Guild Wars 2

Ane’t can’t be serious..or better said, the responsible Dev for it can’t be serious…
If this is what the Elite-Spec should be for us, then this Concept truly shows, how massively out of touch that Dev is with the whole Class, the current overall Game Balance and most especially the huge Weaknesses of this Class that have grown to be too much within the last Game Balance Changres, without that have been made appropiate counterworking changes to the Thief Class.
Instead we got over 3 years with 90% of all Patches always only nerfed, nerfed nerfed … to the point, that they nerfed with the last Patch a complete traitline even to death, just so that the new Traitline of our Elite-Spec can come up now with Effects, that are basically features and effects, that should have been found since 3 years in the dead nerfed Acrobatics Trait Line…

The Concept of our Elite Specilization under Anets Designs offers absolutely NOTHING to do anything against the current massive game imbalances, nor does it anything at all greatly against the biggest game breaking weakness of the Thief Class, where you would think now, that the Elite-Specilization with the Staff Weapon would be now logically the most perfect solution for that issue to provide with it the thief Class finally a Build Diversity Option, with that you can do somethign as player against this game breaking weakness.

I’m speaking of Thieves being extremely weak against Conditions and even more weak against Hard CC’s due to practically having nearly no Stability at all and the only skil lthat has it sucks hard, due to Stability in itself havign been nerfed so that our Elite Skill that provides Stability has become so ridiculous, that it absolutely lost all of its worth to be called even at all an Elite-Skill, because its easily instantly interruptable by just fearing the Thief, where Stability should protect you against that crap normally!!
—-

But before I continue, lets look first on what all our Elite Specialization puts onto the table to decide, what is good and what is useless junk that should get changed instantly in regard also with fixing Acrobatics by moving certain things over to acrobatics to bring back Acrobatics back and using the created gaps under the Elite Spec Traits to add new Traits, which actually give the class something useful and unique for the Trait Line, for which doesn#t have to be death nerfed first an other Main profession Traitline to have a purpose to give the E Spec Traitline a superior thing over what the original Main Profession Trait Line provided earlier
—-

This will we gain with the E-Spec:

• +1 time more possible to do a Dodge Roll due to receivign a 3rd Dodge Bar Segment
• Endurance Gain on Steal (so means no change on our Main profession Mechanic..just lazy…)
• Whirl Finisher Multi Target Condition Damage on Dodge (if this counts for every single dodge, without ICD, then this would be a real good trait, but I’d make a tiny change on it – instead of Bleeding, it should give Poison)
• Endurance Gain on spent Initiative
• Heal on Evasion
• Extra Damage after Evasion
• Condition Removal on Evasion (as you can quickly realize, this Spec is like all about Evasion mostly only!!..seriously, its absolutely out of touch by what the Class needs.. yes it shows that some Devs seem to have read the Thief Forums, but sadly they seem to have ready only the threads where people QQ’ed about bringing back Build Diversity by letting return the high evasive gameplay… and basically ignored all the rest >.> THX)
• Endurance Gain on Physical Usage
• Another Trait that removes specific Conditions on Dodge and increases Dodge Distance + Swiftness Gain thats much better than what you get from Acrobatics
• Burst Damage on Interrupt (this has some OP factor in itself, which needs to be looked at)
• 5s Weakness of Critical Hits on 10s ICD (only good when you can keep up the Weakness through Cover Conditions for 5s bevore AEnemy can quickly remove it)
  —
  On Weapon Side we get:

• A cleaving Auto Attack with that you will be able to Maintain practically over 10 stacks of Vulnerability if you just constantly AA, but who woudl seriously do that??
• A Knockdown Stealth Attack
• A little Multi Hit Weakness Attack
• A Cripple Attack with integrated Backwards Dodge Roll that removes Immobilize on us
• A cleaving Blindness Attack
• A 600 Range AoE Leap Attack which further devalues Build Sets like D/D
  —-

On Heal/Utities/Elite we receive:

• A pulsing Heal that regenerates Endurance and heals more at Max Endurance.
• A Stun Break Block with Knockdown Counter Attack
• An Attack Combo String with included Stun, Burst and unblockable uno critical finisher
• A Throwing Dagger Kit with temporary 3 throable Daggers which increase Enemy Skill Cool Downs
• A throwing Dagger Skill, which Poisons, slows and immobilizes (umh the conditions make so much sense, especially immobilize /facepalm here)
• As elite another multi section 3 part attack Combo String, which can instant kill Downed Enemies, if you can land the hit after 2 seconds of total animation time, before the enemy gets rezzed, time in which you are same as vulnerabile/stoppable, as like when you do just a normal stomp finisher, you are just practically like a felt second faster and that for every 40s once, while beng against something that can’ be used underwater /facepalm, where we have there no build diversity since 3 years and just can take with us only that silly Basilisk Venom that isn’t by fas as effective there, as like on land
  ——

So without ranting any much further about how I dislike this design and by knowing now exactly, what kind of gameplay design anet has in mind, I want to make with my next posting a COMPARISON simply, how I persinally think, how the Thief class should get rebalanced with all of this information about the new skills , traits and the weapon effects in my mind now, how I think it would be a much better Concept Design that would get near to the quality that the Chronomancer, the Reaper and the Berserker deliver (due to Robert Gee working on them), where the other Elite Specs (DH, Tempest) and the new Class, the Revenant massively fail in my opinion.
However – in regard of the Rev, theres again someone else for resposible (Roy) in this case, it’s not the job of Robert Gee, which in my opinion is here the only Dev, which makes superb work currently with his Concepts for Elite Specializations

So Part two ,the Comparison:

The point to an Elite Specialization is not to solve the ‘needs’ of a class but rather offer an alternative play style. Core class issues do definitely need to be addressed but not in the form of a new Spec. If Anet did that then all thieves (and other classes with their E.Specs) would feel more or less obligated to take up the Elite Specialization since it would correct their core needs/issues.

I get that Daredevil looks and feels like a glorified Pre-6/23 Acrobatics, but the ‘alternative play style’ of Daredevil is in the more up-front physical tactics (buffed evade) rather shadow-stepping or stealthing away.

I am monitoring this thread.

MakubeC.3026:

I am monitoring this thread.

i feel a lot safer now, tks!

git gud
/15char

“The point to an Elite Specialization is not to solve the ‘needs’ of a class but rather offer an alternative play style…”

This makes me laugh a little bit because from what we can see so far, it doesn’t give us an alternate play style…just an alternate weapon while killing other weapons, so it really doesn’t give us anything. it’s sad really.

