Guild Wars 2

Going to be pretty short on this, as I’m trying to my hardest not to let my anger govern this post. However anger is what finally pushed me to make my first post about a real issue.

I don’t play spvp, so I don’t know if this is an issue there, but in WvW perma-stealth thieves are pretty much beyond ridiculous and into the absurdity level. Two of my friends have quit playing this game entirely because of thieves, mesmers.. thieves, mesmers… repeat. I told them that mesmers are simply a learning situation, but thieves? No buddy. Who ever designed thieves were just one of those spoiled kids that would cry if they didn’t get whatever they want. so enough with the ramble, I said i’d be short.

Thieves IMO are completely busted in WvW because of how intangible they are to catch. But guess what? it’s not because of their stealth. let them be invisible all day, I don’t care.

Shadow step is the problem. Cut the range of that move in half. I have faced off against actual speed hackers before, and let me tell you, I always have to pay real close attention to whether it’s a real speed hacker or a shadows stepping thief.
I’d like to see what you guys think though. Surely I don’t know everything.

Maybe if players stopped complaining about thieves, arenanet’s papers would start showing that thieves aren’t as much of a problem. Then thieves would actually start getting nice things and the whole profession wouldn’t be forced to play d/d to be completely viable. Afterwards you will start seeing less permastealth and backstabs because everything thieves have complained about in regards to their profession finally gets fixed.

At least you came to the forums in a rational fashion.

I agree, so many people complain about the wrong things with thieves when it is simply a L2 play issue, this case what I am speaking of is a very specific situation that applies to WvW only. These guys are blinking around with 1200 range so frequently escaping everything. Why? I cannot understand why. They are so entirely favored it’s undeniable. Blinking up on bridges, teleporting behind entire zergs, completely choosing when they want to lose or win. If you have seen one of these thieves, then you know that this is no exaggeration, this is a problem.

So, mesmers are ok, but thieves are imbalanced due to Shadowstep (50 second cooldown, 1200 range). You’re aware that the mesmer version has a 30 second cooldown, right? And that its 900 range can be increased to 1200?

You also may have missed the patch last week, where the traits that enabled permastealth got nerfed (a nerf which most thieves here supported)

Sometimes i wanna write something here but people is so boring that i don’t know what i can say.
What a thief should do? Explain us what a thief class should do.
I cannot understand why there are classes that can put on stability and invulnerability and running away but hey, thieves can blink up on bridges! nerf them!

Edit: mesmers can blink in the same way.

People get engraged that thieves can escape fights. They miss the fact that, if the thief is fleeing, that doesn’t mean the thief won.

mesmer black water build seriously needs a nerf more than anything in the entire game right now, I dont even want to fight them anymore

Shadow Step, the actually utility skill, is on a 50 sec CD untraited and 40 traited. It has a 1200range, breaks a stun on both casts (you can only cast the second part in a 10 second window), and removes 3 conditions on the 2nd cast. Besides Infiltrator’s Signet, this is usually the only stun break. A thief would only use this for the stun break or avoid getting zerged down. We are a melee centric class, meaning most of our damage is within 130 range unless you run p/p. Having a thief jump 1200 units means me can’t hit you AT ALL, considering he has a max range of 900. Every other class has 1200 range, so you should have an advantage.

Yes you can use it to run away, but a good thief would save SS for when he needed it (IE warrior stunlock?). The thief is about mobility, remove that and we have nothing besides stealth, which ANet nerfs every month because of fairweathers who don’t know how to pvp.

Oghier.7419:

People get engraged that thieves can escape fights. They miss the fact that, if the thief is fleeing, that doesn’t mean the thief won.

They also miss the fact that there are other classes that can do the same things, but in this game if a thief does something is OP and deserve to be nerfed.
Guess becouse people need their scapegoat.
So what’s next? mobility nerf?

Aaroneous.6190:

Who ever designed thieves were just one of those spoiled kids that would cry if they didn’t get whatever they want. so enough with the ramble, I said i’d be short.

Thieves IMO are completely busted in WvW because of how intangible they are to catch.

Another point. I assume that english is not your first language, but posts that rely on “I am really angry” and “you are a spoiled kid who cries” have never changed anyone’s mind about anything, in any language.

