Guild Wars 2

Ran into this build in WvW, he couldn’t kill me but he kept doing the same thing.

1) he was perma stealthed, this went on for about 20 minutes, he was never out of stealth unless he wanted to be.

2) He could load you up with condis really quick, one with a big circular AoE, and another with a trip wire looking trap that rooted you.

3) He would just stay perma-stealthed and repeat this AoE/tripwire combo. Never came out of stealth once.

Is this an exploit? A hacker? Or is it just an OP build? As far as I knew thieves didn’t have literal perma stealth. Wasn’t a problem because I had condi removal and he was going full force coward cheese mode, but still… kind of ridiculous.

He was probably using a build that included Superior Runes of the Trapper, which grants you stealth when you use a trap.

It’s a Bird…It’s a Plane…It’s Super-Thief!

Not sure if trolling.

No Walking.6349:

Ran into this build in WvW, he couldn’t kill me but he kept doing the same thing.

1) he was perma stealthed, this went on for about 20 minutes, he was never out of stealth unless he wanted to be.

2) He could load you up with condis really quick, one with a big circular AoE, and another with a trip wire looking trap that rooted you.

3) He would just stay perma-stealthed and repeat this AoE/tripwire combo. Never came out of stealth once.

Is this an exploit? A hacker? Or is it just an OP build? As far as I knew thieves didn’t have literal perma stealth. Wasn’t a problem because I had condi removal and he was going full force coward cheese mode, but still… kind of ridiculous.

IMO There is no OP build ATM for Thief and yes it’s ridiculous, you can have perma stealth with trapper runes if you use D/P as second set instead of SB (maybe even with SB if you use smoke screen), it’s useful for scouting purposes or if you play in PUG, Party or Zerg and then can cause confusion and distraction among enemies especially if you team up with a mesmer or another thief but alone if focused strictly on remaining in stealth he really should not be able to kill anyone, needle traps alone without stacked bleeding from pistol burst won’t do it… P/D condi thief with trapper runes to be able to duel well should use stealth after dropping a trap to fire the burst that stacks bleeding on enemies and it breaks stealth, dropping traps won’t break stealth, you get stealth and super speed each time you drop them…
This is test I made with my trapper thief today ( I play trapper, condi thief and new meta D/P depending on my mood… ) so you can see how it works:
https://youtu.be/Ib48f1uCvJA

The AoE is caltrops, the tripwire immob is needle trap. Solution: use a stun/immob break and don’t stand in the caltrops. Also, if you have condi cleanse, he should be able to kill you with just a few bleeds and poison from those two skills.

I was just playing around with an older build to see if it works post-patch. And this does not use Trapper’s Runes, so you can run it in sPvP if you want to troll :-P

If I payed attention to my cooldowns, I could stay permanently stealth using this as my bare minimum…

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-g3RV;1Rw-_0M5;9;9KM;114Z

Dagger/Pistol

Shadow Arts:
Concealed Defeat
Meld with Shadows
Hidden Thief

Trickster:
Kleptomaniac
Preparedness

Heal:
Hide in Shadows

Utility:
Shadow Refuge

It cuts close, but it’s doable. In order to get more time, I usually use the Smoke Screen utility in order to get more Heartseeker stealthing instead of Black Powder from the pistol.

In fact, after some more testing, I managed to stay permanently stealthed using only Steal, Hide in Shadows, and Smoke Screen + Cluster Bomb with a shortbow.

If you add other traits like Sleight of Hand (in conjunction with Hidden Thief) and Cloaked in Shadow (if you can find a place to take falling damage), that would give you more stealth up-time without sacrificing utilities. Or you could add Blinding Powder to your utility bar.

Doing damage while permanently stealthed is not easy, though. You’re limited to the Uncatchable (Caltops on dodge) and Trapper’s Respite (Needle Trap on heal) traits, runes effects, and non-direct- damaging utilities (traps, Caltrops, Thieves Guild, etc.).

