Guild Wars 2

Perfect example of how jacked facing a thief is right now. I’m fighting a thief as a turret engie (Ya I know, but it’s fun :P). Hit him a few times and place my turrets as he enters for the kill. Pop my turret abilities and he gets perma-blinded, has like 10 seconds of burning, has 6+ stacks of bleed, Rocket Turret lands the first knockdown, I time the supply crate for the second stun, rocket turret knocks down a third time. All knockdowns in a row without him being able to act after eating the first one.

At this point the thief still has all the burning, bleeding, and now poison on him, is at 5% hp, and is stunned on his back while immobilized. Shadow Return, Hide in Shadows, runs away at half health with no conditions on him already out of combat.
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So lets add this up, shadow return removes 3 conditions, teleports you back to where you started from up to 1,200 away, and breaks stun instantly. Hide in Shadows removes all damaging conditions, so any conditions that hurt would be gone and the thief is far away stealthed and running away.

I really don’t know what more I could have done. I condition stacked, immobilized, stunned, and generally wrecked his face but he gets a get out of jail free card. I mean ya I wrecked his face because he was blatantly terrible (rocket turret knockdown is MASSIVELY telegraphed), but he still doesn’t even have to die for being terrible.

He used his skills wisely just as you did. Congrats, he ran away. you won.

Bacon Please.8407

Congrats, he ran away. you won.

I cannot agree with this statement. If he ‘won’, then why does the Thief not have to pay repair costs, walk back from the WP, and where is Ralathar’s loot bag?

Edit: And what’s to stop the Thief from coming back again, and again, and again until he wins?

Edit: Alright, in sPvP, this is a win (sort of). You get to cap the point, and the Thief does not. In WvW, where all the complaints are? How can it be construed as ‘winning’ in any way?

Bacon Please.8407:

He used his skills wisely just as you did. Congrats, he ran away. you won.

That is a draw just like it is with every other class, and I don’t get my prize money.
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Do you not understand how inherently biased that statement is? That his loss is not killing me and losing nothing, my loss is death, repairs, and a long run. His win is exp and loot, while my win is nothing.

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

He used his skills wisely just as you did. Congrats, he ran away. you won.

That is a draw just like it is with every other class, and I don’t get my prize money.

I could pull a draw on any class. Especially warrior. After hating on thief from such a long time, it is a lot harder then many other classes. I thought when I first started playing It was gonna be faceroll easy but it is the hardest class i’ve played yet, the only class i haven’t played is ranger. That being said. Some fights you just won’t win. Some fights you can’t win. if you got him down to 5% chances are he had one hit left and used his ohcrap button to escape. So yes, I would say you won.

The best way to beat a thief is to play a thief. This is coming from a warrior main and let me tell you, it really works.

i can’t even beat other thieves and i’m a thief

These guys did it right spam AOE and CC. http://youtu.be/hD6NJVTOf-g?t=1m59s

Bacon Please.8407:

The best way to beat a thief is to play a thief. This is coming from a warrior main and let me tell you, it really works.

I play a thief as well. Their frailty is exaggerated as are their “counters”. The only thing my glass thief fears is binding blades.

Bacon Please.8407:

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

He used his skills wisely just as you did. Congrats, he ran away. you won.

That is a draw just like it is with every other class, and I don’t get my prize money.

I could pull a draw on any class. Especially warrior. After hating on thief from such a long time, it is a lot harder then many other classes. I thought when I first started playing It was gonna be faceroll easy but it is the hardest class i’ve played yet, the only class i haven’t played is ranger. That being said. Some fights you just won’t win. Some fights you can’t win. if you got him down to 5% chances are he had one hit left and used his ohcrap button to escape. So yes, I would say you won.

You just picked the class with the second best escaping ability and say that every class can ‘pull a draw’.

Where’s my Engineer’s 1200 range teleport? Why can’t every class have as good an ‘oh crap’ button as stealth + Shadowstep/Infiltrator’s Arrow?

Bacon Please.8407:

The best way to beat a thief is to play a thief. This is coming from a warrior main and let me tell you, it really works.

I have a Thief. Nobody can catch me, not even another Thief. Stealth lets me literally walk away from every encounter that I don’t want to fight anymore/cannot win.

Phoenixfudge.5290:

These guys did it right spam AOE and CC. http://youtu.be/hD6NJVTOf-g?t=1m59s

You know if he just pressed Shadow Refuge earlier, he would have been able to escape right?

