Guild Wars 2

Well, D/D is getting a big shot in the Dec 10th patch. I am not gonna complain and cry about it as theres nothing i can do. I’ll just say the theif was the class that explained my whole playstyle and i had the most fun with this class. Well i just have to get the most of my theif before Dec 10th since this will completely destroy 0/30/30/10/0 builds.So yeah thx anet for lettin me having this epic time with my theif. I might switch to another class tho i don’t like other classes playstyle or basically i am gonna leave the game. Heh some of you guys may think i am just overreacting to this patch and at one point i do agree, its just too sad for me to see the nerf and to see my fav playstyle dead and also guys i am not a perma stealth theif. Therefore, thx anet and also thx GW2 community. FAREWELL GUYS

Tell me one thing from upcoming patch notes that makes d/d fail more then it does now. Initiative back on crits nerfed, but base initiative regen boosted from 0.75/s to 1/s. Infusion o shadow change dont change x/d besides the fact that u wont get 2 initiative extra on every stealth skill used while being in stealth allready (for example hide in shadows or blinding powder used directly after CnD). So no, D/D isnt getting a big shot, D/P does and rightfully.

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

S/D and D/P got nerfed.

Op relax in regards to dd not much will change. Dp will be affected the most with the infusion o shadow change though even after patch dp will still be better better than dd and still be the thiefs strongest set.

Dude d/d is getting a buff if anything. 33% more init regain. We MAY be able to drop the +2 initiative on stealth for the condi clear on stealth now. It will be OP if we can do that.

Yusei.1370:

Well, D/D is getting a big shot in the Dec 10th patch. I am not gonna complain and cry about it as theres nothing i can do. I’ll just say the theif was the class that explained my whole playstyle and i had the most fun with this class. Well i just have to get the most of my theif before Dec 10th since this will completely destroy 0/30/30/10/0 builds.So yeah thx anet for lettin me having this epic time with my theif. I might switch to another class tho i don’t like other classes playstyle or basically i am gonna leave the game. Heh some of you guys may think i am just overreacting to this patch and at one point i do agree, its just too sad for me to see the nerf and to see my fav playstyle dead and also guys i am not a perma stealth theif. Therefore, thx anet and also thx GW2 community. FAREWELL GUYS

Huh? D/D isn’t impacted all that much and may in fact be stronger. It is D/P that just got smacked in the face by the nerf bat. S/D evades are the other that will be hurt.

Even though everyone else has said it, D/D didn’t get nerfed, you were never able to stack stealth with it legitimately like D/P, if anything it got buffed…true DD thieves UNITE

Your D/D didn’t get nerfed, but goodbye.

Wut? D/D is untouched.

Bye, I guess.

If OP didn’t realise d/d is pretty much improved as of Dec 10 then he was:

1. Actually d/p perma stealth but too ashamed to admit it
2. A fotm style part timer running around ganking upped lowbies with some googled build
3. Or just a bad

Either one, he aint no thief

I thought D/D was all we were going to have left. :o

I’m playing DD and i see only buff insteaf of nerf. but, yes, goodbye, please send to me your stuff before you leave =) even candy corn^^

D/D thieves did not get buffed. The .25 increase per second in init regen gives us 1 more init every 4 seconds, which means we can do an extra CnD every 24 seconds. Considering how fast your life drops as a D/D thief, you’re most likely already running for your life when that 24 second mark rolls around and your target isn’t dead yet.

Not only that, the increase is negated by the huge nerf to Opportunist. At 50% chance in 5 seconds, I get an expected value of 1 init every 10 seconds, compare to the previous 30% in 1 second, which is approximately 4 init in 10 seconds (This is based on 100% crit chance, the gain is even worst for lower crit chance).

That is a drop of 3 init in 10 seconds. We recover 2.5 init in the same timeframe from the regen “buff”.

To add to this, we no longer get the extra init if we chain our stealth utilities from the nerf to infusion of shadows.

So yeah, I’d consider this a nerf for D/D too, especially if you’re running the 0/30/30/10/0 build, which the OP was running.

As a D/D super unicorn I use C&D when I’m bored, not as a survival tool or DPS spike. The only increased initiative trait I have is +3 for stealing, which I use more for positioning than for the initiative (return to the fight after roll for initiative, which went untouched), so its a loss, but not one I’ll feel keenly with the increase in base rate.

I essentially lost nothing and gained more initiative overall.

