Guild Wars 2

As a balance build D/D thief, how do I win vs a D/P thief? They are basically perma stealth and when you do catch them outside of stealth, BP really messes me to. Any advice?

Utilize your death blossom, don’t forget, it’s not just there to apply bleeds, it’s also an evade.

Once you see the smoke field, they’re most likely gonna hs to you, that’s when u death blossom to counter their blind and prevent their stealth, and u should be within range still to CnD and stealth yourself giving u the upper hand.

Deathblossom uses alot of ini too so don’t forget to manage your initiative

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Utilize your death blossom, don’t forget, it’s not just there to apply bleeds, it’s also an evade.

Once you see the smoke field, they’re most likely gonna hs to you, that’s when u death blossom to counter their blind and prevent their stealth, and u should be within range still to CnD and stealth yourself giving u the upper hand.

Deathblossom uses alot of ini too so don’t forget to manage your initiative

Do you even know how to play a D/P? I don’t want to come off as an kitten but your advice doesn’t make sense at all.

If I was playing D/D
I’d have 30 in trickery.
Dodge the BP, Interrupt with Steal.
Force him on defense and try to capitalize.

I primarily play S/D. I randomly threw on D/P the other day in WvW, and I gotta say its amazing. Ensoriki’s advice is good. For myself I camp around my Shadow Trap and its been working out pretty well for me.

The build is extremly strong. Try to hit your CnD on them when they HS to you and try to land backstabs are best as u can. It really is kind of an uphill battle.

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Utilize your death blossom, don’t forget, it’s not just there to apply bleeds, it’s also an evade.

Once you see the smoke field, they’re most likely gonna hs to you, that’s when u death blossom to counter their blind and prevent their stealth, and u should be within range still to CnD and stealth yourself giving u the upper hand.

Deathblossom uses alot of ini too so don’t forget to manage your initiative

LOL…WOW

/D specs will always have trouble with D/P, if played right the pistol off-hand skills let you control the fight

Maybe I just haven’t ran into a good d/p ever then, but every d/p I ever run into just shoots bp, hs to me and tries to do a backstab. But if u guys say that’s bad advice, I won’t advise that to anyone then, but that’s what I do as a dd thief myself which works really well.

d/p is a slightly more advanced build and required the player to have better understanding of game mechanisms. DPS doesn’t come as straight forward kitten d or d/d, and stealth is produced from combofield+finisher instead of pressing a button.

The players with d/p setup therefore tend to be more experienced and likely harder to beat, especially for a thief with a different build/setup.

main downside of d/p is the lack of reliable burst dps. Their opening isn’t as deadly, which meant they have a higher chance of getting burst down if you opened correctly.

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Maybe I just haven’t ran into a good d/p ever then, but every d/p I ever run into just shoots bp, hs to me and tries to do a backstab. But if u guys say that’s bad advice, I won’t advise that to anyone then, but that’s what I do as a dd thief myself which works really well.

there’s also headshot and a closer, but you obviously wouldn’t know since you haven’t ran into a good d/p (that also tells us how much you had played, evidently, el oh el).

anyroad, the entire point of d/p is to place those skills at the right location and at the right time. Does porsche make better cars than hyundai? Aren’t they all just cars with essentially the same components/technologies?

Brassnautilus.2941:

d/p is a slightly more advanced build and required the player to have better understanding of game mechanisms. DPS doesn’t come as straight forward kitten d or d/d, and stealth is produced from combofield+finisher instead of pressing a button.

The players with d/p setup therefore tend to be more experienced and likely harder to beat, especially for a thief with a different build/setup.

main downside of d/p is the lack of reliable burst dps. Their opening isn’t as deadly, which meant they have a higher chance of getting burst down if you opened correctly.

Sorry, I think D/D are harder to play because you can’t make a mistake. D/P, you can afford 1 or 2 mistake especially against melee due to blind from bp and stealth combo field. At least with D/D, you have to try to land cnd.

I think d/p is superior to d/d it is a really good melee kit. All the tools are there when fighting another melee class. Its one of the weapon sets where all of the skills are really good especially since they fixed/buffed shadow shot. You don’t get access to cloak and dagger for the extra damage it provides, you can still bring mug to the battle though if thats what you prefer.

