(edited by wolfpaq.7354)
Engineer Utility "Sneak Gyro" is outrageous
Personally, I think Shadow Refuge should remove the reveal debuff. Kind of odd that it does not.
As for Sneak Gyro you failed to mention that the gyro is always visible and destroying it ends its effect.
Also, Engineers need to give up actual useful Elites to counter two classes.
Ah ok, I didn’t realize that sneak gyro was an elite skill.
But as I said in my original post, the worst part of Sneak Gyro is Detection Pulse, which you didn’t bother responding to. Frankly I don’t blame you. It is disgustingly overpowered and completely ruins the most important class feature of the thief class.
We are 100% dependent on stealth for
-Condition removal
-Healing & survival
-Positioning & damage
There is zero counter play. It is a free 1800 circle of reveal with absolutely nothing a thief can do to stop it that totally removes all those aspects of the play from our class. Detection pulse needs to be massively nerfed. Cut the radius by 1/3rd and double the cooldown at minimum.
Ah ok, I didn’t realize that sneak gyro was an elite skill.
But as I said in my original post, the worst part of Sneak Gyro is Detection Pulse, which you didn’t bother responding to. Frankly I don’t blame you. It is disgustingly overpowered and completely ruins the most important class feature of the thief class.
We are 100% dependent on stealth for
-Condition removal
-Healing & survival
-Positioning & damageThere is zero counter play. It is a free 1800 circle of reveal with absolutely nothing a thief can do to stop it that totally removes all those aspects of the play from our class. Detection pulse needs to be massively nerfed. Cut the radius by 1/3rd and double the cooldown at minimum.
The counter play is destroy the drone.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Ah ok, I didn’t realize that sneak gyro was an elite skill.
But as I said in my original post, the worst part of Sneak Gyro is Detection Pulse, which you didn’t bother responding to. Frankly I don’t blame you. It is disgustingly overpowered and completely ruins the most important class feature of the thief class.
We are 100% dependent on stealth for
-Condition removal
-Healing & survival
-Positioning & damageThere is zero counter play. It is a free 1800 circle of reveal with absolutely nothing a thief can do to stop it that totally removes all those aspects of the play from our class. Detection pulse needs to be massively nerfed. Cut the radius by 1/3rd and double the cooldown at minimum.
so much talk like people are actually going to run this.
its bad in pvp. its bad in zerg. its not bad in roaming, but just like pvp, its not nearly as good as elixir x and supply drop which are effective against everyone, not just thieves.
does anyone run Goggles? No. And other than some roamers who give up the massively more useful other elite options, or someone who swaps to this to clear out a mesmer from a keep, this isnt going to see play after the first couple weeks of “oooh shiney”.
thieves don’t rate high enough on the meter of classes that matter to take an elite just for reveal.
SBI | Oceans | Ranger – Thief – Ele – Eng – Nec – Guard – Rev
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds
You know, considering how most of our defensively traits and skills depend on stealth, one could say we should heal/cure more with them and our CCs and so on hit harder.
Well, I wait for BWE3, release and first balance patch.
Ah ok, I didn’t realize that sneak gyro was an elite skill.
But as I said in my original post, the worst part of Sneak Gyro is Detection Pulse, which you didn’t bother responding to. Frankly I don’t blame you. It is disgustingly overpowered and completely ruins the most important class feature of the thief class.
We are 100% dependent on stealth for
-Condition removal
-Healing & survival
-Positioning & damageThere is zero counter play. It is a free 1800 circle of reveal with absolutely nothing a thief can do to stop it that totally removes all those aspects of the play from our class. Detection pulse needs to be massively nerfed. Cut the radius by 1/3rd and double the cooldown at minimum.
The counter play is destroy the drone.
