Guild Wars 2

Stop polluting this forum with negative opinions about things that don’t matter (names of things) , things that are unfinished (elite spec) and things that just needed to happen (balancing). I’m posting this to show those who still like thief in its current state and understand that balancing and pleasing everyone is a very complex matter, you are not alone. Thief is still amazing, ignore the children who don’t understand this is just a game.

Some threads from other class subforums:

Elementalists: “How many will quit if they dont fix tempest?”

Engineers: “Who’s the dev responsible for engi”

Guardians: Taken from “Decribe the Dragonhungter in 3 words”

• Don’t force ranged.
• Not really good
• Boring ranger wannabe
• Worst name Ever

The list goes on, and on and on…

Mesmers: Many threads about bugged out clones, skills and disciplines.

Necromancers & Rangers: Funnily enough, barely any complaints coming from these guys.

Revenants: Just a bunch of hype lol.

Warriors: “I dont like Anet’s way of thinking about us”,

Daredevil is announced and all you guys can do is complain about the name??? How the kittening what? I’m looking forward to try out the new skills and a brand new weapon with brand new weapon skills and see how I can use them. I’ll see what I get when it’s FINISHED and then see if I like it or not. If it’s bad then guess what I’m going to do? Not use it. WOW. Mind bender right?

I know most of you who complain are a vocal minority, but complaining on these forums A. won’t change a darn thing, B. make you look like a kitten , C. turn something good into something bad just because you don’t like it.

TL; DR Everyone complains about how bad and under powered their class is, thief is no different. Daredevil is unfinished and if a name is enough to make you dislike something, then grow the kitten up.

Don’t really care so much about the name but I did care that this elite spec was an overhyped trap. And 1 trait, Bounding Dodger, was what it took to get me out of that boat. Anet made more than half our sets competitive with the elite spec mostly from that single trait.

I don’t give a kitten about anything so long as that Bounding Dodger retains its leap finisher.

Thank you Karl you marvelous kitten! I love you!

As an Engineer main the Engineer forum is pretty positive in general.

We just want our bugs fixed, that the only negative aspect.
That and explosives being a mess.

Uh.. The Mes thread was one guy mentioning that he still has trouble with thieves and asking advice on how to beat them.

But on topic; I love everything so far about daredevil, even the name.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Uh.. The Mes thread was one guy mentioning that he still has trouble with thieves and asking advice on how to beat them.

But on topic; I love everything so far about daredevil, even the name.

Maybe his concept of the Mesmer forum is stuck in a pre-6/23 state. Kinda like how a lot of people still think we have clone death traits.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Uh.. The Mes thread was one guy mentioning that he still has trouble with thieves and asking advice on how to beat them.

But on topic; I love everything so far about daredevil, even the name.

He’s just handpicking posters that help him prove his point. Their posts do not represent the entirety of their respective profession forums.

Having read most of what has been said on this forum over the last few months, and now we finally see our elite spec, i think we probably owe the devs an apology, as a collective. Yes, the silence is frustrating, but i dare say they are slightly busy at the moment.
Daredevil (seriously who gives a kitten about the name?) as it stands looks kittening awesome. YES some other areas of thief do need to be looked at and reworked, but we already knew there would be another big balance patch before HoT goes live.

Reilem.5910:

Daredevil is announced and all you guys can do is complain about the name???

Ahahahaah imagine a party with Dragondurr, DareHurr and the tempest with their new shiny warhorn.. ahhahahahah I can’t stop laughing

ps: At least thief don’t looks to much kittened

I’ll make it short. Staff, no. Not buying expansion.

I made the topic berserker is being slept on. If you read it you’d see I’m hyped for it and wasn’t sure if other people were. The topic was positive and got good feedback. Please improve reading skills.

CaptainCocoPops.7618:

Having read most of what has been said on this forum over the last few months, and now we finally see our elite spec, i think we probably owe the devs an apology, as a collective. Yes, the silence is frustrating, but i dare say they are slightly busy at the moment.
Daredevil (seriously who gives a kitten about the name?) as it stands looks kittening awesome. YES some other areas of thief do need to be looked at and reworked, but we already knew there would be another big balance patch before HoT goes live.

