[Roaming] What 1v1 matchups can you win?
I WvW, so I’ll post about that. My main is P/D condition/venom/stealth focused.
Elementalist: Most fights I can win unless the person is running a sustain build with lots of condition clear. Most people run a lighter build to do more damage so I can win these fights regularly. Always a good target, but in group fights can be problematic with mist form allowing more time for the team to res them.
Necromancer: Most fights I can win, a few necromancers run dangerous condi transfer builds that can pose a problem, but mostly they lack the mobility to catch me, especially in reaper form. Good ranged damage can shut them down. Harder with shroud to break, but a good target in group fights because other players aren’t worried about the necro’s HP going low because of shroud.
Mesmers: Good mesmers are hard but if the mesmer isn’t using high stealth uptime it quickly becomes a game of burst and stealth. The mesmer goes down pretty fast. Mesmers are annoying if they can get their balance and start attacking, so in group fights mesmers are high priority to take down.
Engineers: Good engineers have sustain but the stolen skill interacts with finishers really well. The main thing with scrappers is just waiting out the defensive abilities and then bursting. Using boonsteal in generally makes engineers easier to kill and control.
Rangers: I’ve been matched once by a greatsword ranger and a staff druid. Both had strong sustain, powerful damage, and good mobility. I find that rangers and druids that stand still to do their damage, because they “can,” tend to die easily. Using the stolen skill to gain regeneration and heals helps to negate their damage by quite a bit. Rangers pets are also gold for offhand dagger use because the pet won’t move much so it is easy to CnD off that to regain stealth for another attack.
Thief: I find most thieves run insane condi clear. They are easy kills if they don’t. With teleport and enough condi clears getting a kill can be a challenge. Most will run Escapist’s Absolution, which means timing a burst and then not attacking is key to decreasing their HP. Having an enemy NPC, like a sentry nearby is helpful to maintain the advantage by being in stealth more than them. “Winning” against a thief often means forcing it to retreat so you can take the objective.
Warrior: Hit the warrior enough to force them to use their immunities. Also evade their adrenal abilities, both because of the damage and because they will probably heal from it. Basically, burst and retreat, burst and retreat. If you never get locked down you can win. That said, you can tell a good warrior from a bad one pretty quickly. A good warrior will maintain pressure and will catch you with his/her abilities. A bad warrior will let you hit and run until death.
Guardians: hit and run until their passives/blocks are gone. Then melt them. Guardians have such small HP that medium constant pressure will win. Even bunkers should melt to a combination of boonsteal and careful pressure. Also, some well timed interrupts from stolen skill are powerful tools to shutting them down.
Revenants: die. They have a few powerful heals and some chasing ability, but boonspam is the most common type. They are built for group support and quickly die against focused 1v1 fire. It is also more rare for me to encounter good rev players. I’ve seen maybe one who had built for solo roaming and was amazing. Most others I see are running in groups so their build is not designed, perhaps, for solo roaming.
Warrior: Hit the warrior enough to force them to use their immunities. Also evade their adrenal abilities, both because of the damage and because they will probably heal from it. Basically, burst and retreat, burst and retreat. If you never get locked down you can win. That said, you can tell a good warrior from a bad one pretty quickly. A good warrior will maintain pressure and will catch you with his/her abilities. A bad warrior will let you hit and run until death.
Revenants: die. They have a few powerful heals and some chasing ability, but boonspam is the most common type. They are built for group support and quickly die against focused 1v1 fire. It is also more rare for me to encounter good rev players. I’ve seen maybe one who had built for solo roaming and was amazing. Most others I see are running in groups so their build is not designed, perhaps, for solo roaming.
Thanks for the write up, that was awesome! I never play condi but it was still really interesting to read.
I’d be curious to hear a bit more on what you have found really separates good Warriors/Revs from great ones in 1v1s.
For Wars it does seem like just successfully landing their kitten is a big differentiator. Anything else?
For Rev, they all seem so cookie-cutter and rotation-based. It surprises me you found one that stood out. Do you know what his build was / how he used it in a different way?
I’m trying to pick up a new class, but after playing Thief everything else feels so pre-determined and like they lack a notable skill-ceiling/room for interesting tactics. I personally am very focused on tactically interesting classes as strategy (builds/pre-fight stuff) is not that engaging for me.
In general a bunker build or class is going to require a player to be aggressive. Aggressive doesn’t mean that the player ignores defense. Rather, it means that the player has to deal consistent pressure. Lots of sustain builds have some temporary heal/block/super tank ability that only triggers once every so often. If you apply pressure when that isn’t up the player often has fewer options. This is when you will see the warrior dodge for instance.
