So I run either D/P or S/D in pvp, pretty standard builds most of the time. Occasionally I’ll mess around with stuff in hotjoin. I have no idea how to counter some mesmers. Even as S/D where I have amazing access to evades, I mess up one time and I literally implode.
It’s basically a choice between two deaths, either I go D/P and hope mesmers I encounter are condi since I can at least stealth away most of their damage however I get destroyed by power mesmer (which is most of them) since I don’t have enough blind/evade to avoid their burst before I can kill them. Or I run S/D and have a better chance to avoid power burst but get wrecked by condition mesmer. Sword 2 can only clear one at a time and when you have high stacks of multiple condis ticking on you, you just melt as a thief even in marauders.
It’s at the point where I don’t even try fighting mesmers at all. I don’t mind if a fight is tough. I am always willing to learn and get better. But there is little to no room to learn when a fight takes < 1 second.
Most of the time when I play thief in spvp I get undefended points, help rez people, help burst down low targets, stay mobile, things thiefs are supposed to do. I will go for a 1v1 on a node if I think I can get it, since most of the time I know I can at least disengage and go to another node. However I am at my wits end on my thief where mesmers are concerned. Please halp =(
Thieves are at a disadvantage vs most other Classes, you can work around that for help with conditions cleanse use the Sigil of Generosity, I can’t recall if it is in Spvp though.
This is why Shortbow should be F3.
I love running D/P and S/D at the same time!
Sadly, mobility is also vital to survive.
Mesmers are beyond Overpowered right now and getting even more so with the arrival of chronomancer. Not sure what’s to be done about them.. But thief is underpowered so fighting a Mesmer as a thief is just as easy as soloing Triple trouble…. All joking aside .. Anet please fix Mesmer. They need a nerd like all hell.
Don’t 1v1 anyone. Thief is just not designed for that. Thieves are supposed to cap empty points and join 2v1 ocasionally, be basically a ranger pet. Devs apprently think it is fair and fun design~
As far as mesmers go, you have rely on them being really stupid. Play with sound, you can hear them stealth up at least. Try to time dodge to avoid their instagib burst w/o tell (cringe); if you manage to do it, stealth up and wait as long as possible – if mesmer is dumb he will spam half of his CDs for nothing (most mesmers do because they get carried by their class atm and most of them are highly predictable). Then you can engage on them, keep blinds up. Landing steal is crucial (you need improv so you get double plasma) as plasma gives protection, stab and aegis which helps a lot. If you casn interrupt heal and mantra recast (althrough if mesmer is not totaly stupid, he will do it in stealth).
I can kill most mesmers on standard dp/sa with vamp or pack runes + double gen sigils but as i said, the class is total faceroll atm and most mesmers i face are just too spoiled and make really stupid mistake (like using blurred frenzy while i am literary standing in front of them just outside of the range and do absolutely nothing zzzzz, trying to set up immob -> shatter while i have aegis on /facepalm, spamming dazes when i have stab on……).
This is no offense vs mesmer players, vs good mes i have 0 chance. But what i said above IS reality.
(edited by Cynz.9437)
So I run either D/P or S/D in pvp, pretty standard builds most of the time. Occasionally I’ll mess around with stuff in hotjoin. I have no idea how to counter some mesmers. Even as S/D where I have amazing access to evades, I mess up one time and I literally implode.
It’s basically a choice between two deaths, either I go D/P and hope mesmers I encounter are condi since I can at least stealth away most of their damage however I get destroyed by power mesmer (which is most of them) since I don’t have enough blind/evade to avoid their burst before I can kill them. Or I run S/D and have a better chance to avoid power burst but get wrecked by condition mesmer. Sword 2 can only clear one at a time and when you have high stacks of multiple condis ticking on you, you just melt as a thief even in marauders.
It’s at the point where I don’t even try fighting mesmers at all. I don’t mind if a fight is tough. I am always willing to learn and get better. But there is little to no room to learn when a fight takes < 1 second.
Most of the time when I play thief in spvp I get undefended points, help rez people, help burst down low targets, stay mobile, things thiefs are supposed to do. I will go for a 1v1 on a node if I think I can get it, since most of the time I know I can at least disengage and go to another node. However I am at my wits end on my thief where mesmers are concerned. Please halp =(
Post your build. We can start from there.