That counters the stealth application, but I doubt it will reveal those already in stealth within when destroyed. I wonder if they get revealed by walking out like SR. But a short, huge radius 6s reveal is crazy. At this point I’d be fully open to completely scrapping stealth as is, and having it reworked >.<
I had enjoyed destroying stealth players, especially thieves, because I played the class for so long. They probably accused me of hax because I knew where they would be and what they would do. Learning how to counter a stealth player, and negating a lot of their advantage is a good thing. But forced hard counters that have the potential to completely shut down an entire play style? That I believe is going way too far. And engineer gets multiple ways to do so now. I wasn’t happy about herald’s but it was short range.. but this is going way too far in so many aspects.
thieves don’t rate high enough on the meter of classes that matter to take an elite just for reveal.
this makes me sad
:/
Dark Lotusblossom – 80 Thief
Bedroom Knights. [Sock]
Sea of Sorrows
Bedroom Knights. [Sock]
Sea of Sorrows
thieves don’t rate high enough on the meter of classes that matter to take an elite just for reveal.
this makes me sad
:/
It’s true. I main Engineer as it is, and thieves are the class that I fear the least. No way am I going to take this ability in SPVP. Especially when I have more effective ways of stealthing myself that don’t take up an elite slot.
Honestly, it’s only real use is going to be in WvW. Elixir X for moa or Mortar for combo fields are better in SPVP (Mortar 3 and 4 are awesome against thieves). Anything is better for PVE, especially since the drone is going to be visible and agro mobs, and reveal is useless in PVE.
In WvW, I will probably just have it running around with the group until I see red in the distance, then I will burst it, and we can gank. Or I will use it for 1 tick and burst it. Alternatively I will stealth myself only, run into range of the enemy zerg, and pop reveal to thwart any stealthed pushes. In a 1 on 1 situation against thieves though, forget it. I’d rather put down a smoke field and blast the crap out of it.
The counter play is destroy the drone.
That isn’t going to do anything to the Toolbelt skill that reveals stealth. There’s 0 counterplay to that.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
The counter play is destroy the drone.
Did you read my post at all? Destroying the drone does nothing. The BELT skill is unaffected. Detection pulse can still be cast every 20 seconds for a free 6 second reveal in a massive area.
The counter play is destroy the drone.
Did you read my post at all? Destroying the drone does nothing. The BELT skill is unaffected. Detection pulse can still be cast every 20 seconds for a free 6 second reveal in a massive area.
You’re forgetting the part where they can cast it twice with the dodge trait from tools just throwing that out there.
The counter play is destroy the drone.
And while we’re doing that, the Engineer will be busily destroying us.
A Thief would die before they killed the Drone. We’re too squishy to handle being hit by a single target.
The counter play is destroy the drone.
How do you do that from stealth without revealing yourself? Also, what’s to prevent him summoning it again in 30 seconds?
honestly though, I don’t give a kitten about PvP, I don’t give a kitten about how unbalanced this is in PvP, what I care about is how unbalanced this is in PvE, such a crazy useful utility option for sneaking past enemies.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
The counter play is destroy the drone.
So, the counter to the opponent’s Queen is to take their King? ;-P
The moment I see the Stealth Gyro appear, I’m whipping out my Shortbow and downing that thing ASAP.
For that 20s Cooldown, 900 AOE Range, 6s Reveal, good god that’s OP against Thieves. Use it at the start of a fight to kitten my 2-5 Stealth Stack, by the time I’m crippled and have to use Shadow Refuge, he’ll just do it again.
I’m counting the days to the next BWE to try out so new profession elite specs r… Once I’ve got my hands on something more satisfying then I’m switching mains.
Sorry lads n lass’, Thief ain’t for me after HoT unless we get some love.
https://www.twitch.tv/meepeYPlays
WvW Thief Aurora Glade – Mutli Bulid Streamer – 1PM – 4PM GMT, Mon – Fri
My Daredevil Build: The Defender!
WvW Thief Aurora Glade – Mutli Bulid Streamer – 1PM – 4PM GMT, Mon – Fri
My Daredevil Build: The Defender!
Personally, I think Shadow Refuge should remove the reveal debuff. Kind of odd that it does not. […]
[…] the worst part of Sneak Gyro is Detection Pulse, which you didn’t bother responding to. Frankly I don’t blame you. It is disgustingly overpowered and completely ruins the most important class feature of the thief class.
We are 100% dependent on stealth for
-Condition removal
-Healing & survival
-Positioning & damageThere is zero counter play. It is a free 1800 circle of reveal with absolutely nothing a thief can do to stop it that totally removes all those aspects of the play from our class. Detection pulse needs to be massively nerfed. Cut the radius by 1/3rd and double the cooldown at minimum.
Yeah, the amount of reveal being added to the game with HoT is crazy, thieves should have a counter play against reveal, as wolfpaq.7354 mentioned many of their skills need stealth such as Stealth Attacks and Traits benefits.