Warriors who are good are constantly attacking. They are usually very natural in how they use their mobility skills during combat along with stuns to lock you down for a burst. Headbutt is a good example of this kind of mobility/stun/burst. They understand that when a thief goes into stealth they are not actually gone. Lots of warriors use weapon swapping as part of their rotation so they just keep swapping and attacking while predicting where they need to move to strike at the thief.
I find that warriors, even good ones, die to my build because they can’t reach me. P/D 3 is a backwards teleport that is perfect for kiting. Add in some dodges from daredevil and stealth and warriors have a hard time reaching me. Warriors don’t, in general, excel at ranged damage.
I can’t say, having never played Rev before what they did or didn’t do. They certainly weren’t running this build. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRApX5unvNeNS6JvJRVlHlsrykSYW5SJYssrklTlxe92rXdjOKJNgEeA-T1RTABF+AAM8EAMr+BA2f4IlgXo8jL1fAA-w There are power variations I could think up fairly easily, but this seemed to synergize well with a resistance granting build. It isn’t as “nice” of a build for groups, but solo roaming is about keeping yourself alive first so…
However, I spend a decent amount of time just roaming for 1v1s anyway. What matchups do you find you can consistently win (at least 40-50% of the time)?
I am going to assume we are talking decent or better players here since many of us can park less than stellar players running any class/build. Prior to the Plex nerf, no class could consistently beat the cancer I was running. The build was stupid good with a little bit of practice.
Post Plex nerf, I struggle with Boon Duration Warriors, Condi Chrono, Bunker Tempests, power trap DH and some Bunker Druid Builds. Everything else is pretty much meat. Even on the classes I struggle against those typically come up a draw. The cancer is still strong but beatable now.
Even after the Plex nerf, I am still running well over a 100/1 KDR roaming. That rate has more to do with strong cancer and a lower quality of players these days than my skill. Seems most of the great players left the building a while ago.
I know 1v1 is not our role. We’re the most mobile, slipperiest class with insane burst. Our job is to scout, create unfair fights, and secure kills.
The class no longer has insane burst. My FA Tempest hits much harder as does my power Chrono. My Boon Duration Warrior can also one shot most thieves with Eviscerate if a fight lasts long enough for it to wind up the might (all with little fear of a thief actually cutting through the armor).
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
I WvW, so I’ll post about that. My main is P/D condition/venom/stealth focused.
Elementalist: Most fights I can win unless the person is running a sustain build with lots of condition clear. Most people run a lighter build to do more damage so I can win these fights regularly. Always a good target, but in group fights can be problematic with mist form allowing more time for the team to res them.
Necromancer: Most fights I can win, a few necromancers run dangerous condi transfer builds that can pose a problem, but mostly they lack the mobility to catch me, especially in reaper form. Good ranged damage can shut them down. Harder with shroud to break, but a good target in group fights because other players aren’t worried about the necro’s HP going low because of shroud.
Mesmers: Good mesmers are hard but if the mesmer isn’t using high stealth uptime it quickly becomes a game of burst and stealth. The mesmer goes down pretty fast. Mesmers are annoying if they can get their balance and start attacking, so in group fights mesmers are high priority to take down.
Engineers: Good engineers have sustain but the stolen skill interacts with finishers really well. The main thing with scrappers is just waiting out the defensive abilities and then bursting. Using boonsteal in generally makes engineers easier to kill and control.
Rangers: I’ve been matched once by a greatsword ranger and a staff druid. Both had strong sustain, powerful damage, and good mobility. I find that rangers and druids that stand still to do their damage, because they “can,” tend to die easily. Using the stolen skill to gain regeneration and heals helps to negate their damage by quite a bit. Rangers pets are also gold for offhand dagger use because the pet won’t move much so it is easy to CnD off that to regain stealth for another attack.
Thief: I find most thieves run insane condi clear. They are easy kills if they don’t. With teleport and enough condi clears getting a kill can be a challenge. Most will run Escapist’s Absolution, which means timing a burst and then not attacking is key to decreasing their HP. Having an enemy NPC, like a sentry nearby is helpful to maintain the advantage by being in stealth more than them. “Winning” against a thief often means forcing it to retreat so you can take the objective.