It certainly isn’t a killing machine, but it can be VERY annoying. All the enemy sees are red circles of varying sizes… and long, rectangular outlines for Smoke Screen and tripped traps. It’s especially nice to run Ambush or Thieves Guild and have visible thieves take their attention while you run around freely :-P

Ps. There are other tweaks and enhancements you can run on the build to make it even better and easier, but the above is the basis. You could use something like this to be very annoying…

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-g3RV;1Rw-_0M5oOkd0;9;4KMI;0147047237;4UZk68;1fgm9fgm91h

PPs. You could replace Thieves Guild with Basilisk Venom simply to trigger the Krait Rune’s 6th effect more often, though you will never actually strike the opponent.

HAPPY TROLLING!!! :-D

Yeap, this sounds like a zerg diving troll build i use for scouting and trolling for laughs. Its quite easy to get 100% stealth uptime especially with ppl around to steal from and proc improv reset for traps or heal. If improv does not proc then you have to be more carefull a while, bit with some utilities up you can just be close to enemy all the time dodging for caltrops. And there is no need for p/d imo. You can get more then enough condi pressure with confusion on steal, traps and caltrops with d/p staying in stealth, just lock em down and let em bleed out. And if you want, you can get some interrupts in for torment, (ofc then you will be out of stealth)….. But yeah, the build is cheeeeeese and should be banned forever..

They need to bring trapper runes to spvp…

I been running this build and it’s kind of funny. PU Mesmer is still better tho.

swinsk.6410:

They need to bring trapper runes to spvp…

I love to trap runes in WvW and dont use “Perma Stealth”. Why do you want break the game for me? Annet just need fix “perma stealth” way.

Nabaro.5726:

swinsk.6410:

They need to bring trapper runes to spvp…

I love to trap runes in WvW and dont use “Perma Stealth”. Why do you want break the game for me? Annet just need fix “perma stealth” way.

So you like using trapper runes but you dont want to get stealthed by it ? Okay, seems legit.

Ive seen this build and do use a variation, however ive encountered one in WvW that seemed to be able to pile on the condis faster than I could. The setup I think it is (as I cannto find it online) is something like this, or with trailblazers stats for condi duration (this one Im linking is dire).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoaVlsMh2mY1Tw7Jw+EHyElePniAwvFjxHyzhW4GA-T1xCQBASfwGV+5J1fC3+DrUJIAeEAH7MAQKAImGB-w

Playing something similar there too much of a cooldown period between condi bursts (heal/steal, then drop trap and dodge and dodge on top of them for the caltrops and move away to restealth). You literally have to wait a while to start your burst again, leaving lots of time to heal/cleanse.

One player I saw (or didn’t) in WvW did something similar (or so I believe) however his bursts were not as far in between and far more effective. Can anyone maybe look at this build and see if there is any other way to squeeze more condis or decrease the burst time?

swinsk.6410:

They need to bring trapper runes to spvp…

I been running this build and it’s kind of funny. PU Mesmer is still better tho.

Got to love when people don’t know the game, Trapper runes have always been in PvP since the 2014 feature pack……

You do not need Runes of Trapper for this build. You can get more spike damage from alternate runes and rely primarily on d/p for stealth. Since you are not using d/p in any way to attack all ini can go to stealth.

If you want to load spike Conditions do this.

Use an Asura.

Trait with Perplexity runes. Load up HIS as heal along with pain inverter caltrops and needle trap. Trait SA taking hidden thief and DA for the trappers respite along with trickery for uncatchable and BA.

Drop a needle trap and maintain stealth with d/p . It preferable to use the TRAP from your heal here and this can be dropped ahead of time. When a person steps in it load the needle trap and steal to the enemy right away. Use your Pain inverter and your heal in quick sequence and drop caltrops.

Initial needle trap gets poison + 3 bleed. Followup steal applies a second needle trap for poison + 3 bleed along with 5 confusion off BA and 2 poison off the steal. Pain inverter adds 3 confusion. The heal adds 3 confusion and another needle trap. (If that heal off its cooldown) . Then there those caltrops.