I have been running D/P and S/D for about 2 months or so now. When I fight another thief I would say the best thing to do is what you would do against all other thieves avoid the backstab stay moving. S/D works well against D/P and bow most smart D/P thieves will have auto attack turned off so that they can heartseeker through bp if they want to jump through 2 or 3 times instead of just once.

To maintain as much good uptime on target as you can though and to apply pressure they will most likely heartseeker once and then come for the backstab so its 2 secs of stealth and prepare for a back stab.

D/P really has the upperhand against D/D though because even if a d/d pops shadow refuge d/p can maintain stealth just as long with out having to pop their own refuge if they don’t want to. S/D is good because you have the immobilize to hinder their movement with infiltrator strike and a interrupt.

A tactic my friend does is when the d/p thief pops blackpowder he cluster bombs the blackpowder spot even if he is blinded because even if you are blinded it wears off since its technically more than 1 attack.

As to which one is harder to play mmm guess it depends I feel like d/p is a bit more technical since you don’t get extra burst from cloak and dagger but you want to use headshot at the right time to stop the heal.

More thieves are running d/p lately but its usually the normal 5,2,1 rotation many I fight don’t seem to really use headshot. Headshotting a thief counting on Hide in shadows always brings a smile to my face. Shadow shot also can crit for 2k+

First of all, remember that your shortbow kite really well D/P set. So that the weapon set you should use to controle the fight. On a top of that going stealth via BP+HS combo is expensive and can not be use forever.
Then if you play a D/D burst build, then there is a small window to burst thoses D/P thieves up:
max range (because the closest you are, the harder it is), you have to avoid the black powder shot (obviously reaction is better than prediction) – roll dodge it, or SoS it. At this point the D/P thief is gonna use the HS. This is your window to burst him up. You gonna try to land your classic pre-cnd~steal > BS in between the HS activation frames and recovery frames (don’t get too slow, to land your backstab, the thief would be probably stealthed at this moment).
Also if you feel comfortable using the shortbow, you can also stick with it, and go for pre-HS~steal when your target have 50/60% life (considering you have either fury on steal or fury at 50% foe’s life to maximize you crit chance with HS).
I’m not pretending that easy to do (i play D/P as well), just giving my method to deal with.

Saku Joe.2857:

First of all, remember that your shortbow kite really well D/P set. So that the weapon set you should use to controle the fight. On a top of that going stealth via BP+HS combo is expensive and can not be use forever.
Then if you play a D/D burst build, then there is a small window to burst thoses D/P thieves up:
max range (because the closest you are, the harder it is), you have to avoid the blinding power shot (obviously reaction is better than prediction) – roll dodge it, or SoS it. At this point the D/P thief is gonna use the HS. This is your window to burst him up. You gonna try to land your classic pre-cnd~steal > BS in between the HS activation frames and recovery frames (don’t get too slow, to land your backstab, the thief would be probably stealthed at this moment).
Also if you feel comfortable using the shortbow, you can also stick with it, and go for pre-HS~steal when your target have 50/60% life (considering you have either fury on steal or fury at 50% foe’s life to maximize you crit chance with HS).
I’m not pretending that easy to do (i play D/P as well), just giving my method to deal with.

Yea +1 on this also SoS is good to hit the blind on the black powder also it works when they are in stealth pop SoS when its up and the backstab will miss. If you see they have baslisk up then you definitely want to pop SoS if you are running it.

D/P has no hard counter, unlike X/D where you can dodge CnD.

My best advice would be to disrupt their stealth process via the use of scorpion wire(thieves guild also uses this) and a lot of chill to slow them. Then stuns if you can(thieves don’t have this, except for S/P). S/D daze should totally own the little buggers, though.

So finally people realize d/p is op…

I’ll be blunt with you MIrra. There is no way to kill a d/p thief if they are determined to perma stealth and run around you till their health reaches full.
I hope this answers your question. My advice. Play a d/p thief and you can both perma stealth for stale mate.

IB nerf qq’s…

Saku Joe.2857:

On a top of that going stealth via BP+HS combo is expensive and can not be use forever.

that’s what i was talking about. While some might agree to what you said, that doing BP+HS is wasting initiative, some others would say the exact opposite, that swapping to a shortbow was the waste of initiatives.

