Guild Wars 2

Aaroneous.6190:

they become unpunishable… thieves simply have too many “I wanna go home mommy” buttons

It’s clear that you are posting dispassionate, data-based analysis. Right?

Your argument boils down to “thieves can get away easily, and they can never be killed.” The first one is true; the second one is kittenpuppy. If built for mobility, thieves can definitely pick their fights, and can usually scoot away from a bad situation. Keep in mind that running away is not the same as winning. That may frustrate you, but you don’t have some right to ‘punish’ us.

Immortality? Garbage, regardless of what your friend says after playing his alt (now that is some grade-A data collection). Thieves share the lowest base HP in the game with elementalists, wear medium armor and have no access to protection, block or aegis. Stealth, blinds and movement are our only defenses. They’re all active defenses, too, which makes your statement that thieves can just hang out, put forth zero effort then run off if they feel like it especially hilarious. Most builds are really quite fragile, and a well placed stun or immobilize can end the fight.

Aaroneous.6190:

… then suddenly say “You know what? I dont want to die right now, in fact I dont have to at all because I say so, because I am thief”…

It’s the archetype that the designers choose for the thief, it’s as simple as that, a thief can get away, it’s what they excel at. Read the two books, I think Ghosts of Ascalon has a thief as protagonist.

Aaroneous.6190:

(warriors as well, with all their mobility).

“Warrior mobility is ok because they don’t also have stealth.”

Yeah, but they do have a HUGE health pool, massive regen, and heavy armor, as well as moving evade attacks.

“Thieves are OP because they have a build that allows them to run away from a fight real good!”

I just started a thief and he’s only lvl 33 but if that is the meaning of “OP” …….. I’d rather be able to kill real good while still having survivability. Even if it means people can see me the entire time.

Never mind that people only get mad at a class they almost killed but didn’t. Never mind that other class builds dominate them over and over and they just accept it.

So… the OP basically is complaining about the thief’s escapability.
If a thief can’t escape, he’s not a thief…. this class is designed around being mobile and hard to catch.
Other classes with certain builds can escape as easily as a thief can.

So can sword/x+GS rangers, mobility warriors, stealth mesmers, engineers in general, GS+sword/focus guardians, and x/d eles. Go complain on their forums about how they can break combat.

As already mentioned.

Aaroneous.6190:

The issue here is that thieves simply have too many “I wanna go home mommy” buttons . They are not punished for their mistakes.

“Thieves are not punished for their mistakes.”
So…. i fight a warrior, dancing around him, stunning him in the right moments, blinding him, using positioning and shadowsteps strategically, while he’s just standing there pressing 12345.
I make 1 little mistake because im not paying attention or have a little lag, whatever… Bam. 40% of my HP gone in a single blow.

Not complaining about warriors here, it was just an example. The thief is one of the classes wich are punished the most for their mistakes. The thief’s defensive is all active.
If a thief escapes, you see the fleeing thief and think he’s not punished (because he’s still alive).
In fact, if he would not be punished, he would not flee.
If he flees, you won. I understand this is unsatisfying, but are the wxp and a little loot worth your anger? He’s running like a little girl, just laugh at him
(Unless he runs from an outnumbered fight :P)

Btw, thieves have exactly 1 “I wanna go home mommy” button, wich is shadowstep. The skill is perfectly fine IMO, it’s on a 50sec cooldown. A mesmer has a 900/1200 range teleport (traited), an ele has a 900 teleport. Both on lower cooldowns.
Yes, shadowstep is not only a single teleport, but if you use the second teleport from shadowstep, you are right in the face of your enemys again…. not the optimal conditions to get away :p
If it’s not about running away, shadowstep is a great skill wich rewards good positioning.

“One mistake should mean the death of this one class.”

Really? While other classes only lose a couple seconds of time to heal up and break stun. The reason it took me this long to roll a thief is because they are the farthest thing from a “gimme” class. But then again, the only people who would get angry at not catching a kill would be those with an irrational sense of entitlement about which kills they should have got.

