Guild Wars 2

I have shifted from D/P to S/D to finally P/D and I am quite happy with this weapon set. But I would greatly appreciate any suggestions and advice you guys can give me on my build. Also, alternative builds and general P/D discussions are welcome, as long as it doesn’t deviate too much from my request

Build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZEQRAqY6Yl0Mp6plOxpJ8rNBNR59V0FbomBQB0ZU0XA-TFyCABA8QAUVJIK6HMw8nRK/Ye/hbU/hizAApAWUaE-w

General Idea
This build aims to kite and force to kite enemies, while stacking torments and other conditions. It is strong in evasion, a large initiative pool and makes good use of steal.

Traits
MUG: Deal a bit dmg while having a 2k HP heal every 30 sec
QUICK VENOMS: Faster recharge of Skale venom, more torment

VIGOROUS RECOVERY: more evades, better survivability
PAIN RESPONSE: One of two condi cleanses with 30 sec interval

UNCATCHABLE: with this many dodges, it is a good tool for kiting
RICOCHET: makes it easier to deal with groups of enemies
BEWILDERING AMBUSH: great tool against classes with rapid attacks, especially D/D and D/P thieves

Utility Skills
SMOKE SCREEN: blind enemies with projectile finishers, protects from ranged attacks and helps in kiting
SHADOWSTEP: mobility and condi cleanse
SKALE VENOM: Torment
REAPER OF GRENTH: It’s great fun to go invisible and have this one active

Gear
All Carrion with Runes of Tormenting.

Strategy
The highest priority is to stack torment against enemies using SHADOW STRIKE. If the enemy is hit three times with this skill alone and allows the conditions to tick away, he is as good as dead. The bleeds with autoattack have the advantage that if the opponent rinses, he will rinse the latest inflicted conditions, and not the torment.

Dodging and leaving behind caltrops helps significantly to kite opponents. With WITHDRAW, the vigor gained from it, 4 points in acrobatics and the Sigils of Energy on the weapons, I can easily dodge 6-7 times in a row if need be.

I used to use SLEIGHT OF HAND instead of BEWILDERING AMBUSH. But the 5 stacks of confusion just pack decent damage. With stacks of corruption, it hits with 1050 dmg per enemy skill used.

SMOKE SCREEN is a great way to prevent damage when Endurance is running low, helping to recover endurance while hiding behind it. And by the time, endurance runs low again, SMOKE SCREEN is most likely available again.

Please advise on my strategy, my trait point distribution and my utility skills. Thanks.

I have absolutely no usefull advice for this build. I’m just here to ask why you want to play P/D?

You seem to have figured it out quite well. And you seem to be a bright and kind guy/lady. But if there is one specific build that I hate the most of all, its Thief P/D!

Now I don’t want to be rude or derail this thread. Heck I even main thief, and really like playing as, and against thieves. Except for this one. There seems to be no honor in this playstyle. Especially in WvW with the condition food.

I hope some players can give you great strategies, and perhaps clear things up for me aswell. As I think its probably a L2P issue combined with it being quite annoyingly mobile.

I don’t mind talking about if P/D is a nice weapon set to pick and about the pros and cons of this weapon set. I want to talk about it and receive advice, suggestions and ideas. So don’t worry.

No honour in this play style? A funny way to put it. Would you also say that SA builds are without honour? I don’t think I get your meaning properly, but let me give you my opinion.

No matter what you play as a thief, D/P, D/D, S/D, P/D… the play style is always in and out, high mobility and kind of dirty Maybe P/D stands out a bit because on top of being hard to catch, the condis just eat away at the health bar of the opponent.

I like P/D, because there are very few P/D thieves as I see it and it is a set which can make use of all skills on the bar. Even BODY SHOT is real great when I need to hold someone who tries to sneak/rush into a tower or when someone is running away. And I can feel that opponents are quite surprised when they face me while roaming. They don’t expect it.

I also like P/D and this build, because I don’t make much use of stealth. I like not doing that. Kind of a personal preference. The dodge spam is quite a lot of fun to me.