Neoheart.2750:

If OP didn’t realise d/d is pretty much improved as of Dec 10 then he was:

1. Actually d/p perma stealth but too ashamed to admit it
2. A fotm style part timer running around ganking upped lowbies with some googled build
3. Or just a bad

Either one, he aint no thief

Seems you don’t know Yusei. Considering your post I have doubts that you play a thief at all

Shinjo.6092:

D/D thieves did not get buffed. The .25 increase per second in init regen gives us 1 more init every 4 seconds, which means we can do an extra CnD every 24 seconds. Considering how fast your life drops as a D/D thief, you’re most likely already running for your life when that 24 second mark rolls around and your target isn’t dead yet.

Not only that, the increase is negated by the huge nerf to Opportunist. At 50% chance in 5 seconds, I get an expected value of 1 init every 10 seconds, compare to the previous 30% in 1 second, which is approximately 4 init in 10 seconds (This is based on 100% crit chance, the gain is even worst for lower crit chance).

That is a drop of 3 init in 10 seconds. We recover 2.5 init in the same timeframe from the regen “buff”.

To add to this, we no longer get the extra init if we chain our stealth utilities from the nerf to infusion of shadows.

So yeah, I’d consider this a nerf for D/D too, especially if you’re running the 0/30/30/10/0 build, which the OP was running.

Not to mention if he was 0/30/30/10/0 he might have been using vigorous recovery which is eating a huge nerf. The stated reason for this nerf seemed to be related to S/D evasion builds, but again, it’s not going to hit their intended target, it’s going to hit the collateral builds harder. The vigorous recovery was really helting the survivability of my latest D/D build (0/30/20/20/0) but well see how it goes. Also no one seems to have mentioned it (or I missed it), but the nerf to opportunist is going to affect our ZvZ capabilities (the little we had) when our bouncing arrows and cluster bombs can only proc it once every 5 seconds now. Sorta depended on those to be able to use SB#3 in tough spots or keep up any semblance of DPS with cluster bomb.

FeelsAlright.5860:

Dude d/d is getting a buff if anything. 33% more init regain. We MAY be able to drop the +2 initiative on stealth for the condi clear on stealth now. It will be OP if we can do that.

I have actually already done that because I prefer to play with both the condi-cleanse and blind on stealth. Definitely going to be happy with the extra initiative! Right now even missing one Cloak and Dagger is pretty unforgiving with my trait set up.

OMFG, I totally misunderstood the patch notes…………I am a kittening moron, idiot, stupid etc. Thx my theif brothers for showing me the right way. I know now that if any of us, theives falter our brothers will show us the right path!!

P.S I wish i could remove this thread now I feel too embarrassed XD !!!

Maugetarr.6823:

Shinjo.6092:

D/D thieves did not get buffed. The .25 increase per second in init regen gives us 1 more init every 4 seconds, which means we can do an extra CnD every 24 seconds. Considering how fast your life drops as a D/D thief, you’re most likely already running for your life when that 24 second mark rolls around and your target isn’t dead yet.

Not only that, the increase is negated by the huge nerf to Opportunist. At 50% chance in 5 seconds, I get an expected value of 1 init every 10 seconds, compare to the previous 30% in 1 second, which is approximately 4 init in 10 seconds (This is based on 100% crit chance, the gain is even worst for lower crit chance).

That is a drop of 3 init in 10 seconds. We recover 2.5 init in the same timeframe from the regen “buff”.

To add to this, we no longer get the extra init if we chain our stealth utilities from the nerf to infusion of shadows.

So yeah, I’d consider this a nerf for D/D too, especially if you’re running the 0/30/30/10/0 build, which the OP was running.

Not to mention if he was 0/30/30/10/0 he might have been using vigorous recovery which is eating a huge nerf. The stated reason for this nerf seemed to be related to S/D evasion builds, but again, it’s not going to hit their intended target, it’s going to hit the collateral builds harder. The vigorous recovery was really helting the survivability of my latest D/D build (0/30/20/20/0) but well see how it goes. Also no one seems to have mentioned it (or I missed it), but the nerf to opportunist is going to affect our ZvZ capabilities (the little we had) when our bouncing arrows and cluster bombs can only proc it once every 5 seconds now. Sorta depended on those to be able to use SB#3 in tough spots or keep up any semblance of DPS with cluster bomb.

