Guild Wars 2

How did you manage to have 12.5k, or whatever, with PVT/Valk gear? My Ele has full berserker gear and still have 13.1k health, but thats with 15 traits at water though…

I’m pretty sure the OP lost any right to complain about a lack of counter-play when he posted a log showing that his response to a thief jumping on him was to swap to Fire Attunement.

Dog.1472:

I’ve played every class. You shouldn’t have deleted your thief. If you played it longer, you would know that you are not untouchable in stealth. You are invisible, that’s it. Knowing that you can assume where the thief is going to be and what they’re doing. You can lay down attacks and kill them, you can use mist form so they can’t backstab you and their stealth wears out. You can even dodge it.

Now, if I was using a staff, I’d probably be dead. Plain and simple, some builds don’t work in 1v1, like a staff Ele. That isn’t unbalance. That’s rock being better than scissors.

I’ve been killed by thieves and I’ve killed plenty of them too. If you think there’s nothing you can do, the problem is you, not the class.

I love this kind of posts where players which play/played thieves tells us that stealth is not so OP because they can assume where the thief is going/will be so by hitting the air with your weapons thief can be killed yes… WTH is this bullcrap the assume thing ?
its like lottery I assume there will be numbers 561166214 well I am not a millionaire yet

Tefelis.6239:

How did you manage to have 12.5k, or whatever, with PVT/Valk gear? My Ele has full berserker gear and still have 13.1k health, but thats with 15 traits at water though…

ok well even then , health isnt an issue , ive posted this in a couple of threads , i run with bersker/soldier mixed gear normally (i dont expect to live that long) i invest 30 into soul reaping (bigger life force pool) , was at 100% life force , popped DS , thief comes out of stealth and in 1 shot destroyed my DS (were looking at close to 21k in dmg since its supposed to be close to your health if im not mistaken?) then immediately strikes me again before i could react and im downed , all the while surrounded by 3 other guys as were chasing down 2 other thieves who were stlealth spamming trying to get one of our supply camps in wvw , we couldnt even down them due to stealth spam and healing while stealthed , but they knew how stubborn we were and were using the NPCs to help with our attacks since it was a fully upgraded camp , eventually we chased them not aware they had a thief waiting to ambush (good plan on their part) , we just werent aware that thief was doing THAT much dmg , and of course goes into stealth in the process , as OP said there is no Counter for this BS , we see every class with good counters for them , yet heres thief running rampant. now look at EVERY TYPE of game thath as full blown active stealth , you take ANY form of dmg (aoe / dots usually) your stealth breaks , we do not see that here and i think thats a reason thieves are getting away with so much , they have a mechanic thats so OP its ridiculous.

The problem has to do with the speed of the ele skills which is too slow. With Mist form and the arcana bubble we can sometimes stop the burst, but fighting back against someone that output 14k dmg in 1 sec when it takes you 5 seconds to output 4k dmg on the strongest skill crit is ridiculous.

Your intent may not have been a thread directing the devs to nerf thieves, but that’s what it’s become. There’s a high risk factor to every fight when playing glass, yet people don’t see it. Invisibility =/= invulnerability. A successful attack against a stealthed GC thief does significant damage and they often cripple under heavy AoE (which the ele has a lot of!).

Stop calling for an all-out nerf to thieves. In Street Fighter did you spam buttons against every opponent you fought against? You probably didn’t get far in the game if you did. Learning to fight other classes is the same way. A simple dodge can mess up a glass thief’s entire rotation and at that point, they have very little initiative left. Your ele is obviously as glassy as they come judging by how quickly you went down and you’re exactly the type of player glass cannon thieves excel in killing: slow, unresponsive, and definitely NOT wearing any sort of PTV gear.

Had you built for more survivability, that thief would never have had a shot at killing you while you were in the midst of your group. Don’t blame the thief for your failure. Blame yourself and get better instead of being a bad player whining about being ganked on the forums.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Your intent may not have been a thread directing the devs to nerf thieves, but that’s what it’s become. There’s a high risk factor to every fight when playing glass, yet people don’t see it. Invisibility =/= invulnerability. A successful attack against a stealthed GC thief does significant damage and they often cripple under heavy AoE (which the ele has a lot of!).