No idea what you’re talking about, I love it.

There isn’t much overlap between Acrobatics and DD. DD has no Vigor, only raw endurance gains with a bunch of other benefits. Acro is all about gaining and using enhanced Vigor (with some other nice stuff like stunbreaks and initiative sustenance). They complement each other, but do not replace each other.

From the way Staff skills, Physical skills and the traits work, I can already envision a few different ways to play, which is what Elite specialisations are all about. Heck, I might actually take off Shortbow in PvP due to that tasty leap and AoE Weakness + Blinds plus easy escapes from Mesmer Sword Shatter bursts.

What makes you think that having specialisation lines that are somewhat underwhelming compared to others is a particularly bad situation for Thieves over others? I can only imagine the horror for you if you mained Necromancer.

I can’t believe the thought processes of some people on these forums. We got a ton of stuff we’ve always asked for relating to reliable non-Stealth condition removal, decent utility CCs and stunbreaks to get out of using Deceptions constantly, a good Elite to replace just having to use Basi since it’s all we’ve got…and people still complain as if the profession is dead.

I pity whoever has to read feedback, across the board for most Elites in general, but for Thief in particular. Some people can just NEVER be happy.

Girbilcannon.8259:

“The point to an Elite Specialization is not to solve the ‘needs’ of a class but rather offer an alternative play style…”

This makes me laugh a little bit because from what we can see so far, it doesn’t give us an alternate play style…just an alternate weapon while killing other weapons, so it really doesn’t give us anything. it’s sad really.

Heh, I never said they were doing THAT great a job on their ideology

(All hail Chrono!!)

Edit: The difference so far in DD seems that the Spec is supposed to promote a more in-your-face playstyle rather than relying on smoke and mirrors. Personally, I like the fact that DD shifts its utility focus on evasion rather then relying on Stealth.

Girbilcannon.8259:

“The point to an Elite Specialization is not to solve the ‘needs’ of a class but rather offer an alternative play style…”

This makes me laugh a little bit because from what we can see so far, it doesn’t give us an alternate play style…just an alternate weapon while killing other weapons, so it really doesn’t give us anything. it’s sad really.

Condi removal outside of stealth. Defensive healing outside of stealth. Rewards for successful CC. Yes, without a smoke field on 4 staff is a little underwhelming, especially since with has 2 whirl finishers and a leap finisher, but I’ll reserve my judgement till i see it in action. Blocks on thief. Low CD stunbreaks on thief. An alternative elite to BV for land. How does this kill other weapons? If they would fix deathblossom on D/D to something like whirlwind attack, the set could easily run in this line.

Yeah, I’m disappointed that they nerfed acro for acro 2.0, but the major traits they have in this are better than almost anything acro ever had. My hope is that they go through our other defensive lines and bring them up to be on par with this. This is at least a move in the right direction.

Well the fat lady has sung. Because after seeing this thief profession is officially dead to me. My main was a thief, i liked the gunslinger feel of p/p, but taking away ricochet and hastened replenishment traits really made any chance of playing p/p thief again not a fun experience. sure there is condition based specs around p/p that are single target, but for me unless pistols are aoe like from ricochet offered, p/p isn’t playable for me, and so that started my attempt to try to bring my thief out of the ashes. I tried every weapon to get a feel for it and see if it could maybe fill the hole left by Anet by removing those from me. In the end nothing felt right, and i learned i hate playing thief at melee range. Now i have to decide to just delete my long standing thief character to make room for something else, or hold on to it in hopes Devs will someday return ricochet to us. it has been a long journey because it has forced me to try every profession so far in the game, and nothing else feels right. I have a lvl 80 of every profession, i leveled them all to get a feel for every profession before i made thief my main. maybe ranger as druid will get shapeshifting, and i don’t mean like norn elite skills, i mean more like engineer kits where you choose a form and can stay in it, if that works out maybe i will still play GW2 after everything is all revealed, but saddens me how the 2 years in the game is starting to feel wasted all because Anet in there infinite wisdom decided to take traits away from a playstyle that really needed more buffing then nerfing.

Reiteration of the Thief Elite-Specialization

THE SKIRMISHER

= Main Mechanic Change =

Steal becomes “Risk Sense”

Risk Sense
Risk Sense is the new Gameplay Mechanism of the Skirmisher.
It practically works similar like Initiative, but just in a slightly different way.
Risk Sense doesn’t have constantly a full bar like Initiative, it starts at 0 and it has more segments than Initiative.
Risk Sense has no own Build Up, like Initiative, instead you gain an increase in in, whenever you receive Damage and over the course of time, while you are standing in Enemy AoE’s, so willingly recklessly taking the Risk of receiving Damage, where a normal Thief would want to get their butts quickly out of that…

Whenever you reach certain Points on your Risk Sense – it has basically like Adrenaline 3 Tiers, you gain with each added Tier some unique Buff Effects that help you to endure longer risky situations, while becoming also at the same time more and more DANGEROUS for your enemies, so longer you can endure the danger/damage to become able to activate the Special Ability that comes together with this Mechanic – you will be able whenver you reach a tier of your Risk Sense to perform a so called Risk Breaker, which will be a special Martial Art Move that is based on your equipped Weapon Set, with that you perform either a proactive devastating Attack or reactive powerful Counterattack for the sacrifice of resetting your Risk Sense to 0 again and losing also the Buff Effects

So with this Change the Elite-Spec won’t use anymore any Steal Skills, instead you gain special Weapon based Skills that become stronger/more dangerous for the enemy, so longer you can endure your own reckless playstyle taking willingly the risk of receiving damage, while the Mechanic allows you to endure also at the same time longer that risk, so higher your Risk Sense rises in its tiers, until you reach the Max Tier 3.
——

First Changes to Staff, cause its the new Weapon that I’d do here:

Auto Attack:

Staff Bash > QuickThrusts > Windmill Dash
A quick Staff Slash, followed by quick multiple striking staggering Thrusts of the Staff that daze the foe for 1s, if all 3 thrusts hit and deal damage, followed by a Whirling Staff Leap Line of Sight Atttack with the Mechanic of the Warriors GS Whirwind Attack, which will reflect projectiles while the animation is running that deals to all foes in that line of sight multiple hits and which slows foes instead of giving them Vulnerability, when all of the attacks hit for like 2s

= Stealth Attack =

Rising Phoenix Slash
You perform a burning Uppercut Attack, with that you launch the foe away from you. That Enemy turns into a Player Projectile, that sets nearby allies it touches also on the same amount of Burnign Stacks. This Skill deals more Burning Stacks on every 15% Health you lost. So foes will suffer on 6 Stacks of Burning, if you use this Skill at 10% Health for example max and allies that get near/touch the launched enemy will also get then 6 Stacks of Burning.

