Guild Wars 2

Well I got annoyed with thieves and glass cannons in general so instead of complaining I decided to go in the complete other path and stack toughness like a monkey.
ended up with just over 4000, SS shows base without food buffs and no thief can kill me ever, never ever. I drew a picture for visual help.

totalpwnage.6534:

Well I got annoyed with thieves and glass cannons in general so instead of complaining I decided to go in the complete other path and stack toughness like a monkey.
ended up with just over 4000, SS shows base without food buffs and no thief can kill me ever, never ever. I drew a picture for visual help.

This picture is 100% pure awesome. I thank you for cheering up my morning

Fortus.6175:

Wolfheart.1938:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Also I don’t s/t-pvp, but from what I’ve read they don’t exist in the higher tiers.

Nah they exist and are in a good spot I’d say. The recent EU qualifiers had plenty of them.

yeah, people will believe anything that is convinient to them. To all those who think there arent thieves in high tiers, bother to watch some of those games, play yourself sPvP and you will see how much they actually are in there. Stop tinking they suck, there is a reason they are so strong in PvP, an d thats because they are too effective at killing even in 2v2 and 3v3 scenarios.

And what build were this thieves running? I can guarantee you it wasn’t D/D (which is what this QQ thread is all about)…

Burnfall.9573:

Let me put this in a Realistic example..

A. Thief with HeavyBody Armor/Perma-Stealth— equipped with Machine Gun
B. Any Class without any Body Armor— equipped with a Handgun

HUH? How is this in any way realistic?

Thieves can’t use Machine Guns…

I’m in agreement with the OP. Before I start the post I would like to state that my 2 main characters are a warrior and thief but I also have a level 80 guardian, ele and mesmer. The simple fact of the matter is, there are theives who can take out teams of people on their own, because of the folllowing abilities they have which are exclusive to them:

1: They can go into stealth and regenerate health, and no-one can do anything to them when they are stealthed because they don’t know where they are. I can go into a crowd and maybe take out a person or two if I’m lucky with my warrior, but that’s it, I’ll get focussed on and killed.

2: They can stomp people in stealth. You can counter this argument all you like with “oh but you spam aoe spells over the downed ally”. Anyone who’s played this game and a thief for more than 5 minutes knows about that, and how to avoid it. The thief is the only character in the game who can stomp someone without anyone else knowing he’s doing it. Yes, I can be a warrior and set endure pain and stomp, or any class that has quickness and stomp, but then that’ll run out in about 5 seconds and then I’m focussed on and dead, as oppose to a theif who just, well……. restealths. There is no other class in the game which has a skill this useful, and it’s the reason why theoretically, a thief could take out a small zerg over time.

3: They are the only class with no cooldowns on their skills. Yes, thieves have initiative which is their “cooldown”, but that doesn’t mean they have cooldowns on any particular skill. Let’s take heartseeker, one of the hardest hitting skills in the game, which automatically takes you too the target. This can be repeated 3 or 4 times in a row with no restriction, yes you run out of initiative to use your other weapon skills, but then you have your utilities to get out of the way. Let’s compare this again to a warrior for example (thief and warrior are my main characters). The thief’s spammability of heartseeker is the equivalent of the warrior being able to spam bull’s charge/100 blades 4 times in a row without a cooldown. In fact heartseeker is better than that, becuase it does the damage instantly as oppose to being rooted with 100 blades.

If you look at the above 3 points, it’s quite clear why the thief is over-powered in a WvW setting anyway. There is absolutely no other class in the game who can run in to a group of 10+ people, kill some of them and escape alive. If I’m mistaken, please link me to a youtube video so I can roll that class.

1: They can go into stealth and regenerate health, and no-one can do anything to them when they are stealthed because they don’t know where they are. I can go into a crowd and maybe take out a person or two if I’m lucky with my warrior, but that’s it, I’ll get focussed on and killed.

Really? I kill stealthed thieves all the time. It’s not hard as long as you don’t just say, “Oh, he vanished, guess I give up.”

2: They can stomp people in stealth. You can counter this argument all you like with “oh but you spam aoe spells over the downed ally”. Anyone who’s played this game and a thief for more than 5 minutes knows about that, and how to avoid it. The thief is the only character in the game who can stomp someone without anyone else knowing he’s doing it. Yes, I can be a warrior and set endure pain and stomp, or any class that has quickness and stomp, but then that’ll run out in about 5 seconds and then I’m focussed on and dead, as oppose to a theif who just, well……. restealths. There is no other class in the game which has a skill this useful, and it’s the reason why theoretically, a thief could take out a small zerg over time.