Now this is if you want to do it all in one big burst. You can stagger these bursts so as to force a cleanse early and than apply another. If you use a rune other than trappper you can have a build with two high bursts that can be used in sequence.

This obviously a theoretical best case scenario. In most cases the target will react in some way which will change how you respond in kind.

babazhook.6805:

You do not need Runes of Trapper for this build. You can get more spike damage from alternate runes and rely primarily on d/p for stealth. Since you are not using d/p in any way to attack all ini can go to stealth.

If you want to load spike Conditions do this.

Use an Asura.

Trait with Perplexity runes. Load up HIS as heal along with pain inverter caltrops and needle trap. Trait SA taking hidden thief and DA for the trappers respite along with trickery for uncatchable and BA.

Drop a needle trap and maintain stealth with d/p . It preferable to use the TRAP from your heal here and this can be dropped ahead of time. When a person steps in it load the needle trap and steal to the enemy right away. Use your Pain inverter and your heal in quick sequence and drop caltrops.

Initial needle trap gets poison + 3 bleed. Followup steal applies a second needle trap for poison + 3 bleed along with 5 confusion off BA and 2 poison off the steal. Pain inverter adds 3 confusion. The heal adds 3 confusion and another needle trap. (If that heal off its cooldown) . Then there those caltrops.

Now this is if you want to do it all in one big burst. You can stagger these bursts so as to force a cleanse early and than apply another. If you use a rune other than trappper you can have a build with two high bursts that can be used in sequence.

This obviously a theoretical best case scenario. In most cases the target will react in some way which will change how you respond in kind.

Have you seen the video of the Mesmer that kept AA’ing a Yak while loaded up with confusion? Or all the threads about this the players don’t react …..

It’s a crap build that is horrible for killing people, but based on all the threads and videos I have seen on this there is no helping the players that die to it. Now this does not include people that get tanked by 3-5 of these Thieves there is no helping that.

Yes this build shouldn’t exist but it does and has for years. Woo

BlaqueFyre.5678:

babazhook.6805:

You do not need Runes of Trapper for this build. You can get more spike damage from alternate runes and rely primarily on d/p for stealth. Since you are not using d/p in any way to attack all ini can go to stealth.

If you want to load spike Conditions do this.

Use an Asura.

Trait with Perplexity runes. Load up HIS as heal along with pain inverter caltrops and needle trap. Trait SA taking hidden thief and DA for the trappers respite along with trickery for uncatchable and BA.

Drop a needle trap and maintain stealth with d/p . It preferable to use the TRAP from your heal here and this can be dropped ahead of time. When a person steps in it load the needle trap and steal to the enemy right away. Use your Pain inverter and your heal in quick sequence and drop caltrops.

Initial needle trap gets poison + 3 bleed. Followup steal applies a second needle trap for poison + 3 bleed along with 5 confusion off BA and 2 poison off the steal. Pain inverter adds 3 confusion. The heal adds 3 confusion and another needle trap. (If that heal off its cooldown) . Then there those caltrops.

Now this is if you want to do it all in one big burst. You can stagger these bursts so as to force a cleanse early and than apply another. If you use a rune other than trappper you can have a build with two high bursts that can be used in sequence.

This obviously a theoretical best case scenario. In most cases the target will react in some way which will change how you respond in kind.

Have you seen the video of the Mesmer that kept AA’ing a Yak while loaded up with confusion? Or all the threads about this the players don’t react …..

It’s a crap build that is horrible for killing people, but based on all the threads and videos I have seen on this there is no helping the players that die to it. Now this does not include people that get tanked by 3-5 of these Thieves there is no helping that.

Yes this build shouldn’t exist but it does and has for years. Woo

Indeed. A person nominally aware of his surroundings and of the build in question will generally not die to it. When people claim it because "trapper runes OP’ or that it due to “No reveal on traps” it suggests they do not understand the build and what makes it tick and are reacting in a knee jerk fashion.

