Guild Wars 2

The reason pistol whip was so broken was due to the 100% quickness speed we got. Considering that the last patch quickness was brought down to 50%, can we have our 15% damage back please and thank you.

I’ll advocate any buffs to thiefs, but did 15% really make that much of a difference? I’d be better if they buffed the evade on it and decreased the delay between the initial attack and the flurry, otherwise the auto attack chain is still the way to go.

Rafahil.2857:

I’ll advocate any buffs to thiefs, but did 15% really make that much of a difference? I’d be better if they buffed the evade on it and decreased the delay between the initial attack and the flurry, otherwise the auto attack chain is still the way to go.

It was nerfed because quickness made it very OP, since quickness is nerfed now; logically we should get the damage back. If I’d was to choose I’d obviously want it to work much smoother than it is, but it mainly use it to punish the down and people who res.

rafahil did u know that pistol whip is less dmg per (time) than auto attack? :P u tell me if it made adifference. 15% on 6k dmg is almost an extra 1k dmg. it adds up

Rafahil.2857:

I’ll advocate any buffs to thiefs, but did 15% really make that much of a difference? I’d be better if they buffed the evade on it and decreased the delay between the initial attack and the flurry, otherwise the auto attack chain is still the way to go.

There are traits that cost 20 points that boost damage on a single weapon by… 5%.

There is a commonly used trait in Critical Strikes that boosts damage overall to enemies who have less than 50% health by 20%. It costs 30 points.

Yes, I think it does make a very, very large difference.

If they give us the 15% damage back, with the 5% trait, you can trait for a total of 20% more damage which is quite a lot and will make D/P actually playable again.

issues…wrong not how it works but in essence they do work more together theres a difference to 5% dmg of skill and dmg from weapon so they are different but the 15% makes the 5% get more….

Travlane.5948:

issues…wrong not how it works but in essence they do work more together theres a difference to 5% dmg of skill and dmg from weapon so they are different but the 15% makes the 5% get more….

What? I was talking about “Combined Training” which causes Dual skills to deal 5% more damage, plus the 15% damage buff to the skill is an equal of 20% total.. I don’t know what you’re talking about lol

Rafahil.2857:

I’ll advocate any buffs to thiefs, but did 15% really make that much of a difference? I’d be better if they buffed the evade on it and decreased the delay between the initial attack and the flurry, otherwise the auto attack chain is still the way to go.

15% /base/ damage is huge. It ended up being a 30-35% damage nerf if you count the fact that critical/power adds a percent on the direct portion.

It was about 1245 damage before.
Now it is 1062.

1062 + 1689 (Critical damage bonus.) = 2751
1245 + 1979 (Critical damage bonus.) = 3224
This does not even factor in power. If you add power and critical damage (I just showed you critical damage.) the amount and difference is quite significant.

Yes, it should be un-nerfed. Dancing Dagger should also, for that matter, though not by the full amount. It was nerfed by 50%, it should have only been by 25%.

PW is now call Waving In the Air – and is a form of Tai Chi. It was usable with 100% quickness (although admittedly a tiny bit OP) but to have an ability only made useful with a second ability is not great. Now even with 50% quickness passers by wave back with confused looks on their faces and continue on their way as you’re rooted to the spot in serene enlightenment.

PW sucks even if u add the nerfed 15% dmg because of his slow channeling. so i just like the damage as it is but want a faster cast channeling. anet can remove stun if they need but please
fast
channeling

that’s all

Remove the stun, triple the damage

Hundred blades isn’t OP, why would this be?

Elmuerto.9840:

PW is now call Waving In the Air – and is a form of Tai Chi. It was usable with 100% quickness (although admittedly a tiny bit OP) but to have an ability only made useful with a second ability is not great. Now even with 50% quickness passers by wave back with confused looks on their faces and continue on their way as you’re rooted to the spot in serene enlightenment.

Not only is this funny, but it is a completely apt assessment of what is happening.
So, count me in with those calling for the channeling to be quicker; or not rooted, or something.

A buff to pistol whip would be most welcome.

Elmuerto.9840:

PW is now call Waving In the Air – and is a form of Tai Chi. It was usable with 100% quickness (although admittedly a tiny bit OP) but to have an ability only made useful with a second ability is not great. Now even with 50% quickness passers by wave back with confused looks on their faces and continue on their way as you’re rooted to the spot in serene enlightenment.

You’ve portrayed my point in a comedic sense, thank you!

Shukran.4851:

PW sucks even if u add the nerfed 15% dmg because of his slow channeling. so i just like the damage as it is but want a faster cast channeling. anet can remove stun if they need but please
fast
channeling

that’s all

Please stop posting about the Thief class..