I love how a load of posts are saying well warriors(the broken class) have great mobility so why shouldn’t we. I do find it annoying when i get jumped they pop cds and ultimates run away heal come back rinse repeat and some classes cannot catch thief running sb etc. And comparing a mesmers 1 tele that to a thiefs 1 when they have multiple in cases both but theif a little more is a little stupid what do i know im just a simple engineer.

I get annoyed that some classes can bail and survive or hunt you down when you cannot do either lol rocket boots for example.

Also give thiefs a bulky option it would be interesting to see more bulky thiefs.

Aaroneous.6190:

Going to be pretty short on this, as I’m trying to my hardest not to let my anger govern this post. However anger is what finally pushed me to make my first post about a real issue.

I don’t play spvp, so I don’t know if this is an issue there, but in WvW perma-stealth thieves are pretty much beyond ridiculous and into the absurdity level. Two of my friends have quit playing this game entirely because of thieves, mesmers.. thieves, mesmers… repeat. I told them that mesmers are simply a learning situation, but thieves? No buddy. Who ever designed thieves were just one of those spoiled kids that would cry if they didn’t get whatever they want. so enough with the ramble, I said i’d be short.

Thieves IMO are completely busted in WvW because of how intangible they are to catch. But guess what? it’s not because of their stealth. let them be invisible all day, I don’t care.

Shadow step is the problem. Cut the range of that move in half. I have faced off against actual speed hackers before, and let me tell you, I always have to pay real close attention to whether it’s a real speed hacker or a shadows stepping thief.
I’d like to see what you guys think though. Surely I don’t know everything.

People get really frustrated when they can’t get the closure of a stomp, but a thief that simply leaves instead of getting completely downed still doesn’t accomplish the objectives of WvW: Capturing towers/supply camps.

And honestly, a warrior can often disengage from a fight just as easily if not more so. =P

I don’t know why posts from other classes complaining about thieves aren’t just deleted on the spot…

There’s no useful discussion to come from it. It’s just people venting

Now that I play Warrior instead of Thief I can only agree on thieves being annoying in a group fight. A thief deserves attention, and in a solo situation you can give your full attention to them therefore making the fight pretty simple. In a group setting, it is much harder to give them the attention they need to become a simple kill; but the reverse is also true! I remember how hard it is to avoid the sheer area-of-effect damage that can down a thief in a few hits.

That’s really all it is; a sacrifice. It doesn’t make a thief valuable member of a group, or an excellent roamer – it just requires you, as the thief enemy, adopt a different tactic instead of the usual ‘hulk smash’-tactic. That changed mind-set is incredibly powerful and also incredibly easy, but most people simply neglect change because ‘I am pro and I should win when rolling my face around the keyboard’.

As mentioned before, if any class makes a mistake, they all should be punished for it.

If not,

Arena.net Favoritism is clearly the problem, not the class. It’s not like they are given the choice to make their class this way. Look here, I main a ranger, what choice we rangers have? as we watch in complete shock as Arena.net slowly killing our class bit by bit.

We can yell and scream all we want, nothing is going to happen.

Arena.net should be the main focus of our discouragement, not thief, not war, not any body else.

So Stop fighting each other and focus on Arena.net; let them know how we feel and that we need change and that we will not take it anymore.

Let them know, we’ve had enough of Favoritism, and no longer will tolerate it.

As the saying goes, “one who plays Favorite, starts a wildfire”

And this wildfire is the cause of us “at each other’s throats”

(favoritism- the unfair practice of treating some people better than others)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/favoritism

Favoritism consists of

- getting away with offenses that others would be punished for
- being granted special privileges
- being granted undeserving privileges
- being able to never commit any offenses in the eyes of their creator.

Penalty

Because of unequal treatment, we are hurt, helpless and defenseless.