This thread… Yes, you’re not suppose to 1v1 in general, but power mesmer is actually the only match-up you can consistently win. Don’t duel against condi mesmers. They rely on stealth, so if you catch one on far point, you can try to lure them into thinking you’re dueling, get a sneaky decap when they stealth and get out.
Power mesmers have a lot of active defenses, so you’ll have to play a little mind game before getting the kill. Basically, you will try to bait out their Blink, Decoy and Distorsion.
It was trickier before the PU nerf, but on DP, you can now out-stealth them. So if they stealth, try to stealth as well. Don’t forget to increase the distance between you and the mesmer when they stealth. For example, go HS in the opposite direction, then 5->2. A lot of bad thieves will try to just 5->2 close to the stealthed mesmer, who can then use Diversion while they stand helpless in their smoke field.
On SD, it’s even easier. If they stealth, use Cloak and Dagger on a clone to wait out. Find a spot out of LoS for your Infiltrator’s Strike. This skill is deadly against mesmers, because most them run no condi cleanse, making them extremely vulnerable to immobilisation.
Play safe. Don’t try to HS them to death when they’re low. Use your Steal wisely: a lot of their skills have long and telegraphed animations. Good skills to interrupt: Mirror Blade (although they mostly cast this from stealth), iZerker, Sword#3. Don’t random Steal (but that’s true of every match-up), because the skill you steal is extremly strong. Only use it when you are in stealth, or have enough space between you and the mesmer.
Good luck!
edit: one last thing. A lot of mesmers double-tap their sword#3 skill. So if you see a sword clone appearing behind you, dodge immediately!
(edited by Sorel.4870)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqYVnMJClOhFNBONB8PhDYiyHGxxIy7hYYH0JQAUAA-TJxCABAcKAwb/hjfCAaVGAA
I’ve been killing Mesmers, Engis, Warriors, Fellow thieves, some weird Eles, and burn guards. Can’t touch Necros or Rangers because “oh my skillful, automatic, zero active play condi clear” (for rangers) and because necros are just condi gods.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqYVnMJClOhFNBONB8PhDYiyHGxxIy7hYYH0JQAUAA-TJxCABAcKAwb/hjfCAaVGAA
I’ve been killing Mesmers, Engis, Warriors, Fellow thieves, some weird Eles, and burn guards. Can’t touch Necros or Rangers because “oh my skillful, automatic, zero active play condi clear” (for rangers) and because necros are just condi gods.
If using all those venoms why not trait Leeching over hidden thief? You will get a whole pile of healing and your attacks will do more raw damage.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqYVnMJClOhFNBONB8PhDYiyHGxxIy7hYYH0JQAUAA-TJxCABAcKAwb/hjfCAaVGAA
I’ve been killing Mesmers, Engis, Warriors, Fellow thieves, some weird Eles, and burn guards. Can’t touch Necros or Rangers because “oh my skillful, automatic, zero active play condi clear” (for rangers) and because necros are just condi gods.
Just one question, why Trickster?
I don’t see any Tricks on you Utilities, is there any other reason to use it?
I don’t take venom traits because I need healing (seriously, Thief has no defense >.<) and thats why I take the double trick because 36 (or 48?) is roughly close to 40 second venom cooldown. My venoms come up, so does my quickness. And a dead guy.
I don’t take venom traits because I need healing (seriously, Thief has no defense >.<) and thats why I take the double trick because 36 (or 48?) is roughly close to 40 second venom cooldown. My venoms come up, so does my quickness. And a dead guy.
I do not understand your response. Leeching venoms IS healing. Why did you take hidden thief over that with all those venoms?
I am not talking Venmous aura. By my calculation you are giving up 6825 in heals by taking hidden thief over leeching venoms and along with this 8043 more damage from those venoms in order to get that hide on steal.
This extra helaing will help you heal past a lot of those conditins those necros throw on you and the damage will take a good chunk out of rangers hps.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
I use Shortbow a lot more against Mesmers wether I play S/D or D/P.
I prefer the S/D approach as #4 (dancing dagger) is also quite good against Mesmers and it allows me to stealth of clones with #5 (cloak and dagger, beware you don’t hit their Scepter #2 clone though, that thing kills you).
Try to outstealth them, interrupt their Healing and Elite and don’t get tunnel vision. You can use the clones as resources just as much as the mesmer can, really. With the bounce on SB #1 and S/D #4, you can hit the mesmer if they’re stealthed etc.
Just approach the fight with a tactical mindset rather than an aggressive one.
