Hero {} Roleplayer {} Friend {} Professional Princess Saver
https://twitter.com/TalathionEQ2
https://twitter.com/TalathionEQ2
Remove Revealed.
interesting idea. i have to 2nd this.
wait until we see that the trap actually does first before introducing troll bait like this.
11 days….then we get to find out how angry we will be lol
11 days….then we get to find out how angry we will be lol
Pretty much this.
With the new traps coming into play, revealed should be completely removed, its not needed anymore if you can trap a stealthed foe.
Known for continually introducing thief changes that would be OP, including suggesting that thieves get all deceptions skills on f2 3 and 4 leaving them to choose other utilities for free and suggesting that a thief be able to steal an entire other profession’s utility bar and use all utilities twice in a row with improvisation.
interesting idea. i have to 2nd this.
Someone who is also constantly on the outlook for how thief is worse than other classes and ignores how thief outperforms others in the same way.
Please, wait until the change is instituted before you suggest anything waaay overboard like…this…holy mother of god
With the new traps coming into play, revealed should be completely removed, its not needed anymore if you can trap a stealthed foe.
lets see how it plays out first, but even if it is bad reveal debuff should never be completly removed lowered perhaps but not removed (if anyone can remove you from stealth if), but again lets see first ^^
With the new traps coming into play, revealed should be completely removed, its not needed anymore if you can trap a stealthed foe.
Known for continually introducing thief changes that would be OP, including suggesting that thieves get all deceptions skills on f2 3 and 4 leaving them to choose other utilities for free and suggesting that a thief be able to steal an entire other profession’s utility bar and use all utilities twice in a row with improvisation.
interesting idea. i have to 2nd this.
Someone who is also constantly on the outlook for how thief is worse than other classes and ignores how thief outperforms others in the same way.
Please, wait until the change is instituted before you suggest anything waaay overboard like…this…holy mother of god
i dont say thieves are worse at everything. never anywhere even once. i never said thieves are teh best at certain things. ill even make a list:
Best at :
1) In combat mobility
2) Stealthing
am i missing any?
Based on speculation of what the trap will be. Its a trap, so it will be for a selected area, which means thieves will have a major disadvantage in these areas. That said, If you remove the revealed buff that would make thieves very powerful outside of these “traps” or fields.
Also depending on how it works, if it takes you out of stealth and keeps you out of stealth, you can’t get the revealed debuff.
IMO people trying to talk reasoning, don’t bother…there will always be the sky is falling threads any time something effects thieves. Any good thief won’t care and adapt. We did it when revealed was push to 4s, the mug thieves are doing it now. The more people that comment on this matter the more overhead the thread will get, just let it get buried.
[KnT] – Knight Gaming – Blackgate
Zikory – Retired Thief
Zikkro – Zergling Necromancer
Zikory – Retired Thief
Zikkro – Zergling Necromancer
These won’t just grow on trees. They’ll have to be bought from a merchant. We have no idea of how long they take to build or how large their radius is. Either way, they’ll likely only be useful for zerg vs zerg in any reasonable capacity. Thieves don’t typically rely on stealth for these anyway as they tend to use ranged weapon sets.
~Shadowkat
ranged? :P not as much…maybe blast finishing pre battle buffs. i think as long as it takes like 3 people to set up a anti stealth field …thieves will survive the hit just fine.
With the new traps coming into play, revealed should be completely removed, its not needed anymore if you can trap a stealthed foe.
Known for continually introducing thief changes that would be OP, including suggesting that thieves get all deceptions skills on f2 3 and 4 leaving them to choose other utilities for free and suggesting that a thief be able to steal an entire other profession’s utility bar and use all utilities twice in a row with improvisation.
interesting idea. i have to 2nd this.
Someone who is also constantly on the outlook for how thief is worse than other classes and ignores how thief outperforms others in the same way.
Please, wait until the change is instituted before you suggest anything waaay overboard like…this…holy mother of god
i dont say thieves are worse at everything. never anywhere even once. i never said thieves are teh best at certain things. ill even make a list:
Best at :
1) In combat mobility
2) Stealthingam i missing any?
Single target burst. Escaping. Resetting fights. Scouting. Killing the already weak. Evasion. Bleed stacking. Blast finishing. Subterfuge. Chasing targets.