I wonder if the devs even noticed how this would affect shortbow. If you look on dev tracker, they’ve only responded to eles, wars, mesmers, etc. Now thieves are left standing on a wall wondering wtf they are supposed to do when bouncing arrows can’t hit moving targets, and cluster bombs has 900 range. Meanwhile an engineer is tossing his own cluster bombs at 1500 range with 0 init cost and causes multiple different conditions.

LoL, if anything D/D is getting better.

More Initiative regeneration means you don’t even need Infusion of Shadows any more and can play with both Blind of Stealth and Condition cleanse.

Nothing in the patch-notes preview makes me thing D/D is getting any weaker than it was before.

Dee Jay.2460:

LoL, if anything D/D is getting better.

More Initiative regeneration means you don’t even need Infusion of Shadows any more and can play with both Blind of Stealth and Condition cleanse.

Nothing in the patch-notes preview makes me thing D/D is getting any weaker than it was before.

Well D/D loses of initiatie regen from crits, so that kinda takes away that 25 precent bonus ini regen.

Nah, d/d’s rotation is cnd, wait 3 sec, backstab, 1 autochain, repeat. The opportunist nerf won’t hurt it nearly as much as constant dps builds like anything with swords and blind based d/p builds. D/D is seemingly getting buffed but I think it needs something else like a faster cnd animation.

Kenmei.7138:

Neoheart.2750:

If OP didn’t realise d/d is pretty much improved as of Dec 10 then he was:

1. Actually d/p perma stealth but too ashamed to admit it
2. A fotm style part timer running around ganking upped lowbies with some googled build
3. Or just a bad

Either one, he aint no thief

Seems you don’t know Yusei. Considering your post I have doubts that you play a thief at all

Haha don’t you feel silly now? I suggest you read this legendary players latest post.

Get in! Favorite post of the day

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

it IS idd a buff but… MASSSSSSSSSIVE???… o.O’

MASSSSSSSSSIVE is the nerf to vigor, now that is MASSSSSSSSSIVE!!

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

Can we not nerf vigor access though? For a class thats supposed to evade/dodge more a 50% nerf to the effectiveness of our only defensive boon seems huge.

Yeah, D/D actually got a buff if playing 25/30/0/15/0 or 10/30/30/0/0.

Mugi got buffed!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Mugi-D-D-Solo-Outnumbered-Video

S/x after the IS and vigor nerf on the other hand will die like critters if they get locked down the small time frames they can, and less vigor means more of these time frames.

D/P combined with blinding powder, I believe still will be just as strong. Just without permastealth.

Dodging and stealth are a thief’s only form of survivability. So much as breathing on it will produce MASSSSSSSSSSSIVE changes.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

Yeah, MASSSSSSSSSSIVE buff for all thief specs which don’t use traits for ini-regen.
None, to be precise.

Sure, the buff is so massive that we have…pretty much the same ini regen as before, if not worse.

Did you think Opportunist was a throwaway trait or something?

I think you need to go back and do the math there Tyler. This is only a buff for specs that don’t use opportunist in its current state (which most raw-damage builds actually do use), not “all thief specs”. Please correct me if I’m wrong- I’d like to see how much thought is actually put into such changes.

With that said, I don’t really see a nerf to d/d builds other than the vigor nerf since they rely mainly on backstab or death blossom for damage, none of which will likely have a high amount of crits that would utilize the current opportunist trait enough to surpass the future improved init regen. In fact, it seems that d/d may have a slight buff (certainly not “MASSSSSSIVE”).

On another note though, not one word from devs on any thief changes up until now and this is the first response? I think it’s hilarious that the devs idea of rewarding a thief to be more “actively engaged in the fight” include improving a minor PASSIVE heal change (now as a grandmaster trait) and a RANDOM, UNPREDICTABLE, UNCONTROLLABLE, often UNWANTED teleporter when cc’d rather than the ability to actively dodge. This quote alone as well as comments like the one above make myself and others who main thief question how much (or little) you guys really know about actually playing a thief.

Auesis.7301:

Sure, the buff is so massive that we have…pretty much the same ini regen as before, if not worse.

Worse in all fights.(pve/pvp)
Better when you always run around the empty glade and kissing squirrels.

