Guild Wars 2

It’s just me, or this weapon set is still useless? How do you even land larcenous strike? Like “hey, fully booned guardian, I’m dashing all around you for half a second, can you pretend you didn’t notice so I’ll land my new super oh so good 1/2 sec cast move that will leave you boonless afterwards? And please, can you avoid popping blocks after my first dash or even slightly moving around?”

And then, where does the damage from this set come from anyway? Am I supposed to stay there and autoattack? Or maybe I have to keep dashing and teleporting around around with Flanking Strike and Infiltrator strike dealing little to no damage?

The only good thing on this set is Shadow Return for removing conditions and Infiltrator’s Strike to chase. Not that it mattered, considering how low my damage was.

I feel so useless with this set. I can’t kill anybody even if I rip off their boons. Tried that with rangers. Assuming I have both boon removal and condition removal this should be an easy matchup. Well, is not. Not for me anyway.

The only thing I could do was killing someone with about 20% hp left. Yeah. I could do that even with nerfed mug. So what is my role in a fight, aside managing to rip off two boons (Corrupt Boon says hi) if the target fell asleep on the keyboard and being super fast at getting onto targets just to be slaughtered half a second later?

So what does this set offer?
-Low Damage
-Teleport on target
-Condition Removal
-Slow, highly predictable and easy to miss boon removal
-Stealth (to do what?)
-An interrupt that takes 1 sec to hit (C&D+Tactical Strike)
-Stealth doesn’t deal damage, meaning you have to expose yourself to attacks to deal damage.

Is anyone else trying s/d? What are your feelings about this set?

And what are devs thinking about thieves? “We want to increase thieves’ spike damage”. They kill mug. They give boon removal to the lowest damaging set. We were low rated in tpvp already, why in the world did they nerf us?

Meanwhile Mesmers still spike like crazy and make themselves hard to target (yes, I can spot the real one instantly but good luck making your attacks land in a cloud of clones thanks to our great targeting system, same goes for MM necros), elementalists can chill, weakness, launch, stun, immobilize, knockdown, rangers condi you all the time while getting protection, regen, vigor, guardian is still a hard undying kitten (actually, I’m fine with this one).

I hate conditions on thief, I’ll never use them so P/D is out of question. I had a D/P build but it took forever to kill something (about 6000-7000 dmg every 5-something seconds) and the only thing it was good at was surviving. Now that build has to face +33% revealed. I liked also the classic spike build. Now mug doesn’t crit and heals me when I’m starting the fight so I’m full health already.

Time to adapt again? Yeah, time to adapt to use another class. I’ll stick with engineer Static Discharge for a while. Assuming they wont nerf it before they make thief playable again… if they ever will.

By the way, thief was my main in both pve (yeah, an hard life for me) and pvp. More than 850 hours on it last time I checked… about two months ago. I loved my character, it breaks my heart to think about shelving it but as it stands now I don’t see anything that could make it worth to play. Maybe I’ll move to a RP server, if such thing even exists.

Lucky Shot.7650:

It’s just me, or this weapon set is still useless? How do you even land larcenous strike? Like “hey, fully booned guardian, I’m dashing all around you for half a second, can you pretend you didn’t notice so I’ll land my new super oh so good 1/2 sec cast move that will leave you boonless afterwards? And please, can you avoid popping blocks after my first dash or even slightly moving around?”

I realize it’s not the point of this thread, but you can Flanking Strike (Even while out of range) -> Infiltrator’s Strike (for the immobilize and to get into range) -> Larcenous Strike.

There’s way more variations than that, of course, but the major point is that you don’t have to use larcenous strike immediately after flanking strike.

some people think its the most amazing skill in the game. i think LS is too slow. i like FS though. its much improved. if we could keep LS for longer….and maybe use it at a good time when its more appropriate then i would lvoe it. but 5 seconds for LS makes you go quick quick use it use it! its going to dissapear and dictates playstyle too much for a 1/2 second activate and another 1/2 sec to recover. idk… not a huge fan. cool tho

It’s not as bad as you describe but in a world where you walk on a mine at every step it’s a bit inadapted.

