Guild Wars 2

dat forum bug though… i wonder if it will ever get fixed

Karl McLain.5604:

There will be a couple of changes to items stolen mainly from players (though these do exist in PvE as well). This is mostly out of necessity due to the changes with Improvisation and in how you’re able to use a stolen item multiple times. Some examples:
The necro fear skull is going from 3 seconds maximum, to 2 seconds maximum. The guardian mace daze will be reduced from 4 to 3 seconds for daze. The ranger’s Healing Seed will have a reduced duration (10s -> 5s), but pulse twice as fast (2s pulse -> 1s pulse).

Gotta say I really don’t love the idea of nerfing stolen items to accommodate one new trait.

Consider this: What if after you use necro skull (Skull Fear) you have another item called Preserved Skull which is what is left after the magic is used. Preserved Skull is a ranged attack with a 1 sec taunt.

Maybe after you use Mace Headcrack you are left with Mace Handle (you know cause the mace head broke in use). Mace Handle dazes for 3 seconds.

After using healing seed you could have a Imbued Branch which would be an aoe regeneration.

The beauty of this is that all of the new skills that you add could be added as new stolen objects and environmental weapons.

Wait let me try one more before I go… Consume Plasma. After use turns into Plasma Burp all allies within 300 units gain all boons for 5 seconds. Please consider.

Can someone explain to me why this should be an improvement ?
I now have to bind an additonal key, the mechanic itself is the same as ever.

If i now have a stolen item and steal is off c/d i can use it and instantly steal again, this will not change anything…

And where is replacing an improvement ?
Now you just use the stolen item and steal again, that’s completely fine – i don’t get where this should be an improvement…. enlighten me please.

Not really, if you play only pve then you don’t need the change, but in pvp and wvw this is really good, even if you have to keybind another key.
Using warrior’s elite can get me killed in some cases, so I usually use it when I’m stealthed and far away, but how many times can I do that? Not often, so I miss out on my steal because using the elite would kill me.

Jana.6831:

Not really, if you play only pve then you don’t need the change, but in pvp and wvw this is really good, even if you have to keybind another key.
Using warrior’s elite can get me killed in some cases, so I usually use it when I’m stealthed and far away, but how many times can I do that? Not often, so I miss out on my steal because using the elite would kill me.

Are you serious ???
Never heard that using ANY weapon-abiliity (eg. autoattack) while whirling warrior’s axe will immediatly stop the skill ? Perhaps you should not play so much pve ….

lvis.3824:

Jana.6831:

Not really, if you play only pve then you don’t need the change, but in pvp and wvw this is really good, even if you have to keybind another key.
Using warrior’s elite can get me killed in some cases, so I usually use it when I’m stealthed and far away, but how many times can I do that? Not often, so I miss out on my steal because using the elite would kill me.

Are you serious ???
Never heard that using ANY abiliity while whirling warrior’s axe will immediatly stop the skill ? Perhaps you should not play so much pve ….

No, I haven’t.
But still you have enginer’s goo which prevents stealthing, healing seed which reveals your position and all other stuff you need to get rid of before you can do what you initially wanted to do.
Not saying the stolen skills are useless, they’re just not useful in every situation.
So, if you’re a pro player who never needs to drop a bundle, then this change is bad for you, I agree – another keybind is really too much.

Edit: Btw thanks for pointing that out – I still can’t do everything I want if I hold that bundle, but I can get rid of it way faster.

DarkSyze.8627:

It will be change when it is serious action

" Taking Serious Action Creates Explosive Results "

Arena net: it is time for Explosive Results from thief profession!!

And last time anet took serious action, everyone’s free kills switched professions.

Anyone else bothered by the fact that there is a trait that makes a single skill/mechanic +100% more effective (1 use changes to 2 uses)?

Doesn’t that seem like a balancing issue waiting to happen?

Either it’s likely to be UP without the trait if it’s balanced with it …

… or it’s likely to be OP with the trait if it’s balance without it …

Hey all,
A heads up: we’re adding an F2U button for the items that you (thieves) steal from enemies.
With the way that stolen items exist, it’s not always the best option to use your stolen item instantly, but often you have to dump it in order to gain access to Steal again along with the rest of functionalities you are used to because we have no idea how to balance Thief so be grateful — we’re doing the best we can.