An experienced d/p player uses auto and backstab to pressure, not heartseeker. The heartseeker initiative cost is instantly returned plus you can get removal and healing for that spending-return via multiple sources.

If I hadn’t mistaken, this post is about dueling, although given the wvw condition, probably meant a more wvw oriented utility setup. The fundamentals remained the same though, we talking about killing another fair and square in a 1v1 fight, with thieves involved. What do thieves do in a mirror fight? We go cheap right? Do we HS spam? Or do you BS pressure?

+

one very important thing
blackpowder blinds.
It’s not just about stealth, d/p wins the dps count in the end.

Really isn’t just about thief vs. thief. Some other classes too. Fight a good engi in the daylight, he will one shot you with grenades.

Zelulose.8695:

So finally people realize d/p is op…

I’ll be blunt with you MIrra. There is no way to kill a d/p thief if they are determined to perma stealth and run around you till their health reaches full.
I hope this answers your question. My advice. Play a d/p thief and you can both perma stealth for stale mate.

in a 1v1 duel ya, but this game isn’t about 1v1. 1v1 doesn’t even mean much in tourney, let alone wvw.

d/p lacks reliable burst. ok single target dps, but really not that much. I tried on some good d/d eles, it’s impossible to pressure them down, they heal more than what I do and I was taking a lot of hits trying to dish out a bit more dmg. Even with thieves and ambush trap proc, 4 on 1 he would just shield up and run around till it’s over, or dodge roll into spikes and kill all 3 npc in 1 hit.
and then, it just down right blows in the aoe department. Less than useless zerging, especially now it only takes tiny bit of dmg to tag a kill.

It’s OP in a specific ways. Unless you get caught in a 1v1 with a d/p thief, it isn’t really OP. So it isn’t OP afterall, right?

Yea I think the OP is asking about thief vs thief Brass is right though against a bunker D/D ele its a stalemate if you arent running s/d or d/d as an alternate weapon set unless 1 of you really want to die.

I will add also that S/P actually works well against d/p thieves since many of the pistol whip attacks will hit even if you get blinded and you have your own access to black powder when you know they are trying to move in for backstab and you have infiltrator strike and headshot to immobilze and stun.

I’m not too sure about D/D counters to D/P, I’ve been mostly roaming as P/D, but essentially I keep moving, stay out of BP and CnD when they Backstab and DD when they’re about to HS to keep damage up all the time popping into stealth as much as possible for Healing (Shadow Rejuvenation)

I also run with Basalisk Venom and use that to get a couple of free hits on them (Usually after they backstab so they’re not in the middle of a BP)

A tactic I should try at some point is using Shortbow, Choking Gas and Cluster Bomb on their BP when they’re trying to stealth and also on their Shadow Refuge to at least deter them from attacking.

I find the only possible ways a d/d thief can kill a good d/p thief is either catch them by surprise or use s/d.

Just burst them. If they stealth, just run in the opposite direction for 3 seconds to make sure they don’t spike you.

I don’t get why this is such a hard topic, D/D will win the fight.

so, the d/d fans complain that a counter build in d/p is their demise ?

playing d/p until the nerf bat comes (again)…

DanH.5879:

so, the d/d fans complain that a counter build in d/p is their demise ?

playing d/p until the nerf bat comes (again)…

Meh no nerf coming

Posted 3 months ago on reddit only thing they did was make it so you can’t cap in stealth. Over 200 comments.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12ruhs/thief_proof_of_concept_permanent_stealth/

Already posted in the WvW forums https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Proof-of-Concept-Perma-Stealth-in-WvW/first#post658310

I highly doubt Anet is going to make a change to stealth.

D/P started to get more popular in WvW a few weeks ago because someone made that Unseen and deathless video. D/P was already being used by high ranked thieves in sPvP. Some people need someone to tell them how to play and then it catches on. Why alot more thieves are using withdraw now because it was in that same unseen and deathless video.

See elementalists are weak threads until someone showed people the d/d bunker specs which where already getting used in sPvP.

Brassnautilus.2941:

d/p lacks reliable burst.