You missed a lot. That isn’t even a complete list.
well i was talkign skills/dmg/healing/abilities/mechanics ….not scouting…leading….commanding…..camp capping…..point bunkerings…more of the tangible.
anyway. burst belongs more to warriors/mesmers. blurr and shatter outdo thief and so does warrior…wont even bother going into kill shot builds. thief is close to warrior tho…very very close 3rd. the only burst a thief has is CnD BS. anyway big difference in zerkers THIEF 10.8k hp. wwarrior 18.Xk hp mesmer 16.8k hp. yeah i guess u could add bleed stacking in there..but just bleeds. condis goes to necros/engies. chasing targets goes to warrriors. subterfuge is partof in combat mobility . so a thief leads : bleed stacking…..in combat mobility and stealthing…. even tho the last 2 are kinda part of each other :P …
well i was talkign skills/dmg/healing/abilities/mechanics ….not scouting…leading….commanding…..camp capping…..point bunkerings…more of the tangible.
What?!?
anyway. burst belongs more to warriors/mesmers.
No, thieves burst harder, and more reliably. The amount of QQ that comes from thief instagib vastly outnumbers the QQ from mesmer shatters or warrior killshots.
blurr and shatter outdo thief and so does warrior…wont even bother going into kill shot builds. thief is close to warrior tho…very very close 3rd. the only burst a thief has is CnD BS.
You forgetting heartseeker spam afterwards? Yes you are. You’re also forgetting assassin’s signet and other damage modifiers, like executioner for example. And that in order to burst as hard warriors need a full bar of adrenaline and mesmers need all their clones and phantasms up.
anyway big difference in zerkers THIEF 10.8k hp. wwarrior 18.Xk hp mesmer 16.8k hp.
Does HP tell the whole story? Well I guess since GUARDIANS have 10.8k HP they must be less of tanks than warriors right?
yeah i guess u could add bleed stacking in there..but just bleeds. condis goes to necros/engies.
Bleed is the highest viable fully stacked DoT in the game.
chasing targets goes to warrriors.
Are you kidding me?
Let’s have a contest. If my thief can’t get away from your warrior, you win. 20g. Want to take it up?
subterfuge is partof in combat mobility.
No it’s not. They’re two different things.
nobody good brings assassins signet. and yes warrior is the best at SPRINTING AWAY. we arent talkign stealth bc with stealth u dont have to run away. are you dumb? seriously stealth has NOTHING to do with “running away” its a free pass. no sprint no rush no leap no running no swiftness no teleport involved. lets have a race….ill get a lvl 80 warrior and you a lvl 80 thief. we will race from SW spawn of any borderlands up and around and back down to the SE spawn of same borderlands. ill bet you 100g that you(thief) will NOT win. im so serious about this. im on dragonbrand server. i really hope you take this bet.
and your a hypocrite? subterfuge isnt part of in combat mobility but its part of leaving combat mobility to get away? hows that work? :P
again you missed the point? the HP shows a big deal.. thief is def not the best burst….bc in my opinion burst is more than a 2 skill combo. and im willing to bet the probability of both CND and BS successfully hittin consecutively are around well less than 25%. CND misses easily 50% and BS as well….between blocks….dodges…evades….stunbreak skills….blinds….invulenrabilty….aegis…. runnign away….or hitting front(issues on both). so im sure uve been thru hs algebra ya? .50×.50 is .25 (25%). lets say 40% is average crit rate for all thief builds (non condi builds) and lets now figure out the crit chance of hitting 2 successful crits on both skills. so our equation is {P(A+B) = P(A) x P(B)} so we now fill it in. Y = {.4(.5) x .4(.5)} math done…. Y= .04 ….so a 4% chance having both hit AND both crit.
can i ask how old you are? you seem to only respond to my posts….major trolling. im guessing well younger than me.
ps nobody spams HS. i only use it personally when under 25% hp aka a finishing blow. and the hp is like what 40% less or whatever for similar to less dps than warrior? hrm. armor same deal.
nobody good brings assassins signet.
