Guild Wars 2

jonG.8369:

Now after reading these changes and wondering what the heck just happened to nearly all of the traits that made Pistol even remotely viable, (A trait, that only a few weeks ago, was apparently deemed good enough for a Grandmaster slot!) I can’t even bring myself to log in to my Thief.

I’ve got the opposite idea. I’m hoping to get a few long play sessions as a P/P thief before this patch hits.

As we haven’t heard anything, I figure I had better enjoy it while I can.

Regarding the grandmaster trait thing, yeah I remember thinking that was odd as pistols could really use some help. Moving that trait up to conflict with other helpful ones was tough to swallow. Of course, this is even worse.

p/p is always fun for me to use. not having ricochet is a huge nerf. cmon anet let us know the fate of this trait!

i love p/p theif and ricochet is very important to it. why would it be removed? it was far more fun than all of these fairly boring new traits added as well. p/p already had many weak points, this now seems like they just don’t want p/p to be an option.

Agreed. It’s no longer an option as far as I’m concerned. The very nature of dynamic events pretty much requires you to bring weapons that have reliable aoe damage in order to compete. P/P as single target? No thanks. You can’t always rely on utility skill aoe, but Ricochet got the job done and did it quite well. I loved pulling off mass interrupts and was looking forward to using that to apply torment when it was announced. Even started building a Sinister set for exactly that purpose.

jonG.8369:

Agreed. It’s no longer an option as far as I’m concerned. The very nature of dynamic events pretty much requires you to bring weapons that have reliable aoe damage in order to compete. P/P as single target? No thanks. You can’t always rely on utility skill aoe, but Ricochet got the job done and did it quite well. I loved pulling off mass interrupts and was looking forward to using that to apply torment when it was announced. Even started building a Sinister set for exactly that purpose.

yup, and tbh, the other weapons dont really fill that slot. the short bow is pretty lackluster tbh just as a whole which is another problem itself. the melee weapons are of course going to be aoe just by nature but not to the level of ricochet with pistols which will always hit a large area for a very different playstyle than daggers or swords

Ricochet probably got movednto the new trate line that we know nothing about yet. One more reason to believe the new weapon will be a rifle and that the new trait line will be about ranged dps (pistols, short bow and rifle)

it was too RNG with aoe immob potential anyway. Should have internal cd or something

jonG.8369:

I pretty much main a gunslinger build. I crafted 2 different sets of Ascended pistols, 1 for looks, 1 for stats and also spent several months saving up gold to purchase the Aetherized pistols back when they were somewhat affordable. Needless to say, I have lots of time and money invested into the character. Not to mention, a small person guild that is themed entirely around gunslingers and an old western theme.

Dude, that sounds really cool. I’d like to see some of your characters and how you dressed them to fit a wild west theme. I’ve got a few western/steampunk adventurers myself.

Also, I share your plight. I’ve mained a gunslinger thief from the very beginning, and these nerfs are just plain uncalled for. The real salt on the wound for me is that I didn’t even realize that the 10% pistol damage trait was cut too. P/P will basically be worthless come the 23rd.

It’s looking like a gunslinger elite spec is our only hope at this point, my friends…

What’s weird is the complete dev silence on the topic. They straight up killed the P/P thief in silence.

jonG.8369:

Agreed. It’s no longer an option as far as I’m concerned. The very nature of dynamic events pretty much requires you to bring weapons that have reliable aoe damage in order to compete. P/P as single target?

I’m gonna go super cereal on you guys for a second here:

Not only that^ but also compounded by the fact that if you think about it, usually when one goes for dual pistols, it’s exactly because they have multiple targets.

Odyssey.2613:

jonG.8369:

Agreed. It’s no longer an option as far as I’m concerned. The very nature of dynamic events pretty much requires you to bring weapons that have reliable aoe damage in order to compete. P/P as single target?

I’m gonna go super cereal on you guys for a second here:

Not only that^ but also compounded by the fact that if you think about it, usually when one goes for dual pistols, it’s exactly because they have multiple targets.

