Guild Wars 2

alain.1659:

Before finishing my kitten long post, I would like to remind you all something. Especially to those who claim that thieves are meant to be “melee only”; " Robin Hood was a bloody THIEF.

Robin Hood was using a bow. :/

I spent a lot of time to find a class and build that will satisfy all my needs..Bloody hell, I do not want to play GW at all without Ricochet!

I miss my ricochet. My dual ascended pistol attacks are so boring now.

There are those of us who are rather casual players and played thief solely for the joy that was firing off the number 3 skill. We were fine with being less desirable in Dungeon groups…
fine with killing mobs one at a time while playing outdoor zones…
fine in WvW with being the least effective roaming thief spec…
fine in WvW with being handicapped with single target dps in a zerg…

If the desire is to not have thieves play it at all… then just give the dual pistol and # 3 skill to any other class. Ranger, Elementalist, Warrior. Don’t care, just don’t understand beating into the ground one of the most underutilized skills by a class in this game.

Would love to see any metric they can provide showing a thief playing dual pistol having an advantage in any facet of the game. Seriously, would love to see it so I could at least believe their was some thinking behind this beyond what feels like “there just wasn’t room for more skills and we think dual pistols were a mistake to give thief in the first place”.

bakuretso.7125:

I spent a lot of time to find a class and build that will satisfy all my needs..Bloody hell, I do not want to play GW at all without Ricochet!

Agreed. I really enjoy the P/P thief build. Without it, I am not interested in playing. No HoT for me and my family—-4 accounts—-good job Anet(sarcasm).

THERE IS NO LOGIC TO THIS. Anet made a giant mistake.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

alain.1659:

Before finishing my kitten long post, I would like to remind you all something. Especially to those who claim that thieves are meant to be “melee only”; " Robin Hood was a bloody THIEF.

Robin Hood was using a bow. :/

Funny thing. We don’t even have a single trait that buffs our shortbow. Not a range increase, damage increase, or anything. It’s really sad honestly.

MrQuillen.3014:

There are those of us who are rather casual players and played thief solely for the joy that was firing off the number 3 skill. We were fine with being less desirable in Dungeon groups…
fine with killing mobs one at a time while playing outdoor zones…
fine in WvW with being the least effective roaming thief spec…
fine in WvW with being handicapped with single target dps in a zerg…

If the desire is to not have thieves play it at all… then just give the dual pistol and # 3 skill to any other class. Ranger, Elementalist, Warrior. Don’t care, just don’t understand beating into the ground one of the most underutilized skills by a class in this game.

Would love to see any metric they can provide showing a thief playing dual pistol having an advantage in any facet of the game. Seriously, would love to see it so I could at least believe their was some thinking behind this beyond what feels like “there just wasn’t room for more skills and we think dual pistols were a mistake to give thief in the first place”.

Yep, well said. SWTOR is offensively bad (i tried it out today) but I guess I’m going to be putting a little more time into it.

Hummm… what happened now ?
I’m quite sure yesterday my pistol range was longer than it is now. It’s back to 900 baseline with no means to raise it.
Seriously ?!!!! What’s next, having all of our bullets bouncing back to our heads ?!

I think Robin Hood would use a bloody gun if he had the chance. But if you want to focus on that aspect then give me a short bow buff. Build diversity is way worse than before.

I think for the first time I’m thinking about switching main.
Having nerfs here and there has never stopped me from playing my thief, but simply erasing the core mechanism of my gameplay breaks the class to me.

Anet has basically erased pistols from thieves and well, in this game in particular, it’s not a stretch to say that the class choice is heavily influenced by the weapons.

Welp, looking at my alts roster, I guess it’s time for me to learn how to mesmer

It is not about only richochet. Acrobatics got nerfed quite hard too. So only viable option for thief’s is to become zerker-suicidal-burst or die thief. Which is extremely boring, and easy to play.

Well this is sad to see… P/P was the only fun weapon set to play with on thief.