Zacchary.6183:

Maybe if players stopped complaining about thieves, arenanet’s papers would start showing that thieves aren’t as much of a problem. Then thieves would actually start getting nice things and the whole profession wouldn’t be forced to play d/d to be completely viable. Afterwards you will start seeing less permastealth and backstabs because everything thieves have complained about in regards to their profession finally gets fixed.

At least you came to the forums in a rational fashion.

+1
It’s not that every thieve wants to run the same utilities/traits/gear . its because where being forced to. Thieve diversity has taken a huge plummet since launch. (of course this happens naturally over time, but not this quick)
The problem is 2 things imo, When anet “balances” things they pick one wpn set to buff and nerf the rest. this forces thieves out of that set and into the “new” one. this is the main reason your seeing a high majority of thief running d/d , d/p.
The other reason is people calling for nerfs on specific abilities, so lets say they did nerf all the teleports, are you prepared to fight NOTHING except perma stealth users?

: Be careful what you wish for.

Sorry, I don’t have much WvW insight but in sPvP HJ or solo Q, should I feel bad that I can successfully hold and engage 3 members of a given team at a control point and not die for a good 2-3 minutes? It’s funny when I stealth and they start swatting around like hitting gnats. All the while my other teammates are capping other points (HOPEFULLY) so that when I eventually go down, they don’t get the stomp for another 15 secs while I port / blinding powder.

In WvW I can keep a good 3-4 people busy as well. I usually get overwhelmed, but a good distraction is a good thing, I feel. Am I playing this wrong?

Lamuness.3570:

Sorry, I don’t have much WvW insight but in sPvP HJ or solo Q, should I feel bad that I can successfully hold and engage 3 members of a given team at a control point and not die for a good 2-3 minutes? It’s funny when I stealth and they start swatting around like hitting gnats. All the while my other teammates are capping other points (HOPEFULLY) so that when I eventually go down, they don’t get the stomp for another 15 secs while I port / blinding powder.

In WvW I can keep a good 3-4 people busy as well. I usually get overwhelmed, but a good distraction is a good thing, I feel. Am I playing this wrong?

wat.

If you’re engaging 3 people on a point for 2 to 3 minutes, the the people you’re fighting are really bad, and every time you stealth you’re letting them cap the point anyway.

Lamuness.3570:

Sorry, I don’t have much WvW insight but in sPvP HJ or solo Q, should I feel bad that I can successfully hold and engage 3 members of a given team at a control point and not die for a good 2-3 minutes? It’s funny when I stealth and they start swatting around like hitting gnats. All the while my other teammates are capping other points (HOPEFULLY) so that when I eventually go down, they don’t get the stomp for another 15 secs while I port / blinding powder.

In WvW I can keep a good 3-4 people busy as well. I usually get overwhelmed, but a good distraction is a good thing, I feel. Am I playing this wrong?

^
this is why thieves are annoying. personally I can 1 v 1 a thief, but the problem comes when you are winning the battle and they just decide to ooc. Sometimes you can apply enough conditions that they actually lose, but most of the better thieves I’ve seen just burst, run, repeat. Their bow allows for a good retreat, so you need to replace defensive gear with running gear if you think you can get away with using up a slot, though they could probably just stealth even if you did. Personally, I think wvw can’t do much about thieves, since it’s not technically about straight pvp. I don’t pvp either, and I think its sad because wvw is so much fun, but I don’t see a way to keep thieves from running away. If a thief wants to run, they can run. I’d like to see stealth disrupts implemented in a way that everyone has one but put it on a long cooldown.

Well technically, it’s not ON the point, it’s next to it. I’ve started to run away more to heal up and reposition, but it still seems to be just an annoyance to just run, since their cds are going down too.

Why are people even responding to threads like these still?

Lol a BG/opp/Thief.

Run away guys!