Stop calling for an all-out nerf to thieves. In Street Fighter did you spam buttons against every opponent you fought against? You probably didn’t get far in the game if you did. Learning to fight other classes is the same way. A simple dodge can mess up a glass thief’s entire rotation and at that point, they have very little initiative left. Your ele is obviously as glassy as they come judging by how quickly you went down and you’re exactly the type of player glass cannon thieves excel in killing: slow, unresponsive, and definitely NOT wearing any sort of PTV gear.

Had you built for more survivability, that thief would never have had a shot at killing you while you were in the midst of your group. Don’t blame the thief for your failure. Blame yourself and get better instead of being a bad player whining about being ganked on the forums.

I’m sorry, but common sense is lost here.

It would seem the majority of the people here can’t handle the concept that they are bad players. In their minds they are the greatest thing to have ever graced the fields of WvW and therefore, being killed means everything is unbalanced.

Did I make a mistake here? Nope, IMBA.

Is it weird I find it easier to kill thieves than to survive as one, then? Lol.

I think the people saying “that’s all the thief has got” have a point. If they can’t outright kill you in one shot, then they will most likely die. So, generally, yes, I hear you on the frustrations of the perma-stealthed thief. I, personally, wouldn’t mind if they nerfed stealth a bit, but would then like them to buff them in other ways, maybe passively as opposed to combatively. So they could just give them some more health, or some more toughness, for instance. Then they wouldn’t use stealth so much, stealth would be weaker anyway, but they wouldn’t have all their skills nerfed to the ground. I would support this.

fighting thieves is like you can assume this and that and evade backstab with your 6th sense.

tbh stealth stacking is ridiculous and more ridiculous is pretty much free stealth from a skill which does 5k damage.

i do kill silly dumb thief players quite a lot and really don’t find them strongest class in general.

however they do get too much kittening stealth stacks and ridiculous dmg on some nearly “spammable” combos. i.e. hit → hide → heal if need → hit again etc. they should be penalized in the manner that if they kitten up they are really feeling sad panda and not be so fast moving. (mostly talking about wvw with ridiculously strong pve gear and tons of space to kite). more than gazillion tims i’ve seen thief dude kitten up like ridiculously many times but he still pushes couple buttons and permainv → fast leaps away etc. too easy.

Op’s problem again i guess is that he apparently played staff ele which sucks against thieves, big time.

I wanna talk about how you did 125k damage to that mosquito!!

What about a zerker GS warrior with bulls/frenzy/100B? You’re pretty much dead after the opener right? The key to dealing with any walking opener is not to participate in the opener. Here things like breakstun, stability, dodge, escape in other words, are things you should be thinking about during their opener.

And, in any kind of PvP, it’s best to dress for success. You say you are in p/v/t and valk gear so I don’t know what to think there. You should be in good shape for dealing with burst builds.

But, yeah, nerf them, buff me.

Redux of threads for 10 years in many games.

Stealth class repeats same tired old line.. “lrn to play”

Stealth class never admits that resetting combat at will is the real issue.

You rarely win vs a decent thief that resets and waits for the breaks. Your win is not killing the thief, its simply surviving till it gets bored and finds a different victim.

Wow another whine post about thieves and stealth …

Really.

The class is middle of the pack in PVE, sPvP and WvW.

Show us on the picture where the bad thief touched you …

Do you really expect Anet to balance for the absolute lowest common denominator?

- Stealth and I mean GW2 stealth is problematic, sorry but being able to move around totally unseen often and even during combat is crazy game design. Other classes can pop invulnerable for a couple seconds ever so often but their opponent still sees where they are and can make an informed decision. Dropping random AoE and swiping the air in hopes of hitting something that could be several yards away in a 360 direction doesn’t count as skilled play.

- The initiative system is a bad joke and it’s compounded by terrible stealth design.

-Put those together with the extreme burst that thieves can crank out(and often) and this is why you have these threads pop up continuously but some players would have you think that everybody is stupid but them.

It still pains me to see people think invisibility=invulnerability. It just shows how many bad players are out there.