Well, there’s no reason for me to play this game anymore…

this like suxx and such

Leveled my toon just for the pistol fun, ohh cmon arenanet

Right o.. what on earth happened to it? I mean, P/P has always been snickered at anyhow, but ricochet at least gave us a little something to our gunslingers. It turned unload into a wonderful aoe skill.

I especially loved it with head shot and groups of mobs that would try to do nasty skills. Seeing all the interrupts would make me happy inside.

So what gives? This is a huge omission. I’ve always made weird builds, so I am a little meh at the new ‘options’ in this system that restrict my creative weirdness, but no ricochet is just sad. Why would anyone even use p/p in present condition, I mean seriously aside from gunslinger roleplay?

Now entering day 2 of my not logging in to the game, seeing as how the build I most enjoyed playing was removed for no remotely acceptable reason. This isn’t a boycott or anything, more like a.. lone anti-vigil. I’ll just be off quietly burning a candle NOT in game until the devs realize what a colossally nonsensical, frustrating, aggravating blunder this was and restore what they destroyed in their poorly-conceived wisdom to “purify” a class they didn’t take the time to fully investigate or understand.

At first I thought it was a troll, then I realized they really did remove it. Pretty much cut my dps in half, if not more. Really do not understand this change. Please PLEASE Anet revert this or if you have other plans for it and are bringing it back, just say SOMETHING and let us know it is being reworked or being used later down the road. I could live with that.

Funny how bouncing bullets seems to be considered “Un-Thiefish,” but:

1. Bouncing arrows are OK?
2. Aren’t Thieves “tricky” fighters, anyway? Seems logical they’d be able to do trick-shots, eh?
3. Why is it, that the “interesting” or “fun” setups are the main ones to eat a nerf-batting?
4. And, mobility/speed as an excuse to limit Thief range options flew straight out the bleeding window the very moment speed signets/traits were equalised across the board. I could see being stuck with 900-1050 range back when Thief was both insanely mobile, and the fastest S.O.B. on two legs. But now? /shakes head

At this point, one begins to feel like a squishier Warrior, or something. Or is this just me?

I’m pretty disappointed by this too. So much so, that I actually haven’t played my main character yet (thief). I logged in, confirmed it was all gone, looked at my build options and switched to my alts.

It is such a shame that not one of the devs could make a comment on the forums about this. The only comment I’ve seen was posted earlier in this thread via a Twitch screenshot. Karl McLain’s very helpful “It’s not there” and Jon Peter’s remarks about “reducing purity” and “too much RNG” were pathetic. There is so much RNG in the combat system and they start cleaning it up by destroying thief pistols?

I really hate this new trait system. Less choices for everyone packaged in a pretty but more confusing interface. Thanks Anet! The more I think about it, the less I want to play my thief again.

If Anet just doesn’t want the pistols to be used, then just remove them from the thief weapons please. Otherwise make them good. Same goes for warrior rifle.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who loved the dual pistol thief build. It really is a crying shame what Anet did to this weapon set. I sincerely hope they review this thread—and others like it—and work to not only bring these vital traits back, but also make dual pistols a stronger build overall.

Unless of course, these traits are already planned for the elite spec, but now I’m not so sure given the recent uncovering of the background art for a thief trait line that strongly suggests they are getting a staff.

Don’t get me wrong, melee staff for thief sounds really cool (on a side note, I hope they have a cool pole-vault jump move similar to engi’s rifle blast jump), but I don’t know if our beloved pistol traits would be found there. Though… I suppose it could be done, depending on the theme of the specialization (like if it’s a highly acrobatic, flashy, show-off style, then I could see ricocheting bullets being a part of it).

I hope they reveal the thief elite soon, but I’m more eager to get our dual pistol traits back!