I would just like to point out this is completely false, this person obviously has no idea how to play D/P correctly. The burst opener for D/D is Cloak and Dagger + Steal (used during the CnD cast), and then backstab, with damage coming from CnD, Mug trait (damage on Steal), and then a backstab. The burst opener of D/P is Blinding Powder + Heartseeker, Steal (while you are mid-air from Heartseeker), and then backstab, with damage coming from Heartseeker, Mug, and then backstab. Most players do not realize that Heartseeker and Mug hit BEFORE you stealth, allowing for a backstab. The burst combo for D/P is equivalent if not superior to D/D opener.

Run a X/D build in WvW? Enemy in stealth so you don’t have a target to CnD?

What if I told you there’s a plethora of mobs with static AI that you can use to CnD into stealth?

oZii.2864:

DanH.5879:

so, the d/d fans complain that a counter build in d/p is their demise ?

playing d/p until the nerf bat comes (again)…

Meh no nerf coming

Posted 3 months ago on reddit only thing they did was make it so you can’t cap in stealth. Over 200 comments.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12ruhs/thief_proof_of_concept_permanent_stealth/

Already posted in the WvW forums https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Proof-of-Concept-Perma-Stealth-in-WvW/first#post658310

I highly doubt Anet is going to make a change to stealth.

D/P started to get more popular in WvW a few weeks ago because someone made that Unseen and deathless video. D/P was already being used by high ranked thieves in sPvP. Some people need someone to tell them how to play and then it catches on. Why alot more thieves are using withdraw now because it was in that same unseen and deathless video.

See elementalists are weak threads until someone showed people the d/d bunker specs which where already getting used in sPvP.

I’ve always known D/P was the weapons set along w/ S/D.

Problem is i’m stubborn and don’t wanna switch

Galsia.4102:

Run a X/D build in WvW? Enemy in stealth so you don’t have a target to CnD?

What if I told you there’s a plethora of mobs with static AI that you can use to CnD into stealth?

That’s what I did eventually. I lured him to a part of the map with mobs. Then it becomes a game of cat and mouse. The tricky part is getting him/her to follow you…

I’m a balance build BS thief. If I was more glass cannon, I don’t think I would’ve a problem, just need luck for steal/cnd/bs to all crit for 20k damage

Hotcake.2137:

Brassnautilus.2941:

d/p lacks reliable burst.

I would just like to point out this is completely false, this person obviously has no idea how to play D/P correctly. The burst opener for D/D is Cloak and Dagger + Steal (used during the CnD cast), and then backstab, with damage coming from CnD, Mug trait (damage on Steal), and then a backstab. The burst opener of D/P is Blinding Powder + Heartseeker, Steal (while you are mid-air from Heartseeker), and then backstab, with damage coming from Heartseeker, Mug, and then backstab. Most players do not realize that Heartseeker and Mug hit BEFORE you stealth, allowing for a backstab. The burst combo for D/P is equivalent if not superior to D/D opener.

10 points in crit, 0 in DA = lack of burst
20 points in crit, 0 in DA = slightly better lack of burst

trait more into those and play d/p = you are dumb

Brassnautilus.2941:

Hotcake.2137:

Brassnautilus.2941:

d/p lacks reliable burst.

I would just like to point out this is completely false, this person obviously has no idea how to play D/P correctly. The burst opener for D/D is Cloak and Dagger + Steal (used during the CnD cast), and then backstab, with damage coming from CnD, Mug trait (damage on Steal), and then a backstab. The burst opener of D/P is Blinding Powder + Heartseeker, Steal (while you are mid-air from Heartseeker), and then backstab, with damage coming from Heartseeker, Mug, and then backstab. Most players do not realize that Heartseeker and Mug hit BEFORE you stealth, allowing for a backstab. The burst combo for D/P is equivalent if not superior to D/D opener.

look at the traits son.
you do know how to trait for d/p right?

Are you saying there’s only one build for d/p?

P.S. Don’t call other people “son.” That kitten is rude.

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Utilize your death blossom, don’t forget, it’s not just there to apply bleeds, it’s also an evade.

