Guild Wars 2

So as the title goes, I find heartseeker to be a broken ability.

I don’t know what the dev’s were thinking, but thieves shouldn’t be able to spam this ability 6-7 times before they run out of initiative. I had the same problem with warriors in beta when their hundred blades was able to pour out such huge damage in a matter of seconds.

I do believe that classes should be able to build burst builds, but I think there needs to be a limit. My thief is able to do 7 heartseekers in 7 seconds, and on an elementalist, this amounts to (from full health), to a total of 24k damage.

I know that ele’s are squishy because they do big damage, but that doesn’t mean that a thief should be able to annihilate the average elementalist with four heartseekers.

I think to solve the issue, there needs to be a raise on the initiative cost, or there needs to be some sort of limit put on when and how often it can be used. (Like it can only be used when target is actually below 50%). I do believe that the thief should be able to put out the most single target damage quickly, but by making this ability so strong, so spammable, and so sticky (your target rarely escapes), it needs a nerf.

Only used when below 50% health?!?! That’s crazy, you can’t put a restriction like that on a weapon skill, those are not meant to be situational.

with regards to playing against thieves like that, feel free to inflict blindness or weakness to really put a damper on them, or go ahead and just kill them, because thieves that focus on massive damage usually end up eating dirt fast if they get hit in the face.

They could just reduce the damage by a lot when the target is above 40% health, they should also increase the initiative cost to 4.

I’m a thief and I really don’t like how broken heart-seeker is, it definitely needs fixing.

Hey Fateless you should really take a step back and learn more about the game and get better with your PvP tactics before you come posting for nerfs. Just because some thief rocked you doesn’t mean it’s overpowered. Heartseeker spam has to be IMO one of the easiest things to avoid in PvP – there are many ways to counter it.

No need to say that heartseeker will really beat that hard if the oponent is bellow 33% health.

If the enemy has more than 33% hp, hs spam is not the best damage output fot D/D thieves. With that in mind, if your foul has less than 33% hp and the thief has its full initiative bar ready for use… it will hurt no matter skill used. and then QQ more plox

Since you’re so good Whargoul, explain how you can avoid 5-6 back-to-back attacks with skillseeker spam.

imgur.com/DKkdS

Don’t get me wrong, I think heartseeker is a really cool ability. I just think that the “spamming” of it needs to be fixed somehow. It does huge damage and can be used every second 7 times in a row?

I think the easiest fix is to increase its initiative. It will force people to be more conservative with it.

Also, to people saying to get more skill because this game gives the ability to dodge and such.

In seven seconds, I get 2 dodges and that is IF I had full endurance to start the encounter. As I previously stated, the thief spamming heartseeker gets 7 attacks. On top of that, it auto-follows its target due to the sticky nature of the ability.

7-2= 5 heartseekers averaging even 3k damage (I’ve seen these as high as 6k when below 33%) is still 15k damage. That is enough to wipe out a full hp Guardian, elementalist and take every other class in the game down to below 25%.

Just seems like it needs some work. Don’t get upset because someone has realized that your class has one ability that needs tweaking. I didn’t call thief OP, I said one ability is broken.

Strongfort.2451:

imgur.com/DKkdS

LOL. +1

That’s easy Thedenofsin, don’t stand still like an idiot and let him beat on you. I understand you’re upset about heartseeker too – I saw your angry nerf post in the pvp thread.

I think a better way of balancing it would be to lower it’s initiative cost but decrease it’s damage significantly, or increase it’s initiative and let it’s damage be more consistent.

I don’t really think it’s overpowered. Just tumble away or stun him.

Whargoul.9613:

That’s easy Thedenofsin, don’t stand still like an idiot and let him beat on you. I understand you’re upset about heartseeker too – I saw your angry nerf post in the pvp thread.

Okay, so suppose I don’t just stand there.

I dodge twice (all endurance can give me), that leaves you with about 5 heartseekers before you’re out of initiative.

I can try to run away, yet due to heartseeker’s sticky nature, you literally jump to me and hit me every time, you don’t even have to be facing me. I can run through you, behind you, under you, over you, you always end up smacking me time after time.

I don’t buy your “just dodge it” attitude.