If you are having problems with shadowstep then let me tell you a good way to counter it….

The whole point of it is avoidance. To counter it all you need to do is get close to their Shadow Return spot. By closing the gap, the thief will have to reposition itself away from you to make shadow return effective again.

If you think thieves are hard to catch you clearly haven’t come across any terribly mobile warriors.

A high mobility warrior I cannot catch on my thief once he gets away from me. If I don’t stop him from getting away to begin with, I just can’t catch him.

Ezekiel.1985:

If you think thieves are hard to catch you clearly haven’t come across any terribly mobile warriors.

A high mobility warrior I cannot catch on my thief once he gets away from me. If I don’t stop him from getting away to begin with, I just can’t catch him.

I run a chasing/lockdown build and still have a hard time with mobility warriors. It still takes me from a camp to a tower to kill them, or they escape.

Oghier.7419:

Aaroneous.6190:

Who ever designed thieves were just one of those spoiled kids that would cry if they didn’t get whatever they want. so enough with the ramble, I said i’d be short.

Thieves IMO are completely busted in WvW because of how intangible they are to catch.

Another point. I assume that english is not your first language, but posts that rely on “I am really angry” and “you are a spoiled kid who cries” have never changed anyone’s mind about anything, in any language.

Can’t think of anything else to complain about?
He got his point across, that’s all that matters.

iBlasiannn.4279:

Aaroneous.6190:

Going to be pretty short on this, as I’m trying to my hardest not to let my anger govern this post. However anger is what finally pushed me to make my first post about a real issue.

I don’t play spvp, so I don’t know if this is an issue there, but in WvW perma-stealth thieves are pretty much beyond ridiculous and into the absurdity level.

Thieves IMO are completely busted in WvW because of how intangible they are to catch. But guess what? it’s not because of their stealth. let them be invisible all day, I don’t care.

Shadow step is the problem. Cut the range of that move in half. I have faced off against actual speed hackers before, and let me tell you, I always have to pay real close attention to whether it’s a real speed hacker or a shadows stepping thief.
I’d like to see what you guys think though. Surely I don’t know everything.

You complain about Perma-stealth thieves. I felt a point coming on, but you completely changed your argument to shadowstep. I don’t understand you stating that Perma-Stealth thieves then in order to argue your point about Shadow step.
The basis of your argument is basically that a thief can disengage from any fight if he pleases, and this is very true, but then you bring up the topic of speed-hackers. I have not seen a speed hacker since the the first two months the game has been out, and I highly doubt it is a high enough occurrence for you to make the comparison between a “speed-hacker” and a thief that is using shadow steps. In my 3000+ hours played on thief and 90% of that time occupied by WvW, I can say I have never seen a speed hacker. The thief is supposed to be a highly mobile class. The problem is I don’t see the problem with the shadow stepping mechanic as a tool to disengage. Yes it seems broken, but if a thief is running from you in a fight, you in a sense have won the fight. If they run to get OOC and come back to try again, then the fight has reset for both parties. What is the problem?

Oghier.7419:

Aaroneous.6190:

Who ever designed thieves were just one of those spoiled kids that would cry if they didn’t get whatever they want. so enough with the ramble, I said i’d be short.

Thieves IMO are completely busted in WvW because of how intangible they are to catch.

Another point. I assume that english is not your first language, but posts that rely on “I am really angry” and “you are a spoiled kid who cries” have never changed anyone’s mind about anything, in any language.

I’m surprised you aren’t digging into mrmadhaze’s post. Oh wait, nevermind. He’s defending the thief’s mobility.

iBlasiannn.4279:

Aaroneous.6190:

Going to be pretty short on this, as I’m trying to my hardest not to let my anger govern this post. However anger is what finally pushed me to make my first post about a real issue.

I don’t play spvp, so I don’t know if this is an issue there, but in WvW perma-stealth thieves are pretty much beyond ridiculous and into the absurdity level.

Thieves IMO are completely busted in WvW because of how intangible they are to catch. But guess what? it’s not because of their stealth. let them be invisible all day, I don’t care.