Warrior: Hit the warrior enough to force them to use their immunities. Also evade their adrenal abilities, both because of the damage and because they will probably heal from it. Basically, burst and retreat, burst and retreat. If you never get locked down you can win. That said, you can tell a good warrior from a bad one pretty quickly. A good warrior will maintain pressure and will catch you with his/her abilities. A bad warrior will let you hit and run until death.
Guardians: hit and run until their passives/blocks are gone. Then melt them. Guardians have such small HP that medium constant pressure will win. Even bunkers should melt to a combination of boonsteal and careful pressure. Also, some well timed interrupts from stolen skill are powerful tools to shutting them down.
Revenants: die. They have a few powerful heals and some chasing ability, but boonspam is the most common type. They are built for group support and quickly die against focused 1v1 fire. It is also more rare for me to encounter good rev players. I’ve seen maybe one who had built for solo roaming and was amazing. Most others I see are running in groups so their build is not designed, perhaps, for solo roaming.
I feel like necros got a lot more dangerous after their last buff… not sure why but I always encounter some that only need to hit me once and my hp will go down on it’s own over time if I only use condi clear on evades. They weren’t this nasty before…
I main standard d/p thief (DA, Tr, Drd) with dash and would consider me as a main wvw roamer where i look for 1v1s.
What I win against consistently due to them being too slow or too predictable to controle the fight:
Warriors
Nekros
*Eles
Revs
Classes that highly depend on player skill:
Mesmers (mostly I win against mesmer but I know that a skilled and tanky enough Mesmer power or condi shouldn’t have problems with thieves)
ranger (good staff/LB ranger is unkillable, still many rangers run squishy builds which are easy to handle)
engineer (a good build makes them unkillable ending in a draw, squishier builds are good to kill)
counter:
Trapper LB DH (only cheesy bound p/p build can kill them reliably)
All in all i feel like i can kill anything, if they are too tanky i am always fast enough to disengage and move on.
100% Thief
Interesting!
How do you deal with mediocre condi Mesmers? I find that by the time I’ve blown through their defensive CDs I’ve got way too many condis on me to keep going. I’m typically evading their shatters, but everything they do stacks up the condis.
When Warriors pop resistance (condi immunity, including blind) off their Berserker stance and heal, do you just kite it out and re-engage after? (~12s off Berserker stance, ~24s on boonduration war.)
Last night my warrior buddy and I started dueling for the first time. After initially getting hoe-wrecked, I found I could reliably beat him, but only by completely disengaging when he had Resistance up. Would be curious for your strategy, as it seems impractical in WvW to kite off for that long.
(edited by Blaqatak.1395)
@Blaqatak
When I see a roaming condi mesmer I quickly swap traits from DA to SA, select the condi clear and both regen in stealth traits and select blinding powder and shadow refuge utilities. Then proceed to give them the kitten beating they deserve, their condis are useless vs SA and traited Withdraw.
For added effect, use the Llama finisher on them. Then enjoy the smell of two strong cheese vapours hanging in the air around you.
La Fantoma – Aurora Glade
(edited by godmoney.6025)
I feel like necros got a lot more dangerous after their last buff… not sure why but I always encounter some that only need to hit me once and my hp will go down on it’s own over time if I only use condi clear on evades. They weren’t this nasty before…
What buff are you talking about?
against condi mesmers i run around in stealth and wait for a good ambush and disengage again, also using the stolen item for condi resistance which is really strong.
they normally burn trough a lot of defensive utilities after one bigger burst attack so patience and good use of stolen item is gold.
against warriors i also kite when they have berserker resistance up. i engage with shadowshots and make just a few hits before disengaging again (depending on warriors playstyle) also black powder + warriors stolen item is really strong.
100% Thief
I feel like necros got a lot more dangerous after their last buff… not sure why but I always encounter some that only need to hit me once and my hp will go down on it’s own over time if I only use condi clear on evades. They weren’t this nasty before…
What buff are you talking about?
I guess I meant this stuff:
Necromancer
Necromancers are receiving mostly quality-of-life changes in this update. Our goal was mainly to improve baseline abilities and improve signature abilities for main-hand weapons and Death Shroud, along with the spectral utility type. Rise has seen significant changes, as we’ve observed that the damage reduction from the minions is too strong in many scenarios.
Life Siphon: The channel time of this skill has been reduced from 3.75 seconds to 2.75 seconds.
Ghastly Claws: The channel time of this skill has been reduced from 2.25 seconds to 1.75 seconds.
Wicked Spiral: This skill will now fire the correct number of whirl finishers.