Subjective view. “No one good brings assassin’s signet”? We are talking about single target burst potential builds. AS is nearly essential for such a build.
and yes warrior is the best at SPRINTING AWAY. we arent talkign stealth bc with stealth u dont have to run away. are you dumb? seriously stealth has NOTHING to do with “running away” its a free pass. no sprint no rush no leap no running no swiftness no teleport involved. lets have a race….ill get a lvl 80 warrior and you a lvl 80 thief. we will race from SW spawn of any borderlands up and around and back down to the SE spawn of same borderlands. ill bet you 100g that you(thief) will NOT win. im so serious about this. im on dragonbrand server. i really hope you take this bet.
Not interested in semantics. I didn’t mean sprinting away, nor did I mean a race. What I meant, and I think you knew, was escaping. Oh wait, that was the exact word I used in my original post. I didn’t say “running away”. I said escaping.
I also said they are better at chasing targets, which they are. I’m not afraid of a warrior coming after me when I’m down to 40% health. But you know what, I’m afraid of a thief.
and your a hypocrite? subterfuge isnt part of in combat mobility but its part of leaving combat mobility to get away? hows that work? :P
you’re*
Also I think you need to look up the definition of subterfuge.
Deception, in other words. Thieves have an entire set of utilities called “deception”
again you missed the point? the HP shows a big deal.. thief is def not the best burst….bc in my opinion burst is more than a 2 skill combo. and im willing to bet the probability of both CND and BS successfully hittin consecutively are around well less than 25%. CND misses easily 50% and BS as well….between blocks….dodges…evades….stunbreak skills….blinds….invulenrabilty….aegis…. runnign away….or hitting front(issues on both). so im sure uve been thru hs algebra ya? .50×.50 is .25 (25%). lets say 40% is average crit rate for all thief builds (non condi builds) and lets now figure out the crit chance of hitting 2 successful crits on both skills. so our equation is {P(A+B) = P(A) x P(B)} so we now fill it in. Y = {.4(.5) x .4(.5)} math done…. Y= .04 ….so a 4% chance having both hit AND both crit.
What in the world are you talking about, stop fabricating numbers. You listed the profession HPs as if they meant anything. So let me ask you, the warrior having 18k base health compared to the guardian’s 10.8k, (same as the thief incidentally) does that make the warrior more survivable than a guardian? Well? Does it?
ps nobody spams HS. i only use it personally when under 25% hp aka a finishing blow. and the hp is like what 40% less or whatever for similar to less dps than warrior? hrm. armor same deal.
AKA after the mug CnD BS burst from a full glass thief.
can i ask how old you are? you seem to only respond to my posts….major trolling. im guessing well younger than me.
19, and I study at an ivy league university, if that makes a difference because obviously my age occuption moral character and other personal details about my life make difference to my arguments. Also I respond because you’re wrong.
With the new traps coming into play, revealed should be completely removed, its not needed anymore if you can trap a stealthed foe.
Known for continually introducing thief changes that would be OP, including suggesting that thieves get all deceptions skills on f2 3 and 4 leaving them to choose other utilities for free and suggesting that a thief be able to steal an entire other profession’s utility bar and use all utilities twice in a row with improvisation.
interesting idea. i have to 2nd this.
Someone who is also constantly on the outlook for how thief is worse than other classes and ignores how thief outperforms others in the same way.
Please, wait until the change is instituted before you suggest anything waaay overboard like…this…holy mother of god
I feel like, while you have a good point in saying that we shouldn’t get ahead of ourselves, you go against your own wisdom in going overboard with anti-Daecollo and Travlane preachings.
I do not agree with EVERYTHING these two individuals have to say regarding the Thief class (everyone has their own point of view) but they do a good job at starting conversation over things that should be conversed about. The fact that they do this does not make it okay for you to bash on them and portray them in such a negative light.
Edit: I’m sorry if this comment seemed a little one-sided, but I feel very strongly that you, Teamkiller, are the one that started a pseudo-argument over something as trivial as this. People will post what they will in the forums. That’s what forums are for. A place where people will discuss what matters to them or what could matter to others. Singling out people as “whiners” or anything along those lines is not cool and shouldn’t be tolerated. If their posts don’t coincide with your beliefs about the Thief class, don’t read their posts.
Wow, I think I got one-sided again. Woops xD
Blackgate – Asuran Thief – Pentalic The Silent
“A wise man once said something. No one paid attention.”
“A wise man once said something. No one paid attention.”