I never spam heartstriker, it’s just a really good ability against sub 50% hp targets, it’s a gap closer, a leap finisher, and does bonus damage on low hp targets. I can see how people complain about spam, but if I ever see a thief spamming heartstriker at a high hp target I know he’s going to be easy to take down.

maybe blindness, or even better daze the thief?

theres several ways to “fix” this skill.
Lower the damage on enemies greater then 33% hp
Increase its initiative cost
Reduce the Range of its leap
Make its leap not effected by Swiftness (this is my personal favorite as i hate that hearseaker gives more mobility then infiltrators arrow)

My main is an 80 thief, and I’ll be the first to admit that skillseeker needs tuning. I don’t think an initiative nerf is the way to go though. The most reasonable changes are as follows…

Reduce the leap range
Heartseeker works as a gap closer and finisher, while simultaneously being spammable. Its range doesn’t allow for targets to kite/CC for a breather.

Drastically decrease the 33%+ damage
D/D already has an amazing tool for sustained damage (Death Blossom), Heartseeker should function as our finisher, not our IWIN button. I wouldn’t even be opposed to buffing the <33% damage so that D/D plays as a condition/strategic build that has a go-to burst ability.

Increase its cast time
I occasionally use Heartseeker to travel faster around the map because of its leap/spamability. While doing this yesterday, I was sure that its cast time was increased. I think I was just hallucinating (or hopeful), but either way, I thought it was a great fix. By increasing its activation time, it cuts into the core of the problem — it has enormous burst when chained together in rapid succession. By making the move a bit slower, it allows for the same raw burst per cast, while fixing the issue that it hits too fast.

I believe one of these fixes would be reasonable while not fundamentally changing what Heartseeker is supposed to do.

GummiBear.2756:

maybe blindness, or even better daze the thief?

How many blinds/dazes do you think people have?

By last count in an ideal situation where you have full endurance, the thief still has 5 heartseekers left, and that is without him even leaving combat to regenerate any.

Unless I’m a guardian with an infinite number of blinds, most classes benefit from one blind, or a daze, or a stun.

That still leaves me to deal with 4 heartseekers. On average, from full health, that pulls most classes beneath 50%, and if I was at 50%, I’m easily dead.

I just don’t think heartseeker should be an “auto-execute” button. And if it is, then the above 33% damage needs to be drastically reduced. I know that a heartseeker against a full HP elementalist still hits for a good 3-4k. Thats just silly.

I think they should increase the auto attack damage of daggers and reduce the damage heartseeker can dish out above 33% health to promote it as a finisher or gap closer.

Whargoul.9613:

That’s easy Thedenofsin, don’t stand still like an idiot and let him beat on you. I understand you’re upset about heartseeker too – I saw your angry nerf post in the pvp thread.

I’m sorry, but your answer is woefully inadequate. Try again with a real solution to stop skillseeker spam.

Maybe every professions should get invisibility or 5x dodges to avoid this one spammable ability.

Wolfbrand.6523:

My main is an 80 thief, and I’ll be the first to admit that skillseeker needs tuning. I don’t think an initiative nerf is the way to go though. The most reasonable changes are as follows…

Reduce the leap range
Heartseeker works as a gap closer and finisher, while simultaneously being spammable. Its range doesn’t allow for targets to kite/CC for a breather.

Drastically decrease the 33%+ damage
D/D already has an amazing tool for sustained damage (Death Blossom), Heartseeker should function as our finisher, not our IWIN button. I wouldn’t even be opposed to buffing the <33% damage so that D/D plays as a condition/strategic build that has a go-to burst ability.

Increase its cast time
I occasionally use Heartseeker to travel faster around the map because of its leap/spamability. While doing this yesterday, I was sure that its cast time was increased. I think I was just hallucinating (or hopeful), but either way, I thought it was a great fix. By increasing its activation time, it cuts into the core of the problem — it has enormous burst when chained together in rapid succession. By making the move a bit slower, it allows for the same raw burst per cast, while fixing the issue that it hits too fast.

I believe one of these fixes would be reasonable while not fundamentally changing what Heartseeker is supposed to do.

I’m just glad that some of the thief population can admit to it being a little over the top. I’m not asking for the skill to be removed. Just curb the spamming, or at least lower the damage on +33% targets.

Fateless, a Thief does not have 21 int like you somehow seem to think. At most he has 15 with the Trickery line. You can dodge, blind, stun, daze, use swiftness, confusion, cripple… etc to counter. Like I said before, you should take a step back a re-evaluate how you’re trying to fight.

I think HS is perfectly fine. It gives thieves a nice flavour (limiting the class even more than it is at the moment would be a horrible decision imo)

thieves are paper made but they have great mobility and burst (there are others skills that make big numbers, not just hs). Learn to deal with it guys…

Thedenofsin.7340:

Whargoul.9613:

That’s easy Thedenofsin, don’t stand still like an idiot and let him beat on you. I understand you’re upset about heartseeker too – I saw your angry nerf post in the pvp thread.

