So, I have been playing around with this build for a few nights in WvW. My first thought when creating this was that I would have some serious trouble fighting pretty much anything, but boy I was wrong. There are, however, little chance of ever trolling a group of 4 or more and pretty much impossible to kill them (granted that they are on an equal playing level).
The pre-cast of backstab and then mug combo gave me some awesome backstabs and a quite nice boost in damage. I even laugh when encountering Rangers and Engineers since they usually try to reveal me or nuke me from range (I swap signet for smoke field to handle their initial ranged burst). This is where the real fun begins. I stack on them and blind them with +200 power auto attacks from revealed training and shadow shots – which enhances my damage quite much.
The constant in and out of stealth usually deals very well with conditions due to the 2 points in shadow arts. This build is very high risk and very high reward if executed right. It is very hard against condition heavy or burst classes, but played right it worked out well! The lack of Initiative from trickery is noticeable, but it works somehow. I dare any other thief out there to try this in WvW! I loved it and I hope others will too! Would love some feedback on this.
Ps: if you’re comfortable with it you could go with full zerkers instead for even more out of stealth pressure.
Odd set of runes to be running. Dunno if you meant for those or not lol. Anyway, other than that, you run pretty much exactly what I do. I’ve loved the Revealed Training with Mug combo. Been using it ever since the trait was released. So much fun making people explode. XD
Rune of the Wurm looks a good choice too. The reason I’m running travelers are because of the movement speed really. Glad to see that there are other than me who do this too! Have a ton of fun with it currently
Yeah when I think of glass I think of the berserker signet burn build. Blow all 3 signets for 15 might and see if you can end them with the first flurry because if you don’t… you are teh ballet dancer thief.
Updated the name to fit more. Was initially running only berserkers, and the name was just put there since this is far more glass than most WvW builds we run.
I have played the signet build too, but that is really a one trick pony. This has more sustain and chances of surviving after the initial burst.
I do not use traps. That trait was supposed to be Mug, just a wrong click on my phone. Thanks for noticing btw ^^
As for runes; I know there are better alternatives for damage, but I just like the 25% movement speed bonus.
I figured that had to be an accident lol. I ran runes of Speed for awhile for the extra Vitality, but Travelers aren’t a bad choice either. I know plenty of good thieves that run those.
I ran these for awhile too. While they are a solid choice, I figured since I’m already getting 100% crit chance on my Backstabs, and I’ve got Fury when they’re below 50%, that the extra prec bonus was kind of a waste. Entirely up to you though.
Knights of Apathy [KoA] leader – TC
Not Another Gaming Acronym [NAGA] minon – TC
For movement speed try centaur and withdraw. Perma (13s out of 15s) swiftness and +175 power. This gives me damage on my runes and lets me run 3 real utilities, plus they’re like 5silver. Withdraw isn’t even a downgrade either, great skill. It’s also +8% movement when swiftness up over signet or travelers.
also, I highly, highly recommend the quickness on crit trait over furious retaliation if you’re really looking to burst em.
also, with your crit at 50% (i.e. half the time this trait does absolutely nothing), and the revealed training trait (which doesn’t apply to back-stabs) I think executioner’s would be a better trait than hidden killer. Executioner’s and revealed training work together giving you effectively 240 power when revealed and target under 50% hp
also, with your crit at 50% (i.e. half the time this trait does absolutely nothing), and the revealed training trait (which doesn’t apply to back-stabs) I think executioner’s would be a better trait than hidden killer. Executioner’s and revealed training work together giving you effectively 240 power when revealed and target under 50% hp
I originally ran that, and while the extra damage when low was nice (and I by no means dislike that trait), I found I much prefered the guaranteed burst from my Backstabs when opening and throughout a fight, since it keeps my damage fairly consistent. Also with as much as I have invested in crit damage too, it’s just felt like the better choice.
the revealed training trait (which doesn’t apply to back-stabs)
While it really only works with opening burst, there’s a little trick with Mug/Revealed Training where if you warm up your backstab JUST before stealing, Mug triggers revealed just before your backstab connects, applying the 200 Power boost to your BS. ^.^
Knights of Apathy [KoA] leader – TC
Not Another Gaming Acronym [NAGA] minon – TC
I figured that had to be an accident lol. I ran runes of Speed for awhile for the extra Vitality, but Travelers aren’t a bad choice either. I know plenty of good thieves that run those.