Once you see the smoke field, they’re most likely gonna hs to you, that’s when u death blossom to counter their blind and prevent their stealth, and u should be within range still to CnD and stealth yourself giving u the upper hand.

Deathblossom uses alot of ini too so don’t forget to manage your initiative

LOL, holy kitten, sry bout that, that was my “pro” drunk friend on my comp yesterday. I asked him wtf he was talking bout and he thought that u had to land the hs with bp to stealth lol. I brought him to the mist and showed him how to play each weapon set and I can now say there is officially 1 less thief nub in gw2

MIrra.3604:

Are you saying there’s only one build for d/p?

P.S. Don’t call other people “son.” That kitten is rude.

there’s more than 1 build for d/p, but they are similar in the sense that they all required specific init return traits. ie. quick recovery, infusion of shadow, opportunist…
you do not need all of them, but you need 2 minimum, 3 would make it simpler, and you need all the stealth benefits from shadow arts line to make all the stealth you produce worthy.

that said, I seen pros running 0/10/30/30/0 these days, to get a bit more of sustained dps (might stacking) and more regen, so it’s possible to spend that 10 extra in deadly arts to get mug (instead of getting fluid strikes and assassin’s reward).

then question is, why aren’t people traiting like that to get couple K more out of mug with d/p?

because that’s not how d/p is supposed to be played. You can burst much harder with s/d or d/d, and if you want to do that, those are the superior weapon choices. d/p is for pressure, not burst.

Basilisk poison + backstab, swap weapon set to S/P pistol whip + haste, if you fail immediately cast shadow refuge to regain init and back off. If anything, a full burst damage tends to break any thief you come across.

On 1v1 I use Shadow refuge/Haste/Shadowstep with a combo of Lyssa Runes (where you lose all conditions and gain all buffs) and finalize it with the above combo. It tends to work wonders on low HP players. Do not use this on 1v2, it tends to get ugly very fast.

On 1vX I use Shadow refuge/Blinding powder/Shadowstep, where the focus is on survival.

I use +100 power, + 70 vitality, along with superior sharpening stone, and I use a D/D build, and my base power with food is 3000 along with 80% + burst damage, approximately 16 K hp (because I have 2 legendaries, incinerator and bolt on each weapon set).

In theory, D/P users can try the same combination above (because I tried it with Lyssa runes), but I find that Scholar runes + 1 divinity rune tend to do more damage (also tried this), but in the end the legendary weapons tend to take off too many critical % points to effectively win in a 1v1 battle.

I came up with multiple builds and traits and conclude that D/D offers the best DPS and survivability. D/P has a high focus on survival and you will never kill certain professions, because they can outheal or damage you enough so you can’t get too close.

If you play really well, you can still probably kill 1v1 players with a haste combo with DP/SP too. I fought with multiple thieves players once with Scholar set with D/P and pretty much KOed almost everyone with the haste combo, even when I’m not good at it. The one who didn’t go down kept on ensuring his HP is 80% and above when he fights.

tl;dr:
D/D against D/P can be hard, unless you can C&D on hidden HS landing.
btw that’s why you have a second weapon set. just swap and go ranged.

Well for starters, I wouldn’t try a typical Basilisk → Mug + CnD → Backstab combo on him unless he’s preoccupied with someone else.

Reason is, all it takes to shut this down is for him to cast Blinding Powder, before your burst and you miss the whole combo, and are now likely going to get counter backstabbed.

Instead, I’d swap to shortbow, and try to wear him down by kiting as much as possible. When he uses BP → Heartseeker, he’s likely going for a backstab. If he’s done this twice, he’s likely not going to be able to use BP after coming out of stealth, so this is when I would swap to D/D, ready up Bask venom, turn and swipe behind you with your auto-attack. Once you catch him, that’s when you should try to burst him down.

I think the key is not opening with your burst, but instead try to make him waste is init as much as possible, which is very easy to do even with high init recovery. Also, if he specs for Quick Recovery, he either has much less burst damage due to a lack of the Critical Strikes tree, or has no heal in stealth. If he does have full Critical Strikes + Hidden Killer, he probably can’t afford to miss or mess up the combo without blowing his utils. He can’t have it all, so try to read what he’s doing and adapt as fast as possible.