(edited by Pentalic.5409)
With the new traps coming into play, revealed should be completely removed, its not needed anymore if you can trap a stealthed foe.
Known for continually introducing thief changes that would be OP, including suggesting that thieves get all deceptions skills on f2 3 and 4 leaving them to choose other utilities for free and suggesting that a thief be able to steal an entire other profession’s utility bar and use all utilities twice in a row with improvisation.
interesting idea. i have to 2nd this.
Someone who is also constantly on the outlook for how thief is worse than other classes and ignores how thief outperforms others in the same way.
Please, wait until the change is instituted before you suggest anything waaay overboard like…this…holy mother of god
I feel like, while you have a good point in saying that we shouldn’t get ahead of ourselves, you go against your own wisdom in going overboard with anti-Daecollo and Travlane preachings.
I do not agree with EVERYTHING these two individuals have to say regarding the Thief class (everyone has their own point of view) but they do a good job at starting conversation over thing that should be conversed about. The fact that they do this does not make it okay for you to bash on them and portray them in such a negative light.Edit: I’m sorry if this comment seemed a little one-sided, but I feel very strongly that you, Teamkiller, are the one that started a pseudo-argument over something as trivial as this. People will post what they will in the forums. That’s what forums are for. A place where people will discuss what matters to them or what could matter to others. Singling out people as “whiners” or anything along those lines is not cool and shouldn’t be tolerated. If their posts don’t coincide with your beliefs about the Thief class, don’t read their posts.
Wow, I think I got one-sided again. Woops xD
Yeah, my bad about that. I was arguing against the people and not the arguments.
Although removing revealed would be quite overpowered.
Yeah, my bad about that. I was arguing against the people and not the arguments.
Although removing revealed would be quite overpowered.
I agree you on that point. Back when Revealed wasn’t in the game, it felt almost too easy to pull off certain stealth combos. With the knowledge and practice we have with the Thief class now, there’s no telling how much QQ we’ll bring up if Revealed is taken out.
Blackgate – Asuran Thief – Pentalic The Silent
“A wise man once said something. No one paid attention.”
“A wise man once said something. No one paid attention.”
thief burst requires perfect variables…..warriors/mesmers just go at it. thief dps is the most unreliable of the 3 classes topping the category. only dagger is fast enough to stack up with warrior. 1hs pistol and bow are sloooooooooooow lol (part of which is buggy i think due to “.25s” activations acting like 1 sec activations.
thief burst requires perfect variables…..warriors/mesmers just go at it. thief dps is the most unreliable of the 3 classes topping the category. only dagger is fast enough to stack up with warrior. 1hs pistol and bow are sloooooooooooow lol (part of which is buggy i think due to “.25s” activations acting like 1 sec activations.
I think this paragraph means you have no idea what you are talking about. Go play a Mesmer and you’ll see why.
Edit: Okay then, here’s your reason – compare Mesmer/Warrior burst to Thief burst
Thief
Steal CnD Backstab – Yes it’s possible to dodge this, but the window is less than 1 second.
Mesmer
3 Clone shatter – Mesmer needs to get into melee, put 3 clones up, then shatter. This takes pretty long and doesn’t even do as much damage as the Thief combo. If you want to be fancy you can press Mirror Images and F3 shatter for lots of vulnerability, but that uses up one of your stun breakers, and a lot of endurance for Deceptive Evasion. It also takes a pretty long time to do.
Warrior
100 Blades = dodge. I think everyone knows this.
It’s hardly ‘easier’ to dodge a Thief’s burst.
The reason I reply to your posts so much, is because you tend to be wrong. I don’t care too much for all the more theoretical posts (e.g. Is Stealth equivalent to perma protection, cause who the heck really knows), but when you post, it’s full of factual errors. Does that make sense?