I’m sorry, but your answer is woefully inadequate. Try again with a real solution to stop skillseeker spam. I’m sorry to say that your elite skills are neither skillful nor elite.

Maybe every professions should get invisibility or 5x dodges to avoid this one spammable ability.

The default dodge key is V btw and WASD to move – hope that helps you.

Whargoul.9613:

Fateless, a Thief does not have 21 int like you somehow seem to think. At most he has 15 with the Trickery line. You can dodge, blind, stun, daze, use swiftness, confusion, cripple… etc to counter. Like I said before, you should take a step back a re-evaluate how you’re trying to fight.

Unlike you seem to think, most burst thieves go into Trickery for the 15 initiative, and due to the initiative regeneration, by the time the thief has used all 15 initiative, they already have another 4, and by the time they use the next one, they have 3.

I’ve tested it multiple times.

I don’t know how many abilites you think classes have with that much CC, but I don’t know of many classes that can use stuns, dazes, slows, swiftness all at the same time.

And besides, I shouldn’t have to blow EVERY single CD that I have just to avoid your ONE ABILITY.

Whargoul.9613:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Whargoul.9613:

That’s easy Thedenofsin, don’t stand still like an idiot and let him beat on you. I understand you’re upset about heartseeker too – I saw your angry nerf post in the pvp thread.

I’m sorry, but your answer is woefully inadequate. Try again with a real solution to stop skillseeker spam. I’m sorry to say that your elite skills are neither skillful nor elite.

Maybe every professions should get invisibility or 5x dodges to avoid this one spammable ability.

The default dodge key is V btw and WASD to move – hope that helps you.

Let me explain something about how Heartseeker works: it auto-jumps to your opponent, regardless of where your opponent is. You see, that ‘WASD’ comment doesn’t work. Oddly enough, that “V” key only works twice in a row.

You’re just trolling now. Please stop unless you can provide constructive feedback.

So you ran into a thief was was all about burst damage. A heartseeker thief is going to be pretty good against one target who doesn’t fight back. But then he’s out of initiative and is going to be pretty helpless against the second target.

I’m curious what you’d do if you ran into me. See, I never use heartseeker. At all. I’m a condition damage / mobility thief. I’m going to poison and bleed you to death while never letting you use any of your big attacks. Sure, I can’t rip into huge swathes of enemies ala the elementalists. I can’t set up an area to defend before turning myself into a fire breathing monstrosity ala the engineer. I can’t wade into the thick of battle hitting multiple enemies with every swing ala the warrior. There are a whole bunch of things I can’t do that other classes can.

But what I can do is really ruin the day of 1-3 people at the edge of a fight. I can run down anyone trying to escape. And, I can get out of almost any fight if things start to go badly.

Kinda weird how it worked out that each class is good at some things and not at others, eh?

Whargoul.9613:

The default dodge key is V btw and WASD to move – hope that helps you.

Sorry, but you do realise Heartseeker also leaps you, right? While dodging obviously avoids a few of them, and you can still kite to an extent (although Thieves have Steal and Shadowstep, as well as their own slows), it’s very hard to avoid, and a Profession shouldn’t be designed in a way that spam CC is the only way to survive them.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Whargoul.9613:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Whargoul.9613:

That’s easy Thedenofsin, don’t stand still like an idiot and let him beat on you. I understand you’re upset about heartseeker too – I saw your angry nerf post in the pvp thread.

I’m sorry, but your answer is woefully inadequate. Try again with a real solution to stop skillseeker spam. I’m sorry to say that your elite skills are neither skillful nor elite.

Maybe every professions should get invisibility or 5x dodges to avoid this one spammable ability.

The default dodge key is V btw and WASD to move – hope that helps you.

Let me explain something about how Heartseeker works: it auto-jumps to your opponent, regardless of where your opponent is. You see, that ‘WASD’ comment doesn’t work. Oddly enough, that “V” key only works twice in a row.

You’re just trolling now. Please stop unless you can provide constructive feedback.

Not true it certainly has a limited range – obviously it does jump to you if you stay within that range. I’m sorry you’re having such a hard time with the skill but it is not as bad as you’re making it out to be. Perhaps with more gameplay experience you’ll understand.