LoneWolfie.1852:

Basilisk poison + backstab, swap weapon set to S/P pistol whip + haste, if you fail immediately cast shadow refuge to regain init and back off. If anything, a full burst damage tends to break any thief you come across.

On 1v1 I use Shadow refuge/Haste/Shadowstep with a combo of Lyssa Runes (where you lose all conditions and gain all buffs) and finalize it with the above combo. It tends to work wonders on low HP players. Do not use this on 1v2, it tends to get ugly very fast.

On 1vX I use Shadow refuge/Blinding powder/Shadowstep, where the focus is on survival.

I use +100 power, + 70 vitality, along with superior sharpening stone, and I use a D/D build, and my base power with food is 3000 along with 80% + burst damage, approximately 16 K hp (because I have 2 legendaries, incinerator and bolt on each weapon set).

In theory, D/P users can try the same combination above (because I tried it with Lyssa runes), but I find that Scholar runes + 1 divinity rune tend to do more damage (also tried this), but in the end the legendary weapons tend to take off too many critical % points to effectively win in a 1v1 battle.

I came up with multiple builds and traits and conclude that D/D offers the best DPS and survivability. D/P has a high focus on survival and you will never kill certain professions, because they can outheal or damage you enough so you can’t get too close.

If you play really well, you can still probably kill 1v1 players with a haste combo with DP/SP too. I fought with multiple thieves players once with Scholar set with D/P and pretty much KOed almost everyone with the haste combo, even when I’m not good at it. The one who didn’t go down kept on ensuring his HP is 80% and above when he fights.

Not a fan of haste at all it is just so all in unless its critical haste. D/P can interrupt the heal and still stay on target with either shadowstepping, heartseeker, or shadow shot (improved shadow shot is really good now) it doesnt hit as hard as cloak and dagger though. I do agree though that say fighting a engi with the Fed Ex elite down is hard if you don’t have ranged not impossible but it is definitely in the Engi’s favor. Thieves guild helps with that though.

I play D/P and what I do against other thieves are situational.

The first test is what they react to my BP+HS stealth. If they stealth, I make sure to counter that with a stealth utility. If they do not show up first means they used another stealth so I just do another BP+HS combo. If they still don’t show up, I use another stealth utility. At this time they ran out of stealth skill so I cast my basilisk venom, then target the thief, HS+mug then backstab + HS again. Should have a downed thief after.

Never really faced another thief that didn’t react to my BP+HS other than to stealth away. If they pretty much saved up their stealth and waited. Mug + BS should be enough to put them in the defensive.

Maybe this will help in understanding the build.

Against other classes, I switch to Thieves Guild and against Guardians, Rangers, Warriors and Engineers, they are very helpful especially when their HP is close to 50% left.

Also, I play D/P with a 10 / 30 / 30 / 0 / 0 build and have like 15k HP, 2.5k armor, 88% crit damage, 44% crit, 3.1k attack. Pretty much a tanky with burst build.

Joshiasi.2840:

I play D/P and what I do against other thieves are situational.

The first test is what they react to my BP+HS stealth. If they stealth, I make sure to counter that with a stealth utility. If they do not show up first means they used another stealth so I just do another BP+HS combo. If they still don’t show up, I use another stealth utility. At this time they ran out of stealth skill so I cast my basilisk venom, then target the thief, HS+mug then backstab + HS again. Should have a downed thief after.

Never really faced another thief that didn’t react to my BP+HS other than to stealth away. If they pretty much saved up their stealth and waited. Mug + BS should be enough to put them in the defensive.

Maybe this will help in understanding the build.

Against other classes, I switch to Thieves Guild and against Guardians, Rangers, Warriors and Engineers, they are very helpful especially when their HP is close to 50% left.

Also, I play D/P with a 10 / 30 / 30 / 0 / 0 build and have like 15k HP, 2.5k armor, 88% crit damage, 44% crit, 3.1k attack. Pretty much a tanky with burst build.

I don’t have a problem killing d/p 10/30/30/0/0 build. The 0/10/30/30 are harder…

P.S. 15K HP and 2.5K armor is not “tanky”

Brassnautilus.2941:

Hotcake.2137:

Brassnautilus.2941:

d/p lacks reliable burst.