Shadow step is the problem. Cut the range of that move in half. I have faced off against actual speed hackers before, and let me tell you, I always have to pay real close attention to whether it’s a real speed hacker or a shadows stepping thief.
I’d like to see what you guys think though. Surely I don’t know everything.

You complain about Perma-stealth thieves. I felt a point coming on, but you completely changed your argument to shadowstep. I don’t understand you stating that Perma-Stealth thieves then in order to argue your point about Shadow step.
The basis of your argument is basically that a thief can disengage from any fight if he pleases, and this is very true, but then you bring up the topic of speed-hackers. I have not seen a speed hacker since the the first two months the game has been out, and I highly doubt it is a high enough occurrence for you to make the comparison between a “speed-hacker” and a thief that is using shadow steps. The thief is supposed to be a highly mobile class. The problem is I don’t see the problem with the shadow stepping mechanic as a tool to disengage. Yes it seems broken, but if a thief is running from you in a fight, you in a sense have won the fight. If they run to get OOC and come back to try again, then the fight has reset for both parties. What is the problem?

Basically, its the exp and loot bags. A secondary issue is that a thief who can time his disengagement well can reset the fight until he gets lucky, or just wear you down.
I don’t usually have a problem with this second one, but I’ve seen it posted a lot on the forums so I have to assume there are some jerks who just stalk people until they win.

Given that thieves have no blocks, no access to protection, medium armor, low hit points, unimpressive healing and pretty much no defenses other than stealth and mobility… I suppose it would make things easier for everyone else if we just stood there, visible and in range for them to kill.

I’m confidant OP would find that quite “fair.”

I was pretty sure people wouldn’t stop complaing about permastealth even after they nerfed it.

Lol theives are so squishy, all we have to rely on is mobility. If anything, there’s warriors that can just stand still and destroy a theif barely even trying. We have to put in so much effort for a kill like that while they can tank entire zergs.

(Where justice is denied, where injustice is enforced, where tyranny is rewarded, where oppression is exonerated, where one class is made to feel entitled to having everything, where one class is given full power- full privilege to commit any unjust act at will, simply…..evil)

Great Post, OP.

I completely agree with everything you stated and i admire your peaceful way of approaching and fighting this overdue, intentional and unjust matter.

As the saying goes, "Better to die fighting for freedom then be a prisoner all the days of your life”

May the day of our Liberty and Freedom cometh,
May the day of our Fear depart us,
May our chains break,
when thief is completely redesign.

you cant speedhack in Gw2, thieves cant perma stealth either.
#trollpost

Thieves are pretty much a learning curve too, Unless your like a full glass ranger/staff ele.

In which case i have nothing to say to you.

may i suggest playing one. go ahead…hop on a thief…get in that zerg. you will see how good you arent not being mean…just the truth. if u main on warrior/guardian u will be embarassed how bad you are when you finally play thief. thief takes skill. so we can be very good but still close to useless in zergs/bigger fights.

aLovedhater.4096:

you cant speedhack in Gw2, thieves cant perma stealth either.
#trollpost

ive seen it. all kinds of diff classes just speed blinking forward and porting around map. some flying. 50% speed buff hacks. all kinds of wierdness. ive seen warrior have ele skills…. wierd stuff.

Most will disagree I’m sure, but it’s true. People want thief nerfed down till it’s no longer a class in this game.

People cry about something a thief did that other classes can do, that isn’t at over powered. Forget the other class(es); it only matters that it is nerfed for the thief.
We get nerfed.
People cry about something else that they were completely fine with a month ago.
We get nerfed.
People cry about something else that they were completely fine with two months ago.
We get nerfed.
People cry about something else that they were completely fine with three months ago.
We get nerfed.
People cry.. you get the picture.

Bye to shadow step next month I guess, plus a further ‘build diversity’ update that removes all our other stun breakers, following a monthly nerf to our damage, conditions, stealth, boons blah blah blah. Thieves shouldn’t have a healing skill or elite skill because they have deceptive utilities. Thieves should have 1 utility slot not three because one skill can be used twice within a 10 second window. Thieves shouldn’t have an energy pool because they have hard to catch (LOL). Deny it now but it’s bound to be said eventually.