All non-thief players and thieves themselves hate a set of the class they don’t like. P/D just happen to be the last set you want to fight in WWW. For most honour is simple zerker period anything of the ordinary is too much #averagePerson

I’m confused on why you are using carrion and worried of your actual sustainability the main point of using a condition build is to last and stack. How is that possible with your toughness and low condition clearing even with the evades? It feels awkward not using sneak attack on p/d especially in full passive style.

Trait wise I would still go SA and Bountiful Theft over Ricochet.

As long as there is condi duration food and dire, condi P/D will be considered ez mode by some players including me. If I bump into you in wvw and see +40% condi food, do you think I care about you having a different build than the average or the fact you have carrion instead of dire? No. I will most likely not even bother fighting you.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

As long as there is condi duration food and dire, condi P/D will be considered ez mode by some players including me. If I bump into you in wvw and see +40% condi food, do you think I care about you having a different build than the average or the fact you have carrion instead of dire? No. I will most likely not even bother fighting you.

Going up against a build that you are not prepared to fight can lead to frustration, I know. But the solution to it is to equip accordingly.

I always pay attention to have sufficient condi cleanses with any build that I run. Increased condi duration is no problem in that case. Maybe you should try that one out yourself?

Sagat.3285:

I’m confused on why you are using carrion and worried of your actual sustainability the main point of using a condition build is to last and stack. How is that possible with your toughness and low condition clearing even with the evades? It feels awkward not using sneak attack on p/d especially in full passive style.

Trait wise I would still go SA and Bountiful Theft over Ricochet.

I might chose dire instead. But then I would solely rely on conditions, wouldn’t I?

PAIN RESPONSE and SHADOW STEP are quite sufficient to cleanse conditions periodically for me. I didn’t really have serious problems with conditions so far. Of course against a dedicated condition applier, it will get tough.

Evades are great for survival in my opinion. This way you can also avoid getting hit by conditions and stuns. And I rather evade an attack then just reducing some damage. But of course this is all personal preference. Reducing damage is a fully viable alternative, of course.

I decided not to use sneak attack much because the only condition I would be applying would be bleeds. And that is easily cleansed. I am thinking that if you apply a multitude of conditions, it is more likely that the damaging condition is not cleansed by the opponent. But that doesn’t mean I don’t use it. I usually use CLOAK AND DAGGER, SNEAK ATTACK close to the opponent and then use SHADOW STRIKE.

Bountiful theft I suppose would be preferable to ricochet in PvP and 1vs1 scenarios.

Youkay.5294:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

As long as there is condi duration food and dire, condi P/D will be considered ez mode by some players including me. If I bump into you in wvw and see +40% condi food, do you think I care about you having a different build than the average or the fact you have carrion instead of dire? No. I will most likely not even bother fighting you.

Going up against a build that you are not prepared to fight can lead to frustration, I know. But the solution to it is to equip accordingly.

I always pay attention to have sufficient condi cleanses with any build that I run. Increased condi duration is no problem in that case. Maybe you should try that one out yourself?

I believe what he is trying to say is if he builds prepared for conditions he will be too weak against direct damage which most people expect to encounter. It’s kind of funny in a way but I guess if you don’t run -40% duration food heavy conditions may become a problem that’s the WWW magic in action.

We are digressing here, but building against condi dmg in no ways diminishes your defenses against direct damage. Against direct damage, you just up your armor. That’s it.

Let’s finish this off-topic here. I would really appreciate some constructive contribution.

Please see this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Few-questions-for-you-P-D-thieves/first#post4212594

I think it should answer your questions about builds, runes, condition duration, armor, etc.

Youkay.5294:

Sagat.3285:

I’m confused on why you are using carrion and worried of your actual sustainability the main point of using a condition build is to last and stack. How is that possible with your toughness and low condition clearing even with the evades? It feels awkward not using sneak attack on p/d especially in full passive style.

Trait wise I would still go SA and Bountiful Theft over Ricochet.

I might chose dire instead. But then I would solely rely on conditions, wouldn’t I?

PAIN RESPONSE and SHADOW STEP are quite sufficient to cleanse conditions periodically for me. I didn’t really have serious problems with conditions so far. Of course against a dedicated condition applier, it will get tough.

Evades are great for survival in my opinion. This way you can also avoid getting hit by conditions and stuns. And I rather evade an attack then just reducing some damage. But of course this is all personal preference. Reducing damage is a fully viable alternative, of course.