Reckless Charge
The Effect of this Skill gets simply changed from Weakness to Vulnerability and should receive the additional effect, that when this attack should get blocked, then the enemy should get launched away from you.

Delibilitating Arc
Perform a Backward Dodge Roll with that you evade incoming hits, which works as Stun Breaker and stuns nearby enemies around you with a Counterattack, if they have more health at the moment, than you.

Dust Assault
Block the next incoming Melee Attack and perform a dirty Counterattack, that blinds and confuses enemies. The Confusion becomes bigger, if your Risk Sense rises in its Tiers. 2 Stacks Confusion on Tier 1, 4 Stacks Confusion on Tier 2, 6 Stacks Confusion on Tier 3

Dance of Deflection
Perform a whirling Combat Dance with your Staff at your Place, with that you deflect Melee Attacks for a while, while also receiving for some seconds Stability, Protection and Resistance as logn the animation runs, a skill that helps you by standign your ground and holding a position, instead of doing weird perma evades…

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.

Auto-attack reflects AND CCs and SLOW?!? Spammable stunbreaks on initiative skills? Cheap launches? Channelled blocks with Stability, Protection and Resistance?

This is why you are not responsible for balance. No wonder you thought DD was bad, if THAT is your expectation.

Uh.. Am I missing something? Was there a reveal / article or is this all speculation based on data-mined stuff? Cuz uh.. Eles got a sword datamined and I believe Wars found different/scrapped abilities.

Seems a bit early to be bashing and crying.

Orpheal

Staff Bash > QuickThrusts > Windmill Dash
A quick Staff Slash, followed by quick multiple striking staggering Thrusts of the Staff that daze the foe for 1s, if all 3 thrusts hit and deal damage, followed by a Whirling Staff Leap Line of Sight Atttack with the Mechanic of the Warriors GS Whirwind Attack, which will reflect projectiles while the animation is running that deals to all foes in that line of sight multiple hits and which slows foes instead of giving them Vulnerability, when all of the attacks hit for like 2s

Uh…. that auto attack….. have you tried ranger 1h sword? Yeah…. I don’t want forced movements on auto.
A launch based on initiative like that?
A stunbreaker that stuns on the weapon? So you took one of the new utilities and put it on the staff?
If I understand you, #5 is ranger axe 5 that also grants stability and resistance……

IT IS NOT EVEN FULLY ANNOUNCED YET FOR THE LOVE OF ABADDON STOP WHINING!!!!!!!
WHINE after its out, by all means, but until then you are proving that the internet is a place for whiners…
Seriously can you not just be RATIONAL about things??

Anet:
“Finally, we’re here. When we talked about rangers becoming druids and necromancers with greatswords, those were examples of what we call elite specializations. These are the brand-new level-80 specializations that will begin to introduce new weapons, MECHANICS, skills, and traits to existing professions in Heart of Thorns.”

I don’t think nerfing Feline Grace and then giving it back is a “new” mechanic. I hope I am wrong but it seems like we will be the only class that won’t get a new mechanic.

Too much people are crying about the new specialization, it’s getting really boring, I love the concept of Daredevil, and no, I’m not new in this game. I just wanted a traitline that could add more build diversity in melee specs, and I’m very satisfied. Daredevil traitline WILL compete, the boring d/p DA/SA/Trick meta (in spvp), thanks to all the feedback that they will get during the BWE.

EDIT :

even more weak against Hard CC’s due to practically having nearly no Stability at all and the only skil lthat has it sucks hard, due to Stability in itself havign been nerfed so that our Elite Skill that provides Stability has become so ridiculous, that it absolutely lost all of its worth to be called even at all an Elite-Skill, because its easily instantly interruptable by just fearing the Thief, where Stability should protect you against that crap normally!!

We don’t need stability.

Guys, you can’t seriously defend this:

THE SPECIALIZATION UNIQUE ADDITION is something that the Thief ALREADY HAD AS A REGULAR TRAIT on early builds of the game, they nerfed it and now they present it as something we should be thankful for.

That’s the same than a food company making its burguers a bit smaller each month, then sell you the original size for double the prize saying it’s new and big.

It also proves that they don’t know what to do with the Thief identity, we have too many small mechanics that aren’t even that good when you combine all of them, and there isn’t something you would say “this is what defines the Thief”, the fact that instead of working over one of those small mechanics they added a new one (not new as it was a simple regular trait long time ago) shows they still are confused about what the Thief is supposed to do with his resources.

Yeah some stuff of the spec sound cool… but that’s only because that’s what we always wanted on our NOT SPECIALIZED Thief, and we’re too used to getting the short stick so getting something “ok” feels incredible.

Oh well, sounds like Close quarter Combat Panda to me. Pretty much thief. Lame.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Uh.. Am I missing something? Was there a reveal / article or is this all speculation based on data-mined stuff? Cuz uh.. Eles got a sword datamined and I believe Wars found different/scrapped abilities.

Seems a bit early to be bashing and crying.

^ this

Volrath.1473:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Uh.. Am I missing something? Was there a reveal / article or is this all speculation based on data-mined stuff? Cuz uh.. Eles got a sword datamined and I believe Wars found different/scrapped abilities.

Seems a bit early to be bashing and crying.

^ this

Ele got the warhorn datamined. The sword thing was much older and not right before the reveal. Thief reveal is this week and the datamining is from recent files, so it’s set in stone.

I don’t get how people can still be delusional with comments like these when this stuff has been proven correct time and time again.

But then, this is the community that said we weren’t getting Mesmer during development even if literally everything was pointing in that direction… or even Staff Thief for a more recent example. Smh.

Um. i don’t know what this rant is about, but.

The Elite Spec is QQ food.