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

The best way to beat a thief is to play a thief. This is coming from a warrior main and let me tell you, it really works.

I play a thief as well. Their frailty is exaggerated as are their “counters”. The only thing my glass thief fears is binding blades.

Then perhaps it is your playstyle as an engineer and not the the thief. Personally I would of never used turrets against a thief. I would of probably went grenade or bomb kid.

Phoenixfudge.5290:

These guys did it right spam AOE and CC. http://youtu.be/hD6NJVTOf-g?t=1m59s

You’ve got to be kidding me, he delivered himself gift wrapped to them and even he admits he totally screwed up in his vidoe description. It only too 2 bunker ele’s and an grenade engineer to capitalize on it too.

Posts like these are why people think all thieves are full of it.

Sunflowers.1729:

Bacon Please.8407:

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

He used his skills wisely just as you did. Congrats, he ran away. you won.

That is a draw just like it is with every other class, and I don’t get my prize money.

I could pull a draw on any class. Especially warrior. After hating on thief from such a long time, it is a lot harder then many other classes. I thought when I first started playing It was gonna be faceroll easy but it is the hardest class i’ve played yet, the only class i haven’t played is ranger. That being said. Some fights you just won’t win. Some fights you can’t win. if you got him down to 5% chances are he had one hit left and used his ohcrap button to escape. So yes, I would say you won.

You just picked the class with the second best escaping ability and say that every class can ‘pull a draw’.

Where’s my Engineer’s 1200 range teleport? Why can’t every class have as good an ‘oh crap’ button as stealth + Shadowstep/Infiltrator’s Arrow?

Bacon Please.8407:

The best way to beat a thief is to play a thief. This is coming from a warrior main and let me tell you, it really works.

I have a Thief. Nobody can catch me, not even another Thief. Stealth lets me literally walk away from every encounter that I don’t want to fight anymore/cannot win.

Engineers and thieves are two entirely different classes. It is like comparing candy to steak. Both can be tasty and have their appealing characteristics and neither are better then the other. I’ve seen an engineer face tank a well coordinated team of players and down two of the 5 before escaping. I Can’t say I’ve seen a thief operate that well other then a few assorted videos here on the forums and ever there it looked like the people that were being killed had no idea what they were doing.

Bacon Please.8407:

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

The best way to beat a thief is to play a thief. This is coming from a warrior main and let me tell you, it really works.

I play a thief as well. Their frailty is exaggerated as are their “counters”. The only thing my glass thief fears is binding blades.

Then perhaps it is your playstyle as an engineer and not the the thief. Personally I would of never used turrets against a thief. I would of probably went grenade or bomb kid.

Honestly it doesn’t matter what kit, build, or class I was using. He was at 5% hp with high stacks/durations of multiple conditions, stunned, and immobilized. The only thing I didn’t do is instantly spike him with glass cannon DPS. I wouldn’t advise being glass cannon to counter thieves either.

Bacon Please.8407:

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

The best way to beat a thief is to play a thief. This is coming from a warrior main and let me tell you, it really works.

I play a thief as well. Their frailty is exaggerated as are their “counters”. The only thing my glass thief fears is binding blades.

Then perhaps it is your playstyle as an engineer and not the the thief. Personally I would of never used turrets against a thief. I would of probably went grenade or bomb kid.

The fact that he did that well against a theif with Turrets is beyond my understanding. Because turrets are the worst thing in this game (arguably). So it seems he did his fair share of well timed and played movements. Its ignorant to deny the fact that Thieves have it way too good for engaging/disengaging. Its a shame Arena Net gave them massive burst too. Oh well – their the favoured class for this game. Shame…

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

The best way to beat a thief is to play a thief. This is coming from a warrior main and let me tell you, it really works.

I play a thief as well. Their frailty is exaggerated as are their “counters”. The only thing my glass thief fears is binding blades.

Then perhaps it is your playstyle as an engineer and not the the thief. Personally I would of never used turrets against a thief. I would of probably went grenade or bomb kid.

Honestly it doesn’t matter what kit, build, or class I was using. He was at 5% hp with high stacks/durations of multiple conditions, stunned, and immobilized. The only thing I didn’t do is instantly spike him with glass cannon DPS. I wouldn’t advise being glass cannon to counter thieves either.