Very much agree with jonG here. And Odyssey makes a good point in that dual pistols feel like a multi-target weapon in and of itself.

Black Frog.9274:

What’s weird is the complete dev silence on the topic. They straight up killed the P/P thief in silence.

I’m guessing this is why a lot of players—myself included—are theorizing and hoping that their silence is due to the fact that we are indeed getting a gunslinger elite specialization where these traits and more lie and they can’t say anything about the topic as it would spoil the reveal.

Whatever the case, I hope everyone makes the most out of their precious P/P builds today, as tomorrow marks the tragic end to our beloved gun-wielders.

My asura gunslinger is sad.

Black Frog.9274:

What’s weird is the complete dev silence on the topic. They straight up killed the P/P thief in silence.

This. ^

They obviously don’t care about this weapon set at all, but with all these other professions getting weapon range increases built in, I believe this is the only weapon that is getting a range loss.

Of course, a range loss is nothing compared to the bounce and the 10% damage modifier loss, but it all stinks.

It is almost as if the devs didn’t even realize that p/p was an option.

One more totally against this change… This way p/p is dead in PvE at least…

Warriors lost most of their Dual-Weilding benefits……..i would bet they getting something like “Duelist” as new spec on HoT.

Thief will get a Rifle and suddenly loses pistol most important skill?

Bet the new Thief Spec will be something with Core Rifle / P/P weapons. Like a “Bandit” or something similar.

well one weapon option should be viable without the specialization don’t you think???

Ok it’s official, P/P is good to garbage.
http://www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports/v/6464322 at 10min20, He said:
“Ricochet” is gone, and even “Ankle Shot” is nerfed. Pistol range is stuck at 900 now.

Good Job Anet, remove a weapon efficiency… I can’t wait for the next thief nerf update.

Here’s your dev answer.

Man. Thief could have at least kept the range boost. I’m irked … closest thing to proper Bullet Hell, and they nerf it down.

I am in shock. What did p/p ever do to deserve this?

Auesis.7301:

Here’s your dev answer.

Thanks for sharing this. A real shame someone from Anet couldn’t just state this on the forums to one of the many posts about it.

That statement from Jon about “reduced the purity of pistol” is nonsense.

Ekhetrima.9651:

Auesis.7301:

Here’s your dev answer.

Thanks for sharing this. A real shame someone from Anet couldn’t just state this on the forums to one of the many posts about it.

That statement from Jon about “reduced the purity of pistol” is nonsense.

This is the most depressing thing I’ve ever seen from the Guild Wars dev team. I’ve never dreaded an update patch until this one.

“Reduced the purity of pistol”??? Really? Are they insane? Do they even realize how useless they just made dual pistols?

Please let Ricochet, Pistol Mastery, and more firearms related traits be part of the thief’s elite specialization! Otherwise, I simply cannot believe how an entire development team thought this would be a good change.

Seabreeze.8437:

This is the most depressing thing I’ve ever seen from the Guild Wars dev team. I’ve never dreaded an update patch until this one.

“Reduced the purity of pistol”??? Really? Are they insane? Do they even realize how useless they just made dual pistols?

Please let Ricochet, Pistol Mastery, and more firearms related traits be part of the thief’s elite specialization! Otherwise, I simply cannot believe how an entire development team thought this would be a good change.

I don’t want them to add traits benefiting pistol into the elite specialization for us with the expansion. That would mean taking a weapon set available to us with our original purchase of the base game and making it only viable through a pay wall, which no other class has been forced to deal with (at least not yet).

I think they should do what they did with other classes, for example changing the new streamlined kits trait for engis, and just listen to the P/P thieves in our community and give them at least something.

I don’t even play P/P I think it’s ridiculous that you thieves who do are just kind of being forgotten and left behind.

I am not too sure why Mesmer got a boost to pistol range to 1200 along with an extra bounce on projectiles .