Mark of Horror: Fixed a bug in which this skill would go on full cooldown if it was interrupted.
Spectral Grasp: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
Spectral Walk: Reduced the cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.
Spectral Armor: Reduced the cooldown from 50 seconds to 40 seconds. The trait version is unchanged. Removed an erroneous skill description.
Flesh Golem—Charge: Increased the stability stacks from 1 to 3. Usage of this skill now clears immobilize from the golem as well.
Spinal Shivers: This skill casts approximately 0.25 seconds faster than before.
Life Blast: The higher damage value of this skill is now dealt at all ranges rather than at close range only.
Blood Is Power: Bleeding stacks have been increased from 2 to 4. Bleeding duration has been reduced from 30 to 15. Might stacks have been increased from 8 to 10, with the duration increased from 8 seconds to 10 seconds.
“Rise!”: Reduced the damage reduction from 50% to 33%. Decreased the health of shambling horrors by 25%. Minions now have 20% reduced toughness.
Signet of Undeath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 180 seconds to 150 seconds.
Unholy Sanctuary: Fixed a bug in which this trait would go on cooldown even if the player’s life-force levels were too low to enter Death Shroud.
Spiteful Spirit: The version of Unholy Feast that this trait executes will now include the player’s weapon damage.
form https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-26-2016-1/first#post6270415
It should be noted I run Hide in Shadows, so I have extra condition removal that way. If I really needed to I could add in the condition removal in stealth but I don’t need to use that as much with the plex nerf.
I feel like necros got a lot more dangerous after their last buff… not sure why but I always encounter some that only need to hit me once and my hp will go down on it’s own over time if I only use condi clear on evades. They weren’t this nasty before…
What buff are you talking about?
I guess I meant this stuff:
Necromancer
Necromancers are receiving mostly quality-of-life changes in this update. Our goal was mainly to improve baseline abilities and improve signature abilities for main-hand weapons and Death Shroud, along with the spectral utility type. Rise has seen significant changes, as we’ve observed that the damage reduction from the minions is too strong in many scenarios.
Life Siphon: The channel time of this skill has been reduced from 3.75 seconds to 2.75 seconds.
Ghastly Claws: The channel time of this skill has been reduced from 2.25 seconds to 1.75 seconds.
Wicked Spiral: This skill will now fire the correct number of whirl finishers.
Mark of Horror: Fixed a bug in which this skill would go on full cooldown if it was interrupted.
Spectral Grasp: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
Spectral Walk: Reduced the cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.
Spectral Armor: Reduced the cooldown from 50 seconds to 40 seconds. The trait version is unchanged. Removed an erroneous skill description.
Flesh Golem—Charge: Increased the stability stacks from 1 to 3. Usage of this skill now clears immobilize from the golem as well.
Spinal Shivers: This skill casts approximately 0.25 seconds faster than before.
Life Blast: The higher damage value of this skill is now dealt at all ranges rather than at close range only.
Blood Is Power: Bleeding stacks have been increased from 2 to 4. Bleeding duration has been reduced from 30 to 15. Might stacks have been increased from 8 to 10, with the duration increased from 8 seconds to 10 seconds.
“Rise!”: Reduced the damage reduction from 50% to 33%. Decreased the health of shambling horrors by 25%. Minions now have 20% reduced toughness.
Signet of Undeath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 180 seconds to 150 seconds.
Unholy Sanctuary: Fixed a bug in which this trait would go on cooldown even if the player’s life-force levels were too low to enter Death Shroud.
Spiteful Spirit: The version of Unholy Feast that this trait executes will now include the player’s weapon damage.form https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-26-2016-1/first#post6270415
I know there were changes in last patch. What I was asking is which one of these would buffed necro so much against thief?
The only buffs worth mentioning is some cd reduction for spectral skills. Also, there was a significant nerf on “Rise”.
I feel like necros got a lot more dangerous after their last buff… not sure why but I always encounter some that only need to hit me once and my hp will go down on it’s own over time if I only use condi clear on evades. They weren’t this nasty before…
What buff are you talking about?
I guess I meant this stuff:
Necromancer
Necromancers are receiving mostly quality-of-life changes in this update. Our goal was mainly to improve baseline abilities and improve signature abilities for main-hand weapons and Death Shroud, along with the spectral utility type. Rise has seen significant changes, as we’ve observed that the damage reduction from the minions is too strong in many scenarios.
Life Siphon: The channel time of this skill has been reduced from 3.75 seconds to 2.75 seconds.