That said, it’s an uphill fight though. Mesmer’s are really kitten strong at the moment while we’re left standing in the cold.
As a mesmer who has died countless times to a thief, I can tell you, ya’ll have many tools to counter our skills. D/P though is the most troublesome when I’m running condi’s but in my power build, ya’ll only need to make 1 mistake and it’s over. I love dueling thieves though… They always know how to make me hurt if I screw up my timing.
I don’t take venom traits because I need healing (seriously, Thief has no defense >.<) and thats why I take the double trick because 36 (or 48?) is roughly close to 40 second venom cooldown. My venoms come up, so does my quickness. And a dead guy.
I do not understand your response. Leeching venoms IS healing. Why did you take hidden thief over that with all those venoms?
I am not talking Venmous aura. By my calculation you are giving up 6825 in heals by taking hidden thief over leeching venoms and along with this 8043 more damage from those venoms in order to get that hide on steal.
This extra helaing will help you heal past a lot of those conditins those necros throw on you and the damage will take a good chunk out of rangers hps.
Whenever I steal to a guy, I get stealth+confusion+initiative+damage+heal+poison+weakness. I do not want to give up stealth in this combo because from this combo, I get to add 5 bleeds. If they haven’t played against me before, they will also be taking 2 more torment. So this guy just got condi loaded without any venoms (and this is where people go, oh that’s it? ok lemme clear it), then I turn on the venoms and bola them once or twice then shadow strike away (btw, add burning to this sucker please or increase torment stacks or something) and usually that kills those that bring condi clear. So, stealth lets me bait cleanses otherwise I gotta drop 5 initiative+steal to get the cleanse anyway. I’d rather gain a duel advantage over some miscellaneous damage and healing.
I could explain it to you in game if you want, just add me and send an in-game mail. =) I’d be more than happy to show you. I only have trouble on power thieves (occasionally, they gotta be godlike) but with hide on steal anyway I can just stall a little bit and let them proc confusion.
tl;dr- Stealth is a far greater advantage than some extra damage and healing, considering that I already have enough of both to assassinate and adding more would mean front loading my burst even more as opposed to properly dueling. And by properly dueling, I won a 1v2 today against a Rampage Warrior and PU condi mesmer. All in all, I’m proud of my build.
Oh and op, sorry for derailing. But, condis destroy revenants and mesmers. So if you want to take them out specifically, just go condi.
Mesmers are beyond Overpowered right now and getting even more so with the arrival of chronomancer. Not sure what’s to be done about them.. But thief is underpowered so fighting a Mesmer as a thief is just as easy as soloing Triple trouble…. All joking aside .. Anet please fix Mesmer. They need a nerd like all hell.
Mesmer is not overpowered, annoying, yes but not overpowered, most classes are able to kill Mesmers without any problems, Mesmers can nuke down Thieves, pretty hard but that’s mainly due to the Thieves unpowered design currently. Hell when Thieves were viable before June 23rd Mesmer couldn’t kill Thieves unless the Thief was afk.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqYVnMJClOhFNBONB8PhDYiyHGxxIy7hYYH0JQAUAA-TJxCABAcKAwb/hjfCAaVGAA
I’ve been killing Mesmers, Engis, Warriors, Fellow thieves, some weird Eles, and burn guards. Can’t touch Necros or Rangers because “oh my skillful, automatic, zero active play condi clear” (for rangers) and because necros are just condi gods.
No offense but that is miserable thief is second to last in condition damage. There is still no explanation on why CiS is competing with SRej just that 1 change broke OH dagger and they are fine with it. Anything works in WvW and PvE.
Mesmers are beyond Overpowered right now and getting even more so with the arrival of chronomancer. Not sure what’s to be done about them.. But thief is underpowered so fighting a Mesmer as a thief is just as easy as soloing Triple trouble…. All joking aside .. Anet please fix Mesmer. They need a nerd like all hell.
Mesmer is not overpowered, annoying, yes but not overpowered, most classes are able to kill Mesmers without any problems, Mesmers can nuke down Thieves, pretty hard but that’s mainly due to the Thieves unpowered design currently. Hell when Thieves were viable before June 23rd Mesmer couldn’t kill Thieves unless the Thief was afk.
This is an interesting point. Now that you mention it I can’t figure out if it’s that mesmers are outrageously overpowered in the new system, or if it really is just that thief is the red-headed stepchild.
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