Guild Wars 2

The average damage I get with mug is 3-6k instant. That seems very strong to me. I recently decided to try it out earlier; and even though I lack runes of the scholar (+10% damage, 5 ascended pieces, and 25 bloodlust sigils, I managed to pull some high numbers) I even had a 13.4k mug screenshot but lost it when I formatted my computer.

I recently read a mug compilation suggestion thread that posted some great ideas about how they can buff our mug since it cannot crit no more; some great ideas were posted. None the less; here are just two pictures.

EDIT: I’m sure if someone uses a burst build w/ scholar runes, 25 bloodlust sigils, proper damage food, a 15k+ steal can be achieved.

Issues.5789:

misedit

failedit

Don’t know if you watch SoTG when it comes out every month, but this month’s came with an announcement that Mug will no longer be able to crit. Also, there will be a lifesteal component added to it. The devs said it would heal you for about 2k + some minor Healing Power multiplier.

Say bye to 13k Mug crits.

Edit: I now realize why you wrote “was” in the title… don’t I feel like a child xP

Pentalic.5409:

Don’t know if you watch SoTG when it comes out every month, but this month’s came with an announcement that Mug will no longer be able to crit. Also, there will be a lifesteal component added to it. The devs said it would heal you for about 2k + some minor Healing Power multiplier.

Say bye to 13k Mug crits.

Please read the title.. that’s the whole point of this thread. To prove that it was overpowered and the ability for it to not crit anymore makes sense. I just wish that they add other components to steal.
EDIT: Well ya I see you got it now lol

First this is WvW…

Second, I’m not sure mug WvW crits against lvl20 casuals running around with lvl10 white and blue gearis relevant when it comes to balance.

muscarine.5136:

First this is WvW…

Second, I’m not sure mug WvW crits against lvl20 casuals running around with lvl10 white and blue gearis relevant when it comes to balance.

Both of those crits were done on level 80’s. The first one was a warrior, and the second was a engineer. Nice try.

muscarine.5136:

First this is WvW…

Second, I’m not sure mug WvW crits against lvl20 casuals running around with lvl10 white and blue gearis relevant when it comes to balance.

yes is WvWvW
Op did not used supperior sharpening stone and had 4 stacks of bloodlust, wich could increase damage with 10-20% ?

I rest my case – i’m a glass canon thief myself wearing full berzerker build and never got hit that hard by mug in WvW.

If it’s not the level it’s the gear.

I don’t care about mug nerf, as a matter of fact i believe it’s the right move considering it comes along with a slight bunker nerf (except for BM rangers…)

Just saying screenshots like this are irrelevant.

And pvp shouldn’t be balanced around WvW.

confirmation bias at its finest

Gotta love how people will do anything to argue a moot point xD
OP, I like your 14k backstab. Nice job pulling that one off

muscarine.5136:

I rest my case – i’m a glass canon thief myself wearing full berzerker build and never got hit that hard by mug in WvW.

If it’s not the level it’s the gear.

I don’t care about mug nerf, as a matter of fact i believe it’s the right move considering it comes along with a slight bunker nerf (except for BM rangers…)

Just saying screenshots like this are irrelevant.

Your whole post is irrelevant.. That warrior hit me for 9k with eviscerate. So he obviously had to be geared. The engineer I just instagibbed with steal (so I wouldn’t know I to be honest)

In the first screen you were fighting an up leveled player, so that’s irrelevant. I guess that applies to the second too.

I have never seen, felt or dealt any crits even close to that with Mug on a lvl 80 player. Never. But I agree on the change the devs have done. It suits my style too and it makes it less dangerous for burst builds. For me it’s perfect becausee I usually use Steal in the middle of a fight, and now I’ll get a heal from it too

Issues.5789:

muscarine.5136:

I rest my case – i’m a glass canon thief myself wearing full berzerker build and never got hit that hard by mug in WvW.

If it’s not the level it’s the gear.