And while you’re at it, buff warrior damage and nerf ours; nerf our evades but let a ranger keep their’s on top of spirits; nerf our stealth but let a mesmer have it on top of clones and phantasms.Thief will be gone from the game and still have people complaining it’s too over powered.

Aaroneous.6190:

just one of those spoiled kids that would cry if they didn’t get whatever they want.

Hmm.

More constructively, thieves do destroy certain specs, and certain compositions. No denying that. So don’t use those. Any combination of AoE, CC, and survivability will ruin a thief’s plans.

complain about theif mobility while warrior mobility was there. gg

Small scale combat in wvwvw is the O-N-L-Y Thing we’re good at. We deserve to be best and very slippery in it when we’re obsolete for everything else.

If you nerf us is small scale combat, How do you want thief to play suggest an spec please.

Aaroneous.6190:

Going to be pretty short on this, as I’m trying to my hardest not to let my anger govern this post. However anger is what finally pushed me to make my first post about a real issue.

I don’t play spvp, so I don’t know if this is an issue there, but in WvW perma-stealth thieves are pretty much beyond ridiculous and into the absurdity level. Two of my friends have quit playing this game entirely because of thieves, mesmers.. thieves, mesmers… repeat. I told them that mesmers are simply a learning situation, but thieves? No buddy. Who ever designed thieves were just one of those spoiled kids that would cry if they didn’t get whatever they want. so enough with the ramble, I said i’d be short.

Thieves IMO are completely busted in WvW because of how intangible they are to catch. But guess what? it’s not because of their stealth. let them be invisible all day, I don’t care.

Shadow step is the problem. Cut the range of that move in half. I have faced off against actual speed hackers before, and let me tell you, I always have to pay real close attention to whether it’s a real speed hacker or a shadows stepping thief.
I’d like to see what you guys think though. Surely I don’t know everything.

l2p plox.

I love how noobs complain about thieves being op then anet caters to them and nerfs us into oblivion… and yet buff every other class every “balancing patch” Oo the thief hits to hard lol I have a buddy that ran a burst mes build that hit for over 20k in 2 hits, there is a video of a zerker warrior running axe that was hitting guardians for 16k with one hit, and then Oo perma stealth is op, again same Mesmer buddy was able to out stealth me running d/d, unless I would fight a noob that didn’t know how to dodge cloak and dagger, and on top of that every time he goes invis he gets a clone to burst for almost 10k damage, now shadow step is op, hahaha the thief is one of the slowest classes in the game now cause warriors run there little greatsword leaps and dashes, rangers use greatsword leaps, mes just blink and go invis, most classes can almost if not get perma swiftness, thieves on the other had rarely get it, unless u steal from a mes, or trait in acrobatics for a whopping 2 secs on dodge, the only way I ever caught a warrior is if I sacrifice my survivability and get long reach on the trickery line, and even then he still has a good chance to escape… funny thing about guildwars is any class can be anything they want… squishy can b a tank if u spec em right, tanks can be op damage if u spec em right, you have to sacrifice one thing for the other… play the way u like, take ur loses and deal with it, everyone dies… I will admit I pulled off some amazing things on my thief but the ppl I just killed don’t realize is before I some how managed to wreck 5 of them I just died 10 times b4 that fight lol… you have ur goods and ur bads it happens… Its funny I never heard of anyone complaining about op classes till the wow kiddy boomers came around, in daoc assassin had perma stealth and could one shot a lot of ppl, rangers had perma stealth and a skill call critical shot they did from stealth that could one shot ppl and no one ever complained, they understood that was what that class did, an assassin is just that u pick a target and assassinate them, now do you go for the most heavily armored target no you go for the squishy that u can put down fast and get away, I realize in gw this isn’t always the case because like a said any class here can b tanky, but in traditional mmo’s the assassins job was to take out the enemy healers/caster to help the grp they was with… sorry for the rant but it gets so old hearing about kids that have trouble in school with basic math complain about classes being op cause they don’t knw how to properly counter them

@OP, you’re lacking experience. Thieves aren’t dangerous at all, assuming you know how to deal with them. The remaining viable thief build that sticks around is x/30/30/x/x with D/D or D/P.

