Guild Wars 2

We have all heard the tales of how Thieves have always shaped the meta… and how our current state is our own fault. Now, the meta is full of bunkers and bruisers with lots of conditions, and really no Glass Cannons except for Thieves. Sounds boring, doesn’kitten

Don’t worry! I’ve discovered the solution!

Just buff the Thief’s damage output tremendously! Ok, maybe not THAT much, but make the Thief so lethal that even bunker builds start shaking in their boots when they see a Thief is on the opposing team.

Why will this work? Because if the tales are true, if the Thief is so powerful that it can drop bunkers relatively easy, then those bunkers will have no real reason to bunker up. They will have the incentive to start building for damage also. The Thief will no longer be the only Glass Cannon in town… and it will actually live up to that title.

Such a simple solution! Get on it, ANet! You have till next Tuesday! Thank you! :-)

That won’t be the solution as the enemy thief will have downed you within a second.
So the new meta would be thief vs thief whereas thieves still won’t be able to fight other classes properly (unless they make a mistake).
The June patch went wrong big time and thieves never had passives unlike every other class, that’s why it hurts us the most (well and the butchered SA line) (Oh, and acro line but daredevil is on the way).

Our output isn’t that bad actually if you’re traited for it. The problem is that traiting for damage significantly affects our survivability. On my warrior, for example, I feel like I can take 1 offensive line and 1 defensive line and still put out excellent sustained damage with good survivability. With my thief I feel like I am making a hard decision between the two and not able to take both simultaneously. What’s worse is our non-stealth defensive line is in pretty shabby condition, so our build choices are pretty limited; there’s no real sustain build anymore that doesn’t rely on stealth.

Maugetarr.6823:

Our output isn’t that bad actually if you’re traited for it. The problem is that traiting for damage significantly affects our survivability. On my warrior, for example, I feel like I can take 1 offensive line and 1 defensive line and still put out excellent sustained damage with good survivability. With my thief I feel like I am making a hard decision between the two and not able to take both simultaneously. What’s worse is our non-stealth defensive line is in pretty shabby condition, so our build choices are pretty limited; there’s no real sustain build anymore that doesn’t rely on stealth.

/thread

Maugetarr.6823:

Our output isn’t that bad actually if you’re traited for it.

But… I almost always trait for damage :-(

I guess I’m really not a fan of all the passive defensive procs these days :-(

However, I am always open to suggestions! :-D
Which are the best builds for damage?

EDIT:
I do wonder, though… as a glassy Thief myself, why am I not really afraid when fighting another Thief? Even with Basilisk Venom/Sleight of Hand/Backstab, they don’t ever down me with one burst. Yet against other professions, many times, they only need one burst to down me.

Kageseigi.2150:

EDIT:
I do wonder, though… as a glassy Thief myself, why am I not really afraid when fighting another Thief? Even with Basilisk Venom/Sleight of Hand/Backstab, they don’t ever down me with one burst. Yet against other professions, many times, they only need one burst to down me.

Because we have no defense unlike other classes. If you’d buff Thief’s offense we would one shot each other, right now we can’t.
Our damage is still not as high as other classes, so having a higher damage output might help a tiny bit to get them down, but their damage will still be there, so we would die to them as fast as we do now.

Kageseigi.2150:

Maugetarr.6823:

Our output isn’t that bad actually if you’re traited for it.

But… I almost always trait for damage :-(

I guess I’m really not a fan of all the passive defensive procs these days :-(

However, I am always open to suggestions! :-D
Which are the best builds for damage?

This is what I’m currently using.

Here’s a video of how it plays. In the video I had a Sigil of Bloodlust that I’ve since switched out for a Sigil of Rage. Look at the damage on the necro. The damage on the engis was good considering how tanky they were (I had played them previously on my ele). Eventually I’ll have more videos up instead of recycling this one for threads, but I don’t have a lot of spare time right now so I’d rather be playing than editing. After I finish a hurdle within the next month I might be able to put up more, but the damage is similar in all the games I’ve played since.

Without a set team though, surviving can be tricky, which is why I say that I really feel like I make a decisive build choice with thief.

Edit: My warrior which is the example I use for feeling like I have both survivability and damage on other classes. (Not great gameplay, but I liked the game)

Jana.6831:

Because we have no defense unlike other classes. If you’d buff Thief’s offense we would one shot each other, right now we can’t.
Our damage is still not as high as other classes, so having a higher damage output might help a tiny bit to get them down, but their damage will still be there, so we would die to them as fast as we do now.

Yes, I think I would prefer that actually. If we’re already going to die because we’re glass, at least allow us a pretty good shot at killing the other guy if we get the first shot in.

Maugetarr.6823:

This is what I’m currently using.

Thank you. It’s interesting because that’s similar to what I’ve been running recently, though with D/P or D/D. I do take Flanking Strike (for the Quickness) and Trickster (for the condi-removal), though. Conditions seem to be the real killer now… and I don’t even know if a Sword would be enough. Sadly, I’ve never been much of a Stealth Thief in PvP, so I don’t utilize Shadow Arts enough for it to be very effective. That’s why I choose Critical Strikes instead.