Since it’s not that bursty it requires you to stand a bit on target, while being showered by AoEs.
Otherwise it’s pretty great, gives you an edge against most bunkers and a solid chance against most other builds, except engies who just run around and nadenadenadenadenade blindblindblindblind anyway.

That said, S/D is half the build, if it fails you may want to tweak your traits signets and runes too.

I used this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAV8YlUmiO3ey5E/5Ex2jeuTeypwpGtTxVjPA-TsAg0CnIqRVjrGTNyas1MsYRxmAA
I won’t explain the reasoning behind such build because it’s simply not worth the trouble.

Edit: also tried withdraw. I’ll never equip it again. Also tried going 10 in trickery (-10 Shadow Arts) to get Thrill of the Crime. And I also tried some other things I can’t remember, tried to use S/D for a while now but I really can’t get it.

I tried roaming. With old D/D you see your team in a fight, you drop in, spot a target, down it, stealth kill if you have enough health then disengage. It was like a bomb suddenly dropped on enemy team. I remember trying to do that with S/D to help an obviously unexperienced engineer fending off a ranger. Ranger killed us both. Or dropping in a teamfight to get downed in a matter of seconds, since I didn’t have blinds nor could do anything useful with stealth, and even if you manage to stay alive you can’t make such a huge difference like taking down a target, possibly ressing a teammate by doing so. With S/D, you are just an annoyance for the enemy team, and even a lesser annoyance compared to a D/P thief.

Let us ease your damage woes.
If you have 25% in Acrobatics your damage goes up, 10% essentially. Your 20 in SA is curbing your damage.
If you have 25 in trickery, same thing.
25 in DA same thing.
If your playing pvp (presumably) you have to wonder why take SA. Tactical strike isn’t a clutch in pvp it’s complementary so you generally won’t be spending that much time in stealth, nor having significant need of it offensively. Defensively you’re fine without it tbh and it’s inclusion is why your damage is falling off, even if you go 25 in SA the stacks of might you’ll get will be insignificant.

Your damage output is paltry because you’ve got shoddy investments into defense and no other modifiers outside of Critical strikes as well as no additional power.
You’re running sigil of air on a cleave weapon that by it’s nature can hit a wayward pet or clone first before your target. Should be sigil of fire.

May just be me, but my bow generally is running sigil of bloodlust or minor accuracy. Just switch to it during a stomp, so your melee set is at maximum efficiency when you switch to it.
With Force on the dagger, bloodlust on the bow, and assassin’s signet It’s 430 additional power + 5% increased damage with a flame sigil or 5% crit if I run that instead of force when I’m using my sword. Either way that’s pretty much as strong as 300 DA save exposed weakness. Not that you need Sin’s signet, but if you find your damage isn’t strong in that build it would make sense I believe to change the build for more offense and with 4 10%+ dmg modifiers in 25 pt grandmaster trees, running two of them may be beneficial…
LS isn’t any different from landing the Crippling Slash portion of your auto-attack other than being unblockable and doing more damage…

This is my modification on the spec jumper posted.
Note: Haven’t done any tPvP with this yet, just practicing in hot join. I’ve had some good fights with some obviously experienced players, and it’s held up extremely well, which is my basis for recommending it.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY8YlYmKOHcS6E/5Ex2jdKUeqVgmdP4qVrKA-TwAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFN+Y9xmgJBA
(copy/paste if you need)

The spec does 3 things extremely well – regenerates initiative, crits constantly, and regenerates endurance. The play style was a bit of an adjustment for me – you IS in, swing/fs/dodge roll to keep from taking any swings, IS out when needed. Mix in CnD and tactical strike when needed. Repeat. IS->LS is a good way to guarantee the hit. Switch weapons whenever you’ve got 50% endurance and 3 init missing.

