Guild Wars 2

Solution to Pistol Pistol Unload Woes: Get initiative.
Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAqa6al0Mp7pVOx3J0PNBQhsVAv/VcY3vatC-TFCEABZ/AASU9ntUCykyvQ2foN9DAcEAe4kAQKgqUGB-w
Video: http://youtu.be/2of_cPpFr-w

As boring as it is sometimes, I have always loved the “look” of a P/P thief and have used it for ages in PvE. It’s just so easy to burst out huge amounts of damage. It’s sad though that it’s not a all viable in WvW or sPvP even with using the blinding tricks.

Interesting, I need to get home to try that trait about gaining initiative on weapon swap. does it work by leaving the second weapon set empty, or do I really need 4 pistols to trigger it?

I wouldn’t call it a solution, really. P/P sacrifices everything to do decent damage, and sacrifices too much damage to do anything else. It’s just a bad set.

I like the creativity.
So I’ll never tell you, your build isn’t viable.
I will however help you brainstorm/tweak it to max effectiveness.

My first suggestion would be to swap uncatchable for thrill of the crime and change current runes to rune of rage for more damage. This build could use some fury.
My guess is you don’t want to spend the money on scholar runes? Cause that would be even better.

Second suggestion: You lack some condi cleanse. I see you have the cure condi on swap. Maybe put Pain response in there or a purity sigil as well for certain condi heavy content. The extra 1 ini traited every 10 seconds is not going to make or break this build.

Let me know what you think.

What this build did at the outset was maximize for initiative generation, the bane of unload centered pistol pistol builds. This build is an easy to learn linear build with room for error. This let’s us start off with a clean slate to take another look at bringing pistol pistol back into meta.

Let’s take a look at better sustain and damage as we suffer from a lack of damage modifiers from traditional builds:
It was brought to my attention that signet of malice (on hit heal) could be reintegrated into this build by swapping out hastened replenishment (on heal initiative gain) for opportunist (chance on crit to regain initiative minor trait) in the critical line.
This results in a slight drop in initiative regeneration, but this build already has enough initiative generation for the highly skilled. As we have a heal skill we do not intend to use in order to build up additional swiftness from rune of the air, we can swap out that rune set.

Thoughts on a new rune set:
If we used runes of rage, this would result in a 60% uptime in fury or a 12% average increase in damage due to 6th rune trait. Or we can add an additional 5 stacks of might from dodging and a stronger addition to our damage by using power instead of ferocity via “Strength” runes. We experience 46% uptime in fury rather than 60% from the rage rune set by swapping in thrill of the crime as requested.

Aside: Uncatchable was included to add cripple to people trying to melee you as we were already dodging frequently, but we will suspend it for now. We are refocusing this build into a cannon.

The build is still hinged on dodging frequently, but as we have a heal skill we cannot take advantage of vigor, we will swap in pain response for some light damage over time condi clear.

We will swap out the 3 condi clears per minute from cleansing sigil for more might stacks via Strength sigil as our might duration is a tremendous 75%.

New build after recommendations:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAqa6al8Mp7pVOx3J0PNBQBtXA8NJFp7XU2VA-TFCEABJ8AASZ/hEV/ZLlgMp8rN9DAcEAe4kAQKgqUGB-w

WvW variant: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAqa6al8Mp7pVOx3J0PNBQBtXA8NJFp7XU2VA-TFCEABJ8AAKUJYK7PElyv40PAp6PAcEAe4kAEAABIsZbGc0je0je0j2RP6RP6NPapAqSZE-w

In practice, you’ll get more Initiative from Opportunist than from Quick Pockets only because swapping weapons has a 10s cooldown.

Doesn’t opportunist have an ICD?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAqa4al0Mp3pdPx4J0PNRORtduFALIXrg3XxXsFA-TpBBwASOCAG3fAwBBoxJAocZAIPAAA Share this with a couple of thieves before and they seem to fancy it, hope you would too.

Einlanzer.1627:

I wouldn’t call it a solution, really. P/P sacrifices everything to do decent damage, and sacrifices too much damage to do anything else. It’s just a bad set.

I really wish that somewhere (in critical strikes or deadly arts) , the devs would add a Master/Grandmaster trait that reduces the ini cost of pistol skill by 1 when dual wielding pistols.