I don’t care about mug nerf, as a matter of fact i believe it’s the right move considering it comes along with a slight bunker nerf (except for BM rangers…)

Just saying screenshots like this are irrelevant.

Your whole post is irrelevant.. That warrior hit me for 9k with eviscerate. So he obviously had to be geared. The engineer I just instagibbed with steal (so I wouldn’t know I to be honest)

You have no idea.
9k crit with eviscerate on a WvW glass canon thief is actually low.

muscarine.5136:

Issues.5789:

muscarine.5136:

I rest my case – i’m a glass canon thief myself wearing full berzerker build and never got hit that hard by mug in WvW.

If it’s not the level it’s the gear.

I don’t care about mug nerf, as a matter of fact i believe it’s the right move considering it comes along with a slight bunker nerf (except for BM rangers…)

Just saying screenshots like this are irrelevant.

Your whole post is irrelevant.. That warrior hit me for 9k with eviscerate. So he obviously had to be geared. The engineer I just instagibbed with steal (so I wouldn’t know I to be honest)

You have no idea.
9k crit with eviscerate on a WvW glass canon thief is actually low.

I also have a level 80 berserker warrior. :S But sure, you’re right Mug is highly underpowered.

@Pentalic.5409 – I lost so many pictures when I formatted; but I’m sure I managed a 19k backstab on a level 80 ranger lol.

So ?
You’re still clueless.

Here’s an spvp screenshot for your reference.

Moving on ~

muscarine.5136:

So ?
You’re still clueless.

Moving on ~

Thanks for the information and pictures you’ve provided. Don’t take your anger out on me because you can’t backstab combo anymore lol.

I don’t know whats more sad, the fact that you got killed by eviscerate or that you got killed by eviscerate.. This is my last reply to you as obviously you’re upset you can’t play thief anymore.

I’m actually one of the only thieves out there running p/p, but hey you don’t need my biography do you.

Just gave you a basic advice, no anger there, if you can’t understand why you’re giing empty feedback with such a thread i can’t help you.

edit >Yea, ok, hopeless… Moving on.

Issues.5789:

@Pentalic.5409 – I lost so many pictures when I formatted; but I’m sure I managed a 19k backstab on a level 80 ranger lol.

Back when I ran around WvW in full zerker, 25 stacks of Bloodlust and food I managed a 26k crit on an upleveled player. I know there’s a huge difference in WvW and sPvP just like there’s a difference between upleveled players and lvl 80’s, but that’s the highest single hit on a player that I’ve ever seen xD
I still remember it like it was yesterday…. /driftsoff

Pentalic.5409:

Issues.5789:

@Pentalic.5409 – I lost so many pictures when I formatted; but I’m sure I managed a 19k backstab on a level 80 ranger lol.

Back when I ran around WvW in full zerker, 25 stacks of Bloodlust and food I managed a 26k crit on an upleveled player. I know there’s a huge difference in WvW and sPvP just like there’s a difference between upleveled players and lvl 80’s, but that’s the highest single hit on a player that I’ve ever seen xD
I still remember it like it was yesterday…. /driftsoff

Wow.. that’s insane. I don’t even know what to say lol. The highest damage I did was on my warrior, It was an upleveled necro I think that was downed. my 100b hit him for a total of 36k lol, but kitten . 26k backstab is nuts lol

Don’t warriors take more damage when they pop adrenaline or something like that? I’m a warrior noob, but I seem to recall that enrage causes more damage to the warrior. Correct me if/I am wrong.

Edit: Either the warrior or engineer or both could have been in rares, greens or whathave you. I’m not defending mug or saying the nerf is deserved. Both could’ve been glass cannons in crap gear, who knows.
I run ~3K armor on my thief, and I can’t ever recall seeing a mug for more than 3-5K. Once in a while. I’ll see 6 or 7K back stabs but typically right around 4-5K

Fade.7658:

Don’t warriors take more damage when they pop adrenaline or something like that? I’m a warrior noob, but I seem to recall that enrage causes more damage to the warrior. Correct me if/I am wrong.