(edited by Sunflowers.1729)
i didnt say m esmer was reliable. but more reliable. when all 3 play burst mesmer and warrior ahve so much more hp which leaves room for mistakes and gives extra time to stay on the offensive. for instance if all classes take 1k dmg per second and all 3 classes are on the offense….which class has to stop first and enter defensive/heal/escape mode? also those 3 weapons are super slow…if u dont think so ur just wrong…srry its a well know fact. there are several threads about the issue too. so how exactly do i not know what im talking about mr troll sir? you know that like 80% of your messages are in response to mine? you have a thing for me or something? they all hate too….not only hate they have no content to them. give an example dont just hate. say “you are wrong bc bleh bleh bleh” not "you know nothign…i am sunflowers…the end " lol cmon man bring something to the table i dont mind a good debate or a different point of view. and there is no law of the world that says i am invariably correct on this topic or any just as there is none that makes you so. get of your high horse . holy wow.
i didnt say m esmer was reliable. but more reliable. when all 3 play burst mesmer and warrior ahve so much more hp which leaves room for mistakes and gives extra time to stay on the offensive. for instance if all classes take 1k dmg per second and all 3 classes are on the offense….which class has to stop first and enter defensive/heal/escape mode? also those 3 weapons are super slow…if u dont think so ur just wrong…srry its a well know fact. there are several threads about the issue too. so how exactly do i not know what im talking about mr troll sir? you know that like 80% of your messages are in response to mine? you have a thing for me or something? they all hate too….not only hate they have no content to them. give an example dont just hate. say “you are wrong bc bleh bleh bleh” not "you know nothign…i am sunflowers…the end " lol cmon man bring something to the table i dont mind a good debate or a different point of view. and there is no law of the world that says i am invariably correct on this topic or any just as there is none that makes you so. get of your high horse . holy wow.
I would just like to point out mesmers only have one higher rank for hp than thieves do, but thieve’s armor is a rank higher than mesmers, so they would have about the same room for mistakes.
i didnt say m esmer was reliable. but more reliable. when all 3 play burst mesmer and warrior ahve so much more hp which leaves room for mistakes and gives extra time to stay on the offensive.
Whereas thieves can enter in stealth and avoid a massive proportion of the damage that a mesmer or a warrior would otherwise take to go on the offensive. They have the luxury of landing the first strike in each engagement, whereas the warrior and mesmer have to set up their bursts. In the case of warrior it is easier because they have utilities to raise their adrenaline to full, but they still have to gap close. Mesmers have to summon all clones and phantasms and then sword 2 to immobilize to do their burst.
for instance if all classes take 1k dmg per second and all 3 classes are on the offense….which class has to stop first and enter defensive/heal/escape mode?
Why is this a bad thing? For the record, thieves have higher healing than warriors regarding most specs. Shadow’s rejuvenation and low CD heal per second, not to mention their massive uptime on stealth.
So I ask you again, which class is more sustainable? Warrior or Guardian? Which class is tankier? Well the answer is guardian. Even though they have 10.8k HP. The reason is, unlike warrior, they have a ton of tools at their disposal to utterly mitigate damage. The thief has the same idea in mind; their tools are stealth and evasion. If you have trouble avoiding damage in stealth you are either terrible or you are playing someone who is good or counters your class with aoe. Neither means the thief is bad.
i will admit i have only played mesmer prolly 40 or so matches so my personal playtime is limited on them but im talking on full zerk builds where thieves hve 10.8k hp warriors 17.9k hp and mesmers 16.8k hp. thieves also have very low toughness as base. u will always hit a thief harder than a mesmer and then theres the Hp difference. im not complaining or anything just cant wait til they up thief base damage so we can more freely trait ourselves without worrying about dmg so much.(as they ahve stated)
@teamkiller true but higher hp…higher armor..access to boons and blocks is the trade off.
but while a warrior is doing MOST of that he can stillb e on the offensive…a thief in stealth is still taking dmg (bc he still hast o be withing melee range to reapply stealth) if hes not hes running away to do the d/p combo. either way hes away and not doing dmg but possibly recieving some still which is very common.
thief defensive mode = no dmg but still receiving some
warrior defensive mode = still doing dmg and recieving some if not against thief.
its a trade off no matter how u look at it.
Look, I’m going to ask you once more, this is getting kinda ridiculous you keep on bringing up the HP values.
Which class is tankier. Which class has more sustain. Which class isn’t complete trash for spvp out of these two. Warrior or Guardian?
Once more I will remind you the HP values on these two classes. Warrior: 18k. Guardian, 10.8k.
Answer.
as i mentioned well before you….. and to have an answer there needs to be a question…which i have not asked. hence my message having no ?’s and being all statements. :P oh wait u were answering your own question which i already answered in several msgs earlier.
if ur going to ask me “this is getting kidna rediculous you keep on bringing up the hp values” …. i must say sorry….im not sure how to answer that :/
where are you guys getting info on new thief mechanics?