[…] Also, Engineers need to give up actual useful Elites to counter two classes.
Yes, they can choose another elite, but the toolbelt skill from this elite is very strong against a thief that relies a lot from hide and also you can’t foresee what the enemy is going to pick for their skills.
[…] As for Sneak Gyro you failed to mention that the gyro is always visible and destroying it ends its effect. […]
The counter play is destroy the drone.
The amount of stealth other classes are getting is not so important since a lot of reveal is being added to the game, also destroying the drone only fixes the gaining stealth part, they can still use their massive reveal from their toolbelt.
Normally I’m one to think that the “thief is terrible” QQ I see on the forums is pretty exaggerated. But holy cow this skill seems super un-fun to play against. That 900 radius is just ridiculous. And the 30/20s cd doesn’t make it any better.
Even if this skill doesn’t make it into the meta (which I doubt it will in PvP). Pairing up against the few folks who occasionally choose to use it will be absolutely terrible. Any comp with 2+ thieves is already pretty sub-optimal. With this skill released any 2+ thief comp against a team with an engi’s is going to lead to a extremely annoying match.
(edited by Midi.8359)
Oh and our ranged weapon(s) has a maximum range of 900 as far as I’m aware.
(Well 900+240 – so 1340 – if done perfectly on a cluster bomb, just hope they don’t move…)
The fact that it can be used TWICE with “Kinetic Battery*” is just crazy. You can effectively shut down any stealth effect in the area for 12 seconds.
In high skill-cap tourneys where clutch fights are greatly affected by successful SR-resses, I don’t see how any opponent engi would give up such counterplay. Granted, Elixir X is very very good and you’d have to spec into Scrapper traitline just to utilitize Sneak Gyro (lets not kid ourselves, rest of the gyros are quite subpar — along with the traitline)… but the potential counterplay on a 20 second cooldown is crazy good.
The fact that it can be used TWICE with “Kinetic Battery*” is just crazy. You can effectively shut down any stealth effect in the area for 12 seconds.
In high skill-cap tourneys where clutch fights are greatly affected by successful SR-resses, I don’t see how any opponent engi would give up such counterplay. Granted, Elixir X is very very good and you’d have to spec into Scrapper traitline just to utilitize Sneak Gyro (lets not kid ourselves, rest of the gyros are quite subpar — along with the traitline)… but the potential counterplay on a 20 second cooldown is crazy good.
Engineers don’t have enough of a problem with thieves to justify slotting this. Elixir X and Mortar are both far better uses of that elite slot.
That isn’t going to do anything to the Toolbelt skill that reveals stealth. There’s 0 counterplay to that.
Did you read my post at all? Destroying the drone does nothing. The BELT skill is unaffected. Detection pulse can still be cast every 20 seconds for a free 6 second reveal in a massive area.
It has a cast time and a pretty obvious animation (assuming the puls actually reveals when it reaches the players, not instantly in the whole radius). Pretty much everything in GW2 is dodgeable, why shouldn’t this be? And forcing a dodge on stealthed players once every 20sec isn’t game breaking for them. It probably would be more useful to lock someone down and use this to prevent them from stealthing. In this case however, you’re wasting time you could use to dps or chain CC so it’s a tradeoff.
Tl;dr: guess it’s dodgeable, ergo not as op as people think.
What really sucks is that good Engi’s are saying that they wont even take the Sneak Gyro. They’re happy with the Box Drop or the Elixer. Fair play if you think the Gyro isn’t great.
However, BAD Engi’s who struggle or dislike Thieves will take the Sneak Gyro and now they have the 1-button-press-go-kitten-yourself-anti-Thief ability. Now the bad Engi’s will be able to beat Thieves with another dumb thing that takes out the skill factor and keeps it to a “who’s build is better” orientation.
The skill ceiling keeps getting lower and lower for other Professions where as the bar of requirement for Thieves gets higher and higher. We slowly become a class which is either 100% Glass Cannon so we can 1 shot on a luck based percentage outcome, some form of Trap Bunker Condi or going to the cheesiest of builds in the “Ghost Thief” build (No idea what the “Ghost Thief” is? Click here, sorry for the blatant stream plug).
https://www.twitch.tv/meepeYPlays
WvW Thief Aurora Glade – Mutli Bulid Streamer – 1PM – 4PM GMT, Mon – Fri
My Daredevil Build: The Defender!