One thing I would suggest to anybody is make one of these builds your yourself and go out and try it so we do not have to deal with nonsense about “op trapper runes” and calls for fixes that narrow build choices.

I can confirm that it can be done without trapper runes, but you only need d/p, smokescreen and possibly either SR or BP with other condi runes (krait/nightmare). I still used traps but didn’t NEED them. SA may not have been needed but it helps greatly when not using trapper runes.

Tested in PvP and WvW

How is it an OP build if he couldn’t kill you and simply annoyed you?

Silverbolt.2301:

How is it an OP build if he couldn’t kill you and simply annoyed you?

It’s “Op” because of stealth……… That’s most players mentality yet they run around with Passives carrying them from playing badly.

Let me get this strait, you think that a thief is OP because of stealth, when it is literally the only trully defensive abuility that a thief has. Let me remind you that without that stealth you would have killed him in maybe two or three hits because he has 11000-12000 hp, and almost not toughness, no stability, very little healing power. Also, let me remind you that because he is strictly condi, his Stealth attacks, do nearly nothing against you, and by chance if he was running a hybrid build and they DID do anything to you, he has to land it every time or else he will pretty much be stunned for 1 second. If he cannot kill you the most you can say about his build is that he was annoying. you know what thieves find annoying? Everything. Because everything is stronger than them right now.

emkelly.2371:

Let me get this strait, you think that a thief is OP because of stealth, when it is literally the only trully defensive abuility that a thief has. Let me remind you that without that stealth you would have killed him in maybe two or three hits because he has 11000-12000 hp, and almost not toughness, no stability, very little healing power. Also, let me remind you that because he is strictly condi, his Stealth attacks, do nearly nothing against you, and by chance if he was running a hybrid build and they DID do anything to you, he has to land it every time or else he will pretty much be stunned for 1 second. If he cannot kill you the most you can say about his build is that he was annoying. you know what thieves find annoying? Everything. Because everything is stronger than them right now.

This reply must be one of the worst replies I’ve read around here.

You think this build has 11kHP? Like they don’t run Full Dire? For the pancies that run this build, they will make sure that if anything ever manages to reveal them, they still have the toughness and vitality to run. Try two-shotting something with 21kHP and 3k toughness. Little healing power? Hello Shadow Arts. You can’t even AoE the kitten out of him while he is in stealth because of the 50% dmg reduction in stealth.

Thief only has 1 truly defensive ability? What about ports? An incredible amount of dodges? Blinds? More evades on weapon skills? Obviously, real thieves have to rely on their reflexes a lot more then other classes to stay alive, because core thief is glassy. This cancer is not, though.

His stealth attacks do nothing to you? How did you stay alive this long IRL? The whole idea of this cancerous build is to never leave stealth.

Literally the only somewhat true thing you’ve stated here is that thieves are having a hard time right now. But in WvW, a lot of thieves do quite well in any situation.

This Perma-stealth thing is not just annoying, it is made solely for trolling and will in fact work on you if you somehow don’t have supernatural awareness of your surroundings (because how do you see something that can stealth from a mile away and walk up to you?) and weren’t packing enough condi removal. Even if it only catches the less-skilled, a build like this, which pretty much has no real counter (other then not dying to it, which can’t seriously be thought of as a counter), should be removed from the game. Entirely. Condi thief without this insane cheese is strong enough as is.

Now, don’t get me wrong, this build is not OP, not even powerful. I also do not know how to fix it. It is just a sad realisation that it exists.

Cygnus.6903:

emkelly.2371:

Let me get this strait, you think that a thief is OP because of stealth, when it is literally the only trully defensive abuility that a thief has. Let me remind you that without that stealth you would have killed him in maybe two or three hits because he has 11000-12000 hp, and almost not toughness, no stability, very little healing power. Also, let me remind you that because he is strictly condi, his Stealth attacks, do nearly nothing against you, and by chance if he was running a hybrid build and they DID do anything to you, he has to land it every time or else he will pretty much be stunned for 1 second. If he cannot kill you the most you can say about his build is that he was annoying. you know what thieves find annoying? Everything. Because everything is stronger than them right now.