Changes to the Healing, Utility and Elite Skills I’d do:

The Skirmisher receives not “Physicals”, he receives as Utility Skill Type “Initial Moves”, that are their own form of Physicals, which are based on martial artistic multi string skills all

= Healing Skill =

Energetic Charge > Distraction > Fulminant Discharge
You Heal for a static amount of Health based on 10% of your Max Health and you lose per pulse 1 Endurance Bar, then you have for the while that the Skill is on Cooldown 30% increased Endurance Regeneration and your Attacks will have for each Endurance Bar that you then regain back an increased Damage of +5% and you gain also +5% Critical Hit Rate for each regained Endurance Bar in that time.
The Skill turns while on Recharge into Distraction, that becomes useble as long your Risk Sense has at least Tier 1.
Distraction is a Risk Breaker, which lets you quickly Shadow Walk to a Location, while Shadow Walking you will avoid all incoming Melee Attacks, but ranged attacks will deal increased damage. On higher Risk Sense Tiers will give you Distraction also an AoE Blind Field on Movement at Tier 2 and weakens foes at Tier 3
If you have Tier 3 Risk Sense at the last 5 Seconds of Recharge, you are able to perform the Skill Fulminant Discharge in that time window, which is a Block Skill, that counters any incoming attack with a ranged Energy Attack through a whirling thrown Staff, that turns through that Energy into a large Shuriken, which will hit all foes in line and again when it returns to you like a boomerang. So its a skill, that rewards positioning alot to hit multiple targets twice, using practicalyl the skill mechanic of the Elementalists Phoenix Skill…just that the skill animation is a large energetic shuriken instead with the whriling thrown staff being its base, so that the Class gets a healing skill, that can work also at the same time as a ranged attack, while waiting on it, that the heal recharges, if your willing to take the risk at the moment to sacrifice your Risk Sense Tier 3 and the buffs you get with that then.

= Utilities =

Skirmisher’s Defense > Reflexive Strike > Pressure Point Thrust
Block the next incoming Attack, stun break and gain Protection if you have Risk Sense Tiers which increases in Duration per Tier.
While Skirmisher’s Defense recharges can you perform Reflexive Strikes if you have at least Tier 1 of Risk Sense. Performing Reflexive Strikelets you perform an unblockable Attack that removes Boons and lets you gain them, if the foe has more Health than you.
If the recharge is on the last 5 seconds, you become able to use Pressure Point Thrust, which is a quick thrust attack to your target to knock the foe down. This Skill will also put the enemies Healing Skill on Recharge, or increases the Cooldown Time, if it was on recharge of the enemies Healing Skill.

Fist Flurry > Palm Strike > Pulmonary Impact
Stays for now as it is, as this skill is the best prime example for the Combat Moves, just only, that Palm Strike and Pulmonary Impact here would get in line with the linked mechanic to the Risk Sense System, that the last two Skills become only useable, when you have at least 1 Tier of Risk Sense and the last one on the last 5 seconds of Recharge from the so called “Initial Moves”

Distracting Daggers > Toxic Daggers > Merciless Daggers
You throw 3 Daggers that weaken hit foes. While the Initial Move is on Recharge, you are able to throw Toxic Daggers, which torment foes and give them Hallucinations (Screen Blur Effect and seeing Clones of you if you Stealth). At the last 5 seconds of Recharge with Tier 3 of Risk Sense, you can perform Merciless Daggers, which deal 5% increased Damage for every Boon a foe has and convert conditions from you to your target.

Spider Bite Slash > Turtle Defense > Monkey Fist
Perform a Leap Attack that Poisons enemies and counts if you do that with a Venom active as local Venom Share to nearby Allies.
While on Recharge with at least Risk Sense 1, you can perform Turtle Defense, a Block Counter, which slows your enemy and gives based on your Risk Sense also Torment.
On the last 5 seconds of recharge, you can perform Monkey Fist, an energetic Staff Attack, that will stun foes for 2 seconds, while you regain Endurance back, if the attack hits.

= Elite =

Impact Strike/Impact Lunge (Underwater) > Sweeping Tail /Enchaining Counter (Underwater) > Finishing Blow/Finishing Thrust (Underwater)
Strike your target with an leap attack, that dazes, while you evade incoming hits.
if the enemy uses at the same time a skill, that would evade attacks, Impact Strike/Lunce cancels for the enemy this effect, unless its also an Impact Strike, then both sides will block each other.
When the Skill is on recharge, you can perform with at least Risk Sense 1 the Skill Sweeping Tail, which is a line of sight knock down attack.
At full Risk Sense you can perform Finishing Blow, when you perform this Skill, you will gain Stability, Resistance and Protection and will finish downed enemies.
If this Attack hits a just knocked downed enemy which isn’t in downed state, then this skill will put the enemies Elite Skill on recharge or increase the recharge of it, by xx seconds when it was already on cooldown. Recharge Time increased from 40 to 50s
—-
In regard of underwater Combat changes only the effect of Sweeping Tail, while it is on land a line of sight knockdown, Enchained Counter is instead a line of sight sinking, by putting heavy weighting chains onto the enemy.

maybe its a little better than tempest?

Orpheal.8263:

Changes to the Healing, Utility and Elite Skills I’d do:

The Skirmisher receives not “Physicals”, he receives as Utility Skill Type “Initial Moves”, that are their own form of Physicals, which are based on martial artistic multi string skills all

What’s wrong with calling them “Physicals”? Is that a change for the sake of making a change?

the only down side i see from getting physicals is the nerf to improv since with a new ability type the chance of resetting the CD’s of one particular type goes down from 20% to 16%.

Unless you wanted us to get all new utilities using a category we already, it’ll have to happen.

And this will never happen cause I don’t think ANet wants us to use core traits to improve the new utilities we get.

Now, the last bit, the comparison of how I would change traits, with the new effects from the new traits in mind, especially in regard of Acrobatics and giving the Elite Specialization instead more unique effects, that are based on the Main Class mechanic change to give the Elite Specialization also the feeling, that it actually comes over also like a real game changer for you and not like just a lazy uninspired upgrade that is made so like that, to brign essentially only Acrobatics 2.0 into the game, that is in everything much better, than the original old version that got nerfed to death by anet.

Acrobatics

= Minor Adept =
Endurance Thief
Gain Endurance when you Steal

= Major Adept =

• Evasive Empowerment = Deal 10% more Damage after your successful Evade with your next Attack
• Vigorous Recovery = Gain Vigor when using a Healing Skill. Gain Health on Dodge while Vigor is active
• Escapist’s Absolution = Removes Confusion, Burning, Bleeding, Poison or Torment on successful Dodge

= Minor Master =
Feline Grace
Your Dodge ability is replaced by a long range dash, which removes Cripple and Chill. You gain Swiftness and Vigor on successful Dodge now too

= Major Master =

• Hard to Catch = Break Stun on Hard CC automatically every 30s and regain Endurance. Reduces effectiveness if applied to you Fear and Immobilize.
• Lotus Training = Hurl Daggers at enemies on Evade, which Poison, Torment and Cripple foes.
• Swindlers Equilibrium = Successfully evading attacks with Sword, Spear or Dual Daggers recharges your Steal, or lets you instantly perform your last used Initial Move again.