But again, thank you for sharing :-)

I prefer non brainless fights in which everybody has to think and a chance for a strategy – not just one shotting every opponent while the passive buffs pop up.

Strategy is fine… as long as there is balance.

Increasing the Thief’s damage is only one solution.
Increasing the Thief’s sustainability is another.
At least one of them needs to happen.
Perhaps make each happen, then allow each player to choose which style to play.

It’s just at this point, the Thief is lacking. If nothing changes, it’s still going to be in a bad place. I’m just hoping for something to change for the better.

What I tried to say: even if Thief damage or sustain (armor right now, I guess) were buffed; it wouldn’t change that the rest of the game is off – so either way it would be a quick fix which in the end wouldn’t change much.
So, if anet is serious about their Esports thingy, they will notice at some point that the damage is too high and the passives as well – so they will have to lower the damage (and buffs) and I hope that they will then remember the special snowflake which is thief – the class that can’t be brushed over because it needs high damage because of so little sustain.

Edit: I hope you get my point: The whole game is off – every fix to thief wouldn’t fix the core. Every fix to the core might further nerf thief if not handeled carefully.

Jana.6831:

What I tried to say: even if Thief damage or sustain (armor right now, I guess) were buffed; it wouldn’t change that the rest of the game is off – so either way it would be a quick fix which in the end wouldn’t change much.
So, if anet is serious about their Esports thingy, they will notice at some point that the damage is too high and the passives as well – so they will have to lower the damage (and buffs) and I hope that they will then remember the special snowflake which is thief – the class that can’t be brushed over because it needs high damage because of so little sustain.

Edit: I hope you get my point: The whole game is off – every fix to thief wouldn’t fix the core. Every fix to the core might further nerf thief if not handeled carefully.

I’m going to disagree with you here. The game is actually pretty close to being balanced imo. There are some outliers here and there in both directions, thief just happens to be in the underpowered direction when it comes to sustained fighting. Condis are actually pretty close to in line now (in PvP) including burning if they would limit the sources/duration of it. Our offensive lines are in good shape. Trickery is in good shape but needs to have a couple of things rolled into baseline thief to make it not as necessary (preparedness, CD reduction of steal from SoH). Shadow arts if semi-okay. It needs some moving around of traits, consolidation, and a couple of replacements. Acro needs the serious rework. My vote is to still roll FG into Enforcer training, thus rounding out DrD nicely and allowing them to just re-theme Acro into something else entirely (I like the idea of shadowstep buffs and boon hate like a manipulation themed line). P/P needs retheming like acro (so P1, P2, and P/P3). D/D3 & X/D need minor work.
From an sPvP perspective, it’s not that bad. Ele sustain with meta D/D might still be a little strong. Other than ele, mesmer is the only one I really see consistent complaints about but I couldn’t tell you how to nerf either of those without messing them up.

Maugetarr.6823:

I’m going to disagree with you here. The game is actually pretty close to being balanced imo. There are some outliers here and there in both directions, thief just happens to be in the underpowered direction when it comes to sustained fighting. Condis are actually pretty close to in line now (in PvP) including burning if they would limit the sources/duration of it.

Thing is, it’s a cooldown-war no skill war anymore.
I don’t think that is balance as people just need to mash their buttons and hope their skills/passives will be availlable before their enemy’s. And that is for all classes – Necros deathshroud hits me for 6+ k autoattack, warrior GS3 for 17k, all while they regen as if there’s no tomorrow- that is no balance. That is mindless even if it might appear as balance.

Edit: I was talking about the game in general, not balance between the classes, btw. Thief was left out from the power creep because the class had no passives to start with. So the defense hasn’t been buffed in comparison to all other classes, that’s why thief now suffers wheras all other classes can faceroll their keyboard to success.

Kageseigi

Maugetarr.6823:

This is what I’m currently using.

Thank you. It’s interesting because that’s similar to what I’ve been running recently, though with D/P or D/D. I do take Flanking Strike (for the Quickness) and Trickster (for the condi-removal), though. Conditions seem to be the real killer now… and I don’t even know if a Sword would be enough. Sadly, I’ve never been much of a Stealth Thief in PvP, so I don’t utilize Shadow Arts enough for it to be very effective. That’s why I choose Critical Strikes instead.

But again, thank you for sharing :-)

Yeah, sword 2 isn’t enough to handle condis by itself. That’s why I carry the IS, so I can use SoA and Shadow return for burst removal. All the condis can basically be treated like medium sustained direct damage with the exception of big stacks of confusion and virtually any burning over 3 stacks. As long as I don’t try to heal while poisoned, thats strategy usually pays off. Movement impairing skills don’t really bother S/X too much, so as long as burning isn’t constantly reapplied or covered with a lot of cover, I find it managable, which is why I just bring burst removal.

The meta has been moving for a while away from targeted damage towards AoE attacks. Thief is one of the few classes focused around still dedicated to direct single target damage. Until they figure out how to balance AoE against the added difficulty of single target play, the thief is going to be in a bad state.