I decided not to use sneak attack much because the only condition I would be applying would be bleeds. And that is easily cleansed. I am thinking that if you apply a multitude of conditions, it is more likely that the damaging condition is not cleansed by the opponent. But that doesn’t mean I don’t use it. I usually use CLOAK AND DAGGER, SNEAK ATTACK close to the opponent and then use SHADOW STRIKE.

Bountiful theft I suppose would be preferable to ricochet in PvP and 1vs1 scenarios.

carrion isn’t bad, but power isn’t that great without precision and ferocity, which you do not have. Vitality and toughness however, scale with eachother,as well as heals, so thats Why I prefer dire.

I just farmed a dire set and am playing a condition class for the first time. It’s really nice having 2.9k armor. I highly recommend taking 10 out of DA and put 10 in shadow arts for either the blind, or the condi removal in stealth (i prefer the blind, but run 4 in SA for both). Also, as somebody else said I recommend going bountiful theft over ricochet. Sometimes I use Long reach in this slot for fun and catching stragglers in WvW. But 10sec of vigor and 2 boon rips is is very strong (removes boons and gives to you, so a 4 boon swing). If you plan on doing a lot of 1v3’s ricochet may be better actually.

And don’t listen to people kittening about p/d thieves. The point of Gw2 imo is to find broken specs, lol. At least that’s the fun of it to me. Also, its not so much p/d weaponset that is overpowered- it’s dire and on some classes soldiers gear that is way to efficient (and zerker in Pve). Vit+Toughness is just so good to have in wvw and frustrating to fight against with all the heals being thrown out there. Also, how fighting 95% of a fight in stealth is more honorable baffles me

Youkay.5294:

We are digressing here, but building against condi dmg in no ways diminishes your defenses against direct damage. Against direct damage, you just up your armor. That’s it.

Let’s finish this off-topic here. I would really appreciate some constructive contribution.

:D wow what about blind,cc,chill,protection,weakness…

All I am saying is I don’t see P/D working without sneak attack.

Youkay.5294:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

As long as there is condi duration food and dire, condi P/D will be considered ez mode by some players including me. If I bump into you in wvw and see +40% condi food, do you think I care about you having a different build than the average or the fact you have carrion instead of dire? No. I will most likely not even bother fighting you.

Going up against a build that you are not prepared to fight can lead to frustration, I know. But the solution to it is to equip accordingly.

I always pay attention to have sufficient condi cleanses with any build that I run. Increased condi duration is no problem in that case. Maybe you should try that one out yourself?

If increased condi duration is no problem for people with condi cleanses, why do you use the food then? Every single condi thief uses same food just as they use dire because with these two, P/D is faceroll to play.

So far I’ve seen only one thief on these forums actually say he plays condi P/D cos he would use anything that gives him the most advantage. Everyone else wraps the reasoning into who much the enjoy the playstyle and how fun it is. It’s simple, they want easy wins so they play condi P/D. If direct dmg was buffed today, all these players would run backstab builds tomorrow.

I will not put my time in the game to entertain anyone who chooses condi P/D.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Youkay.5294:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

As long as there is condi duration food and dire, condi P/D will be considered ez mode by some players including me. If I bump into you in wvw and see +40% condi food, do you think I care about you having a different build than the average or the fact you have carrion instead of dire? No. I will most likely not even bother fighting you.

Going up against a build that you are not prepared to fight can lead to frustration, I know. But the solution to it is to equip accordingly.

I always pay attention to have sufficient condi cleanses with any build that I run. Increased condi duration is no problem in that case. Maybe you should try that one out yourself?

If increased condi duration is no problem for people with condi cleanses, why do you use the food then? Every single condi thief uses same food just as they use dire because with these two, P/D is faceroll to play.

So far I’ve seen only one thief on these forums actually say he plays condi P/D cos he would use anything that gives him the most advantage. Everyone else wraps the reasoning into who much the enjoy the playstyle and how fun it is. It’s simple, they want easy wins so they play condi P/D. If direct dmg was buffed today, all these players would run backstab builds tomorrow.

I will not put my time in the game to entertain anyone who chooses condi P/D.