If the PW nerf were revoked, I’d be willing to give S/P another whirl. The quickness nerf hamstrung my S/D build, in a sense, since I’d use Haste for a semblance of a burst.

Now I kinda just hack away at people with my autoattack like I’m chopping wood and teleport all over the place to confuse them. I’m a ninja lumberjack.

Issues.5789:

Elmuerto.9840:

PW is now call Waving In the Air – and is a form of Tai Chi. It was usable with 100% quickness (although admittedly a tiny bit OP) but to have an ability only made useful with a second ability is not great. Now even with 50% quickness passers by wave back with confused looks on their faces and continue on their way as you’re rooted to the spot in serene enlightenment.

You’ve portrayed my point in a comedic sense, thank you!

Shukran.4851:

PW sucks even if u add the nerfed 15% dmg because of his slow channeling. so i just like the damage as it is but want a faster cast channeling. anet can remove stun if they need but please
fast
channeling

that’s all

Please stop posting about the Thief class..

because you are the pro who teach how to play thief to everyone? please. . .

I wouldn’t mind the channel if we weren’t rooted in place for it. Thief is about mobility. Make the stun a daze and make movement possible during the channel.

No.

http://youtu.be/29M_VElHoFI

Elmuerto.9840:

PW is now call Waving In the Air – and is a form of Tai Chi. It was usable with 100% quickness (although admittedly a tiny bit OP) but to have an ability only made useful with a second ability is not great. Now even with 50% quickness passers by wave back with confused looks on their faces and continue on their way as you’re rooted to the spot in serene enlightenment.

This couldn’t be any further from the truth, I run S/P as a glass cannon roamer and despite not being as effective for straight up burst as the BS combo it keeps people locked down better than S/D while taking very heavy damage from PW.

I’m not opposed to reversing the nerf on PW, but I honestly think that a full 15% could make it too powerful.

Haha Rusc – Ninja Lumberjack – I like it and I sure felt like one of those. Incuraty – I played S/P more or less solid in WvW (without even using haste) however since moving to sPvP all the time (where players in all honesty tend to be quicker and a bit better than WvW) PW just feels slow even with a 50% haste boost. Most targets get out of the way so the whole damage doesn’t apply, add a rooted you into the equation and it’s got a negative effect on my combat I feel. Ways around it may include steal with 30 points in trickery to add another stun however we’re back in a synergy of abilities. So I agree with Issues – removing the root/speeding up the ability would be an improvement – adding the 15% reduction back wouldn’t convince alone me to use it again however, but it would be a start.

wookie.8934:

No.

What an enlightening response. Such compelling logic and reasoning, backed up with such hard evidence. Nobody could possibly match the fortitude that is this argument!

You should go on Question Time.

Zuer.2814:

I wouldn’t mind the channel if we weren’t rooted in place for it. Thief is about mobility. Make the stun a daze and make movement possible during the channel.

Ya that makes a lot of sense, let’s make it to the point where we evade everything and allow movement with it. I also think every hit you land you get +%50 more crit damage. /sarcasm

On a serious note, does Arena Net even reply to answers or do they just have the forums as a front so they pretend they’re fixing things?

Elmuerto.9840:

Incuraty – I played S/P more or less solid in WvW (without even using haste) however since moving to sPvP all the time (where players in all honesty tend to be quicker and a bit better than WvW) PW just feels slow even with a 50% haste boost. Most targets get out of the way so the whole damage doesn’t apply, add a rooted you into the equation and it’s got a negative effect on my combat I feel. Ways around it may include steal with 30 points in trickery to add another stun however we’re back in a synergy of abilities. So I agree with Issues – removing the root/speeding up the ability would be an improvement – adding the 15% reduction back wouldn’t convince alone me to use it again however, but it would be a start.

I disagree, firstlybecause I’m yet to notice any difference between the skill level of WvW players and sPvP players, it’s only in tPvP that there’s a skill difference, and secondly because it’s not hard to keep a player locked down with Infiltrator’s Strike, the stun on Pistol Whip, and the use of Mug, Basilisk Venom, and Devourer Venom.

You most certainly don’t need to go 30 points into trickery to keep them dazed, and I’m really not sure if you’ve noticed what the stun actually does to players when you hit them with Pistol Whip, but it keeps them locked down great.

I run 25/30/0/0/15 just like a Backstab build with the only difference being a switch between Dagger Training and Quick Venoms depending on whether I feel like running D/D or S/P. Again, I would argue that S/P keeps people locked down and controlled even better than the S/D daze builds do, and this is coming from someone who loves S/D in WvW.