Again, some fights you won’t win. My warrior can’t kill a mesmer but my thief eats then up. My thief has a hard time killing guardians but on my warrior i destroy them. I’m not saying that an engineer can’t kill a thief. Change your playstyle. What runes are you running, gear, traits etc. perhaps you aren’t setup for 1v1 while the thief is .

One of the things I had to come to terms with concerning thieves is that a draw is sometimes the best that can be hoped for. It can be a similar case for d/d eles and mesmers as well, even warriors if they have a highly mobile spec (i.e. sword and greatsword).

Such classes can have numerous abilities that allow them to choose when the fight ends, so it can be difficult to get around that unless you play your cards exactly right. Engg has arguably the worst micro-mobility in the game (although necros are a solid contender for that title), so professions/builds that can easily end a fight in such a manner can be tough to deal with.

This may not always be a “draw” though. For instance, if the scenario you described occurred in sPvP on a capture node, you would have actually one since you would now capture the node and thief was unable to gain their team points. The thief would possibly also be compelled to return to the fight to not lose the point and could possibly be killed since he didn’t run away.

However, this sounds like it was in WvW, so this is just something you will have to come to terms with. I guess if you were fighting over the supply camp you maybe would’ve “won”, but that scenario would be extremely rare (at least in the mid-upper tiers).

At the very least, thieves don’t have their infinite distance infiltrator’s strike anymore, and ele’s RTL is not as powerful, so they can’t just re-engage you for free non-stop like they used to be able to.

Careful with those turrets too, thieves can just CnD off them until they decide they’re ready to fight again.

Bacon Please.8407:

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

The best way to beat a thief is to play a thief. This is coming from a warrior main and let me tell you, it really works.

I play a thief as well. Their frailty is exaggerated as are their “counters”. The only thing my glass thief fears is binding blades.

Then perhaps it is your playstyle as an engineer and not the the thief. Personally I would of never used turrets against a thief. I would of probably went grenade or bomb kid.

Honestly it doesn’t matter what kit, build, or class I was using. He was at 5% hp with high stacks/durations of multiple conditions, stunned, and immobilized. The only thing I didn’t do is instantly spike him with glass cannon DPS. I wouldn’t advise being glass cannon to counter thieves either.

Again, some fights you won’t win. My warrior can’t kill a mesmer but my thief eats then up. My thief has a hard time killing guardians but on my warrior i destroy them. I’m not saying that an engineer can’t kill a thief. Change your playstyle. What runes are you running, gear, traits etc. perhaps you aren’t setup for 1v1 while the thief is .

So what kills a good thief?

Yamsandjams.3267:

Careful with those turrets too, thieves can just CnD off them until they decide they’re ready to fight again.

Yeah, that’s why I bombed them on him leading with flame turret and it’s pulsing blind.

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

The best way to beat a thief is to play a thief. This is coming from a warrior main and let me tell you, it really works.

I play a thief as well. Their frailty is exaggerated as are their “counters”. The only thing my glass thief fears is binding blades.

Then perhaps it is your playstyle as an engineer and not the the thief. Personally I would of never used turrets against a thief. I would of probably went grenade or bomb kid.

Honestly it doesn’t matter what kit, build, or class I was using. He was at 5% hp with high stacks/durations of multiple conditions, stunned, and immobilized. The only thing I didn’t do is instantly spike him with glass cannon DPS. I wouldn’t advise being glass cannon to counter thieves either.

Again, some fights you won’t win. My warrior can’t kill a mesmer but my thief eats then up. My thief has a hard time killing guardians but on my warrior i destroy them. I’m not saying that an engineer can’t kill a thief. Change your playstyle. What runes are you running, gear, traits etc. perhaps you aren’t setup for 1v1 while the thief is .

So what kills a good thief?

Clearly not what you are running. What traits, gear, runes are you trying to run. Again i would never run turrets against a thief and hope to win, the fact that you got them down to 5% is beyond me. Personally on my engineer I run Elixers with Tool kit and a rifle. The block you get from tool kit can save your butt and it also has a lot of high damaging utilities. With your rifle and tool kit you should be able to keep away/pull thieves to you.

Okay so you used stuns, conditions, and have stationary summons. The other player used a stunbreaker, condition removal, and a heal. He then also decided to get away from your super-charged stationary ai, and for some reason you have a problem with that. You did a good job at getting him low, the thief did an alright job at reacting to your attack (he def shouldn’t have jumped into a turret infested hell in the first place). What you could have done is played closer to the thief’s shadow return location or swapped to a differnet kit/your weapon to attack the 5% thief and down him in 1 hit.

