Guild Wars 2

Many believe Shadow Shot to be overpowered relative to other skills, making Dagger/Pistol also overpowered relative to other weapon sets. And that may very well be true. But what if Shadow Shot may actually be the key to allowing more diversity among Thieves? What if Shadow Shot were actually changed to be more versatile, allowing the Thief to become a more versatile fighter as a whole?

How can it be done???…

Shadow Shot becomes a ground-targeted skill. If the projectile hits a target instead of the ground, it acts as it does now: the Thief shadowsteps to the target, the target is blinded, and the Thief strikes the target with a dagger.
However, if the projectile hits the ground, the Thief simply shadowsteps to that location.

Does it sound familiar? It should.
Yes, this will basically make Infiltrator’s Arrow redundant, making the Shortbow rather obsolete.

There are two different methods that could allow this new functionality to exist without altering the current functionality too much…

1. Shadow Shot could always be a ground-targeted skill, but could be locked onto the currently selected target by use of the existing option in the options menu.

2. If the Thief has a target selected, Shadow Shot will function as normal. However, if there is no target selected, then Shadow Shot becomes ground-targeted.

In short, it would make D/P the virtually-required set for every viable Thief. However, in doing so, it will also allow every Thief to choose a second combat weapon set instead of a utility weapon.

You may hate the D/P playstyle, but you could use it just for the shadowstep, the same reason you use the Shortbow. Or you could still take the Shortbow if you wish. Take D/D or S/D or the weapon set of your choosing.

I’m not saying to delete the Shortbow, but perhaps it would necessitate improvements to it’s functionality.

Personally, I do not see this change as buffing the D/P set so much as I see it giving viability and opportunity to other weapon sets. Honestly, isn’t the sole reason that very few people take anything other than D/P and Shortbow is simply to shadowstep around the map? D/P is for viability, Shortbow is for mobility. Give D/P the mobility, then you remove the need for Shortbow. Then you give every Thief a free choice to take their favorite or next favorite weapon set.

Yes, you may actually see Thieves (like me) taking both D/P and S/D just to be able to mix up combat tactics mid-fight. Wow, I used to love to do that… before I became reliant on Shortbow #5. I wish I could do so again and remain viable.

Anyway, it’s just a passing thought from a bored Thief. Opinions? Suggestions?

Ps. If you can’t tell, I play D/P, but I’m sick of being stuck with it and Shortbow. So my intent is not to buff D/P. My purpose is to remain viable while taking another weapon set. I’m not asking for nerfs to D/P just so other sets become better choices in relation, I just want a simple change in order to make other sets a true choice to use along with D/P, not in spite of it.

EDIT: Changed the preface in order to more accurately describe my intent. Also added a new idea of functionality that is in my next post.

No… nerfing our weapon sets just because other other weapons sets got nerfed doesn’t add up.

This, this is why thieves gets nerfs after nerfs. Because instead of fixing the class as a whole or fixing unviable weapons it’s easier to nerf some build that is viable, so then all builds are equally bad.

edit: what’s up with all this fatalism lately on thief forum? did anet finally break your spirits?

I don’t see this as a nerf, its actually a huge buff that i’d really welcome. Good idea imo.

I edited to add a PS. for clarification at the end.

And to clarify once more, I’m not looking to nerf D/P or Shadow Shot at all. Nor am I looking to specifically buff it. What I am suggesting is merely to make a change in functionality.

Yes, it may be more difficult to hit the target for the Blind and damage, but it would add extra versatility and utility to the skill, weapon set, and Thief as a whole. Not to mention that you can still auto-lock a ground-targeted skill to your selected target in the options menu.

I’m curious… do Thief players actually prefer to be locked into Shortbow as the second weapon?

Yes, if this change took place, then the initiative cost may need to be increased to match Infiltrator’s Arrow. Or not. I don’t know. But that’s really the only possible nerf that I could see.

I’d even be up for adding the small AoE Blind that Infiltrator’s Arrow has instead of the single-target Blind of Shadow Shot, making actually striking the target unneeded. The Thief could even make a swipe with its dagger to try to hit something in front of it just in case it landed next to an enemy without the projectile directly hitting the target. In other words, very minimal changes to the actual attack.

Or, how about this?
When you have a target selected, Shadow Shot works as normal.
But if you have no target selected, you may ground-target the shot.
Sounding less like a nerf now?

I just edited the original post in order to more accurately reflect the intent of the suggested change. I also added the possible methods to achieve the new functionality with minimal change to the current functionality.

