Guild Wars 2

…. i don’t see how current thief state and how class spells are balanced is justified. At all. Everything about thief is simply lackluster and weak compared to other classes. Inb4: oh this suggestions would make thief OP etc. Thing is, Anet won’t nerf other classes for the sake of thief, so only solution is to “join” other classes.

So here i will keep posting suggestions. Only for core thief, since DrD gets buffed at costs of core build anyway.

Weapon skills:

Backstab: damage is just too low for the requirements (melee, stealth, from behind). Problem is, other classes just have too much access to prot/invuls/blocks/passives/weakness that makes backstab absolutely useless.

Suggestion: damage increased by 30%, ignores protection and weakness if hit target from behind.

Heartseeker: dmg increased by 10%, applies cripple on target with more than 50% HP.

Headshot: additionally applies confusion and slow.

Black powder: grants protection while standing in it. Blinding powder nerf reverted, now ticks every sec.

Surprise shot (sb from stealth): dmg increased by 400%, applies cripple on top of immob.

Cluster bomb: leaves fire field if not exploded.

Disabling shot: remove freaking backpeddaling animation that locks you down and gets you killed. Should also apply chill on top of cripple.

Choking gas: revert to old functionality or nerf engi grenades. Because engis can throw grenades out of stealth w/o punishment.

All sword attacks: remove unnecessary aftercast.

Utilities:
Signet of shadows: should be stunbreak (see ele signet) and drop smoke field on activation.

Shadow refuge: should make immune to enemy applied reveal and grant stability/resistance if traited into SA. The amount of aoe flying around and dmg it does is so asburd that old counterplays (knockback, revealed) are simply not justified anymore.

Shadowstep should grant resistance on shadow return.

Signet of agility: increase radius.

Smoke screen applies 1 sec protection to allies running through it.

Scorpion wire: should get fixed just like magnet. Increase dmg :/
Heals:
Withdraw should remove slow.

Hide in shadows removes revealed debuff applied by enemy.

Signet of malice: apply weakness to nearbly enemies upon activation.

Traits:

Last refuge removed, replaced by light step: you don’t activate enemy traps/marks etc. when in stealth.

Bountiful theft: boons stolen up to 3, steals all stacks and gives all those stacks not just 1 to thief and teammates (e.g. if 25 might stacks are stolen from ele, then 25 might stacks are transfered to thief/teammates). Granting radius increased to capture point radius. Steal should priorizize might over regen/swiftness.

Quick pockets: additionally reduces recharge on weapon swap.

Bewildering ambush: additionally converts up to 3 boons on target to condis.

Sleight of hand: steal doesn’t trigger enemy passives.

Preparedness: removed from trickery trait line, made baseline. Replaced by trait: steal puts random enemy spell on CD (spells that don’t have CD, are put on 5 sec CD).

Dagger training: poison replaced with torment.

Mug: can crit again.

Trapper respite: traps also apply chill now.

Panic strike: also applies slow.

Revealed training: also grants retal for the duration of reveal.

Exposed weaknes: 20% instead of 10%; attacks from stealth are not affected by block/invul.

Potent poison: increases condi dmg on poisoned targets.

Improvisation: healing seed shouldn’t have CD upon use. The recharge chance should be fixed and work only for equiped utilities.

Executioner: apply extra weakness if target is above 50% (arguable under which condition)

Keen observer: chance to daze target on crit, ICD 20-30 sec?

Flawless strike: dmg increase 15%

Practiced tolerance: revert plz :/

Ankle shot: increases range of ranged weapons by 300 units.

Invigorating precision: affects party members (healing for teammates 10%).

Resilence of shadows: revert to 50% or change to 40% at least

Shadow protector: replaced regen with protection.

Shadows embrace: grants 1-2 sec resistance upon leaving stealth.

Leeching venoms: increase healing. Also affects teammates.

Elites:

Daggerstorm: increase damage to match aoe abilities from other classes (ahemmmmmm).

Basi venom: is small aoe on landing the attack now (120 units radius), ignores invuls/blocks/stability.

Stolen spells:
Whirling axe: should be able to cancel spell with weapon swap/stow weapon … and not waste dodge to actually get out of it !!!!!! >:(

Ice shard: drops frield size of choking gas applying chill every sec.

