Guild Wars 2

My thief was my original “Main” that I leveled to 80. Since then I have 3 more alts that I got to level 80 and geared (Guard, Warrior, Necro, in that order). Of all these 4 classes I feel like my thief, while one of the most fun to play, is one of the most lacking in terms of support capabilities and team dynamics.

Example:
In a PvE dungeon setting, I can take my 30/0/0/10/30 axe/mace/GS zerker warrior into the party and bring might, vuln, +150 power to all allies, banner of discipline/might/battle standard, fury from FGJ and an 1 insta condition removal for all with Shake it Off. All that, plus one of the highest damage output builds in the game. Is it any wonder why everyone wants a zerker warrior in their party?

Counter example, my thief:
Stealth rezz or stealth my entire party to run past mobs. This, bountiful theft, and thrill of the crime is basically my entire extent of party support I can provide with my thief if I want to maintain a high burst dps build (and unless you take 20 into trickery you can’t have both thrill of the crime and bountiful theft).

To be frank, I think that the thief’s support abilities in comparison is extremely inferior. And that’s a shame. It is otherwise an extremely fun class to play, and if we had more party support it would make this class that much more enjoyable! Of course we don’t want to take the roles that are already occupied by existing classes.

Ideas for some support buffs, I have 2:

- Grandmaster trait that allows for your party to enjoy all the benefits you do when you stealth them.
This means that if I take Shadow’s embrace, cloaked in shadow, shadow rejuvination from shadow arts tree, your entire party gets to remove up to 2 conditions in 3s, AoE blind, and rejuvenation for the duration of the stealth.

- Rearranging the trait distributions and where the traits are
This is just in general improvement of the thief, the support aspect of this will be the improved DPS capability. The Deadly Arts tree just makes no sense, its a power and condition duration tree but all the minor traits give you poison or condition related buffs… whereas the condition trait line is supposedly trickery, which gives you stealing and initiative recharge buffs?

Wouldn’t it make a lot more sense for the power trait line to have stealing and initiative recharge buffs, and the condition trait line to have the venoms and condition buffs, move all the venom abilities down to trickery and move the burst abilities of trickery to deadly arts?

Suppose the minor traits of deadly arts were kleptomaniac (3 ini on steal), preparedness (initiative bar increases +3) and lead attacks (1% damage increase per initiative). Also, Venomous strength, potent poisions, quick venoms and Residual venom from deadly arts goes to trickery, and from trickery we get flanking strike and initial strike. This allows for you to make deadly arts a potent burst trait line, and trickery a potent condition/steal recharge trait line, and there wouldn’t be this unnecessary overlap!

On my thief I feel like I am always contributing to the group. I bring shadow refuge, smoke bomb, and smoke wall. with those utilities I can grant stealth, aoe blind, and block projectiles. Also I have a Sbow, now realize my group has two rangers in it, both use the healing spring, but essentially, you inherently, regardless of which weapon you bring, have quite a few combo finishers, what that means of course is that you can offer a lot of support that way. Cluster bomb is probably the best combo finisher we have because you can essentially spam a blast finisher, which if it is done into a water field is a significant aoe heal. I guess it takes a little thinking outside the box, but I hope that helps!

Just a note: I Don’t PvE at all.

Having said that, what about a Venom Share build with 20/0/30/0/20? Something like this – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAsIFhmLNpai/cig7BAg6T9UQ2xqp4m2E

Maybe that would work?

I have 2 bones to pick with the venom build. First, one of the problems with the Venom Build is the venom aura trait, it has a 300 range, meaning you would have to be in an extremely coordinated group for you to transfer the venom buffs reliably. (For comparison, the radius of shadow refuge is 240 so basically you need to trigger your venoms within that approximate distance of your allies for the venoms to go through).

Second is your ability to do damage as a thief while running a venom build is nerfed quite a bit whether you decide to go condi or direct damage.

Easy access to a blast finisher, which is faster than a guardians hammer 2;) though not instant.
SR for rezz.
Dagger storm for reflect, since smoke screen doesn’t

smoke field>>guardian

about changes:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-traits-and-poisons/first#post2392009

Just transfer power to Trickery. And rework save abilities. Berserk war hp = 2 berserk thief hp. One hit – one died thief.

