Guild Wars 2

Found this in the thiefs forum http://imgur.com/lmZgWLo the thread in the theifs forum is here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Revealed-Debuff-to-be-Reverted-in-PvE-and-WvW/first#post1855346

This is one of the reasons I don’t do wvw. If anything, that gamemode needs more of the ruleset from pvp. But I guess they thought that thieves had a hard time in wvw… lol!

For me WvW is the only interesting part of the game, sadly the class I enjoy just is not up to par. I have far more luck escaping and or killing on my theif than with the ranger.

No one should be Surprised by this because we have no devs. who are Devoted to the Ranger class and who are not in the best interest for this class at all.

They’re Devotion will always be for the elitists class and they will do anything to make those classes much Granderous above us; no matter how much they try to deny it.

It’s another reason to tell us the ranger class ; that we will always be stuck where we are and that we are ok where we are.

It’s quite Obvious, it is best is to abandon the class altogether and join the elitists class, cause they will Always be on their top list for fixes and improvements.

The change did nothing to stop some of the abuse of stealth in PvP in the first place….However reverting it back without removing the chain stealth non sense is just silly….It also proves how inept the balance team is pvp.

You’re Rangers correct? I thought you knew how much the word of Jon Peters is worth…

Zorby.8236:

You’re Rangers correct? I thought you knew how much the word of Jon Peters is worth…

This is true, I wouldnt trust him as far as I could throw him. Although I wouldnt mind the chance! To er trust him that is yea thats it.

Burnfall.9573:

No one should be Surprised by this because we have no devs. who are Devoted to the Ranger class and who are not in the best interest for this class at all.

They’re Devotion will always be for the elitists class and they will do anything to make those classes much Granderous above us; no matter how much they try to deny it.

Absolutely True.
And Million Thanks to Rangers which agree that we are ok/fine/good/even OP.
Which make the devs focus more on other classes instead.

GJ for those Rangers. Cause thanks to you, Rangers will always in this state. Bravo!!

Thank God i’ve been running loads s/tPvp with my Mes & Thief since Feb and it open my eyes on how weak Rangers are, compared to others. Fact.

If this is not an example as to why we need a test server with proposed changes posted in advance for testing, I don’t know what is. Whatever internal testing is done is obviously inadequate to have this kind of flip flop in less than a month. Why not let the community test it instead?

This is going to be crap for the ranger again. QZ is nerfed so you can’t even burst down most thieves with a rapid fire combo and you’re reverting the stealth back. Oh right i’m suppose to run traps all the time right? Great, we’re back to one build again.

mes and thief are really strong in s/tPvP.
I didnt try out the thief that much but the mes got a LOT of viable builds for s/tPvP. compared to other classes, of course. which is good, I guess. It would be better if that could be true for all classes, not just one or two.

when I see an ele in sPvP, i usually think: d/d? k, 30 in water, probably a bit in arcane, classic
when I see an engineer, i usually think: p/p? condition HGH build. if there are turrets, he’s trying a bunker build.
when I see a ranger, i usually think: BM or trapper, lets see…
and so on.

and usually Im right. There are exceptions, of course. But it would be really, really nice if there were more exceptions than quasi-rules.

Tad confusing. I don’t recall many complaints about Thieves in tPvP. I don’t recall any complaints saying Thieves were OP in PvE. I do recall hundreds of complaints about Thieves in WvW.

Anet confuses me at times.

ROFL, a moderator moved this to the Thief forums? The OP was nothing more than a link to a thread already existing in the Thief forum!

>Posts link to thread in Thief forum
>Gets moved to Thief forum

Nothing else to it, either.

/facepalm

I don’t understand it at all – thieves aren’t very good in sPvP because a hit & run class sucks at standing in circles.

They excel in WvW because of all their escape options and ability to pick fights + higher burst available through equipment.

Shouldn’t they just make the revealed debuff 4s in WvW and revert it in sPvP + PvE?

They excel at stomping roamers and bads in WvW, in actual wvw battles (aka zerg battles and the sort of battles the zones were designed for) they don’t bring much

Dasorine.1964:

They excel at stomping roamers and bads in WvW, in actual wvw battles (aka zerg battles) they don’t bring much

In WvW battles a 4s vs 3s revealed debuff does nothing. The nerf was aimed at small scale battles which thieves dominate in.

If this is true… Then it is not a buff since we had this in the first place.

This does not appear to be truth since the revealed nerf came to be because of ppl crying about thieves in wvwvw were they would die before being able to even see him. For this reason it doesn’t make any sense at all to revert this in pve and wvwvw and leave it at 4s in spvp were ppl NEVER complaint about permanent stealth….

which the 4s vs 3s didnt really do much for either other than ruin a lot of builds in small to medium ways that has a knock on effect of being quite a potent nerf.