HEY op

you know how many Thief players quit bicous the immense amount of nerfs we are getting ?

maybe not every thief would use Permastealth if ANET would finaly fix everything else bicous with everysingle patch they are pushing us into the permastealth build to stay viable……

soon we wont gonna have ANY other viable build then perma stealth backstabber builds…. and when they nerf even that THE ONLY THING THAT NEEDS FIXING we wont gonna have anything left to even kill an Upleveled lvl40 player in WvWvW -.-

I find warriors and rangers to be harder to catch. I play all three professions and all three professions (Warrior/Thief/Ranger) have can be built for insane mobility.

I actually find the ranger to be the best out of all of them for escaping because I can stealth instantly from 1500 range every 9 1/2 seconds when traited and have the option of an 1100 range swoop with greatsword every 12 seconds or a Lightning reflex (40s), Hornet sting/Monarch (8s) leap combo to move even faster. Not to mention the option of a 20 second stability with rampage as one. The best thing about it is you can stealth and not have to worry about managing initiative for your damage.

I honestly think the whole issue with the OP is psychological. It’s not stealth and it’s not shadowstep, it’s because he got schooled by a good thief that understood how to play his profession.

OP, if we follow by that logic then every other class should be nerfed too. I did play other classes and compared to thieves they are too forgiving in many aspects.

Take a war for example: oh i suck at dodging? jk lemme pop invul and lol @ enemy while HS + adr. heal keeps me forever alive… oh too many ppl attack me? let me pull GS and zoom across the map

Yes, thieves have good moblity and stealth… but that is it. They literary don’t have anything else. If you don’t believe me, roll a thief, go do some soloq/tpvp so you can experience lv 80 combat, pray that you don’t uninstall after match or two.

Cynz.9437:

Yes, thieves have good moblity and stealth… but that is it. They literary don’t have anything else. If you don’t believe me, roll a thief, go do some soloq/tpvp so you can experience lv 80 combat, pray that you don’t uninstall after match or two.

This sums it up nicely.

Aaroneous.6190:

…I am not basing my experiences on 1v1 situations. I am going off of the countless times I have witnessed a thief completely let down their guard, slack off, or simply not apply themselves to a fight in 1v5, up to 1v8 scenarios to then suddenly say “You know what? I dont want to die right now, in fact I dont have to at all because I say so, because I am thief”…

May I ask what the kitten a 1v5 and a 1v8 scenario is in the first place? That’s just stupid to begin with.

In response to your post, the Thief class was meant to be mobile. Unless ArenaNet named one of the thief traits ‘Hard to Catch’ by accident… When you consider how position-based a thief’s attack is, in combination with the lack of defense capabilities, mobility is a big factor in both offense and defense. And you’re saying the mobility of thieves is a problem? kitten son.

So we have one side saying thieves are OP,
One side defending the thieves,
And burnfall spouting some random crap that doesn’t make sense

…….Merry christmas all

BobbyT.7192:

So we have one side saying thieves are OP,
One side defending the thieves,
And burnfall spouting some random crap that doesn’t make sense

…….Merry christmas all

those that saying Thieves are OP never played one or not played them long enough.

Aaroneous.6190:

I agree, so many people complain about the wrong things with thieves when it is simply a L2 play issue, this case what I am speaking of is a very specific situation that applies to WvW only. These guys are blinking around with 1200 range so frequently escaping everything. Why? I cannot understand why. They are so entirely favored it’s undeniable. Blinking up on bridges, teleporting behind entire zergs, completely choosing when they want to lose or win. If you have seen one of these thieves, then you know that this is no exaggeration, this is a problem.

Its really not a L2P issue at all, some of it is, granted but it’s all about resetting fights with such little sacrificing going on. Look, a thief is never going to kill me, but when i get any thief below 30%, they just run.

and you can’t stop them from running …….. Ill blow all my snares trying to land stuff on the thief, but when i get him low, my snares are all on cd because i used them to deal my damage by keeping him still.

I call that a loss. And the thief wins every fight by choosing not to lose to you.

Now THAT is bull-kitten.