I played P/P thief since 3 months after GW2 launch. I played it through all its iterations. I played it in WvW, even when it was patently ridiculous to do so (and one guy even told me to kill myself :P [kitten him]). I stopped playing about 4 or 5 months ago. I had a vague hope that something might change with HoT. That hope is dead. Pistols for condition damage? How uninspiring. How non-pistol-y.

I can’t imagine returning to the game now. Not that I give it a lot of thought. Who wants to spend more button mashing time grinding meaningless achievements? At least with my pistols I had some small amount of cackling, maniacal (though ultimately pointless in WvW) fun. They should just nut the kitten up and kill the set altogether, rather than try to limp things along.

Would love to see a dev response on why the decision to remove this trait even came up. You’d think after the dozens of posts with multiple pages on some, they would’ve said screw it, the community is right, lets put it back. At least refund the people that bought a 2nd ascended/legendary pistol.

It sucks, Ricochet was honestly my main reason for playing thief. I hope they add it as a base line (already tested it, I saw no ricocheting) or re-add it as a trait because if not Pistol/Pistol thieves are ruined.

I mainly played a p/d bleed thief so.. My build is pretty much gone, I entirely relied on ricochet for my build. I have no idea what to do now. Just.. why? So many builds relied on that one trait. I had it on both of my thieves.

Edit: Thanks for also wiping out speedy kits on my engie and jacking up my necro.

I’m just here to add another voice to the mob, being another p/p thief that has been laughed at for using a less-than-optimal build, but still found this double pistol the most fun and rewarding play style both in pve and in that little wvw i did.
When I first saw the new trait system I was even glad to see some intresting changes, but then I noticed “where are the pistol traits? Am I missing something?”…
Nope, pistol damage gone, ricochet gone.
Why would anyone use pistols anymore? I dunno. Are they gonna put it back with HoT? I dunno, and if they do I’m not sure if it’s gonna be worth to spend money just to return to the status quo. Right now I don’t feel like playing my thief because it feels ruined.
Before anyone says that it’s just one way to play the thief, and just one class out of 8/9, I know that but it was my way (no Sinatra quote intended).
Now, to find a proper use for my ascended pistols, I’m sure they’d make a great paperweight…

I’d like to add that this problem ISN’T just about p/p builds.
It also concern d/p and p/d builds (never really sword so can’t talk for them).

Weirdly enough, I used to be heavily reliant on shadow shot traited with ricochet to port bounce between foes in a mob pack.
Why ? Mostly because it was FUN. Secondly, because it was another way to attack multiple foes at the same time.
It’s really confusing to use at first but feels very rewarding when you get used to being ported randomly and finally manage to always situate yourself right after a port.

I wouldn’t like it if anet just simply adds ricochet property to number 3 p/p. It needs to be back as a trait.

Also pistol increased range should be baseline, otherwise there’s litterally zero reason to choose it over shortbow. (then again, i wouldn’t mind just having ricochet trait back as it was with the bounce on critical AND the range)

Just adding my voice to this thread…

With ricochet gone, P/P isn’t a viable build, anymore. I’ve tried running P/P in PvE for the last couple of days, now, and it is totally meh.

But here’s the true bottomline – P/P was fun. Now, it sucks.

I have no idea why this was thought to be a good thing to do. P/P might not have been the best thief build, but for a lot of people it was a fun* build.

Fun is why we play this game, right?

Tabootrinket.2631:

Also pistol increased range should be baseline, otherwise there’s litterally zero reason to choose it over shortbow. (then again, i wouldn’t mind just having ricochet trait back as it was with the bounce on critical AND the range)

It’s not in the trait tooltip, but I think Ankle Shots is actually increasing pistol range to 1050 (showing up in the pistol skill tooltips too). Would need to test to be sure; at work now.

Placebo Effect.4508:

It’s not in the trait tooltip, but I think Ankle Shots is actually increasing pistol range to 1050 (showing up in the pistol skill tooltips too). Would need to test to be sure; at work now.