No. invisibility != invulnerability though I can now how you’d think that by re-reading my post. My point is, being unseen in intrinsically advantageous(it’s almost like the Devs don’t know how human beings work), then add the extreme burst damage and the initiative system to that and there will be problems.

AoE will solve all of your problems. Players like you tunnel vision to one target and don’t see the thief that just stealthed 5 feet from you and make the perfect targets for ganking.

I personally think thieves are fine in this matter. The counterbalance is not to be a glass cannon.

I wonder if removing the condition removal from Hide in Shadows and instead buffing the condition removal for Roll for Initiative would solve the complaints for stealth.

gennyt.3428:

Dropping random AoE and swiping the air in hopes of hitting something that could be several yards away in a 360 direction doesn’t count as skilled play.

some players would have you think that everybody is stupid but them.

LOL Oh kitten.

WvW isn’t balanced.
Deal with it.

Just give me your stats, and I can tell you how it happened and how you can counter it.

Fokittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittkittennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnntus.6175:

How the world is it balanced to just die to a backstab that hits you for 8.5k out of the blue, wearing PVT/valk accesories and weapons, with no way of blocking it, with no counterplay involved, followed by two 3k HS (pray none crits., because then you are looking at 6-7k HS easily). Where is the counterplay to that? Dont tel me that zerg because I was in a zerg, the guy came in backstab, HS, stealth on top of me, nobody could do shiznit about it, stomped me and walked away with 50% hp.

Stealth is out of control, I understand its good to get the jump on people, but I have been hit by 11k backstabs with my squishy equipment, I was wearing PVT/valk weapon and accessories, yet it hit me for 8.5k.

Either you need to reworkout the whole hp from eles or move the damage from backstab to something that ACTUALLY GIVE THE THIEF SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT, A RISK, right now it is incredibly dumb how they can pop out of stealth, kill you in literally less than a sec with Backstab HS HS and there is literally no counter to this unless you have stealth of your own or have aegis to save your butt.

I used arcane shield, it blocked two attacks, none revealed the thief, he kjust backed away until it disappeared, so no, thats not the counter, a good counter would be IF IT REVEALED THEM , but NOOooooo, we cant have a thief having to do any thinking on enemies CD, he could’ve ignored the shield anyways, the damage isnt enough to kill him if it explodes anyways.

EDIT Wow people, do you mind if you read before you post? You guys just assumed all I said was “wahh wahh thief OP nerf damage”. All I said is they need some countering, some counterplay, its pretty stupid they are the only class with access to the most uncounterable mechanic, been able to spam it and get the hardest hitting spell in the game which not even aegis can save you from.
But its ok, i guess at the end of the day we all just gotta roll guardians and mesmers.

Picts related

Seriously, L2P.

Counterplay starts long before the the fight even starts; traits, food, gear/weapon, utilities, etc.

1) How do you have barely over 12.5k hp? Assuming some WvW HP buffs in the mix there, too. Base for a Ele at level 80 is almost 11k. You must be running something like 30/30/0/0/10 and maybe one PVT and Valk item.

2) How did he stomp you in the middle of a zerg and not get downed himself? Do you run with an entire zerg of people as bad as yourself? How did you just not mistform away from the stomp while your zerg pounded him? Did he stealth to stomp you and everyone went, “Guess the thief just went away OH GOD WAIT NO HE STOMPED THAT GUY LETS PANIC” and then ran around freaking out while the Thief walked away?

3) If you’re going to play Glass Cannon (and glass cannon staff, at that) and crap for defensive utilities, then you’re going to get destroyed when another offensive class gets ahold of you. It doesn’t matter if it’s a thief or what, you will simply explode with those stats.

Why do obvious QQ whining threads like this get 70+ replies in 20 hours whilst all the constructive threads in the forum go mostly unnoticed?

If we put in half as much time into the community as we do feeding the trolls I think this forum would be a much better place.

There are constructive threads in the thief forum? All I ever see is, “WAAAH STEALTH”

Bovinity.8610:

There are constructive threads in the thief forum? All I ever see is, “WAAAH STEALTH”

Fortus.6175:

How in the world is it balanced to just die to a backstab that hits you for 8.5k out of the blue, wearing PVT/valk accesories and weapons, with no way of blocking it, with no counterplay involved, followed by two 3k HS (pray none crits., because then you are looking at 6-7k HS easily). Where is the counterplay to that? Dont tel me that zerg because I was in a zerg, the guy came in backstab, HS, stealth on top of me, nobody could do shiznit about it, stomped me and walked away with 50% hp.