As a quality-of-life change, you’ll now steal from an enemy and see the stolen item in the F2U slot, while FMe will show Steal and its current cooldown. If you steal again without using the stolen item, it will be replaced/overwritten by the new one.

We weren’t able to show this on the core specialization livestream because we’re still not done nerfing the stolen items to the ground, but wanted to pass the message on so that it’s not just a bomb drop when the core specialization changes happen (when they’re ready) and instead with will be like a tear gas that will make every one QQ.

Cheers,
-Kurlz

/endsatire

Sebrent.3625:

Anyone else bothered by the fact that there is a trait that makes a single skill/mechanic +100% more effective (1 use changes to 2 uses)?

Doesn’t that seem like a balancing issue waiting to happen?

Either it’s likely to be UP without the trait if it’s balanced with it …

… or it’s likely to be OP with the trait if it’s balance without it …

This has been a looming concern of mine. While I see the healing seed change as a buff as it helps with burst cleansing more, I question how well the skills themselves can be made balanced with and without this trait.

So remove stealing daze from guardians…in HoT guardians do not have any daze so its not right to steal something that guardians do not have. You can’t steal money from someone who don’t even have it.

Ragnarox.9601:

So remove stealing daze from guardians…in HoT guardians do not have any daze so its not right to steal something that guardians do not have. You can’t steal money from someone who don’t even have it.

The stolen skill is a Mace. Guardians can use Maces. Why can’t I smash you over the head with it to daze you?

Besides, Guardians are already pretty much the hard counter to Thieves and that will only get worse with HoT. They’ll be juuuuuust fine.

Auesis.7301:

Ragnarox.9601:

So remove stealing daze from guardians…in HoT guardians do not have any daze so its not right to steal something that guardians do not have. You can’t steal money from someone who don’t even have it.

The stolen skill is a Mace. Guardians can use Maces. Why can’t I smash you over the head with it to daze you?

Besides, Guardians are already pretty much the hard counter to Thieves and that will only get worse with HoT. They’ll be juuuuuust fine.

We don’t have mace daze…so stealing something that we dont have is plain stupid.

Ragnarox.9601:

We don’t have mace daze…so stealing something that we dont have is plain stupid.

I do wonder if other classes get the same amount of prematury hate.

The stuff we steal is to compensate for things we lack to fight against the class we steal from. Doesn’t matter whether or not you have daze. It has always been like that.

Ragnarox.9601:

We don’t have mace daze…so stealing something that we dont have is plain stupid.

On the other hand, my thief isn’t trained in the ways of the guardian. So, what’s a poor thief to do with this hunk of metal he liberated from the strange brute? Answer: Bonk someone over the head with it.

Actually, I like the way you think. We should make this more “real.” Instead of the steal we have we’ll take your off hand “off your hands.” We’ll gain a skill from the weapon and then drop it. You lose access to it until you pick it up. Elementalists lose an element and engies lose a toolkit/gadget/whatnot.
/sarcasm

You guys could steal “Shield of Judgment” from us, one of our best and defining skills. No joke. Would had said Shield of Wrath, that would be funny for you guys to have, but we have it on 45 seconds CD so wouldn’t make sense.

Thing is, you guys steal Whirling Axe from warriors, and that’s a legit warrior weapon skill. Head Mace Crack doesn’t fit the criteria.

Awesome! Now change/remove the Last Refuge trait…

Animag.7634:

Awesome! Now change/remove the Last Refuge trait…

Had to log in to plus one this.

Ragnarox.9601:

Auesis.7301:

Ragnarox.9601:

So remove stealing daze from guardians…in HoT guardians do not have any daze so its not right to steal something that guardians do not have. You can’t steal money from someone who don’t even have it.

The stolen skill is a Mace. Guardians can use Maces. Why can’t I smash you over the head with it to daze you?

Besides, Guardians are already pretty much the hard counter to Thieves and that will only get worse with HoT. They’ll be juuuuuust fine.

We don’t have mace daze…so stealing something that we dont have is plain stupid.

You have a mace, and that’s the point. The Thief isn’t stealing your skills from your brain. That would be stupid. The whole point is to improvise with what you grab. Spin to win with an axe you take, plant a seed you find, consume left-behind essence, bash with a mace you find, shank with a shard of ice left from a spell, whatever. We aren’t diving in to your head, learning how you do things and copying it. We’re grabbing something from you and doing what we can with it, because we’re not you.