Icarus Pherae.4680:

On my thief I feel like I am always contributing to the group. I bring shadow refuge, smoke bomb, and smoke wall. with those utilities I can grant stealth, aoe blind, and block projectiles. Also I have a Sbow, now realize my group has two rangers in it, both use the healing spring, but essentially, you inherently, regardless of which weapon you bring, have quite a few combo finishers, what that means of course is that you can offer a lot of support that way. Cluster bomb is probably the best combo finisher we have because you can essentially spam a blast finisher, which if it is done into a water field is a significant aoe heal. I guess it takes a little thinking outside the box, but I hope that helps!

Shadow refuge is a gimmick and you know it-it’s most useful application is stealth rez but it doesn’t help when the player is downed in aoe or such. Smoke bomb…meh….you’d have to outline the useful of this in a party setting-the only thing I could come up with was 10s regeneration…however if certain other classes are in the party then there will be high regen uptime in which case our trait won’t kick in. Oh, and don’t try to say one blind every 32-40s is worthwhile-with 5 in radiance guardians can do better. Smoke screen is decent enough, but guardians have 2 anti-projectile skills that blow it out of the water and feedback has the benefit of allowing the party to reposition/continue attacking (smoke screen first of all requires coordination-not happening in pugs, and even then everyone has to stay behind it. Feedback is just a better skill). Smoke screen also gives a dark field…that…is…kinda well…not that useful in pve (dungeons)-not when a mesmer’s reflect can give aoe chaos armor and guardian’s light fields can cleanse conditions or give retaliation. Quite frankly I’d even put ele’s whirling wind above it because it doesn’t interfere with combo fields-the ele can drop fire fields for aoe might stacks and protect the party from projectiles in a more efficient manner….what can we do? Oh, don’t forget the traited focus for mesmers…yeah

So let’s recap: stealth-gimmicky, doesn’t really contribute much; aoe blind-dark fields interfere with fire/water/etheral fields that yield awesome party buffs w/blast finishers. Also guardians can aoe blind+apply burning to everyone’s attack at least once every 30s-aoe 3stack of might might also be possible; block projectiles-decent enough if noone else wants to have an anti-projectile skill, however it only blocks (i.e. does no damage), creates dark field (see above). Do you honestly feel satisfied with just that?

As far as party support goes I think the blast finisher (although it needs a minor work around-air time is way too long, better to get close to the field you want to fire in rather than stay at range) and weakness are the thief’s strengths…and even the weakness has a downside b/c it’s the result of a combo field and might mess up interactions with fire/water fields. So really, flat out, the best support the thief has is the blast finisher…sounds pathetic doesn’t it?

Oh for combo finishers-sword has none, daggers have none, the autoattacks for the sb and pistol have a 20% chance to act as projectile (…think it was 20%-it’s fairly low is what I’m saying) and whirl/blast finishers are the only ones that give party boons.

I hope people don’t misunderstand-I don’t hate the thief nor am I saying it is unplayable or has no support, rather nearly every support option available to it is kitten in some way. Venom share is the only thing it has going for it as far as proper party support that another class can’t do better….but for the life of me I can’t get around the range of venom share in pugs

Marduh.4603:

smoke field>>guardian

I…I don’t….I….what?
Did I really just read someone imply that a couple of seconds of a combo fields is better than an entire profession?
I…you….

I’d love to live in your world for short periods of time…I suspect extended stay might be detrimental to one’s health. But on to off chance that you have some secret knowledge…please do share-simply saying x >y doesn’t make it so-support your claim

Just spam http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder
And mitigate 99% damage

Thief utility is from conditions like blind, cripple, daze. The OP is thinking about support as boons since boons do seem to be better. If stacking might allows you to mash enemy trash in five seconds then you don’t need weakness or blind. Champions have defiant and boons scale incredibly well against big hitting mobs.that are largely unaffected by cc. So for trash the thieves have reasonable utility (blind etc) that nobody needs. For bosses the thief hasn’t much utility at all.

Imbune.5497:

Marduh.4603:

smoke field>>guardian

I…I don’t….I….what?
Did I really just read someone imply that a couple of seconds of a combo fields is better than an entire profession?
I…you….

I’d love to live in your world for short periods of time…I suspect extended stay might be detrimental to one’s health. But on to off chance that you have some secret knowledge…please do share-simply saying x >y doesn’t make it so-support your claim

I lol’d

umm heartseeker > ranger, but what is > mesmer? Gotta really master this profession!