D/D: Take the first C&D/Steal/Backstab damage, or absorb it with an utility. If you can’t, you seriously need to bring more toughness/vitality. Bring down pressure and lower the health of the target. At this point, start using evades to get out of C&D and pressure the target to ~50% HP using simple, low-damage skills and auto-attacks. Since most run between 12K-16K HP, you should be capable of bursting the remainder of the health. As a Warrior, I love to Eviscerate into a thief for ~8K damage to get them down at that point.

D/P: I take a different approach with these builds. They use blind fields and leap through it for stealth, and as a melee-type character, that is rather annoying for me. If you’re ranged, take the advice from above. After 1~2 seconds into their stealth, I start using movement skills to get distance to avoid the Backstab. Rince and repeat, the pool of Initiative is severely limited now (Even though ArenaNet claimes it was buffed, it is not for pretty much each viable build). About ~3 times in, you should have your window to pressure and burst. If you’re area-of-effect heavy, just use that while the target is in stealth.

P/D: Conditions! Just bring enough condition remove. You should, anyway, because the current meta is a condition-heavy meta. Start cleansing as soon as a decent amount of stacks are applied. The number of conditions is limited, unlike a Necromancer, and it is easy to get rid of them.

Having played one makes them extremely predictable. Much more so than other classes.

Yes you can use it to run away, but a good thief would save SS for when he needed it

Outside of an escape/gap-closer, it’s extremely helpful with landing on a door-portal (WvW). If you’re not running stealth utilities, you’re quite limited in getting through 40+ — especially when 1/3 of them are spamming CCs.

So, a quick point, since many posters here missed it, it seems. When he referred to shadow step, he meant the teleportation mechanic, not necessarily the utility skill itself.

In a sense, the OP is right. Thief mobility can be a problem, but it can almost be countered like any other highly mobile build. Hard and soft CCs both cut down a thief’s ability to escape easily, and bringing your own teleporting or movement skills should keep them from escaping with a single button.

The problem comes from trying to actually finish the thief, as there is almost no way to lock one down long enough by yourself to kill one. In that regard, the thief -could- be considered unbalanced. However, if you roam with a small group, one thief should pose no threat, especially if all members are able to focus their CC.

One last thing I would like to touch on would be stealth combined with tele mechanics. On any class, engy, mesmer, or thief, this combination allows you to be excessively difficult to kill. I would like to propose the simple solution of don’t all stealth and movement abilities to be used together, but I think I may be in the wrong forums for that…

Oh joy!

Another thieves are OP, Thieves are a pain in the kitten , Nerf the thief thread.

Another day and another misinformed “nerf” thieves based upon complete BS…

Oh! I know! I know!

I chain Infiltrator’s Strike, Infiltrator’s Signet, and Steal together to cross a 3,000 range gap in less than a second and combined with Basilisk Venom can surprise the kitten out of people like OP who /laugh from a “safe” distance. He just feels violated, guys. It doesn’t matter that I’m blowing initiative, my steal, my elite and my signet to get to him. I’m OP because I can chain shadowsteps. He’s not actually talking about the utility Shadowstep.

So now that infiltrator’s return is nerfed, people are targeting shadowstep.

After that is nerfed, it will be shadow refuge.

Mark my words.

lol this is sad .. no matter how many times i get killed by a war in 2 hits or get blasted by an element or blown up by a engine or mesmer lol i don’t go cry on there forum and say how op that r i try harder to kill them i ask ways to get better make my build better . every time a thief kills some one they rage quit and hit the forums instead of trying to learn how to kill the thief they try to kill us with nerfs …and i am not only a thief i play guard ranger and am starting to play mesmer now because the thief is getting nerfed to death and the mesmer is insane. but now i have a thief with all this ascended gear and idk if i want to keep playing it because it sucks now . it is really lame to put all this time in to a character and then be nerfed to death . by people who have a zerg mentality and will never try to get better at playing there class. give us the stun break back on the sword or something but u got us in a wheel chair with cancer and 2 broke legs lol… ps the thief is not a support class i don’t want a lame venom heal skill and be pushed to support lol or my guard would have all this ascended gear not my thief

Aaroneous.6190:

Going to be pretty short on this, as I’m trying to my hardest not to let my anger govern this post. However anger is what finally pushed me to make my first post about a real issue.