Stealth is out of control, I understand its good to get the jump on people, but I have been hit by 11k backstabs with my squishy equipment, I was wearing PVT/valk weapon and accessories, yet it hit me for 8.5k.

Either you need to reworkout the whole hp from eles or move the damage from backstab to something that ACTUALLY GIVE THE THIEF SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT, A RISK, right now it is incredibly dumb how they can pop out of stealth, kill you in literally less than a sec with Backstab HS HS and there is literally no counter to this unless you have stealth of your own or have aegis to save your butt.

I used arcane shield, it blocked two attacks, none revealed the thief, he kjust backed away until it disappeared, so no, thats not the counter, a good counter would be IF IT REVEALED THEM , but NOOooooo, we cant have a thief having to do any thinking on enemies CD, he could’ve ignored the shield anyways, the damage isnt enough to kill him if it explodes anyways.

EDIT Wow people, do you mind if you read before you post? You guys just assumed all I said was “wahh wahh thief OP nerf damage”. All I said is they need some countering, some counterplay, its pretty stupid they are the only class with access to the most uncounterable mechanic, been able to spam it and get the hardest hitting spell in the game which not even aegis can save you from.
But its ok, i guess at the end of the day we all just gotta roll guardians and mesmers.

Picts related

that thief has no defense…..anyway the counter play is to play wvw as its supposed to be. in groups. thieves cant do anything in groups. why are you roaming solo with PVT? you cant kill much like that anyway so?

Fortus.6175:

How in the world is…………

12.5k health Staff Elementalist. Free kill for any thief..

Unless you grow some skill, get more toughness/vitality, pick better utilities and probably better build as well.

You also have a trade-off you know, when you pump out 3k hits with AoE,
you should also expect taking x3 more dmg from single target based classes.

And fyi, backstab isn’t the hardest hitting ability in the game.

And stealth isn’t uncounterable, the thief still takes damage while in stealth,
he can be knocked down, channeled attacks chase him, he can be prevented from restealthing, backstab does half dmg if you turn your front in the right moment and thieves aren’t really hard to predict since they always go for your back. And so on.. There are way too many counters, easily ignored by brainless play.

Fortus.6175:

How in the world is it balanced to just die to a backstab that hits you for 8.5k out of the blue, wearing PVT/valk accesories and weapons, with no way of blocking it, with no counterplay involved, followed by two 3k HS (pray none crits., because then you are looking at 6-7k HS easily). Where is the counterplay to that? Dont tel me that zerg because I was in a zerg, the guy came in backstab, HS, stealth on top of me, nobody could do shiznit about it, stomped me and walked away with 50% hp.

Stealth is out of control, I understand its good to get the jump on people, but I have been hit by 11k backstabs with my squishy equipment, I was wearing PVT/valk weapon and accessories, yet it hit me for 8.5k.

Either you need to reworkout the whole hp from eles or move the damage from backstab to something that ACTUALLY GIVE THE THIEF SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT, A RISK, right now it is incredibly dumb how they can pop out of stealth, kill you in literally less than a sec with Backstab HS HS and there is literally no counter to this unless you have stealth of your own or have aegis to save your butt.

I used arcane shield, it blocked two attacks, none revealed the thief, he kjust backed away until it disappeared, so no, thats not the counter, a good counter would be IF IT REVEALED THEM , but NOOooooo, we cant have a thief having to do any thinking on enemies CD, he could’ve ignored the shield anyways, the damage isnt enough to kill him if it explodes anyways.

EDIT Wow people, do you mind if you read before you post? You guys just assumed all I said was “wahh wahh thief OP nerf damage”. All I said is they need some countering, some counterplay, its pretty stupid they are the only class with access to the most uncounterable mechanic, been able to spam it and get the hardest hitting spell in the game which not even aegis can save you from.
But its ok, i guess at the end of the day we all just gotta roll guardians and mesmers.