Tooth stab: add direct dmg, increase amount of bleed stacks :/

Mace head crack: apply weakness along with daze.

Consume plasma: gain ALLLLLLLLL boons. Ahem quickness, ahem resistance.

Throw gunk: changed to slick shoes aoe.

to be continued….

I can feel devs laughing hard. If only one of those suggestions would happen, you win.

Cynz.9437:

Cluster bomb: leaves fire field if not exploded.

Yes, please. Self-combo ability would be even better! :-D

Cynz.9437:

Throw gunk: changed to slick shoes aoe.

This so much. Tbf i kind of enjoy gunk as is a little bit, if only because its one of the few “self-combo” abilities we have.

Cynz.9437:

Weapon skills:

Backstab: damage is just too low for the requirements (melee, stealth, from behind). Problem is, other classes just have too much access to prot/invuls/blocks/passives/weakness that makes backstab absolutely useless.

Suggestion: damage increased by 30%, ignores protection and weakness if hit target from behind.

This needs to happen or something similar. Vault already out damage Backstab without the silly stealth and from behind requirements. Backstab needs a genuine buff ever since they nerfed it to the ground.

Heartseeker: dmg increased by 10%, applies cripple on target with more than 50% HP.

The nerf on this skill was unreasonable. Now it’s just a leap finisher because it’s actually a waste of initiative to use it otherwise. Buffing as suggested would make it useable again.

Headshot: additionally applies confusion and slow.

They need to also speed up the projectile travel time. It’s just too slow.

Black powder: grants protection while standing in it. Blinding powder nerf reverted, now ticks every sec.

Smokescale mob has a great Smoke Cloud ability. Black Powder should behave the same way.

Surprise shot (sb from stealth): dmg increased by 400%, applies cripple on top of immob.

It should be a stun to be honest since you need to be creative to even go in stealth using a short bow.

Cluster bomb: leaves fire field if not exploded.

That would be great.

Disabling shot: remove freaking backpeddaling animation that locks you down and gets you killed. Should also apply chill on top of cripple.

Daze would be nice too since the shot should be disabling.

Choking gas: revert to old functionality or nerf engi grenades. Because engis can throw grenades out of stealth w/o punishment.

Makes sense. I pick buffing Choking gas while punishing Engis.

All sword attacks: remove unnecessary aftercast.

Utilities:
Signet of shadows: should be stunbreak (see ele signet) and drop smoke field on activation.

Shadow refuge: should make immune to enemy applied reveal and grant stability/resistance if traited into SA. The amount of aoe flying around and dmg it does is so asburd that old counterplays (knockback, revealed) are simply not justified anymore.

Shadowstep should grant resistance on shadow return.

Signet of agility: increase radius.

Smoke screen applies 1 sec protection to allies running through it.

Scorpion wire: should get fixed just like magnet. Increase dmg :/

I agree on all these.

Heals:
Withdraw should remove slow.

+1

Hide in shadows removes revealed debuff applied by enemy.

Reduce casting time too.

Signet of malice: apply weakness to nearbly enemies upon activation.

And retain passive ability even on cooldown. Or buff Signet of Power to add this functionality.

Traits:

Last refuge removed, replaced by light step: you don’t activate enemy traps/marks etc. when in stealth.

Ah, nice one. I like it.

Bountiful theft: boons stolen up to 3, steals all stacks and gives all those stacks not just 1 to thief and teammates (e.g. if 25 might stacks are stolen from ele, then 25 might stacks are transfered to thief/teammates). Granting radius increased to capture point radius. Steal should priorizize might over regen/swiftness.

This is an old suggestion that is yet to be acknowledged.

Quick pockets: additionally reduces recharge on weapon swap.

Or more initiatives really, 3 is just too low. 50% initiative refill on swap is still reasonable.

Preparedness: removed from trickery trait line, made baseline. Replaced by trait: steal puts random enemy spell on CD (spells that don’t have CD, are put on 5 sec CD).

Agree on the baseline move and the random skill steal.

Dagger training: poison replaced with torment.

Makes sense.

Mug: can crit again.