Are you seriously going to complain about Thief getting a melee range daze from a mace stolen from a Guardian?!

How about you talk to Mesmers who have somehow had an ectoplasm stolen from God only knows where that gives the Thief every boon in the game … really high up-time on most of them when traited for the lowest Steal cd. Mesmer doesn’t have ectoplasm at all … nor a way to get every boon in the game, unlike Guardian.

Let’s not nitpick stupid things and focus on more important things like balance.

Why don’t you give Thieves f2 to steal Moa from mesmers or Lich form from necros and you can have Merciful intervention from guardians or you can steal our traps or consecrations or just steal a shield skills – thats a good one.

Sebrent.3625:

Anyone else bothered by the fact that there is a trait that makes a single skill/mechanic +100% more effective (1 use changes to 2 uses)?

Doesn’t that seem like a balancing issue waiting to happen?

Either it’s likely to be UP without the trait if it’s balanced with it …

… or it’s likely to be OP with the trait if it’s balance without it …

Agreed. I thought they’ve learned their lesson when they merged many of those “x2 effectiveness-traits” into baseline for many classes, but this change seems to be quite the opposite direction. It’ll be very hard to balance those stolen skills.

#MakeDoubleStealBaseline (?) :p

Either that with the proposed “nerfs” for stolen skills, or keep it at max x1 usage but buff some of the weaker ones.

:| Honestly, I’m slightly lazy and not really going to read this post in it’s entirety…

But yeah, could you please submit your nerf requests on this forum post, specifically made for nerf requests:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Nerf-Wish-list/

We’re not asking for a nerf, Zero Day … at least not those that have most recently posted.

Instead, we’re discussing how ArenaNet needs to stop having traits that increase the effectiveness of skills/mechanics by +100% as it leads to the scenarios mentioned where either the skill/mechanic is UP without the trait (since balanced around having the trait) or the skill/mechanic is OP with the trait (since balanced around not having the trait).

Someone could try to say "but it could be balanced around +50% effectiveness … in which case it would be both as it’d be UP without that +50% it was balanced around and it would be OP with +100% given how that’s double the increase it was balanced around.

Sebrent.3625:

We’re not asking for a nerf, Zero Day … at least not those that have most recently posted.

Instead, we’re discussing how ArenaNet needs to stop having traits that increase the effectiveness of skills/mechanics by +100% as it leads to the scenarios mentioned where either the skill/mechanic is UP without the trait (since balanced around having the trait) or the skill/mechanic is OP with the trait (since balanced around not having the trait).

Someone could try to say "but it could be balanced around +50% effectiveness … in which case it would be both as it’d be UP without that +50% it was balanced around and it would be OP with +100% given how that’s double the increase it was balanced around.

No matter what they do, it will always be OP when traited. It is a bad idea. They should just leave this alone than releasing a trait that everyone knows that will cause huge headache.

Just look at the number of things they have to rebalance to make this “2x uses” to work — it’s a waste of development time — it’s like Venom Aura all over again; nerfing venom to balance around the shared venom.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sebrent.3625:

We’re not asking for a nerf, Zero Day … at least not those that have most recently posted.

Instead, we’re discussing how ArenaNet needs to stop having traits that increase the effectiveness of skills/mechanics by +100% as it leads to the scenarios mentioned where either the skill/mechanic is UP without the trait (since balanced around having the trait) or the skill/mechanic is OP with the trait (since balanced around not having the trait).

Someone could try to say "but it could be balanced around +50% effectiveness … in which case it would be both as it’d be UP without that +50% it was balanced around and it would be OP with +100% given how that’s double the increase it was balanced around.

No matter what they do, it will always be OP when traited. It is a bad idea. They should just leave this alone than releasing a trait that everyone knows that will cause huge headache.

Just look at the number of things they have to rebalance to make this “2x uses” to work — it’s a waste of development time — it’s like Venom Aura all over again; nerfing venom to balance around the shared venom.

Yeah, this is how it’s going to be. Maybe they can move the steal reduction of SoH into baseline (to maybe 25 seconds). Untraited steal is going to be even more mediocre now. It’s going to be the exact situation that they said they didn’t want where untraited skills are crap until traited.