Guild Wars 2

Last Refuge

Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches 25%.

The idea of it is great, but with the way it’s implemented, far more than half the time it ends up being “When your health reaches 25%, receive the Revealed penalty and waste your next Stealth skill.”

While all the stuff revealed in the stream of the upcoming specializations is a work in progress, the Shadow Arts Adept minor trait is still previewed to be an unchanged Last Refuge. This has long needed a change, and now seems to be a really active time for changing such things.

Blinding Powder itself can sometimes be difficult to not wastefully trigger Revealed on, but that can completely be trained and controlled. The single moment of hitting 25% health is an uncontrollable event, and exactly the time you don’t want a self-inflicted penalty and when you most want to reliably land a Stealth.

Lets hear some ideas about either reworking it or what to swap it with, and what ideas work or don’t work.

The smallest change that comes to my mind for preserving its naturally powerful effect is to append “and you cannot be Revealed for the next 1 second”. Mechanically, you still will break stealth if you land an attack. But disabling the Revealed debuff enables your next stealth to activate normally (this may also imply removing an existing Revealed debuff obstructing the trait). It will have no suicidally consequential penalty, but it’ll also have no penalty at all for what is arguably one of the best minor traits (most minor traits are not about penalizing). Don’t forget it has a cooldown that can be increased if deemed relevant.

I like the idea of “Hard to Catch”, but that too doesn’t work as a minor trait for potentially being a source of death instead of helping. So automated shadowsteps aren’t quite an alternative. I’d say “gain vigor and swiftness at 25% health” to turn it into a repositioning thing works. It’s less exciting, but thematically decent and useful.

It doesn’t have to be a trait for survivability, though that is what Shadow Arts is most focused on.

Suggestion: erase Last Refuge from existance once and for all, give us back Infusion of Shadows as a minor instead.

Lucky Shot.7650:

Suggestion: erase Last Refuge from existance once and for all, give us back Infusion of Shadows as a minor instead.

Another potential suggestion:

Remove the Last Refuge trait and instead put Cloaked in Shadow in it’s place. A replacement would have to be made for the now vacant Grand Master slot, but this suggestion still keeps the whole stealth focused theme of the trait AND doesn’t completely murder the D/D weapon set.

thieves have been complaining about last refuge since…the dawn of thieves
it’s like they completely overlooked this problem

Well now they could put in smoke screen and help save the thieves from pewpew rangers.

Really, put in infusion of shadows and if the 2 initiative proves too much, just reduce it to 1 initiative upon entering stealth.
Just why does this trait stick around?

Last Refuge: Gain Invulnerability and Resistance for 1 second upon taking lethal damage and use blinding powder. 60s CD.

So now it is a minimum of getting 2 shotted for taking this line.

WEXXES.2378:

Last Refuge: Gain Invulnerability and Resistance for 1 second upon taking lethal damage and use blinding powder. 60s CD.

Now its useful no matter what situation you are in.

We are thieves, no necromancers…

Well it they change last refuge to pop on downed. Concealed defeat might look a lot more nice thing to to have with.

LONGA.1652:

Well it they change last refuge to pop on downed. Concealed defeat might look a lot more nice thing to to have with.

Too op lol
I mean, combine it with concealed defeat and you have a smoke field, which gets blasted for a total of 7 seconds stealth.
Just who is supposed to stomp/dps down a thief, when the thief can just blink somewhere, start rezzing, and even if he gets found, he will still be stealthed for long enough to pop a downstate stealth and blink away again.

Mesmers decoy ability, which works similar to this, got placed at a threshold of 50%. They should increase this to 50% too, then if you do knock the stealth off and get a revealed debuff you still have enough hp to disengage.

In 2 years i never died because of this trait,reason they don’t change it,is because it doesn’t need to be changed !

Just make it ignore Revealed.
Fixed.

Duka.5864:

In 2 years i never died because of this trait,reason they don’t change it,is because it doesn’t need to be changed !

Personally never had a problem with it either, though I can see how it can be annoying and can cause death. I guess I should take the first part back, it was a minor nuisance here and there, when I really didn’t want to go into stealth or forgot about the trait, got into stealth because of it, had a damage skill queued, got revealed for 4 seconds – yeah died, but really most of those fights I would have died regardless of that trait. (queued or just spamming a skill silly, trying to get some damage off).

Sure the threat of it probably varies with playstyle, melee is probably less likely to have an attack mid-flight than projectiles. And I believe the majority of players play with autoattack-1 on.

I’m not too supportive of Cloaked in Shadow as the alternative, applying Blind to something nearby will put you in combat even if you weren’t intending to (unless they consider changing this behavior, but I think the current behavior is appropriate).