I use P/D because its most effective for me, because I am not pro or super-skilled. I Make mistakes so vitality+toughness is great on me and soldiers gear blows on thieves. That being said, if you’re very skilled- backstab thieves are superior to p/d condi thieves in most situations. 95% of thieves, including myself aren’t good enough to make BS work better than a Dire build.

So I agree that P/D is easier, but if you’re really good Backstab has more potential. Being that you can backstab for 7k and spend most fo your time in stealth with 8 teleports, if you’re having trouble verses p/d as a BS thief, its a L2P issue (I have same issue, backstab is just harder to play).

Tl;dr: P/D isn’t stronger than backstab, it’s easier (dire +ranged). BS builds have more potential, but require a lot of skill to the point where it might seem week. I dont understand how other thieves complain about P/D- as thief is a bullkitten class in general. From the perspective of other classes permastealth BS thieves are just as bullkitten

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

I have absolutely no usefull advice for this build. I’m just here to ask why you want to play P/D?

You seem to have figured it out quite well. And you seem to be a bright and kind guy/lady. But if there is one specific build that I hate the most of all, its Thief P/D!

Now I don’t want to be rude or derail this thread. Heck I even main thief, and really like playing as, and against thieves. Except for this one. There seems to be no honor in this playstyle. Especially in WvW with the condition food.

I hope some players can give you great strategies, and perhaps clear things up for me aswell. As I think its probably a L2P issue combined with it being quite annoyingly mobile.

:D

carrion v dire – you wont benefit enough from the power as you do with toughness
the pistol dmg is the lowest so even with 2k power you wont do much dmg

it might work in pvp and some duels in wvw but if you get stun by hammer warrior you will go down faster than with dire armor

i might go with 0,0,4,4,6 for more condi cleanse blind and bit more toughness

also play what ever suit you

after you master it you will know how to kill one

Cam Ron.4170:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Youkay.5294:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

As long as there is condi duration food and dire, condi P/D will be considered ez mode by some players including me. If I bump into you in wvw and see +40% condi food, do you think I care about you having a different build than the average or the fact you have carrion instead of dire? No. I will most likely not even bother fighting you.

Going up against a build that you are not prepared to fight can lead to frustration, I know. But the solution to it is to equip accordingly.

I always pay attention to have sufficient condi cleanses with any build that I run. Increased condi duration is no problem in that case. Maybe you should try that one out yourself?

If increased condi duration is no problem for people with condi cleanses, why do you use the food then? Every single condi thief uses same food just as they use dire because with these two, P/D is faceroll to play.

So far I’ve seen only one thief on these forums actually say he plays condi P/D cos he would use anything that gives him the most advantage. Everyone else wraps the reasoning into who much the enjoy the playstyle and how fun it is. It’s simple, they want easy wins so they play condi P/D. If direct dmg was buffed today, all these players would run backstab builds tomorrow.

I will not put my time in the game to entertain anyone who chooses condi P/D.

I use P/D because its most effective for me, because I am not pro or super-skilled. I Make mistakes so vitality+toughness is great on me and soldiers gear blows on thieves. That being said, if you’re very skilled- backstab thieves are superior to p/d condi thieves in most situations. 95% of thieves, including myself aren’t good enough to make BS work better than a Dire build.

So I agree that P/D is easier, but if you’re really good Backstab has more potential. Being that you can backstab for 7k and spend most fo your time in stealth with 8 teleports, if you’re having trouble verses p/d as a BS thief, its a L2P issue (I have same issue, backstab is just harder to play).

Tl;dr: P/D isn’t stronger than backstab, it’s easier (dire +ranged). BS builds have more potential, but require a lot of skill to the point where it might seem week. I dont understand how other thieves complain about P/D- as thief is a bullkitten class in general. From the perspective of other classes permastealth BS thieves are just as bullkitten

Very skilled player is always superior to a scrub, no matter the weaponset. Note that I wrote condi P/D with condi duration food and dire. I don’t have any problem with P/D on its own. The QQ hell would fall on these forums if power builds would be given food equivalent to 8 trait points.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Cam Ron.4170:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Youkay.5294:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

As long as there is condi duration food and dire, condi P/D will be considered ez mode by some players including me. If I bump into you in wvw and see +40% condi food, do you think I care about you having a different build than the average or the fact you have carrion instead of dire? No. I will most likely not even bother fighting you.