I don’t play spvp, so I don’t know if this is an issue there, but in WvW perma-stealth thieves are pretty much beyond ridiculous and into the absurdity level. Two of my friends have quit playing this game entirely because of thieves, mesmers.. thieves, mesmers… repeat. I told them that mesmers are simply a learning situation, but thieves? No buddy. Who ever designed thieves were just one of those spoiled kids that would cry if they didn’t get whatever they want. so enough with the ramble, I said i’d be short.

Thieves IMO are completely busted in WvW because of how intangible they are to catch. But guess what? it’s not because of their stealth. let them be invisible all day, I don’t care.

Shadow step is the problem. Cut the range of that move in half. I have faced off against actual speed hackers before, and let me tell you, I always have to pay real close attention to whether it’s a real speed hacker or a shadows stepping thief.
I’d like to see what you guys think though. Surely I don’t know everything.

Yay! Finally one person who thieves can still kill. Well, you and that burnfail guy.

lol can we get for once get a buff to the thief in the game with out everyone crying like lil children and maybe just for once they learn how to play there class and fight the classes they r going up against with out people crying on our thief forums ! when i have trouble. I ask what to do ! . i don’t cry and say stealth is op WHEN I CAN JUST KNOCK OFF THE BLIND AND KILL THEM WITH OUT EVEN SEEING THE TARGET I AM SWINGING AT !!! lol people it does not take much to kill a thief ! and a tank thief/venom share support thief is the lamest thing i have ever heard of lol… IF I WANTED TO PLAY SUPPORT I WOULD HAVE ALL MY ASCENDED GEAR FOR MY GUARD !!!!!!!!!!!!! lol u know how long i tried to play thief till i was finally in a good place…. not amazing !!!!! just a good place ! then we get all these new people who just cry to get what they want give me a break . the thief sucks now.,.. and people still cry!…. its not the class it is the player ! . lol anyone try the tele nuke guard on a thief in pvp ! it can kill a thief before we have time to dodge ! …. and that was before the dec 10th nerf !!!! lol i am srry but i think the thief is now one of the worst classes in the game and i have all this ascend gear for nothing lol ….. was all my time playing this game to get all that really a total waist ! lol and i am not mad just because i keep dyeing in wvw i am mad because i have spent all my time learning how to be good with the thief and getting gear and its just like f.u that does not matter people think u r op even though they r to stupid to keep swinging when i go in to STEALTHY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if they kept swinging i would be dead lol but for some reason they did not even swing even though i would have died if they just kept hitting the SWING BUTTON .!.!.!.!.
lol it is like just because i go in stealth that mean stop swinging your wep . srry but wtf ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Aaroneous.6190:

Shadow step is the problem.

Nonsense.
/thread

Aaroneous.6190:

I agree, so many people complain about the wrong things with thieves when it is simply a L2 play issue, this case what I am speaking of is a very specific situation that applies to WvW only. These guys are blinking around with 1200 range so frequently escaping everything. Why? I cannot understand why. They are so entirely favored it’s undeniable. Blinking up on bridges, teleporting behind entire zergs, completely choosing when they want to lose or win. If you have seen one of these thieves, then you know that this is no exaggeration, this is a problem.

so why don’t thieves have to ‘l2play’ other professions to know how to beat them?

Lightsbane.9012:

Aaroneous.6190:

I agree, so many people complain about the wrong things with thieves when it is simply a L2 play issue, this case what I am speaking of is a very specific situation that applies to WvW only. These guys are blinking around with 1200 range so frequently escaping everything. Why? I cannot understand why. They are so entirely favored it’s undeniable. Blinking up on bridges, teleporting behind entire zergs, completely choosing when they want to lose or win. If you have seen one of these thieves, then you know that this is no exaggeration, this is a problem.

so why don’t thieves have to ‘l2play’ other professions to know how to beat them?