You’re thinking of frenzy, which is a quickness giving skill.

1. WvW is not balanced like PvP.
2. It’s impossible for Mug to crit that high against anything but an upleveled player or one in terrible gear.

Navzar.2938:

Fade.7658:

Don’t warriors take more damage when they pop adrenaline or something like that? I’m a warrior noob, but I seem to recall that enrage causes more damage to the warrior. Correct me if/I am wrong.

You’re thinking of frenzy, which is a quickness giving skill.

Checking the Wiki:

Utility skills that cause frenzy

Frenzy (warrior skill)
Engineer (Elixir U (randomly)

It states that the user takes an additional 50% damage. If the warrior and engineer was hit by mug during this time, it’s very possible to see the numbers shown in the screen shot.

Interesting that the two classes in the screenshot have access to this. This is another case of showing results without anything to put things in perspective.

So how is Mug OP? You never stated why.

PearlGore.7419:

So how is Mug OP? You never stated why.

Look at the pictures lol.. Pretty sure its there

PearlGore.7419:

So how is Mug OP? You never stated why.

See “Confirmation bias at its finest” above.

What people are saying is that you cannot draw any conclusions from those screenshots simply because of the large number of variables that exist in wvw (gear, uplevelling, buffs, etc.).

Funny how its OP when its attached to a 45 second cooldown (granted with an instant cast) yet when its on a half second cast time move with a base cooldown of 8 seconds its fine…

And thats just thief access to such damage coefficients others have equivalent or better coefficient skills with less cooldown and aren’t limited in other area’s such as defense (as in they can achieve similiar damage levels and still be overall better than that zerker thief)

but yeah… totally OP…

Try it against non GC actual level 80’s and its a whole different story, specially if they saw you running to 900 range and I don’t know… did some counterplay?

Conditions to possibly pull-off an 11k non-critical dmg Mug;

- Full zerker + Rubies
- At least 30/30/x build
- Based on 2nd screeny – 24 stack of Bloodlust
- Target must have 2500 or less armor rating (not possible against 2600)

I can accept that it’s possible — but that’s not solely Mug’s fault that Mug deals that much damage now is it?

The problem here is this: Anet is creating PvE contents that would require players to deal an insane amount of damage — but — Anet don’t want players to bring that insane amount of damage from PvE to WvW — yet — they refuse to separate the two.

This problem has nothing to do with the profession and definitely nothing to do with Mug.

Either Anet stop creating high-end contents, which PvE players will get bored fast and may leave the game if they haven’t already, or accept the consequences in WvW. Or swallow their pride and separate PvE and WvW.

Why they keep aggravating their player-base is what I don’t understand.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Conditions to possibly pull-off an 11k non-critical dmg Mug;

- Full zerker + Rubies
- At least 30/30/x build
- Based on 2nd screeny – 24 stack of Bloodlust
- Target must have 2500 or less armor rating (not possible against 2600)

I can accept that it’s possible — but that’s not solely Mug’s fault that Mug deals that much damage now is it?

The problem here is this: Anet is creating PvE contents that would require players to deal an insane amount of damage — but — Anet don’t want players to bring that insane amount of damage from PvE to WvW — yet — they refuse to separate the two.

This problem has nothing to do with the profession and definitely nothing to do with Mug.

Either Anet stop creating high-end contents, which PvE players will get bored fast and may leave the game if they haven’t already, or accept the consequences in WvW. Or swallow their pride and separate PvE and WvW.

Why they keep aggravating their player-base is what I don’t understand.

I use Mug in my builds, so I’m upset that it’s getting nerfed; but it needs to be nerfed. I have 2 valkyrie pieces, and I don’t use bloodlust, I use precision stacks. One build was 30/30. In the other picture it was 25/30/0/0/15.
I just want them to add other variables to mug so it’s not rendered useless.