I do apologize for any misunderstandings in my intention. I hope the edited version clears everything up. Enjoy! :-D

EDIT: After thinking more about it, Black Powder may actually seem like a better skill to be a ground-targeted shadowstep. Not only would it give mobility to more weapon sets (D/P, S/P, P/P), but it has the higher initiative cost already as well as an AoE Blind that would be much more effective if it could be used at range.

“I suggest a nerf which is actually a huge buff”
Well, ok, then, why do you claim it would be a nerf?
And it doesn’t help other sets one bit, just that we better take D/P as our second set = everybody becomes a D/P thief – mission accomplished.

ETA: Unfortunately the fun we once had in this forum is long gone, otherwise I’d suggest we make a contest: Everybody thinks of a buff they’d like to see – I’d like a rainbow when I’m doing CnD e.g. – and we flood the forums with these great suggestions and see what will be in game 4 months from now. The winner gets 500 gold.

With this change, the initiative cost should also be raised to 6, or if it would stay 4, then the range decreased to 600.

I would still just “balance” this skill normally. Its main use is to close gap. My change would be to move the blind from the unblockable projectile to the dagger hit. With this you cannot blind blocking people, and if you miss the damage part you won’t blind the target.
The damage is also a bit high in my opinion (would decrease by ~10%) but maybe it would be way too much.

Can we stop talking about nerfs for D/P and talk about buffs for other builds?

You don’t fix a broken car by breaking everyone else’s can in neighborhood. This trend of calling for more nerfs just so other terrible builds will seem less terrible is – wrong.

This would be a buff for D/P.

Can you guys please ask a friend for duels while you’re using other sets than D/P so you can finally understand where the “nerf” is coming from? Take someone who knows how to play though.

ETA: And actually this would be something anet should do. We shouldn’t be the ones responsible for balance in this game but it seems we are.

D/P can easily reset fights with stealth. If you make Black Powder a ground targeted shadow step, D/P would have too much mobility. They could use Black Powder to create distance before leaping through the field.

I also like the fact that we have tradeoffs when selecting your offhand weapon. Mobility should come at a cost.

If this buff makes it into the game why would you bother with another weapon set. Just run D/P with D/P .

Kageseigi.2150:

You may hate the D/P playstyle, but you could use it just for the shadowstep, the same reason you use the Shortbow. Or you could still take the Shortbow if you wish. Take D/D or S/D or the weapon set of your choosing.

I’m not saying to delete the Shortbow, but perhaps it would necessitate improvements to it’s functionality.

[sic]…[sic]

Ps. If you can’t tell, I play D/P, but I’m sick of being stuck with it and Shortbow. So my intent is not to buff D/P. My purpose is to remain viable while taking another weapon set. I’m not asking for nerfs to D/P just so other sets become better choices in relation, I just want a simple change in order to make other sets a true choice to use along with D/P, not in spite of it.

Personally I do not like shortbow either. Despite the fact that it is our best kiting option, and one of the easiest ways to deal with reaper and warrior. For mobility purposes your not locked to shortbow. You can getaway with staff just fine. I prefer staff over shortbow as I find uses for all of the skills on the whole weapon, and I have absolutely no issues with running vault for mobility. Staff land speed is very similar over a full bar of initiative. The only real downsides to it is you can be interrupted during the animation and its not an instant blink.

I do agree with you and many that share the view of shadow shot being overpowered numerically and utility wise. I do not agree with your vision of what shadow shot should be.

Jana.6831:

“I suggest a nerf which is actually a huge buff”
Well, ok, then, why do you claim it would be a nerf?

Because originally, I hadn’t thought of the possibilities of how to make the change without it seeming like a nerf. But I did say it could seem like a nerf, because it would be manually targeted, thus increasing the skill to hit. I had forgotten about the options to lock a ground-targeted skill to a selected target. Stuff like that happens when posting a random thought at 4am in the morning :-P

vaxjani.9073:

With this change, the initiative cost should also be raised to 6, or if it would stay 4, then the range decreased to 600.

Indeed, this is why, after more consideration, I have decided that this change would be much more suited to Black Powder instead.

Dagger.2035:

If this buff makes it into the game why would you bother with another weapon set. Just run D/P with D/P .

Haha, that may be true, though if it is an actual concern, remember that doubling of on a weapon set is ONLY good for weapon-swap sigils. Outside of that, it makes you very one dimensional.

After thinking it over, Shadow Shot is clearly not the best skill option for this change. It is better off with another skill altogether. So I will be revising the concept as a whole for that particular skill as well as making an argument for it.

So this thread is basically obsolete, and will be retitled to reflect that. Thank you all for the feedback. I hope to get renewed feedback once the new changes and argument are made! :-)

Ps. No more posting sweeping changes at 4am for me :-P