If you get swamped with condi’s, hit BV to wipe em and get all the boons. You hit fairly hard for S/D (3100 power and 70% crit/50% crit damage will do that). If you eat some burst and need to bail, Shadow step dodge roll until out of init, weaponswap, dodge roll until out of endurance, pop agility, dodge roll until out of endurance. You’ll escape alot of your deaths like this, and even if you don’t, you’ll drag a target or 2 with you away from the battle, and potentially make them waste some good CD’s on trying to catch you. If you have BV, get some protection, regen, vigor and swiftness on top of it (though you’ll probably already have vigor from Withdraw, and swiftness from dodging)!

If you’re anything like me, you’ll think this spec SUCKS when you first roll it – you almost never go toe to toe with a melee target, you’re still incredibly glassy – burn that init on IS->SS. Dodge roll or FS whenever a stiff breeze rolls your way. You’re spec’d to regenerate init and endurance, take advantage. You don’t do the same damage these stats would with D/P, so you’ve got to rely on your evades and dipping in and out of combat with IS→SS.

It’s a bit weaker against ranged specs (IS->SS doesn’t do much to neuter them like with melee), but you can focus more on FS/LS since you’re not using SS to avoid swings as much.

If you’re interested in the original spec I modified this from, its just Inf Sig over Assassins And 10 trickery (thrill of the crime) over 10 DA with Mug. Its less damage, but noticeably better init regen, a second gap closer for targets over 600 units away (LS->Inf sig is a nice way to get a surprise hit in too), and 90% base crit and swiftness for 13s after a thrill of the crime is nice.

Tried Evil Apprentice build today. Being forced to stay visible to deal damage melts me.

The key with this ability is to use the first, and HOLD the second until you’re sure you’ll make contact. It’s unblockable so that’s irrelevant. Most of the noobs just spam 33333333333 where a good player will mix it up so the opponent can’t just dodge the predictable timing. Maybe hit 3, then auto for a bit or do an infiltrator’s strike THEN hit 3 again for the boon steal.

Also I find it helpful to queue up larcenous strike and hold it til my opponent tries to cast a boon then steal them immediately from them.

Have you tried D/P as second weapon set ?

I know and watched jumpers build / stream, and its quite “fun” – but there are times when a well placed HS ( or 2 ) can finish the fight.

Also BP→HS when you need to get away , or just BP for stomping support.
Also HS is very good mobility as you don’t run SB.

The 10 in DA can easily be exchanged, Heal on Steal is okay, but not that much, same goes for the dmg.

You can put them in Trickery for 3 more Ini + either more dmg after steal or 5% dmg from behind/side.

Also sometimes, 10 in SA is not bad either, for eg. condi removal or the blind , other options might also be possible.

lvis.3824:

Have you tried D/P as second weapon set ?

I’ve been running this for a while with small (2-3 people) roaming groups. I will initiate with S/D to immobilize and attempt to bait major cooldowns.

D/P is great to have when you are solo, or chasing down mobile classes. CnD>swap>Backstab can finish off those pesky bunkers that think your damage is pitiful. It is especially nice if you’ve managed to steal a few boons.

Against mobile classes, you will need heartseeker or shadow shot to keep up if they run while you have shadow return active.

Is it just me or is S/D builds with init regen and near constant evades just ridiculously powerful? It seems to me it completely counters HGH engineers and bunker builds based on boons. How is it possible to counter an S/D thief that is constantly evading and stealing boons like this? With traits like Infusion of Shadow, Quick Recovery, Quick Pockets, and Preparedness you can pretty much just constantly spam #3 right? I’m not complaining here, I’m honestly curious about how experienced players are handling these guys!

S/D works, it’s just a change in mindset and a little difficult if you are used to D/ builds. It actually has a decently high skill ceiling.

There is some good advice here already, but here’s my 2 cents.

I’ve found you can play it in 2 ways. If you want damage, you have to go zerk amulet glass cannon. Anything else is viable as team support but lacks the damage to take down sustain builds alone, and has a hard time keeping up with glass cannon from an equally skilled player.

Going gc leaves you vulnerable without much stealth, so you need to complement the build with lots of evasion. Things that work are initiative regen for more FS, withdraw, roll for initiative, shadow step, signet of agility, etc. The acrobatics line is very nice for this. I like going at least 20 in that with vigor on heal (withdraw, lots of vigor uptime), and quick recovery. Points in SA seem a waste.