If a thief stealths to stomp, he’s still there. Again, unless you’re one of these, “Oh, he vanished, I give up.” people, you can easily just down the thief while he’s trying to stomp. There are FAR better ways to get a stomp off if you want to do it while in a group of enemies.

3: They are the only class with no cooldowns on their skills. Yes, thieves have initiative which is their “cooldown”, but that doesn’t mean they have cooldowns on any particular skill. Let’s take heartseeker, one of the hardest hitting skills in the game, which automatically takes you too the target. This can be repeated 3 or 4 times in a row with no restriction, yes you run out of initiative to use your other weapon skills, but then you have your utilities to get out of the way. Let’s compare this again to a warrior for example (thief and warrior are my main characters). The thief’s spammability of heartseeker is the equivalent of the warrior being able to spam bull’s charge/100 blades 4 times in a row without a cooldown. In fact heartseeker is better than that, becuase it does the damage instantly as oppose to being rooted with 100 blades.

Heartseeker is not “one of the hardest hitting skills in the game”. That right there makes your entire argument pretty silly.

There is absolutely no other class in the game who can run in to a group of 10+ people, kill some of them and escape alive. If I’m mistaken, please link me to a youtube video so I can roll that class.

Thieves can’t do that, either. At least not reasonably. Sure, sometimes a Thief will find some braindead group of people like the OP and kill one, but in that instance any other class could have done it too.

Hell, if people are dumb enough to let one thief just run around in their group because “Oh no he went invisible, lets just give up” then I’m sure they’re also the sort that will spend 10 minutes chasing Mesmer clones around while the Mesmer kills them all. (Yeah, there’s videos of that, too)

Every part of your argument assumes that the only people who fight these sort of thieves are people who just say “oh no he went invisible, let’s just give up”.

I’m not one of those people. Like I said I main a thief also so I generally a good idea of what they’re trying to do. Again I’ll use my warrior example. If I have a downed ally, I cannot in any way shape or form see what the thief is doing. I could ASSUME he’s going for the stomp, ok so I’ll waste my 100 blades on him. What if he’s actually not there? Then my 100 blades is on cooldown, meaning that when the thief comes out of stealth, I do not have that 100 blades ready for the bull’s charge 100 blades combo Alternatively I could just use my auto attack and stand there, but that won’t kill any non-full zerker theif, personally my thief wears Valks armor so I can easily take a few hits of auto attacks while stomping someone.

The point of the argument is, there is no way to KNOW if the thief is going for the stomp or not. If you suspect a thief is stealth reviving someone, know for certain, or when I’m fighting a thief I know anyway because I just pay close attention to the downed person’s HP bar, if it’s going up too fast I know he’s being revived and I 100 blades that area. But you cannot tell whether or not the thief is going for the stomp, so you either put some of your skills on cooldown and attack the area (in which time the thief might actually be behind you ready for a backstab), or you just auto attack the area and slightly damage him.

Ok, let’s assume we’ve got a well geared thief, what single hitting and insta-cast skills in the game are much harder hitting than heartseeker? At a guess I’d say warrior’s eviserate. What else? Please give an example being as my argument is silly. It may not be THEE hardest, but it’s certainly among the top, and the cast time is almost nothing.

So heartseeker, being on 0 cooldown, is over-powered.

“Thieves can’t do that, either. At least not reasonably. Sure, sometimes a Thief will find some braindead group of people like the OP and kill one, but in that instance any other class could have done it too.”

You’ve more or less just mumbled on your own words there and admitted that a thief can do it. Other classes just cannot do it. Thieves can, which you admit.

So the TL;DR here is that you’re going to just insist that everyone that the thief is playing against are idiots and so stealth is therefore impossible to counter. (Also that Heartseeker spam is the strongest thing in the game?)

Standard fare for these forums. Carry on.

Don’t forget that initiative is shared with the second weapon set and heartseeker is strong only when your health is 25%-0%.
If a thief kills you only with hs sorry man, but isnt a thief issue, becouse this means that you don’t know the existence of CCs and how to dodge.

I post this long ago, but maybe players need to learn the truth behind glass cannons. The glass cannon thieves are gimmicks that die when they get caught. You can kill that “invisible thief” with a glass cannon XXX profession, just see how I killed the invisible thieves.

(This video was created when Anet thought it was a good idea to have thieves get their stealth revealed to 4 seconds.)

Thanks for the above 3 posts everyone. I honestly had no idea these things existed on a thief.

What’s the point of that video? To prove to everyone how not powerful the thief is? The player himself admits that he’s an average player well he’s actually worse than average, and yet at 1:02 after having the attempt at killing the guardian (arguably the hardest class to take down in WvW) he avoids dying to the oncoming zerg just from going stealth. Something no other class can do, so he’s still “in the fight” without having to respawn and having to run all the way back.