I, for one agree with you entirely. I have been feeling negative about Anet’s stance on thieves for months now despite my minimal feedback on the forums. As it is right now, i am totally hyped about our upcoming spec and my faith in ANet’s will to make us viable is partially restored. Time to focus on the bigger picture, pls stop nitpicking about every little thing.

Yea….people making knee jerk overly dramatic complaints about how terrible everything is has nothing to do with what class they play.

Thief is an awesome class, but playing it won’t make people immune from sinking to the level of forum QQers, lol.

I’m moderately impressed, but I need to test it before I’m sure.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Don’t really care so much about the name but I did care that this elite spec was an overhyped trap. And 1 trait, Bounding Dodger, was what it took to get me out of that boat. Anet made more than half our sets competitive with the elite spec mostly from that single trait.

I don’t give a kitten about anything so long as that Bounding Dodger retains its leap finisher.

Thank you Karl you marvelous kitten! I love you!

We still need to see if we can control to which direction we dodge (I hope so but… who knows)

Um as the author of the “Thieves” thread in the Mesmer forum I feel you’re misrepresenting my post.

The post was for a discussion on how to effectively counter thieves (namely DP) in PvP and WvW. It was not a nerf thieves thread. I even joked about that in the initial post so please get your facts straight.

I’d appreciate it if you rectify your post in that regard.

Oh and in regards to your post and daredevil, it looks like devs are trying to give thieves what they’ve always asked for, a build/spec that can have staying power in fights. To not play a hit and run stealth play style.

I’m all for this and think the thief forum should work with devs rather than screaming their little heads of like a bunch of 3yr olds who were just told no to having an ice cream. Not that other forums are much different as shown in some of your examples.

I have 6000 hours on playing all classes. I have all classes up to level 80. I spend 80 plus percent of my time on thief because I find the style of combat the most fun. Some of the others I can bring out for an hour or so and than go back to thief.

I do not think and have never thought the thief class “doomed” as some suggest or hated by ANET. There a few things need tweaking is all and especially in acro.

That said, I am very positive about this changes. I can find no problems with any of the traits at all now with the type of weapon chosen. While one thief does use P/P I was not wanting another ranged option choice and especially one at extreme range where all that I find “fun” in a thief is compromised by sitting at range (the ports the dodges the dashing around the in and out always active style)

I am extrmemely positive about this new traitline and even the name grows on me given the new style of play it will allow. My playtime thief will likely go up by another 10 percent. The person responsible for this traitline did a bang up job.

Whining about whining. How meta.

No lectures, please.

apharma.3741:

Um as the author of the “Thieves” thread in the Mesmer forum I feel you’re misrepresenting my post.

Terribly sorry, will change. As some have pointed out I was cherry picking. Apologies.

Azure.8670:

I made the topic berserker is being slept on. If you read it you’d see I’m hyped for it and wasn’t sure if other people were. The topic was positive and got good feedback. Please improve reading skills.

Yeah I’ll be straight with you, I didn’t read the post :P . Warriors were all the way at the bottom of the list I had already spent too much time reading. I’ll remove it from the list.

I know it’s “whining about whining” but it has just gotten too much for me to ignore. Every day I come here there is some new hateful post, hating on Anet for absolutely no valid reason, and it annoys me to the core. It’s just super disrespecting to say such horrible things about people who have done nothing other than their best to help this game become what it is.

As someone who has played since beta this game has changed immensely, and if there is something that bothers you, it probably will be addressed over time. But please stop making these USELESS hate-forum-posts about things that ANet is perfectly aware of, and start enjoying the game.

Reilem, maturity is not something common to forums, thank you for rectifying it and showing how to really behave on forums. :-)

Reilem.5910:

TL; DR Everyone complains about how bad and under powered their class is, thief is no different. Daredevil is unfinished and if a name is enough to make you dislike something, then grow the kitten up.