Practice dodging efficiently (many, many people waste dodges), practice using inf strike efficiently, and you will be extremely annoying to fight. With a 2k+ power, 40%+ crit build, you can still put out solid damage.

As for actual builds…. I see and have fought lots of thieves running what Jumper posted, but I haven’t seen a single one play it well yet (aside from Jumper himself). Don’t expect to pick it up and instantly become GodThief. If you are playing tourney, I can’t imagine not using shortbow. The mobility is just too good, and a thief can’t stand up on point in a team fight for long, even with an evasive sword build. You need SB for those situations.

Leadfoot.9071:

Is it just me or is S/D builds with init regen and near constant evades just ridiculously powerful? It seems to me it completely counters HGH engineers and bunker builds based on boons. How is it possible to counter an S/D thief that is constantly evading and stealing boons like this? I’m not complaining here, I’m honestly curious about how experienced players are handling these guys!

It’s only powerful in the hands of a good thief. I’ve seen many a bad thief attempt it and do poorly. That said, a competent thief is dangerous with the right S/D build.

TBH you’re gonna have a hard time if you run lots of boons and expect to 1v1 it. The build naturally counters that, and works very well against HGH engis and ele/guard bunkers.

Honestly I’d suggest getting help from a teammate. This thief, like every other, is susceptible in team fights where they are focused by multiple people or where aoe is flying around everywhere.

Nettle.9025:

It’s only powerful in the hands of a good thief. I’ve seen many a bad thief attempt it and do poorly. That said, a competent thief is dangerous with the right S/D build.

TBH you’re gonna have a hard time if you run lots of boons and expect to 1v1 it. The build naturally counters that, and works very well against HGH engis and ele/guard bunkers.

Honestly I’d suggest getting help from a teammate. This thief, like every other, is susceptible in team fights where they are focused by multiple people or where aoe is flying around everywhere.

See the edit in my original post – if you trait for it you can basically sit there and spam #3 nearly constantly which can put out some serious damage and steal boons – that doesn’t seem to require much skill to me. How do you counter that as a bunker that relies on boons who often is sitting at a point alone and needs to try to hold out for as long as possible against assaulters until help arrives?

I did some playing around with an S/D build and was delighted every time I found an HGH engineer on the other team – I felt bad for them though because they literally could do nothing – probably a different story if the player was very skilled but I’m not sure I know how they could counter it without help.

Nettle.9025:

Honestly I’d suggest getting help from a teammate. This thief, like every other, is susceptible in team fights where they are focused by multiple people or where aoe is flying around everywhere.

This argument is just not valid, a full g/c DD build with the right teammate is much more devastating .
Also a Venomshare, but i come down too much on with whom you play.

S/D opens another niche for thief in tPvp, but i am still not convinced that you will be able to kill a same-skilllevel player with a hybrid specc in 1v1.

S/D default is quite vulnerable to conditions, sure you can IS/SR all the time, but this will only cleanse 1 condition and your dmg is 0.0 while doing so.

Of course you dodge a lot, but there are traits like guards burning on block which you won’t be able to dodge.

And this will give you a hard time, also area targeted , or on crit /bleed/burn skills will hurt you a lot.

You basicly only have your signet of agility, and this will also only cleanse 1 cond, when there is nobody around .

If you run Lyssa you have another 45sec ( the best ) condi cleanse, but its also long recast, and defines your elite + runes.

@Leadfoot – They don’t have constant evasion spamming FS. They are vulnerable just as often as they are not due to LS. You just have to time your attacks against them. I don’t play a bunker so I can’t give you details, but that kind of thief is specifically built to counter bunkers that rely on boons.

@Ivis – I agree a burst thief is more dangerous in general, but I was responding with that bit of advice for someone playing a boon heavy class against a s/d thief. And I also agree that condis are good against s/d thieves if you can stack a variety of them and if they actually land through all the evades.

You can burst on S/D fine. Had a quick play with it – didn’t even bother with haste on these two.