Picts related

if u dont see the thief coming…thats the ONLY thing thats hard. but as you are runnign you can scroll around to look. even if u are standing still. learn the controls. Press R…then left click and hold to look around. :P works amazingly. learn to view the area better and there should be no thieves sneaking up on you99% of the time.

Ghostwolf.9863:

Fortus.6175:

How in the world is…………

12.5k health Staff Elementalist. Free kill.

I edited it for more accuracy.

Arganthium.5638:

Ghostwolf.9863:

Fortus.6175:

How in the world is…………

12.5k health Staff Elementalist. Free kill.

I edited it for more accuracy.

Yeah, any other class would just demolish him, and probably even faster in many cases.

A Rifle Warrior would probably do it in one shot from range. =D

isn’t 12.5k health elementalist = full zerker?

Thieves are not OP. thieves just require you to react very quickly. I have 12k health as a thief and I can get away from a backstab. I have to hit shadowstep right away tho or I die.

Try playing spvp, thieves are a lot less deadly there. No food or extra stats.

Just don’t roam in wvw. It’s the only place thieves excel at.

Excalibur.9748:

isn’t 12.5k health elementalist = full zerker?

Yes. The OP is really something special…

Excalibur.9748:

isn’t 12.5k health elementalist = full zerker?

no, 10.5k to 11k hp is full zerker, if you dont believe me then go ahead, be my guess and create a ele and put on Beserker, but dont do it on the one in PvP, there the zerker gem has vitality on it, in PvE is only power/pres/crit, the closer you can get to that is valkyrie on PvP, wil give you 10.5khp flat. Also, I remind you that only acces had PVT and only some of them, the rest had valkiry since PVT adds nothing to my damage output and I do need damage coming from somewhere.

So you saw your blocks going off, knew you couldnt take a backstab, and didnt mist form?

The part of the thief that takes luck/skill/chances is the part where you backstab someone and risk their 10 friends focusing you, and you dieing in 3 seconds.

And ya… This

I’m pretty sure the OP lost any right to complain about a lack of counter-play when he posted a log showing that his response to a thief jumping on him was to swap to Fire Attunement.

Fortus.6175:

lso, I remind you that only acces had PVT and only some of them, the rest had valkiry since PVT adds nothing to my damage output and I do need damage coming from somewhere.

Valkyrie doesnt help you either if your crit chance is garbage, which it is if youre running Soldiers and Valk only.

I lol’d when I saw this was moved to the thief forum. Mods are great sometimes.

Thanks guys for bringing some sanity to the thread.

I read the thread and i miss the part where you tell us how much toughness and defence you have. And exactly what is your gear setup and if you have some point in defence traitline.
“some ptv and valk” isnt an answer.
Then, you said to be hitted while in zerg and it’s relative, becouse you didnt say if you leeroyed and last but not the least you were just unlucky man, happens. A zerk warrior could hit you with eviscerate and would have the same effect. With one hit and no stealth. So..

Fortus.6175, I’m going to actually have the audacity to agree with you on alot of the points you bring up, I came from a game (lord of the rings online) that had permanent stealth until I engaged in combat and only had one in-combat-stealth on a 45 minute cooldown, any damage whatsoever be it aoe, bleed, etc that was on me when i used this broke my stealth. It is how I feel it should be in this game as well, however, Our access to mobility outside of stealth is how we stay alive and compete. if you take this away from us …well…

Warriors – No longer allowed to use shield, mace, rifle, hundred blades, adrenaline, or any other damage source.

Necromancers – No longer allowed to use death shroud, conditions, wells, or life leeching. oh, and minions, cant forget minions. if caught using minions, you will be banned.

Mesmers – Can no longer use phantasms, clones, ports, stealths, or confusion

engineers – No longer allowed to use flame throwers, grenades, bombs, gunk and especially healing turrets

Rangers – Can no longer use pets, signets, bows, axes or anything else they deem competitive.

Guardian – Retaliation has been removed from the game and all guardians are required to stand still and do nothing when another player starts beating on them.

