Guild Wars 2

Just curious, if there are those who are truly dedicated to “+1 and decap” duties, why not just go all out? Why not choose either full Glass Canon or full Sustain builds?

If you are only decapping (running away if an enemy is even sighted) and entering into a +1 fray using hit-and-run tactics, why do you even need Shadow Arts? Why not run DA/CS/Trickery to get the most dps possible? Why not use a signet/trapper build to have enough damage potential to instantly down a capper if you choose to do so?

Or, if you are only running around (de)capping points and +1ing, why not go for full sustainability instead of damage? Toughness, Vitality, Healing Power, etc. At least you can stay on point a bit longer and contest it in a 1v1. If you are going to +1, then you can still use your control abilities (stun, daze, immobilize, cripple). Plus, you may be able to last long enough in a battle to resurrect an ally without melting.

The current meta Thief seems like it’s building to sustain situations it shouldn’t be in, but also building for damage that it doesn’t have many opportunities to apply (or, at least, not efficiently).

Thoughts?

Isn’t it to just make 1 mistake be a GG instead of half a mistake?

Kageseigi.2150:

snip

Don’t think that works with thief. Tried a soldier’s zerg build – doesn’t really work. Ran around with my soldier’s/clerics warrior in wvw yesterday (I know that’s a bit different from pvp) and met a D/D thief which I only realized when I looked at the damage he did: 2,5 crit CnD, 2,2 k non crit backstab (maybe he caught my front). Maybe he was a tanky build and he was killed by my server mates, but I don’t think he had a chance against me and my experience on warrior in wvw is 2 hours. Still I managed to kill 100 peeps within an hour – kind of silly.

TLDR: Tanky builds don’t work for thief and even a glassy high damage thief can’t one shot and has got a problem with tanky classes. I bet though that some people can pull it off.

ETA: I know a full soldier’s thief in wvw who’s pretty good – I lost against him, but then again; lags and he was D/P when I met him.
ETA²: My mindset comes from: I have been soldier’s, didn’t work for me after the introduction of ferocity, so I went valk/zerker – so maybe it does work and I’m wrong.

A vast majority of people already run Zerk/Marauder… isn’t that already going to an extreme?

Extreme bunk or sustain on thief doesn’t work. You won’t die often but you won’t kill anyone either… Just useless and since requires stealthing you want hold a point…

I play berserker full burst with da ca trickery with scholars. Yes, you can burst people. You make a mistake and get caught with abilities on cd and you are dead. You have to blow 1-2 abilities just to survive the auto immunity passive abilities and keep track of what you trigger them in a fight…

A lot of work as thief to do well…

Or you could just refill a warrior wearing berserkers and pop rampage and chain cc people to death.

Oops, I suppose I didn’t quite make my reasoning clear enough. This thought assumes that a Thief is going to perform ONLY the “role” of decap and +1. Meaning he will never engage in a fair fight. He will ONLY move to empty nodes or fight when outnumbering the enemy.

The current meta build isn’t full damage or sustain. It is listed as using Shadowstep, Shadow Refuge, and Blinding Powder. All of those are either for utility or sustain. It also uses Shadow Arts instead of Critical Strikes which is also for sustain. But the supposed “role” of decap/+1 requires no sustain. It is all about avoiding damage.

To improve the +1 ability, it seems that Critical Strikes with the Signets of Power trait along with at least three signets should be taken. Or to be able to “ambush-defend” a node, a signet/trapper build with at least Shadow Trap and the Deadly Trapper trait could be used to gain the most damage.

As for a sustain build, your +1 abilities would be mainly to control the enemy and draw focus away from your teammate instead of downing them. For nodes, you could actually attempt to hold them temporarily. If using a Sword build, you’ll have some teleports to help evade inside a node without having to go into stealth.

And yes, this is mainly for Conquest, seeing that it is where the decap/+1 “role” comes into play. WvW is a completely different animal, thank goodness! :-D

Again, it’s to PURELY (de)cap and +1. There should be no combat or activity outside of those. It’s not about killing anyone or everyone, it’s about scoring points on the scoreboard.

Ps. This is looking at it through a pure decap/+1 perspective and philosophy. I don’t like it at all, but I’m trying to figure out the reasoning of not building for an extreme. This “role” is all about mobility and assistance. Mobility is not hindered in the least by a Sustain build. And a full Glass build will not die if combat is chosen/avoided successfully.

Wvw isn’t that different, just that we kill each other
Cynz explained to me why SA as it is is really good in pvp right now – and hey I understood it – doesn’t help me much in wvw though.

And to be honest; we explained to you why this likely wouldn’t work. You still need to defend yourself and even as a soldier’s you’re not tanky but don’t do damage.
Maybe I should give PvP another shot. Problem is: How to get the MUST KILL out of my head?

I actually do play DA/CS/TR. I also tried it with Berserker Amulet and even Scholar Runes (D/P and D/D) for fun but it simply didn’t really work.
If you play all out glass and enter a seemingly empty point where for example, a trap ranger left a surprise…. You’re dead.
You can make it work for teamfights, staying on the outskirts and picking of the stray enemies. It’s actually for every single moment outside of those that you’re in real trouble whenever a random bit of AoE get’s to you. That’s just how weak we are.

because none of extremes work?
full tank thief doesn’t work, they die just as fast and do no dmg
full dps thief doesn’t work either even if you just go around decap, you still gonna get one shot by some wild mesmer

Kageseigi.2150:

Why not use a signet/trapper build to have enough damage potential to instantly down a capper if you choose to do so?

Because it doesn’t exist. The non-Thief meta is too tanky to even think that insta-gibbing anyone is a possibility. The only one that is guaranteed to die is the Thief.

Or, if you are only running around (de)capping points and +1ing, why not go for full sustainability instead of damage?

Again, you can’t +1 with full sustain. Without damage items, you might as well not exists.

I play DA/CS/Tr maurader and pack runes, SoP with 2 signets. Blowing everything with a full signet build still isn’t a good idea, but the 2 dodges from Signet of Agility helps in a short fight, and infiltrator’s signet lets you use shadowstep as an emergency cleanse while retaining a stun break. Decently effective in comparison to the other builds I’ve played since patch, but this is really only because our defensive lines are mediocre while our offensive lines are in good shape. With S/D it has excellent time on target and alright sustain.