It was never OP to begin with. In fact, I’d strongly argue that it was UP to begin with. A thief, who wastes a two utilities and ALL his initiative for a burst that would be entirely mitigated by a stunbreaker. Makes no sense how it was even considered op. Pre quickness nerf, you could achieve the same results anyways. The people who died before still died. 15% didn’t make a big enough difference, it was only to show the noobs that Anet was doing something, when it was simply an illusion, because it wasn’t overpowered. At all.

Doomdesire.9365:

It was never OP to begin with. In fact, I’d strongly argue that it was UP to begin with. A thief, who wastes a two utilities and ALL his initiative for a burst that would be entirely mitigated by a stunbreaker. Makes no sense how it was even considered op. Pre quickness nerf, you could achieve the same results anyways. The people who died before still died. 15% didn’t make a big enough difference, it was only to show the noobs that Anet was doing something, when it was simply an illusion, because it wasn’t overpowered. At all.

If you traited it with utilities than yes it was underpowered (as a stunbreak would render you pointless), but I mean for general use without the need of anything, the 15% extra damage would actually make a difference, the calculation were done up in the thread. Read up.

Yes please buff it again. The auto attack is stronger, that makes 0 sense, seriously please buff :I

It has similar dps as a auto-atttack chain, but it has a built in stun and a evade.

They could revert the dmg back to previous nerf stats or;
They could reduce the delay between the stun and the attack.

Both might be a bit OP.
Im happy with either way.

lLobo.7960:

It has similar dps as a auto-atttack chain, but it has a built in stun and a evade.

They could revert the dmg back to previous nerf stats or;
They could reduce the delay between the stun and the attack.

Both might be a bit OP.
Im happy with either way.

The stun doesn’t last long enough to hold you in place for the actual damage.

PW needs to be buffed badly. IMO it was never OP and shouldn’t have been nerfed to begin with.

Eliyahu.1467:

lLobo.7960:

It has similar dps as a auto-atttack chain, but it has a built in stun and a evade.

They could revert the dmg back to previous nerf stats or;
They could reduce the delay between the stun and the attack.

Both might be a bit OP.
Im happy with either way.

The stun doesn’t last long enough to hold you in place for the actual damage.

PW needs to be buffed badly. IMO it was never OP and shouldn’t have been nerfed to begin with.

Yup after like 70%-80% of it being casted, you can just move out of the way and you’ll still be swinging and damaging the air molecules. It needed a nerf because with quickness it was very strong, but considering quickness is now only 50%, pistol whip should be reverted to what it was originally.

Imo it is a PvE ability, has no place in PvP atm.

Volrath.1473:

Imo it is a PvE ability, has no place in PvP atm.

Care to back up your nonsense?

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

Imo it is a PvE ability, has no place in PvP atm.

Care to back up your nonsense?

NPC’s dont dodge/stun break / teleport out of it.
Players with a couple of functional brain cells will avoid the dmg easily.

Volrath.1473:

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

Imo it is a PvE ability, has no place in PvP atm.

Care to back up your nonsense?

NPC’s dont dodge/stun break / teleport out of it.
Players with a couple of functional brain cells will avoid the dmg easily.

Really? How about using utilities/elites/your steal to pistol whip? If you proc it with: Infiltrator’s Signet, Balisk Venom, Infiltrators strike, Devour Venom, Steal, you can still get some damage.

stun breakers…

But hey if you want to go own noobs in hot joins be my guest, in competitive pvp a S/P thief is a free kill.

Specially if you use all those utility skills leaving you without a stun breaker or a defensive utility of any kind.

and btw take a chill pill i’m being polite with you, there’s no need for aggressiveness.
Opinions are different you got your’s i got mine, i respect yours pls respect mine.

Volrath.1473:

stun breakers…

But hey if you want to go own noobs in hot joins be my guest, in competitive pvp a S/P thief is a free kill.

Specially if you use all those utility skills leaving you without a stun breaker or a defensive utility of any kind.

and btw take a chill pill i’m being polite with you, there’s no need for aggressiveness.
Opinions are different you got your’s i got mine, i respect yours pls respect mine.

I only play WvW, I don’t use all those, I’m just simply stating that there are ways to restrict people. I’m not upset; you simply said it has no use in PvP; where I disagree and say it can be utilized by punishing people who res and making more people follow you and taking aggro off your party.

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

stun breakers…

But hey if you want to go own noobs in hot joins be my guest, in competitive pvp a S/P thief is a free kill.