= Minor Grandmaster =
Endless Stamina
Increases your Maximum Endurance Threshold by + 50 and Vigor is more effective for you

= Major Grandmaster =

• Don’t Stop = Slow and Stuns applied to you havereduced effectiveness on you. Periodically ignore Immobilize Effects, turning them into Slows.
• Upper Hand = Initiative Regeneration is increased by 25%. Deal 10% more Damage against blinded enemies.
• Assassins Reward = Heal yourself periodically for every Initiative Point that you have.
  Lets on activation of Signet of Malice steal 2 Boons from the Enemy and deactivate their Healing Skill or increase the Recharge Time from the enemies Healing Skill Cooldown, if the skill was already recharging at that moment.

I don’t understand how people can say this is Acro 2.0 when:

1. New traitline doesn’t give vigor
2. Acro isn’t even THAT bad right now.

I currently run a DA/Ac/Tr build with Sword+Dagger and while I agree that it is not viable in PvP, I have destroyed Burn Guards, D/D eles, D/P thieves, and even PU Interrupt Mesmers.

Sure it WAS nerfed but not as bad as everyone QQ’s about. I do think it does need certain traits reworked but everyone cries about Acro like if it’s completely useless when it’s given us 3 pretty good traits like Swindler’s Equilibrium, Hard To Catch 2.0, and Don’t Stop. Seriously, Swindler’s Equilibrium+Improvisation on Deadly Arts is pretty kitten good.

The new traitline offers us ACTIVE endurance regeneration and defense while Acro offers passive options. That’s what’s different. So it’s not Acro 2.0, it’s Acro’s cousin. They do similar things but in different ways.

Rain.9213:

I don’t understand how people can say this is Acro 2.0 when:

1. New traitline doesn’t give vigor
2. Acro isn’t even THAT bad right now.

I currently run a DA/Ac/Tr build with Sword+Dagger and while I agree that it is not viable in PvP, I have destroyed Burn Guards, D/D eles, D/P thieves, and even PU Interrupt Mesmers.

Sure it WAS nerfed but not as bad as everyone QQ’s about. I do think it does need certain traits reworked but everyone cries about Acro like if it’s completely useless when it’s given us 3 pretty good traits like Swindler’s Equilibrium, Hard To Catch 2.0, and Don’t Stop. Seriously, Swindler’s Equilibrium+Improvisation on Deadly Arts is pretty kitten good.

The new traitline offers us ACTIVE endurance regeneration and defense while Acro offers passive options. That’s what’s different. So it’s not Acro 2.0, it’s Acro’s cousin. They do similar things but in different ways.

Acro is mathematically bad right now and the playstyle was largely changed from active dodging to passive procs.

Traiting CS with Signets of Power and using Signet of Agility yields better active defenses as well as more damage. If they give it endurance regen not tied to vigor (say replacing endless stamina with 5 endurance on hit, 1 second icd), I’ll use the line. Right now it offers limited benefits for a short fight and not enough sustain for a longer fight.

I guess you sort of mentioned the active/passive relationship already between the two lines, but that largely ticked off a bunch of people.

(These observations are from a PvP perspective)

Rain.9213:

I don’t understand how people can say this is Acro 2.0 when:

1. New traitline doesn’t give vigor

That’s the same than saying you don’t understand how a backstab build is DPS when it doesn’t use multihit attacks.

Vigor is endurance recovery, just in the form of a boon (a nerfed one at it), the new traitline have many different bursts of endurance but at the end of the day the focus is on keeping you dodging, just exactly the same function than vigor.

Now the comparison with how I’d change the Skirmisher Trait Line under my iteration:

Skirmishing

= Minor Adept =
Staff Master
Gain Access to the Staff and Initial Move Skills.
Deal bonus Damage, while wielding a Staff and not having full Endurance and have increased Durations of Stability and Resistance while wielding a Staff.

= Major Adept =

• Guarded Initiation = Gain Endurance and Resistance, when you first activate an Initial Move. Initial Moves have 20% lesser Cooldown Time.
• Weakening Strikes = Deal Weakness on Critical Hits
• Brawler’s Tenacity = Gain more Toughness so lesser your Health becomes. Your Risk Sense gain is also increased by 10%

= Minor Master =
Recklessly Riskful = Risk Breaker Skills deal increased Damage and after using a Tier 3 Risk Breaker will reset your Risk Sense maximum only to Tier 1, not anymore go back to 0. It resets then only to 0, when you are out of Combat.

= Major Master =

• Unhindered Combat = Your Block Skills will block 1 times more and deal 10% increased Damage when you counterattack.
• Enforcer Training = Your Finishing Blows/Lunges and normal Finishers heal you and your nearby allies, while also receiving Fury, Might and Retaliation when you finish someone with Finishing Blow/Lunge or normal Finishers
• Impacting Disruption = Perform a Pulmonary impact, when you interrupt a foe.

= Minor Grandmaster =
Driven Fortitude
Gain Stability on successful Dodge. Gain also Resistance when you gain Stability and your Health Threshold was under 50% Health.

= Major Grandmaster =

• Blooming Lotus = You gain a random Venom Charge on Dodge. Your Dodge Durations are now increased by a half second for all Skills that let you dodge.
• Farsight
  Increases the range of your leaps as also the Range of Pistol and Shortbow Skills by +300
• Reckless Initiative
  Increases your Initiative Costs by +1 for all Weapon Skills, but increases the Damage of your Weapons Skills per Initiative they cost by +2,5% and increases for them all the Critical Hit Rate by +10%, while you self receive also per every Initiative you have a decreased Chance of -2% per Initiative to get critically hit.

welcome to Karl McLain classes.

Dragon Hunter – crap, terrible name
Edit: from the latest post,it’s clear he has no idea what to do with the traits, just keeps digging himself a deeper hole with Guardian players. We need an intervention. Robert Gee, please help Karl.
Tempest – crap, terrible weapon
Edit: more support and aoe to the support and aoe King class. GG Karl.
Daredevil – another terrible name, and the leaked information made me laugh
Edit: if you were gonna go with staff, it should have been towards a support role, as the thief severely needs a tanky option. Staff + Meditations that cleanse condi and strip boons, heal, grant boons to self/allies.

