Guild Wars 2

scabrous.7835:

Since you are nitpicky, let me be to nitpicky as well.

You already were, I don’t care. You’re not man enough to see when you are wrong no amount of arguing is going to change that, or yourself.

Critdamage only applies when you crit, so the buff to the spec is not the full difference in critdamage boost on the amulet.

Runes and sigils do not make a then horrible build top tier now. Your judgment was wrong, it’s that simple, and there’s nothing inherently wrong with being wrong, unless you start defending it like you do. You also wouldn’t miss to jump on the guy like the rest of the pack, do you. Did you ever have the guts to put a build-concept up for critique?

Tree.3916:

So did Leonardo DaVinci invent the helicopter?

http://www.leonardodavincisinventions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/leonardo-da-vinci-helicopter.jpg

or did Louis Breguet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Breguet

or did Igor Sikorsky?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_R-4

All three could lay some claim to being the “inventor the helicopter.” There is a lesson in here, but I doubt the OP will understand it.

You don’t think Leonardo Da Vinci would do the same thing the OP was doing if he were living t the same time as the others?

frans.8092:

Runes and sigils do not make a then horrible build top tier now.

Actually it does. Ele was virtually unplayable before the patch. They ether didn’t do enough damage, or were too squishy to be played. Imagine if the only thief build that did good damage was an all signet thief and you’ll get the picture of the state of the ele. Now, particularly because of the buff to strength runes, D/D ele is seen being played. Denshee plays it in their EU team comp. Top players have said that the strength runes are what was needed to give the D/D ele the “oomph” it needed. It allows the ele to do what it’s best at – an all-rounder class that focuses on consistent damage. This was the role it had before warriors got buffed. A time where everyone complained about eles being an unkillable destruction force.

Now though, they can be better compared to the engie. The engie is similar, but focuses on condition damage.

Ironically, it’s also very good on S/D thieves which preform the same damage-type (consistent damage), but S/D thieves play a different role for the team.

On top of this, because we now see even more cleave damage in team comps (and also more players are using strength runes), evasion-based thieves which focus on stealing boons have become even more attractive. The best weapon setup to fit that bill is S/D. Unfortunately this thread’s base isn’t very constructive to begin with. The real meat of this thread, or the lesson here, is that it sometimes can take just a small push to shift the meta equilibrium.

Chicago Jack.5647:

frans.8092:

Runes and sigils do not make a then horrible build top tier now.

Actually it does. Ele was virtually unplayable before the patch. Now, particularly because of the buff to strength runes, D/D ele is seen being played. Denshee plays it in their EU team comp. Top players have said that the strength runes are what was needed to give the D/D ele the “oomph” it needed. It allows the ele to do what it’s best at – an all-rounder class that focuses on consistent damage. This was the role it had before warriors got buffed. A time where everyone complained about eles being an unkillable destruction force.

Now though, they can be better compared to the engie. The engie is similar, but focuses on condition damage.

Ironically, it’s also very good on S/D thieves which preform the same damage-type (consistent damage), but S/D thieves play a different role for the team.

True, but he’s not using Strength. I don’t see much might in his build so I am not sure how it would help his build. S/D doesn’t get a lot of might so Strength doesn’t appear to help it much. Unless it’s duration bonus is applied to stolen Might as well.

frans.8092:

Chicago Jack.5647:

frans.8092:

Runes and sigils do not make a then horrible build top tier now.

Actually it does. Ele was virtually unplayable before the patch. Now, particularly because of the buff to strength runes, D/D ele is seen being played. Denshee plays it in their EU team comp. Top players have said that the strength runes are what was needed to give the D/D ele the “oomph” it needed. It allows the ele to do what it’s best at – an all-rounder class that focuses on consistent damage. This was the role it had before warriors got buffed. A time where everyone complained about eles being an unkillable destruction force.

Now though, they can be better compared to the engie. The engie is similar, but focuses on condition damage.

Ironically, it’s also very good on S/D thieves which preform the same damage-type (consistent damage), but S/D thieves play a different role for the team.

True, but he’s not using Strength. I don’t see much might in his build so I am not sure how it would help his build. S/D doesn’t get a lot of might so Strength doesn’t appear to help it much. Unless it’s duration bonus is applied to stolen Might as well.

Only 1 stack of might is necessary to make strength runes more useful than almost every other direct damage runeset. I have no clue if the might duration works on stolen might, I’d guess it does, but it doesn’t really matter when the profs that do might stacking are getting each stack of might for 30+ seconds from battle and blast finishers.

Between the zerker amulet and strength runes alone with a 50% fury uptime from TotC, prior to taking might stacks you’re looking at around a 15% increase in damage overall from what the OP was saying the build would be capable of a year ago.

When also taking into account sigil of air, which procs every 3-4 seconds and being able to combine that with fire which procs every 5-6 seconds, as opposed to only fire like prior to the april patch, and you’re looking at a further increase in damage the build is capable of.

I’ve seen other people pointing out that the build lacked damage, and sizer just happens to be the notable person that took advantage of the power creep introduced in the april patch and combined it with the 2/0/0/6/6 spread while also being on the team that won the ToL.

Off topic but people talking about strength runes are behind the meta…. there are birds everywhere right now haha.

Tree.3916:

So did Leonardo DaVinci invent the helicopter?

http://www.leonardodavincisinventions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/leonardo-da-vinci-helicopter.jpg

or did Louis Breguet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Breguet

or did Igor Sikorsky?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_R-4

All three could lay some claim to being the “inventor the helicopter.” There is a lesson in here, but I doubt the OP will understand it.