Infusion of Shadows on the other hand does make a lot of sense as a replacement, it focuses on two parts of the profession’s core mechanics, so it compliments far more builds. The initiative-on-stealth property wasn’t anywhere in the previewed changes though, so looks like they were considering removing it. It’s of course not too late for it as far as considering changes goes.

Duka.5864:

In 2 years i never died because of this trait,reason they don’t change it,is because it doesn’t need to be changed !

I call B-S.

naphack.9346:

Really, put in infusion of shadows and if the 2 initiative proves too much, just reduce it to 1 initiative upon entering stealth.
Just why does this trait stick around?

There’s a middle ground I can stand by.

Last refuge counter’s itself, please address it once and for all. I doesn’t matter if it sometimes works the way it should, the fact that it can and has caused players to reveal themselves should be grounds for removal. No minor trait should have the slightest negative effect.

What if Last Refuge simply bypassed Revealed or removed it before applying stealth?

yolo swaggins.2570:

What if Last Refuge simply bypassed Revealed or removed it before applying stealth?

That would be better.

The only nuisance I have with it at times is forgetting about it and during the heat of a fight going into stealth because of it, not realizing/reacting fast enough, and breaking stealth, causing me to get the revealed debuff. And since it triggers at 25% HP it pretty much means that those 3-4 seconds (during which I’m revealed) are very crucial/decisive in terms of survival. Having an unplanned reveal on you…

It could be helpful just adding a “buff” icon for it, that flashes or turns a bright red color (well eye-catching) when you reach 40%/33% to get you prepared that LR is about to pop – that would probably solve my issue/nuisance with it.

Have it drop smokescreen. It will protect you, won’t reveal you, and can be leap/blast finished.

Maugetarr.6823:

Have it drop smokescreen. It will protect you, won’t reveal you, and can be leap/blast finished.

Probably the easiest and best version to implement, swap out stealth with smokescreen.

And yeah the leap/blast finisher provides you stealth if needed – by choice. Though I can see this getting QQ’ed about.

What about Last Refuge replaces your Steal ability with Blinding Tuft (skill you get from stealing from thieves), which allow you to use it at the opportune time, plus it would keep the spirit of the trait.

It’s funny that they decided it’s perfectly balanced to let thieves have both panic strike and executioner. Nobody asked for it.
People have been asking for last refuge fix since the trait exists. I think most thieves would even accept the spot it has to be empty than to hilariously kill them so often.

robertul.3679:

It’s funny that they decided it’s perfectly balanced to let thieves have both panic strike and executioner. Nobody asked for it.
People have been asking for last refuge fix since the trait exists. I think most thieves would even accept the spot it has to be empty than to hilariously kill them so often.

QFT 1234

Lady Minuit.3186:

What about Last Refuge replaces your Steal ability with Blinding Tuft (skill you get from stealing from thieves), which allow you to use it at the opportune time, plus it would keep the spirit of the trait.

Replacing the steal ability with Blinding Tuft could also work. Though in a way that disables Steal – like you could disengage and dip by Stealing to/from a different further target. Plus what happens if you already have a stolen bundle (maybe saving it)?

you know the trait it garbage when players would rather have blank space instead of that trait

must be about only defensive trait in entire game that is designed to kill your character instead of helping it lol

Maugetarr.6823:

Have it drop smokescreen. It will protect you, won’t reveal you, and can be leap/blast finished.

I like this ^

Moving on to more extreme ideas…

(Change)
Last Refuge:
Blinding powder at 20% health threshold.
Reveal does not apply when less than 25% health threshold

(Replace)
Essence of Shadow:
Reveal decreases duration as health decreases.
< 75% health: Reveal lasts 2 seconds
< 50% health: Reveal lasts 1 second
< 25% health: Reveal is immediate with no duration

You could add another tier with 10% being having no Reveal duration. Or changing them to 33% and 66%, etc. That depending on how they want to implement it with pvp compared to the others.

The concept being that a thief becomes closer to becoming a “shade/shadow” as he nears death. While it can be a powerful tool for a thief to stay at low health, it is also an extreme risk. Shadow’s Rejuvenation can also make this more balanced due to the passive healing nature while in stealth, making it difficult for a thief to stay at such a low level of health for an extended duration.

But yeah… just thinking out loud here :-P

robertul.3679:

It’s funny that they decided it’s perfectly balanced to let thieves have both panic strike and executioner. Nobody asked for it.
People have been asking for last refuge fix since the trait exists. I think most thieves would even accept the spot it has to be empty than to hilariously kill them so often.