Issues.5789:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Conditions to possibly pull-off an 11k non-critical dmg Mug;

- Full zerker + Rubies
- At least 30/30/x build
- Based on 2nd screeny – 24 stack of Bloodlust
- Target must have 2500 or less armor rating (not possible against 2600)

I can accept that it’s possible — but that’s not solely Mug’s fault that Mug deals that much damage now is it?

The problem here is this: Anet is creating PvE contents that would require players to deal an insane amount of damage — but — Anet don’t want players to bring that insane amount of damage from PvE to WvW — yet — they refuse to separate the two.

This problem has nothing to do with the profession and definitely nothing to do with Mug.

Either Anet stop creating high-end contents, which PvE players will get bored fast and may leave the game if they haven’t already, or accept the consequences in WvW. Or swallow their pride and separate PvE and WvW.

Why they keep aggravating their player-base is what I don’t understand.

I use Mug in my builds, so I’m upset that it’s getting nerfed; but it needs to be nerfed. I have 2 valkyrie pieces, and I don’t use bloodlust, I use precision stacks. One build was 30/30. In the other picture it was 25/30/0/0/15.
I just want them to add other variables to mug so it’s not rendered useless.

I always thought people complained about not being about to react to Steal with Mug+Cloak and Dagger+Basilisk combo. if Mug doesn’t critical anymore, we’re still going to hit 3-4k+5k from Mug+Cloak and Dagger then following up with a backstab which totals up to 15k, you can still probably hit 20k at least. This nerf barely shaved off 2-4k extra damage from a critical Mug. To compensate for the loss in critical, all we need to do is perform more heartseekers.

Pentalic.5409:

Gotta love how people will do anything to argue a moot point xD
OP, I like your 14k backstab. Nice job pulling that one off

Was probably a front stab. Didn’t you know? Backstab hits guaranteed 50k if it doesn’t crit

Issues.5789:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Conditions to possibly pull-off an 11k non-critical dmg Mug;

- Full zerker + Rubies
- At least 30/30/x build
- Based on 2nd screeny – 24 stack of Bloodlust
- Target must have 2500 or less armor rating (not possible against 2600)

I can accept that it’s possible — but that’s not solely Mug’s fault that Mug deals that much damage now is it?

The problem here is this: Anet is creating PvE contents that would require players to deal an insane amount of damage — but — Anet don’t want players to bring that insane amount of damage from PvE to WvW — yet — they refuse to separate the two.

This problem has nothing to do with the profession and definitely nothing to do with Mug.

Either Anet stop creating high-end contents, which PvE players will get bored fast and may leave the game if they haven’t already, or accept the consequences in WvW. Or swallow their pride and separate PvE and WvW.

Why they keep aggravating their player-base is what I don’t understand.

I use Mug in my builds, so I’m upset that it’s getting nerfed; but it needs to be nerfed. I have 2 valkyrie pieces, and I don’t use bloodlust, I use precision stacks. One build was 30/30. In the other picture it was 25/30/0/0/15.
I just want them to add other variables to mug so it’s not rendered useless.

My whole point was/is — Mug is just a scapegoat. Red herring. Straw man. Rumpelstiltskin.

Don’t chase the wild goose or the white rabbit because that’s what Anet wants you to do, so that they don’t have to address the real issue — separating the sheep from the goats.

A warrior and engi both have access to frenzy which makes them take 50% increased damage. Guaranteed they were using those abilities since I have used mug countless times and the highest I’ve ever had it hit against anything was 8k against someone who dropped me a lvl 1 white in wvw.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Issues.5789:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Conditions to possibly pull-off an 11k non-critical dmg Mug;

- Full zerker + Rubies
- At least 30/30/x build
- Based on 2nd screeny – 24 stack of Bloodlust
- Target must have 2500 or less armor rating (not possible against 2600)

I can accept that it’s possible — but that’s not solely Mug’s fault that Mug deals that much damage now is it?