WvW Thief Aurora Glade – Mutli Bulid Streamer – 1PM – 4PM GMT, Mon – Fri
My Daredevil Build: The Defender!
That isn’t going to do anything to the Toolbelt skill that reveals stealth. There’s 0 counterplay to that.
Did you read my post at all? Destroying the drone does nothing. The BELT skill is unaffected. Detection pulse can still be cast every 20 seconds for a free 6 second reveal in a massive area.
It has a cast time and a pretty obvious animation (assuming the puls actually reveals when it reaches the players, not instantly in the whole radius). Pretty much everything in GW2 is dodgeable, why shouldn’t this be? And forcing a dodge on stealthed players once every 20sec isn’t game breaking for them. It probably would be more useful to lock someone down and use this to prevent them from stealthing. In this case however, you’re wasting time you could use to dps or chain CC so it’s a tradeoff.
Tl;dr: guess it’s dodgeable, ergo not as op as people think.
I disagree. I was under the interpretation that the skill, yes had no cd link to the stealth gyro, but was available once you summon the gyro. Similar to the way turrets have a new tool belt skill. An engie can already place a damage aoe to use lock on if a their were to come in melee range. Analyze is an instant skill. This skill just gives the engie more cover reveal for the other sources.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Losing 3/4 of your health bar to a thief or mesmer or indeed and engineer before even seeing your opponent is not fun.
Just my opinion but – stealth is annoying and the more counters to it the better.
THEN – classes that rely on stealth will need buffing in more interesting ways.
IMO this is good for the game.
The counter play is destroy the drone.
That isn’t going to do anything to the Toolbelt skill that reveals stealth. There’s 0 counterplay to that.
There is this little thing called dodge, and thieves can do a lot of it…:) The skill does have a 3/4s cast time. Of course, like all skills used from stealth, it is impossible to dodge if you cant see it (maybe give it some kind of noise as a tell?)
Also, I suspect that a lot of thieves will be taking DD with S/D like their old glory days.
The Sneak Gyro is a great utility for pvp: you get all of the benefits of aoe stealth: prevent stomps, secure resses, set up team-burst instagib, plus the reveal (this might be the first time there is counterplay to enemy instagib attempts that win so many high-level matches.
They MIGHT have to make the sneak gryo apply revealed if it is killed (not detonated) to allow some more counterplay.
Overall, I think both tanky and bursty engies are going to want to take this.
Losing 3/4 of your health bar to a thief or mesmer or indeed and engineer before even seeing your opponent is not fun.
Just my opinion but – stealth is annoying and the more counters to it the better.
THEN – classes that rely on stealth will need buffing in more interesting ways.
IMO this is good for the game.
This actually sums up the complained about problem… (Besides the idiotic one of “STEALTHZORS” from that people that are too but hurt to articulate themselves)
Like from the perspective of the guy getting 3/4 of their health dropped, yeah it’s not fun – but at the same time they’re not thinking about why the ganker is doing only that, or what the ganker has or doesn’t have (that kind of leads him into only doing that, ganking like so). Maybe if the guy getting his health dropped understood the other side, he would be okay with it or realize that there’s a deeper problem than just the gank that happened to him……
And yeah, there will need to be buffing in interesting ways – the things is bud, that we really can’t hold our breaths for any longer, that is if anyone is still holding.
Losing 3/4 of your health bar to a thief or mesmer or indeed and engineer before even seeing your opponent is not fun.
Just my opinion but – stealth is annoying and the more counters to it the better.
THEN – classes that rely on stealth will need buffing in more interesting ways.
IMO this is good for the game.
Classes? There is one class that relies on stealth and that’s the thief. So where’s our corresponding buffs?? The elite specialization where we are the only class in the game that has to give up our grandmaster trait for the spec power? With horribly implemented dodge replacements and terrible copy paste hammer animations?
I don’t think so. We are getting shafted in this expansion unless something major happens in the next month.
Well, that Gyro is a perma shadow refuge mark
people will throw all the aoes in there, at least SR disappare with 10+ seconds stealth on you.
they can only stack 5 sec if they want the gyro to be gone.
I can already see in WvW zergs being covered in stealth by like 3-4 engies…
Losing 3/4 of your health bar to a thief or mesmer or indeed and engineer before even seeing your opponent is not fun.
Just my opinion but – stealth is annoying and the more counters to it the better.
