Guild Wars 2

As I spend a lot of time on my Thief in PvP, I’ve always wondered why this skill was so clunky in regards to condi clear. As a predominately melee class, you want to leave melee range if you’re under pressure whether it be a condi based skill or flat damage.

Why is it that in a scenario in which you may have little time to react that the condi removal is offloaded to the return portion of this skill; A allowing you to die to condi ticks if you trying to avoid condi application in melee and already have condis, and B forcing you to re-engage or place yourself in melee range once more just to remove conditions that will kill you…

The obvious suggestion being that the condition removal aspect of this skill is moved to the first activation of shadowstep. You can than be allowed to re-engage with other skills without having to waste the second stun break on activation.

/discuss

I would enjoy that.

The feelz. I try to never use shadowstep for the condi removal because if I’m that desperate for a cleanse then I probably need to be running, not putting myself back into a fight. Typically, I don’t need cleanse that badly unless I get hit with some random mesmer condi burst and can use other cleanses to take care of it.

AegisFLCL.7623:

As I spend a lot of time on my Thief in PvP, I’ve always wondered why this skill was so clunky in regards to condi clear. As a predominately melee class, you want to leave melee range if you’re under pressure whether it be a condi based skill or flat damage.

Why is it that in a scenario in which you may have little time to react that the condi removal is offloaded to the return portion of this skill; A allowing you to die to condi ticks if you trying to avoid condi application in melee and already have condis, and B forcing you to re-engage or place yourself in melee range once more just to remove conditions that will kill you…

The obvious suggestion being that the condition removal aspect of this skill is moved to the first activation of shadowstep. You can than be allowed to re-engage with other skills without having to waste the second stun break on activation.

/discuss

That is because you’re not using it as intended.

You suppose to engage (or re-engage) with Shadowstep so when you get loaded with conditions, you can use the return to remove them.

Placing the condi-removal on first activation will have the same problem when Thieves uses it to engage.

You’re just creating a cyclical problem when you’re suppose to instead just use it as intended.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That is because you’re not using it as intended.

You suppose to engage (or re-engage) with Shadowstep so when you get loaded with conditions, you can use the return to remove them.

Placing the condi-removal on first activation will have the same problem when Thieves uses it to engage.

You’re just creating a cyclical problem when you’re suppose to instead just use it as intended.

Please spare me the “I’m best thief NA” before you even reply…

That is flat out not true. First off you’re blowing a long cd stun break when you can engage any number of ways to melee range (bar running staff where this could be considered useful). Second, Shadowstep is far more useful as a disengaging/repositioning tool.

No matter which way you put it, on paper or in practice, it will always be more useful to disengage/reposition. And therefor frontloading the condi removal would be a good QoL improvement, especially with the existing meta and not being able to instantly faceroll.

If anything I think it’d be better to argue removing the condi removal from this skill all together and building it into another utility skill. As the skill exist now the way the condi removal function just seems like it was tacked on because they didn’t know where else to put it.

Hell I’ll do one better, make the Condi clear whenever you use a shadowstep a trait, and make it affect all Shadowstep abilities. Muahahahaha

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You suppose to engage (or re-engage) with Shadowstep so when you get loaded with conditions, you can use the return to remove them.

Haha, sadly, I’m not always sure when you’re serious and when you’re trolling :-P

As for me, I use Shadowstep with the first priority being a stun-breaker. Condi-removal is secondary. Escape is my third priority. Stomping assistance comes as a bonus if it’s available. I leave the preparatory teleports to Infiltrator’s Strike and off-site Shadow Trap. But to each his own.

But I can see a simple workaround to make both parts of Shadowstep helpful with condi… however powerful it may be. On the activation of Shadowstep, give the Thief 10 seconds of Resistance. On the activation of Shadow Return, cure 3 conditions and remove Resistance. Bada-bing! :-D

BlaqueFyre.5678:

make the Condi clear whenever you use a shadowstep

I’m in favor of this concept! :-D

AegisFLCL.7623:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That is because you’re not using it as intended.