And I say he’s below average, because either he is purposely playing bad to try and prove his point, or he’s just stupid, but at around the 57 seconds mark, he stops targeting the guardian and targets his own thief (from thieves guild) instead and tries to heartseeker about 3 times in a row, the Guardian would have been downed if he was targetting the right thing.

Showing a video of a terrible thief player doesn’t prove anything. Now go and watch this video where about 5 mins into the video, a P/D condition thief kills multiple people in a row and just goes stealth whenever he wants to reset any fights.

As I mentioned, show me a video where anyone else does that so I can roll that class please.

Showing a video of a terrible thief player doesn’t prove anything. Now go and watch this video where about 5 mins into the video, a P/D condition thief kills multiple people in a row and just goes stealth whenever he wants to reset any fights.

Hot new info, PvP videos tend to be “highlight reels” where the player shows a few “once in a blue moon” fights.

You can find the same kind of videos for other classes too. Look at some of the popular Mesmer PvP videos, the guys go on absurd rampages killing tons of people all because they found that “once in a blue moon” fight where the 5 people chasing them don’t know what Clones are. Or Elementalist videos where they find a pack of 5 people that don’t know how to dodge and they all get totally destroyed by a D/D opener.

i think BS and HS spam are out of balance ! they are too cheap, and hit hard !

start at 9:02 if you want to see him run from a zerg, and after that decimate zergs. Watch the whole video if you want to see him kill lots of people (including thieves gasp)
guess you better go roll a guardian…

haha Craig are you kidding me? Exaggeration or what. He runs away from a group of about 5 people, and then on the last bit he jumps into a group of 4 upleveled players reviving their friend and spams his greatsword 5. That’s your interpretation of decimating zergs? hahahaha.

The rest of the video is him in 1v1’s. Seriously you’ve gotta be kidding me. A thief woudln’t have had to run away from that group at 9:02, he’d just go invisible and pick them off one at a time.

Gutts.8791:

haha Craig are you kidding me? Exaggeration or what. He runs away from a group of about 5 people, and then on the last bit he jumps into a group of 4 upleveled players reviving their friend and spams his greatsword 5. That’s your interpretation of decimating zergs? hahahaha.

The rest of the video is him in 1v1’s. Seriously you’ve gotta be kidding me. A thief woudln’t have had to run away from that group at 9:02, he’d just go invisible and pick them off one at a time.

Any group of players that lets a thief ‘pick them off’ needs to uninstall. Seriously, just delete the game, never again install any competitive game again, stick with single player player. A thief CANNOT get a stomp off against competent players, and if your idea of when a class deserves nerfs is how they perform against incompetent players well…….

Anyone still have that video where 2 elementalists vs 20+ players, where the 2 eles managed to kill a number of them?

LoneWolfie.1852:

Anyone still have that video where 2 elementalists vs 20+ players, where the 2 eles managed to kill a number of them?

that video shows us how op are thieves. no matter is there are eles.

Btw man, the wild bill video is dated 26 oct 2012. Why didnt you take something from beta? This is too new.

LoneWolfie.1852:

Anyone still have that video where 2 elementalists vs 20+ players, where the 2 eles managed to kill a number of them?

you talk about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-919RMwyfnk
this group was very well played and organized PvPer. no doubt they could beat down the mindless pve focused zerg who played without a voice chat (i assume).
Ele class is now nerfed hard and no longer that strong as shown in the vid. you can no longer heal in the mist form, RTL nerf, etc..

Let me get this right…

You’re a Staff Ele w/ 12K HP, likely speced for zerg fighting, and complaining that a thief, who was speced for 1v1s, killed you?

I don’t even have anything to say to that…

DanH.5879:

i think BS and HS spam are out of balance ! they are too cheap, and hit hard !

Not for a single target skill

LoneWolfie.1852:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PGp7G_OKfc

I post this long ago, but maybe players need to learn the truth behind glass cannons. The glass cannon thieves are gimmicks that die when they get caught. You can kill that “invisible thief” with a glass cannon XXX profession, just see how I killed the invisible thieves.

(This video was created when Anet thought it was a good idea to have thieves get their stealth revealed to 4 seconds.)

I don’t want to enter in this topic, but posting a video of you not being capable to land a single HS on a guardian, probably with a lot of toughness, when he’s at low health proves nothing at all.

I am most annoyed with sword/dagger thieves. They just have too many good things with just their weapon set. Stripping my only 3 boons(with a 60sec cd) within seconds and then evading all over the kittening place. Plus the ability to throw stealth in the mix if they ever actually get low in hp. 1v1’s are almost impossible to beat one on my warrior,(gs/bow).