Edit- Its not bull-kitten that they can run away, its bs that thieves and wars are somehow the only class that are allowed to do so…. I never complained about thieves pre-rtl nerf, only after. So, i wont ever complain about thieves again if rtl got reverted.(but we know never will). The double standards in this game are beyond sickening.

BobbyT.7192:

So we have one side saying thieves are OP,
One side defending the thieves,
And burnfall spouting some random crap that doesn’t make sense

…….Merry christmas all

I lol’d.

well i guess you have to run with shadow arts based thief below 30% HP, because last refuge procs at 25% health and that thing can be unpredictable.

Excalibur.9748:

well i guess you have to run with shadow arts based thief below 30% HP, because last refuge procs at 25% health and that thing can be unpredictable.

30% was just a BS’d number. Suppose i shouldve said “whenever they get dangerously low” which in my eyes, 30% for a thief is dangerous and was the first thing i thought of.

The Game Slayer.7632:

and you can’t stop them from running …….. Ill blow all my snares trying to land stuff on the thief, but when i get him low, my snares are all on cd because i used them to deal my damage by keeping him still.

I call that a loss

You can call it an ice-cream cone or a tractor, but most folks are not going to confuse “He ran away” with “He won.”

This notion that thieves are unkillable amazes me. Shadowstep has a 50 second cooldown (that’s also the only stunbreaker most thieves load). Shadow Refuge is 60 seconds. Yes, when all our utilities up, we’re slippery. Every class is more powerful when their cooldowns are up.

When our cooldowns are down, we have the lowest possible HP, medium armor, no protection, no aegis, no blocks, no stability (except an elite). If you find that matchup impossible, then it’s either a rock-scissors issue with how you are specced, or it’s how you are using your own cooldowns.

When playing your elementalist, your weapon skills have chill effects. Most weapon sets also have a short-cooldown immobilize, and some have cripples. You can load signets to immobilize or blind thieves. You have a plethora of ways to stop thieves in their tracks, from range. All of them have a shorter cooldown than the two main tools thieves use to escape. If you choose not to use these tools, the issue is not in the thief class.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Its really not a L2P issue at all, some of it is, granted but it’s all about resetting fights with such little sacrificing going on. Look, a thief is never going to kill me, but when i get any thief below 30%, they just run.

If your on the class with the lowest hp and lowest armor and a thief cannot ever kill you… then you must be built to be super super tanky (i assume). If you are, then why are you expecting to kill anything by yourself? let alone a thief x.×.

If you aren’t built to be super survivableness and thieves still cant burst you down… then thieves need a buff, not a nerf… if they cannot even burst down someone with the lowest hp and armor in the game :P

The Game Slayer.7632:

Its really not a L2P issue at all, some of it is, granted but it’s all about resetting fights with such little sacrificing going on. Look, a thief is never going to kill me, but when i get any thief below 30%, they just run.

and you can’t stop them from running …….. Ill blow all my snares trying to land stuff on the thief, but when i get him low, my snares are all on cd because i used them to deal my damage by keeping him still.

I call that a loss. And the thief wins every fight by choosing not to lose to you.

Now THAT is bull-kitten.

Edit- Its not bull-kitten that they can run away, its bs that thieves and wars are somehow the only class that are allowed to do so…. I never complained about thieves pre-rtl nerf, only after. So, i wont ever complain about thieves again if rtl got reverted.(but we know never will). The double standards in this game are beyond sickening.

So basically you’re just angry that your ele has been nerfed and now you go to the thief forum and cry because we still have mobility?

So… if rtl will be reverted, you won’t think it’s unfair that ele, thief and warrior are the only classes that can run away so easily?

As long as you get what you want, you are happy and don’t care for anything else?

Btw, calm down and let thieves run. You won. Do you really need this stomp to be satisfied?