I ran these for awhile too. While they are a solid choice, I figured since I’m already getting 100% crit chance on my Backstabs, and I’ve got Fury when they’re below 50%, that the extra prec bonus was kind of a waste. Entirely up to you though.
What are your experience with assassin armor? I see you gain a few more points here and there:
Assassins: critical chance 50
vs 46 on ’serker
Assassins: 1893 precision
vs 1802 on ’serker.
’Serker gives you 2461 power tho,
vs 2370 on assassins (ferocity stays the same).
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
I figured that had to be an accident lol. I ran runes of Speed for awhile for the extra Vitality, but Travelers aren’t a bad choice either. I know plenty of good thieves that run those.
I ran these for awhile too. While they are a solid choice, I figured since I’m already getting 100% crit chance on my Backstabs, and I’ve got Fury when they’re below 50%, that the extra prec bonus was kind of a waste. Entirely up to you though.
What are your experience with assassin armor? I see you gain a few more points here and there:
Assassins: critical chance 50
vs 46 on ’serker
Assassins: 1893 precision
vs 1802 on ’serker.
’Serker gives you 2461 power tho,
vs 2370 on assassins (ferocity stays the same).
I actually just changed up from that last week lol. As you noted, there were minor stat increases/decreases (-86 Power, +4% crit chance, +13% crit damage, and a negligible + to Vit). I’m honestly not sure on the damage numbers, or how much it’s changed, but so far I’m liking it better. I’ll run both sets later to check that, and report back.
Knights of Apathy [KoA] leader – TC
Not Another Gaming Acronym [NAGA] minon – TC
Revealed Training works excellent if you pre-cast backstab into steal. It’s also a nice damage boost with auto attacks and shadow shot between stabs or while I get revealed from Sic’em or Analyze. I still like Hide in Shadows because of the condition removal (which this build highly lack) and the stealth it gives me (and removes yet another condition).
I just fancy traveler runes, but I agree that they are not optimal.
As for Executioner vs Hidden Killer; I really think this boils down to personal preference. My biggest concern is getting those stabs, which is why I stick with HK. Again, this boils down to player preference and style.
RT is a waste if you use those two points in Trickery. 5/6/0/0/3 has higher damage throughput than 6/6/0/0/2 because 6/6/0/0/2 doesn’t get modified by First Strikes since the +3 init from preparedness isn’t applied, unless you somehow manage to be getting in range to CnD and then out of range again for the precasted BS with steal.
4 signet burst is also a little bit of a waste. The might gain from SoM is negligible at that point and it’s a much better investment to use HiS for the condition removal/stealth if it’s necessary to precast/escape if the burst fails or you get caught by say, another thief.
Valkyrie armor with Scholar runes also allows for a substantially more reliable backstab with a ton more damage and yields a ton of survivability, and ToTC compensates for the lost precision via fury on engage. The added vitality also helps substantially against condition users. HK is of course required for this due to the lower precision.
The reason why i am not going 2 points in trickery is simply because I need those 2 points in Shadow Arts in order to deal with conditions :/ But you are right in what you are saying. It will give more damage, but I am looking at creating a viable build for WvW than can survive condition classes too.
Hey Geiir im running pretty much the exact same build as you and i love the damage! Traveler runes are pretty helpful. Could you explain how the mug and backstab combo work exactly for heavy damage output? and how have you been dealing with condi mesmers and classes with a boat load of stuns/dazes/reveals? Maybe a video
If you cast backstab and immideately hit steal (with mug) then the mug damage will be applied and you get revealed while casting backstab, so you get 200 extra power on the backstab hit.
Conditions are the nemesis and counter of this build. Rely on shadowstep and stealth to clean them. But against those that can spam conditions you need to burst them down before they can stack the conditions.
If you cast backstab and immideately hit steal (with mug) then the mug damage will be applied and you get revealed while casting backstab, so you get 200 extra power on the backstab hit.
Is this consistent? If so, that’s a very neat technique.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
If you cast backstab and immideately hit steal (with mug) then the mug damage will be applied and you get revealed while casting backstab, so you get 200 extra power on the backstab hit.
Is this consistent? If so, that’s a very neat technique.
As long as steal connects it works. But those very rare occasions when steal bug it fails :/
If you cast backstab and immideately hit steal (with mug) then the mug damage will be applied and you get revealed while casting backstab, so you get 200 extra power on the backstab hit.
Is this consistent? If so, that’s a very neat technique.
Have a ton of fun with it currently