OMG look on the OP key layout…. may be he turns with keyboard also…

Shemsu, plenty of thieves get stomps off against competent players. They can because they can do it in stealth, which is the point I’m trying to get accross. And they can do it multiple times because their cooldown on stealth is like 4 seconds, any other class who has a skill that allows for fast or invulnerable stomping normally has a cooldown of 60.

There’s no point in typing a rage message about everyone who gets killed by a thief should uninstall the game.

Personally, I’ve learnt to deal very well with thieves with my warrior, but that’s A) because I’ve spent about as much time with my thief as I have with my warrior, and, because I generally run around with a specific skillset to deal with thieves in particular because I prefer roaming, and most roamers are thieves.

I’d say I’m a competent player, but if I have a team battle with lets say 5 v 5 and I get downed, they can just send their thief in to stealth stomp me and there’s just absolutely nothing anyone can do about it unless my team mate stands over me and spams his skills on the basis that the thief MIGHT be there. If my team mate does that, then there’s one less person in the battle as he’s protecting me from the invisible threat.

No other class can pose that threat. Seriously, you thief fan boys are so protective of your class you honestly wouldn’t know how to play this game if thief was removed. There’s a reason why so many people complain about the thief, and that is because he has an extremely unique set up which makes him phenomenal in a PvP environment.

My suggestions for balancing the class would be to competely remove backstab, remove stealth stomps and to put a cooldown on heartseeker and that’s just for starters, this would put thief’s heartseeker “finishing move” on a cooldown like any other class has with their high damage finisher. I don’t get unlimited spam of eviscarate with my warrior do I? Plus it’s slower and covers less distance (I believe).

In case you are not aware from not having read my previous posts, I have a thief and I love him. It’s really fun being able to toy with people and do a litle damage then go invisible etc, but being able to backstab someone from invisible for huge damage for no initiative cost, petrify them and heartseeker them to death for an insta kill is just totally cheap and I’d gladly accept the nerf.

Gutts.8791:

My suggestions for balancing the class would be to competely remove backstab, remove stealth stomps and to put a cooldown on heartseeker and that’s just for starters, this would put thief’s heartseeker “finishing move” on a cooldown like any other class has with their high damage finisher. I don’t get unlimited spam of eviscarate with my warrior do I? Plus it’s slower and covers less distance (I believe).

In case you are not aware from not having read my previous posts, I have a thief and I love him. It’s really fun being able to toy with people and do a litle damage then go invisible etc, but being able to backstab someone from invisible for huge damage for no initiative cost, petrify them and heartseeker them to death for an insta kill is just totally cheap and I’d gladly accept the nerf.

No backstab and a cooldown on heartseeker?

What would you have us do? Cloak And Dagger people to death ?

There is a cost of these backstabs, utilities or initiative, and it requires careful positioning or it simply deals half damage.

I’m sure you love your thief, and you have had fun toying with some lvl 2 mobs.
But you seem to have no idea how the class works nor how to counter it.

Other classes have invulnerability and stability stomps, ofc they are at a greater expense but are fully uncounterable by your teammates unlike stealth stomps,
4 ppl swinging over a player getting stealth stomped by a thief will usually down
the thief long before the stomp lands. Guardians, mesmers, warriors, engineers, necromancers, elementalists also have access to aoe knockdowns/cc/stuns
to prevent the thief.

you can also channel that silly throw hammer knockdown skill and it will hit the thief
while he is stealthed.

ROFL luckily most of people are not devs..

My suggestions for balancing the class would be to competely remove backstab, remove stealth stomps and to put a cooldown on heartseeker

then you can agree a muppet in pvp to fight and win against?
so you balance fix is killing a class instead of l2p and adapt? this is the great suggestion?

being able to backstab someone from invisible for huge damage for no initiative cost, petrify them and heartseeker them to death for an insta kill is just totally cheap and I’d gladly accept the nerf.

are you sure to ever played one? maybe was another class or another game becouse this kitten hs story is just a fable. And if someone die becouse of an hypothetical hs spam sorry but deserve to lose

Sigh yet another post:/
Give us perma stealth and then QQ.
I think they kitten eles too much.. But not so long ago the QQ was on bunker eles:)
Why do you go fire and not earth att? It is more defensive if I am correct.. Or Air RL to escape.

Stealth: 3cd after a hit in stealth. Max 4 sec stealth if bot stacked or SR.
SR nerfed to insta break if not there for full duration.
Cannot stack stealth by falling.
Get aoe dmg or can be hit while in stealth.
Miss with C’n’D can be crucial for victories or failure.
Tend to have low health or/and armour when specced to high crits.

Eles got low health and the weakest tier of armour.. But aldo got a lot of survival abilities and traits you could go for Churning Earth pre-cast and lightning flash is like an aoe BS with bleed
I find the game okay balanced.. Ppl should remember to dodge or swift 180* turn:)

Ghostwolf, you are completely incompetent aren’t you and you have no idea what balance is in a game.