This reply must be one of the worst replies I’ve read around here.

You think this build has 11kHP? Like they don’t run Full Dire? For the pancies that run this build, they will make sure that if anything ever manages to reveal them, they still have the toughness and vitality to run. Try two-shotting something with 21kHP and 3k toughness. Little healing power? Hello Shadow Arts. You can’t even AoE the kitten out of him while he is in stealth because of the 50% dmg reduction in stealth.

Thief only has 1 truly defensive ability? What about ports? An incredible amount of dodges? Blinds? More evades on weapon skills? Obviously, real thieves have to rely on their reflexes a lot more then other classes to stay alive, because core thief is glassy. This cancer is not, though.

His stealth attacks do nothing to you? How did you stay alive this long IRL? The whole idea of this cancerous build is to never leave stealth.

Literally the only somewhat true thing you’ve stated here is that thieves are having a hard time right now. But in WvW, a lot of thieves do quite well in any situation.

This Perma-stealth thing is not just annoying, it is made solely for trolling and will in fact work on you if you somehow don’t have supernatural awareness of your surroundings (because how do you see something that can stealth from a mile away and walk up to you?) and weren’t packing enough condi removal. Even if it only catches the less-skilled, a build like this, which pretty much has no real counter (other then not dying to it, which can’t seriously be thought of as a counter), should be removed from the game. Entirely. Condi thief without this insane cheese is strong enough as is.

Now, don’t get me wrong, this build is not OP, not even powerful. I also do not know how to fix it. It is just a sad realisation that it exists.

50% damage reduction? Try again it’s only 25%.

It is broke and it isn’t OP unless it is a 2+ of them.

Something to keep in mind: the most effective version of this build does not use Trapper runes and really only uses one trap. Typically plex or torment runes. It is also a bunker build that typically uses Bound, Heart Seeker and Black Powder to stay perma-stealthed.

The Trapper Condi build is junk… the Ghost Thief minimal trap variant is dangerous particularly in numbers or as support.

Neither are correct.
25% SA 10% Dash 10% food.

Which really is .75 * .9 * .9 = .6075 or roughly 39% reduced damage.

DeceiverX.8361:

Neither are correct.
25% SA 10% Dash 10% food.

Which really is .75 * .9 * .9 = .6075 or roughly 39% reduced damage.

I wasn’t factoring in food and neither was he as far as I can tell.

DeceiverX.8361:

Neither are correct.
25% SA 10% Dash 10% food.

Which really is .75 * .9 * .9 = .6075 or roughly 39% reduced damage.

A Ghost thief will not take the DD line. It does nothing for them. They need SA , DA and Trickery.

For food they more likley to take duration for conditions.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

50% damage reduction? Try again it’s only 25%.

You are right, my mistake. Still, with all the toughness, the original statement remains the same.

I fought one of these yesterday. I was trying to take Umber, and it was being defended by a decently good engi and this thief.

My overall impression was that the thief wasn’t able to do anything by himself. He couldn’t kill me, he couldn’t contest the point, and all he was able to do was put out just enough pressure to help the engi stay alive. Playing a bit better I might have been able to kill the engi even with him doing his thing.

Quite honestly, there are much stronger condition builds available. My greatest disappointment is that I can’t see these poor players and offer them advice on a stronger build.

As a piece of advice for fighting thief traps in general: watch for a little poof/graphical effect and the sound of the trap being laid. I saw multiple times where the traps were and I dodged through them to negate them while taking no damage.

And if you can, save an interrupt for when they come out of stealth for half a moment. If you can stop them from using their HS after they BP you can shut them out of most of their stealth stacking. This assumes they are not being careful and end up visible for brief moments.

And yeah, no condi thief can afford to not take condi food when they are running food. Too much anti-condi food, etc, out there to not use it.