Specially if you use all those utility skills leaving you without a stun breaker or a defensive utility of any kind.

and btw take a chill pill i’m being polite with you, there’s no need for aggressiveness.
Opinions are different you got your’s i got mine, i respect yours pls respect mine.

I only play WvW, I don’t use all those, I’m just simply stating that there are ways to restrict people. I’m not upset; you simply said it has no use in PvP; where I disagree and say it can be utilized by punishing people who res and making more people follow you and taking aggro off your party.

Ah, see, we actually agree, thing is I was talking about competitive pvp and you about wvwvw and there I agree it has viability since it hits multiple targets.

Also if you are speced for init regen for short bow blasting in organized wvwvw raids, then S/P will work even better, it is not my main choice of weapon set but I do use it sometimes in wvwvw.

Volrath.1473:

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

stun breakers…

But hey if you want to go own noobs in hot joins be my guest, in competitive pvp a S/P thief is a free kill.

Specially if you use all those utility skills leaving you without a stun breaker or a defensive utility of any kind.

and btw take a chill pill i’m being polite with you, there’s no need for aggressiveness.
Opinions are different you got your’s i got mine, i respect yours pls respect mine.

I only play WvW, I don’t use all those, I’m just simply stating that there are ways to restrict people. I’m not upset; you simply said it has no use in PvP; where I disagree and say it can be utilized by punishing people who res and making more people follow you and taking aggro off your party.

Ah, see, we actually agree, thing is I was talking about competitive pvp and you about wvwvw and there I agree it has viability since it hits multiple targets.

Also if you are speced for init regen for short bow blasting in organized wvwvw raids, then S/P will work even better, it is not my main choice of weapon set but I do use it sometimes in wvwvw.

Tpvp and Spvp have gotten so kitten boring for me. I just feel slowed down lol. I enjoy WvW 100x more. Yup when I run with my group I run Shortbow for fields and I only switch to S/P for when I see people starting to res someone downed, use 2+3 and I put some pretty good numbers and make the people wanting to res back off with low hp. It’s very good; thats why I really want them to revert the changes back.

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

Imo it is a PvE ability, has no place in PvP atm.

Care to back up your nonsense?

NPC’s dont dodge/stun break / teleport out of it.
Players with a couple of functional brain cells will avoid the dmg easily.

Really? How about using utilities/elites/your steal to pistol whip? If you proc it with: Infiltrator’s Signet, Balisk Venom, Infiltrators strike, Devour Venom, Steal, you can still get some damage.

And then you get hit for 3k by retal.

Aleth.9630:

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

Imo it is a PvE ability, has no place in PvP atm.

Care to back up your nonsense?

NPC’s dont dodge/stun break / teleport out of it.
Players with a couple of functional brain cells will avoid the dmg easily.

Really? How about using utilities/elites/your steal to pistol whip? If you proc it with: Infiltrator’s Signet, Balisk Venom, Infiltrators strike, Devour Venom, Steal, you can still get some damage.

And then you get hit for 3k by retal.

Or get a stack of confusion on you before you have time to react.. im talking about you Diplomat Tarban…

I know its Pve but it should still apply.

Aleth.9630:

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

Imo it is a PvE ability, has no place in PvP atm.

Care to back up your nonsense?

NPC’s dont dodge/stun break / teleport out of it.
Players with a couple of functional brain cells will avoid the dmg easily.

Really? How about using utilities/elites/your steal to pistol whip? If you proc it with: Infiltrator’s Signet, Balisk Venom, Infiltrators strike, Devour Venom, Steal, you can still get some damage.

And then you get hit for 3k by retal.

Even the more reason to buff it. Just let me die faster I don’t care lol. Guardians are so stronkg

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

stun breakers…

But hey if you want to go own noobs in hot joins be my guest, in competitive pvp a S/P thief is a free kill.

Specially if you use all those utility skills leaving you without a stun breaker or a defensive utility of any kind.

and btw take a chill pill i’m being polite with you, there’s no need for aggressiveness.
Opinions are different you got your’s i got mine, i respect yours pls respect mine.

I only play WvW, I don’t use all those, I’m just simply stating that there are ways to restrict people. I’m not upset; you simply said it has no use in PvP; where I disagree and say it can be utilized by punishing people who res and making more people follow you and taking aggro off your party.

you only play wvwvw so

Please stop posting about the Thief class..

if u think pw is useful in pvp environment.
thx

Doomdesire.9365:

It was never OP to begin with. In fact, I’d strongly argue that it was UP to begin with. A thief, who wastes a two utilities and ALL his initiative for a burst that would be entirely mitigated by a stunbreaker. Makes no sense how it was even considered op. Pre quickness nerf, you could achieve the same results anyways. The people who died before still died. 15% didn’t make a big enough difference, it was only to show the noobs that Anet was doing something, when it was simply an illusion, because it wasn’t overpowered. At all.