As you mentioned “a thief is never going to kill you”, so don’t you think thieves are actually underpowered?
I’d rather be able to actually kill something than just being able to run away ôO

Cynz.9437:

Yes, thieves have good moblity and stealth… but that is it. They literary don’t have anything else. If you don’t believe me, roll a thief, go do some soloq/tpvp so you can experience lv 80 combat, pray that you don’t uninstall after match or two.

This.

Personally i never run from a 1vs1. If i’m losing, i’m still fighting until i die.
If suddenly i get outnumbered of course i run. Why should i stay and fight? Are you satisfied if you stomp someone because you won 3vs1?

If a warrior runs from me in a 1vs1 and I know i’m not going to catch him, i just /laugh and take the next camp or whatever.

Thief is already “fair” in WvW.

They should stay in stealth for a long time.
They got “revealed” condition only because of WvW whiners.
They got their initative regen nerfed only because of WvW whiners.
They got Heartseeker nerfed only because of WvW whiners.
They got stealth AND damage nerfs in small parts each patch following each other only because of WvW whiners.

Thief is a predator. Like in nature. They are no chance against a group, but they are patient and look for weaker individuals, catching it offguard if he leaves the group. Look around nature of the world you live in, that’s how it is. Thief is a predator and should ALWAYS have the upper hand in 1v1 situations. We call this roaming in GW2. Would you broke a lion’s leg to give MORE (I said “more” instead of “a” because they already have a very good) chance to a lonely gazelle who left a group? Nonsense, right? I’m not saying thieves should be superior. There is balance, and it’s called PvP. WvW is about GROUPS, SERVERS fighting each other, not 1v1. And breaking an entire class to tiny pieces then crush it more with your heel both in WvW and PvE in nonsense, just because you don’t understand why your head hurts when you use it to open a door.

“Mesmers are masters of mirage. They weave mental magic that confounds, controls, or evokes emotion in their enemies. "

“Warriors are masters of martial skills. They rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive. They’re versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies.”

“Elementalists have harnessed Tyria’s natural forces. Their powers of destruction are drawn from an affinity with the four elements that make up the world. They conjure air, fire, earth or water to assault their enemies.”

kitten your predator.

I don’t think you understood what we have been saying. Every other class in the game has some form of getting ooc and running away when they don’t want to die. Thieves are just a bit better at it because we take the time to really learn our class (hardest class to play btw if u didn’t catch that). It really is just a L2P issue for other classes. If they bothered to take the time to learn their classes well, they would learn how to get almost exactly what we are doing. (not saying exactly because there can always be some semantic you throw in to prove your point that doesn’t make any difference whatsoever)

When I run away from a fight as a Thief it’s because I can’t win, not because I can. I’ll test the waters and see if I have a chance to win, but me spending time in a fight only to have to run away is not a win for me. It’s a loss. I either lost a capture point or lost an opportunity to contribute to a capture point elsewhere or both.

My running a way is in no way me winning, it’s me not winning and not losing. It’s neutral from that perspective, but a loss from the time loss/opportunity loss/cooldown loss perspective.

Butch.4957:

I don’t think you understood what we have been saying. Every other class in the game has some form of getting ooc and running away when they don’t want to die. Thieves are just a bit better at it because we take the time to really learn our class (hardest class to play btw if u didn’t catch that). It really is just a L2P issue for other classes. If they bothered to take the time to learn their classes well, they would learn how to get almost exactly what we are doing. (not saying exactly because there can always be some semantic you throw in to prove your point that doesn’t make any difference whatsoever)

That honor goes to the ele IMO

Shockwave.1230:

When I run away from a fight as a Thief it’s because I can’t win, not because I can. I’ll test the waters and see if I have a chance to win, but me spending time in a fight only to have to run away is not a win for me. It’s a loss.

Lots of people in wvw don’t see it this way. I’ve had thieves come after me countless times, getting out of combat when it gets rough, and coming back as soon as they have full hp. My only problem is that they have the ability to ooc so easily. Perhaps they should just come up with a cage type of trap for combating this, in which if they jump you, you can drop an area cage and they are now forced to fight you and not run. My problem with thieves are not really their mechanics, its the running away that many thieves do. Unfortunately, their mechanics makes ooc very easy, so just make ooc’ing not an option. They can stealth all they want as long as there’s a way to stop them from poking and running.