I would just like to point out this is completely false, this person obviously has no idea how to play D/P correctly. The burst opener for D/D is Cloak and Dagger + Steal (used during the CnD cast), and then backstab, with damage coming from CnD, Mug trait (damage on Steal), and then a backstab. The burst opener of D/P is Blinding Powder + Heartseeker, Steal (while you are mid-air from Heartseeker), and then backstab, with damage coming from Heartseeker, Mug, and then backstab. Most players do not realize that Heartseeker and Mug hit BEFORE you stealth, allowing for a backstab. The burst combo for D/P is equivalent if not superior to D/D opener.

10 points in crit, 0 in DA = lack of burst
20 points in crit, 0 in DA = slightly better lack of burst

trait more into those and play d/p = you are dumb

You’re only further proving how ignorant you are on the subject, you’re obviously clueless. Burst D/P builds are almost identical to burst D/D builds, with only a couple modifications to suit WvW i.e. less power from the DA trait line, all of which is made up from Sigil of Bloodlust stacks. In sPvP, the build is EXACTLY the same, but you wouldn’t know that. I’m only pointing this out because people like you provide wrong information to people trying to learn.

I’ve never had a problem with D/P thieves but then again I run DD and SD. I usually swap between the both during any given fight depending on if I need CC or damage…

Sifu.6527:

Joshiasi.2840:

I play D/P and what I do against other thieves are situational.

The first test is what they react to my BP+HS stealth. If they stealth, I make sure to counter that with a stealth utility. If they do not show up first means they used another stealth so I just do another BP+HS combo. If they still don’t show up, I use another stealth utility. At this time they ran out of stealth skill so I cast my basilisk venom, then target the thief, HS+mug then backstab + HS again. Should have a downed thief after.

Never really faced another thief that didn’t react to my BP+HS other than to stealth away. If they pretty much saved up their stealth and waited. Mug + BS should be enough to put them in the defensive.

Maybe this will help in understanding the build.

Against other classes, I switch to Thieves Guild and against Guardians, Rangers, Warriors and Engineers, they are very helpful especially when their HP is close to 50% left.

Also, I play D/P with a 10 / 30 / 30 / 0 / 0 build and have like 15k HP, 2.5k armor, 88% crit damage, 44% crit, 3.1k attack. Pretty much a tanky with burst build.

I don’t have a problem killing d/p 10/30/30/0/0 build. The 0/10/30/30 are harder…

P.S. 15K HP and 2.5K armor is not “tanky”

For a thief thats tanky. That 15k HP and 2.5k armor saved me a lot from dps backstab thieves.

Never had problems killing other thieves aswell. Only class that gave me serious run for my money are d/d bunker eles and mesmers. Eles its pretty much stalemate since we could not kill each other while mesmers got plenty of tricks up their sleeves.

i saw yesterday an D/P thief vs GS warrior
And the skills that aren’t countered by blind , destroy the P/D thief ( chain skils or aoe’s )
The thief got hit hard by volley and Whirlwind.

Rayya.2591:

i saw yesterday an D/P thief vs GS warrior
And the skills that aren’t countered by blind , destroy the P/D thief ( chain skils or aoe’s )
The thief got hit hard by volley and Whirlwind.

Thief should have switched to SB as its no fun to go against a GS warrior face on. Thieves Guild helps too.

Hotcake.2137:

You’re only further proving how ignorant you are on the subject, you’re obviously clueless. Burst D/P builds are almost identical to burst D/D builds, with only a couple modifications to suit WvW i.e. less power from the DA trait line, all of which is made up from Sigil of Bloodlust stacks. In sPvP, the build is EXACTLY the same, but you wouldn’t know that. I’m only pointing this out because people like you provide wrong information to people trying to learn.

too bad you are the only one on this thread that thinks that way. I’ll just ignore you like the others.

Brassnautilus.2941:

Hotcake.2137:

You’re only further proving how ignorant you are on the subject, you’re obviously clueless. Burst D/P builds are almost identical to burst D/D builds, with only a couple modifications to suit WvW i.e. less power from the DA trait line, all of which is made up from Sigil of Bloodlust stacks. In sPvP, the build is EXACTLY the same, but you wouldn’t know that. I’m only pointing this out because people like you provide wrong information to people trying to learn.

too bad you are the only one on this thread that thinks that way. I’ll just ignore you like the others.