@hexs srry which are you talking about? been so much going on in these threads lately.
as i mentioned well before you….. and to have an answer there needs to be a question…
There is a question. Which class is tankier. Guardian or warrior.
which i have not asked. hence my message having no ?’s and being all statements. :P oh wait u were answering your own question which i already answered in several msgs earlier.
No, you haven’t. I’m asking a rhetorical question that serves to illustrate why I think you bringing up the HP values of thief mesmer and warrior to be trivial and the point you are trying to make is wrong.
if ur going to ask me “this is getting kidna rediculous you keep on bringing up the hp values” …. i must say sorry….im not sure how to answer that :/
There is a question in there, you can go find it. Here’s a hint, inquiries are sentences that end with “?” because I’m guessing that you didn’t know.
nope…no question mark in there or question without a question mark. i feel like im in a neverending wheres waldo ….trolled
Look, I’m going to ask you once more, this is getting kinda ridiculous you keep on bringing up the HP values.
Which class is tankier. Which class has more sustain. Which class isn’t complete trash for spvp out of these two. Warrior or Guardian? <—THIS IS THE QUESTION MARK
Once more I will remind you the HP values on these two classes. Warrior: 18k. Guardian, 10.8k.
Answer.
15 character limit
no that sounds stupid
Auger Claw (PvE/Spvp) – Thief
Notalkingplz (PvE/Spvp) – Guardian
Rough Trade (PvE)/Urok Ashpaw (Spvp) – Engineer
Notalkingplz (PvE/Spvp) – Guardian
Rough Trade (PvE)/Urok Ashpaw (Spvp) – Engineer
thought u said there was one in what you quoted on (which there wasnt)
the quote above the challenge to find a ? was ………
if ur going to ask me “this is getting kidna rediculous you keep on bringing up the hp values” …. i must say sorry….im not sure how to answer that :/
and i never asked….im not sure anyone did. other than you. which makes it irrelevant as you wouldnt need to type yourself an answer.
not being mean here so plz dont mistake my curiosity. you are bilingual right?
What in the world are you talking about, stop fabricating numbers. You listed the profession HPs as if they meant anything. So let me ask you, the warrior having 18k base health compared to the guardian’s 10.8k, (same as the thief incidentally) does that make the warrior more survivable than a guardian? Well? Does it?QUESTION MARKS RIGHT HERE
So I ask you again, which class is more sustainable? Warrior or Guardian?QUESTION MARKS RIGHT HERE BRO Which class is tankier? Well the answer is guardian. Even though they have 10.8k HP. The reason is, unlike warrior, they have a ton of tools at their disposal to utterly mitigate damage. The thief has the same idea in mind; their tools are stealth and evasion. If you have trouble avoiding damage in stealth you are either terrible or you are playing someone who is good or counters your class with aoe. Neither means the thief is bad.
If you are joking, this is a bad joke. There have been question marks in the past two posts before that as well. Asking the same question.
So, are you going to answer? Which class is tankier, warrior or Guardian? It doesn’t matter, because everyone already knows the answer, but the important part is that you know WHY the Guardian is tankier, and why the thief having 10.8k base HP is balanced and perfectly viable.
Edit: Yes, I am bilingual, but english is my most proficient language by far.
(edited by Teamkiller.4315)
it might be your most proficient language but its not your first language.
about answering yoru question there needs to be a mutual agreement on “tankier” definition. and how hp isnt “underpowerd” im not sure what the 2nd part means
it might be your most proficient language but its not your first language.
It’s*
Look I don’t know what your issue with my linguistic skill is, I’m clearly good enough with the language to converse eloquently and even rectify your grammatical blunders. I cannot fathom a reason as to why it should be called into question.
about answering yoru question there needs to be a mutual agreement on “tankier” definition. and how hp isnt “underpowerd” im not sure what the 2nd part means
What’s with this over convoluted…my good god.