Depths.4051:

Lots of people in wvw don’t see it this way

Some classes can build to match or exceed thief mobility. Some cannot. These are class-defining characteristics, just like armor, hit points, access to certain buffs, etc. If you don’t build for mobility, don’t expect to outrun classes that do. You can keep a thief in combat just by keeping up.

If you’re sick of thieves fleeing, build yourself a hyper-mobile warrior or elementalist, and add at least one AoE skill to screw up their Shadow Refuge. That evens the race up considerably.

Oghier.7419:

Depths.4051:

Lots of people in wvw don’t see it this way

Some classes can build to match or exceed thief mobility. Some cannot. These are class-defining characteristics, just like armor, hit points, access to certain buffs, etc. If you don’t build for mobility, don’t expect to outrun classes that do. You can keep a thief in combat just by keeping up.

If you’re sick of thieves fleeing, build yourself a hyper-mobile warrior or elementalist, and add at least one AoE skill to screw up their Shadow Refuge. That evens the race up considerably.

L2P master right here

Not every class is supposed to be able to counter every other class. And people who actually get angry over stuff like this, should go do something else.

When people complain about thieves, do they ever bring up the number of times we just get run over by a larger group, because our ability to take damage and stay alive is next to nothing? How about our overall effectiveness in group play? We don’t contribute nearly as much as other classes in many situations.

IMO the reason people hate thieves is they can’t beat them 1v1, and that’s exactly the scenario where a thief is supposed to do very well. We are supposed to be able to reset a fight, that’s by design. We give up quite a bit to be good at what we do. If we did not have strong abilities to reset fights, the thief would be extremely weak.

I strongly suggest for players to expand their horizons and actually play classes that frustrate them. I now have a lvl 80 of every class, all of which I play on a regular basis. I don’t get class envy, or get upset about losing fights to any other class. Even if I think a class is imbalanced, I don’t complain about it, it just is what it is, so I learn how to counter/deal with it and move on.

Oghier.7419:

Depths.4051:

Lots of people in wvw don’t see it this way

Some classes can build to match or exceed thief mobility. Some cannot. These are class-defining characteristics, just like armor, hit points, access to certain buffs, etc. If you don’t build for mobility, don’t expect to outrun classes that do. You can keep a thief in combat just by keeping up.

If you’re sick of thieves fleeing, build yourself a hyper-mobile warrior or elementalist, and add at least one AoE skill to screw up their Shadow Refuge. That evens the race up considerably.

Lol, so I should roll a certain class just to combat this? I think your missing the point. Perhaps this is a possibility in open terrain, and even then they can run in the complete opposite direction to where you think they’re going. A chasing class means almost nothing honestly. Even if it did, I should roll another class JUST to combat this? rlly? I think the fact you suggest this implies a problem already. Spamming aoe is obvious, but that’s the problem, you don’t know if you should keep spamming until you realize your out of combat and they ran away at some point. If your near any hills, they can ooc very easily. Its not just L2P, its a game mechanic that is troublesome to balance.

I think this topic proves thieves need to be buffed.

So basically thieve’s have been pigeon holed into 1 type of build bc we are lackluster at everything else. And it has been commented that other classes can be traited for similar mobility, have higher range then any of our teleports but obviously thieve’s arent a big enough of a threat to the general populace to build your character to counter and there is where the problem lies.

Basically your saying i dont want to sacrifice DPS/sustain/whatever to deal with thieves so nerf them instead.

MyCondolences.8172:

I think this topic proves thieves need to be buffed.

So basically thieve’s have been pigeon holed into 1 type of build bc we are lackluster at everything else. And it has been commented that other classes can be traited for similar mobility, have higher range then any of our teleports but obviously thieve’s arent a big enough of a threat to the general populace to build your character to counter and there is where the problem lies.