THEN – classes that rely on stealth will need buffing in more interesting ways.
IMO this is good for the game.
Mesmer won’t care at all even if there was literally perma reveal everywhere they don’t rely on stealth it’s just extra and utility.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread
The Dhuumfire thread
With all the reveal being passed around, isn’t it high time we had, as “masters of stealth” a trait that lets us, you know, cleanse revealed?
Or hey, fun idea, how about just dropping revealed applications from leaving stealth altogether, only self-apply reveal if we actually use a stealth attack, and spread all the reveal around to people’s skills in stead. Now people can feel good about having a “reveal the stealther” button, but thieves can still actually use the Shadow Arts traits?
Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
With all the reveal being passed around, isn’t it high time we had, as “masters of stealth” a trait that lets us, you know, cleanse revealed?
Or hey, fun idea, how about just dropping revealed applications from leaving stealth altogether, only self-apply reveal if we actually use a stealth attack, and spread all the reveal around to people’s skills in stead. Now people can feel good about having a “reveal the stealther” button, but thieves can still actually use the Shadow Arts traits?
Too much work.
Easier to tweak a couple of numbers and call it a day.
of course, the natural enemy is always OP.
If ya no longer see me after this post,
it means THEY got me for " neg criticism in clever disguise".
Know that it has been fun and I love ya all.
it means THEY got me for " neg criticism in clever disguise".
Know that it has been fun and I love ya all.
Losing 3/4 of your health bar to a thief or mesmer or indeed and engineer before even seeing your opponent is not fun.
Just my opinion but – stealth is annoying and the more counters to it the better.
THEN – classes that rely on stealth will need buffing in more interesting ways.
IMO this is good for the game.
Classes? There is one class that relies on stealth and that’s the thief. So where’s our corresponding buffs?? The elite specialization where we are the only class in the game that has to give up our grandmaster trait for the spec power? With horribly implemented dodge replacements and terrible copy paste hammer animations?
I don’t think so. We are getting shafted in this expansion unless something major happens in the next month.
Yeah I don’t desagree… What I’m saying is, over the course of time, personally, I’d like to see Thieves become more interesting to play and play against by being less reliant on stealth. If stealth becomes easy to counter and thieves start being under powered as a result for a while… Anet will need to give thieves something else to bring them back up… hopefull something really cool!
Losing 3/4 of your health bar to a thief or mesmer or indeed and engineer before even seeing your opponent is not fun.
Just my opinion but – stealth is annoying and the more counters to it the better.
THEN – classes that rely on stealth will need buffing in more interesting ways.
IMO this is good for the game.
Mesmer won’t care at all even if there was literally perma reveal everywhere they don’t rely on stealth it’s just extra and utility.
I know what you’re saying but part of what makes Mesmer so potent is the surprise opening from stealth…
Engi can do some pretty devasting stealth openers too…
Would certainly help mess that up for them a bit… but yeah, Thief will feel it worse…
Losing 3/4 of your health bar to a thief or mesmer or indeed and engineer before even seeing your opponent is not fun.
Just my opinion but – stealth is annoying and the more counters to it the better.
THEN – classes that rely on stealth will need buffing in more interesting ways.
IMO this is good for the game.
Classes? There is one class that relies on stealth and that’s the thief. So where’s our corresponding buffs?? The elite specialization where we are the only class in the game that has to give up our grandmaster trait for the spec power? With horribly implemented dodge replacements and terrible copy paste hammer animations?
I don’t think so. We are getting shafted in this expansion unless something major happens in the next month.
Yeah I don’t desagree… What I’m saying is, over the course of time, personally, I’d like to see Thieves become more interesting to play and play against by being less reliant on stealth. If stealth becomes easy to counter and thieves start being under powered as a result for a while… Anet will need to give thieves something else to bring them back up… hopefull something really cool!
You know, the thought occurs to me.
In GW1, when they designed assassin, they purposely did so without implementing stealth as a mechanic. Their reasoning? It was hell to balance. Assassins were still really good at being bursty hit and run characters with fun to play mechanics due to mobility and unique combo chains.
In GW2 we lost a great deal of that mobility and the durability we could have obtained in the old assassin design through multiclassing. In return we got stealth and stealth attacks.
The exact reasons GW1 assassins didn’t have stealth are the same reasons thieves are in the sorry shape we are in.
