with something like immunity during stealth – especially if mobs can track, attack, and not drop any threat.

Anyone who disagrees, roll a thief, unlock C&D… level it to 10, 20… whatever, take it in a Fractal… and tell me just how much fun you’re having.

^this
only invulnerability would mean even more ridiculousness especially in pvp,or just simply before an extremely over powered boss attack that’s difficult to dodge and no one has endurance left,everyone would just roll Shadow Refuge on party and/or Blinding Powder right before it connected….not sure if you were serious about that or not though….but everything else /yes

I have no idea what it would take the programmers to have a channeled attack stop from a mob… it appears that there’s some issue, just like when we would stealth and jump back on the monster and it would take the enemy a moment to realize it was being attacked. (PVE)

Actually… does anyone know ***WHY*** there was a stealth change?
A post from ArenaNet?

I’d love to get some feedback on this from the horse’s mouth as this DRASTICALLY changes the class… but was slid into a patch note very nonchalant.

noticed that,too,about the taking a few moments to realize it was being hit,i figured it was a gift for being so squishy….
in all honesty,ya,pretty much,i would like an explanation aswell as to why this was implemented…
some people,though,were saying it was “because mobs would reset if you were soloing and they didn’t want to re do the whole thing”
but i doubt that
highly

it seems like the real reason (to me) is they want Stealth to be a last-resort option so you can leave and try to heal yourself (not dropping combat,but still,with regen,healing,etc)
even though as we all know even WITH the aggro drop it was still a hard time for a squishy thief to even do that

(let alone as a MESMER it was difficult ,but this isn’t the thread to talk about mesmers [and their TWO 90s cooldown stealth that’s now useless from this update,aswell…])

plus having so much downtime in ANY game is a completely foolish idea,even if it means you’re trying to recover,that’s the whole reason they wanted every class to have a healing skill,and to not have a main-healer and tank,isn’t it? they didn’t want anyone to sit there doing nothing?
i mean…come on….

Alpha.1308:

some people,though,were saying it was “because mobs would reset if you were soloing and they didn’t want to re do the whole thing”
but i doubt that
highly

If the way stealth worked was SO BAD… well there are other options they could roll with, like giving stealth an inherent aggro drop mechanic… or if the stealth system is really as bad as they thought… remove C&D, and get rid of ‘stealth attacks’ like backstab.

-Which of course, is very challenging to do if you have a 2-3 second window on stealth and need to run behind a monster who is channel-locked-front-facing you. lol

It just blows my mind that such a major change was made this far after launch.

Sinsko.9342:

It just blows my mind that such a major change was made this far after launch.

You realize it’s not that major a change, especially compared to what they did in GW1.
4.5 years after the launch of Nightfall they completely overhauled the Dervish class.
Then, 7 years after the launch of Prophecies, they changed Exhaustion into Overcast and rewrote half of the Elementalist spells to involve it to varying degrees, including benefiting from what was previously exclusively a negative effect.

This is NOTHING compared to either of those.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Sinsko.9342:

It just blows my mind that such a major change was made this far after launch.

You realize it’s not that major a change, especially compared to what they did in GW1.
4.5 years after the launch of Nightfall they completely overhauled the Dervish class.
Then, 7 years after the launch of Prophecies, they changed Exhaustion into Overcast and rewrote half of the Elementalist spells to involve it to varying degrees, including benefiting from what was previously exclusively a negative effect.

This is NOTHING compared to either of those.

“this is nothing compared to those”
wat
you realize that they are mentioning this game
not the previous one
nobody said that the previous game didn’t have it’s issues….
and it IS a major change
it changed the definition of stealth in PvE entirely from an aggro-dropping/controlling ability to a target-change-for-3-second-ability,while in PvP it can continue to function normally,(aside from pets which are already slowed by their natural issues)
this thread is to talk about THIS game’s mechanics….not GW1…..

Resetting aggro is helpful though. At least they don’t see through stealth, so that’s a benefit.

Columba.9730:

thieves can stay stealthed longer than 3 seconds though. So it’s a longer reset. It’s pretty neat to be able to reset aggro like that. I wish my classes could do that.

respond with constructive material please not oblivious banter that isn’t even relative or involved in too much sarcasm that nobody would understand what your own thoughts are

LOCO.1785:

Jammypack.3018:

Know what’s fun now? Using Cloak and Dagger on a mob, then positioning for a side strike and getting clubbed in the face and knocked down before you get your stealth attack in. This could be the worst “rebalancing” I’ve ever seen in a game that nobody even asked for. Good thing they buffed Krait though – that was a real eff’ing issue right there.

How am I meant to interpret this bolded part?

Because what you’ve said right here is not true. Mobs do not attack you while you’re in stealth. So you can still use C&D and backstab as per usual.

I know he amended that statement, but I’ve actually seen that problem since the patch. Mobs hitting a stealthed player has always been a problem with channeled skills, but I mean completely new skills that will start, lock onto me, and hit me after I should have been invisible.

I’m sure that it’s an unintentional side-effect from the new changes, but it’s annoying nevertheless.

99% of my gaming time is spent on a thief in pve. They’re definitely getting hit while stealthed. It doesn’t happen all the time or with every type of mob, but it’s happening. I don’t think the sky is falling or anything. I’m not too worried about the stealth on offense issues. It’s Hide in Shadows that’s endangered.

Part of the main reason I use stealth through HiS is escape and evasion, not killing things. If you’re still getting hit while you’re stealthed and you just healed when you activated the skill, then you end up coming out of stealth having gained no/little health and you still have aggro. If you happen to have picked up a crippling condition before or during your stealth, you’ve now got a very serious problem. There have been a couple of times when I’ve had to make a snap decision that I could no longer escape at the rate I’m losing HP and had to fight it out toe to toe.

Again, most of the time there’s no issue, but in areas with closely packed mobs that include slow/cripple/knockdown type effects, things get dicey quick and dodging doesn’t help when you just pick up more local aggro. I don’t use any of the other stealth defense tactics, but I imagine they suffer the same type of gimp. If the thief can’t escape effectively and stealth doesn’t help with aggro (in pve) or being untrackable (in wvw), then the thief needs more toughness/vitality and/or stealth in general needs needs to be rethought. Perhaps less focused on the concept of visibility and more on being untargetable or auto-miss (like blindness).