Eh? Hotcake isn’t wrong about this for sPvP…the usual 25/30/0/0/15 D/D build can also be played with D/P instead and is how I run it myself.

LyzeUH.1398:

Brassnautilus.2941:

Hotcake.2137:

You’re only further proving how ignorant you are on the subject, you’re obviously clueless. Burst D/P builds are almost identical to burst D/D builds, with only a couple modifications to suit WvW i.e. less power from the DA trait line, all of which is made up from Sigil of Bloodlust stacks. In sPvP, the build is EXACTLY the same, but you wouldn’t know that. I’m only pointing this out because people like you provide wrong information to people trying to learn.

too bad you are the only one on this thread that thinks that way. I’ll just ignore you like the others.

Eh? Hotcake isn’t wrong about this for sPvP…the usual 25/30/0/0/15 D/D build can also be played with D/P instead and is how I run it myself.

Its also how every single top Thief in sPvP specs, but there’s no point arguing with fools. The same build is also perfectly viable in WvW, but some people prefer 15 in Shadow Arts for perma stealth rather than a full 25 in DA since its really easy to make up that loss of power in WvW.

el oh el, every single “top” thief in spvp…

add soko d medo, he’ll give you a lesson on your 25/30/0/0/15 d/p

better yet, post a video of your 25/30/0/0/15 against his 0/10/30/30/0

or how about i give you an engi that will crush your 25/30/0/0/15 all day? add duke valens

these ppl lives in the mist, don’t tell me you couldn’t find them yo.

I belive 30 points in critical strikes are not good for p/D, you will find it hard to stay over 6 initiative inside combat and , 20 points in shadow arts are almost an must for condition removal and inititive management (IoS). Not sure too if 30 points in acrobatics are the best, i belive 20 in critical strikes are good.
So 0/20/30/20/0 or 10/20/30/10/0 build also look good

Hi, I am the author of Unseen and Deathess + Slayer Thief – and I am also a good friend of Soko D Medo. I’d like to clarify the strengths and weaknesses of Dagger/Pistol (0/10/30/30/0).

In the context of WvW, this allows you to constantly apply pressure to a disorganized zerg. As long as you are present, their Staff Eles, Rangers, Grenadiers and so on are all threatened. It doesn’t matter if you’re only able to engage 1 person at a time. You are like a living condition debuff on the entire zerg, constantly removing/disabling players one at a time. Removing you requires the attention of several players, which leaves the enemy zerg vulnerable to an allied push.

Unfortunately the most you can do to organized zergs like Red Guard is tail them (powerful in its own right, but that’s a topic for another time). When every one of your available targets is located inside a kill-zone, there is nothing your regeneration, blinds, and evasion can do to kill even one of them. Your role is to cull the weak and the lonely, and no one in Red Guard is weak or lonely. Even if you manage to catch someone away from the zerg, you have about 5 – 10 seconds to kill them before 2 more zerglings arrives.

In sPvP, the Dagger/Pistol is god mode for hot-joins and low level tournaments. Because almost everything’s a 1v1 duel. Even if 5 players hunt you, you can keep them busy as long as you play defensively.

However your utility in high level tournaments is dramatically reduced. You can duel a bunker Elementalist or Guardian for eons, but you will never be able to take the point from her (all damage is nerfed in sPvP, and every point will have a bunker on it). If you decide to ignore the bunkers, you must face the enemy 4-man group of AOE burst builds (maybe one bunker among them) – designed to wipe other 4-man groups let alone one Thief.

Dagger/Pistol only shines 100% of the time in WvW scouting, and WvW duels (although you’ll have some trouble against Phantasm Mesmers in the duels because Phantasmal duelists are almost another player unto themselves). I’ve had multiple people show me variants of Dagger/Pistol and I’ve experimented with many different modifications myself, but the only other effective implementation I’ve seen is essentially a camping perma-stealth Steal-Backstab Thief (by Noell of Jade Quarry).

Any questions?