Lokheit.7943:

Rain.9213:

I don’t understand how people can say this is Acro 2.0 when:

1. New traitline doesn’t give vigor

That’s the same than saying you don’t understand how a backstab build is DPS when it doesn’t use multihit attacks.

Vigor is endurance recovery, just in the form of a boon (a nerfed one at it), the new traitline have many different bursts of endurance but at the end of the day the focus is on keeping you dodging, just exactly the same function than vigor.

You can make the same comparison between a Berserker and default Warrior though. Berserker really doesn’t change Warrior THAT much. It simply gives their burst skills AoE and/or Burning and increases their attack speed by 10% while Berserking. It doesn’t really do anything different from standard Warrior aside for giving you another alternative for the standard builds. Only reason people are freaking out about Daredevil is because they wanted something that would make Thief top of the meta again and improve on the class when that is NOT what Elite Specializations are meant to do. Elite Specs simply serve to add variety and while the concept of being evasive isn’t new to Thief, the fact that this is very offensively oriented with a Martial Arts+CC heavy flavor does add some interesting new capabilities to the Thief. All the whiners act like the Tempest whiners who are just upset that their Elite Spec isn’t something better than standard D/D Ele build when it’s clearly more group support oriented.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Uh.. Am I missing something? Was there a reveal / article or is this all speculation based on data-mined stuff? Cuz uh.. Eles got a sword datamined and I believe Wars found different/scrapped abilities.

Seems a bit early to be bashing and crying.

Yeah it’s not officially confirmed, but there’s still this and this

Rain.9213:

You can make the same comparison between a Berserker and default Warrior though. Berserker really doesn’t change Warrior THAT much. It simply gives their burst skills AoE and/or Burning and increases their attack speed by 10% while Berserking. It doesn’t really do anything different from standard Warrior aside for giving you another alternative for the standard builds.

It gives Warrior a really solid Condi option, which it didn’t really have previously. It existed mostly in pvp but has always been overshadowed by zerker/power since always.

With all the burning options available to Berserker, it really opens up a whole new build/play-style. As a warrior+guardian main, I’m pretty excited to play around with sword/torch + longbow condi build. Since dragonhunter pretty much sucks, It’s looking like my Guardian will be GS/Mace+Focus for another 3 years.

But back on topic, the Thief Elite is pretty laughable so far. The leaked skills are just more of the same in the kit. I’m interested in seeing the full reveal, but Karl does not have a good track record so far.

Furthermore, you have to go back 22 pages to find a post from Karl, from 2 months ago. He’s pretty out of touch with the community, almost none of “his class” players know who he is, it’s no wonder he has no clue what we want for the class we play 1000x more than he does.

Aorin.9168:

Rain.9213:

You can make the same comparison between a Berserker and default Warrior though. Berserker really doesn’t change Warrior THAT much. It simply gives their burst skills AoE and/or Burning and increases their attack speed by 10% while Berserking. It doesn’t really do anything different from standard Warrior aside for giving you another alternative for the standard builds.

It gives Warrior a really solid Condi option, which it didn’t really have previously. It existed mostly in pvp but has always been overshadowed by zerker/power since always.

With all the burning options available to Berserker, it really opens up a whole new build/play-style. As a warrior+guardian main, I’m pretty excited to play around with sword/torch + longbow condi build. Since dragonhunter pretty much sucks, It’s looking like my Guardian will be GS/Mace+Focus for another 3 years.

And what does Daredevil give thieves? A really solid stunlock, evasive set with options for condition specs. Traited with Bountiful Theft, literally anything not capable of blocking or invulning as you cc them is gonna suffer heavily. Sword Dagger has a daze and basilisk venom. With this, you have 7 possible ways of either dazing, launching, or stunning an enemy, not to mention traits that synergize wonderfully with these interrupts such as Impacting Disruption and Brawler’s Tenacity.

Sword/Dagger also works really well for staying on your enemy while Staff is more of an AoE/chase them down kinda playstyle. Just because it has evades and doesn’t use stealth doesn’t mean it’s necessarily the same S/D style gameplay we had before. As I said, it does something similar by giving you evades instead of stealth but whereas Sword/Dagger Acro is all about evasively staying on your target, Daredevil is more about smashing into them and annihilating them with disables and quick strikes.

Also Warriors already had a pretty solid condi option with Dual Sword+Longbow so idk what you talkin bout Willis.

Final Point:

Risk Breakers

This would be the Weapon based Risk Breaker skills and their tiered Effects.
Performing these Skills out of Stealth, so called Stealth Risk Breakers lets you have the advantage, that the next time you perform an Attack out of Stealth, then you will have 25% reduced Reveal Time. So instead of being 4 seconds revealed, you will be only 3 seconds revealed when doing a Stealth Attack after using a Risk Breaker.
This Bonus Effect is stackable to maximum 100% and resets then, so if you perform 4 Risk Breakers and do then a Stealth Attack, for that one attack you won’t get Reveal then

Staff

Windmill Shield
Whirl the Staff in front of you fast, like a shild, that will reflect projectile attacks and based on your Risk Breaker Tier, you deal with the reflected projectiles different high damage and effects.
Tier 1 = Simply Reflect Projectiles only
Tier 2 = Reflected Projectiles have +100% Velocity and are unblockable and piercing
Tier 3 = Reflected projectiles will bounce between multiple nearby targets and daze foes, if a foe gets hit by a same reflected bouncing projetile more than once.

Sword

Black Lotus Strike
Strike a foe twice while evading incoming Melee Attacks. Foes will suffer on Torment when you successfully evade that way attacks with this skill.
Tier 1 = Evade for 3/4s and Foes receive 2 Stacks of Torment when you evade attacks.
Tier 2 = Evade for 1s and Foes receive 3 Stacks of Torment when you evade attacks
Tier 3 = Hit the foe now 3x, Evade for 1s and foes receive 4 Stacks of Torment when you evade attacks

Dagger

Critical Agility
Gain Quickness, Swiftness and Fury. Receive 10% when using this Skill for the Duration of Swiftness being up. (means, this can be extended if you use skills that renew/increase the duration of Swiftness after using Critical Agility, the Damage reduction will hold on longer then, until Swiftness runs out)
Tier 1 = 3s of Quickness, 10s of Swiftness and 10s of Fury
Tier 2 = 4s of Quickness, 12s of Swiftness and 12s of Fury
Tier 3 = 5s of Quickness, 15s of Swiftness and 15s of Fury