You suppose to engage (or re-engage) with Shadowstep so when you get loaded with conditions, you can use the return to remove them.

Placing the condi-removal on first activation will have the same problem when Thieves uses it to engage.

You’re just creating a cyclical problem when you’re suppose to instead just use it as intended.

Please spare me the “I’m best thief NA” before you even reply…

What part of me reply you’re quoting? I don’t see anywhere that I even made that claim.

That is flat out not true. First off you’re blowing a long cd stun break when you can engage any number of ways to melee range (bar running staff where this could be considered useful).

That doesn’t change the fact that it was made with the intention to engage and condi-removal on disengage.

Second, Shadowstep is far more useful as a disengaging/repositioning tool.

Then I will argue that you’re blowing a long cd stun break just to reposition when you can reposition any number of ways. You see, your first reasoning debunked your second argument.

No matter which way you put it, on paper or in practice, it will always be more useful to disengage/reposition. And therefor frontloading the condi removal would be a good QoL improvement, especially with the existing meta and not being able to instantly faceroll.

That perception is too narrow. If you get stunned and your target runs away, this is a good time to use SS to break the stun and re-engage, thus if you get loaded with conditions on re-engagement, you can return to remove the conditions.

Besides, Infiltrator’s Signet is a better stun break with a very low cooldown — if you don’t have DD, otherwise Bandit’s Defense is even better.

Conditions can be removed by the right traits on evades or using Tricks.

In a sense, you’re using a very long cd skill just for disengage/repositioning.

Like I said, you’re only creating a cyclical problem.

If anything I think it’d be better to argue removing the condi removal from this skill all together and building it into another utility skill. As the skill exist now the way the condi removal function just seems like it was tacked on because they didn’t know where else to put it.

SS is an obsolete skill that needs to be redesigned. The cd is ridiculous for a utility skill. I agree that this skills should have the cleanse removed but the cooldown needs to be reduced to 15s (same cd as Bandit’s Defense). However making another utility skill that removes conditions is unnecessary and redundant since there’s already many ways to remove conditions.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Hell I’ll do one better, make the Condi clear whenever you use a shadowstep a trait, and make it affect all Shadowstep abilities. Muahahahaha

Haha, now that’s a QoL worth praising. Remove Venom Aura and replace it with Cleansing Shadow that removes one condition on shadowstep. Then delete the Shadowstep utility skill.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That is because you’re not using it as intended.

You suppose to engage (or re-engage) with Shadowstep so when you get loaded with conditions, you can use the return to remove them.

Placing the condi-removal on first activation will have the same problem when Thieves uses it to engage.

You’re just creating a cyclical problem when you’re suppose to instead just use it as intended.

Please spare me the “I’m best thief NA” before you even reply…

What part of me reply you’re quoting? I don’t see anywhere that I even made that claim.

That is flat out not true. First off you’re blowing a long cd stun break when you can engage any number of ways to melee range (bar running staff where this could be considered useful).

That doesn’t change the fact that it was made with the intention to engage and condi-removal on disengage.

Second, Shadowstep is far more useful as a disengaging/repositioning tool.

Then I will argue that you’re blowing a long cd stun break just to reposition when you can reposition any number of ways. You see, your first reasoning debunked your second argument.

No matter which way you put it, on paper or in practice, it will always be more useful to disengage/reposition. And therefor frontloading the condi removal would be a good QoL improvement, especially with the existing meta and not being able to instantly faceroll.

That perception is too narrow. If you get stunned and your target runs away, this is a good time to use SS to break the stun and re-engage, thus if you get loaded with conditions on re-engagement, you can return to remove the conditions.

Besides, Infiltrator’s Signet is a better stun break with a very low cooldown — if you don’t have DD, otherwise Bandit’s Defense is even better.

Conditions can be removed by the right traits on evades or using Tricks.