“What would you have us do? Cloak And Dagger people to death ?”

No, you’d use CnD to go invisible and then launch sustained DPS attacks from stealth, maybe a mixture of flat dps and conditions, and then use the thieves almost perma evades from 15 points into acrobatics to duck in and out of the fight, go stealth again when in trouble, actually have to use skill.

“There is a cost of these backstabs, utilities or initiative, and it requires careful positioning or it simply deals half damage.”

Shut up. Activate bas venom, press dagger 5, press steal before the animation ends to be automatically teleported to the target, hit them with CnD AND turn them into stone, go behind them and backstab for massive damage. Something goes wrong, oh just roll out of the way and Hide In Shadoes. That requires a toddler’s skill level which is obviously the level a fanboy like yourself is at.
“Other classes have invulnerability and stability stomps, ofc they are at a greater expense but are fully uncounterable by your teammates unlike stealth stomps,
4 ppl swinging over a player getting stealth stomped by a thief will usually down
the thief long before the stomp lands.”

You even admit that the invuln stomps are at a greater expense. Seriously, a warrior for example has his skill on a 60 second cooldown as oppose to the thief’s 4 second CD on stealth, that doesn’t allow for killing multiple people in succession, it allows for killing 2 people.

So in in a small scale 5 v 5 fight, if one person is downed, then the rest of the 4 people on that team should just stand above auto-attacking their downed friend in the hope that the theif MIGHT be there.

“you can also channel that silly throw hammer knockdown skill and it will hit the thief
while he is stealthed.”

You are seriously braindead aren’t you. That or you just haven’t actually played as a thief yourself. If you can’t stealth stomp someone and avoid their knockdown then you don’t deserve to post on any forum about a thief becuase you clearly lack the knowledge and understand of the class to have progressed anywhere further than the starter quests.

The stealth mechanic in this game does have a silly design, but seriously? You were basically asking to get destroyed.

Gutts.8791:

Ghostwolf, you are completely incompetent aren’t you and you have no idea what balance is in a game.

“What would you have us do? Cloak And Dagger people to death ?”

No, you’d use CnD to go invisible and then launch sustained DPS attacks from stealth, maybe a mixture of flat dps and conditions, and then use the thieves almost perma evades from 15 points into acrobatics to duck in and out of the fight, go stealth again when in trouble, actually have to use skill.

“There is a cost of these backstabs, utilities or initiative, and it requires careful positioning or it simply deals half damage.”

Shut up. Activate bas venom, press dagger 5, press steal before the animation ends to be automatically teleported to the target, hit them with CnD AND turn them into stone, go behind them and backstab for massive damage. Something goes wrong, oh just roll out of the way and Hide In Shadoes. That requires a toddler’s skill level which is obviously the level a fanboy like yourself is at.
“Other classes have invulnerability and stability stomps, ofc they are at a greater expense but are fully uncounterable by your teammates unlike stealth stomps,
4 ppl swinging over a player getting stealth stomped by a thief will usually down
the thief long before the stomp lands.”

You even admit that the invuln stomps are at a greater expense. Seriously, a warrior for example has his skill on a 60 second cooldown as oppose to the thief’s 4 second CD on stealth, that doesn’t allow for killing multiple people in succession, it allows for killing 2 people.

So in in a small scale 5 v 5 fight, if one person is downed, then the rest of the 4 people on that team should just stand above auto-attacking their downed friend in the hope that the theif MIGHT be there.

“you can also channel that silly throw hammer knockdown skill and it will hit the thief
while he is stealthed.”

You are seriously braindead aren’t you. That or you just haven’t actually played as a thief yourself. If you can’t stealth stomp someone and avoid their knockdown then you don’t deserve to post on any forum about a thief becuase you clearly lack the knowledge and understand of the class to have progressed anywhere further than the starter quests.

That old D/D combo is older then dirt. Any player worth his or her salt will use the Bas Venom as a cue to stunbreak, then you have to wait for your Bas Venom and Assassin’s Signet to come off cooldown. If you fumble and get yourself revealed, they’ll just CC you when they see you try to cast Hide in Shadow.
There’s a reason D/D’s been dropped for D/P
(Also Warrior also has stab on 40 seconds as well, you’re making it sound worse then it is to boost your point)

Dual.8953:

That old D/D combo is older then dirt. Any player worth his or her salt will use the Bas Venom as a cue to stunbreak, then you have to wait for your Bas Venom and Assassin’s Signet to come off cooldown. If you fumble and get yourself revealed, they’ll just CC you when they see you try to cast Hide in Shadow.
There’s a reason D/D’s been dropped for D/P
(Also Warrior also has stab on 40 seconds as well, you’re making it sound worse then it is to boost your point)

I’ve personally switched over to to D/P myself, and it’s just child’s play. Unlimited stealth whenever, I’ve even dropped Hide In Shadows for Withdraw because I just don’t need any more stealth.