Pistol

Deadly Paradox
While you have Boons on you active, will decrease every second the Boons last also a second of all your Conditions and Conditions that you apply will last longer, as long you have Boons on you.
Tier 1 = Increased Boon/Condition Duration of your next received Boon/dealt Conditions with Pistol by + 10%
Tier 2 = Increased Boon/Condition Duration of your next received 2 Boons/dealt Conditions with Pistol by + 25%
Tier 3 = Increased Boon/Condition Duration of your next received 3 Boons/ dealt Conditions with Pistol by + 40%

Shortbow

Punishing Arrow
Shots a piercing line of sight arrow, that hits all targets in its way, Immobilizing, crippling and weakenening them. If this Attack hits somebody, who tries to block this skill, will get launched away.
Tier 1: Range + 20%, All Conditions last 2s longer.
Tier 2: Range + 35%, All Conditions last 3s longer.
Tier 3: Range + 50%, All Conditions last 4s longer and the Arrow bounces between targets like a Trick Shot per each unlimitless unique hit target once, making this a great skill against zergs especially.

Spear

Dolphin Rush
Perform a lunge underwater to your target, evasive like a Dolphin, where you hit all targets on your way to your target, dazing them, while evading incoming hits. When you reach your targeted enemy, the final strike will let your target sink.
Tier 1: Range + 20%, Dazes/Sink lasts 1s
Tier 2: Range + 35%, Dazes/Sink last 2s
Tier 3: Range + 50%, Dazes/Sink last 3s and you regain some Endurance back.

Harpoon Gun

Swap
You place the location with your tarteted enemy
Tier 1: And you lose a Condition and steal a boon from that target.
Tier 2: You deal damage with Swap, if the enemy had lesser Health than you, you get Healed, if you had lesser health than your target with Swap now.
Tier 3: Your Healing Skill gets instantly recharged and you deactivate the Healing Skill lof your Target or at least increase its Recharge Time, when it was already on Cooldown

Orpheal.8263:

Changes to the Healing, Utility and Elite Skills I’d do:

The Skirmisher receives not “Physicals”, he receives as Utility Skill Type “Initial Moves”, that are their own form of Physicals, which are based on martial artistic multi string skills all

= Healing Skill =

Energetic Charge > Distraction > Fulminant Discharge
You Heal for a static amount of Health based on 10% of your Max Health and you lose per pulse 1 Endurance Bar, then you have for the while that the Skill is on Cooldown 30% increased Endurance Regeneration and your Attacks will have for each Endurance Bar that you then regain back an increased Damage of +5% and you gain also +5% Critical Hit Rate for each regained Endurance Bar in that time.
The Skill turns while on Recharge into Distraction, that becomes useble as long your Risk Sense has at least Tier 1.
Distraction is a Risk Breaker, which lets you quickly Shadow Walk to a Location, while Shadow Walking you will avoid all incoming Melee Attacks, but ranged attacks will deal increased damage. On higher Risk Sense Tiers will give you Distraction also an AoE Blind Field on Movement at Tier 2 and weakens foes at Tier 3
If you have Tier 3 Risk Sense at the last 5 Seconds of Recharge, you are able to perform the Skill Fulminant Discharge in that time window, which is a Block Skill, that counters any incoming attack with a ranged Energy Attack through a whirling thrown Staff, that turns through that Energy into a large Shuriken, which will hit all foes in line and again when it returns to you like a boomerang. So its a skill, that rewards positioning alot to hit multiple targets twice, using practicalyl the skill mechanic of the Elementalists Phoenix Skill…just that the skill animation is a large energetic shuriken instead with the whriling thrown staff being its base, so that the Class gets a healing skill, that can work also at the same time as a ranged attack, while waiting on it, that the heal recharges, if your willing to take the risk at the moment to sacrifice your Risk Sense Tier 3 and the buffs you get with that then.

= Utilities =

Skirmisher’s Defense > Reflexive Strike > Pressure Point Thrust
Block the next incoming Attack, stun break and gain Protection if you have Risk Sense Tiers which increases in Duration per Tier.
While Skirmisher’s Defense recharges can you perform Reflexive Strikes if you have at least Tier 1 of Risk Sense. Performing Reflexive Strikelets you perform an unblockable Attack that removes Boons and lets you gain them, if the foe has more Health than you.
If the recharge is on the last 5 seconds, you become able to use Pressure Point Thrust, which is a quick thrust attack to your target to knock the foe down. This Skill will also put the enemies Healing Skill on Recharge, or increases the Cooldown Time, if it was on recharge of the enemies Healing Skill.

Fist Flurry > Palm Strike > Pulmonary Impact
Stays for now as it is, as this skill is the best prime example for the Combat Moves, just only, that Palm Strike and Pulmonary Impact here would get in line with the linked mechanic to the Risk Sense System, that the last two Skills become only useable, when you have at least 1 Tier of Risk Sense and the last one on the last 5 seconds of Recharge from the so called “Initial Moves”

Distracting Daggers > Toxic Daggers > Merciless Daggers
You throw 3 Daggers that weaken hit foes. While the Initial Move is on Recharge, you are able to throw Toxic Daggers, which torment foes and give them Hallucinations (Screen Blur Effect and seeing Clones of you if you Stealth). At the last 5 seconds of Recharge with Tier 3 of Risk Sense, you can perform Merciless Daggers, which deal 5% increased Damage for every Boon a foe has and convert conditions from you to your target.

Spider Bite Slash > Turtle Defense > Monkey Fist
Perform a Leap Attack that Poisons enemies and counts if you do that with a Venom active as local Venom Share to nearby Allies.
While on Recharge with at least Risk Sense 1, you can perform Turtle Defense, a Block Counter, which slows your enemy and gives based on your Risk Sense also Torment.
On the last 5 seconds of recharge, you can perform Monkey Fist, an energetic Staff Attack, that will stun foes for 2 seconds, while you regain Endurance back, if the attack hits.

= Elite =

Impact Strike/Impact Lunge (Underwater) > Sweeping Tail /Enchaining Counter (Underwater) > Finishing Blow/Finishing Thrust (Underwater)
Strike your target with an leap attack, that dazes, while you evade incoming hits.
if the enemy uses at the same time a skill, that would evade attacks, Impact Strike/Lunce cancels for the enemy this effect, unless its also an Impact Strike, then both sides will block each other.
When the Skill is on recharge, you can perform with at least Risk Sense 1 the Skill Sweeping Tail, which is a line of sight knock down attack.
At full Risk Sense you can perform Finishing Blow, when you perform this Skill, you will gain Stability, Resistance and Protection and will finish downed enemies.
If this Attack hits a just knocked downed enemy which isn’t in downed state, then this skill will put the enemies Elite Skill on recharge or increase the recharge of it, by xx seconds when it was already on cooldown. Recharge Time increased from 40 to 50s
—-
In regard of underwater Combat changes only the effect of Sweeping Tail, while it is on land a line of sight knockdown, Enchained Counter is instead a line of sight sinking, by putting heavy weighting chains onto the enemy.