Even in small scale battles it really depends on players either side as to whether a thief dominates, you might get a situation like in the many videos of a thief dropping in on a small group of uplevels that are roaming trying to do jumping puzzles or some PvE stuff or you can get small groups holding camps and such that bring a CC or two to stop people that just instant-gib the thief while they are invisible.

And volrath, to be fair hotjoin spvp people have been complaining about stealth as much as WvW roamers have.

Why they are keeping the change in sPvP and not anywhere else, well it has a bigger effect on PvE thieves than any other thieves and maybe thieves are supposed to be low tier spvp’ers only (not that its the 4s revealed keeping them there but meh)

Why the kitten do people complain about thieves perma stealthing? If a thief is doing this in a battle they ain’t doing kitten in terms of damage.

Ulysses.4765:

Why the kitten do people complain about thieves perma stealthing? If a thief is doing this in a battle they ain’t doing kitten in terms of damage.

Not to mention while they are doing the 1.5 coefficient hit every 4 seconds they are totally vulnerable to any damage that happens to come their way, which if you know when and how they are going to restealth is quite easy to insure there is a lot of.

(1) This isn’t a buff, but rather a revert to what already existed.

(2) Overall, it’s a nerf, since other Thief abilities and mechanics are being hit.

(3) I’ve fought MANY thieves, and I honestly don’t see what the problem is. The vast majority of them cause no issue. For one to deal significant damage, they have to be in your face and be built Beserker’s … hit them once or twice and they die. Ranged Thief? Nearly useless. Stealth Thief? Just as useless … you shouldn’t die to one unless you suck at the game.

Harsh, but true.

Let’s reflect on what a Stealth Thief is, alright? They rely on a mechanic that they can only use once every 4 seconds due to Revealed to get a hit that only dose 50% more damage than their regular damage … do the math, and the damage LOST due to this is hilarious. Any time they are in stealth or trying to get in stealth or trying to properly maneuver is damage wasted.

Oh, and don’t forget the fact they can get damaged REGARDLESS of their visible status. Do you know the kind of people that don’t get killed by thieves? The kind of people that understand what an AOE is … and if you’re character is low on those, spamming your 1 skill is fantastic. Thieves (specifically Stealth builds) are really easy to predict … they all do the same thing because they HAVE to do the same thing. Use that to your advantage.

There are only THREE instances where a thief can kill me:
(1) They were part of a zerg … unless you’re a Guardian, you’ll die in nearly any zerg.
(2) I got caught off guard or already low on HP from a just finished fight.
(3) They are simply just better than me. There ARE players out there better than yourself … you have to accept that.

Moral of the story:
Stop kittening about every class and how everyone is OP … learn to counter the enemy and accept the fact that you WILL die eventually and that there ARE players better than you. Get over yourselves.

I wish they would leave it as 4sec. 4 sec is fine.

I wish they would lessen spike damage a tad.

I play a Thief.

mmmmmm… tears

ski.4927:

I wish they would leave it as 4sec. 4 sec is fine.

I wish they would lessen spike damage a tad.

I play a Thief.

mmmmmm… tears

And what does 4s change instead of 3s? Other than making P/D damage even worse.

They need to nerf Mug, honestly (tone it down or move it to master/grandmaster). The revealed debuff being reverted is fine.

Humorless.1573:

ski.4927:

I wish they would leave it as 4sec. 4 sec is fine.

I wish they would lessen spike damage a tad.

I play a Thief.

mmmmmm… tears

And what does 4s change instead of 3s? Other than making P/D damage even worse.

It makes thieves cry.
Thieves crying makes me happy.

I main a thief.

Humorless.1573:

ski.4927:

I wish they would leave it as 4sec. 4 sec is fine.

I wish they would lessen spike damage a tad.

I play a Thief.

mmmmmm… tears

And what does 4s change instead of 3s? Other than making P/D damage even worse.

It made the whole rotation feel unwieldy. Before the CnD/invis rotation flowed perfectly with a full aa rotation or 3 pistol shots. Now it’s a full aa rotation… and a few more hits. Really takes you out of your element and since the 1st few hits (the ones that it forced you to recast) do almost do damage.

So the combo went from weak, medium, strong, medium, strong repeat. Essentially 3 good hits at the end of every rotation (3rd auto with poison, cnd, back stab)

to

weak medium strong, medium, strong, weak wait OR weak medium, medium, strong
(it’s do double strike again for crap damage and wait a half sec for cnd and get better positioning or do double strike again for crap damage then wild strike for medium but lose out on a 1/4s between every cnd cast)

Doesn’t sound like much but all those extra out of place steps really kills our dps (by 15-20% when everything is landing) and just very clumsy feeling. It also makes it so our poison upkeep time changes from 80% to about 40% if you’re going for max dps.

randomfightfan.4091:

Humorless.1573:

ski.4927:

I wish they would leave it as 4sec. 4 sec is fine.

I wish they would lessen spike damage a tad.

I play a Thief.

mmmmmm… tears

And what does 4s change instead of 3s? Other than making P/D damage even worse.