Sorry Dual, I don’t quite understand what you mean about “Warrior also has stab on 40 seconds”. Please can you clarify? What do you mean and what skill are you talking about?

Gutts.8791:

Dual.8953:

That old D/D combo is older then dirt. Any player worth his or her salt will use the Bas Venom as a cue to stunbreak, then you have to wait for your Bas Venom and Assassin’s Signet to come off cooldown. If you fumble and get yourself revealed, they’ll just CC you when they see you try to cast Hide in Shadow.
There’s a reason D/D’s been dropped for D/P
(Also Warrior also has stab on 40 seconds as well, you’re making it sound worse then it is to boost your point)

I’ve personally switched over to to D/P myself, and it’s just child’s play. Unlimited stealth whenever, I’ve even dropped Hide In Shadows for Withdraw because I just don’t need any more stealth.

Sorry Dual, I don’t quite understand what you mean about “Warrior also has stab on 40 seconds”. Please can you clarify? What do you mean and what skill are you talking about?

Balanced Stance. It’s a stunbreak which grants Stability and Swiftness for 8 seconds and has a 40 second cooldown. I know that doesn’t match CnD or BP+HS, or even just BP in in and of itself, but it’s there.
Personally I’m confused as to how one can evade an attack during a stealth stomp without blowing Shadow Step or cancelling the stomp.
I’m also unsure how removing BS would effect Thieves in all metas. The burst of BS is how D/x thieves make themselves useful in PvP as roaming bunker busters. Maybe if they decreased the damage, but made it ignore Protection and Aegis, while applying Poison. Thieves’d still be the bane of bunkers, but be a mite weaker against the other balanced sets.
Bare in mind I can count on my hand how many times I’ve run burst on my thief, prefering control.

sorrow.2364:

LoneWolfie.1852:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PGp7G_OKfc

I post this long ago, but maybe players need to learn the truth behind glass cannons. The glass cannon thieves are gimmicks that die when they get caught. You can kill that “invisible thief” with a glass cannon XXX profession, just see how I killed the invisible thieves.

(This video was created when Anet thought it was a good idea to have thieves get their stealth revealed to 4 seconds.)

I don’t want to enter in this topic, but posting a video of you not being capable to land a single HS on a guardian, probably with a lot of toughness, when he’s at low health proves nothing at all.

You mean where heartseeker randomly fails to hit when the enemy is moving about without using dodge/blind on me? You guys should be happy when we miss and waste our init.

Bovinity.8610:

So the TL;DR here is that you’re going to just insist that everyone that the thief is playing against are idiots and so stealth is therefore impossible to counter. (Also that Heartseeker spam is the strongest thing in the game?)

Standard fare for these forums. Carry on.

I think that he’s trying to say the opposite,

Thieves (well… some of them because most at WvW are trash) are NOT idiots and while stealthed they are not going to take unnecesary risks and act in a predictable way,

At least when I play my thief I try to be the less predictable I can, and i’m not THAT good,

EDIT:

And a smart use of stealth in my humble opinion is the closest thing to invulnerability, (or impunity if you wanna put it like that) BUT you can also deal damage and use your skills, (contrary to endure pain or renewed focus that also just last for a few seconds and are abilities with high cooldowns),

I think that he’s trying to say the opposite,

No, he says things like this:

You are seriously braindead aren’t you. That or you just haven’t actually played as a thief yourself. If you can’t stealth stomp someone and avoid their knockdown then you don’t deserve to post on any forum about a thief becuase you clearly lack the knowledge and understand of the class to have progressed anywhere further than the starter quests.

Basically every post of his assumes that the Thief is the best player in the game and the 10 people he’s killing are all total idiots. The Thief is presumed to be able to avoid all knockbacks and such from the opposing team AND still get the stomp off before stealth wears off, but the other players are presumed to just be fumbling about not doing anything because in his analysis everything they do is wrong, so apparently they do nothing.

Backstabs are extremely easy to predict. Even if it hot you should have dodged the follow-up. It would be nice if backstab took initiative though, like ambush in world of warcraft.

Thieves are not the problem, perma-stealth is. The sooner it is dead, the better.

Oh, and after the perma stealth nerf, thieves without a sword need a serious buff.

Engels.8537:

Bovinity.8610:

So the TL;DR here is that you’re going to just insist that everyone that the thief is playing against are idiots and so stealth is therefore impossible to counter. (Also that Heartseeker spam is the strongest thing in the game?)