Yeah removing the crit was a low blow.

Exposed weaknes: 20% instead of 10%; attacks from stealth are not affected by block/invul.

I like this.

Potent poison: increases condi dmg on poisoned targets.

Nice one.

Improvisation: healing seed shouldn’t have CD upon use. The recharge chance should be fixed and work only for equiped utilities.

F2 in general shouldn’t have any CD.

Executioner: apply extra weakness if target is above 50% (arguable under which condition)

Weakness and Slow.

Flawless strike: dmg increase 15%

I’d vote for a short duration Resistance on crits.

Practiced tolerance: revert plz :/

I actually like this, but it needs to be buffed. +10% from Precision is just too low. 15% would be better. The old functionality is redundant given on how Invigorating works.

Ankle shot: increases range of ranged weapons by 300 units.

Homing projectiles.

Invigorating precision: affects party members (healing for teammates 10%).

That would be nice.

Resilence of shadows: revert to 50% or change to 40% at least

Yes. I agree.

Shadows embrace: grants 1-2 sec resistance upon leaving stealth.

That would be nice.

In addition:
- remove Venom Aura
- reduce Venom’s CD to 15s
- I like the venom residue idea that leaves venomous field on the ground (i.e. Spider Venom will leave poison field on the ground when proc’ed)
- the same goes with triggered trap idea where it leaves a field (i.e. Needle trap will leave a caltrops-like field similar to Uncatchable.
- Ambush will call one thief for each enemy within the 300 range area.
- Shadow trap will function like a mesmer portal.
- Haste on 30s CD

Cannot tell if OP is serious or trolling with some of these :s

Backstab numbers are fine; just needs reliability, vault and bounding dodge need numbers plummeted because those two are way too overpowered. The rest of DD is terrible, and subsequently needs to be buffed to compensate. With 30% better backstab, I’d literally be dealing 30k stabs in WvW and well over 20k each in sPvP. I get it that it does low damage on a build not meant to stack damage, but it should be that way for any class. The thief’s innate durability and versatility inhibiting this are to blame more than anything.

HS doesn’t need more damage. No. There’s already enough HS spamming. I like keeping the thief’s damage behind skilled play. There’s no reason to increase it.

BP doesn’t need changes. Smokescale should be nerfed. There should be no reward to standing in a circle being immune to things or opponents trying to shut you down playing smart by CC’ing you between intervals to prevent the stealth.

Probably not wise to have bomb create a fire field. I see big issues with might stacking and this objectively reduces the viability of signet and trap-might builds.

Surprise shot doesn’t need damage buffs. At least not to that degree. You’re literally making surprise shot deal the same damage as current backstab. You’re approaching True Shot levels of base damage before the crazy modifiers we thieves are capable of. The cripple is a a fair idea.

Disabling Shot is… tricky. The frames need to stay to keep evasion builds vulnerable and punishing 3spam, but at the same time spam by the enemy can work against this. Not sure if I can agree or disagree. If you’re going to buff the disables, I’d keep it as is. Both seems excessive.

Interesting approach with light step. Not sure if awesome or would just make SA/stealth even stronger than it already is for a defensive line/style.

RoS needs to stay 25%. 67% damage reduction given a protection source (which is very common in groups) put thief as the objectively tankiest class in the game. With DD working so well on tankier equipment sets, I have to disagree.

SE does not need further buffing. SA is already extremely strong. Cleanses/condition resistance needs to come from other sources than just SA. Apparently this effect was overpowered in Acrobatics while revealed. Even I can see this being too abusable and put too big of a disparity between SA and other trait lines.

Flawless strike doesn’t need more damage. 15% is a passive Assassin’s Signet. Again, enough modifiers are stacked where this means a lot.

Your suggestions are too heavily-based on buffing stats and/or damage. The biggest problem the thief has right now is linearity in its trait lines and a lack of compensation in its utilities. We can’t offset low cleanses from traits through a good, low-cooldown cleanse without conversely sacrificing big effects elsewhere, should even such a skill exist. Consequently, too much damage comes out of burning utilities instead of using them as utility effects. Naturally high damage and modifiers makes this issue even worse.

Simply, the thief needs versatility within its builds, not just objectively improved versions of the current skills and traits it has.