It made the whole rotation feel unwieldy. Before the CnD/invis rotation flowed perfectly with a full aa rotation or 3 pistol shots. Now it’s a full aa rotation… and a few more hits. Really takes you out of your element and since the 1st few hits (the ones that it forced you to recast) do almost do damage.

So the combo went from weak, medium, strong, medium, strong repeat. Essentially 3 good hits at the end of every rotation (3rd auto with poison, cnd, back stab)

to

weak medium strong, medium, strong, weak wait OR weak medium, medium, strong
(it’s do double strike again for crap damage and wait a half sec for cnd and get better positioning or do double strike again for crap damage then wild strike for medium but lose out on a 1/4s between every cnd cast)

Doesn’t sound like much but all those extra out of place steps really kills our dps (by 15-20% when everything is landing) and just very clumsy feeling. It also makes it so our poison upkeep time changes from 80% to about 40% if you’re going for max dps.

Yeah but in terms of pvp? Where autoattacking isn’t as big of a deal. Just makes timing it slightly more annoying. That 1 extra second isn’t going to get you killed in most cases. Most builds don’t do a whole lot less damage either. Just p/d cause it can’t keep up a decent amount of stacks.

^
which is why the 1 second revealed is a problem in PVE. I have been a loud voice about the pve case obv but I have never once said it was a problem in pvp. It isn’t a BIG problem in pvp, but it does still screw with the player’s internal counting, not with the entire feel of the rotation. Still sucks, just not as bad.

Another thing I forgot to mention is due to 4s revealed instead of 3, you can now only get 1 invis attack off from blinding powder instead of the previous 2 and only 2 invis attacks from smoke screen instead of a possible 3. Things like that are a problem. Simple fix would be to increase the duration of both but then that might imbalance the skill.

Lastly, I’m fine with it being 3s in wvw and 4 in pvp b/c in wvw you have 50 people that are able to jump on and insta the thief. In pvp, you have, at best, 8 (5 in tourney).

randomfightfan.4091:

Humorless.1573:

ski.4927:

I wish they would leave it as 4sec. 4 sec is fine.

I wish they would lessen spike damage a tad.

I play a Thief.

mmmmmm… tears

And what does 4s change instead of 3s? Other than making P/D damage even worse.

It made the whole rotation feel unwieldy. Before the CnD/invis rotation flowed perfectly with a full aa rotation or 3 pistol shots. Now it’s a full aa rotation… and a few more hits. Really takes you out of your element and since the 1st few hits (the ones that it forced you to recast) do almost do damage.

So the combo went from weak, medium, strong, medium, strong repeat. Essentially 3 good hits at the end of every rotation (3rd auto with poison, cnd, back stab)

to

weak medium strong, medium, strong, weak wait OR weak medium, medium, strong
(it’s do double strike again for crap damage and wait a half sec for cnd and get better positioning or do double strike again for crap damage then wild strike for medium but lose out on a 1/4s between every cnd cast)

Doesn’t sound like much but all those extra out of place steps really kills our dps (by 15-20% when everything is landing) and just very clumsy feeling. It also makes it so our poison upkeep time changes from 80% to about 40% if you’re going for max dps.

If you’re rocking dual daggers you should be handling revealed as such:
Backstab → DS → WS → LS → DS → WS → CnD → Backstab → DS → ad nauseum

It’s a goofy rhythm, audibly, but once you commit it to muscle memory you’re set.
I really hope this rumor pans out to be legit and not just a very cruel hoax

Allow me to apologize to all you PvE thieves. I always get caught up in these discussions.

Let me state, for the record….I only play in WvW. I don’t PvE, and therefore do not care about skill rotations.

I agree…thief PvE is painful in dungeons at time.

With that said…allow me to ammend my initial statement…

PvPing thief tears make me happy.

ski.4927:

Allow me to apologize to all you PvE thieves. I always get caught up in these discussions.

Let me state, for the record….I only play in WvW. I don’t PvE, and therefore do not care about skill rotations.

I agree…thief PvE is painful in dungeons at time.

With that said…allow me to ammend my initial statement…

PvPing thief tears make me happy.

That’s just the optimal rotation (assuming the impossible 100% time-on-target) for maximum “balanced build” dps with D/D.

Imo, 4s Revealed was negated by going /P. BP eff-tee-dubs.

Hahahahaha. Sorry, I read this thread title and all I could think was “Hah, reverting a nerf is what passes for buffing thieves these days.”

negating a nerf is like a buff – regardless of the name of the class. no need to get hysterical?

Let me understand, if I see, in WvW, an element ranger and a warrior i immediately kill the ranger because they are envious. Right? XD

Falassion.8031:

Let me understand, if I see, in WvW, an element ranger and a warrior i immediately kill the ranger because they are envious. Right? XD

I kill the ranger first b/c their cat pee’d on my rug… I leave the cat alone though. So cute