I am not sure why 50 percent boost to all conditions inflicted by a pistol is an adept trait for an engineer and a GM trait for the thief adds 33 percent duration to poison only along with that 10 percent increased damage.

I am not sure why Poison dart volley , which can land 5 stacks of poison got increased to 4 seconds (meaning 5 stacks for 6 seconds with trait mentioned) even as Choking gas hads its poison duration cut.

No I do not think the designers are “out to get” a certain class or “hate or favor” one class over another. I just think, at least from appearances there was a lot of design that was done in in isolation with not enough oversite of the “big picture”.

There are going to be all kinds of balance issues IMHO and frustration and i think we will be talking about balance issues and design choices for a LONG long time.

Takes away from the purity of pistols? lol

Might as well take away Longbow #2 and #5 since there’s no way those are “pure” and realistic either.

Too hard to balance around? I don’t buy it.

They can’t be speaking on the damage aspect. It was never op. Even in full zerk. Was it too good at tagging enemies perhaps? The devs are aware of Guardian Staff #1 is a thing, correct?

Give me a break…

I can’t understand this decision.

Dual Pistol is the most underused weapons set for thieves.

Why ? because it is weak compared to the others weapons set.
No stealth, no escape, no shadow step, very low synergy.
The auto-attack has a low rate of fire, low dps (even the bow is upper).
You put bleeding, but it doesn’t matter because you play Direct Damage with P/P.

So why we play with them ?
Because this is the only alternative for AOE damage after the bow (with ricochet) and the most important thing … the FUN !

How much of us spent humongous time and gold to reach Aetherized weapons skin to look like six shots, to make a western cowboy playstyle !!
Or how much to craft a legendary pistol, maybe two before duplicate skin update.

Why no communication about this deletion ?

Rumor says you could put it into Elite Specialization… with the incoming rifle.

I hope it is not the truth… Because remove original content from the core game, to put into a DLC who costs the same price that the core game and force buy… this is a disgrace.

And what about Ankle Shots ?? Seriously, now the 10% damage modifier with pistol only trigger on target who suffers a cripple… is this a joke ?

Well direct damage from pistol is completly gone…

And in the same time, you put this new trait “Pressure Striking” → Ennemies you interrupt are inflicted with 3 stacks of torment for 5 sec" WITHOUT CD….
It’s just a nonsense.
If I remember correct, Superior Rune of Perplexity did the same thing on interrupt with Confusion, with no CD… and get nerfed (deservedly) with a internal CD of 15 sec.

So what, Unload is OP, but spam “Head Shot” to stack torment is ok ??

Seriously Anet, stop balancing the game with an axe.

By the way, big thanks to Auesis.7301 for posting the Dev response here and sharing it with us. Sounds to me like the skill won’t even be considered for the Elite spec.

IMHO, all the removed traits for pistol on thief happened because of HoT.
the weapon thief are getting as elite spec is prob a Rifle and all “projectile” traits, affecting both pistol or rifle are going to be in that elite spec trait line.

Walker.3056:

IMHO, all the removed traits for pistol on thief happened because of HoT.
the weapon thief are getting as elite spec is prob a Rifle and all “projectile” traits, affecting both pistol or rifle are going to be in that elite spec trait line.

They won’t put pistol traits in that line because it’s part of the “core” group. If someone wants to play with core stuff, their traits shouldn’t be locked behind non-core specializations.

Furthermore, I believe thief will get axe or mace, not rifle.

godz raiden.2631:

I don’t even play P/P I think it’s ridiculous that you thieves who do are just kind of being forgotten and left behind.

Well, p/p thieves have always been forgotten and left behind, so it’s just business as normal. They’ll just all be extra sad now because they’ll be having less fun overall.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Walker.3056:

IMHO, all the removed traits for pistol on thief happened because of HoT.
the weapon thief are getting as elite spec is prob a Rifle and all “projectile” traits, affecting both pistol or rifle are going to be in that elite spec trait line.

They won’t put pistol traits in that line because it’s part of the “core” group. If someone wants to play with core stuff, their traits shouldn’t be locked behind non-core specializations.