Maybe buff combined training to do something like this? There is just so much utility in the P/P set that I feel you can’t use much without sacrificing a ton of damage for ini management.

roamzero.9486:

Einlanzer.1627:

I wouldn’t call it a solution, really. P/P sacrifices everything to do decent damage, and sacrifices too much damage to do anything else. It’s just a bad set.

I really wish that somewhere (in critical strikes or deadly arts) , the devs would add a Master/Grandmaster trait that reduces the ini cost of pistol skill by 1 when dual wielding pistols.

Maybe buff combined training to do something like this? There is just so much utility in the P/P set that I feel you can’t use much without sacrificing a ton of damage for ini management.

dat perma immob though

I dont like it.
Im playing P/P myself in PvP when Im bored and it is far more effective as expected but this build is a nightmare. No evade and the dmg is really bad.

Maybe Im going to release a video with some scenes how it can look like. I still need to practice with SV 13 and encoding stuff.

roamzero.9486:

Einlanzer.1627:

I wouldn’t call it a solution, really. P/P sacrifices everything to do decent damage, and sacrifices too much damage to do anything else. It’s just a bad set.

I really wish that somewhere (in critical strikes or deadly arts) , the devs would add a Master/Grandmaster trait that reduces the ini cost of pistol skill by 1 when dual wielding pistols.

Maybe buff combined training to do something like this? There is just so much utility in the P/P set that I feel you can’t use much without sacrificing a ton of damage for ini management.

I’ve opined about this a thousand times, but it’s mostly because MH Pistol has retained an under-tuned autoattack from day one. It simply doesn’t do enough damage, so you have to put all of your stock in Unload to manage reasonable DPS, which requires you to all but stand still and not use any utility. It’s under-tuned with P/D as well, but it’s masked by P/D having numerous source of damage built into its utility.

Weapons, especially under the Thief’s Initiative system, require a functional auto-attack to really be usable. I don’t know why this seems to be so hard for the balance team to grasp.

I’m still convinced that the balance team changes from time to time. It’s the only thing I can think of that explains the (ahem…) logic of some of the adjustments they make to classes and skills. Black Powder, for example. I could see either shrinking the AoE or changing pulse timing. IIRC, they did both.

As far as damage vs. initiative, I’m also convinced that concept wasn’t fully thought out. It is logical that all aspects of a Thief’s kit should be equally useful … this is not always the case. Especially for P/P, considering the sacrifices you make on utility and defense, to get workable damage.

exii.8913:

I dont like it.
Im playing P/P myself in PvP when Im bored and it is far more effective as expected but this build is a nightmare. No evade and the dmg is really bad.

Ummm, no evade? o0. How are you coming to this conclusion?

DeceiverX.8361:

Doesn’t opportunist have an ICD?

Oh kitten you’re right.

I’ve been doing okay in PVP with P/P. It’s hard to use, but doable.

This is much better, give it a try if you like: : http://youtu.be/Zwy8Z0vqYXE

Recorded it a couple of weeks back

Nice videos Diva. That exchange with the ranger reflects much my own experience in WvW in that if a power ranger wants to swap fire with a P/p thief they tend to lose and that IP helps in that regard.

Your build almost identical to the one I use in Wvw. The only difference is i took sundering strikes as it builds up a lot of Vulnerability stacks over Inertia and I take Furious retal over signet use. I tend not to use my signets much.

Some times I also go 0/6/0/3/5 just get get that initial high damage when IP up there along with those dodges from feline grace.

babazhook.6805:

Nice videos Diva. That exchange with the ranger reflects much my own experience in WvW in that if a power ranger wants to swap fire with a P/p thief they tend to lose and that IP helps in that regard.

Your build almost identical to the one I use in Wvw. The only difference is i took sundering strikes as it builds up a lot of Vulnerability stacks over Inertia and I take Furious retal over signet use. I tend not to use my signets much.

Some times I also go 0/6/0/3/5 just get get that initial high damage when IP up there along with those dodges from feline grace.

Thanks babaz, well said! P/P thief has a lot of potential specially post IP buff. I’m totally enjoying it, never tried it in wvw though but I assume it wouldn’t be much different there either as far as play style goes. Also, I do use all such skill variants, keep changing and experimenting it and yeah sundering strikes goes perfect with p/p burst