Oh God Xavori! Common sense and intelligence does not belong here! Leave now! Lol

Erto.6832:

Whargoul.9613:

The default dodge key is V btw and WASD to move – hope that helps you.

Sorry, but you do realise Heartseeker also leaps you, right? While dodging obviously avoids a few of them, and you can still kite to an extent (although Thieves have Steal and Shadowstep, as well as their own slows), it’s very hard to avoid, and a Profession shouldn’t be designed in a way that spam CC is the only way to survive them.

If you chill a foe via Frozen Ground with a staff in water attunement…that chills the thief for a good while…and while he spams heartseeker to get to you, it cuts down how far his leap can go.

I don’t see why people have such trouble with thieves running this spec, for thieves to run this spec they have to have zero +toughness, and zero +vitality….meaning they are squishy.

1. Let the first two heartseekers hit you while your above 66% health because they don’t hurt too much.
2. Cast heal before you go under 66% health, to absorb two more.
3. Dodge roll two more

That is the generic form for ANY class to counter the HS spam thief. You just dodged/absorbed 6 of the 7 HS he has to put out. When he is out of initiative, you now have a squishy target sitting in front of you that will die with your general rotation.

(For an Ele)
4. Cast Frozen ground BETWEEN you and the thief, and kite him around the AoE….chances are he won’t go through it, but if he is an idiot and tries to HS thru it, then he will be chilled and his next two HS might send him forward about a yard. At this point, most thieves will panic, and still try to spam HS to get to you while wasting initiative.

I have not died to single HS thief using this strategy. It also usually ends in him getting frustrated in chat, because he is so used to just flat out owning people.

Whargoul.9613:

Oh God Xavori! Common sense and intelligence does not belong here! Leave now! Lol

Prolly helps that I’m an altaholic (not sure if you ever played Champions Online, but I have 71 alts there smirk) and actually have a warrior, engineer, elementalist, mesmer, and ranger. I’d have more, but I forced myself to not buy more than one character slot until I get the rest of them to 80 (my main, the thief, is already there).

I’m also a big fan of sPvP where you can try out pretty much any build you want with your character to see what they can, and more importantly, cannot do.

Xavori.3768:

So you ran into a thief was was all about burst damage. A heartseeker thief is going to be pretty good against one target who doesn’t fight back. But then he’s out of initiative and is going to be pretty helpless against the second target.

I’m curious what you’d do if you ran into me. See, I never use heartseeker. At all. I’m a condition damage / mobility thief. I’m going to poison and bleed you to death while never letting you use any of your big attacks. Sure, I can’t rip into huge swathes of enemies ala the elementalists. I can’t set up an area to defend before turning myself into a fire breathing monstrosity ala the engineer. I can’t wade into the thick of battle hitting multiple enemies with every swing ala the warrior. There are a whole bunch of things I can’t do that other classes can.

But what I can do is really ruin the day of 1-3 people at the edge of a fight. I can run down anyone trying to escape. And, I can get out of almost any fight if things start to go badly.

Kinda weird how it worked out that each class is good at some things and not at others, eh?

I appreciate your point, and also appreciate that you can debate something without being mean. With that said, I don’t know if I can fully agree with your point on the heartseeker thief. As I said before, I don’t find the build you run OP. Its a solid viable pvp build. The issue I have is where you say “A heartseeker thief is going to be pretty good against one target who doesn’t fight back. But then he’s out of initiative and is going to be pretty helpless against the second target.”

First off, the target can’t fight back because he’s spending every CD and endurance he has just to survive/avoid the burst.

Second off, why should any class be able to burst down a target and then be good against a second target? A thief shouldn’t be able to blow up anyone the way they currently are.

There are multiple times where a thief pops on any given target at a node and wins the fight. I think this is fair. A thief should be the king of 1v1.

What I don’t find fair is that the opposing class never had a chance. They get nuked down and they lose the point. Its the same issue that was had with hundred blades warrior.

No class should be able to annihilate another class with one ability. There needs to be skill involved. And that skill shouldn’t just be a skillseeker.

People are going to defend their class from the inevitable nerfs that will probably happen anyways. I think most people are just too blind to see that their abilities might need to be balanced…

everything was said and possible solutions explained, hope it will get fixed soon.

Honestly i’m just tired of this build being everywhere. It’s a extremely irritating build that has zero skill cap. These builds shouldn’t exist. Honestly i think HB takes more skill then this nonsense. And this is comming from a thief.

A full initiative bar is 12(15 with spec) points, and heart seeker costs three. Tell me again how people spam this 6 to7 times?