Furthermore, I believe thief will get axe or mace, not rifle.

godz raiden.2631:

I don’t even play P/P I think it’s ridiculous that you thieves who do are just kind of being forgotten and left behind.

Well, p/p thieves have always been forgotten and left behind, so it’s just business as normal. They’ll just all be extra sad now because they’ll be having less fun overall.

What i said is that they elite spec line would go around the rifle and could affect pistol aswell since its similar not needed.

I hope you are right,i really dont want rifle as elite weapon…

For those that are saying they don’t want pistol support as an elite spec, would you rather not have it at all? Because honestly, I think there’s a better chance of Anet including it as part of a gunslinger elite spec than having them simply say, “Oops, our bad. Those super important pistol traits are baseline now. Thanks for your feedback.” I could be wrong, but that’s just my thoughts on the matter.

And also, for those that say they don’t want to use a rifle, who says you have to? Elite specializations allow you to use an exclusive weapon, but it doesn’t force you to (though I’ll admit depending on the traits that could be debatable). I currently run a P/P + S/P thief, and if I make that build work using the elite spec, then you can bet I’ll be all over it.

Whatever the case, I just want my traits back, really. They are way to vital to just drop them like that. It’s seriously make-or-break situation for P/P thieves.

Another stupid change. Please stop nerfing entire play styles because it doesn’t fit some ridiculous theme that you conjured up in your mind.

Well I just do not understand the logic of its removal. They increased the Mesmer Pistol range to 1200 from 900 and added an extra bounce to trait 5 as baseline.Indeed a number of classes saw their own ranged weapon get a longer range. I really do not know what was so wrong with the 1050 range with bounces.

I think a lot of these decisions happen in a vacuum where there no real consistency when one takes a step back.

Now I do not think this because “they got it in for thieves” or “They favor engineers”. I think it because they really do not look at the big picture to make sure justifications remain consistent.

Ricochet did nothing over and above what other classes can do with their own traits. It did not make P/P OP and few used P/P. It was just a lot of fun.

babazhook.6805:

Well I just do not understand the logic of its removal. They increased the Mesmer Pistol range to 1200 from 900 and added an extra bounce to trait 5 as baseline.Indeed a number of classes saw their own ranged weapon get a longer range. I really do not know what was so wrong with the 1050 range with bounces.

I think a lot of these decisions happen in a vacuum where there no real consistency when one takes a step back.

Now I do not think this because “they got it in for thieves” or “They favor engineers”. I think it because they really do not look at the big picture to make sure justifications remain consistent.

Ricochet did nothing over and above what other classes can do with their own traits. It did not make P/P OP and few used P/P. It was just a lot of fun.

They did the same thing with ranger traps and they are just destroying necro’s on so many levels. They are taking weak specs and making them weaker to try and fit an idea of what they should be according to some made up lore.

So many of these changes feel like they completely disregarded balance and instead went with “wouldn’t it be cool if it did this”

ricochet was a mix of too hard to balance, too much RNG, and reduced purity of pistol

So frustrating. What the hell is “reduced purity of pistol” even supposed to mean? I don’t think I could come up with a more meaningless garbled excuse if I tried. This is the kind of thing that makes me question whether the developer in charge of this change has ever even played the build.

“Oh hey it turns out that thing you’ve been enjoying for years wasn’t quite what I personally had in mind, so let me just completely kill the class for you. There, now isn’t that so much more ‘pure’?”

I am hoping that this is their way of addressing the Ricochet situation (with a really bad excuse) because thieves will be getting a gunslinger-esque specialization and they can’t reveal it yet.

DarkOcean.8746:

I am hoping that this is their way of addressing the Ricochet situation (with a really bad excuse) because thieves will be getting a gunslinger-esque specialization and they can’t reveal it yet.

I hope so, too. This would save the class for me. Otherwise I doubt I’ll play it anymore.