We do. Ever faced an HGH engineer or a condition stealth mesmer? You have to play and understand completely every class in order to perform at your peak in this game. The issue is that thieves have the most complex mechanics that people don’t seem to understand, which inherently gives us an advantage. You’ll never find thieves an issue in tPvP because people know the classes in said arena.

Even if it is a l2p issue , thieves can reset fights all day long . They cant be cought, they can run away whenever they want . In short, they dictate when the fight happens and how long it lasts .

Chokolata.1870:

Even if it is a l2p issue , thieves can reset fights all day long . They cant be cought, they can run away whenever they want . In short, they dictate when the fight happens and how long it lasts .

So can sword/x+GS rangers, mobility warriors, stealth mesmers, engineers in general, GS+sword/focus guardians, and x/d eles. Go complain on their forums about how they can break combat.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Lightsbane.9012:

Aaroneous.6190:

I agree, so many people complain about the wrong things with thieves when it is simply a L2 play issue, this case what I am speaking of is a very specific situation that applies to WvW only. These guys are blinking around with 1200 range so frequently escaping everything. Why? I cannot understand why. They are so entirely favored it’s undeniable. Blinking up on bridges, teleporting behind entire zergs, completely choosing when they want to lose or win. If you have seen one of these thieves, then you know that this is no exaggeration, this is a problem.

so why don’t thieves have to ‘l2play’ other professions to know how to beat them?

We do. Ever faced an HGH engineer or a condition stealth mesmer? You have to play and understand completely every class in order to perform at your peak in this game. The issue is that thieves have the most complex mechanics that people don’t seem to understand, which inherently gives us an advantage. You’ll never find thieves an issue in tPvP because people know the classes in said arena.

yup. played both. played thief after: found fighting them incredibly easy. even easier than when i was on an engineer fighting a stealth mesmer. (as a thief player you have no right complaining about that though now do ya?)

Alright thanks for the replies everyone. I can see where a lot of people stand on this. So I think I need to be a little more clear perhaps. I’m not going to bash some of you for being angry, hell that was why I made this post. However Most comments disagreeing were going off in a weird direction, so let me try to be a little more clear.

Basically between the synergy of all of their stealth, traits such as “blind on stealth” AND shadow step, etc, etc. Then suddenly they become unpunishable. I am not basing my experiences on 1v1 situations. I am going off of the countless times I have witnessed a thief completely let down their guard, slack off, or simply not apply themselves to a fight in 1v5, up to 1v8 scenarios to then suddenly say “You know what? I dont want to die right now, in fact I dont have to at all because I say so, because I am thief”

No other class can do this. Why is this a problem? Because everything is subject to change in WvW at all times. I’m not sure how many of you know, but there are other players you have to worry about in WvW other than thieves. These thieves, simply take too long to be dealt with and thus waste too much time, sure you may have them on the defensive but they are still there and cannot be ignored.

I want to emphasize this, as examples are hard pressed to convince alot of the know it all “thieves are easy” psuedo pros who cant comprehend that the issue is not about a thief being to difficult to defeat.

The issue here is that thieves simply have too many “I wanna go home mommy” buttons . They are not punished for their mistakes. My Friend Shellbullet made a thief to 80. His words were: “Assuming you truly know what youre doing with a thief in WvW, You have no excuse to ever die, and no excuse to ever lose a 1v1 situation except against very specific countering builds”. (Were on maguuma btw if you ever want to duel us in wvw.)

So once more. I simply think that shadow step is that last needle on the haystack that pulls a thief out of a situation in which they should have had to avoid death the fair way like every other class (warriors as well, with all their mobility). Yes a 50 second cool down, but you get 2 teleports out of it, and in all of that down time you are stealthed 85%. So please apply your mind to grasp that it’s not the move on it’s own but rather how it is potentially overly effective in conjunction with all of the thief’s kitten nal.

I think that by shaving shadow step a little bit, and not touching any stealth aspects, it would force thieves to have to actually try a bit harder like the rest of the cast as far as surviving. I am even all for supplying thieves with a buff to a weaker aspect of thief. Personally dont believe they have one, but perhaps some specs are unplayable. I wouldnt know. I am very fair about it, their mobility just seems unfair to me.

Thanks guys.