The problem here is this: Anet is creating PvE contents that would require players to deal an insane amount of damage — but — Anet don’t want players to bring that insane amount of damage from PvE to WvW — yet — they refuse to separate the two.

This problem has nothing to do with the profession and definitely nothing to do with Mug.

Either Anet stop creating high-end contents, which PvE players will get bored fast and may leave the game if they haven’t already, or accept the consequences in WvW. Or swallow their pride and separate PvE and WvW.

Why they keep aggravating their player-base is what I don’t understand.

I use Mug in my builds, so I’m upset that it’s getting nerfed; but it needs to be nerfed. I have 2 valkyrie pieces, and I don’t use bloodlust, I use precision stacks. One build was 30/30. In the other picture it was 25/30/0/0/15.
I just want them to add other variables to mug so it’s not rendered useless.

My whole point was/is — Mug is just a scapegoat. Red herring. Straw man. Rumpelstiltskin.

Don’t chase the wild goose or the white rabbit because that’s what Anet wants you to do, so that they don’t have to address the real issue — separating the sheep from the goats.

Potato, lumberyard, sheep, clock, kleenex, microphone, pencil, oranges, and a bowl of air. That’s how much sense you just made to me.

randomfightfan.4091:

A warrior and engi both have access to frenzy which makes them take 50% increased damage. Guaranteed they were using those abilities since I have used mug countless times and the highest I’ve ever had it hit against anything was 8k against someone who dropped me a lvl 1 white in wvw.

I don’t recall the warrior, but I definitely know the engineer was not, he was running away so he only vigor/speed buff.

TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you hit an upscale. ill bet you my legendary and all my gold you cant do that to any lvl 80! BS! i call str8 bs! stop the propaganda you h8er!

Travlane.5948:

TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you hit an upscale. ill bet you my legendary and all my gold you cant do that to any lvl 80! BS! i call str8 bs! stop the propaganda you h8er!

Therapy is the first step.

warrior whirl…traited and buffed right can do 120k . did u know that? hrm….sounds more OP that steal. or is Steal normal and whirl just OP? answer me that?

Without concrete evidence of levels, gear and the presence of frenzy or other abilities, this whole thread smacks of trying to get mug negative attention. Anyone can post insane damage screenshots but without the proper context, it’s hearsay.

Nothing personal, and I’m not suggesting you are a liar or anything, but you assuring us that the people in the screenshots are 80, geared and whatnot just isn’t enough.

It’s pretty much a moot point, as the changes to Mug are going in tomorrow and devs base changes on what they want, not posts here on the forum.

I do think adding a heal to mug is the wrong way to do things. Having it add conditions would make more sense, and the damage could remain the say potentially if the victim dodn’t cleanse their conditions.

You you’re right, I’m an undercover spy from Arena Net that came here to lie to you. I’ve never seen so many kitten thieves in my life.

LOL @ colonial blocking me bc i called him out on BS! he says its a lvl 80 engineer. ask his friend….well my friends im from dragonbrand. so im offering you a chance ….i will goo all attack no defensive runes…no gear etc like that and let you get 10-20 tries to be fair. if u break 7500 once ill pay you all my gold (350g) and all my ectos etc. take my bet. oh wait….u wont bc u know its bs. i will agree my thief peoples MuG is slightly OP. if you drop the base dmg by 20%. you will see the top end go from 6500 ish to about 4500ish. and thats top end makign norms 3800. which i think is fair. these crit buids add 250% total crit. which means if 6500 is high end…. means your only doing 2600 ish non crit as absolute max. which means the range is roughly 1000 -2600 dmg. and thats 2600 max dmg non crit as 30 30 0 0 10 with full zerk etc. so now…after the patch its going to do about 1500 on average. if u think its op…..we will agree. but what he is showing you is lies/propaganda. it can be proven. now what i suggest is drop the high end (of non crit) to like 2000 or 1900….making the max4250 with a crit (x2.5 for the 250% crit increase) . better way of dealing with somethin op.

no….not an undercover spy. just a hater. and liar. did you do 11k dmg with steal? yes. did you do it against a lvl 80? not without frenzy up.