New meta: catch thief if you can. Like wild boar hunting.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

Dear Tyler Its not a buff since the opportunist trait nerf make up for any buff on the base regen, 5 sec CD is a killer to thief and will affect even pve. PW S/P weapons skill will be feel it as a MASSIVE NERF since its a flury of 9 attacks wich means every time u use it the way its now you will get 1 (or if u are luck even 2) initiative back (since cd is 1sec, doesnt matter if proc chance is only 30%) now with a 5 sec CD do you understand how much of a nerf it is? Even on S/P or P/P builds that arent much viable right now on both pvp and pve this will be a killer

Thanks for your attention hope you guys think better about changes not only to thief but to all classes

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

Ahahahahahahaha! Good one. Now remember the “nerfs” and it’s actually not that massive. The patch buffs D/D, but pretty much kills P/P, S/P and S/D.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

I personally agree. I run a shadow step build, and have found an effective way to play without many of the “limitations” people say thieves have. Through all of the “nerfs” we have undergone, I have never been severely been effected. I personally feel having faster imitative regen is something that will be very beneficial to, as stated above, almost all thief specs. The main thing is, only good players will appreciate it. The one thing I was hoping for was increased heal per hit on signet of malice, but it is a dream, not anything I actually expect because I have a realistic view on how updates will be.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

Initiative allows for burst… So the nerfs to sustain sword damage… I dont see the massive here, sorry.

lolz it’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE nerf for high init regen builds , -0.12 init/s to be exact.

So I run D/D “zergbunker” as such:

20/0/0/20/30

Now, The reason why is that the ~20s stealth makes improvisation actually useful, and lotus poison is a nice condition cover from the auto for basically free.

With 20 in acro I’m using assassin’s reward as backup for the composite overall healing from mug and signet of malice. It’s a fun build that’s a hybrid of evasion and self healing, requiring an active defense and a really aggressive playstyle not possible on other thief builds.

I think this merits saying as if the focus is build diversity, I run a pretty uncommon build, which is being kinda gutted of utilities in favor of (In my Opinion) bigger damage and healing numbers.

These changes are doing the following to my build:

Increasing overall healing, but only IF I drop either improvisation (and lotus poison) or lead attacks/sleight of hand.

THE problem is, these two traits are only really in the build in order to support one another. Is there any chance we can move/adjust improvisation (which is highly underused/undervalued, and thus should be a candidate for a buff in this patch) to allow it?

TBH it would make more sense as a master trait in trickery anyway, and richochet would make more sense in deadly arts.

How about swapping the position of ricochet and improvisation, moving a pistol DPS trait to the DPS line and a steal focused trait to the steal line? I’d be able to keep the utilities in place, but still have to give up 10 points in deadly, thus losing lotus poison and bountiful theft, which seems like a fair trade for fluid strikes and the ability to run hard to catch and assassin’s reward.

This would also benefit P/P and venomshare builds.

P/P would be able to run lighter on trickery and get more utility out of deadly arts, making the p/p without venom share overall a better spec due to the 5 extra optional points in critical trikes or a defensive line, which synergize much better with p/p. In addition they’d have an overall better base of optional initiative traits to fuel themselves, and P/P builds would just be overall tighter with less “chaff” trait points to get to the good stuff.

This would also have a potential slight benefit on venomshare builds, allowing them the option of running improv and the other venom traits for possible proc recharges.

I play a 10/30/30/0/0 build with D/D and P/D.

Assassin’s gear and full set of Grove or Monk for the Healing Power.

I wanted to use Signet of Malice, so the idea was to nearly max out healing power, and heal through AoE DB’s most of the time – the heal I get from hitting a crowd with DB is only second to Dagger Storm – which I also use.

I used to put 10 pts. into Trickery, for extra initiative (in addition to being an Executioner, I also put pts. into flanking, x-tra init, and init on skill 1) – this was to facilitate more DB spam. I even tried init on stealth, but I didn’t use CnD as much so I switched that out.

Prob was, I wasn’t hitting hard enough, so I put those 10 trickery pts. into Power instead and saw some improvement.

Works real good in PVE, but I don’t consider the Thief a PvP class, unless you want to play the cookie cutter build, so I avoid it.

Does anyone have a good D/D Signet of Malice build?

ipan.4356:

I play a 10/30/30/0/0 build with D/D and P/D.

Assassin’s gear and full set of Grove or Monk for the Healing Power.

I wanted to use Signet of Malice, so the idea was to nearly max out healing power, and heal through AoE DB’s most of the time – the heal I get from hitting a crowd with DB is only second to Dagger Storm – which I also use.