OK how about this. Given equal skill which class is FAR more likely to win a fight. Warrior or Guardian?
your grammar is ok but its tough to infer what you are trying to “get at” sometimes thats all. you are not bad but i figured u were not primarily English. not a dig….just hard to get what u mean. im not digging into you…u are ….80% of your messages are attacking me…even that other guy said something about it. not just me seeing it.
so back to business what do we define tanky as?
equal player skill? hrm….. its a really close fight to be honest….i think guardian gets the edge 55-45
I’m done asking you rhetorical questions. Also, my English is far better than yours, as long as we go by the structure of our respective posts.
Here are the statements:
Currently Guardian would beat Warrior far more than the converse (No, it is not 55 45 in favor of the guardian, it is far more than that). Even though guardians have lower DPS and Warriors have higher DPS, and that guardians have 7.2k less base HP than warriors. Not only this, but guardians are the main tPvP bunker class, as in they can hold and last at a point for the longest amount of time given adequate build and player skill, while warrior cannot do that, but also cannot do anything else effectively in tPvP.
This is all possible with the guardian having 10.8k base HP and the warrior having 18k base HP.
So now, what was your point about thieves having 10.8k base HP compared to the warrior’s 18k? It means Nothing? That’s right. That’s my point.
the question was not in the rhetoric sense. it was qualifying a term that needed it. it could have been player skill or class skills or traits . nvm anyway…. but i asked u to define “tanky” so we can avoid arguments that are about to follow.
a guardian actually has a pretty high DPS if u add in burning and retaliation damage … its hard bc its not direct dmg and depends on build/gear. lets put it this way ill categorize it into major areas and see why guardian is better overal 1 is the crappiest and 10 is the absoluet best it can be in game.
CLASS —HP--HEALS—DEFENSE—-DPS—-BOONS—-DMG MITIGATION
WAR——10——-5—————-8——————9————5———————6
GUARD—3——10—————10—————-6———-10——————-10
GUARD : total avg = 8
WARR: total avg =7
hence me giving warrior 45% win chance and guardian 55% its close but guardian should win by a little bit.
see what i mean whenu look at it in a mathematical sense?
now let me do thieves/warriors
CLASS——————ATTACK—————DEFENSE—————HP
WARR———————-9——————————9—————————10
THIEF————————9——————————5—————————-2
so if the stats are “roughly” rated like that IT DOES MATTER>….if HP DIDNT MATTER THEY WOULD GIVE THIEVES THE SAME AMOUNT lol…..cmon hp DOES matter
the question was not in the rhetoric sense. it was qualifying a term that needed it. it could have been player skill or class skills or traits . nvm anyway…. but i asked u to define “tanky” so we can avoid arguments that are about to follow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question
A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question that is asked in order to make a point."
Which is exactly what I wanted to do.
a guardian actually has a pretty high DPS if u add in burning and retaliation damage … its hard bc its not direct dmg and depends on build/gear. lets put it this way ill categorize it into major areas and see why guardian is better overal 1 is the crappiest and 10 is the absoluet best it can be in game.
I didn’t say that it doesn’t? what I said is that a warrior has HIGHER dps than the guardian AND more hp, which is true. Yet, the guardian would win most of the times anyways.
see what i mean whenu look at it in a mathematical sense?
Sorry, but those numbers are completely arbitrary and don’t reflect what would happen. Actually some are just wrong. Why are warriors a 10 in HP but Guardians aren’t a 1? They have both the highest possible and lowest possible HP pools. If you answer “Armor” I’m going to say “that’s not part of HP, that’s part of something like damage mitigation, because armor is damage reduction”. Speaking of which, warirors have no damage reduction beyond pure armor and shield 5/endure pain, the latter which is on an over MINUTE cooldown, they do not have a reliable source of vigor and few condition cleanses available. So why is it that they have an 8 in defense and a 6 in damage mitigation? Both should be FAR lower. As for boons, warriors only have access to half the boons, only offensive ones at that. Again, defense is a joke because they have no access to prot, meaning they should definitely not have an EIGHT in defense. etc. etc. There are so many things wrong with that post above ^
I will implore you as to why this thread:
Exists if warriors beat guardians 45 percent of the time.
Oh and if warriors are only 7 why aren’t they taken in tpvp? Why are they considered the lowest of the low in tPvP?