Issues.5789:

You you’re right, I’m an undercover spy from Arena Net that came here to lie to you. I’ve never seen so many kitten thieves in my life.

Travlane.5948:

LOL @ colonial blocking me bc i called him out on BS! he says its a lvl 80 engineer. ask his friend….well my friends im from dragonbrand. so im offering you a chance ….i will goo all attack no defensive runes…no gear etc like that and let you get 10-20 tries to be fair. if u break 7500 once ill pay you all my gold (350g) and all my ectos etc. take my bet. oh wait….u wont bc u know its bs. i will agree my thief peoples MuG is slightly OP. if you drop the base dmg by 20%. you will see the top end go from 6500 ish to about 4500ish. and thats top end makign norms 3800. which i think is fair. these crit buids add 250% total crit. which means if 6500 is high end…. means your only doing 2600 ish non crit as absolute max. which means the range is roughly 1000 -2600 dmg. and thats 2600 max dmg non crit as 30 30 0 0 10 with full zerk etc. so now…after the patch its going to do about 1500 on average. if u think its op…..we will agree. but what he is showing you is lies/propaganda. it can be proven. now what i suggest is drop the high end (of non crit) to like 2000 or 1900….making the max4250 with a crit (x2.5 for the 250% crit increase) . better way of dealing with somethin op.

Okay I’ll take the deal LOL.

when and where? video only so u cant edit crap like above. walk over to a body . how much we bet? ill match as much as you can. have a moderator hold it. .

Travlane.5948:

when and where? video only so u cant edit crap like above. walk over to a body . how much we bet? ill match as much as you can. have a moderator hold it. .

You said no gear, and I get 20 tries to manage a 7.5k steal and I get 350 gold?

So if we don’t believe you and call you out on it, and you can’t prove it, you start with the sarcasm. Myself and others have given rational arguments against, without calling you a liar or anything negative, but you go on the defensive and start getting rude. Looks like someone doesn’t like being disagreed with.

At this point, I’m beginning to think your main is your warrior, and while you do play your thief, your warrior is your favorite and you wouldn’t mind seeing the thief take a nosedive.

Frankly, it doesn’t affect me either way, as I don’t know you, don’t play in your tier, and on top of that, I don’t even trait for mug. If you can’t even have a reasonable discourse on the subject, with an open mind, I’ll have to assume you’re a troll, (whether deliberate or not I can’t say nor care).

no defensive gear etc i said/meant. str8 berseker gear. the weakest out there.

Fade.7658:

So if we don’t believe you and call you out on it, and you can’t prove it, you start with the sarcasm. Myself and others have given rational arguments against, without calling you a liar or anything negative, but you go on the defensive and start getting rude. Looks like someone doesn’t like being disagreed with.

At this point, I’m beginning to think your main is your warrior, and while you do play your thief, your warrior is your favorite and you wouldn’t mind seeing the thief take a nosedive.

Frankly, it doesn’t affect me either way, as I don’t know you, don’t play in your tier, and on top of that, I don’t even trait for mug. If you can’t even have a reasonable discourse on the subject, with an open mind, I’ll have to assume you’re a troll, (whether deliberate or not I can’t say nor care).

srry u have a good point friend.. i just cant stand QQers ….well what i cant stand is anet listening to them. bc of QQs d/d is no longer playable p/p is no longer playable/ s/p is no longer playable…..sb isnt really playable as a dmg/primary set. p/d is barely playable bc of revealed 4 secs. s/d is decently playable and d/p is the only real choice. all bc of nerfs and nerfs alone. granted QQrs only have half the blame…anet the other. thieves are falling apart.