This. The “PW ambush” builds were terrible even before all the nerfs. Blow 3-4 skills and probably Steal to get a kill if your opponent doesn’t have a stunbreaker and leave yourself sitting around without initiative or endurance? Pretty much any skill, including auto attacks, can fill that role when you’re burning a bunch of utilities to pull it off, there was no reason to nerf PW over it. People just continued to do the same thing with backstab/heartseeker, which always did the job better and had the added benefit of stealth.

tl;dr – You could ambush wreck people with literally any thief ability if you jumped on them with haste, basilisk venom, etc.

Why would you want more Hundred Blades or Mug+Backstab type effects? I don’t get this obsession with being able to down your opponent in 2 seconds. It’s makes for really boring fights. I would rather have they increased the stun duration to 1 second, or added a ½ second immobilize on top of the stun.

Kasama.8941:

Why would you want more Hundred Blades or Mug+Backstab type effects?

Well, part of the reason people would rather have raw damage on PW instead of a longer stun is that it’d be a lot more useful in PvE/WvW and give S/P a better-than-auto-attack damage option.

Kasama.8941:

Why would you want more Hundred Blades or Mug+Backstab type effects? I don’t get this obsession with being able to down your opponent in 2 seconds. It’s makes for really boring fights. I would rather have they increased the stun duration to 1 second, or added a ½ second immobilize on top of the stun.

Did you even read the thread at all? It was nerfed because quickness was alongside PW made it OP, now that quickness is only 50%, we should get our initial damage back from PW.

Shukran.4851:

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

stun breakers…

But hey if you want to go own noobs in hot joins be my guest, in competitive pvp a S/P thief is a free kill.

Specially if you use all those utility skills leaving you without a stun breaker or a defensive utility of any kind.

and btw take a chill pill i’m being polite with you, there’s no need for aggressiveness.
Opinions are different you got your’s i got mine, i respect yours pls respect mine.

I only play WvW, I don’t use all those, I’m just simply stating that there are ways to restrict people. I’m not upset; you simply said it has no use in PvP; where I disagree and say it can be utilized by punishing people who res and making more people follow you and taking aggro off your party.

you only play wvwvw so

Please stop posting about the Thief class..

if u think pw is useful in pvp environment.
thx

Actually, it is useful, so stop being such an arrogant kitten and get off your pedestal.

Kasama.8941:

Why would you want more Hundred Blades or Mug+Backstab type effects? I don’t get this obsession with being able to down your opponent in 2 seconds. It’s makes for really boring fights. I would rather have they increased the stun duration to 1 second, or added a ½ second immobilize on top of the stun.

Why on earth would they add an immobilise to it? A stun is a daze combined with an immobilise so adding the immobilise condition would be absolutely pointless.

Incurafy.6329:

Shukran.4851:

Issues.5789:

Volrath.1473:

stun breakers…

But hey if you want to go own noobs in hot joins be my guest, in competitive pvp a S/P thief is a free kill.

Specially if you use all those utility skills leaving you without a stun breaker or a defensive utility of any kind.

and btw take a chill pill i’m being polite with you, there’s no need for aggressiveness.
Opinions are different you got your’s i got mine, i respect yours pls respect mine.

I only play WvW, I don’t use all those, I’m just simply stating that there are ways to restrict people. I’m not upset; you simply said it has no use in PvP; where I disagree and say it can be utilized by punishing people who res and making more people follow you and taking aggro off your party.

you only play wvwvw so

Please stop posting about the Thief class..

if u think pw is useful in pvp environment.
thx

Actually, it is useful, so stop being such an arrogant kitten and get off your pedestal.

Kasama.8941:

Why would you want more Hundred Blades or Mug+Backstab type effects? I don’t get this obsession with being able to down your opponent in 2 seconds. It’s makes for really boring fights. I would rather have they increased the stun duration to 1 second, or added a ½ second immobilize on top of the stun.

Why on earth would they add an immobilise to it? A stun is a daze combined with an immobilise so adding the immobilise condition would be absolutely pointless.

sorry but i need a video of some pro thief who carry his team with pw. in Tpvp. and im not on a pedestal. i only state what the game offer to thief right now. and pw is not in the list if u want to win.

but from your signature i can’t expect more than an advocate of lost causes.
gg no re