And it’s called the helicopter, not “Da Vinci’s flying machine” or “Breguet’s flier” or whatever. Yet, on the other hand, the GW2 community calls the 20066 build “Sizer’s build”, not just “20066 S/D thief” (which I would be perfectly fine with) or whatever.

There’s a significant difference between your example and what I’m saying in this post.

Arganthium.5638:

Secondly, I’ve seen Sizer play. I’m not massively impressed with him, but I would say he’s better than your average thief.That being said, just because he plays a build does not mean it belongs to him.
It might not be serious to you people, but this build is my intellectual property. I created it, and to say that Sizer owns it is not only wrong but extremely offensive.

Alright, I’ve watched sizer play for a long time and he has been running this build for a long time now, before the whole S/p craze and now it’s back again due to strength runes.
Honestly if you feel you wholeheartedly own the entire rights to this build that sizer has been playing for quite some time now, fight him. That’s right, fight him for it. If your “not impressed”, fight him. If you created this build so long ago, you must feel you’re better so prove it. I find that as a simple way to dignify it as “your own”.

Remember your post 5 months ago on the Thief “Post Your Build Thread”….

Arganthium.5638:

Here’s my current build/playstyle, just in accordance with the current state of the thief. Attachments: https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/126508/Dr.-Who.gif

Just thought I should remind you

“I don’t always post on threads…..but when I do, I prefer being mischievous….stay QQ my friend” Copyright and Trademark of KumaSama

Wildstar is down for 2 hours, needed to check gw2 forums for some comedy, of course I’m not let down. You guys are arguing like your going to be remembered in a history book for whoever created the 20066 acrobats build.

Shockwave.1230:

frans.8092:

Chicago Jack.5647:

frans.8092:

Runes and sigils do not make a then horrible build top tier now.

Actually it does. Ele was virtually unplayable before the patch. Now, particularly because of the buff to strength runes, D/D ele is seen being played. Denshee plays it in their EU team comp. Top players have said that the strength runes are what was needed to give the D/D ele the “oomph” it needed. It allows the ele to do what it’s best at – an all-rounder class that focuses on consistent damage. This was the role it had before warriors got buffed. A time where everyone complained about eles being an unkillable destruction force.

Now though, they can be better compared to the engie. The engie is similar, but focuses on condition damage.

Ironically, it’s also very good on S/D thieves which preform the same damage-type (consistent damage), but S/D thieves play a different role for the team.

True, but he’s not using Strength. I don’t see much might in his build so I am not sure how it would help his build. S/D doesn’t get a lot of might so Strength doesn’t appear to help it much. Unless it’s duration bonus is applied to stolen Might as well.

Only 1 stack of might is necessary to make strength runes more useful than almost every other direct damage runeset. I have no clue if the might duration works on stolen might, I’d guess it does, but it doesn’t really matter when the profs that do might stacking are getting each stack of might for 30+ seconds from battle and blast finishers.

Fury oriented runes maybe, Scholar still? Anyway, the +7% don’t turn any ‘horrible’ S/D into a top-tier when the better damage builds profit the same way and become even better. And, it wasn’t like there were no similar +damage runes before the patch.

Between the zerker amulet and strength runes alone with a 50% fury uptime from TotC, prior to taking might stacks you’re looking at around a 15% increase in damage overall from what the OP was saying the build would be capable of a year ago.

The only thing that changed in that list was Ferocity and the runes – and only the amulet change would benefit the build more then other builds. The Stength runes, the fury, they all would benefit all direct damage builds, before and after, and not exclusively this S/D build

When also taking into account sigil of air,

Does the same for all builds with decent critical hit, but the x/6/x/x/x builds benefit more from it actually.

… which procs every 3-4 seconds

It doesn’t actually, despite the cooldown being stated as 3 second, it look to be closer to 5s. Sometimes testing stuff > tooltips & wiki

I’ve seen other people pointing out that the build lacked damage, and sizer just happens to be the notable person that took advantage of the power creep ..

All power builds benefit, thus better builds become even better. Or maybe that ‘bad’ build wasn’t all that bad.

frans.8092:

-snip-
Or maybe that ‘bad’ build wasn’t all that bad.

I’m not saying it was a bad build, maybe relative to builds leading up to its use now it was bad, but with the current meta s/d acro trickery is the best thief build in my opinion.

I’m just highlighting things that other people are saying that I agree with, and the reason I agree with them is a simple concept in math that you can apply when power creep happens.

Let’s say there are numeric values associated with the damage of acro, trickery and critical, trickery.
Acro, trickery is 75
Critical, trickery is 100

Now add in a power creep of 25

Acro, trickery is 100
Critical, trickery is 125

It’s the same effect right? If you look on the surface yes, but when you have a deeper understanding you realize the relative power has changed. So no its not the same impact.

In our examples critical strikes was originally 33% more powerful than acro, now after power creep it’s only 25% more powerful.

But guess what else, only damage was buffed, not toughness or vitality. Dodges were buffed for a lot of current meta builds due to sigil of energy being more usable, so uncoordimated spike damage is less effective bcs dodges neutralize it and they are more common in the meta.

So basically we had a lot of offensive power creep, meta builds that are better at defending against spike damage, cleave has become unreal in the meta (which isn’t all due to the April patch, but it has its impact), and vitality and toughness are the same as before.

So that 75 that wasn’t adequate that made people want to use the 100 from critical strikes is now at 100, which was adequate. Critics strikes is at 125, but because of more dodges, tankier builds with might stacks, and the crazy cleave damage that’s in the game the survivability from acro is more valuable than the damage from critical strikes.

Tl;Dr
Acro trickery wasn’t as effective in the meta before the April patch as critical strikes acro. We know this because people are indicating they tried it, but clearly critical strikes trickery was found to be more valuable as it was heavily used.