Last thing to note. Thief is a bouncy class, engi is a king of the hill class. It doesn’t matter what the thief does, if the engi doesn’t want to leave their hill, they aren’t leaving the hill. If the thief wants to bounce, he’s going to bounce. Not to mention engis have a plethora of cc skills to help said bouncy thief bounce even more.

guild wars 2 is not balanced for 1 vs 1.

u want him dead? have a second player to jump him.

Wrong build against the class. i’m a P/D thief and I can’t kill D/P thieves.

You counter a get out of jail free button by clipping the red wire.

Sunflowers.1729:

Bacon Please.8407

Congrats, he ran away. you won.

I cannot agree with this statement. If he ‘won’, then why does the Thief not have to pay repair costs, walk back from the WP, and where is Ralathar’s loot bag?

Edit: And what’s to stop the Thief from coming back again, and again, and again until he wins?

Edit: Alright, in sPvP, this is a win (sort of). You get to cap the point, and the Thief does not. In WvW, where all the complaints are? How can it be construed as ‘winning’ in any way?

I don’t kill people just to force them to walk and repair bills. I kill people because it’s fun. If he runs away, I don’t get that satisfaction, but I still won

WereDragon.6083:

i’m a P/D thief and I can’t kill D/P thieves.

Nobody can kill a D/P thief.

bladie.5084:

WereDragon.6083:

i’m a P/D thief and I can’t kill D/P thieves.

Nobody can kill a D/P thief.

I am D/P and I have been killed. Therefore your statement is flawed

Bacon Please.8407:

bladie.5084:

WereDragon.6083:

i’m a P/D thief and I can’t kill D/P thieves.

Nobody can kill a D/P thief.

I am D/P and I have been killed. Therefore your statement is flawed

You caught the bait. Nerf stealth.

bladie.5084:

Bacon Please.8407:

bladie.5084:

WereDragon.6083:

i’m a P/D thief and I can’t kill D/P thieves.

Nobody can kill a D/P thief.

I am D/P and I have been killed. Therefore your statement is flawed

You caught the bait. Nerf stealth.

Ralathar.7236:

Perfect example of how jacked facing a thief is right now. I’m fighting a thief as a turret engie (Ya I know, but it’s fun :P). Hit him a few times and place my turrets as he enters for the kill. Pop my turret abilities and he gets perma-blinded, has like 10 seconds of burning, has 6+ stacks of bleed, Rocket Turret lands the first knockdown, I time the supply crate for the second stun, rocket turret knocks down a third time. All knockdowns in a row without him being able to act after eating the first one.

At this point the thief still has all the burning, bleeding, and now poison on him, is at 5% hp, and is stunned on his back while immobilized. Shadow Return, Hide in Shadows, runs away at half health with no conditions on him already out of combat.
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So lets add this up, shadow return removes 3 conditions, teleports you back to where you started from up to 1,200 away, and breaks stun instantly. Hide in Shadows removes all damaging conditions, so any conditions that hurt would be gone and the thief is far away stealthed and running away.

I really don’t know what more I could have done. I condition stacked, immobilized, stunned, and generally wrecked his face but he gets a get out of jail free card. I mean ya I wrecked his face because he was blatantly terrible (rocket turret knockdown is MASSIVELY telegraphed), but he still doesn’t even have to die for being terrible.

You have 10 seconds to use Shadow Return. So, if the thief came on you using shadostep (only way to activate shadow return with the 3 conditions remover), you simply have to wait more before burn out all your abilities.
If, as I think, the thief started with steal, he didn’t have shadow return, but shadowstep, which is a break stun but doesn’t remove conditions. Anyway shadowstep + hide in shadow + remove 1 condition entering stealth + 1 every 3 seconds is a powerfull combo.
The problem is shadowstep has a long cooldown, so I suggest to put pressure on him without using CCs and make him use his shadowstep/roll for initiative to gain distance and time. When thief’s abilities are in cooldown use stun/knockdown and whatever you have.
Almost every class has powerfull escape abilities, to win you have to make your opponent waste his.

I’ve been killed by good players while in stealth.

Use the force.

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t kill people just to force them to walk and repair bills. I kill people because it’s fun. If he runs away, I don’t get that satisfaction, but I still won

That means you find it fun to just kill people.

Personally, I’d be pretty annoyed if everyone that I ‘won’ against didn’t drop any loot (it would still be fun, but less).