In a sense, you’re using a very long cd skill just for disengage/repositioning.

Like I said, you’re only creating a cyclical problem.

If anything I think it’d be better to argue removing the condi removal from this skill all together and building it into another utility skill. As the skill exist now the way the condi removal function just seems like it was tacked on because they didn’t know where else to put it.

SS is an obsolete skill that needs to be redesigned. The cd is ridiculous for a utility skill. I agree that this skills should have the cleanse removed but the cooldown needs to be reduced to 15s (same cd as Bandit’s Defense). However making another utility skill that removes conditions is unnecessary and redundant since there’s already many ways to remove conditions.

I was about to agree with you until the end. No way.

The thief has access to good cleansing only on a few builds, notably in D/P DD. Anything else, especially core thief, cleansing is objectively the worst in the game, despite the low health pool.

We don’t need to see D/P with an even safer disengage/reengage pattern. I get this would push emphasis off the shortbow, but the cooldown being anything lower than 50s would make a thief almost impossible to catch up with unless it’s by another thief also running SS, in which case, that’s locking an already high-demand/overused utility into something even more powerful.

Shadowstep doesn’t so much need love in that regard so much as the thief needs better burst condition cleansing options for anything that isn’t Daredevil. Either this comes across the board from multiple trait lines, or potentially a utility which burst cleanses like Cleansing Fire or something along those lines.

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That is because you’re not using it as intended.

You suppose to engage (or re-engage) with Shadowstep so when you get loaded with conditions, you can use the return to remove them.

Placing the condi-removal on first activation will have the same problem when Thieves uses it to engage.

You’re just creating a cyclical problem when you’re suppose to instead just use it as intended.

Please spare me the “I’m best thief NA” before you even reply…

What part of me reply you’re quoting? I don’t see anywhere that I even made that claim.

That is flat out not true. First off you’re blowing a long cd stun break when you can engage any number of ways to melee range (bar running staff where this could be considered useful).

That doesn’t change the fact that it was made with the intention to engage and condi-removal on disengage.

Second, Shadowstep is far more useful as a disengaging/repositioning tool.

Then I will argue that you’re blowing a long cd stun break just to reposition when you can reposition any number of ways. You see, your first reasoning debunked your second argument.

No matter which way you put it, on paper or in practice, it will always be more useful to disengage/reposition. And therefor frontloading the condi removal would be a good QoL improvement, especially with the existing meta and not being able to instantly faceroll.

That perception is too narrow. If you get stunned and your target runs away, this is a good time to use SS to break the stun and re-engage, thus if you get loaded with conditions on re-engagement, you can return to remove the conditions.

Besides, Infiltrator’s Signet is a better stun break with a very low cooldown — if you don’t have DD, otherwise Bandit’s Defense is even better.

Conditions can be removed by the right traits on evades or using Tricks.

In a sense, you’re using a very long cd skill just for disengage/repositioning.

Like I said, you’re only creating a cyclical problem.

If anything I think it’d be better to argue removing the condi removal from this skill all together and building it into another utility skill. As the skill exist now the way the condi removal function just seems like it was tacked on because they didn’t know where else to put it.

SS is an obsolete skill that needs to be redesigned. The cd is ridiculous for a utility skill. I agree that this skills should have the cleanse removed but the cooldown needs to be reduced to 15s (same cd as Bandit’s Defense). However making another utility skill that removes conditions is unnecessary and redundant since there’s already many ways to remove conditions.

I was about to agree with you until the end. No way.

The thief has access to good cleansing only on a few builds, notably in D/P DD. Anything else, especially core thief, cleansing is objectively the worst in the game, despite the low health pool.

We don’t need to see D/P with an even safer disengage/reengage pattern. I get this would push emphasis off the shortbow, but the cooldown being anything lower than 50s would make a thief almost impossible to catch up with unless it’s by another thief also running SS, in which case, that’s locking an already high-demand/overused utility into something even more powerful.