Elementalist – You are now nothing but a support healer

see where this is going? I’m not being condescending or behaving like a “troll” in anyway, this is honestly what would have to happen.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Fortus.6175:

Viking Jorun.5413:

This is why thieves keep getting nerfed. I’m tired of it. You can all complain about how “OP” thieves are, but in reality you don’t understand them. When I tell you to learn to play one to learn to beat one, I mean it. We don’t need anymore of these “thief OP nerf plz omg” threads. Our name as thieves is already soiled by people who play the class solely for the stupid high burst damage, and every nerf to backstab thieves is a nerf to every other thief build. Please learn to play a thief before you make your next post about us in this forum.

Tired of it,
~Kid Legacy, Team Legacy [TL]

EDIT: Balance is an illusion. Zacchary.6183, a fellow thief made an excellent post not a few days ago describing the difference between true imbalance and cyclical imbalance. It really is a matter of L2P. Get over it.

ALSO: Your screenshot shows the result of combat over 1 minute, not 1 second.

" WAHHHHH I cant stand the thought of my class getting balanced!!" Face it, they do their job of kill too darn well, too well, uncouterably well. Its not fun to fight them, even if they were to be “balanced”, which they arent.

At the “ALSO”, were you droped as a…….ahh forget it. Look at the time, there is such as a thing called CLOCK KEEPS GOING, the gith happened at the end of 7:00, hence why it goes all the way to 7:01, if you look closer at the CD of the shield and look it up, loo at the current time on the mini you will see that it says 7:02, you make the math, 75 secs CD on the shield and used it right before the backstab wich is when he went into stealth for 1 sec

That doesn’t mean that the thief did it in less than 1 second. I highly doubt that he was at full health when he was attacked by the thief. A smart backstab thief never goes after an enemy with full health (unless they’re up leveled) just as a lion never goes after a fully-grown gazelle. It goes after the injured and the young. We only see a small portion of the combat log, and judging by his claim to be wearing PTV, I’d say that he had just stepped away from his zerg while a roaming thief was picking off stragglers and injured. Just because a thief can burst you down doesn’t mean they’re OP. A warrior can deal 33k damage with 100 Blades and combined with a stun lock there’s nothing you can do about it. Nobody ever says, “OMG WARRIORS OP.” There’s plenty you can do about a backstab thief. Learn it.

Thats weird, I could never get my dps over 7k even though I am using a zerker amulet.

runeblade.7514:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Fortus.6175:

Viking Jorun.5413:

This is why thieves keep getting nerfed. I’m tired of it. You can all complain about how “OP” thieves are, but in reality you don’t understand them. When I tell you to learn to play one to learn to beat one, I mean it. We don’t need anymore of these “thief OP nerf plz omg” threads. Our name as thieves is already soiled by people who play the class solely for the stupid high burst damage, and every nerf to backstab thieves is a nerf to every other thief build. Please learn to play a thief before you make your next post about us in this forum.

Tired of it,
~Kid Legacy, Team Legacy [TL]

EDIT: Balance is an illusion. Zacchary.6183, a fellow thief made an excellent post not a few days ago describing the difference between true imbalance and cyclical imbalance. It really is a matter of L2P. Get over it.

ALSO: Your screenshot shows the result of combat over 1 minute, not 1 second.

" WAHHHHH I cant stand the thought of my class getting balanced!!" Face it, they do their job of kill too darn well, too well, uncouterably well. Its not fun to fight them, even if they were to be “balanced”, which they arent.

At the “ALSO”, were you droped as a…….ahh forget it. Look at the time, there is such as a thing called CLOCK KEEPS GOING, the gith happened at the end of 7:00, hence why it goes all the way to 7:01, if you look closer at the CD of the shield and look it up, loo at the current time on the mini you will see that it says 7:02, you make the math, 75 secs CD on the shield and used it right before the backstab wich is when he went into stealth for 1 sec

That doesn’t mean that the thief did it in less than 1 second. I highly doubt that he was at full health when he was attacked by the thief. A smart backstab thief never goes after an enemy with full health (unless they’re up leveled) just as a lion never goes after a fully-grown gazelle. It goes after the injured and the young. We only see a small portion of the combat log, and judging by his claim to be wearing PTV, I’d say that he had just stepped away from his zerg while a roaming thief was picking off stragglers and injured. Just because a thief can burst you down doesn’t mean they’re OP. A warrior can deal 33k damage with 100 Blades and combined with a stun lock there’s nothing you can do about it. Nobody ever says, “OMG WARRIORS OP.” There’s plenty you can do about a backstab thief. Learn it.