In any case, I’ll meet you half way. Nerf the dmg done to enemies with more than a 30 % health bar. Other then that, people need to learn how to roll sideways.

Agreed Swick.

At least HB combo requires landing some sort of root before hitting HB.

I just want the spammability to be removed, or the +33% damage reduced.

Increase Intitative and decrease range and heartseeker is balanced again

Candiru.5279:

Increase Intitative and decrease range and heartseeker is balanced again

Not sure about the initiative, but you can decrease the range on your own. Cripple the thief.

Seriously, decrease his movement speed. Doing that decreases the range of heartseeker. Then kite him. The thief blows heartseekers on trying to get to you, goes like 2 feet with every one, blows all his initiative, has no health, no toughness, nothing left. So then just kill him straight up.

I would like to just make a quick mention for people giving solutions of applying CC to the thief. I never even mentioned thief utility. I was only referring to heartseeker.

If you want to get technical with slowing them/stunning, whatever CC you wish.

They have stealth, shadowsteps, dazes, stuns, poisons. Everything you do to stop them, they’ll catch right up.

Fateless.6985:

I would like to just make a quick mention for people giving solutions of applying CC to the thief. I never even mentioned thief utility. I was only referring to heartseeker.

If you want to get technical with slowing them/stunning, whatever CC you wish.

They have stealth, shadowsteps, dazes, stuns, poisons. Everything you do to stop them, they’ll catch right up.

And your class does not have a full set of abilities to help deal with this as well?

Viladel.1837:

Fateless.6985:

I would like to just make a quick mention for people giving solutions of applying CC to the thief. I never even mentioned thief utility. I was only referring to heartseeker.

If you want to get technical with slowing them/stunning, whatever CC you wish.

They have stealth, shadowsteps, dazes, stuns, poisons. Everything you do to stop them, they’ll catch right up.

And your class does not have a full set of abilities to help deal with this as well?

Not when I used all my CD’s/endurance to survive the initial seven heartseekers.

callabhan.3627:

A full initiative bar is 12(15 with spec) points, and heart seeker costs three. Tell me again how people spam this 6 to7 times?

In any case, I’ll meet you half way. Nerf the dmg done to enemies with more than a 30 % health bar. Other then that, people need to learn how to roll sideways.

5 HS’s = 5 seconds

initiative regen is 3 every 4 seconds

in that 5 seconds he gets 3 initiative back…then steal also gives 3 initiative

therefore 7 HS

also…people that are complaining about this build are probably running glass cannon builds….thieves usually go in and try to destroy the light/medium armor wearing classes…when i am on my Guardian or Warrior, a thief hardly ever targets me

so if you really want to combat the HS spam…put together a toughness/vitality spec…and watch as the HS’s do absolutely nothing

also call a target on the thief if your on vent/skype/mumble with ur friends….never travel alone, always stay in a group…

there are a million ways to stop the heartseeker thief

I don’t really see it as too big of a problem, it’s not that big of damage compared to what other classes can do. But if you want to change it, this would be my suggestion:
25% lower damage than current when health is above 50%
25% higher damage than current when health is below 25%
25% bonus damage when target is poisoned (this part could be added to an underpowered trait, perhaps in a line heartseeker isn’t normally used with)
Places an assassins mark on target when used, which expires after 2 seconds
Cannot be used when target has an assassin’s mark
(these last two are similar to the sneak-attack nerf called “revealed”

Fateless.6985:

Viladel.1837:

Fateless.6985:

I would like to just make a quick mention for people giving solutions of applying CC to the thief. I never even mentioned thief utility. I was only referring to heartseeker.

If you want to get technical with slowing them/stunning, whatever CC you wish.

They have stealth, shadowsteps, dazes, stuns, poisons. Everything you do to stop them, they’ll catch right up.

And your class does not have a full set of abilities to help deal with this as well?

Not when I used all my CD’s/endurance to survive the initial seven heartseekers.

See, you’re taking things out of order. Let’s say you encounter a thief who starts using Heartseeker spam. You use a cripple to slow him down, making his heartseeker almost completely uneffective, and start kiting him.

He then uses a shadowstep to get to you. So you used a cooldown, now he used a cooldown. It’s your move, you have to do something else to get away from him, whether that’s simply rolling away (He’s still crippled, remember), or some other ability that lets you escape from his grasp.