Shadowstep doesn’t so much need love in that regard so much as the thief needs better burst condition cleansing options for anything that isn’t Daredevil. Either this comes across the board from multiple trait lines, or potentially a utility which burst cleanses like Cleansing Fire or something along those lines.

s/d traited for trickery has ample cleansing. RFI/Withdraw/Scorpion wire/Haste all work good in this build. You can trait the escapists for even more cleanse but I find it not needed. Acro line PR gives extra cleanse every 20 seconds. Trait up upper hand and you got more regen coming in plus INI. UC keeps off chill crippled and immobile.

This build tends to have high INI so can spam infiltrators in sequence if required.

babazhook.6805:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That is because you’re not using it as intended.

You suppose to engage (or re-engage) with Shadowstep so when you get loaded with conditions, you can use the return to remove them.

Placing the condi-removal on first activation will have the same problem when Thieves uses it to engage.

You’re just creating a cyclical problem when you’re suppose to instead just use it as intended.

Please spare me the “I’m best thief NA” before you even reply…

What part of me reply you’re quoting? I don’t see anywhere that I even made that claim.

That is flat out not true. First off you’re blowing a long cd stun break when you can engage any number of ways to melee range (bar running staff where this could be considered useful).

That doesn’t change the fact that it was made with the intention to engage and condi-removal on disengage.

Second, Shadowstep is far more useful as a disengaging/repositioning tool.

Then I will argue that you’re blowing a long cd stun break just to reposition when you can reposition any number of ways. You see, your first reasoning debunked your second argument.

No matter which way you put it, on paper or in practice, it will always be more useful to disengage/reposition. And therefor frontloading the condi removal would be a good QoL improvement, especially with the existing meta and not being able to instantly faceroll.

That perception is too narrow. If you get stunned and your target runs away, this is a good time to use SS to break the stun and re-engage, thus if you get loaded with conditions on re-engagement, you can return to remove the conditions.

Besides, Infiltrator’s Signet is a better stun break with a very low cooldown — if you don’t have DD, otherwise Bandit’s Defense is even better.

Conditions can be removed by the right traits on evades or using Tricks.

In a sense, you’re using a very long cd skill just for disengage/repositioning.

Like I said, you’re only creating a cyclical problem.

If anything I think it’d be better to argue removing the condi removal from this skill all together and building it into another utility skill. As the skill exist now the way the condi removal function just seems like it was tacked on because they didn’t know where else to put it.

SS is an obsolete skill that needs to be redesigned. The cd is ridiculous for a utility skill. I agree that this skills should have the cleanse removed but the cooldown needs to be reduced to 15s (same cd as Bandit’s Defense). However making another utility skill that removes conditions is unnecessary and redundant since there’s already many ways to remove conditions.

I was about to agree with you until the end. No way.

The thief has access to good cleansing only on a few builds, notably in D/P DD. Anything else, especially core thief, cleansing is objectively the worst in the game, despite the low health pool.

We don’t need to see D/P with an even safer disengage/reengage pattern. I get this would push emphasis off the shortbow, but the cooldown being anything lower than 50s would make a thief almost impossible to catch up with unless it’s by another thief also running SS, in which case, that’s locking an already high-demand/overused utility into something even more powerful.

Shadowstep doesn’t so much need love in that regard so much as the thief needs better burst condition cleansing options for anything that isn’t Daredevil. Either this comes across the board from multiple trait lines, or potentially a utility which burst cleanses like Cleansing Fire or something along those lines.

s/d traited for trickery has ample cleansing. RFI/Withdraw/Scorpion wire/Haste all work good in this build. You can trait the escapists for even more cleanse but I find it not needed. Acro line PR gives extra cleanse every 20 seconds. Trait up upper hand and you got more regen coming in plus INI. UC keeps off chill crippled and immobile.

This build tends to have high INI so can spam infiltrators in sequence if required.

^this, nuff said.