Thats weird, I could never get my dps over 7k even though I am using a zerker amulet.

The damage difference between PvP and PvE is just that. On other players I was never able to achieve more than 18k, but mobs could take upwards of 35k damage with 100b, 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vulnerability with zerk’d everything. A zerker warrior in PvP can take out the keep lord in Foefire in just a few rotations to stack might and vulnerability and one 100b combo. If being able to kill the keep lord in less than 10 seconds isn’t stronger than a thief’s backstab damage I don’t know what is.

Fortus.6175:

Excalibur.9748:

isn’t 12.5k health elementalist = full zerker?

no, 10.5k to 11k hp is full zerker, if you dont believe me then go ahead, be my guess and create a ele and put on Beserker, but dont do it on the one in PvP, there the zerker gem has vitality on it, in PvE is only power/pres/crit, the closer you can get to that is valkyrie on PvP, wil give you 10.5khp flat. Also, I remind you that only acces had PVT and only some of them, the rest had valkiry since PVT adds nothing to my damage output and I do need damage coming from somewhere.

you cant get lower than 10.8k hp :P just saying

Viking Jorun.5413:

runeblade.7514:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Fortus.6175:

Viking Jorun.5413:

This is why thieves keep getting nerfed. I’m tired of it. You can all complain about how “OP” thieves are, but in reality you don’t understand them. When I tell you to learn to play one to learn to beat one, I mean it. We don’t need anymore of these “thief OP nerf plz omg” threads. Our name as thieves is already soiled by people who play the class solely for the stupid high burst damage, and every nerf to backstab thieves is a nerf to every other thief build. Please learn to play a thief before you make your next post about us in this forum.

Tired of it,
~Kid Legacy, Team Legacy [TL]

EDIT: Balance is an illusion. Zacchary.6183, a fellow thief made an excellent post not a few days ago describing the difference between true imbalance and cyclical imbalance. It really is a matter of L2P. Get over it.

ALSO: Your screenshot shows the result of combat over 1 minute, not 1 second.

" WAHHHHH I cant stand the thought of my class getting balanced!!" Face it, they do their job of kill too darn well, too well, uncouterably well. Its not fun to fight them, even if they were to be “balanced”, which they arent.

At the “ALSO”, were you droped as a…….ahh forget it. Look at the time, there is such as a thing called CLOCK KEEPS GOING, the gith happened at the end of 7:00, hence why it goes all the way to 7:01, if you look closer at the CD of the shield and look it up, loo at the current time on the mini you will see that it says 7:02, you make the math, 75 secs CD on the shield and used it right before the backstab wich is when he went into stealth for 1 sec

That doesn’t mean that the thief did it in less than 1 second. I highly doubt that he was at full health when he was attacked by the thief. A smart backstab thief never goes after an enemy with full health (unless they’re up leveled) just as a lion never goes after a fully-grown gazelle. It goes after the injured and the young. We only see a small portion of the combat log, and judging by his claim to be wearing PTV, I’d say that he had just stepped away from his zerg while a roaming thief was picking off stragglers and injured. Just because a thief can burst you down doesn’t mean they’re OP. A warrior can deal 33k damage with 100 Blades and combined with a stun lock there’s nothing you can do about it. Nobody ever says, “OMG WARRIORS OP.” There’s plenty you can do about a backstab thief. Learn it.

Thats weird, I could never get my dps over 7k even though I am using a zerker amulet.

The damage difference between PvP and PvE is just that. On other players I was never able to achieve more than 18k, but mobs could take upwards of 35k damage with 100b, 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vulnerability with zerk’d everything. A zerker warrior in PvP can take out the keep lord in Foefire in just a few rotations to stack might and vulnerability and one 100b combo. If being able to kill the keep lord in less than 10 seconds isn’t stronger than a thief’s backstab damage I don’t know what is.

not going to disagree with the warrior comment….but 2 fun facts —--

1) lions dont hunt….lionesses do.
2) they go after the sick and young bc they often dont get them in their first try. its not bc they CANT take a larger target…but bc if they miss they want to conserve energy and not waste it especially in 110 degree dry heat! its a conservation method. lions and lionesses dont eat as well as you think. they stretch it long times between meals (in other words longer than they should) and end up hunting on low energy. but yeah thats why :P

gennyt.3428:

No. invisibility != invulnerability though I can now how you’d think that by re-reading my post. My point is, being unseen in intrinsically advantageous(it’s almost like the Devs don’t know how human beings work), then add the extreme burst damage and the initiative system to that and there will be problems.