I still don’t agree with the ‘Thief escape = you win’ sentiment. What if we made it so any time a Thief kills someone, the Thief gets no loot or WXP? He still ‘wins’ right? But the flood of complaints would crash the forums.

You are a turret engineer. The only way he can beat you is by killing those turrets at range or waiting for them to die.

Thiefs cannot fight inside a bunch of turrets.

If it were me I would have just use shadowstep the second I got stunned and then BP+HS to remove conditions with shadows embrace. Swapped to shortbow and come back and range them down or just leave you there looking silly with a bunch of turrets.

EDIT: Turret engineer is a stationary fighter and you will not beat the most mobile class in the game with the LEAST mobile class in the game.

There’s an argument that the thief is using a utility to escape the fight, but you’re using your utility to ‘win’ the fight in your eyes. Would you have ‘won’ the fight without using your utility slots?

Ralathar.7236:

Perfect example of how jacked facing a thief is right now. I’m fighting a thief as a turret engie (Ya I know, but it’s fun :P). Hit him a few times and place my turrets as he enters for the kill. Pop my turret abilities and he gets perma-blinded, has like 10 seconds of burning, has 6+ stacks of bleed, Rocket Turret lands the first knockdown, I time the supply crate for the second stun, rocket turret knocks down a third time. All knockdowns in a row without him being able to act after eating the first one.

At this point the thief still has all the burning, bleeding, and now poison on him, is at 5% hp, and is stunned on his back while immobilized. Shadow Return, Hide in Shadows, runs away at half health with no conditions on him already out of combat.
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So lets add this up, shadow return removes 3 conditions, teleports you back to where you started from up to 1,200 away, and breaks stun instantly. Hide in Shadows removes all damaging conditions, so any conditions that hurt would be gone and the thief is far away stealthed and running away.

I really don’t know what more I could have done. I condition stacked, immobilized, stunned, and generally wrecked his face but he gets a get out of jail free card. I mean ya I wrecked his face because he was blatantly terrible (rocket turret knockdown is MASSIVELY telegraphed), but he still doesn’t even have to die for being terrible.

why they ar hating us !

And that thief probably posted on the Engie section “How to counter an Engie that can almost perma lockdown a thief” and blame the engie for being OP ^^ :P

1a) Fight closer to his shadowstep point (there’s a buff on his list if he used shadowstep and a white circle where he started the shadowstep)
1b) Bunker for 10-15s so his shadow return disappears and he loses the condition removal (or retreats out of safety)
1c) Force him to use shadow return before unleashing your true fury (with your weapons for example instead of the turrets (=true fury) which are your utilities if i’m not wrong)
2) Pressure when he’s about to heal
3) Denying the healing can do a lot.

Note on (1a): If he’s wielding a sword mainhand he could use a multistep shadowstep, in which case it’ll be harder to guess where the exact point is that you have to fight close at. I for example sometimes use 3-4 shadowsteps in a row (sword infiltrator’s strike, utility shadowstep, utility infiltrator’s signet and F action steal) for a very long gap close that mostly suprises enemy more than a stealthed attack and causes my enemy to react slower than otherwise, granting me sometimes my win.

Excalibur.9748:

i can’t even beat other thieves and i’m a thief

That’s ’cuz thieves are OP! Even in thief v thief fights!

Sunflowers.1729:

Bacon Please.8407

Congrats, he ran away. you won.

I cannot agree with this statement. If he ‘won’, then why does the Thief not have to pay repair costs, walk back from the WP, and where is Ralathar’s loot bag?

If Ralathar wants loot bags, he should just run in a zerg. Or better yet, farm stelks in the Karka Land.
You don’t solo for loot, you do it for differend reasons that can include good fights, ego stomps and griefing / trolling.

Bacon Please.8407:

Sunflowers.1729:

Bacon Please.8407:

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

He used his skills wisely just as you did. Congrats, he ran away. you won.

That is a draw just like it is with every other class, and I don’t get my prize money.

I could pull a draw on any class. Especially warrior. After hating on thief from such a long time, it is a lot harder then many other classes. I thought when I first started playing It was gonna be faceroll easy but it is the hardest class i’ve played yet, the only class i haven’t played is ranger. That being said. Some fights you just won’t win. Some fights you can’t win. if you got him down to 5% chances are he had one hit left and used his ohcrap button to escape. So yes, I would say you won.

You just picked the class with the second best escaping ability and say that every class can ‘pull a draw’.