You got it all wrong. The Thief Elite Spec is not “under powered” rather it is so good that many of us can see the nerf bat swinging a mile away and doubtful that this spec will remain the same post launch.

Thief is easily the most unhealthy I’ve seen a forum in a long time.
Like, actually bad for my physical health to read.

Thieves also tend to be the most toxic in-game so it isn’t surprising that the thief forum is the most toxic as well. The in-game piece is more funny since most of the toxic thieves don’t even realize that they are the reason for the loss.

Reilem.5910:

TL; DR Everyone complains about how bad and under powered their class is, thief is no different. Daredevil is unfinished and if a name is enough to make you dislike something, then grow the kitten up.

I think you haven’t been reading the majority of complaints very closely. A lot of them have been about the nerfing of our defensive lines. In particular, acrobatics was pre-nerfed to make room for Daredevil. Now aside from pre-nerf feline grace, daredevil is way more cohesive than acrobatics has ever been. That said, it seems like they took a lot of ideas for fixing acrobatics and put it into this spec. That’s great, but what does acrobatics do that this spec now doesn’t effectively do better? Shadow arts has also seen issues largely due to placement of traits in the line.

Before you assume that the only thing we’ve been complaining about is a name, actually read through this forum.

Come hang out at the Mesmer forums. We’re the most chill by far.

The Revenant forums are easily the most friendly.

People are kittens, easy. Hur dur, they took away arco only to sell it back for $$$…

Am I only one who’s seeing this right? Daredevil is best thing that happened to thieves in a long time. Those grandmasters make every single weapon combo playable in pvp/wvw. S/P and p/p got stealth via leap on evade. S/d got buffs it needed. D/P got buffed. D/d got sustain it needed after burst opener. P/d condi got even better. Shortbow is shortbow. Staff looks like aoe cleve we needed.

Wanna play power, condi or hybrid? Everything looks playable…with multiple playsets.

Now of course, we need to at least see it in action, let alone test it.

Also this doesn’t mean base specialisations and weapons are perfect the way they are and if we try during betas we can point out their flaws to devs.

Tl;dr: chill out, everything’s fine.

Thieves are upset that we’re being sold back effectively the same traits that were once in Acro + a few that would have made Acro and the thief as a whole complete… without needing the $50 bill in the form of another trait line. The Acrobatics line is still terrible and there’s effectively zero reason now to use it. Daredevil as a name is unfitting but whatever. It’s a freaking name. I am glad at least they changed it from two words to one, though, as Dare Devil was kind of painful to read and isn’t even grammatically correct.

I hope we continue to see releases of elite specs. I’m really hoping at some point we can finally make use of the revealed debuff better. The design concept behind Revealed Training was awesome. I wasn’t on either side of rifle vs staff, but getting reveal on auto-attack from the rifle due to its noise and size and traits focused on being revealed would have been really interesting.

People are deluding themselves if they think the Elite Specialization will magically fix Thief. There is definitely some cool stuff to mess with there (new traits and utilities mostly), but Staff and the new Heal are very mediocre atm, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, nothing has been done about our nerfed traitlines and lowest-in-the-game durability.

If that stuff is addressed between now and HoT, then great! If not, well… no amount of daredevilry will save us.

GrandHaven.1052:

As an Engineer main the Engineer forum is pretty positive in general.

We just want our bugs fixed, that the only negative aspect.
That and explosives being a mess.

Yep. It isn’t all dome and gloom there. That being said don’t make post like this OP. Unless you are willing to read each forum’s threads taking random thread titles is just silly.

DeceiverX.8361:

Thieves are upset that we’re being sold back effectively the same traits that were once in Acro + a few that would have made Acro and the thief as a whole complete… without needing the $50 bill in the form of another trait line. The Acrobatics line is still terrible and there’s effectively zero reason now to use it. Daredevil as a name is unfitting but whatever. It’s a freaking name. I am glad at least they changed it from two words to one, though, as Dare Devil was kind of painful to read and isn’t even grammatically correct.