WARNING: Long post

Since I’m bored with it, here you all go…may you go out and get this nerfed for the day is near I think. But I think the nerf will actually be that applying conditions to structures while in stealth which will then reveal is honestly the most broken aspect of the most recent changes for WvW. Well that and perma-invisibility in general since you pick your fights on your own terms and bail when you want but that’s for another time…

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQRAoa4alsMhymYbTwoJw+EHyElePniAwvFjxHyHhW4GA-T1hHQBYUJYb0PgQlfOb/hFp+DAeCA06kAEAABYmlZZWmBDdoDdoDdoNzZOzZOzZWGgq1A-w

Build choices
No Daredevil. There’s a very important reason here if you use Caltrops trait. You can dodge (activating Caltrops) and then emote (i.e. use /sit) and the dodge animation will end right on top of where you began the dodge roll. This allows you to place Caltrop bleed stacks over and over very easily (at the cost of endurance) right on top of the target. Daredevil dodge traits do not allow you to use emotes.

Why the same weapon set in both slots? Simple, you don’t need anything else and Geomancy doesn’t remove Stealth. Spam your weapon swap and you’ll always have the correct weapon set to Pistol 5, Dagger 2 again and again for perma stealth (do this away from your target). Sucks to lack Shortbow for travel but guess what, keep it in your inventory and swap weapons as soon as you enter your hunting grounds.

Why Dire? Because it is all about spiking opponents with conditions (Full Trailblazer, the only other logical choice, is something I knew wouldn’t work better after using this build in real game terms). Everyone (even those “bad” players) can remember to see a condition on them and use their cleansing abilities. Trailblazer is a DPS increase but a burst decrease so it’s a no-go. It’s OK – it actually hurts the pocket book anyway.

3100 armor and 22K health means you can survive random spike AoE, stand in it to stomp and survive the occasion lucky soul that breaks your stealth for the next 5s-6s.

Why Hidden Thief? Because I want to always have maximum movement speed. The stealth on steal is not the critical part of the trait choice (although very nice added benefit).

Bountiful Theft is a no brainer if you don’t spam Steal. Pressure Striking doesn’t work well for the builds that you wouldn’t beat anyways. Sleight of Hand is a decent alternative but requires you to pay more attention. Nothing else remaining in the build probably needs explaining but let me know.

The key to killing
The key to the killing an enemy is traps do not disappear for minutes after you set them. This allows you to set an ambush trap (swap the utility with trip wire, use it, then swap back) as part of the trap spike. Place everything all right on top of each other. Once you “find” those common choke point or run up the path from Keep to SMC paths or kill the Sentry/take the camp and place it near the veterans (yes, evil), just wait for the bait to come spots, you now have basically mastered 90% of this spec.

Once the target triggers the traps, then get Thieves Guild up and use Spider Venom (thanks to ANet for making this build more terribly overpowered by allowing venom share for anyone including minions…woot!) Even better if you have friends/NPCs who don’t use Stealth nearby. Then lay down your traps again (use the Hide in Shadows/Needle Trap is usually the key so use Steal to make sure you place it right by using at the very end of the cast time)…by the way, the targets are typically running/teleporting by this point so it’s almost exactly on timing with when you need it. Follow up with Trip Wire/Swap Weapon/Caltrops (if needed). Now go renew your stealth uptime and watch. If the target gets away, set up again. You’ll be surprised how much damage this does to a target in short order – I know I was.

By the way, if you couldn’t tell, the #1 way to stomp is to do it from stealth and since you have poison stacking basically non-stop, wait for the right time (don’t lose your stealth). Be smart – it’s more important to stay in stealth than kill your target otherwise you’ll have lots of nasty emails in your inbox.

The skill part…hold onto Steal because of Bountiful Theft.

/ end part 1

/ begin part 2

How to Play
I recommend using it on common areas that players run through (like right on top of the Sentry guards all over WvW – this also gives you a wonderful Veteran “minion” to help you kill your target).