Where’s my Engineer’s 1200 range teleport? Why can’t every class have as good an ‘oh crap’ button as stealth + Shadowstep/Infiltrator’s Arrow?

Bacon Please.8407:

The best way to beat a thief is to play a thief. This is coming from a warrior main and let me tell you, it really works.

I have a Thief. Nobody can catch me, not even another Thief. Stealth lets me literally walk away from every encounter that I don’t want to fight anymore/cannot win.

Engineers and thieves are two entirely different classes. It is like comparing candy to steak. Both can be tasty and have their appealing characteristics and neither are better then the other. I’ve seen an engineer face tank a well coordinated team of players and down two of the 5 before escaping. I Can’t say I’ve seen a thief operate that well other then a few assorted videos here on the forums and ever there it looked like the people that were being killed had no idea what they were doing.

Dude, ofc stake is better. And you know it!

Ralathar.7236:

Bacon Please.8407:

He used his skills wisely just as you did. Congrats, he ran away. you won.

That is a draw just like it is with every other class, and I don’t get my prize money.

Winning depends on the rules of the game and in WvW winning is not defined by defeating player characters and incurring repair bills. You would help your server more by working towards the goals that do help them win in WvW.

Sunflowers.1729:

I have a Thief. Nobody can catch me, not even another Thief. Stealth lets me literally walk away from every encounter that I don’t want to fight anymore/cannot win.

This is an RPG, where all classes are not created equal, but where each class has it’s own strengths and weaknesses. The thief’s pre-meditated strength is it’s ability to get away from a fight. Or as you put it, use the get-out-of-jail card. Rather fitting for a class named ‘thief’, I’d say.

this is exactly what a thief is…..stay back and wait to pick your fight….. why is this fair? bc he cant wade into a battle and do much :P he has to pick a fight on the outskirts. stealth builds suck in spvp/tpvp…..even in pve thieves are teh worst/tied for worst. so wvw is the one highlight a thief has bc of open area and roaming choice. let em have it. necros guardians rangers love spvp/tpvp. let em have it.

I think the best thing to do is assume every thief you fight has shadow return and go fight in the direction where you saw him come from (If you happened to see). The closer you are to the shadow return spot, the better.

If you let the thief chose the spot to fight, you won’t be able to kill him

shadow return no longer has long range :P it was nerfed. no worries about that anymore. even so you only have to survive 10-14 seconds from the time of use before the nerf

I don’t get the problem – the Thief’s status bar will tell you that he has initiated a Shadowstep maneuver (if you somehow didn’t spot the teleport in your direction). If you wanted to lock him down for good, you should have shifted yourself further towards his origin before setting up shop.

Quite simply, you’re playing a static build against a mobile one. Rock/paper/scissors.

In this thread:
“Your class has X. X is really cool, especially because my class doesn’t have it. Since I am not considering that I have Y and your class doesn’t, X looks OP. I think this is unfair!?

Dahkeus.8243:

In this thread:
“Your class has X. X is really cool, especially because my class doesn’t have it. Since I am not considering that I have Y and your class doesn’t, X looks OP. I think this is unfair!?

Nice summary bro.

Let me explain how you won:

He was fighting you and you beat him, he was forced to run, now you have the Camp/Tower/Spvp point… Your server/group/team is winning and put ahead quite a bit, the thief is out of the fight for 45+ seconds because of all the cool-downs he has to go through, you may think that thief is just ezmode, but we have cool-downs on our most powerful moves too.

yes shadow return cooldown is like 50s for the utility, effectively 15 seconds for the weapon skill. hide in shadow 30s.

There was nothing you could’ve done and the thief is the only profession that can do this. That’s why people are all up in arms about them.

Yet the fix is very simple.

Stealth is a very powerful game mechanic, especially when you can pop in and out throughout a fight and while in stealth you have at least half a dozen benefits.

Condition removal
Initiative Regen
+50% movement speed
Hp Regen
The enemy not being able to use any target based skills against you

This isn’t too bad because they heal poorly out of stealth, they can have the 33% movement speed that every other profession can get but no more, people can actually use the bulk of their skills against them, all while they are out of stealth.

The problem? If they are about to lose, they can escape ANY situation they are in no matter how bad it is. Case in point is the OP’s post.

SR should be an ambush skill. For use out of combat only.

HS should be a finishing move, and not another autoattack, so the initiative cost needs an increase.

Make BP a dark field.