Standard fare for these forums. Carry on.

I think that he’s trying to say the opposite,

Thieves (well… some of them because most at WvW are trash) are NOT idiots and while stealthed they are not going to take unnecesary risks and act in a predictable way,

At least when I play my thief I try to be the less predictable I can, and i’m not THAT good,

EDIT:

And a smart use of stealth in my humble opinion is the closest thing to invulnerability, (or impunity if you wanna put it like that) BUT you can also deal damage and use your skills, (contrary to endure pain or renewed focus that also just last for a few seconds and are abilities with high cooldowns),

With the difference that while stealthed you CAN TAKE DAMAGE.
A smart thief who not takes unnecesary risks (aka a thief who run away) is a thief who doesnt kill. And you are alive. So where is the problem in wvw?
A lot of people start to chase then they die after an ambush… from a class designed for this kind of stuff. Why the hell should be a thief problem? You play and you take your risks.
And invulnerability skills have a long cooldown becouse, always in wvw, you can save your kitten if you facing an enemy zerg/group of players (aka you can be targetted). The same group that, if smart enough, can hold to the ground a thief and kill him. Becouse again a thief in stealth can be hitted. And a glass cannon thief isnt a guardian or a warrior. Why the point is always how op are thieves and noone trys to compare their utility in groups (buff, heals, CCs, etc) ?
Why the point is always how op are thieves and never the people that run away instead of keep hitting and looking at the red circles?

Erm… think you lot are missing the point. They’re called THIEVES. Being hard to catch is kinda the point. Wouldn’t make very good thieves if they were as easy to catch as some pleb with full plate and a greatsword.

Thieves are actually a bit below average in 1v1s and way below average for anything group related.

L2P

Are you new to this game? Not trying to be rude, I’m just curious.

shadowraith.9124:

Thieves are actually a bit below average in 1v1s and way below average for anything group related.

Cool story son,

This isnt so wrong. Not correct but also not wrong.

It’s dependent on the gamemodi

Engels.8537:

shadowraith.9124:

Thieves are actually a bit below average in 1v1s and way below average for anything group related.

Cool story son,

Equally skilled Mesmer, Engi, Necro, BM ranger, D/D ele will comfortably beat a thief in 1v1. That places them just below average.

Gutts.8791:

No, you’d use CnD to go invisible and then launch us stained DPS attacks from stealth, maybe a mixture of flat dps and conditions, and then use the thieves almost perma evades from 15 points into acrobatics to duck in and out of the fight, go stealth again when in trouble, actually have to use skill.

So you suggest that we should go in stealth only to start autoattacking? Unless pistol mainhand which has a decently balanced stealth attack. And fyi, backstabs heavy damage serve us for defense as much at it does for offense, it forces whoever you hit successfully to play defensive instead of going full offense and pumping out as much dmg as possible as soon as we are out of stealth.

Gutts.8791:

Activate bas venom, press dagger 5, press steal before the animation ends to be automatically teleported to the target, hit them with CnD AND turn them into stone, go behind them and backstab for massive damage. Something goes wrong, oh just roll out of the way and Hide In Shadoes. That requires a toddler’s skill level which is obviously the level a fanboy like yourself is at.

Sure, works on players with 0 reaction, 0 defense and 0 skill, just like Bulls charge > Frenzy > Hundred Blades > Whirlwind Attack. It takes a bit more of these 3 attributes to counter a thief which makes the combo a bit easy and I agree, but it also has a greater reward countering it,
a skilled player puts down GC thieves a lot more quickly than they put down for instance a GC guardian or warrior which also has cheap combos.

Gutts.8791:

You even admit that the invuln stomps are at a greater expense. Seriously, a warrior for example has his skill on a 60 second cooldown as oppose to the thief’s 4 second CD on stealth, that doesn’t allow for killing multiple people in succession, it allows for killing 2 people.

I admit yeah, but as I said greater expense = greater result. No one can hurt you while you stand invulnerable stomping someone. And even with stability you still stand there with base 18k+ hp and 2100+ armor, compared to a base 10.8k and 1980+.

Gutts.8791:

So in in a small scale 5 v 5 fight, if one person is downed, then the rest of the 4 people on that team should just stand above auto-attacking their downed friend in the hope that the theif MIGHT be there.

In a team fight you don’t let your teammates die, you do all you can to protect them, if a thief or mesmer is nearby you place out an AoE dmg and CC, stealth the downed player, or ress the downed players with utlities or normally etc. All classes have a way to protect downies except ranger (afaik)

Gutts.8791:

That or you just haven’t actually played as a thief yourself.

1300+ hours on thief, sup?