You want to hand out stealth and reveal like candy? Fine! However, if we’re still going to me “the masters of stealth” our stealth defenses line needs to be more of an asset and less of a crutch.
Currently, it’s a crutch, and one that’s becoming increasingly less good at supporting the class.
Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Errr? dissengage when you see the pulse and re engage when revealed is gone?
Its not like the thief is lacking in the dissengaging/mobility deparment.
The term Exploit means nothing in GW2 –
Vials Maize Balm Exploit(Halloween) 2014
Locked out of JP (Wintersday) 2015
Vials Maize Balm Exploit(Halloween) 2014
Locked out of JP (Wintersday) 2015
In GW1, when they designed assassin, they purposely did so without implementing stealth as a mechanic. Their reasoning? It was hell to balance. Assassins were still really good at being bursty hit and run characters with fun to play mechanics due to mobility and unique combo chains.
Assassins were awesomely designed, and what I thought I would be getting from Thief in GW2 originally. I would gladly sacrifice Shortbow #5 and every source of stealth if we could be a lot more like Assassins from GW1.
In GW1, when they designed assassin, they purposely did so without implementing stealth as a mechanic. Their reasoning? It was hell to balance. Assassins were still really good at being bursty hit and run characters with fun to play mechanics due to mobility and unique combo chains.
Assassins were awesomely designed, and what I thought I would be getting from Thief in GW2 originally. I would gladly sacrifice Shortbow #5 and every source of stealth if we could be a lot more like Assassins from GW1.
They gotten beaten to a pulp by the nerf bat too you know…
In GW1, when they designed assassin, they purposely did so without implementing stealth as a mechanic. Their reasoning? It was hell to balance. Assassins were still really good at being bursty hit and run characters with fun to play mechanics due to mobility and unique combo chains.
Assassins were awesomely designed, and what I thought I would be getting from Thief in GW2 originally. I would gladly sacrifice Shortbow #5 and every source of stealth if we could be a lot more like Assassins from GW1.
They gotten beaten to a pulp by the nerf bat too you know…
Yeah, but the difference is that they started out OP and actually got balanced, in stad of starting out slightly overtuned and ending up completely worthless.
Ditto for dervs, paragons, rits, IWAY, bear form, and pretty much everything that really was a balance problem in that game for any length of time.
Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
I liked what Huang said about stealth on the twitch stream.
Irenio: Stealth is something that you haven’t really been able to counter, its just been a one sided opportunity for whoever can stealth
Rubi: I don like stealth to be countered
Irenio: Yeah, people who have stealth always say that
Like he said, a lot of you thieves want to protect stealth from being countered at all but really it gives a huge advantage in any battle when you are helpless to stop it.
Also, hopefully anet can buff thieves in other areas that are needed so they aren’t so reliant on it anymore.
I liked what Huang said about stealth on the twitch stream.
Irenio: Stealth is something that you haven’t really been able to counter, its just been a one sided opportunity for whoever can stealth
Rubi: I don like stealth to be countered
Irenio: Yeah, people who have stealth always say thatLike he said, a lot of you thieves want to protect stealth from being countered at all but really it gives a huge advantage in any battle when you are helpless to stop it.
Also, hopefully anet can buff thieves in other areas that are needed so they aren’t so reliant on it anymore.
We want to keep Stealth not easily turned off by the press of a button because our only Core meaningful source of condition removal, healing and damage reduction is WHILE IN STEALTH. Nobody cares about opportunity. They care about not being ripped to shreds in an instant because of the low health pool, medium armor and no decent source of defensive boons.
The answer is NOT to just give people the ability to “stop Thieves doing anything” with a utility skill. It’s to rebalance Thief abilities so that Stealth isn’t something we need to rely on as a crutch to survive more than 5 seconds in a team fight.
Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief
Resident Thief
I liked what Huang said about stealth on the twitch stream.
Irenio: Stealth is something that you haven’t really been able to counter, its just been a one sided opportunity for whoever can stealth
Rubi: I don like stealth to be countered
Irenio: Yeah, people who have stealth always say thatLike he said, a lot of you thieves want to protect stealth from being countered at all but really it gives a huge advantage in any battle when you are helpless to stop it.
Also, hopefully anet can buff thieves in other areas that are needed so they aren’t so reliant on it anymore.