Ghastly Claws: The channel time of this skill has been reduced from 2.25 seconds to 1.75 seconds.
Wicked Spiral: This skill will now fire the correct number of whirl finishers.
Mark of Horror: Fixed a bug in which this skill would go on full cooldown if it was interrupted.
Spectral Grasp: Reduced the cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
Spectral Walk: Reduced the cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.
Spectral Armor: Reduced the cooldown from 50 seconds to 40 seconds. The trait version is unchanged. Removed an erroneous skill description.
Flesh Golem—Charge: Increased the stability stacks from 1 to 3. Usage of this skill now clears immobilize from the golem as well.
Spinal Shivers: This skill casts approximately 0.25 seconds faster than before.
Life Blast: The higher damage value of this skill is now dealt at all ranges rather than at close range only.
Blood Is Power: Bleeding stacks have been increased from 2 to 4. Bleeding duration has been reduced from 30 to 15. Might stacks have been increased from 8 to 10, with the duration increased from 8 seconds to 10 seconds.
“Rise!”: Reduced the damage reduction from 50% to 33%. Decreased the health of shambling horrors by 25%. Minions now have 20% reduced toughness.
Signet of Undeath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 180 seconds to 150 seconds.
Unholy Sanctuary: Fixed a bug in which this trait would go on cooldown even if the player’s life-force levels were too low to enter Death Shroud.
Spiteful Spirit: The version of Unholy Feast that this trait executes will now include the player’s weapon damage.form https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-26-2016-1/first#post6270415
I know there were changes in last patch. What I was asking is which one of these would buffed necro so much against thief?
The only buffs worth mentioning is some cd reduction for spectral skills. Also, there was a significant nerf on “Rise”.
Not really sure myself… didn’t get the time to slowly get through them and analyse their impact on the class… i just feel like they have more control over me then before and also their dots are more annoying somehow… like they hit harder.
My condi Thief, can win all mash ups except agianst Engineer. In a match on point i cannot win agianst a DH, because Traps OP right now. (they are instant cast, you can cast your three utility traps at same time with no delay. and can be cast (all three) while stomping)
Necros have some solid condi-bomb in 1v1 situations now. I used to barrel in and kite them to death but with that 1200 range I have to watch my condi levels very carefully.
Traps OP right now. (they are instant cast, you can cast your three utility traps at same time with no delay. and can be cast (all three) while stomping)
They also pre-cast them so that they can be instantly cast again. S/P wrecks DH with relative ease but I find most other weapon sets under perform against solid DH players.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
I learned something new about Necromancer today. They have a pet that builds in a teleport/stunbreak on demand. Makes for a much more interesting fight.
Anything but power DH and tanky condi mesmer/chrono is fair game for me on an equal and/or comparable skill level.
Condi mesmers I can deal with if I play with cleanse ln Evade (or like godmoney said, swap ping Da to SA’s a similar sort of option). Power DH is beatable if there’s enough objects or height difference to LoS with.
Ofcourse, with anything it’s possible to simply disengage… But I never run from a fight, it’s simply not my nature :p
In fact… The better I’ve become on/as thief, the more stupid /risky things I do, lol.
[PUSH] Constant Pressure
When I see a roaming condi mesmer I quickly swap traits … Then proceed to give them the kitten beating they deserve
Unfortunately, this is one of the things I think would truly help the Thief in PvP.
Assuming that the Thief is meant to have the active and adaptive playstyle (improvisation, anyone?), being able to switch “fighting styles” on the fly would allow much more versatility. It may not improve any certain aspect of the Thief, but it would allow it to better match up against the threat at hand instead of being locked into one build/style that is completely countered by one of its opponents.
Think of the Jedi Knight games. Being able to switch from heavy style to light to mid. All with the same saber, but giving so much versatility and ability to adapt to any situation.
Just imagine if the Thief had its own version of attunements. With the ability to go from power-oriented to condition-oriented or from aggressive to evasive to stealthy with a press of a button.
The difference between Thief “attunements” and those of the Elementalist is that the Thief’s would be used on an as-needed basis, where the Ele goes through rotations to maximize their potential.
Yes, I know… but dreams are dreams :-P
I mostly run into troubles against good warriors that can keep the pressure up. All others, including the annoying mesmers are manageable, as long as I play it like a prowler. Enough patience and burst timing works wonders.
Those that have troubles with mesmers, switching to withdraw with trickster should be enough to keep clear of their condis.