All incredibly over-designed.
Simplify.

So much negativity. Dare Devil has me seriously considering returning to Thief as my main. To each their own, I suppose…

yeah! I’m sure they will redesign all the traits and abilities 1 day before the live stream presentation just cuz you asked for it!

/sigh

Rain.9213:

And what does Daredevil give thieves? A really solid stunlock, evasive set with options for condition specs. Traited with Bountiful Theft, literally anything not capable of blocking or invulning as you cc them is gonna suffer heavily. Sword Dagger has a daze and basilisk venom. With this, you have 7 possible ways of either dazing, launching, or stunning an enemy, not to mention traits that synergize wonderfully with these interrupts such as Impacting Disruption and Brawler’s Tenacity.

Sword/Dagger also works really well for staying on your enemy while Staff is more of an AoE/chase them down kinda playstyle. Just because it has evades and doesn’t use stealth doesn’t mean it’s necessarily the same S/D style gameplay we had before. As I said, it does something similar by giving you evades instead of stealth but whereas Sword/Dagger Acro is all about evasively staying on your target, Daredevil is more about smashing into them and annihilating them with disables and quick strikes.

Also Warriors already had a pretty solid condi option with Dual Sword+Longbow so idk what you talkin bout Willis.

Control effects are cool and all, until you fight a champ/legend.

As for warrior, sure they had access to condi weapon skills, but very little in the way of traits and utilities, which the Berserker addition brings to the table.

I feel like some of these Elites are better than others in terms of playstyle variation. Reaper, Chronomancer and DragonHunter (longbow, not traps) do a pretty good job of opening up a new playstyle. Tempest and “Daredevil” (hate the name btw) seem to be just more of the same for their respective classes, support for Ele, Damage for thieves. If the goal was to open up “new” playstyles, from the looks of things Daredevil isn’t doing much to that effect.

HEY OP I’m gonna joke all over you with my staff lockdown wombo combos.
Im then i’m gonna joke so many condis with my d/d DD evasive condi build LOL

Spurrlock.3219:

HEY OP I’m gonna joke all over you with my staff lockdown wombo combos.
Im then i’m gonna joke so many condis with my d/d DD evasive condi build LOL

Preach

Aorin.9168:

Control effects are cool and all, until you fight a champ/legend.

Then you can switch to Dagger/Pistol. Daredevil is not a specialization in a vacuum, you are not required or forced to use staff/physicals at all times.

agnostAnts.7065:

Then you can switch to Dagger/Pistol. Daredevil is not a specialization in a vacuum, you are not required or forced to use staff/physicals at all times.

Seems like a PvP spec/weapon is what I was alluding to. Champs/Legendary mobs in PvE would be more or less business as usual with the current weapon sets and this “shiny new toy” will have a very small niche in the PvE game mode, like Tempest warhorn and Guardian shield.

I don’t play a thief, so perhaps my perspective here would be helpful, and perhaps not.
Thiefs as i see them are a highly, highly skill based class. Personally i started out with every intention to play a thief but quickly realized how good your reaction time has to be and how much you need to be able to out maneuver your enemy, as well as the situational awareness requirement. I’m not going to say it’s not harder to play, but rather that it’s designed to be harder to play. There’s no shame in admitting that you don’t have the awareness or reflexes to play a thief well. They do seem to be in a pretty good place seeing as even a bad thief can usually backstab me for a very good sized chunk of health.
The good ones can run circles around you and drop you before you even knew what hit you, in pve they can evade through ranks of enemies and deliver huge spikes of damage or conditions.
The bad ones though? They fail. And they fail much, much harder than a bad player slotted into any other class would.

Oh, and evasion is very much a thief thing, even if it isn’t specific to the thief it’s definitely more important to them and more used by them than any other class.

CynicalFred.9135:

Oh, and evasion is very much a thief thing, even if it isn’t specific to the thief it’s definitely more important to them and more used by them than any other class.

while I’m not one of the more negative types, this used to be true of stealth, now look at mesmer.

It’s gonna be fun and it’ll make me want to play thief which I have never stayed interested in long enough to get beyond level 20… After I used an auto-20 book. Hhaha

I really like what I see. I always wanted to try a pistol pistol thief. Even though the Daredevil elite spec was showcased to wield a staff I think their dagger utilities skill and recent trait reveals at Dulfy really fits into this feel of a gunslinger kiting and hindering enemies approaching him/her.

Trait such as

Unhindered Combat: your dodge becomes a dash (360 distance traveled), gain swiftness (8 sec), removes chill and cripple. Even with an internal cool down this is great as long as the cool down isn’t 10 secs or more…

Impact Disruption: when you interrupt someone apply Pulmonary Impact!
Pulmonary Impact: At the end of the skill duration apply massive damage that cannot critically hit. It has 1803 dmg right now. You gain access to this effect when you successfully finish your Fist Flurry (must hit five times) but with pistol 4 lol.

Driven Fortitude: heal yourself for 461 after a successful dodge goes well with the Flawless Strike trait in the core spec.

Skill such as

Distracting Dagger: use to equip 3 daggers last 15 sec that daze foes for1/4 of a sec each. Yep more Pulmonary Impact opportunities.

Impairing Daggers: fire 3 daggers at once that poison, slow and immobilize that single enemy.

They both have 900 range just like a pistol and has a trait that reduce their cool down by 20% Brawler’s Tenacity.

There are other Daredevil traits that I can see working with Deadly Arts but going with Deadly Arts/Critical Strike/ Daredevil seems glassy to me.

I prefer Critical Strike/Acrobatics/Daredevil seems pretty hard to kill in pvp though as long as you don’t dash into a wall bad in small place… hmmm open wvw battle ground seems annoying too.

I can’t wait to see the final version. Anet it does look op as right now maybe a weaker Pulmonary Impact if it was caused by the trait or maybe it has a 20 sec cool down as the Fist Flurry skill that would balance it? But this new thief play style seems really fun to me don’t remove it because it wasn’t intended (not everyone wants to use staff) balance it out too please.