I just don’t understand the “Too much rng, too hard to balance” excuse when there are so many similar traits spread across all the classes that have “bounces on hit.”

I also seem to remember a balance patch that came out within the last 6-8 months that, according to the devs, corrected an issue with Ricochet’s bounces to bring it more in line with what was needed out of the weapon set’s performance. I don’t seem to recall any issues being brought up by the players or the devs after that patch went live…It certainly didn’t make P/P overpowered by any means and IMO, did have a positive affect on the weapon set. I certainly don’t recall seeing any top PvP teams including a P/P Ricochet thief in ANY major events.

It’s also odd that this trait was being considered for a GM slot only 3-4 weeks ago, but in that time span someone all of a sudden thought it contradicted the “purity” of the weapon set. (No clue what that even means, or even why a similar argument isn’t being made to any other weapon set that other classes use! When’s the last time you smashed a Hammer on the ground and it created a magical ring on the ground that damaged your friends? Give me a break…That kind of logic doesn’t hold up. Not in a game based around fantasy and magic.

Now we are left with a weapon set that has zero AoE. Low damage modifiers, very situational skills, and badly FAILS to compete in every aspect of the game. Especially dynamic PvE events where tagging mobs is essential!

Ricochet and Feline Grace, 2 of my most important traits gone. Add them back please Anet.

Yeah, the excuses they gave are ridiculous. “Too much RNG” isn’t even accurate, I felt it was very consistent over long term use. Especially given that Unload fires so many rounds, the randomness of the ricochet evens out over time. And that’s hardly a reason to remove it entirely. It hurt nothing in PVP, and was fun as hell in PVE.

I’m not exaggerating for emphasis in any way when I say Ricochet was the only thing that made me look forward to logging in and running around the game in recent days. The fact that they can so callously remove it with such baffling, nonsensical reasons given is just completely mystifying to me.

Stormclaw.5031:

Yeah, the excuses they gave are ridiculous. “Too much RNG” isn’t even accurate, I felt it was very consistent over long term use. Especially given that Unload fires so many rounds, the randomness of the ricochet evens out over time. And that’s hardly a reason to remove it entirely. It hurt nothing in PVP, and was fun as hell in PVE.

I’m not exaggerating for emphasis in any way when I say Ricochet was the only thing that made me look forward to logging in and running around the game in recent days. The fact that they can so callously remove it with such baffling, nonsensical reasons given is just completely mystifying to me.

^THIS EXACTLY.

Anet please put it back, it’s not even a trait that broke the game like AT ALL. It was just FUN to have. I don’t recall anyone raging against that trait in particular when talking about thieves.

So please just put.it.back.

wow anet, thanks for nerfing a weapon set that surely needed a nerf /sarcasm

Tabootrinket.2631:

Stormclaw.5031:

Yeah, the excuses they gave are ridiculous. “Too much RNG” isn’t even accurate, I felt it was very consistent over long term use. Especially given that Unload fires so many rounds, the randomness of the ricochet evens out over time. And that’s hardly a reason to remove it entirely. It hurt nothing in PVP, and was fun as hell in PVE.

I’m not exaggerating for emphasis in any way when I say Ricochet was the only thing that made me look forward to logging in and running around the game in recent days. The fact that they can so callously remove it with such baffling, nonsensical reasons given is just completely mystifying to me.

^THIS EXACTLY.

Anet please put it back, it’s not even a trait that broke the game like AT ALL. It was just FUN to have. I don’t recall anyone raging against that trait in particular when talking about thieves.

So please just put.it.back.

agree

I would like to say something, something important.

Playing a thief is the most easiest thing in the game. You just press heartseeker mindlessly, until everyone else dies, and then they give you a trophy and the key of the city. Is it like that? Hell no.

Playing a thief is hard. It does not give you much. There are meta builds of course, as D/P, or D/D suicidal thief. But when you really like a concept, like pistols and being a gunslinger, you try to be “more” than any of your fellow thieves with meta builds. Why? because it is already hard to play with that bloody P/P build. Richochet was the only thing that helped us to survive.