True !!! Just tested and yes, my 1050 of range come back, for Shadow Shot it’s 1200.
You are my little sunshine of these days

Now just want Ricochet back and I can pew pew pew again

Thanks for testing/confirming, John! Nice to know about Shadow Shot, too, I wasn’t aware of that

This reminds me of the time when they messed with Reveal and made the whole class feel clunky. As a result, the number of thieves playing plummeted to a record low.

Now they messed with Ricochet, a skill that was quintessential to P/P and P/D builds. After seeing the number of P/P and P/D thieves dwindle into nothing, they might finally realize once again that they have made a terrible mistake.

The most annoying part is that these mistakes would be avoidable if the Devs were familiar with thief game play.

See, anet’s idea of balance is this: Ricochet? too op, has to go. 8k burning damage per tick and stacking quickness? Totes cool and not op at all.

Ankle Shots does increase pistol range to 1050! It’s back!

Placebo Effect.4508:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Also pistol increased range should be baseline, otherwise there’s litterally zero reason to choose it over shortbow. (then again, i wouldn’t mind just having ricochet trait back as it was with the bounce on critical AND the range)

It’s not in the trait tooltip, but I think Ankle Shots is actually increasing pistol range to 1050 (showing up in the pistol skill tooltips too). Would need to test to be sure; at work now.

It’s true, but having to use this trait and its traitline JUST to have a longer range which is the only advantage of pistol over other weapon set right now is wrong.

Right now pistol has no aoe, so why using p/p instead of shortbow ? The answer should be : the range.
Either you choose the range, or the aoe when it comes to baseline. That’s how the decision should be made.

THEN should come the traits.
And we should have our ricochet back.

Then again, range baseline is my own view of things (as a hardcore pistol user). Haven’t seen the situation with the eyes of a shortbow user.

I don’t care if it’s trait or not, but if range should be a trait it should go with ricochet as it was meant to be.

Tabootrinket.2631:

It’s true, but having to use this trait and its traitline JUST to have a longer range which is the only advantage of pistol over other weapon set right now is wrong.

Right now pistol has no aoe, so why using p/p instead of shortbow ? The answer should be : the range.
Either you choose the range, or the aoe when it comes to baseline. That’s how the decision should be made.

THEN should come the traits.
And we should have our ricochet back.

Then again, range baseline is my own view of things (as a hardcore pistol user). Haven’t seen the situation with the eyes of a shortbow user.

I don’t care if it’s trait or not, but if range should be a trait it should go with ricochet as it was meant to be.

Agreed. I think the range increase should be baseline. Otherwise, it should stay with Ricochet. PvE players really need the aoe that comes from that trait.

A few people are saying that dual pistols are fine in PvP, and that’s all well and good, but why did it have to be rendered near useless in PvE? I mean, we don’t even have a choice in the matter anymore whether to spec for Ricochet or not.

I really don’t wanna have to switch my trick-shot gunslinger asura to a…… shortbow… slinger… thing… whatever….. just to be effective in PvE.

The thing that annoys me the most is the complete silence of Anet on this serious issue! What the hell,at the very least tell us something! Tell us that this was a mistake on your part,or that you did remove it with a purpose in mind for something special,don’t annoy and anger so many of your players? Do something,for God’s sake!
Oh.and off-topic,Feline Grace trait is complete rubbish now!

I can only hope that if we all complain loud enough Anet will listen and return riccochet, or at least give us a worthy compensation for it.

Ausfer.1853:

I can only hope that if we all complain loud enough Anet will listen and return riccochet, or at least give us a worthy compensation for it.

Actually that’s the reason I always try to find something to say in that topic.
Even though I might have already said, at least twice, everything I had in mind in that subject lol.

Kea.6380:

Ankle Shots does increase pistol range to 1050! It’s back!

To equip an entire skill line that is not in synergy with the way that I play my thief, just to get a 150 range increase is ridiculous. We need ricochet and range increase back in the trickery line.