I don’t trust their PvP they balance around golems and duel between each other. They don’t suck but there are not a good point of view. They are hardcoutering thief not stealth.
Instant reveals are proof.
Edit: They chose to boost mesmer stealth and give other classes stealth capabilities his argument is completely invalid.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread
The Dhuumfire thread
(edited by Sagat.3285)
The answer is NOT to just give people the ability to “stop Thieves doing anything” with a utility skill. It’s to rebalance Thief abilities so that Stealth isn’t something we need to rely on as a crutch to survive more than 5 seconds in a team fight.
Like I said in my last sentence I’m all for rebalancing thief abilities, cause I know they are pigeonholed into it but stealth is still something that had to be touched on to become better countered at some point.
I liked what Huang said about stealth on the twitch stream.
Irenio: Stealth is something that you haven’t really been able to counter, its just been a one sided opportunity for whoever can stealth
Rubi: I don like stealth to be countered
Irenio: Yeah, people who have stealth always say thatLike he said, a lot of you thieves want to protect stealth from being countered at all but really it gives a huge advantage in any battle when you are helpless to stop it.
Also, hopefully anet can buff thieves in other areas that are needed so they aren’t so reliant on it anymore.
Thieves: Reveal is something that you haven’t really been able to counter, its just been a one sided opportunity for whoever can Reveal
Penguin: I don like reveal to be countered
Thieves: Yeah, people who have reveal always say that
Explain to me the counterplay against reveal. It is literally a debuff that turns off its counterplay.
Thieves are stealth reliant by nature of our defensive traits, HP, and armor class until DD comes out.
Every other source of stealth in the game is granted to classes that Don’t lose anything but stealth when they are revealed.
When a stealth-specced thief loses stealth, he loses his ability to cleanse conditions, his damage mitigation, and his ability to deal meaningful damage.
We don’t merely lose stealth as any other class granted stealth does.
We lose an entire trait line, and there is no counter play to prevent it
Every source of outside stealth reveal can not be evaded, blocked, or otherwise countered. They are “hit button apply cripling win-making debuff that lasts two or three times as long as a stun and can not be broken”
The only exception is the engi lock on trait, which is completely fair as it has counterplay in that the thief can actually evade, reflect, block, or otherwise not be hit by the engi’s attacks to prevent it.
Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
The answer is NOT to just give people the ability to “stop Thieves doing anything” with a utility skill. It’s to rebalance Thief abilities so that Stealth isn’t something we need to rely on as a crutch to survive more than 5 seconds in a team fight.
Like I said in my last sentence I’m all for rebalancing thief abilities, cause I know they are pigeonholed into it but stealth is still something that had to be touched on to become better countered at some point.
They are too lazy for that they proved it even if it did it should have happened before any non self revealed came into the game.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread
The Dhuumfire thread
How about we just change all of our “while in stealth” traits to “when you are revealed” instead. So SRej becomes “gain 1200 health and 2 initiative when you leave stealth or are revealed.” SE becomes “lose 2 conditions when you leave stealth or gain revealed.” The leaving stealth part is there so that if it expires naturally, you still gain benefit from it.
How about we just change all of our “while in stealth” traits to “when you are revealed” instead. So SRej becomes “gain 1200 health and 2 initiative when you leave stealth or are revealed.” SE becomes “lose 2 conditions when you leave stealth or gain revealed.” The leaving stealth part is there so that if it expires naturally, you still gain benefit from it.
I’ve spoke on that a while ago on a decently big thread, coming from necro that would be bad you can receive infinite damage or conditions while revealed so no.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread
The Dhuumfire thread
The answer is NOT to just give people the ability to “stop Thieves doing anything” with a utility skill. It’s to rebalance Thief abilities so that Stealth isn’t something we need to rely on as a crutch to survive more than 5 seconds in a team fight.
I completely agree, reveal is not a big deal if 4-5 builds were viable when playing a thief. I don’t want d/p to be our only competitive option . What we need is s/d, p/d, p/p and shortbow competitive builds. More viable builds means more different counters, and more different counters means a place for every build to be effective.
Thief will be balanced when there will be more than one meta build.
an idea out of nowhere: why not make a critical defense trait in the critical strike trait line ? something like: if you criti, blocks attack for 2 sec with an internal cooldown of 6-8 sec. wouldn’t that make criti trait line nice to play (again) ?
(edited by Wargameur.6950)