Gutts.8791:

If you can’t stealth stomp someone and avoid their knockdown then you don’t deserve to post on any forum about a thief becuase you clearly lack the knowledge and understand of the class to have progressed anywhere further than the starter quests

Didn’t say I can’t, just meantioned a few possible counters, by starting to channel the thrown knockdown before the thief stealths buys you some time. He is forced to break the stomp and dodge or get knocked down, buying 2-3 seconds of time can be life saving if your group is wise enough to ress you. If the thief drops blackpowder on top
of you, you can’t do anything to prevent him from stomping and thief isn’t the only
class with AoE blind.

Gutts.8791:

Ghostwolf, you are completely incompetent aren’t you and you have no idea what balance is in a game. Shut up. You are seriously braindead aren’t you.

You should order one of these
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/anger-management-for-everyone-raymond-chip-tafrate/1114891863?ean=9781886230835

And read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_death
My brain works just fine.

I don’t find thief balanced, I agree. It’s impossible to fully balance a stealth class
without breaking it. But I find thief fine as it is, there are classes and builds I can’t kill, there those who can kill me, and there are those which neither of us are able to kill each other. As a thief myself I always find thieves I encounter in WvW as the easiest kills, because there is nothing additional to counter on them just; damage, venoms and stealth.

And what thieves seem OP at makes up for what they are UP at, the game
isn’t balanced around 1v1, and that’s where thief is supreme.
Nerfing thief damage more just because of 25/30/x/x/x, would nerf
all direct dmg builds.

I personally play 0/20/30/20/0 D/P + D/D with 85% crit damage, and hitting 1.2k-1.7k backstabs and 3k-7k on 45% chance doesn’t feel that op, since I mostly
don’t get off any other attacks because I’m usually forced to hit, run, dodge and stealth if I wanna survive killing the other player.

Dante.1508:

Agree with the op always have thieves are broken and need hard counters, its a serious reason i gave up bothering in wvw.

You are not alone.

Within 6-9 months, many people in the large guilds i was a member in, totally left WvW and spent less time playing Gw2 because of thief Imbalances.

“Why give out free repairs to just 1 Invincible class without penalty”, they said.

*It’s unfortunate the way i see it, Arena net finds nothing wrong with theif clas concerning their Catastrophic Negarive impact and Damage to Class Balances, especially in WvW.

As said many times,

The Only Perfect Balanced Class is and Will Always Be; Theif.

All other classes will continue to be Prone for continuation of Severe Nerfs due to

theif class.

So..

Do I trust that Arena net will end this Tyranny?

Guild Wars 2 1 year Anniversary…

Yet nothing atm

I’m not so sure at all..

To say that "many people " left “Gw2 because of thief Imbalances” is bullkitten.

Or cant you evidence it?

Burnfall.9573:

Dante.1508:

Agree with the op always have thieves are broken and need hard counters, its a serious reason i gave up bothering in wvw.

You are not alone.

Within 6-9 months, many people in the large guilds i was a member in, totally left WvW and spent less time playing Gw2 because of thief Imbalances

1) if someone in 6/9 months didnt learn how to deal with thieves isnt an anet problem
2) if a WHOLE GUILD in wvw didnt learn how to fight (against thieves) in 6/9 months isnt an anet problem
3) if someone in a game mode called “world vs world” and not “1vs1 arena” gives up becouse of thieves probably he/she is not in the right game.
Pve maps are always open

Ghostwolf.9863:

And fyi, backstabs heavy damage serve us for defense as much at it does for offense, it forces whoever you hit successfully to play defensive instead of going full offense and pumping out as much dmg as possible as soon as we are out of stealth.

Why does it force this? I purposefully let my hp get low on my eng/mes/guard (from things like backstabs) to try to get the thief to over-commit. If a player can’t recover from a burst while hitting back then they need to work on that (this is hardly thief specific btw). Most WvW-er I see do the wrong thing and just turn tail and run after being burst.

Thief stealth mechanics are broken.

End of story.

Anet has their head so far up it that they cannot fix the problem and it’s too rooted into the theif profession that even if they did/could, it would decimate the class w/o restructuring it completely.

Broken class for broken people who like broken ezmode things.

Amins.3710:

Thief stealth mechanics are broken.

End of story.

Anet has their head so far up it that they cannot fix the problem and it’s too rooted into the theif profession that even if they did/could, it would decimate the class w/o restructuring it completely.

Broken class for broken people who like broken ezmode things.

Nobody’s going to give you credibility when all of your past posts either complain about how “broken” stealth is or are simply troll posts. Stealth is an integral part of thief survivability, and if you think thieves are “OP” because of stealth I ask you to play a thief, grow some chest hair and stop your whining. Only then will you learn how to counter a thief.