Adding Dhuumfire but not touching Reanimator? Same story

Okay, to be fair, having 5 points in death magic only caused party wipes when fighting Lupicus, while Last Refuge can kill you any time…

This stupid, idiotic piece of junk minor trait is infuriating! Fire an arrow, get knocked down to 25% health, while the arrow is still in flight, stealth, the arrow hits, I’m revealed. Same goes for Pistol shots…. and this has happened in the heat of battle COUNTLESS times!

Replace this trait with a line that reads “Out of order” and I’d be happy. Dumbest piece of junk trait in existence! Which one of you designers thought this garbage up? Not someone who plays thief, that’s for sure. Bottom line: NOT FUN.

Kageseigi.2150:

(Replace)
Essence of Shadow:
Reveal decreases duration as health decreases.
< 75% health: Reveal lasts 2 seconds
< 50% health: Reveal lasts 1 second
< 25% health: Reveal is immediate with no duration

Really liked this.
But I would lower it more, so its 2 seconds at 50% and 1 second at 25%.

As fun as it may be to talk about changing this trait, I doubt the devs are going to listen do it, since if the have/are listening we wouldn’t be here discussing it yet again…

Zero Day.2594:

Lady Minuit.3186:

What about Last Refuge replaces your Steal ability with Blinding Tuft (skill you get from stealing from thieves), which allow you to use it at the opportune time, plus it would keep the spirit of the trait.

Replacing the steal ability with Blinding Tuft could also work. Though in a way that disables Steal – like you could disengage and dip by Stealing to/from a different further target. Plus what happens if you already have a stolen bundle (maybe saving it)?

Yea that could mean you lose your current stolen ability.

OR, it could stack over it, similar to how the new improvisation will work where you get to use stolen items twice, which mean they have the means to do it.

OR better, the steal ability could always be available, and the items you steal get queued in F2, F3, F4 slots, ready for you to use, or not.

You wouldn’t be forced to use them because you want to use your step from your steal.

It would also solve that other issue and make our core mechanic much better.

There are many ideas for Last Refuge;

When your health reaches a certain threshold (25%)…

1. - … you gain regen (x sec) and all damage is reduced by 90% for y seconds.
2. - …you gain Swiftness and Resistance for x seconds.
3. - …you gain regen (x sec) and drop Caltrops.
4. - …you gain regen (x sec) and 75% to Evade attacks for y seconds.
5. - …you gain Shadow Form for x seconds. You cannot attack. All damage are negated.
6. - …etc.

No stealth, no bullkitten.

Ghost Bear.5280:

Which one of you designers thought this garbage up? Not someone who plays thief, that’s for sure. Bottom line: NOT FUN.

I believe a part of how this issue got in is that the “Revealed” effect didn’t always exist. At least that’s how I remember it. Used to be only duration and attacking were concerns. But I don’t think the trait has been touched even once despite the penalty addition.

Tera GX.8149:

Ghost Bear.5280:

Which one of you designers thought this garbage up? Not someone who plays thief, that’s for sure. Bottom line: NOT FUN.

I believe a part of how this issue got in is that the “Revealed” effect didn’t always exist. At least that’s how I remember it. Used to be only duration and attacking were concerns. But I don’t think the trait has been touched even once despite the penalty addition.

Yeah. Except, pretty sure we’ve been crying about it ever since. O wells.

I don’t know. I really rarely die because of that trait, and it’s just SOOOO good with vamp runes. I’m invulnerable AND stealthed when I get bursted.

Yup! Revealed didn’t exist at all in beta and early launch when Last Refuge already did. Whether you like this trait or not it doesn’t change the fact that it is literally broken. Revealed does not work with it’s original design and they constantly clash and self destruct. People have been begging for it to be fixed since then and they literally flat out ignore it. I was disappointed that they totally ignored addressing it in stream during the uproar in chat. They said nothing- at all: massive troll moment.

I was thinking of a small buff to Last Refuge that would be added on at the end:

For one second (or two, in case one proves to change nothing) using skills will not break stealth.

Thoughts?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

There are many ideas for Last Refuge;

When your health reaches a certain threshold (25%)…

1. - … you gain regen (x sec) and all damage is reduced by 90% for y seconds.
2. - …you gain Swiftness and Resistance for x seconds.
3. - …you gain regen (x sec) and drop Caltrops.
4. - …you gain regen (x sec) and 75% to Evade attacks for y seconds.
5. - …you gain Shadow Form for x seconds. You cannot attack. All damage are negated.
6. - …etc.

No stealth, no bullkitten.

yes on shadow form and make it a 90 sec cd

We could just make the whole thief forum page1 be about last refuge. Worked with turret engineers and the pvp forum!