I hope we continue to see releases of elite specs. I’m really hoping at some point we can finally make use of the revealed debuff better. The design concept behind Revealed Training was awesome. I wasn’t on either side of rifle vs staff, but getting reveal on auto-attack from the rifle due to its noise and size and traits focused on being revealed would have been really interesting.

1) Acro never gave combo finishers on dodge.
2) Acro never gave damage on dodge.
3) Acro never gave endurance for ini spent
4) Acro never removed conditions on dodge

Also, Acro will actually synergize really well with this trait line. No one ever said you could only run this or acro.

If they had left Feline’s Grace as it was, then they might as well have just removed the endurance bar for thieves and just let them have infinite dodges.

Ya, it sucks that S/D got nerfed, but that really has nothing to do with this specialization.

Yes, you can run Acro with DD and whatever else, but there’s a little concept called opportunity cost that comes into play. By having to take two trait lines to get increased survivability comparable to what other professions would have with one, we’re giving up a whole extra line of damage and/or utility to do it. This is not ideal.

Acro needs something more to make it unique and viable on its own, and Thief needs higher base durability in general. Doesn’t get much simpler than that.

I’m not a thief main, but I’ve fought thieves a ton and isn’t their low durability usually offset by their unparalleled access to stealth and superior mobility?

Forums essentially are made for complains. Players that are happy with game play it instead of posting on forums. If negativity bothers you so much, then just don’t read forums. Nobody forces you.

OP, WHO are YOU to tell other people what to do? People have right to have own opinion and express it here, weither you like it or not. Frankly, you are actually one of those posters that “pollute” forums because you come here, judge other posters based on your very subjective opinion and actually dare to tell them what to do. Arrogant much?

Hey! My post got an honourable mention! I feel so accomplished!

WindGodGirl.6405:

I’m not a thief main, but I’ve fought thieves a ton and isn’t their low durability usually offset by their unparalleled access to stealth and superior mobility?

In a word: no. Very no.

Thief access to stealth is no longer unparalleled, and all Stealth does is help you reposition or disengage.

Subsequently, all having the best mobility and lowest durability does is let you backcap effectively, or show up to wherever people are to die quicker.

Thieves can +1, but assuming equal skill, a 1v1 is death for Thief in SPvP right now a vast majority of the time. Turns out having 11k base HP and essentially non-existent blocks, protection, and stability makes you squishy! Who knew?

Cynz.9437:

Forums essentially are made for complains. Players that are happy with game play it instead of posting on forums. If negativity bothers you so much, then just don’t read forums. Nobody forces you.

OP, WHO are YOU to tell other people what to do? People have right to have own opinion and express it here, weither you like it or not. Frankly, you are actually one of those posters that “pollute” forums because you come here, judge other posters based on your very subjective opinion and actually dare to tell them what to do. Arrogant much?

The irony is palpable.

Amante.8109:

Yes, you can run Acro with DD and whatever else, but there’s a little concept called opportunity cost that comes into play. By having to take two trait lines to get increased survivability comparable to what other professions would have with one, we’re giving up a whole extra line of damage and/or utility to do it. This is not ideal.

Acro needs something more to make it unique and viable on its own, and Thief needs higher base durability in general. Doesn’t get much simpler than that.

Of course there’s opportunity cost, but there’s also synergy between the two lines that outweighs that. You could go for something like DA or CS for more damage or you could go acro for more dodges, which translates to more damage with bounding dodger. The DD traitline isn’t straight damage or straight defense. It’s a bit of both or either depending on what you pick up, so you can pick up more offensive traits and supplement with acro for defense or you can pick up defensive traits (like unhindered combat) and get damage from something like CS/DA.

Besides, history has shown that you can do fine without ever picking up a full offensive trait line. An example of this was the Acro/SA/Trickery S/D meta back in the day. People thought you NEEDED CS or DA to play a decent thief build before Jumper (I believe it was him) used this build and made it meta.