Basically your saying i dont want to sacrifice DPS/sustain/whatever to deal with thieves so nerf them instead.

^ah.. lol? srsly, no. I can get back stabbed down to 25% hp pretty much instantly by a thief, I’m medium armor with toughness as a secondary. I heal up pretty fast and knockback doing so, then if they start trying to spam I block and stun then apply conditions. Next thing I know they invis, I start spamming aoe, then I’m ooc. This battle scenario is pretty much how majority go. It’s all about the surprise with the first burst, then if thing’s don’t go right, they’re gone. You haven’t been reading my post if you think I want them nerfed. I want a mechanic to stop them from running that doesn’t involve nerfing at all.

And what should thieves get in return?

Zacchary.6183:

And what should thieves get in return?

A greater sense of caution when you go to backstab someone, cause you might just be forced to see the fight through.

Depths.4051:

Zacchary.6183:

And what should thieves get in return?

A greater sense of caution when you go to backstab someone, cause you might just be forced to see the fight through.

Uh-huh. So after the caution, then what do they use since the initial burst clearly wasn’t enough. and the low health and med armor isn’t either. So what should a thief do from there? Initiative is gone, no blocks or aegis to rely on.

Horrible suggestions like these make it clear that these complaints against thieves have no idea how thieves are played. So the suggestion can safely be ignored.

Depths.4051:

Zacchary.6183:

And what should thieves get in return?

A greater sense of caution when you go to backstab someone, cause you might just be forced to see the fight through.

i think they have more than enough of that sense of caution… thieves don’t have anything but moblity and stealth…. neither of those mitigates dmg directly… thief can’t, by all means, fight toe to toe…they are not warriors

Depths.4051:

Lol, so I should roll a certain class just to combat this?

No, you should realize that rock-paper-scissors applies. If you choose not to build for mobility, people who do will outrun you and thereby escape. Note, every class that isn’t a necro can build to be just as speedy as most thieves. For some, it’s quite easy.

If you choose a class/ build combination that is not especially fast, you have presumably built your character to be good at something else. You made a tradeoff. So did the thief player, when he rolled a class with the lowest possible HP, no block, no stability, no protection, no aegis, minimal group support and mediocre AoE.

“Lol”

Dustfinger.9510:

Depths.4051:

Zacchary.6183:

And what should thieves get in return?

A greater sense of caution when you go to backstab someone, cause you might just be forced to see the fight through.

Uh-huh. So after the caution, then what do they use since the initial burst clearly wasn’t enough. and the low health and med armor isn’t either. So what should a thief do from there? Initiative is gone, no blocks or aegis to rely on.

Horrible suggestions like these make it clear that these complaints against thieves have no idea how thieves are played. So the suggestion can safely be ignored.

Then stay stealthed or whatever, it’s not an anti stealth trap it’s a trap that would stop you from running away and resetting. like a forced arena.

Depths.4051:

Dustfinger.9510:

Depths.4051:

Zacchary.6183:

And what should thieves get in return?

A greater sense of caution when you go to backstab someone, cause you might just be forced to see the fight through.

Uh-huh. So after the caution, then what do they use since the initial burst clearly wasn’t enough. and the low health and med armor isn’t either. So what should a thief do from there? Initiative is gone, no blocks or aegis to rely on.

Horrible suggestions like these make it clear that these complaints against thieves have no idea how thieves are played. So the suggestion can safely be ignored.

Then stay stealthed or whatever, it’s not an anti stealth trap it’s a trap that would stop you from running away and resetting. like a forced arena.

i run away in arena when it looks too bad and i obviously wouldn’t contribute much, what is your point?

honestly, by that logic they should remove half of GS sword skills for warriors then

oh and when we are at it, as well as nerf HS and adrenal. healing trait just because makes warriors too safe, they should face consquences of engaging the fight, am i right?