Chances are the Thief will have two Shadowsteps at most. One from Steal, which is going to be about a 36 second cooldown if they have Preparedness (If they’re Heartseeker spamming, they do), and the other coming from either a Signet or the actual Shadowstep utility power. Not all thieves will take the utility powers, and most thieves will not take both utility powers. So you’ll have to get past 1-2 Shadowsteps.

As for Stuns and Dazes, Thieves don’t actually have much in terms of those. Pistol offhand comes with a 0.25 second interrupt, and if we get lucky, we can (randomly) steal a 3 second daze depending on the class we’re facing, but I can’t recall any stuns or dazes other than those that aren’t based on specific traits that the Heartseeker thief definitely won’t have. There is the Pistol Whip from Sword/Pistol, but if you’re up against that, you’re not up against Heartseeker.

There are poisons, and you’ll have to watch out for those. The two of concern are going to be the Chill and Immobilize poisons. Both are short duration though, and again, not every thief will have them, and most won’t have both. The other thing you have to watch out for is the Knife throw for ranged cripple if they are Dagger/Dagger, but that spends 4 Initiative, which means less Heartseeker spam.

There are ways around these. If a Thief is going to throw abilities at you to stay on top of you, then you’ll have to throw abilities back. That’s how the game works. If you’re not willing to use that first SINGLE ability to cripple the Thief, then you’re going to eat all seven Heartseekers. If you do use that ability, then it comes down to who can outplay the other, and in that case all the Heartseeker spam did was weed out the unskilled players unwilling to really try.

HS is OP but its not going to save use if you fight back, I see some many people just run, RUNNING WILL NOT SAVE YOU.

Some of you really need to learn your class. When we spam HS there are not to many ways to get back the initiative we have lost especially if we are all DMG. The only way to get it back is auto-attack its not going to come back fast and the other way is from traits but then we lose out on dmg. Not all thief’s go into trickery I don’t. I like to live longer then 1 or 2 skirmishes and by this I mean 1v2 I will lose cause if I am all dmg I have no survivability, I may get one downed but your other teammate is going to down me in witch case I lose and you still live some of the time. There are many classes that can go 1v2 and hold out for a lot longer then a thief can especially when they go all dmg.

Now 1v1 yes we many have a upper hand but that’s just till we have no initiative left to spend. Jordo just said how you can live do that and you many live more so then running and not doing anything. Many of you wait till the last sec to save your self if u get to 75% hp heal evade and evade guess what you live, now fight back guess what you live.

Now if you are having trouble maybe you should try a better build for your class cause I also play a Guardian in pvp I can 1v2 on a point all day a thief comes 1v1 and he just tickles me. I have no dps like 1600 attack and 9% crit and i can still kill them.

Before you come on the forums plz have something good to say if your asking for a Nerf cause there are so many build out there for other classes that give you survivability.

Fateless I see you said you tested it on an elementalist one you tested on a pub I am guessing in witch most Cause they will suck cause many are trying to learn there class in pvp not the best way to learn a class imo. Second and ele who use Water attuenment and Earth attuenment will live. Water has Vulnerability and chill plus multiple heals and your heal skill, Earth has Weakness, cripple, Immobilize and bleeds good for kiting with the evade roll.

PVP is about knowledge of your class and other classes you cant out dps a pure dps class you have better support use them and stop playing by your self. This is not WoW or swtor there are no PVP states and no healers to save you or make up for not knowing something.

Jordo.5913:

also…people that are complaining about this build are probably running glass cannon builds….thieves usually go in and try to destroy the light/medium armor wearing classes…when i am on my Guardian or Warrior, a thief hardly ever targets me

I’ll target you. The joy of condition damage is that your armor doesn’t matter. And since I’m using a lot of Death Blossom and dodges, I’m evading most of your attacks. Throw in a Cloak and Dagger and my heal with stealth, and you don’t get to use your big slow attacks while I’m using my biggest and baddest: Backstab. And unless one of your buddies shows up to save you, you’re going to die.

That said, if I land in a stun (aka stupid elementalists blah) I’m just so much roadkill. I mean, I have slightly more survival in that case than the heartseeker build thief, but not enough that it’s really going to matter.

As for the people suggesting spamming dodge and CC’s and what not to beat a heartseeker thief. I’m thinking that’s pretty inefficient, not to mention really difficult since timing the dodge to the thief’s leap is tricky. You’re best bet is to start some kind of AoE even if you’re not sure where the thief is. In the case of elementalists, this is pretty easy since things like Frozen Ground will just totally ruin the thief’s day. The goal is to catch the thief once. After that, you get to dictate how the fight happens, and that’s a disaster for a glass cannon.