Going up against a build that you are not prepared to fight can lead to frustration, I know. But the solution to it is to equip accordingly.

I always pay attention to have sufficient condi cleanses with any build that I run. Increased condi duration is no problem in that case. Maybe you should try that one out yourself?

If increased condi duration is no problem for people with condi cleanses, why do you use the food then? Every single condi thief uses same food just as they use dire because with these two, P/D is faceroll to play.

So far I’ve seen only one thief on these forums actually say he plays condi P/D cos he would use anything that gives him the most advantage. Everyone else wraps the reasoning into who much the enjoy the playstyle and how fun it is. It’s simple, they want easy wins so they play condi P/D. If direct dmg was buffed today, all these players would run backstab builds tomorrow.

I will not put my time in the game to entertain anyone who chooses condi P/D.

I use P/D because its most effective for me, because I am not pro or super-skilled. I Make mistakes so vitality+toughness is great on me and soldiers gear blows on thieves. That being said, if you’re very skilled- backstab thieves are superior to p/d condi thieves in most situations. 95% of thieves, including myself aren’t good enough to make BS work better than a Dire build.

So I agree that P/D is easier, but if you’re really good Backstab has more potential. Being that you can backstab for 7k and spend most fo your time in stealth with 8 teleports, if you’re having trouble verses p/d as a BS thief, its a L2P issue (I have same issue, backstab is just harder to play).

Tl;dr: P/D isn’t stronger than backstab, it’s easier (dire +ranged). BS builds have more potential, but require a lot of skill to the point where it might seem week. I dont understand how other thieves complain about P/D- as thief is a bullkitten class in general. From the perspective of other classes permastealth BS thieves are just as bullkitten

Very skilled player is always superior to a scrub, no matter the weaponset. Note that I wrote condi P/D with condi duration food and dire. I don’t have any problem with P/D on its own. The QQ hell would fall on these forums if power builds would be given food equivalent to 8 trait points.

Actually power builds ckittene condition duration to their advantage. Bowl of sweet and spicy beans is good just most don’t take advantage like stacking weakness,chill,vulnerable especially immobilize. You don’t have to get pure stats just saying.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Very skilled player is always superior to a scrub, no matter the weaponset. Note that I wrote condi P/D with condi duration food and dire. I don’t have any problem with P/D on its own. The QQ hell would fall on these forums if power builds would be given food equivalent to 8 trait points.

Very ignorant. Imagine there was food which would give me 400 condition damage instead. There would be no question if I would choose that or 40% condition duration. Short heavy ticking conditions are better than long light ticking ones due to the many condi rinses there are. If you don’t equip and trait efficiently, have yourself to blame.

>>Short heavy ticking conditions are better than long light ticking ones due to the many condi rinses there are. If you don’t equip and trait efficiently, have yourself to blame.

Better yet then the “hard ticking condition” is more stacks. (Duration helps to add more stacks and Condition damage does not)

With bleeds.

12 stacks at 1000 condi damage is 1166 damage per tick.
8 stacks at 2000 condi damage is 1116 per tick.

Maximizing stacks applied in the shortest period of time rules over all. Needless to say this changes dependent on the amount of cleanse available to an enemy in a given encounter. The more the cleanses available , the greater the weight shifts towards harder ticks.

Very skilled player is always superior to a scrub, no matter the weaponset. Note that I wrote condi P/D with condi duration food and dire. I don’t have any problem with P/D on its own. The QQ hell would fall on these forums if power builds would be given food equivalent to 8 trait points.

Very good player vs very good player I think backstab should win.

Anyway I think food in WvW in general is stupid and would like to see it removed. And the might on dodge +40% endrance regen is stronger than 40% condi duration in my opinion. Only reason I use 36% condi duration food is because I’m broke. If I could afford the dodge food I’d be all over that. I’d be happy if they removed food in general though.

I have taken the contribution about using Dire equipment to heart. Thanks for that.

Also, to use Bountiful Theft instead of Ricochet is really nice in 1vs1 situations. Thanks.

Also thanks for the link to the other thread regarding P/D in general.

Other than that people did their best to divert the topic from its intentional purpose into a QQ about P/D, condition builds, condition food and food in general. Well done…