No point playing thief anymore daggers meh every mmo has dagger wielding boring rogue and daggers are boring as hell

The reason I made Quip was for P/P confetti hilarity using unload, but really though, without ricochet P/P is unusable in PvE.

Quite sad…I finally logged onto my dual wielding gunslinger today, ported into SW to do some events. A group of us were defending Indigo fort from the inside. The doors were breached and in comes a group of Modrem. The Rangers standing next me immediately open up with Longbow Barrage AoE’s followed by Rapid Fire arrows that PIERCE deep into the oncoming enemies. And there I was, the lowly P/P thief, attacking a SINGLE target. By the time it was focused down, and I went to tag another enemy in the Zerg, the rangers pretty much had them taken care of.

Same thing at Vinewrath. Single target P/P just doesn’t get the job done. It was rather embarrassing tbh.

Devs, Please reconsider the changes you’ve made here. Either by making our projectiles pierce (like so many other classes have access to or bring back the bounce. Baseline or throw it into Trickery where it used to be.

jonG.8369:

Quite sad…I finally logged onto my dual wielding gunslinger today, ported into SW to do some events. A group of us were defending Indigo fort from the inside. The doors were breached and in comes a group of Modrem. The Rangers standing next me immediately open up with Longbow Barrage AoE’s followed by Rapid Fire arrows that PIERCE deep into the oncoming enemies. And there I was, the lowly P/P thief, attacking a SINGLE target. By the time it was focused down, and I went to tag another enemy in the Zerg, the rangers pretty much had them taken care of.

Same thing at Vinewrath. Single target P/P just doesn’t get the job done. It was rather embarrassing tbh.

Devs, Please reconsider the changes you’ve made here. Either by making our projectiles pierce (like so many other classes have access to or bring back the bounce. Baseline or throw it into Trickery where it used to be.

I feel your pain, my friend. I did the same exact thing on the day of the patch just to see how bad it was, and let me just say… it was bad. No more bullets bouncing from mordrem to mordrem, no more group interrupts to menders, no more aoe killing, and definitely less survivability since you get far less health back from SoM and IP given that dual pistols are now a single-target-only weapon. Needless to say, I felt pretty useless tapping a single enemy while everyone else was splashing down the DPS on whole groups. If I wanna be effective, I have to swap to my sword/pistol and get way up close, which in Silverwastes isn’t a very good idea for a thief.

This was a really, really horrible—even game breaking—change. I’ve said it half a million times already, but I hope beyond hope that Anet sees what a mistake it was to remove this trait and brings dual pistols back into the light of Tyria, starting with the return of Ricochet.

This is currently the highest viewed topic on the front page of this forum and by a good margin too.

5855 and rising.

The first time I write in this forum.

RETURN RICOCHET!!!!

P/P thief It was only playable in PvE. Now nowhere. Why was it necessary to simplify this stupid? For many clones??? Yeah! Its FUN! 1-2 build on class.
You delete regen initiative for crit. Delete Ricochet. Next delete pistols pls!

p.s. sundering strikes, practiced tolerance, ankle shots one master branch? srsly? why??? Bring back the old system PLEASE!

You gave candy. Taken her. Returned wrapper…

Holy kitten! They removed Feline Grace as well, on top of bullet bounce? Coupled with shifting damage and range increase to another trait line. they completely mutilated build diversity/viability for any main hand pistol build…

Jon and Karl’s methodology appears to be avoid first hand experience, rely on second hand hearsay, buff already popular options, and nerf under performing options. But above all, quash fun when ever it is found.

This reminds me of Dragonhunter. It’s juvenile and not creative. They proceed to tell us it actually is creative because it’s a “high concept” and if only we understood high concepts. I explained to my friend the Dev’s explanation why ricochet was removed and he said: “Huh? What does purity of pistols even mean? Don’t they realize bullets can ricochet?”

Purity of Pistols. Another High Concept term for an answer when they don’t actually have an answer.