I used to put 10 pts. into Trickery, for extra initiative (in addition to being an Executioner, I also put pts. into flanking, x-tra init, and init on skill 1) – this was to facilitate more DB spam. I even tried init on stealth, but I didn’t use CnD as much so I switched that out.

Prob was, I wasn’t hitting hard enough, so I put those 10 trickery pts. into Power instead and saw some improvement.

Works real good in PVE, but I don’t consider the Thief a PvP class, unless you want to play the cookie cutter build, so I avoid it.

Does anyone have a good D/D Signet of Malice build?

TBH, D/D signet of malice runs better as a condition build, and build that spams deathblossom is a condition build, as the white damage from deathblossom ain’t great. I run a D/D malice build as a bleeder with 30 trickery which helps regen, synergises well with bleeds, and lets me opt out of critical strikes in order to get more out of acrobatics/deadly arts.

In additon, if you’re running a SoM build you want to be running mad king runes for the 6 slot effect. Those birds count as multiple attacks, turning daggerstorm in to godmode or basilisk venom in to a reliable heal+ranged stun.

The reason I went for precision is that I wanted to work Sigil of Generosity into my defense.

But I agree – the dmg. isn’t quite good enough.

Anet talks about build diversity, but I don’t see it in the game.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

And then you will nerf it like sword/dagger and Shadow trap right?

some months later i can see a decrase to de initiative gain because X ot Y, thats how you has done it before.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

I’m sorry but it is not. Thieves were fine with the initiative regen, we never complained about having initiative issues so I don’t know where this came from. Also you’re blowing it out of proportion by saying “MASSSSSSSSSIVE”.

Once again we have less viable builds now with this “balance” without looking at which other parts of the class is affected by these changes. An example would be the Opportunist cooldown nerf which now fully renders the already abysmal p/p set to nothing. (unload can’t be spammed now)

Thank you Anet once again……

For the most part, the spec I run got a pretty significant buff. P/D users don’t rely on heavy stealth(well the good ones don’t). It relies on perfect timing of immobilize, kiting through distance, and tons of cripple through caltrops.

I am a little annoyed by the vigor nerf, but it’s nothing I can’t handle.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

Critical Strikes + Trickery S/D? :o

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

All thief specs that don’t use initiative regen* (so… not S/P or P/P)

:)

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

i only ask that you guys leave Flanking Strikes where it is and not move it, you see it is already really hard to use taht once your spotted and seeing most guys are soldier specs these days we are at a disadvantage having very low hp and armor. at least its some bonus if we get them off guard.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

Seriously? Did you really just say that? How can we take you Devs seriously when you make statements like that? Do you realize how much of a nerf increasing the ICD on Opportunist will be?

P/D got an initiative gain with this, and probably S/D as well, but D/D is more or less no gain/no loss, and S/P is losing a lot of initiative gain now. D/P will also probably take a hit to initiative gain.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

This proves how little you and many other devs understand about your own game. If you honestly think that an extra .25 init/s is going to at all counter act the MASSSSSSSSSSSSSIVE surivivability nerfs that you are throwing out with this patch then you have clearly never played a thief above the level of spamming heartseeker in CoF p1. Also considering the majority of thief specs that played with opportunist, the nerf to that alone is on average more than .25 init/s loss. Please provide me with any context on how you are reputable source with regards to what constitutes a MASSSSSSSSIVE buff for thieves, outside of “I’m a developer, of course I know what I’m talking about”.

I don’t know if you’re going to come back and check this thread chap, but Dancing dagger really needs some help. Lately it misses/ is obstructed unless you’re within about 400 range, so it really makes sense to use heartseeker if youre D/D that is at least. Could you guys maybe increase flight speed by 30% like you did to arrows a while ago or adjust the skill to do something ….different?

I like the idea of giving another rollover skill to it really. Remove the bounce, keep the current damage and when it hits you get a roll skill for 15 seconds(lets just call it augury of death for now). The symbol could be something similar to impale for a warrior sword OH #4.

Augury of death would cost 2 initiative, be instant cast, shadow step you to your target, remove 1 condition, and deal no damage. I think this could help P/D and D/D because it would allow a real gap closer for both. It would be sort of the opposite of Infiltrator Strike/Return and promote more aggressive play with those two specs leading to more build diversity which it seems you are trying to promote right now.