I can get behind the rest, though.

I agree that thief need generally redesign in some aspects but they won’t do it, surely not untill next xpac comes out. Number tweaking is easier to implement though and would help core thief not to be complete garbage and useless at semi-decent skill level in pvp.

I personally find DrD just lackluster, not fitting thief (imo) at all and drd doesn’t solve any issue thief has from begin with. Even with elite spec the class is a joke when facing any decent team (thief class is still balanced around high dmg at costs of survival, or bit survival at costs of dmg while other classes have everything in one build, besides the so called +1 role is dead when you can’t do any meaningful dmg to anyone anymore and everyone has good moblity).

It is extremely frustrating and unrewarding to play it atm. I wish devs would at least try this class out in pvp vs decent teams. One can just dream -_-

Cynz.9437:

It is extremely frustrating and unrewarding to play it atm. I wish devs would at least try this class out in pvp vs anyone that is not a dummy . One can just dream -_-

fixed for you

Inflitrator’s return change should be reverted (not have cast anymore). Given the current CC and AoE wars there is no reason to have cast time on it anymore.

I also vote Finishing Blow to ignore Invulnerability (not evade or block) and blind, you can still stomp when blinded (yes I am aware stomping is not an attack, it is an action, I don’t care.) Maybe even make the first hit a 1s stun instead of a 2s daze. Emphasis on ignoring invuln since if your target goes down right as it is about to hit, the natural invulnerability negates it.

With the ferocity patch 2 years ago (I have been a noob back then, so I can’t really remember how things were before the patch) they lowered the overall damage for everyone. Thief has been effected worse as far as I remember, maybe because of all the critical traits which were “double nerfed”.
So, how about nerfing the overall damage once again but leaving thief partly out of it? That shouldn’t be too hard.
If they don’t do it then I don’t see that much hope for the whole game, to be honest. So, lets see what new ideas the tournament brings.

Jana.6831:

With the ferocity patch 2 years ago (I have been a noob back then, so I can’t really remember how things were before the patch) they lowered the overall damage for everyone. Thief has been effected worse as far as I remember, maybe because of all the critical traits which were “double nerfed”.
So, how about nerfing the overall damage once again but leaving thief partly out of it? That shouldn’t be too hard.
If they don’t do it then I don’t see that much hope for the whole game, to be honest. So, lets see what new ideas the tournament brings.

There is 0 thieves in tourney so far lol. I mean devs put so much thought and effort into thief cvlass that no team is interested in bringing thief to tournament.

my own request.
Pistol Pistol. skill #3. unload. increase range to 1050. thats all.

pistol skills to 1050.

Cynz.9437:

There is 0 thieves in tourney so far lol. I mean devs put so much thought and effort into thief cvlass that no team is interested in bringing thief to tournament.

Yeah – I just hope they realize that the dmg/tankiness calculations and passive skills are completely off.
And well, I do hope they miss thieves.

Jana.6831:

Cynz.9437:

There is 0 thieves in tourney so far lol. I mean devs put so much thought and effort into thief cvlass that no team is interested in bringing thief to tournament.

Yeah – I just hope they realize that the dmg/tankiness calculations and passive skills are completely off.
And well, I do hope they miss thieves.

Sadly, I really doubt that since Revenant is taking over the Thief’s one and only job.

After I lagged and lost against an opponent just now (not a single case), I decided: This game is nice for casual play – everything else is broken.

DeceiverX.8361:

Cannot tell if OP is serious or trolling with some of these :s

Backstab numbers are fine; just needs reliability, vault and bounding dodge need numbers plummeted because those two are way too overpowered. The rest of DD is terrible, and subsequently needs to be buffed to compensate. With 30% better backstab, I’d literally be dealing 30k stabs in WvW and well over 20k each in sPvP. I get it that it does low damage on a build not meant to stack damage, but it should be that way for any class. The thief’s innate durability and versatility inhibiting this are to blame more than anything.

130%=20k
100%=15,3
I want to see this in logs mate because even in full zerk on spvp with squishy target and some vuln/might I doubt that you can hit 12+

Whoa!

How much do I pay to unlock these if these changes are implemented?