So you say that the nature of the pistols are not in harmony with the richochet? Ok, i agree. Bullets do not bounce that much. But bullets “pierce”. If ANET really thinks that the “reality” of the weapon is important ( apart from a kitten ed engineer summoning a turret from his rear, or a ranger throwing a kitten greatsword, or even the Mesmer shooting phantasms from her gun) then give something back! The new traitline that is introduced is already boring enough. Just like bloody WoW. There were already too few pistol thieves. But with the latest patch, I guess thieves will be “one shot or die” only.

Before finishing my kitten long post, I would like to remind you all something. Especially to those who claim that thieves are meant to be “melee only”; " Robin Hood was a bloody THIEF.

Seabreeze.8437:

Black Frog.9274:

What’s weird is the complete dev silence on the topic. They straight up killed the P/P thief in silence.

I’m guessing this is why a lot of players—myself included—are theorizing and hoping that their silence is due to the fact that we are indeed getting a gunslinger elite specialization where these traits and more lie and they can’t say anything about the topic as it would spoil the reveal.

Whatever the case, I hope everyone makes the most out of their precious P/P builds today, as tomorrow marks the tragic end to our beloved gun-wielders.

My asura gunslinger is sad.

I had the same thought; we can only hope. Gunslinger was my boyfriend’s favourite build in the entire game, and he’s pretty upset.

At least with ALL the pistol traits removed, you gunslinger types have a chance. I doubt I’ll get my healing bombs back. :’(

The loss of Ricochet is hurting so much. The idea that they might fix pistols in HoT is small comfort at the moment. We will only have to wait who knows how many months till the expansion launches and pay $50 to use a ranged thief equal to or better to the one we could play last week and it has not even been confirmed Sniper/Gunslinger spec is what we are getting. (Though it really seems that way. Lets hope!)

I really hope pistol main hand thieves don’t have to wait months to have their build fixed.

alain.1659:

Before finishing my kitten long post, I would like to remind you all something. Especially to those who claim that thieves are meant to be “melee only”; " Robin Hood was a bloody THIEF.

Best part of the whole thread! You, Sir, deserve a medal.

Saint Jabberwocky.5098:

it has not even been confirmed Sniper/Gunslinger spec is what we are getting. (Though it really seems that way. Lets hope!)

It looks like Thief gets a staff and not a rifle.

Orcinus Orca.8627:

Saint Jabberwocky.5098:

it has not even been confirmed Sniper/Gunslinger spec is what we are getting. (Though it really seems that way. Lets hope!)

It looks like Thief gets a staff and not a rifle.

http://i.imgur.com/xA8qvVk.png
I see the image you where talking about. Monk spec could be cool but if that is true then ranged thief is not is a good place.

Saint Jabberwocky.5098:

Orcinus Orca.8627:

Saint Jabberwocky.5098:

it has not even been confirmed Sniper/Gunslinger spec is what we are getting. (Though it really seems that way. Lets hope!)

It looks like Thief gets a staff and not a rifle.

http://i.imgur.com/xA8qvVk.png
I see the image you where talking about. Monk spec could be cool but if that is true then ranged thief is not is a good place.

Yeah, exactly my thoughts (even though I like the idea of a melee staff wielder). Hopefully they’ll change the balance of our beloved pistols in an upcoming patch.

No Ricochet. That was the only reason I played thief, and thief was by far my favorite class to play.

The constant pointless changes and nerfs to things that made the game fun are at the tipping point for me. I feel like these changes are a result of aNet staff justifying their existence, nothing more. Like “hey I don’t want to look like I have nothing to do, let me suggest a bunch of changes then I’ll have something to do.”

After three years…I think I’m ready to take a break. A long one. And HoT will be a “no” for me.

alain.1659:

Before finishing my kitten long post, I would like to remind you all something. Especially to those who claim that thieves are meant to be “melee only”; " Robin Hood was a bloody THIEF.

Robin Hood was using a bow. :/