(edited by Teamkiller.4315)
now let me do thieves/warriors
CLASS——————ATTACK—————DEFENSE—————HP
WARR———————-9——————————9—————————10
THIEF————————9——————————5—————————-2so if the stats are “roughly” rated like that IT DOES MATTER>….if HP DIDNT MATTER THEY WOULD GIVE THIEVES THE SAME AMOUNT lol…..cmon hp DOES matter
This is absolutely ridiculous. Why are thieves a 2 but guardians a 3 in HP if they both have the exact same HP?. Not to mention, you should be factoring in stealth and evasion to both damage mitigation AND defense. That is the thieves’ defense.
Also not all things are weighted equally, so you cannot take an unweighted average like that.
you were talking about my question being rhetorical so how could it be as you meant it when it was me who said it? i literally meant it to be answered bc i didnt know what you were meaning….LITERALLY.
you will implore me as to why? implore means beg……i think you mean you will show me why in the thread.
thief and warrior are considered low bc they dont have enough control. warrior is still ahead unless its a 1 v 1 scenario as AOE dmg wont automatically own them….why?(now its rhetorical)….its bc they have higher hp and higher defense so they have more time to do damage.
HP does matter. theres anotehr way of looking at this too. let count BLOCKS/HEALS/PROTECTION/INVUL/TOUGHNESS as extra HP. if u count the higher toughness (which means less dmg per hit) its a much higher HP pool for guardians. all the blocks? more hp that they have instead of losing. heals? add them to the hp pool too. if looked at like this (plus minus ratio) the warrior has like 40k hp and the guardian around 125k hp. so the trade off for guardians low hp low DIRECT dmg is high dmg mitigation (basically added HP)
sorry they both are a 2 in the hp pool then :P still doesnt change the average enough to make a difference lol….if there was only 1 category…sure….yes thief ele and guardian all start with liek 10805 hp…but eles/guards can take dmg forever….a thief has none of the tools they have…hence stealth giving them a chance to get out.
i only added 3 areas for the thief warrior comparison bc i was earlier talking about how thieves should have higher dmg than they have….even ANET agrees….or are they wrong too?
you will implore me as to why? implore means beg……i think you mean you will show me why in the thread.
yup, missed the words “implore you to tell me”. Oops, typo.
thief and warrior are considered low bc they dont have enough control. warrior is still ahead unless its a 1 v 1 scenario as AOE dmg wont automatically own them….why?(now its rhetorical)….its bc they have higher hp and higher defense so they have more time to do damage.
-_-
I have no idea what you’re even saying. Low in what?
HP does matter. theres anotehr way of looking at this too. let count BLOCKS/HEALS/PROTECTION/INVUL/TOUGHNESS as extra HP. if u count the higher toughness (which means less dmg per hit) its a much higher HP pool for guardians. all the blocks? more hp that they have instead of losing. heals? add them to the hp pool too. if looked at like this (plus minus ratio) the warrior has like 40k hp and the guardian around 125k hp. so the trade off for guardians low hp low DIRECT dmg is high dmg mitigation (basically added HP)
I didn’t say it DOESN’T. I said you have no point in pointing out warrior vs thief HP pools. I used the rhetorical question on guardian vs warrior to make my point as to why, citing Guardian’s higher survivability despite lowest base HP, same as the thief actually.
And if you want to play it that way, a thief has a very high amount of EHP too. You factor in all the stealths where the enemy cannot reliably hit the thief. Put that into damage mitigation. Factor the 15 s cooldown heal that cures roots and slows and evades, their evades, their WEAPON evades, shadowsteps, teleports, factor ALL of that in, and maybe you will see why warrior have higher base HP doesn’t mean they are any better at thieves at bursting or sustain.
1) We don’t know how this traps are going to work.
2) Traps won’t be everywhere in all enviroments. Removing reveal would allow us to chain CnD and the Stealth Attack constantly drastically increasing our DPS/CC capability/ Condition Output in all enviroments.
I want revealed to be reversed to 3 seconds in all enviroments. I also want revealed to be applied always even if you don’t attack which was their initial intention. But completly removing revealed is crazy (unless they tone stealth attacks so much that the auto-attack is better and make opponents see a blur of smoke in your position so they can see you even if you’re using permastealth). There must be some limits to stealth. Where those limits should be is debatable, but eliminating the limits breaks the system.
Let’s not overeact to this new traps thing. As far as we know they would only be usable inside fortifications which means no problem for roamers and only avoiding campers from remaining inside a fort.