Tbh them not being able to be seen doesn’t matter that much. They’ll still need to come at you. In fact… they need to get behind you (using this example because this is a backstab QQ thread). Use that predictable behavior against them. If you play your cards right with blocks/invulns/dodges/evades/cripples/fears/chills etc. (depending on the class that you are on) they’ll be very hard pressed to burst you. Then your toughness&vit won’t need to be your main defense. You just need ways of stopping/mitigating bursts (which is hardly thief specific advice btw).

Dog.1472:

I lol’d when I saw this was moved to the thief forum. Mods are great sometimes.

Thanks guys for bringing some sanity to the thread.

What if they do that on purpose because they know this forum is filled with rabid wolves waiting to tear apart the inexperienced?

Heil to the troll of trolls, Zacchary is among us

There’s proper way to react against cloak and dagger, against a D/D awakeness should be enough,

Backstab damage is ok, what is not ok is that a backstab to Anet means everything but “in the middle of the eyes”,

jonwar.4186:

Mesmers – Can no longer use phantasms, clones, ports, stealths, or confusion

I had to laugh and call attention to this…

All aspects of mesmer gameplay listed above have been significantly weakened since launch at the request of, largely, thieves posting in the SPvP and mesmer forums.

Dog.1472:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Your intent may not have been a thread directing the devs to nerf thieves, but that’s what it’s become. There’s a high risk factor to every fight when playing glass, yet people don’t see it. Invisibility =/= invulnerability. A successful attack against a stealthed GC thief does significant damage and they often cripple under heavy AoE (which the ele has a lot of!).

Stop calling for an all-out nerf to thieves. In Street Fighter did you spam buttons against every opponent you fought against? You probably didn’t get far in the game if you did. Learning to fight other classes is the same way. A simple dodge can mess up a glass thief’s entire rotation and at that point, they have very little initiative left. Your ele is obviously as glassy as they come judging by how quickly you went down and you’re exactly the type of player glass cannon thieves excel in killing: slow, unresponsive, and definitely NOT wearing any sort of PTV gear.

Had you built for more survivability, that thief would never have had a shot at killing you while you were in the midst of your group. Don’t blame the thief for your failure. Blame yourself and get better instead of being a bad player whining about being ganked on the forums.

I’m sorry, but common sense is lost here.

It would seem the majority of the people here can’t handle the concept that they are bad players. In their minds they are the greatest thing to have ever graced the fields of WvW and therefore, being killed means everything is unbalanced.

Did I make a mistake here? Nope, IMBA.

You are completely right. OP is a troll or very bad player, and i suggest to fellow thieves just ignore such threads and posts, why we must prove obvious facts. There is a legion of terri/bad players. OP is a terri/bad player, this is obvious for any person who have some pvp experience. Abd that ele deserve to die again and again and so on till the end of time, cause he hopeless, and he never learn to play properly.

OP, I would do the same thing to you with my zerk guardian, or a zerk warrior, or a zerk mesmer, or a zerk, well, you get the point (I hope). Thief is not the only class that can do this to you.
Also, it’s not a problem with thief or ele. I was in a 3v1 vs a thief with my level 17 staff ele and the thief, seeing that I was upleveled, focused on me. I managed (as a staff ele nonetheless) to avoid being bursted down and stunned him almost every time he tried to black powder→heartseeker, and when he did get it off, I dodged with perfect timing every time by anticipating when he would hit based on where he was when he stealthed. It seriously is an l2p issue here. Learn to anticipate, react, and not go glass cannon unless you are either fine with getting one-shot by thieves or other glass cannons, or are really good at your class’s active defense (in the ele’s case, mist form, stuns, dodges, and good healing).