Counter points demystified and brought back to reality
People talk about how this build can’t kill anyone not afk. That’s BS. This build works for soft targets, it works for camp taking, this works really well if you want to just tagging keeps/towers (thanks to conditions now doing damage to structures), this does kill veteran mobs with basically zero chance of you dying just like most WvW builds (but better), this kills any build that wants to try to take an objective or stay in one area (why PU mesmer works for dueling so well).

The bane of the build
You need to consciously train yourself that being in stealth is more important than getting the stomp or attacking. You die in this build if you overextend and that is 100% your fault. FYI Stealth detection is laughable in this game. Even if some remote possibility that you are swarmed by a Sneak Gyro Scrapper or a Glint Revenant (you see both a mile away), just avoid them. Even then, many players don’t react appropriately or use the stealth detection at the wrong time since they have no idea where you are.

The #1 argument against this build will be how do you make people attack your Thieves Guild and Ambush Thief (from the trap) to apply the Spider Venom hits (plus the minion damage). I don’t know. It works very often. People have an instinct to either flee (teleport immediately once they realize they are a victim) or attack whatever is in front of them. If they do the latter, the whole minion gang joins in. However, that’s why I suggest setting this up near a Sentry Guard where that target is guaranteed to be hitting something so that they all attack. If a target runs after the immobilize/knockdown and has decent sustain, there is nothing you can do – sound familiar? It happens more frequent than not with a lot of builds that can ignore the gank/burst damage pressure (but see below).

The #2 argument is people will state is ‘well, anyone can beat another player if they have a set of veteran guards around them’. That’s BS too. WvWers can solo camps/sentries non-stop. That’s the point of /trolling. You are denying that player(s) from taking the objectives and getting your inner smile on. Any other build would see the veterans plus a player and run away and/or get help. With this build, good luck. You might try but you’ll need to bring two+ more buddies with you. No other build in the game can do that level of annoyance (not even PU condi mesmers which are subject to cds and can be seen beforehand).

/done

How can you deny the other player the point while invisible?

Artaz.3819:

WARNING: Long post

The key to killing
The key to the killing an enemy is traps do not disappear for minutes after you set them. This allows you to set an ambush trap (swap the utility with trip wire, use it, then swap back) as part of the trap spike. Place everything all right on top of each other.

Traps disappear when you swap them (after laying them down, swapping that skill slot with another trap) – or have I misunderstood what you were trying to say?

DemonSeed.3528:

Artaz.3819:

WARNING: Long post

The key to killing
The key to the killing an enemy is traps do not disappear for minutes after you set them. This allows you to set an ambush trap (swap the utility with trip wire, use it, then swap back) as part of the trap spike. Place everything all right on top of each other.

Traps disappear when you swap them (after laying them down, swapping that skill slot with another trap) – or have I misunderstood what you were trying to say?

The ambush trap does not disappear after you swap back to another trap.

Do you mean it does not disappear if you swap ambush trap with another trap on same slot? It disappears for me unfortunately this way.

If you drop an ambush trap. then for some reason wait out seconds it takes to recharge (because you cannot swap skills while they are on cooldown) then swap the ampush trap utility skill for another utility skill (any skill that is not already on your bar) the amush trap will disapear. Period. i don’t know where to got your information or if you are exploiting a bug in the system, but i tried it in HotM and it definitely disappears.

emkelly.2371:

If you drop an ambush trap. then for some reason wait out seconds it takes to recharge (because you cannot swap skills while they are on cooldown) then swap the ampush trap utility skill for another utility skill (any skill that is not already on your bar) the amush trap will disapear. Period. i don’t know where to got your information or if you are exploiting a bug in the system, but i tried it in HotM and it definitely disappears.

^ this.

However his mentioned build mention gives purpose to thieves guild. I forgot venoms synergize well with them (and you still stay stealth). So much more damage and I took out a trap to replace with smokescreen where perma stealth is easier (with the reduction in deception, thieves guild is still a long CD of 144 sec, but the condo damage when they are up is real)